Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 5, Episode 9: Stories We Leave Behind - Preserving a Life Through the Lens with James Howard

Transcript

Season 5, Episode 9: Stories We Leave Behind - Preserving a Life Through the Lens with James Howard · The Starfish Storytellers

0:00
Welcome to the starfish storytellers the podcast
0:03
that makes a difference one story at a time by
0:05
bringing storytelling to life my story is how
0:11
did that family history studio come to be and
0:14
It actually started back in 1997 and it's basically
0:20
a confluence of Two biography films that I did
0:25
in my own family and kovat But again, I started
0:30
back in 1997 when my grandmother turned 91 years
0:34
old and a very good friend of mine said to me,
0:37
have you thought about documenting your story?
0:40
You've just finished your first documentary,
0:42
you've got some time and who knows how much longer
0:47
she's going to be around. and so he really really
0:49
pushed me said you've got the camera you've got
0:52
microphones you've got lights and you're good
0:54
at interviewing people why aren't you doing that
0:56
so i convinced my grandmother to do it it took
0:59
some convincing because she was very um she's
1:03
not she was not used to being videotaped even
1:06
in family get -togethers and whatnot. She was
1:09
a little like this and not comfortable with it.
1:12
Anyway, long story short, I did convince her
1:14
to do it and I interviewed her for about four
1:17
and a half hours, five hours on video, over two
1:21
days, one day at the cottage, our family cottage
1:24
and another at her senior home in Toronto. And
1:27
so that was something that turned out to be a
1:31
very, very exciting experience because, again,
1:33
four and a half hours later, she was still talking.
1:36
And that was very exciting. Two weeks after that
1:40
interview, she had a fall that would prove to
1:43
be fatal. In other words, I almost was too late.
1:47
I was very, very fortunate to just, you know,
1:50
to get her while she was still physically well.
1:52
She was always mentally well. She had all her
1:56
marbles, so to speak. And then after she passed
1:59
away, I was away in China for several years.
2:02
And I kind of sat on the footage. I was a little
2:04
overwhelmed on what to do with it. And then about
2:07
10 years after she died, I just said, OK, I finally
2:10
got to tackle this. And I sat down and I found
2:13
lots of old 8 -millimeter home movie footage
2:15
that my grandfather had taken and even my father
2:18
had taken from the 1950s and 60s. I found a whole
2:21
bunch of things, including My grandfather, her
2:24
husband, had passed away when I was two. But
2:28
he worked with Laura Secord. He was the president
2:30
of Laura Secord Candies, which is big in Canada.
2:33
And at that time, he took them out to the Western
2:37
provinces. He expanded the marketplace very much.
2:40
But he died when I was two, so I never got a
2:43
chance to know him. But I found an old audio
2:45
recording of him from a 1959 radio interview.
2:48
So I found all these amazing gems of... media
2:52
and heirlooms and all these visual slides and
2:56
I just decided okay I think I've got a lot of
2:59
material I can actually put into this and turn
3:02
it into a real documentary film and so I worked
3:05
on that and it took about it took several months
3:07
but I put that together and the following year
3:11
I decided, well, my parents had their 50th anniversary,
3:15
wedding anniversary in 2010. And I decided, well,
3:19
I'm going to do a video on my father. I'm also
3:21
going to have my mother interviewed too, even
3:24
though her Alzheimer's was starting to show.
3:26
She was still lucid enough that she could go
3:28
on camera and remember some of the older memories
3:31
of when she met my dad and things like that.
3:34
So I thankfully was able to include her as well
3:36
for about 10, 15 minutes. And then I interviewed
3:40
my father. That took about five hours. And again,
3:44
it was something that he wasn't sure about, but
3:47
he was more excited to try it because he'd seen
3:49
what I'd done with my grandmother's video. Four
3:52
years later, he passed away. And thank goodness
3:54
I was able to show him, you know, the near final
3:57
cut. I had to change the ending because he passed
4:00
away after that draft. And so I... included his
4:05
death as the ending. And so I had these videos
4:07
and then I had my children. And then I was working
4:12
on other video projects, other professional projects.
4:16
And so I just sat on these videos and then COVID
4:20
hit. 2020, I had just finished working with another
4:25
filmmaker and helping him edit a wonderful project
4:29
he had did in Cambodia. And that was finished
4:32
and I was sort of... Sitting there figuring out
4:34
what am I going to what to do? What am I going
4:36
to do next? We all had lots of time at home to
4:39
figure out what to do. My kids at that time were
4:42
four and six respectively. And I just thought
4:46
I started what kept coming to my mind about my
4:49
next steps, my grandmother's biography and my
4:51
father's biographies. And I started thinking,
4:53
I wonder if other families would like the same
4:57
thing, you know, a similar type of videos for
4:59
their families. And I started bouncing the idea
5:03
around with people in my close circle, people
5:05
who I trusted and people whose opinions I valued.
5:08
And I got an overwhelmingly positive response
5:11
that I should try it. And so Family History Studio
5:14
was formed that way. It's a long story, you know.
5:24
Hello, my name is Liana Henry and welcome to
5:27
The Starfish Storytellers. I'm the CEO of the
5:30
Black Dog Group and your host. I'm passionate
5:33
about storytelling and on a mission to raise
5:35
up the next generation of storytellers. We're
5:38
called the starfish storytellers after the moral
5:41
of the starfish story, which centers on the power
5:43
of one. Because no matter how big the challenge,
5:46
every action matters. One step, one starfish,
5:50
and one story at a time. Every episode, we'll
5:53
welcome a new storyteller who will inspire and
5:55
connect with you. So thanks for tuning in. Now
5:58
let's get started. Today's episode is Stories
6:02
We Leave Behind Preserving a Life Through the
6:05
Lens and with me today is James Howard. James
6:08
is a Toronto area videographer and filmmaker
6:11
whose work focuses on capturing authentic personal
6:14
family and professional stories on film. James
6:17
creates life story films that preserve the memories
6:20
and experiences of individuals and families across
6:23
generations as well as shorter professional video
6:26
biographies that help business owners tell the
6:29
human stories behind their work. James has spent
6:32
much of his career thinking about how to get
6:34
beyond the polished answers, the stories we think
6:37
we're supposed to tell, and the versions of ourselves
6:39
we present to the world to get to something real.
6:44
When James and I first spoke, I quickly realized
6:46
that the technology behind the work isn't what
6:49
interests him the most. It's the people. The
6:52
people do. James believes the best stories emerge
6:55
when people become comfortable enough to stop
6:57
performing and simply become themselves. He calls
7:00
it capturing the real you. And along the way
7:04
he's learned that some of the most meaningful
7:05
stories aren't necessarily the ones we planned
7:08
to tell. They're the ones that emerge when we
7:11
create enough trust and space for someone to
7:14
take us somewhere unexpected. So James, welcome
7:17
to the Starfish Storytellers. We're really happy
7:19
you're here. Well, thank you for having me. It's
7:21
great to be here. So we start every episode,
7:24
James, with our guests telling us a little bit
7:27
more about themselves in their own words. So
7:29
before we talk about your work with storytelling,
7:32
I'd love for our listeners to get to know you
7:34
a little bit better. Sure. Well, I started doing
7:37
a videography at university level. I was a little
7:41
bit of a late starter. I took a film elective
7:44
in my undergraduate and I was really captured
7:47
by it. And it wasn't even a film production course.
7:49
It was actually a film theory course. and then
7:51
in our second and third year we got to make our
7:54
own videos, which I really love to do. Actually
7:56
films as well, we were working with 16mm film.
7:59
Mediums you don't hear much about today sadly,
8:02
but fortunately we were able to use those as
8:04
well as sort of early, not very good quality
8:07
VHS recording, but it was something we could
8:10
work with that was easier and started learning
8:13
editing as well. I did some work in the film
8:16
industry as an assistant director and that sort
8:19
of thing and quickly realized I did not enjoy
8:21
that. I actually did not like working on film
8:24
sets, like professional film sets. I started
8:26
thinking... I would like to do my own stories,
8:30
but I was also very interested in traveling,
8:32
so I thought I'd combine the two. I saved money
8:34
and I went off to Taiwan in the mid -1990s, and
8:37
this was after a school year in Indonesia that
8:40
I did in 1992. I know I'm dating myself, I'm
8:43
up there in years now, but still feel very youthful
8:47
and vigour. After school year in Indonesia, I'd
8:50
taken an old video camera that I bought in Hong
8:53
Kong around with me as I traveled and that sort
8:56
of got me the bug of just... documenting experiences,
9:00
especially with people I meet. So my first film
9:03
in Taiwan was a travel production and I did it
9:07
on eight millimeter film. I just was still really
9:09
wanted to work with the film media because I
9:11
know it was dying out. I thought one, I've got
9:13
to do at least one big project on film. So I
9:16
did. And I traveled around Taiwan with an eight
9:18
millimeter camera and I used a separate microphone
9:22
for recording because there was no microphone
9:24
on the camera. Anyway, so it was very old school
9:28
and I spent about nine months in Taiwan and I
9:30
just loved it. I started learning Chinese there.
9:33
I started learning about the history between
9:35
Taiwan and China, which is very complicated.
9:37
So I stayed in Beijing for three years and I
9:40
found another film project I wanted to do. about
9:43
rural women who have no access to education.
9:47
At that time in the late 1990s and 2000, China
9:51
was booming, but it was also leaving hundreds
9:54
of millions of rural women behind. And I met
9:56
a woman who had founded a school just north of
9:59
Beijing that provides practical skills training
10:02
for as many rural women as they could find and
10:05
fund. I was very inspired by that story. So I
10:08
worked on that project for two years. That was
10:10
very exciting. There's a lot of stories in terms
10:13
of the different film projects I've worked on.
10:15
But I guess the essence of all of them, I really
10:18
enjoyed the most was helping people tell their
10:21
stories, especially the disenfranchised originally
10:24
who would not have any other recourse to tell
10:27
their stories. My style has changed over the
10:29
years. First, I did more narration focused documentary
10:35
telling, you know, I would be you'd hear my voice
10:37
very much throughout the project. And then I
10:41
found I actually really enjoyed. I found a style
10:45
where if I speak less and people can talk more,
10:48
I found that far more effective. And I did it
10:51
for the thesis of a master's program I was doing.
10:54
I lived in Guatemala for the summer of 2003 and
10:58
That project was all about getting the local
11:01
villagers to tell their stories and their economic
11:04
hardships and brainstorming ways that they can
11:06
improve the lives of their families and the villagers
11:09
around them. When I edited that all together,
11:12
there was, you didn't hear me at all. It was
11:14
all, it's kind of, you could call it, it was
11:17
just, I didn't even know the term for it, but
11:19
it was just really just letting them speak. And
11:23
that was something that I found actually very
11:26
liberating too. The woman I interviewed was also
11:28
an expert in sustainable economic development
11:31
in developing countries. So I let her also speak
11:34
a lot, as well as the local villagers themselves
11:36
sharing their own stories. And that became a
11:39
project that it was only 25 minutes long, took
11:42
about a year. The final result was something
11:45
I found very satisfying. And so I carried that
11:48
style into the family biographies that I do.
11:52
today. Wow. So that's a bit of me. There's lots
11:57
of other stuff, but that's essentially we will
11:58
get to it, though. We will get to the real you.
12:01
Yes, we will. Thank you for sharing your story,
12:05
the story of your capturing your grandmother's
12:08
story and your dad's story. I teach guided autobiography
12:13
and. I always hear my students who are in their
12:16
late 70s, 80s and 90s say to me, oh, my kids
12:20
are always on me to tell my story, tell my story,
12:22
tell my story. But I don't know how or their
12:25
kids have said, oh, but we need to capture some
12:27
of this history because we'll lose it or we won't
12:29
have it. And yet what you were talking about
12:31
was almost less of the history and it was more
12:34
of the person to really have to keep the person
12:37
with you. I think we have sort of that ability
12:40
now to record. I know that there are some cultures
12:43
out there that are against videography, but I
12:47
think we're lucky that we have that medium to
12:50
be able to capture people as they are in time
12:55
and be able to hear their stories. It's beautiful
12:57
that you were able to do that. Once you had them,
13:03
you said you sat on them for a while and you
13:05
were waiting to do what what do you think was
13:07
holding you back from? Well, the first one with
13:09
my grandmother, it was actually I was working
13:12
on another project at the time in China. I got
13:16
to admit, that's a bit of an excuse. I mean,
13:19
there are some valid excuses, but the overall
13:21
reason was I was a little overwhelmed on how
13:23
to begin it. I had all this. I had a huge long
13:27
interview and I had so much. It was like an embarrassment
13:31
of riches almost. I had so much extra media that
13:34
I could work with, because fortunately they took
13:36
a lot of slide photography when they traveled
13:38
in the 50s and 60s. And as I said before, we
13:42
had lots of eight millimeter films. I had some
13:45
home videos that I'd taken in her older years
13:48
when she was over for Christmas. I did lots of
13:50
that just for our own posterity. And I thought,
13:53
well, we can integrate some of that as well.
13:56
Being overwhelmed, I admit, delayed. my beginning
14:01
to really tackle the post -production. I already
14:03
knew from my previous projects that 85 to 90
14:07
% of filmmaking really is post -production. It's
14:11
the editing. That's where the story comes to
14:13
life. You need to have good footage. You need
14:14
to have really good media to work with. But,
14:18
you know, to edit, editing takes the vast majority
14:21
of that time. And I knew if I was taking that
14:24
on, I'd be committing serious time and that could
14:26
come at the expense of work time. You know, if
14:29
I was doing other things, it took longer than
14:31
three months, but that's what I initially predicted
14:34
it would be. But I'm glad I did it. I'm really
14:37
glad I did it. Yeah. Yeah. And same with my dad.
14:40
I was living in China when I interviewed my father.
14:43
I came home because it was their 50th anniversary
14:45
and I'm not going to miss that. So the big golden
14:48
party was also a great celebration. I filmed
14:51
that. And footage from that also ended up going
14:54
into the biography of my dad. And so two weeks
14:57
after that, after the golden anniversary celebrations,
15:02
I sat down with my dad in his office and just
15:04
started interviewing him. He knew he was ready.
15:06
He was ready to try it. And he's really comfortable
15:10
in his office. He actually felt more comfortable
15:12
in his office. than at home, which was kind of
15:15
revealing. He was a bit of a workaholic, right?
15:18
So I came to him to his office and it really
15:20
worked out well because I got a chance to film
15:23
lots of footage of him at work. And that also
15:26
was able to go into the project. He had lots
15:28
of plaques of like family photos, working awards
15:32
and things like that, things that he was really
15:34
proud of all over his office. So I just filmed
15:36
everything I could. And so what I decided to
15:39
do is I'm going to just edit it on a part -time
15:43
basis when I have time. And as opposed to trying
15:46
to do it all at once, which was too much. Yeah.
15:49
So it took about four years, about a full -time
15:52
year equivalent, spread out over four years.
15:55
And I again, I almost waited too long for that
15:57
because my dad grew very ill not too long after
16:01
that interview. And he was able to last four
16:04
years, but he suffered quite a long time. He
16:07
had a pulmonary disease that ultimately proved
16:09
fatal. Anyway, so at least I was able to finish
16:13
a really solid draft that I could show him maybe
16:16
four months before he died. And that was pretty
16:19
wild. Yeah, I kept looking at him as it was playing
16:22
and his eyes were just like transfixed on the
16:25
screen. He couldn't take his eyes off it. And
16:28
when it was finally finished, he just sort of
16:29
went, Wow, thanks, James. No one's ever done
16:32
anything like that for me before. He was quite
16:35
overwhelmed. Yeah, so that was a pretty, that
16:38
was a special moment. And you still have that.
16:41
That's wonderful. We had met at a networking
16:44
event and then we had a chance to talk ahead
16:47
of the podcast. And I think one of the things
16:49
that I loved about our conversation was that
16:52
we may have different mediums for our storytelling,
16:55
but we share the same philosophy. You work through
16:59
visual and my path has taken me through writing
17:01
and communications. But we've learned that the
17:05
most important job, I think, as a storyteller
17:08
isn't necessarily to tell their story for them.
17:11
It's to listen. Right. It's to listen and it's
17:14
to create that space that's going to, you know,
17:17
help them feel comfortable. I think I want to
17:20
start there. Sure. Listening, that's a very key
17:25
word. And I think it's a very key word, especially
17:29
to someone who's interviewing. And I know you've
17:31
experienced it yourself firsthand. The value
17:34
of listening over the power of speaking. I've
17:38
observed a lot of interviews over the past several
17:41
years and I found that the best interviews are
17:45
conducted by those who are willing to get their
17:48
egos out of the way and really, really listen
17:52
to what the storyteller or the person they're
17:54
interviewing, I don't like the word interviewee,
17:56
I like storyteller, and really listen to what
17:59
the storyteller was saying and give them breathing
18:02
space to say it without interjecting, without
18:05
interrupting. You don't just get the best stories.
18:08
You also get the most authentic stories. And
18:11
you also get a storyteller who's a lot more comfortable
18:14
to say more, to say more about themselves, to
18:18
be themselves. I think it's huge. You've talked
18:22
a lot about the different types of filmmaking
18:24
that you've done over the years. All the places
18:26
that you've been seems like you really, really
18:28
loved. Asia and China and Taiwan. But you now
18:33
are very committed and interested in capturing
18:36
people's personal histories. And even though
18:39
the work that you were doing in Guatemala and
18:42
China was also very personal to your subjects,
18:45
have preserved those stories of your family.
18:48
When we were talking initially and you had told
18:50
me about your father and your grandmother, you
18:52
said you use the word priceless. So as you are
18:56
working with others, Are you feeling like that's
19:00
how other people are feeling when you're done?
19:02
Like that it's priceless to them. And I'm guessing
19:06
that working with your family was a place where
19:09
preserving people's stories began with you. But
19:12
at what point did you realize that what you were
19:14
capturing was something that could become part
19:18
of that family legacy? Right. You mean my family
19:22
legacy or a family legacy? A family legacy in
19:25
general. Yeah. I guess, I mean, it really became
19:29
clear to me when my children were born after
19:33
my dad had passed away and long after my grandmother
19:35
had passed away and they were still very very
19:39
small and I looked at these films and I just
19:42
kept thinking you know when they're older and
19:46
they have questions about well what was your
19:48
dad like what was grandpa like sure I could tell
19:51
them lots of stories ad nauseam like I've got
19:56
tons of stories in my own head. And I was very
19:59
grateful for my grandmother of sharing lots of
20:01
stories about my grandfather who died when I
20:03
was two. I was very grateful that she could share
20:06
those stories. What I really valued was what
20:10
survived in terms of where I could actually see
20:12
my grandfather on eight millimeter video or film,
20:16
home films, and I could hear his voice from that
20:18
radio interview. So those are the things that
20:21
really stuck with me over the years. also being
20:23
thankful for what my grandmother shared with
20:25
me. So when I thought of my two children, as
20:30
they got older, knowing that they have my father's
20:34
story, their grandfather's story, in his own
20:37
words for over two hours, you know, from basically
20:40
cradle to grave, and all the stories in between
20:44
that he could think of, that I could even think
20:47
of getting out of him, they're there. And whenever
20:51
they're ready for it, they're nine and 11 now.
20:54
So they might still find it maybe a little bit
20:57
too much for them to take in maybe a little,
20:59
it'd be hard to sit down for two hours to really
21:02
watch it. I don't think they're quite ready yet,
21:04
but I think they will be fairly soon and when
21:07
they are. My dad's waiting for them. And so that's
21:10
where I feel that's where the word priceless
21:13
comes in, I think, because long after that person
21:16
has passed away, their voice survives, their
21:20
gestures survive, their expressions survive,
21:24
just the different tones of their voices, happy,
21:28
sad, pensive, excited, silly, all the emotions
21:33
on the spectrum survive. And I think That's way
21:38
beyond anything I could share with them through
21:41
my own stories of my father. So that's where,
21:44
to me, the value of these videos is really priceless.
21:48
And I think other families are feeling the same
21:51
now that I've done several videos for families
21:54
already in the relatively short life of Family
21:57
History Studio. But I'm very excited to see how
22:01
much they treasure these videos as well. And
22:04
so I'm going to keep going. Yeah. Well, I think
22:07
you just said it. I mean, what is captured on
22:09
video is the voice, the intonation, the facial
22:14
expressions, the mannerisms, you know, and that's
22:18
huge. I remember having a wedding video and watching
22:23
it and being like, wow, I can't believe I did
22:27
that or like that person did that. And they're
22:29
captured right there. It's in real like real.
22:32
It's as opposed to just a still photo. Yes, I
22:36
value the art of oral storytelling, but being
22:39
able to see it, especially in the era that we
22:41
are today is huge. Absolutely. People say, you
22:45
know, we've got all these photo albums. I don't
22:47
know what to do with them. Yeah, we've got some
22:49
home video that we shot over the years, but it's
22:52
just kind of sitting there. We're not sure what
22:54
to do with it all. And that's sort of an added
22:56
bonus for what I do. I can get the dust off,
23:00
so to speak, these photo albums and get a lot
23:03
of these old photos and put them to work. And
23:08
they can be added visual elements to these videos.
23:10
They become a lot more than just a talking piece,
23:12
which is still wonderful in its own right. But
23:15
the added visuals also enhance the story visually.
23:19
And it has the added bonus of bringing to life
23:22
a lot of things that have been sitting in closets
23:23
for years. Well, and I think what you're saying
23:27
is too, it's one thing for you to sit today.
23:31
and capturing the person today and they tell
23:34
you their past story, but bringing in all of
23:37
the past media just fills in all the gaps and
23:42
it sort of confirms what they're saying because
23:47
there they are where they were. And I'd like
23:50
to add to a lot of the old media that's been
23:52
sitting there for so long, they don't have a
23:54
means to play it on anymore. So I can get it,
23:57
you know, digitized into upgraded contemporary
24:00
formats and put them to work, which is a great
24:03
thing too. That's another way of bringing them
24:04
to life because very often they're like, look,
24:06
I've got a great old VHS tape, you know, taken
24:09
from like 2001 of a family party, but I don't
24:12
have a VCR anymore. Well, hand it over. I'll
24:16
transfer it over into a contemporary medium so
24:19
we can, you can look at it right away and I can
24:22
start editing the best part of it into the film
24:26
I'm working on for your family. So what is your
24:28
studio like? I mean, you must have bits and pieces
24:31
of every type of equipment in there. Yeah, it's
24:34
not quite as sophisticated as you might think.
24:37
For example, like eight millimeter home films.
24:39
Yeah, I have an old projector. I do, but that's
24:43
well and good. But I'm not going to video a projected
24:45
image on a wall. I'm not going to do that. I've
24:48
got good people I know who are in the area who
24:51
are professional, you know, transfer people.
24:54
They can digitize old 8mm and 16mm film. They
24:58
can contemporize, if you will, old reel -to -reel
25:02
audio tapes that were very common in 1960s radio
25:05
studios. that was used to interview my grandfather
25:08
in 1959 on the radio. And so that was all modernized.
25:15
And so I could edit with that. And it just sounded
25:17
like it was recorded yesterday. It was incredible.
25:20
So I love that. Yeah, my dad had those audio
25:24
tape to tape the real like, yeah, it was like
25:27
a big box with the yes to tapes and they would
25:31
run it through and it would yeah right but getting
25:34
to your question about my studio sorry sometimes
25:37
I get a little bit off topic that's okay my studio
25:39
is actually a lot more simple than you might
25:40
think and this is also the great thing of working
25:43
with modern media even when you're modernizing
25:46
and transferring old media uh into contemporary
25:49
formats the great thing about that is it does
25:52
not necessarily have to take up so much space
25:54
And it also doesn't require huge amounts of gear.
25:59
Yes, I have lights that I use for interviews.
26:02
I've got microphones that I use, particularly
26:04
just a nice simple color lavalier mic sounds
26:06
great. I've got all that. But at the same time,
26:10
I don't need a lot of space to edit because really
26:14
what I'm doing primarily is I'm doing post -production
26:16
and I just need to have clean. dry, you know,
26:23
not too hot storage space for my gear when I'm
26:25
not using it. And the rest of my space is basically
26:28
just a desk, a computer. And yeah, just that's
26:33
how I operate. Family History Studio, I've kind
26:36
of joked with many people is more like... family
26:39
history traveling studio because I bring my gear,
26:43
my lighting, my microphones, my cameras to the
26:46
homes of the storyteller or wherever they feel
26:49
most comfortable. Maybe their cottages or in
26:52
the case of my father, maybe they're working
26:53
office. To me, the environment of where they
26:57
are is really important. Yeah. Yeah. So my studio
27:01
at home is actually very small. It's no bigger
27:05
than this room we're in right now. Yeah. Where
27:08
I really, you know, use the canvas, where I paint
27:10
is always in the homes, the cottages or the working
27:14
spaces of the storytellers themselves. That's
27:16
great. Yeah, that's great. We actually are coming.
27:20
We've started doing pop -up and here we are.
27:22
We're at The Hive on Duncan Mill Road in North
27:25
York in Toronto. we're stretching our wings a
27:28
little bit to take our show on the road and you
27:31
know about taking the show on the road. So you
27:36
use the phrase, the real you. And that's great
27:39
because I think every storyteller is ultimately
27:41
looking for that. But people don't always give
27:44
us the real version of themselves immediately.
27:46
And I think this kind of builds on what you're
27:47
just saying about creating that comfortable,
27:50
trusting space. you know, they may edit themselves,
27:53
they may perform, you know, they may become self
27:56
-conscious. You found, and I think you said this
28:00
to me in one of our calls, you found that it
28:01
can take 15 to 20 minutes before somebody stops
28:04
thinking about the interview and starts just
28:08
talking. So as a storyteller, how do you create
28:12
enough trust for someone to let down that guard?
28:14
And I know you talked about coming to them, but
28:17
what is it in the interview process that you're
28:19
able to do that? Right. Coming to them is just
28:21
one aspect of it. And it's an important one,
28:24
but it's just one aspect of it. Basically what
28:27
I do is I make sure in what we call the pre -production
28:31
phase, that is before we get any cameras and
28:34
microphones and lights going, is I get to know
28:37
the person. I sit down with them just one -on
28:40
-one and just start talking with them getting
28:43
to know them and just asking casual questions
28:46
about their lives and so they become a little
28:50
bit more comfortable talking about answering
28:53
these types of questions that they may face on
28:56
camera during that time we're spending together
28:59
then I spend a little bit of time going through
29:01
some of the questions that are already pre -planned
29:05
I should say there's an order of things but by
29:07
the time I meet that person in person we've got
29:12
the set of questions are all ready to go. And
29:15
so we start going through them and I give them
29:17
some advice on how to prepare to be on camera
29:20
because I know most people I speak to have never
29:23
been interviewed on camera before and that's
29:26
completely understandable. And so we just go
29:29
through some of the questions I ask a few and
29:31
then they start answering them to the best of
29:35
their ability. And I can give them some certain
29:39
tips on how to answer better a little bit. And
29:43
we're actually doing the on -camera interview.
29:46
You're going to be looking at me. You're not
29:47
going to be looking at the camera. And therefore
29:50
like over time, I think I'm confident that you're
29:53
actually going to forget the camera is there.
29:55
And basically the focus is between that person
29:58
and myself. And that's, that's a key aspect of
30:01
it right there. And a lot of people are very
30:03
nervous about forgetting details or giving a
30:08
wrong answer. My grandmother said, well, what
30:10
if I give the wrong answers? And, you know, Nana,
30:12
there are no wrong answers. It's your life, right?
30:15
And as the memories come back for you, when they
30:18
come back to you, they're going to they're going
30:21
to come out. Yeah, don't worry about that. And
30:24
I'm here to guide you with, you know, I'm here
30:26
as someone to share these stories with and to
30:31
make it enjoyable. Right. Yeah. And another thing
30:33
I say, another little detail I say is I will
30:37
not be going, uh -huh. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing.
30:41
Oh, great. I will not be doing that. I'm just
30:44
going to be listening. I'm going to be smiling.
30:46
I'm going to be nodding my head like you're doing
30:48
right now, which is great, because you know,
30:50
the value is just just let them speak, give them
30:53
a breathing space to speak. So by the time we're
30:57
ready to film, they know all this and they've
31:00
also gotten to know me a little bit. They know
31:02
I'm not a mean person. They know I'm interested.
31:05
The interest is genuine. Yes, I'm getting paid
31:07
for it. It's my livelihood. But the interest
31:09
is still very genuine. Pre planning the pre production
31:12
phase is so, so vital. I like what you said about,
31:18
yes, it's my livelihood and yes, this is what
31:20
I do, but you're choosing this field. You're
31:24
choosing to be in the room and hear the story.
31:28
Exactly. So the livelihood piece doesn't even
31:32
come into this because you're choosing to listen
31:34
to them. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean again yeah
31:38
that's the perfect point and it's something I
31:40
should have mentioned earlier is that I founded
31:42
Family History Studio because it's just something
31:44
I really enjoyed doing in my own family and I
31:47
would love you know for other families to give
31:49
me the opportunity to do it for their families.
31:51
Very often the client is the child of a loved
31:54
one, someone in their 40s and 50s who are all
31:57
you know they're thinking a lot about their parents
31:59
mortality and wondering what to do. But when
32:04
they find out that I exist and others like me
32:07
exist, I'm not the only one doing this, but there's
32:10
not that many of us doing this, I'll put it that
32:12
way. They're very, very interested to hear more.
32:16
And once they feel they're comfortable with me,
32:19
they realize that I'm coming from the right place.
32:22
That's usually when a project gets going. It
32:24
can take time. I have a technical question for
32:26
you as you're talking. How do you deliver? the
32:30
finished product. Like I know when my husband
32:33
and I got married, our finished product came
32:35
in a link and it was on a site. And that's how
32:38
we got our wedding video. And we can go to that
32:40
link anytime. And we don't have a VHS tape or
32:43
a DVD or anything that could get broken or not.
32:47
We just go to the link and our video is there.
32:49
So how do you deliver? Yeah. Basically twofold
32:53
in a sense. Like I have a physical copy that
32:56
is on a flash drive that we USB -C and regular
33:01
USB. So it's like a dual flash drive and it's
33:04
a custom carved. It has family history studio
33:06
on it and the name of the loved one who are interviewed
33:10
and the year. And it comes in a small box. It's
33:13
also engraved on it, the names of the storyteller
33:17
or storytellers. Sometimes it's a husband and
33:19
wife together, right? And then the year it was
33:22
done. So when people find it, there's already
33:25
strong clue as to what the content will be. But
33:28
I also keep a copy in the cloud that anybody
33:32
in their family or their social circle, they
33:35
can download at their leisure anytime. And I
33:38
keep it up there. I save for a year. And so if
33:41
they're worried about losing the flash drive,
33:44
they don't have to worry. And I've also I always
33:46
keep my projects double backed up on hard drives.
33:50
Um, I don't just keep them in the cloud. I keep
33:52
them, you know, in hard drives backed up, like
33:55
any project I've done in the last 25, 30 years.
33:57
I still have not only the project itself, but
34:00
also the raw files that went into making it.
34:03
Your backup has backup, which has backup, right?
34:06
You have to back things up. And so they don't
34:08
have to fret about losing their project. Good,
34:11
good. So let's talk a little bit about authenticity
34:14
and a little bit about, I know that you do family
34:16
history, but you also have sort of now veering
34:19
into some professional storytelling as well.
34:23
So what's interesting about getting to the part
34:25
of that real person, it doesn't just apply to
34:28
family stories. You've applied it to professional
34:31
storytelling. And you told me a story about interviewing
34:34
a senior financial planner and You didn't hand
34:37
him a script, telling him what to say. You asked
34:40
him why he does the work, the challenges that
34:43
he faces and you know, what's still driving him
34:46
to do this. And as the conversation progressed,
34:50
you saw his confidence grow because he got more
34:52
comfortable. And so by the end, you felt like
34:56
you had really captured the real him. So why
35:00
do you think authenticity is so powerful in storytelling
35:03
and how do you help someone get comfortable enough
35:05
to show their real self? Yeah, especially when
35:08
they're talking about their careers. It can be
35:10
an extra challenge too, because they want to
35:12
present their best side, which I certainly understand.
35:15
I would feel the same way if somebody was interviewing
35:17
me about my career. You know, I don't want to
35:21
talk about the dirt or the failures. I don't
35:23
want to talk about that. And that's fine. People
35:26
don't have to. And so it started actually, someone
35:30
actually came up to me in another networking
35:32
group and said, you know, it's really cool what
35:33
you do. I love that. Would you do something similar
35:36
for professionals? Just curious if you do that.
35:38
And at the time, I didn't. And I thought, what
35:40
a great idea. I just said, you know what? Yeah,
35:43
I do. Because the foundation is going to be the
35:47
same. It's going to be a genuine interview. It's
35:50
going to be one on one with me. And it's also
35:52
going to be in a situation that's comfortable,
35:55
that's fun, that's relaxing, and where they can
35:59
really tell, they can talk about their career
36:02
in a way that's exciting for them, where they
36:05
come from, why they do what they do, the challenges
36:08
faced, the triumphs. They can talk about all
36:10
the different aspects of their career. Then I
36:15
would just put it together in a similar way I
36:17
would a family biography. Sometimes I would take
36:21
extra footage of them doing their work, footage
36:25
of them in action. All right. For the financial
36:29
planner, I've just filmed him in his office.
36:32
Very simple. It's not in rocket science. Him
36:35
on the phone with a client, you know, him thinking
36:38
about how he can help someone because he says
36:40
he spends a lot of time at night. Just, you know,
36:43
I'm struggling to find a solution for this certain
36:45
client and I need some extra time. I'm having
36:47
trouble sleeping. So I took some footage of him
36:50
just looking out the window of his office thinking
36:52
and He had some photographs he could supply to
36:56
me of certain community events that he was really
36:59
proud of that he worked in Mississauga I put
37:02
those in a photograph of him with some trophies
37:06
He'd won over the years as he talks about he's
37:08
proud of his success Because that enables him
37:12
to make other people successful and so I put
37:15
that in there and it turned into something that
37:18
I think was genuinely him and it all started
37:20
with the interview because the interview was
37:22
just one -on -one with him and me. He was a little
37:25
nervous at first and even though he'd already
37:28
sat down with me and again that's very understandable.
37:32
We just sort of kept going. At first it was a
37:34
little guarded and he admitted that and I kind
37:37
of expect that. You know I expect that and I
37:40
just sort of let hey let's just work through
37:42
it let's just keep going. It was just an hour
37:45
long interview and the final product was only
37:48
two minutes, but I thought it really worked out
37:49
well. So I think the foundation of the videos
37:53
that I do for seniors, I use the same foundation
37:56
I do for professionals. And so far I think it's
37:58
working. I think in the age of AI where there
38:01
is a lot of artifice out there, there's generative
38:05
AI, and I'm not saying the whole technology is
38:08
terrible, but I'm saying it's also making it
38:10
a lot easier for... inauthentic, is it inauthentic,
38:15
unauthentic, non authentic stories to come out,
38:19
I still prefer, you know, the tried and true,
38:22
like a good one on one conversation, as the foundation
38:25
of really finding out about somebody. I think
38:28
that's the best way. I haven't found a better
38:29
way yet. Yeah, some points came up for me as
38:33
you were talking. There's a lot of power in the
38:37
origin story. Yeah. And I would imagine founders
38:42
when they're telling their origin story must
38:45
get very excited about that because that's the
38:48
whole reason why they exist when they built their
38:52
careers in their companies. I found it really
38:54
interesting that you said that they struggle
38:59
with talking about the challenges sometimes and
39:03
the failures, but I find it's those moments where
39:07
your true grit shows and it's really in the end
39:11
when you're on the other side of it, those are
39:14
the stories we most love to tell because those
39:16
tend to be the victory stories in the end, right?
39:20
At first they're tricky though. At least that's
39:23
what I found. Not with everybody. At first there
39:25
may be a little bit, I don't know if I want to
39:29
reveal that to other professionals. Because it
39:31
can be a little bit of a leave them a little
39:33
vulnerable to maybe some criticism. Oh, oh, oh,
39:37
you've made that mistake. Oh, you know, but at
39:40
the same time, I agree with you. I'm on the other
39:42
on the flip side. The more they talk about it,
39:45
the more they can really talk about what they've
39:48
learned from it. Exactly. It's made them better.
39:50
Exactly. That's the key. It's kind of like a
39:53
moth story, right? It's sort of that transformational
39:55
point. So it humanizes. Right? Like we're never
40:00
good word. We're not perfect, right? We're going
40:02
to make mistakes and it really humanized. So
40:05
I love that you ask them to talk about that.
40:08
I love that you use the word humanizes. That's
40:10
a great word. Huge. I think. Yeah. Yeah. So I
40:15
want to end where we started, which was the idea
40:18
behind the title of the episode, the stories
40:20
we leave behind. And we spend a lot of our lives,
40:25
document, you know, we document milestones and
40:27
experiences, births, weddings, graduations, vacations.
40:30
We take thousands of photographs, hours of video.
40:33
We have all this technology in our hands now
40:36
that we can do this. But it isn't the same as
40:38
preserving someone's story. And, you know, I
40:42
keep thinking about the films that you have of
40:44
your family and the fact that you still hear
40:46
their voices and you still have pieces of them.
40:50
now. So I want to ask you this as a filmmaker
40:53
and simply as a person who understands what it
40:55
means to have those stories preserved. What stories
40:58
do you think we should be asking the people we
41:01
love to tell us while we still have the chance
41:04
to ask them? I'll tell you certain questions
41:08
that I've asked that have led to wonderful responses,
41:12
not just through my own family members, but also
41:15
through other clients, family members. And They
41:20
don't have to be very complex questions. You
41:22
know, it can be simple questions about, tell
41:26
me more about your best memories as a child or
41:30
your clearest earliest memories of a child. I
41:33
like to focus on the formative years because
41:36
those are the ones that maybe other family members
41:40
may not have asked about or not asked so much
41:44
about. They may have asked questions about something
41:46
more recent in their lives or things that they
41:50
already really know about that family member.
41:52
But I think childhood stories tend to reveal
41:57
a lot about how that person came to be the way
41:59
they did, to the way they turned out. There are
42:02
stories I found or other questions I've asked
42:04
that have revealed so much about a storyteller
42:08
is often asking about another loved one in their
42:12
life. For example, tell me about the relationship
42:15
of your grandmother. or of your grandfather,
42:18
right? People who have probably passed away like
42:21
60, 70 years ago and then that person is brought
42:24
back into life and suddenly previous generations
42:27
that may have been long forgotten are suddenly
42:30
revived a little bit. One woman I asked her,
42:32
her mother died when she was just an infant.
42:36
She was born during the Second World War. So
42:40
she had no memories of her mother and I still
42:41
asked her to tell me about the loss of your mother
42:44
and how is that? affected you? And I was a little
42:48
afraid of asking that, but before we've started
42:51
rolling, I wanted, you know, can I ask this question?
42:54
And she said, Yeah, that's okay. You know, it's
42:57
been a long time, I can talk about it. Anyway,
42:59
it led to an incredible answer about how Her
43:05
father and other people who other loved ones
43:08
who really knew her mother many of them were
43:10
very hesitant to talk about Because back then
43:13
it was kind of like oh, no, she died No, no,
43:16
we don't want to you know, we don't want to bring
43:17
up sad feelings or anything like that So what
43:21
she valued the most in terms of memories of her
43:24
mother were not just the very few photographs
43:26
that still survived because she died Her mother
43:29
passed when she was only 25 of tuberculosis.
43:32
She was a nurse in the war in the Second World
43:34
War. She got infected by an injured soldier.
43:38
Anyway, but her mother was an artist and she
43:42
had beautiful paintings that her mother had painted
43:46
when she was only 15, 16 years old in the late
43:49
1930s. And she still had them hanging in another
43:52
room in the house. And so she talked about how
43:55
much those paintings meant to her. it led to
43:58
really like a lot of emotional outpouring frankly
44:01
and so after that interview I filmed those paintings
44:06
just from different angles some pans some tilts
44:09
and you know made them look as nice as I could
44:12
and then I edited those into her response of
44:16
how her mother even though she never got a chance
44:19
to know her those paintings that survive are
44:24
a constant reminder of not only a lost loved
44:28
one's art, but also it was a reminder of a big
44:33
void she's always had in her life that she's
44:35
never been able to fill. And it was a very profound
44:38
answer. Almost brought me to tears, frankly.
44:42
I imagine that you have a lot of that, those
44:45
experiences when you hear all these stories.
44:47
I know when I teach guided autobiography to seniors
44:51
and they are writing their memoirs. And I get
44:54
to be witness to a community that forms amongst
44:58
each other, helping and supporting each other.
45:00
And I get to hear these incredible stories of
45:04
their, I just get off those calls with those
45:06
classes. This is just, you just feel so full.
45:10
Yes. Another example, I remember a gentleman
45:13
who was originally from Albania. Wonderful man.
45:16
Great, great guy. had a very, very long, enriched,
45:20
successful life. But he was also born in Albania
45:24
just as World War II was breaking out. And I
45:29
just asked him the simple question. It was very
45:30
early on the interview. I just asked him, you
45:33
know, what are some of your earliest memories
45:34
of as a child? And suddenly the war just spilled
45:39
out of his. He was only three and four and five.
45:43
I think by the time the war ended, he was only
45:45
six or seven years old. The memories he had were
45:48
so clear because they were so traumatic. And
45:51
even for a three or four year old, they were
45:54
so ingrained in his mind that he could remember
45:55
them. And that answer lasted probably about 25
45:59
minutes. I didn't ask any follow up questions.
46:03
I just sat there and went, oh my God, I've really
46:05
opened up something. I'm going to shut up. And
46:08
he just kept talking. And two or three parts
46:12
of that long 20, 25 minute answer were tears.
46:16
Yeah, I just realized, you know, again, sometimes
46:19
a simple question can lead to the most profound
46:22
and emotionally impacting answers. You just,
46:25
you don't know. But you don't know until you
46:27
ask. And that's why I say if you want to ask
46:30
your senior loved one certain questions, you
46:32
can just start with childhood and don't try to
46:34
get too sophisticated. Ask simple questions,
46:38
you know, memories of certain family members,
46:41
also childhood memories, memories of how you
46:43
met your spouse. Those can lead to wonderful
46:46
answers and avoid yes and no answers Yes information,
46:52
you know the five W's and how Start with those
46:56
because then you'll get a lot more than just
46:59
yes or no questions. Mm -hmm Yeah, it is all
47:02
about that keeping them open -ended for sure.
47:05
Yeah, I can talk all day about it, but I think
47:07
that's the essential. Yeah James if somebody
47:11
wants to find you What's a great way for them
47:13
to get in touch with you? We're going to put
47:15
your links and all of your contact info in the
47:18
show notes, but if somebody has heard this story
47:21
today and heard your story today and wants to
47:24
inquire, how can they get in touch with you?
47:26
I have a website for good starters, familyhistorystudio
47:29
.com. It's very easy to find. I've got some examples
47:32
I can put up now, professional mini -bios, I
47:35
call those. uh, the short two, two minute bios.
47:38
Take a little time. You can see some video clips
47:40
and they're short because I know people's attention
47:43
spans are, they can be a little bit on the short
47:45
side. So they're very few of them over three,
47:47
four minutes long. And yeah, please, you know,
47:50
get in touch with me. My email is James at familyhistorystudio
47:55
.com. Very easy to find me that way. And great,
47:58
great. Now I think it's just a great gift that
48:01
you're creating for folks to keep. So I think
48:03
that's wonderful. It's great work. I love it.
48:07
It's great. It is great work. So that's all the
48:10
time we have for today. I want to thank you so
48:12
much for sharing your story with us. You know,
48:15
your work is just a wonderful reminder that being
48:18
a storyteller doesn't necessarily mean that you
48:22
are telling someone else's story. It's you opening
48:25
the space for someone to be able to tell their
48:28
own story. Exactly. the questions you're asking
48:32
for the way that you're listening. So just thank
48:35
you for the work that you're doing. Oh, well,
48:38
thank you for appreciating it. And I love doing
48:41
it. I hope it can continue for as long as possible.
48:43
And to our listeners, whether you've first heard
48:47
us locally through BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts,
48:50
or you're tuning in from across the globe on
48:53
Spotify, Apple podcasts or Amazon podcasts. Thank
48:57
you for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode
49:00
and we'll see you next time. Happy storytelling!