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What are Therapy Buzzwords? · Brilliant Minds?

• Andrea: We press the button and we are officially recording. And welcome back to another episode of Brilliant Minds Wellness. no, why do I keep doing that? Welcome back to another episode of Brilliant Minds, where we are professionals only sometimes, and when we're off the clock, we're not. I'm Andrea and this is my co-host as always. Olivia: Olivia, we are not wellness. Let's not get it confused. Andrea: Maybe we need to rethink some of our marketing. just kidding. I am really excited to talk about this topic today because I think this is one we've had on our list for a while. We just haven't touched it, right? Olivia: Yeah. Well that and we haven't recorded in a bit, so it's like a we're getting the band back together and we're crossing off something on the list that we've had on there for a god knows how long. Andrea: I know, right? We had so much fun with the Reddit ones, but I think that this one kind of goes along the same lines in a way because I feel like Reddit users do these things a lot. So today we are gonna be reviewing and kind of talking about like therapy buzzwords. And that can mean just about anything. So I'm really excited to see what you have on your list because I think I like jumped around a little bit on what therapy buzzwords could mean. And then started to get real like I felt cringe by myself. Olivia: Well, you know what I did? I is I did like a quick Google of therapy buzzwords just to see like what like what words came up or what what would I dunno what would populate 'cause I c I could Andrea: Right. I did the same thing. Olivia: Okay, 'cause I could think of some off the off the top, but I so the one that I immediately thought of, and we've talked a little bit about this on the podcast, is transference. Andrea: Ooh. I did not have that one written down. That's a good one. Olivia: That one was not even Googled. That was all me and my brain. So you're welcome, world. but I f I think that it's kind of an a little bit of an overused word. Andrea: Would you say that it's overused in our like among colleagues and peers or like among the general public? Olivia: Definitely among colleagues and peers in the field for sure. And I feel like it has become commonplace enough that people will reference it, the general public. Like it's Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Olivia: become a more common term is transference. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: I don't hear counter transference really being thrown out there and society at large but But it is used a lot in the field and colleagues, prof you know, other professionals use counter transference. But I I don't know why. I just really don't like the w that term. I don't know what it is about Andrea: Mm. Olivia: it. I there's this level to the word transference that immediately makes me feel like there's a sense of entitlement. Andrea: Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Olivia: to it almost. Like it's it's being presumptuous in a way. Andrea: Okay. Olivia: Does that make any sense? Andrea: Think so. I mean, I will be totally transparent, which is another word. that I think I get transference and counter-transference blended in my brain a lot. So I don't use either like ever. So, like, how might you define Olivia: Well we and we've talked about the Andrea: it? Olivia: Yeah, okay, so we've talked about this on the podcast and I also get those two absolutely like Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: linked and confused. 'Cause I think transference okay. Andrea: love a good live Google. Olivia: We've gotten some things wrong on the podcast before. Andrea. and so I don't want to get it wrong. Andrea: Rude. Just kidding. Olivia: okay. I was I was wrong. I'm glad I looked this up. Andrea: Ha ha ha. Olivia: It's the client redirecting feelings or expectations or whatever from someone else in their life onto the therapist. Andrea: Yeah. Interesting. And then counter transference is the reverse. Olivia: But then what's counter This is the therapist yeah, the therapist to the client. Which is okay, to be let's be really clear. If that's the actual definition of both of those, then people in the field are using that in very confusing ways. Because other therapists will tell me, I had this transference with the client when really they should be saying counter transference. So no wonder Andrea: Mm-hmm. Counter transparency. Olivia: I would have been defining it incorrectly. Yeah. Per how other people Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. I Olivia: used it. Andrea: it definitely makes me think a lot about that word because it's like well it isn't the space of therapy for what that is, like aren't clients gonna bring stuff like that to us? Like I think I I think I get lost a little bit on like why is that necessarily because like I feel like it is brought up in a context of like it's not a good thing. And I think that's where Olivia: Yes, yeah. Andrea: I get stuck, where it's like, but isn't that the point? Like, cause I think I was taught in school that if you experience transference, however this shows up, that you call it out and you talk about it. So I think when I hear some clinicians talk about it, I'm like, so then why didn't you identify that in the session? Like, why are you bringing that to supervision and like I think I'm just I get really confused with that word so much. Olivia: I get confused because why can't we just use projection? Andrea: Yeah. I I I definitely use that word so much more than transference. Like I've Olivia: Yeah, same. But that's what it is. Andrea: I've probably said transference more in the last six minutes than I have in the last like Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: three years. Olivia: I mean I don't use the terms at all. I definitely Andrea: Right. Yeah. Olivia: use the term projection because that makes sense to Andrea: Mm. Olivia: me. Again, this is my personal gripe with the term transference because Andrea: Right. Olivia: it sounds it sounds like it's trying to be something that's not. Like it's i i it feels like we're Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: overcomplicating what projection is. You say projection, Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: everyone knows what that means. Andrea: Right. Right. I mean I I know so many therapists too that get really confused between the two. So I'm like, why are we still using it? Olivia: 'Cause we want to sound smarter than we are. That's what I think. That's why it's a therapy buzzword. Is I think it's a Andrea: Yeah. yeah. Mm-hmm. Olivia: buzzword specifically for other people in the field. Because we wanna seem like Andrea: Mm. Olivia: we know what we're talking about. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think kind of along those same lines is one that I wrote down on my list, which is triangulation. Olivia: Ooh okay. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I I will fully acknowledge triangulation can sometimes be not great, right? It's not helpful, especially like when you're talking about family therapy or couples therapy or things like that. But sometimes I like hear clinicians use the term and I'm like, is that what that is? Like, is it triangulation? And I also feel like in the general public, excuse me, triangulation has been used like one of those Therapy buzzwords that people use on social media. It's like they triangulated me. And it's like, well, they're also just talking to you. Like it's kind of along those lines where it's like, I don't think people quite understand the definition to its fullest of that one, where they just kind of like use it in this like context. And it's like, maybe you're just using that to sound smart. Olivia: That's a good point. I mean, what to you would be just two people communicating to you and what would be triangulation? Andrea: Triangulation, I mean, I take such a clinical view of triangulation. Like I don't use it in my day-to-day Olivia: Hmm. Andrea: life. I'm very clinical when it comes to that. So like if I have a client whose family is like one person is coming to them and the other person is coming to them and they're trying to kind of like tug them back and forth and they're kind of the middle ground between two opinions. That to me is triangulation, where they're like, well, they're trying to triangulate you into their system, which is causing tension and an imbalance, right? Like it's causing these issues. whereas like if they have a friend that's talking to them and another friend that's talking to them and they're just venting, like that to me is just venting. But if they're trying to pull or yank someone to their side or convince them of something, that to me is triangulation. I also could be wrong. Olivia: Yeah. I mean, from my perspective I think the line's a little blurry. Andrea: Mm-hmm. I I mean, I agree. I think that's as we go through some of these buzzwords, I think we're gonna hit that a lot. Because I think therapy Olivia: Fair Andrea: buzzwords are for therapy. And I think that was something as I was looking at some of these buzzwords, where I was like, that's a therapy word. Like those are words that we learn in school, right? These are things that we talk about in a clinical sense. But I'm seeing like these things be talked about in the general public or just be used as words and general like conversation and I'm like, hold on. Like, let's back up. Olivia: Yeah. You know what? That kind of reminds me of another I think set to me they kinda go hand in hand set of buzzwords I didn't have on my list, Andrea: Mm. Olivia: which is codependency and dependency. Andrea: I had those on my list. Mm-hmm. Olivia: You did. We're we're on the same wavelength. Andrea: Yeah, yeah, I would I would totally agree with that. I mean, I'll be I'll be honest, I used codependency in a joke today, but I was like, ha ha, it's a joke. Like Olivia: You're never allowed to joke about things like that. Come on now. Andrea: Right? Yeah. Olivia: Yeah. I see a lot of people use those two words interchangeably and I from my perspective Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: they're not interchangeable. Because codependent is more that both of you are like overly dependent on the other person. But you can Andrea: Mm. Olivia: have one person be dependent on a thing or a person and that thing or person not be dependent back. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: So I think those g those two words get used interchangeably and they're not they're not necessarily interchangeable. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely hear the like, you're so codependent and it's like, wait a second, do you mean dependent? Like Yeah. Olivia: Right. Co. The y do you know what co means? It's not worker, Andrea: Together. Olivia: it's co worker. Meaning you work together. That's what that means. Yeah. Totally. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Which that's funny, these are gonna all like kind of trail into each other. I feel like one that I had on my list that's kinda like in my eyes, like similar, Trauma Bond. I think trauma bond also gets used in Olivia: Ooh. That's a good one. Andrea: ways that's like maybe not accurate. Like I think I think different people have different understandings of what trauma bond is, but I've seen it where people are like, I'm so trauma bonded to this person and it's so wonderful and all of this. And I believe the definition of a trauma bond is not actually healthy. Like it's not a positive relationship trait necessarily. Am I wrong in that? Olivia: Well, actually as you were talking, I was thinking about the idea of clinically speaking, is there such a thing as a trauma bond? Andrea: That too. I w yeah, that's actually a great question. Olivia: Because my mind immediately goes to attachment theory because if if there is such a thing as a Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: clinical like trauma bond, then that would to me almost fall under what we know about attachment and secure attachments and insecure attachments. Andrea: Mm. Olivia: So yeah, clinically I clinically I would never use that term, first off. Andrea: I don't I don't ever either. I think I hear clients use it so much more at me. And and I always ask, like, what does that mean to you? And Olivia: Mm. Andrea: I and dissect it with them. And I don't really use it back now that I'm thinking about it, but I have heard people bring it to therapy or say it on social media. Or I think we used it a lot right after COVID a lot where we was like, we trauma bonded through COVID and through the pandemic. And it's like, I can see that socially like makes sense, but it also doesn't necessarily like mean anything in that context. Other than like we went through this universal trauma, this like, right? We can bond over Olivia: Right. Andrea: trauma, but are we actually trauma bonded? Olivia: Right, or or even to like separate it out a little bit more, can you connect with somebody because of a mutually negative experience? Absolutely. But does it mean you are bonded to that person? No? Andrea: Yeah. I and I think I've also heard it in the context of like me and this person went through this one specific trauma together, therefore we're meant to be together. Olivia: As in friends or partners or just any any of the above? Andrea: E any of the above, more so I think I've seen it in romantic relationships where it's like we went through this thing, but I actually I'm pretty sure research and science says that like going through a major trauma is actually more likely to cause like divorce and splitting. Olivia: There's so many things there. Because I got a little bit of the Andrea: Yeah, the big one. Olivia: ick w yeah, I because I got a little bit of the ick of, like we're meant to be together, like, But then Andrea: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Olivia: the idea that a stressful or traumatic event would be the ender in a relationship, that makes logical sense to me, but then I'm like, so these are the two extremes? Obvio obviously I know there's there's stuff in the middle, but yeah. Andrea: Right. Yeah. Right. Olivia: I d now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think I've ever had a client use that term. I've I've I've used Andrea: Really? Olivia: it jokingly. I've Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: used it jokingly. Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: but I've never used it seriously and it's like I hear it a lot, like Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: anecdotally, right? Like with other people, friends on social media, whatever. I mostly Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: hear about it in terms of jokes. I never really Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: hear it in terms of I don't know, people being that serious about it. Interesting. Andrea: Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder if I wonder if that's because of our different populations that you and I work with, like if it's related to that. They're not they're not Olivia: Yeah. We we don't have two different of populations, but Andrea: that different. Not now at least, but like, you know, I feel like I heard it a lot with Gen Z. Olivia: Mm, yeah, maybe maybe. Andrea: Yeah. It yeah, it's oddly one that I have heard a ton in my career from clients. Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: and it's one that's kind of like, I don't think you fully understand like what that means for you or and a lot of the times I have to kind of reframe it in attachment lenses or reframe it in a trauma lens and like Talk about it or deconstruct what that means. And I'm totally open to doing that. But when I do hear it, I'm like, here we go. Olivia: Has anyone ever ever said that they're trauma bonded to you? Andrea: as jokes in my social life, but Olivia: Yeah. I w it just made me think I'm like, have we joked that we're trauma bonded because Andrea: Yes, we have. Olivia: man Man, we're no better than anyone else. Andrea: Well of course not. Olivia: Yeah, that's fair. Andrea: Ha ha Olivia: Yeah. Okay, so another one I had on my list was which is related to trauma, triggered. Andrea: Same, I had it on my list too. Olivia: First thing I'll say, dramatically aggressively overused. The word. And I think that's doing a lot of disservice to a lot of people. Andrea: I I totally agree. It has taken Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: it has taken on how do I say this? Like less of an importance in some people's life or like less it's not Olivia: It's become desensitized. Andrea: y there it is. That's that's what I was looking for. Olivia: Yeah, I think the other thing that I think goes with triggered, which isn't necessarily a s a therapy buzzword, but I see these two words used a lot together is someone is triggered or someone is like too sensitive. Sensitive Andrea: Yes. Yeah. Olivia: being a big thing. and usually in this context why it bothers me so much. Is usually in this context, someone has been pushing someone else's buttons pretty purposefully, and then the person reacts and is dysregulated Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: or emotional or whatever. And then the other person's like, you're triggered. It's like, Well, Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: you're just meanie you're just being a meanie poo-poo head, so yeah, like Andrea: Right. Yeah. The the importance Olivia: Like yeah. Andrea: and the importance of that word has has really been desensitized. Like the way that the reason that word exists just kind of doesn't exist anymore. Like I know that I find myself using activator a little bit more often or like Olivia: Hmm, I like the Andrea: Yeah, and I and I just I feel like that's a little bit more broad and we can narrow it down so much easier. And sometimes I will use trigger if that's the client's word that they want to use. But I also like the same thing about some of these other things is that I want to educate people on the impact of that word, the way that it makes other people feel, the way that it makes like an individual feel when we use it. And to just like be a little bit more aware of of what that word entails because it has become so desensitized and it might actually hurt someone if you're just like using it flippantly. Olivia: Yeah, because i No, I'd be curious to know what you think. I'm guessing you're gonna say probably somewhat similar. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: When I think about the term trigger specific to thinking about it very clinically. I'm thinking about someone who has usually some pretty intense PTSD. And so Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yes. Olivia: when I'm referencing that that person has been or has experienced a trigger, it means that it's Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: it's eliciting a really strong physical response. Like a PTSD response. Andrea: Yes. Olivia: A flashback, a panic attack, Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: a a nightmare, y whatever it is. And so Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: when we use that word that's clinically what we're talking about or should be Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Olivia: talking about. Andrea: Yeah. I think even like in that in the training that you and I are kind of in the middle of right now, she talks about triggers at some point really briefly. And how like in the neurodivergent world, like it's kind of been taken a little bit, but to use more words like overstimulated, activated, right? Because I I think that that is a really good way to describe how to use it effectively. And where it came from, I'm pretty sure is PTSD like research and processing and all that type of stuff because it is related to that. Like it is a very serious thing. Olivia: Right, right. which everyone seems to remember every fourth of July on New Year's Eve when they send off fireworks of well you know, don't do it because of that one person in the armed forces that has PTSD and will get triggered and a half flashbacks. I'm like, Well, that's not the only reason not to do fireworks. I mean I'm pretty anti firework, I'll just put it out there. but it's not really the only reason, but I Yeah, it's like people remember it at these two times of the year. this is what trigger actually means. Is that like Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: a firework could trigger these things. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: But that's all that you get is a twice a year remembrance. Andrea: Yeah, and then just like flippant usage in between all of that of I'm feeling triggered Olivia: Right. Andrea: or like, you're triggered. I hate when somebody else uses it at someone. Like Olivia: yeah, again, because Andrea: Ugh. Olivia: in so many of those scenarios it feels like they're getting poked and prodded and then they're re reacting to that. And it just that feels very gross to me. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. So I have one also kind of along the same r like line, which is dissociate. Olivia: Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah. Ooh. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do believe that dissociate is a really good descrip descriptor word for people who experience it. Like I think it's really great. Olivia: Yes. Andrea: But it also is one of those words that I think social media has taken and kind of run with in a lot of ways. I do think there are ways to utilize it effectively. and I'll be honest, sometimes I use it where I'm like, I'm just gonna go dissociate on the couch. Like Like a little sim character. But I also I am fully understanding of like the actual terminology of that word and like where it comes from. Olivia: I just had to laugh because when you were talking I was thinking about a message I got from you like not long ago of I just disassociated so hard, dude. Like I think I think that was the whole message. Just I just disassociated so hard. Andrea: Yeah, it was. Yeah. Olivia: I also th I also think generally disassociation gets a really bad rap. Andrea: Yes, yes, it does. Olivia: Which which I'm really not quite sure why we do that. Wha why? I mean, if you're if you Andrea: Yeah, that's curious. Olivia: if you're disassociating to the level in which you cannot remember things and there's big gaps in your memory and you don't know how different things are happening, that yeah, that is scary a and that would be that would be no good. And we would want Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: to try to address that. Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: But if you're disassociating and when you pull up to some place you can't remember how you got there or you can't remember any of the colors of the lights that you passed. Andrea: Right. Would you say Olivia: Wait, come on. Andrea: would you say that dissociation? I don't know, I cringe saying this a little bit, but like, and maybe this is another buzz term, is on a spectrum. Olivia: Mm Yeah. I mean just like any other symptom, right? Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the origins of dissociation is what you described first, right? Like the scary lose your memory, like, but you're still functioning as a person type thing. Like that is where the term came from. And then we've slowly over time have started to notice like the nuance within dissociation and the like limitations. But I do think that there are places where it's like, why'd you just say you dissociated? Like you just you know how to get to the gas station. your house. Olivia: Well yeah, also what's the difference between processing and being spacey and dissociating? I think for me that's a that's a fuzzy gray line to me. Just because I Andrea: Mm, mm. Olivia: I can be a pretty big internal processor and so Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: I won't realize how in my own world I am about things. And then when I pop back Andrea: Yeah. Well Olivia: out, I'm like, you Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: know, is that processing or am I disassociating a little bit? I don't know. Andrea: Yeah, I definitely agree. I think the lines are super fuzzy. So sometimes it can be difficult. I think there's a lot of context associated with it too, right? I think dissociation at its extreme is caused by an activator, aka a trigger. right. Like when we think of dissociative identity disorder, like that is a really extreme case of dissociation. Like that is where that comes from, is this like caused by a trauma trigger and then a total disconnection to reality. and then I think that there's like neurodivergent experiences of dissociation in a way that are maybe more of like processing or like overstimulation, shutdown and things like that. And I wonder, Olivia: Ooh, yeah. Andrea: right, how much how much is that actually dissociation? Is that appropriate to use that term? Like I think I'm still trying to figure that out, but it feels that way. Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. I just think generally I think dissociation gets a little bit of a bad rap because I think there Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: are some helpful pieces to it and it's protective, right? It's your body's way Andrea: Yes. Olivia: of being protective, so just on that alone I don't wanna I don't know. I d Andrea: I mean Olivia: mislabel it essentially. Andrea: totally. I don't know if you've ever done this. This fresca is making me burpee. I don't know if you've ever done this, but I have told a client to say, like, sounds like you just need to lay on the couch and dissociate for a little bit from the world and just like in a way recharge your battery utilizing that as a strength. Because I think once you realize that it can be helpful and protective, like you just said, it can actually be a way to be like. I need to recharge. I need to just like be done right now. And like there are ways that you can get really caught up in that dissociation, but then there are ways where it can be really helpful so long as you know that for yourself. Olivia: I'm glad that you said it in that way because it reminded me that I call that I have a a silly term for that. I call that existence time. Andrea: Ooh, I like that. That's good. Olivia: That like I just need to go exist. Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: And usually that means I'm like spacing out and kind of in my own mental world somewhere. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: Is that processing? Is that burnout? Is that dissociation? I don't know. It's existence. I'm existing. Yeah. Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: I'm still in my own body for the most part. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: so yeah, I call it existence time. And I've definitely recommended that to clients before. I've been like, it seems like you need Andrea: Yeah. I like that. Olivia: to go like exist somewhere for a bit. Andrea: I might have to steal that because that like makes a lot of sense in the like way of kind of separating it a little bit and keeping those things Olivia: Right. Andrea: appropriately named. Olivia: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I mean disassociative identity disorder, I agree. It's a it's a very real thing, it's a very intense thing, it's a scary thing, and it's also extremely rare. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever worked with anyone Olivia: So the Andrea: with D I D? Olivia: N no, I've supervised people that have worked with people that claim they have D ID, that have like self diagnosed themselves with D I D, which that's interesting. Andrea: I I have worked with one person that I have actually seen DID be active in. And it was fascinating and very, very like interesting to work with. Olivia: I bet. Wii back I technically did work with somebody that had D I D. I think with this specific person I never saw any of the altars. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Olivia: the client referenced them, but they also had a lot of substance use, like a lot there was a lot of comorbidity going on. There's a lot of other diagnoses is what that means. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: and so how much was it D I D and how much was it when that person was using they were a different person. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. And and it's Olivia: Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting one. Andrea: so heavily trauma connected to like Olivia: Well could it not be? I mean, Andrea: Right. Olivia: disassociation is directly linked to PTSD. So the of course it would be a part of a conversation around trauma. Andrea: Yeah, totally. Yeah, but Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: it's a good one. Olivia: Yeah. another one I had on my list was Narcissist. Andrea: That's literally what I had underneath disassociate. Olivia: I like it. We have gotten too heavy handed in general with throwing out the term Andrea: I agree. Olivia: narcissist. Andrea: One hundred percent agree. I don't know if I have much else to say other than that. Olivia: Me neither. Stop using the word narcissist when someone is just kind of a dick or selfish. They might have tendencies, but like full blown actual narcissist diagnosable narcissistic personality disorder is still relatively rare, just like disassociative identity disorder or DID. Sometimes people are just rude and mean and you don't like them and they treat you terribly. That Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: doesn't inherently make them a narc a narcissist. Andrea: Hmm. Can I tack one onto that that's like the same for me? Olivia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Andrea: borderline. Like that's so borderline. That person Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: is borderline. It's this it's very much the same thing for me, where it is like borderline personality disorder is also like not as common as I think people realize. It is very difficult to diagnose. There's like lots of stipulations to Olivia: Yes. Andrea: it. And I don't like the way that we just Throw around like, you're being so borderline right now, or like you're being a narcissist right now. Like those are becoming words that are just in our vocabulary. And and just like trigger, they're almost becoming desensitized and or used in ways that it's like, let's not, no, no, no. Like selfishness is inherent. Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: We are supposed to be selfish people. We are human beings. Like. Olivia: I remember when I first got into the field, I feel like the common word to throw around was that someone who was bipolar, if they were moody. and that would irritate Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Olivia: the bejesus out of me anytime anyone in like cl in my s even if it was somewhat close circle started calling people bipolar because they were moody, I immediately hopped on that shit and was like, Okay, let's talk about what bipolar actually is, because you were doing a massive disservice by labelling something as bipolar when you actually have no idea what that is. So that's my Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: exact same gripe when it comes to narcissist and borderline personality disorder. I feel like borderline kind of has like taken the spot of bipolar. Or sometimes I see people Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: use them interchangeably. Like they're kind of the same thing. And I'm like, whoa, you have no idea what Andrea: Yes. Yeah. Even Olivia: you're talking about. Andrea: you know, even as we're talking about this, I would almost even start to lump OCD in that also. Like I don't think it's Olivia: Yeah. Andrea: quite as bad as it used to be. Like bipolar is kind of fizzles out a little bit, but I think OCD is kind of in that circle of word or verbiage that people are like, you're so OCD, or like, that's just my OCD self. fully admit I do that sometimes where I'm like I'm being so so O C D right now, right? Like fully admit that I do that. But it doesn't mean that I like I know the connotations and I'm gonna like say I'm, you know, let me correct myself if it's not appropriate. But like that's another one that I think I would lump into that also. Olivia: Yeah, yeah. People like, I like things a certain way, I'm so O C D and and you just sit there and you go, That is not O C D. People are can be crippled by O C D. You don't seem crippled. You seem like you like a system or you seem like you're Andrea: Okay. Olivia: a controlling person, or you seem like you know what I mean? It's just d let's Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: just let's just call it what it is. You're this not O C Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: D. Andrea: Totally. There are so many human behaviors that we just do that I think we just want to label all the all the time. And it's like we don't need to label those things. Like it's okay. It's okay to be organized. You know? And I think somebody who actually experiences OCD or somebody who is actually a narcissist, it's actually going to be a whole lot harder to recognize those things. An OCD person isn't gonna say, I'm so OCD. Like, not that that's not what that is. Most people that I diagnose that I've like worked with who actually have diet like OCD, their mind is blown. They're like, what? I'm like, yeah. Olivia: Right. Yeah, oof. Oof. I have others on my list. I only have two more. Do you have any? Andrea: Yeah. Okay, what you got? Olivia: next one you're gonna have to go with me on this one. Next one is boundaries. Andrea: Really curious about this one for you because I saw when I did my Google that one popped up on an article I read. So I'm curious: like, what is it for you? Olivia: So I haven't seen it super often, so I wanna give a little bit more credit out there to people talking about boundaries or that they're working on boundaries. However, I have seen people use boundaries as their reason to be a dick to somebody. Andrea: Yeah. so it's like weaponized it's a weaponized term sometimes. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. Olivia: Yes. Yeah. Like, like I have a boundary about that. Blah blah like you Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: A boundary doesn't mean you get an excuse to be mean to somebody or be rude to somebody. like that's not what a boundary is. Andrea: Yeah. totally. I've even seen where people are appropriately and and really healthy setting boundaries for themselves in their life and then their family or the people around them are like, just like use that against them, where it's like, sorry, that's your boundary. It's like, yeah, it is. Like, why are you using that against me? Like it has become a weapon. Yeah, yeah. Olivia: Like it's like some bad thing. Yeah. Andrea: I don't like it. Olivia: Right, right. It it it almost feels like it it's gotten overused. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia: And I think one of the words that I use not all the time, obviously, 'cause I still use the word boundary. I mean that I don't I think it's pretty impossible as a clinician to move completely away from using the word boundary. Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: but I use the word expectation a lot. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely. I think I I use expectation a lot. I use I mean I still use boundary a lot. Like I think it there's a lot of context and what's supportive and what's not. But yeah, I think I think I use expectation quite a bit now too. Yeah. Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Or even sometimes I'll use the word non negotiables. Andrea: Hmm, yeah. What about like needs? Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's also I think there's sometimes a l a lot of misunderstanding around a what a boundary actually is, which is why I think it's h Andrea: I think that's yeah. Olivia: yeah, I think that's why it's helpful to think about like, is this an expectation that I have? Is this a need that I have? Is this something that's non negotiable for me? Not necessarily Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: a like a bound but isn't necessarily a boundary, if that makes sense. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think boundary is like a big word. And then I think there are types of boundaries, right? Like in a way where it's like a classification, Olivia: Hmm. Yeah. Andrea: where it's like this is an expectation I have. This is a like a a hard no I have. This is a a need that I have. Right. Like I've got boundaries around these things. I've got these are my guidelines for myself or whatever they are. Olivia: Yeah, yeah. I feel like w w it would be better to diversify the vocabulary when it comes to the idea boundaries. Yeah. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely find myself doing that with people where if they use a word, I will ask them what they mean by that word. And I won't often use it. I would like, unless it's important to them, like I will use things like, well, that sounds like an expectation, or you know, that sounds like a a guideline you have for yourself, or whatever it is, I will often like support a reframe in that way when it feels necessary. Olivia: Hm, yeah. Yeah. Boundary. Definitely Andrea: Mm. Olivia: overused. But not in a like a awful, terrible way. Like triggered is is such an overused word. So Andrea: Right. Yeah. Olivia: it's still we're still doing better than that. Andrea: Yeah, yeah. And like I think it is interesting that like so many therapy words are going out into the world, which I think more means more and more people are attending therapy, which I like, but it's also like, Hey, let's chill out a little bit. Olivia: Yeah, right. Hm. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Did you have another one? Olivia: Did you have another one? Andrea: I could have two more. Olivia: Go for it. Andrea: Okay, the first one is gaslight. That's all. Olivia: So I s I saw this too. I struggle with this one because Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: most of the time that I see it it's accurately used. Andrea: Yes, I agree. And I think that Olivia: And Andrea: there are also better ways of just saying it rather than just saying, hey, you're gaslighting me. Like I Olivia: Well w okay, so what would you say instead? Andrea: So I think if I was feeling like someone was gaslighting me, I would okay, maybe this is just me as a therapist and just like, I don't know. Maybe I'm too well adjusted for some people. But I I'd be like, I hear that that's what you believe and I want to understand why. And I think I coach my clients into like asking questions like that or like being curious about why that person is saying those things. Because I do think I see people. At least in some of the contexts I've seen gaslight use, yes, it's used appropriately and accurately, but I also think that there's a lot of times where people are like, you're gaslighting me. But it's really like that person actually does have that perception of that experience, and that is their experience, or that is how they perceive. And I think that we need to be a little bit more curious about how people react to things instead of just saying, like, you're gaslighting me right now, where it's like, Okay, I want to understand why you perceived that thing that way because what if I did something that caused you to react that way that's making me feel gaslit? Olivia: Hm. Yeah, maybe a better way better way to think about it or like define it if we were defining gaslighting is that we use the term gaslighting when it's more of a pattern. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's a total that's a great way to look at it. Olivia: Then a one off experience. Because yeah, you're right. I wouldn't say to a friend if there was a misunderstanding happening, like, like you're you're gaslighting me I'd be like, Well wait, why are our interpretations so different? What's going on here? Andrea: Yeah, that's a great way to say it. Olivia: But if it was someone who I routinely felt dismissed by, then I'd be like, Okay, that person's gaslighting me. Andrea: Right. Right. Olivia: Also I feel like another way to think about it is if you telling a person who's gaslighting you that they're gaslighting you and they can't receive that, then that probably does mean it's a pattern. You know what I mean? Like Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Olivia: right? Like it like I think even like in a like a work setting, like being gaslit in a work setting by your boss or something and it's like a pattern, your boss is never going to admit that they're gaslighting you. Andrea: No. Olivia: So really I feel like it's a term that you can use to be able to describe what your experience is like to someone that you're commiserating with. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. my last one is a little odd. and I don't know how I don't know how people receive this one, but I don't like the term anger issues. Olivia: Okay. Andrea: And I think it's because inherently when somebody says you have anger issues, it's an implication that someone is not allowed to feel anger. And I think that I Olivia: Okay. Fair. Andrea: yeah, I feel like I hear that a lot where it's like this person has anger issues when and I haven't quite figured out like a better way to phrase it, or like maybe it's more of like. reactionary dysregulation is maybe what we need to say because I think anger issues the right Olivia: That's so clinical. Andrea: I know I don't know how else to say it but I think I get a lot of people they're like this person has anger issues and it's like they're reacting to an actual feeling that it that they're allowed to feel right like I tell my clients all the time that they're allowed to be angry. They're allowed to be upset. I will actually try to make clients angry in sessions sometimes just to get them to like fucking let it out. But I think the idea of like having anger issues is just the dysregulation of not knowing how to express and react to feeling anger. And like I wish that we didn't have the phrase in a way that's like it just I've seen it used so many times in a way that tells someone that they're bad or wrong. And that like makes me sad. Olivia: Hm, yeah. Makes me think a little bit about Anger management? No Andrea: Mm-hmm. We don't have happy management. Olivia: Well, we do. It's called medication. I I think Andrea: Ha ha Olivia: okay, so h here's here's a take. Do we think that we created anger management as a soft opening to therapy for men? Andrea: Hmm. That's interesting, maybe. Olivia: Because speaking in generalizations, socially it's infinitely more acceptable for men to show anger and or men feel like anger is the only emotion that they can show. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: And so instead of calling it therapy or group therapy or skills training or any like emotional regulation, it's anger management. It's very directly named. And Andrea: Could see that. Olivia: maybe it was that it was that way because it then became more appealing to that audience. Andrea: Mm. Olivia: Does that make sense? Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. Olivia: Like maybe that's why they call it anger issues. Andrea: Mm. Yeah. Olivia: Even though I agree with you, I do. But maybe that's why it kind of got coined that way. Andrea: totally. Yeah. Like I think that sounds like a really accurate theory to that. And it makes me sad that that's how the gender binary has been socialized to experience feelings and yeah, support and yeah, exactly. Olivia: Or like experience support for managing those feelings. Yeah. Andrea: So this is I think it that encompasses so much of what we've been talking about is like these things that we have developed in society because of like ways that we seek support and how they become social constructs. Olivia: Hm. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I I just got the splash. It'd be so fun, I feel like as a woman to join an anger management class. Andrea: Mm. Olivia: just to see what's like. I don't know. Not not obvious Andrea: Mm-hmm. Olivia: obviously as someone who's leading the group, I have absolutely no interest in leading that. But like as an attendee. Andrea: No, there was a person back in the days that tried to get me to lead a group and it was a hard pass for me. Olivia: Just any group work in general is a hard pass for me. Yeah. Okay. Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. It's very true. That's kind of my last one, so Olivia: I okay, I have one more. Andrea: K, what you got? Olivia: I okay. Might be a little bit of a buzzword. It's a little bit newer. I think I actually like it. Okay. Andrea: Okay. Olivia: Toxic positivity. Andrea: yeah. I like this one. Olivia: I do too. yeah. Andrea: Yeah. I think there's less ways that it's like used wrong. Like Olivia: Yes, yeah, it's almost like gaslighting, almost. Where generally Andrea: Yeah. Olivia: I feel like it's used correctly. Andrea: Right. Yeah. It's Olivia: Yeah, I I I really like the term po toxic positivity. I I think it's easily understood. I think people know what it means. And I think it's I think it's very real right now with how social media is and the type of media that people generally consume. as well. Andrea: Mm. Olivia: I think there's just these like two different buckets of media and content that people consume generally speaking is like all these terrible, awful things happening and a ton of fear mongering. And then all this everything is sunshine and roses and I get everything off of Amazon and here's the link and just the picture perfect Andrea: My life is perfect. My children are amazing. Yeah. Olivia: Yeah, yeah. and that's just so not real. Andrea: Yeah. I totally agree. I think I think yeah. Yeah. Olivia: So yeah, I it is newer, right? I I don't I don't f hear it a lot, but I do really like it. Andrea: I think there's even people I don't know how to say this tactfully, but like people who really like self-help tend to be like toxically positive because they're like right, like kind of the let them theories people tend to be kind of like on the toxic positivity side of things where they're like you just gotta have hope and like do this and do that and meditate and da da da and I'm like Olivia: Yeah, it's the medit yeah. You just need to like drink your water and meditate and go to bed by nine and have this, you know, Andrea: Right. Yeah. Olivia: special green tea every morning and Andrea: Ha ha Olivia: it's gonna reset every it's like fly a kite. Andrea: Right. And then I chime in and I'm like and then I chime in and I'm like, let me just have my anger issues. Olivia: See what you did there? I liked that. Andrea: Trad. Olivia: Good job. Good job. Andrea: Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one to end on because I like I really like that one. I think it is super easy to use. I think it's pretty easy to identify. Like there is not really nuance to that one. Olivia: Yeah, go out there and go out there and use it, friends. Go out there and identify some things. Andrea: Yeah. And I even call it out for myself sometimes. Like if I like if if I'm talking to someone and I'm being positive, I'm like, sorry if this comes off toxic positively. That's a weird way to say that. As toxic positivity. Olivia: It is. It's better than reversing Andrea: and that's Olivia: it and being like, I'm positively toxic. Andrea: Should we make that happen? Should we make toxically positively toxic? Olivia: Positively toxic. Andrea: My brain just broke there for a second. I'm gonna bring that one Olivia: that's funny. Andrea: in I'm gonna start making that one work positively toxic. Sounds like a Britney Spears song. Olivia: Ooh sounds like a good merch idea. Andrea: Writing it down. I love it. Well, do we have any last final thoughts for our listeners about therapy buzzwords? What do we think? Olivia: stop using words if you don't know what they mean. General rule of thumb. Those are my last and Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Olivia: final words. Andrea: Yeah. And if you go to therapy, I'm proud of you and that's amazing, but know that not everybody understands therapy words in the real world and think before you speak. Olivia: Wow. Diabolical. Andrea: Ha ha ha. You know, it's unprofessional off the clock. Who knows? Whatever I am. But thank you all for coming along this crazy ride that is us as unprofessional professionals at eight o'clock at night. we appreciate all your likes, follows, listens, all the streams, etc. Please leave comments, share our posts. It helps so much. and we can't wait to see you in the next episode. Olivia: Bye y'all. Andrea: Bye. Olivia: This podcast is for entertainment, informational, educational purposes only. Although the hosts are licensed therapists, this podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health services. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist-client relationship. Andrea: If you are experiencing mental health concerns, please seek help from a qualified mental health professional in your area. If you are in crisis, call or text a suicide prevention line in your country immediately. In the U.S., you can call or text 988 or use online chat at 988lifeline.org.