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The JFK Assassination Is Darker Than You Think | Larry Schnapf · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan are back in Disney's
0:05
Speaker 1: Freaky Friday. Yes, oh yes, yes, we switched bodies. I
0:11
Speaker 1: didn't want to be a part of this family, and
0:12
Speaker 1: now I'm part of some dodgy family curse and I'm
0:15
Speaker 1: the Elvis. This summer switched things up. I think you're
0:19
Speaker 1: just pee a little. Disney's Freaky Friday in Cinema's August eight.
0:24
Speaker 1: Look tickets now, Oh this is cool, let's do it.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hello friends, I'm your host, Christro. I'm a former Romeries commando.
0:37
Speaker 2: I've adventured for better and sometimes worse, across eighty countries
0:42
Speaker 2: on all seven continents. Welcome to the Poor let t
0:46
Speaker 2: Shirt Podcast.
0:55
Speaker 3: Larry, how are you sir?
0:57
Speaker 1: Okay?
0:58
Speaker 3: Good?
0:59
Speaker 1: Good the noon to you. Early morning for me.
1:02
Speaker 2: Yes, we were saying, weren't we. It's liaising. State side
1:08
Speaker 2: can always throws up a few issues with the time differences.
1:12
Speaker 2: And you've got how many time zones in the states?
1:16
Speaker 1: Three if you well, for the continental it's three, and
1:21
Speaker 1: then if you include Hawaii and Alaska, I guess it's
1:25
Speaker 1: two more.
1:26
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, just to add to the confusion, it's funny.
1:31
Speaker 2: My local church has just decided right now they're going
1:34
Speaker 2: to do their bell ringing practice.
1:39
Speaker 1: And by the way, I think it's Indiana has two
1:43
Speaker 1: different time zones, so that for some reason Indiana decides
1:48
Speaker 1: they couldn't decide which one. So Parlor State is in
1:51
Speaker 1: the Eastern time zone and part the state is in
1:54
Speaker 1: the Central time zone. So Parlo State's an hour behind
1:57
Speaker 1: the other part of the state. I don't know how they do.
2:00
Speaker 2: So if you wanted a lie in in the morning,
2:02
Speaker 2: you could just drag your bed across the line and
2:06
Speaker 2: your boss can't say.
2:07
Speaker 3: Anything to you.
2:09
Speaker 1: And if you want to leave early.
2:12
Speaker 2: Work so JFK, Larry, obvious question. I'm sure you're sick
2:19
Speaker 2: of being asked, but how did this peak your interest?
2:23
Speaker 1: Well? I was ten when he was shot, and you know,
2:28
Speaker 1: like everyone else in our generation, very vivid memory. But
2:32
Speaker 1: I have a funny story about even just hearing about it,
2:35
Speaker 1: because first of all, I was in fifth grade. We
2:39
Speaker 1: had just been discharged from class from school, and I
2:43
Speaker 1: was in a full card of students and one of
2:46
Speaker 1: my friends comes up to me says, the President's been shot,
2:49
Speaker 1: And the first image I had in my mind was
2:53
Speaker 1: of Lincoln. I only knew of Lincoln, you know, being
2:55
Speaker 1: shot behind the head. So had this image of like
2:58
Speaker 1: someone coming up from behind the press and then sitting
3:00
Speaker 1: in a chair and shooting him. So I ran up
3:03
Speaker 1: to the front of the of the school to talk
3:05
Speaker 1: to this girl who I like to tell her the
3:08
Speaker 1: president's been shot, and she said, nah, that doesn't happen nowadays.
3:12
Speaker 1: So we get home and so this is like it's
3:16
Speaker 1: an hour after he actually was shot, and one of
3:20
Speaker 1: my friends calls me, and now we're in New Jersey.
3:23
Speaker 1: So New Jersey is on the east coast, I mean
3:27
Speaker 1: New Jersey is like three hours by jet, four hours
3:31
Speaker 1: by plane. And this is nineteen sixty three, so everyone
3:34
Speaker 1: uses airplanes, you know, propellers. My friend calls me and
3:37
Speaker 1: tells me the assassin is in New Jersey and he's
3:40
Speaker 1: coming our way. So we're ten years old, so we
3:43
Speaker 1: go grab our boy scout knives, we get some rope,
3:46
Speaker 1: and we go down to the creek behind our house
3:49
Speaker 1: to wait for him. So he's this three ten year
3:51
Speaker 1: olds with the boy scout knives and a rope waiting
3:55
Speaker 1: for the assassin to come walk by so he can
3:59
Speaker 1: capture him and give them to the police.
4:02
Speaker 2: Hey, I tell you what Larry. Weirder things happened on
4:06
Speaker 2: that day, didn't they?
4:08
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but you know, and then I'm playing I'm
4:13
Speaker 1: playing touch football, American football in the street when Oswald
4:16
Speaker 1: gets shot. And that's that was the first time I
4:19
Speaker 1: think when people said, ooh, there's something weird about this.
4:23
Speaker 1: But I didn't really get involved until eighth grade. When
4:28
Speaker 1: I was a kid, our school was overcrowded, so they
4:32
Speaker 1: would split us up between the seventh grade would go
4:36
Speaker 1: from seven o'clock to twelve o'clock lunchtime, and then the
4:40
Speaker 1: eighth graders would go from twelve o'clock to five o'clock.
4:43
Speaker 1: So I got to stay up late at night, and
4:47
Speaker 1: I used to I was I would watch some of
4:48
Speaker 1: these old these talk shows like Alan Burke and Joe Pine,
4:52
Speaker 1: and they would bring people on to talk about the
4:54
Speaker 1: Kennedy assassination. So actually it was eighth grade is when
4:57
Speaker 1: I really really got into it. And then I read
5:02
Speaker 1: Six Seconds in Dallas by Tink Thompson. I read Mark
5:05
Speaker 1: Lane's book Rushed to Judgment, and then when I was
5:09
Speaker 1: in college, I did an independent study project on the assassination.
5:15
Speaker 1: I published a couple of articles in the college newspaper,
5:19
Speaker 1: and I actually wrote a screenplay, and this is nineteen
5:23
Speaker 1: seventy five, and my professor tells me, you can't use
5:25
Speaker 1: the name Kennedy because everybody knows what happened to Kennada.
5:28
Speaker 1: You have to create a fictional president because there'd be
5:31
Speaker 1: no interest in the screenplay. Bad advice. And then I
5:36
Speaker 1: kind of took off. I started, you know, focusing on
5:38
Speaker 1: trying to get a career. So I didn't, you know,
5:42
Speaker 1: if I if I had, I regret that I did
5:44
Speaker 1: not try to get a job with the Household Assassinations
5:48
Speaker 1: Committee or even the Assassination and Record's Review Board when
5:51
Speaker 1: I was a lawyer that the review board was in existence,
5:55
Speaker 1: but I was so busy with my environmental law career
5:58
Speaker 1: I just didn't think about taking a break. And then
6:02
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I had kidney cancer, but I was
6:06
Speaker 1: very lucky. I quoted early and so they just had
6:09
Speaker 1: to remove the kidney. And I said to myself, Okay,
6:11
Speaker 1: what am I going to do with this bonus time?
6:13
Speaker 1: So I decided to re engage in my Kennedy research,
6:20
Speaker 1: and I got active with this organization Kappa Citizens Against
6:24
Speaker 1: the Political Assassinations. We put on a mock trial, a
6:28
Speaker 1: two day mock trial at the South Texas College of
6:31
Speaker 1: Law in November twenty seventeen. And then of course we
6:35
Speaker 1: did a bunch of programming. We did a mock Court
6:38
Speaker 1: of Inquiry partition proceeding in twenty eighteen. And then when
6:43
Speaker 1: President Trump postponed the release of the records, you know,
6:47
Speaker 1: during his first term, I sent the fourier requests to
6:51
Speaker 1: Freedom Information Act request to the which I guess is
6:54
Speaker 1: open records in the UK to get copies of the
6:59
Speaker 1: underlying cars. One is to understand why he postponed the records,
7:02
Speaker 1: because he had said he was going to release them,
7:05
Speaker 1: and they didn't given to me. At first, I had
7:07
Speaker 1: to sue them. Then that got thousands of documents, and
7:10
Speaker 1: then I saw that, you know, basically the National Security
7:14
Speaker 1: Council and the CIA had hijacked the process and they
7:17
Speaker 1: had told the President the last minute missed the President
7:20
Speaker 1: it's too soon to release the records, which sixty years
7:23
Speaker 1: is too soon, right. And then when President Biden came
7:27
Speaker 1: into office, since he had been one of the senators
7:31
Speaker 1: had signed the JFK Records Act, which required the disclosure
7:34
Speaker 1: of the records, we figured he would you know, release
7:38
Speaker 1: the rest of the records. And then when he didn't,
7:41
Speaker 1: I tried to get I organized a group of people
7:45
Speaker 1: Open Records, Open good government types, lawyers, historians, researchers to
7:51
Speaker 1: sign a letter sending it to the President asking him
7:54
Speaker 1: to release the records. That was ignored. I went to Congress.
7:58
Speaker 1: I asked my representative, who was head of the Oversight
8:01
Speaker 1: Committee and the House of Representatives, which has continuing jurisdiction
8:05
Speaker 1: over the JFK Records Act, asked herd it maybe hold
8:08
Speaker 1: a hearing to see why the executive branch wasn't complying.
8:11
Speaker 1: But they were Democrats, Biden was Democrats, so they weren't
8:15
Speaker 1: going to embarrass the president. So then myself and another lawyer,
8:19
Speaker 1: Bill Simpicch, we convinced Mary Farrell Foundation to file a
8:24
Speaker 1: lawsuit against President Biden and the National Archives for failure
8:29
Speaker 1: to comply with the JFK Records Act. That case is
8:32
Speaker 1: still going on, and of course, in January, President Trump
8:38
Speaker 1: issued a new executive order certifying that the time had
8:42
Speaker 1: come to release all the records. But the problem is
8:45
Speaker 1: that all the records are not in the JFK collection
8:48
Speaker 1: that's maintained by the National Archives. There are records outstanding
8:51
Speaker 1: that have not been transmitted to the collection, and so
8:55
Speaker 1: we're trying to get those outstanding records that the Records
8:58
Speaker 1: Review Board had asked for. They went out of business
9:01
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, and they went out of business
9:04
Speaker 1: not because the job was done. It was because Congress
9:06
Speaker 1: decided they weren't going to pay for them anymore. And
9:09
Speaker 1: so there are outstanding records that are within the within
9:12
Speaker 1: the possession of the federal government, but not at the
9:14
Speaker 1: National Archives. And so we want to get both all
9:18
Speaker 1: the records in the National Archives to be released. But
9:20
Speaker 1: they didn get these other records searched, obtained, put into
9:24
Speaker 1: the archives, and then released. So and we have a
9:27
Speaker 1: Congressional task force right now that tended by Representative Paula
9:33
Speaker 1: Luna and Paulina Luna, who she is a real fireball
9:38
Speaker 1: and she's a great ally and she's working hard from
9:42
Speaker 1: the congressional side to get try to get the records released.
9:45
Speaker 1: So that's sort of thumb a thumb nail of what
9:51
Speaker 1: my background is on this.
9:54
Speaker 2: Laria are meant to say, if you see me looking over,
9:56
Speaker 2: I'm not ignoring you. I'm putting stuff up on the screen.
9:59
Speaker 2: So people at home can see what we're we're talking about. Yes,
10:06
Speaker 2: And I think you pointed out quite rightly there that
10:09
Speaker 2: it's not just that there's probably a lot of records
10:12
Speaker 2: that aren't in the official collection. It's it's also that
10:16
Speaker 2: there must be just an awful lot of other information
10:19
Speaker 2: full stop.
10:20
Speaker 1: That.
10:21
Speaker 2: I mean, there's probably personal testimonies that haven't been recorded,
10:26
Speaker 2: and observations on that that day that were possibly ignored
10:32
Speaker 2: at the time. And then of course someone knows the
10:36
Speaker 2: truth that's not in the record, is it. You know,
10:40
Speaker 2: from my understanding, it was a very complex.
10:44
Speaker 3: Operation.
10:45
Speaker 2: There's talk of LBJ, there's talk of Jewish mafia, there's
10:50
Speaker 2: talk of Italian mob obviously, the the the Patsy himself.
11:00
Speaker 2: So have you at any time, Larry like lost sort
11:04
Speaker 2: of faithful lost interest or thought that this is never
11:08
Speaker 2: going to happen.
11:10
Speaker 1: I have a couple of quixotic pursuits that I follow
11:14
Speaker 1: and I never let myself get discouraged by stepback. So
11:21
Speaker 1: I just say this is what I want to do,
11:23
Speaker 1: and you know, my tombstone is going to say he
11:26
Speaker 1: was he was the Man of La Mancha. So it
11:30
Speaker 1: can be frustrating at times, but I just try to
11:33
Speaker 1: put my head to the nose, you know, to the grindstone,
11:36
Speaker 1: and keep moving forward. So we're we're at an interesting
11:41
Speaker 1: point right now because we have the President declaring that
11:45
Speaker 1: the record should be released. We have the leadership at
11:49
Speaker 1: the CIA, the Director of National Intelligence, the FBI, Department
11:54
Speaker 1: of Justice are all loyalists to the president and want
11:57
Speaker 1: to carry out his his his wishes. And we have
12:02
Speaker 1: a Congress that has a committee, a task force that's
12:06
Speaker 1: looking into this. So we have a unique time. This
12:10
Speaker 1: is probably as good a time since the nineteen seventies. Now. Obviously,
12:15
Speaker 1: the problem is that a lot of people have died,
12:18
Speaker 1: records have been destroyed, and memories fade, so we're never
12:24
Speaker 1: going to get there's not going to be a smoking gun,
12:26
Speaker 1: for example, saying here's how we're going to kill the president.
12:29
Speaker 1: The very reason that the CIA keeps seemingly innocuous documents classified,
12:36
Speaker 1: they have this what they call the mosaic theory that
12:40
Speaker 1: a seemingly innocent document could give some hint to our
12:45
Speaker 1: adversaries about some process or information that would help put
12:51
Speaker 1: together this mosaic. Well, by the same token, all these
12:54
Speaker 1: little documents we're getting are helping us put together a
12:58
Speaker 1: mosaic on what happened or what likely happened. So it's uh,
13:04
Speaker 1: you know when they say, when the people that support
13:06
Speaker 1: the official conclusions say, oh, this is a nothing burger,
13:09
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're looking for like a smoking gun
13:13
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. These guys, particularly people that were involved
13:17
Speaker 1: in the assassination plots to kill Castro, you know, they
13:20
Speaker 1: didn't put anything in writing. They were too smart to
13:23
Speaker 1: do that. So there's gonna be no plan that says
13:27
Speaker 1: here's how we're going to kill the president. But you
13:29
Speaker 1: can put together things through inferences, and you know, so
13:34
Speaker 1: there are times when coincidence is not coincidences. So uh yeah,
13:39
Speaker 1: I mean, we're never gonna there's there's there's gonna be
13:43
Speaker 1: some holes that historians are going to have to interpret.
13:47
Speaker 1: And if a historian is you know, there's a real
13:51
Speaker 1: lot of professional pressure to not engage in so called
13:55
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. So a lot of the people that are writing,
13:59
Speaker 1: the professional little historians who are working in universities and
14:03
Speaker 1: writing books, they don't want to be ostracized, so they
14:05
Speaker 1: don't kind of go down this road unfortunately, So you know,
14:09
Speaker 1: there's a real reluctance to really address this issue because
14:14
Speaker 1: to the American people, I mean a lot of people
14:16
Speaker 1: that are supporting the Warrant Commission, I call them false patriots.
14:21
Speaker 1: Even Vincent Bulagosi, who wrote that thick book Reclaiming History,
14:27
Speaker 1: I think it was around page nine eighty eight somewhere
14:30
Speaker 1: in his book he said, what would it mean to
14:32
Speaker 1: America if there was a conspiracy within the government to
14:37
Speaker 1: kill the president? It would mean that we Americans are
14:41
Speaker 1: no different than the Europeans, and that our institutions are
14:46
Speaker 1: no better than those of a thor world country. This
14:48
Speaker 1: is about defending America's honor. See in the rest of
14:51
Speaker 1: the world there are conspiracies, but not in America. It
14:54
Speaker 1: can't happen in America because we're special where exempt we are.
14:58
Speaker 1: We have American exceptionalism. So a lot of people are
15:03
Speaker 1: are defending the official position on because they're trying. They
15:09
Speaker 1: think they're in some way defending America, when in fact,
15:12
Speaker 1: I think the value of the health of a democracy
15:16
Speaker 1: really comes is shown when you can find stuff about
15:19
Speaker 1: your country that is bad, you can let your people
15:23
Speaker 1: know about it, and you can move forward from that.
15:25
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of misguided people out there, and
15:29
Speaker 1: then there's people that approach this through an ideological lens.
15:33
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of it was weird. And for
15:36
Speaker 1: the longest time, it was the Conservatives who were defending
15:40
Speaker 1: the Ciao pooing any thoughts about CIA involvement, and was
15:46
Speaker 1: always the liberals who were trying to were believing in
15:50
Speaker 1: a conspiracy. And now it's flip flopped, and now it's
15:53
Speaker 1: the conservatives who are, you know, looking into the deep state,
15:58
Speaker 1: and it's the Democrats who are defending the CIA. And
16:02
Speaker 1: if you if any of your viewers or listeners had
16:06
Speaker 1: seen the hearings that occurred in May, the congressional hearings,
16:11
Speaker 1: you would have seen that it was the Democrats were
16:13
Speaker 1: not serious about the investigation. They were using their time
16:18
Speaker 1: instead of to ask legitimate questions to the witnesses, they
16:21
Speaker 1: were using those those times to somehow make political points
16:24
Speaker 1: against President Trump. They had no interest in the topic.
16:28
Speaker 1: So it's a really fascinating flip of what historically the
16:32
Speaker 1: attitudes were on, you know, on the assassination. And even
16:37
Speaker 1: the conservative people in the old days that believed there
16:40
Speaker 1: was a conspiracy really hoped they could somehow pin this
16:43
Speaker 1: on the Kremlin, and the liberals were hoping we're trying
16:48
Speaker 1: to rescue Oswald from the notion of him because they
16:51
Speaker 1: thought he was a communist, And they were trying to
16:54
Speaker 1: rescue him from this from this event because they thought
16:58
Speaker 1: he was a communist. So it it's been a very
17:01
Speaker 1: interesting journey.
17:02
Speaker 2: Yes, I bet, I think it's worth noting here for
17:05
Speaker 2: people that might not know it was it was Bush
17:09
Speaker 2: Senior that came up with the term conspiracy theorist, specifically
17:14
Speaker 2: to shut people up talking about this incident. And he
17:18
Speaker 2: was not only is a photograph I mean it's allegedly
17:23
Speaker 2: a photograph of him in Dallas on that day, but
17:28
Speaker 2: also he was working for the CIA at the time.
17:32
Speaker 3: Is that correct.
17:34
Speaker 1: It looks like he may have. So there was a
17:37
Speaker 1: memo in nineteen sixty seven the CIA came out with
17:41
Speaker 1: and they coined the term conspiracy dearist, and they were
17:45
Speaker 1: talking points to give to the press to refute the
17:49
Speaker 1: conspiracy articles. And they also were saying that nobody would
17:56
Speaker 1: you know, would use would turn to Oswald to be
17:59
Speaker 1: a to conspire with. There are questions about Bush Sr.
18:06
Speaker 1: I mean, he had an oil company, Zapota. Interesting name
18:10
Speaker 1: because that I think was the code name for the
18:12
Speaker 1: Bay of pigs and he had some connections. He definitely was.
18:17
Speaker 1: He was director of c i A under the Ford administration,
18:21
Speaker 1: so he you know, there is some belief that he
18:23
Speaker 1: had CIA connections before then, and there there is there
18:27
Speaker 1: is a memo that came up about someone writing a
18:31
Speaker 1: letter to a George Bush of the c i A.
18:33
Speaker 1: But the explanation was that was a clerk that wasn't
18:36
Speaker 1: the George H. W. Bush. It was a different George Bush.
18:40
Speaker 1: So you know, you take that with a grain of salt.
18:44
Speaker 1: And by the way, when when the president Bush, Bush
18:47
Speaker 1: Senior is the one that signed the JFK Records Act
18:50
Speaker 1: into law, and he had when he signed it into law,
18:55
Speaker 1: he basically wrote a he signed a statement, issued a
18:58
Speaker 1: statement saying that he was signing it because this was
19:01
Speaker 1: unanimously passed by Congress. But he believes it infringes on
19:05
Speaker 1: his constitutional prerogatives as president as commander in chief. So
19:10
Speaker 1: he kind of tried to say, I'm signing this, but
19:13
Speaker 1: it's not what you think it is.
19:16
Speaker 2: So, Larry, what is it about the Warren Commission that
19:21
Speaker 2: raised suspicion for you? And what what then is your
19:26
Speaker 2: take on what more likely happened?
19:30
Speaker 1: So My critique of the Warrant Commission has evolved over
19:34
Speaker 1: time as I matured and became a lawyer. So in
19:38
Speaker 1: the beginning, you know, I think my critiques were based
19:42
Speaker 1: on what I was reading, like from King Thompson and
19:45
Speaker 1: Mark Lane and others about the medical evidence and the
19:51
Speaker 1: timing and the single bullet theory, and then the witnesses
19:56
Speaker 1: that were not at and that were not interviewed, and
19:59
Speaker 1: then and the accounts of people saying that there that
20:05
Speaker 1: their testimony was changed. And then as it became a
20:08
Speaker 1: lawyer and became involved in investigations and stuff, I could
20:13
Speaker 1: see the weaknesses of how the investigation was conducted. I mean,
20:17
Speaker 1: it was a deliberate exercise. It wasn't like it was incompetence,
20:21
Speaker 1: but the way they distorted facts, they exaggerated facts, they
20:25
Speaker 1: misstated facts, the way they ignored certain witnesses, the way
20:29
Speaker 1: they conducted interviews and made sure that they would pursue
20:33
Speaker 1: a certain line of questions and not ask other questions,
20:36
Speaker 1: or they'd ignore answers and depositions that were inconvenient. And
20:42
Speaker 1: then of course you have Alan Dulles, the former CIA
20:47
Speaker 1: director and to be soon to be President Ford taking
20:52
Speaker 1: the deposition of John McCone, who was then the current
20:57
Speaker 1: CIA director and its assistant Helms, asking them about things
21:02
Speaker 1: that happened on the watch when Dulls was the CIA director,
21:07
Speaker 1: Like he was the wrong person to be asking those
21:09
Speaker 1: questions or asking him questions about what the CIA knew
21:12
Speaker 1: about Oswald when he was in Russia. Well, that happened
21:15
Speaker 1: when Doubles was a CIA director, So he's asking mcne
21:19
Speaker 1: questions about the answers that only he knew, and everything
21:23
Speaker 1: was fixed like that. Every black witness that went before
21:28
Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission, the first question they were asked was
21:32
Speaker 1: have you ever had any problems with law enforcement before,
21:35
Speaker 1: which in nineteen sixty four that was a loaded question
21:39
Speaker 1: in the Deep South. So the more I looked into
21:43
Speaker 1: how the Warrant Commission conducted its business once it, became
21:47
Speaker 1: a lawyer, So first I was suspicious about some of
21:50
Speaker 1: the conclusions, and then as I became a lawyer and
21:53
Speaker 1: you know, learned how to how investigations are conducted, I
21:58
Speaker 1: became even more dissatisfied with the effort. I mean, they
22:02
Speaker 1: clearly you know, this was a political this was political truth.
22:07
Speaker 1: This was designed to as much to assuage the concerns
22:11
Speaker 1: of our allies as it was for domestic consumption, because
22:15
Speaker 1: in Europe, Europe immediately assumed that Kennedy was killed by
22:18
Speaker 1: a right wing conspiracy. And you can see there's lots
22:22
Speaker 1: of cables coming from the State Department, you know, to
22:25
Speaker 1: Washington revealing what's going on in Europe, you know, in
22:29
Speaker 1: the UK, in France, in Italy, and of course the
22:33
Speaker 1: CiU was saying, well, this is the Russians trying to
22:36
Speaker 1: undermine America by fomenting disbelief in you know, what's going
22:41
Speaker 1: on in America. But the Warrant Commission wasn't much about
22:44
Speaker 1: trying to tell our allies, look, we're not a banana republic.
22:47
Speaker 1: This was a lone gunman. There was no right wing
22:50
Speaker 1: conspiracy to kill the president, and our policies are going
22:53
Speaker 1: to stay the same. So the Warrant Commission had multiple purposes.
22:58
Speaker 1: And then the House like Assassinations Committee got hijacked. You know,
23:02
Speaker 1: the first two people that were running it, Richard Sprague
23:05
Speaker 1: and Bob Tannebaum, were going to do a real serious investigation,
23:09
Speaker 1: and they ended up having to resign or the committee
23:13
Speaker 1: would have been disbanded. So I think Congress never thought
23:18
Speaker 1: these guys were actually going to conduct a real investigation.
23:20
Speaker 1: And when they started doing it, you know, the CIA
23:24
Speaker 1: circle the wagons. And then and with both the Warrant Commission,
23:29
Speaker 1: the hass Left Assassinations Committee, and the Assassination of Records
23:32
Speaker 1: Review Board, the bureaucrats knew they could wait out, they
23:36
Speaker 1: could run out the clock. They could just wait and
23:38
Speaker 1: delay install And because these bodies all were time limited,
23:43
Speaker 1: and so they knew if they just kept delaying and
23:45
Speaker 1: delaying installing, at some point these guys were going to
23:48
Speaker 1: go away and they could keep their secrets.
23:51
Speaker 2: So even with the release of these so called documents,
23:56
Speaker 2: from my understanding, it doesn't lead anywhere. I've seen much
24:00
Speaker 2: more credible documentaries on YouTube explaining everything that happened that day.
24:07
Speaker 2: And I guess the other thing we have to factor
24:10
Speaker 2: in is if there was a there was obviously a
24:13
Speaker 2: conspiracy to kill the president, that's you know, he didn't
24:16
Speaker 2: shoot himself. And then clearly with the fascical findings of
24:21
Speaker 2: the Warren Commission, if we can call them, that, people
24:25
Speaker 2: on the inside were perverting the course of justice for
24:29
Speaker 2: you know, whatever reason. I think human weakness is. Probably
24:34
Speaker 2: they were getting blackmailed or profited some way, or they'd
24:38
Speaker 2: been filmed doing something that they probably shouldn't have been doing.
24:42
Speaker 2: And so I guess what I'm saying is, I don't
24:45
Speaker 2: really hold out much hope, Larry, that anyone has any
24:49
Speaker 2: intention of letting the public know the truth. So that
24:55
Speaker 2: just leaves people like yourself to pull together everything which
25:00
Speaker 2: you have done. I'm going to show your archive here,
25:03
Speaker 2: which is extensive. Here, folks, I'll put a link below
25:07
Speaker 2: so you can you can go and check this out.
25:10
Speaker 2: I was listening to some of this earlier, So I
25:14
Speaker 2: guess I just want to talk a bit more grassroots
25:17
Speaker 2: for people at home that you want to hear about
25:20
Speaker 2: things going bang. So the Warrant Commission came up with
25:23
Speaker 2: a magic bullet theory?
25:26
Speaker 3: What do we think of that?
25:27
Speaker 1: They had to come up with a single bullet theory,
25:29
Speaker 1: which is also known as the magic bullet theory because
25:32
Speaker 1: there were supposedly three shots and it wasn't enough time
25:37
Speaker 1: to fire three individual shots. And first they tried to
25:41
Speaker 1: argue that one bullet hit the President and one bullet
25:45
Speaker 1: hit John Connolly and one missed. But then they had
25:48
Speaker 1: another bullet they discovered that hit this bystander, and now
25:52
Speaker 1: they had a problem. So it doesn't work for a
25:56
Speaker 1: number of reasons. And there is a Department of Justice
26:00
Speaker 1: attorney who full disclosure, I am working with him. He
26:06
Speaker 1: created this the most accurate three D recreation of daily
26:10
Speaker 1: Plaza using drones, photogrammetry scanning in all the photographs, taking
26:18
Speaker 1: into account the car, the height of everything, the high
26:23
Speaker 1: the seats, everything, and he has run He's used this
26:28
Speaker 1: animation to do a trajectory analysis from the school book
26:32
Speaker 1: depository building, using both ends of the time period when
26:37
Speaker 1: it was possible that a shot, if a shot went
26:40
Speaker 1: through both men, these are the end posts of when
26:44
Speaker 1: it was possible, and what that trajectory shows is that
26:48
Speaker 1: if a bullet had in fact gone through both men,
26:51
Speaker 1: it would have emerged from Connelly's belly button and probably
26:55
Speaker 1: circumcised him because of the angle. All the studies that
27:02
Speaker 1: were done, they have distorted the position of the bodies,
27:06
Speaker 1: They distorted the relative size of the bodies, their position
27:10
Speaker 1: in air, and so but the single bullet theory is
27:14
Speaker 1: necessary because there wasn't not enough time to fire three
27:18
Speaker 1: separate shots in six point five seconds. So it's a
27:24
Speaker 1: bolt action rifle. And even when the Warrant Commission tried
27:28
Speaker 1: to study the single bullet theory. All they did was
27:32
Speaker 1: test to see if a bullet can go through two men.
27:35
Speaker 1: They did not try to recreate the conditions on whether
27:40
Speaker 1: this was possible in terms of timing. And David Bellin,
27:43
Speaker 1: who was an attorney on the Warrant Commission, testified to
27:47
Speaker 1: this fact in nineteen seventy five when he appeared before
27:52
Speaker 1: basically a hearing that was largely lost to history. Bella Abzick,
27:57
Speaker 1: who was a congresswoman from New York, held a hearing
28:01
Speaker 1: on the on the Warrant Commission findings, and David Bellin testified.
28:06
Speaker 1: As it turns out, the Warren Commission actually had no
28:09
Speaker 1: authority to classify its records, and and David Bellen even
28:13
Speaker 1: admitted that that none of them had classification clearance, so
28:17
Speaker 1: they couldn't be even looking at classified documents, and it's
28:20
Speaker 1: much less being able to classify their own documents. So
28:23
Speaker 1: the single bullet theory is the necessary to support a
28:28
Speaker 1: single the single the loan gunman, because without without the
28:32
Speaker 1: single bullet theory, without the one bullet going through both
28:35
Speaker 1: men causing all the wounds, then you have to have
28:38
Speaker 1: a second gunman from the rear and then of course
28:41
Speaker 1: the next question is was Kennedy hitting the front of
28:44
Speaker 1: the head because of the way his head went back.
28:46
Speaker 1: And you know, there have been supporters of the Warren
28:50
Speaker 1: Commission to come up with the jet effect and some
28:52
Speaker 1: other junk science to try to argue that that that's
28:56
Speaker 1: really either a neuromuscular reaction or a physics reaction. So
29:03
Speaker 1: there's two problems with the conclusion. One is, there is
29:07
Speaker 1: potentially a shot from the front, and it would appear
29:09
Speaker 1: that the X rays on the autopsy would support there
29:14
Speaker 1: being a franchible bullet that would have hit the front
29:17
Speaker 1: of the head and fractured into thousands of bits, which
29:21
Speaker 1: is why it would not have you know, hit Jackie Kennedy,
29:24
Speaker 1: and then the bullet going through both men, you know,
29:28
Speaker 1: from the rear, and there actually was a guy. You know.
29:31
Speaker 1: There's been seven mock trials held by law schools and
29:34
Speaker 1: colleges since nineteen sixty seven. Six of them have resulted
29:38
Speaker 1: in acquittals or hung juries. In fact, the one I
29:42
Speaker 1: was involved in twenty seventeen, we got a hung jury
29:45
Speaker 1: and that was only giving us two and a half
29:47
Speaker 1: hours to defend Oswald. The rest of the day was
29:50
Speaker 1: about the head, the medical evidence and whether it was
29:53
Speaker 1: a shot from the front. In the nineteen ninety two
29:57
Speaker 1: mock trial I was conducted by the American Barsass They
30:00
Speaker 1: had a company failure analysis and the CEO of that
30:04
Speaker 1: company did an experiment firing a frangic bullet into a
30:10
Speaker 1: large bucket of a plastic jug of water. And what
30:14
Speaker 1: he learned was that when the franchial bullet hits, all
30:17
Speaker 1: the energy is dissipated upon impact, and like none of
30:20
Speaker 1: the particles went through the plastic, none of the parts
30:22
Speaker 1: of it went through the other side of the plastic jug.
30:25
Speaker 1: So if Kennedy was hit by a franchial bullet, all
30:29
Speaker 1: the energy would have been dissipated upon the impact, which
30:32
Speaker 1: would of course, you know, they had to go back
30:33
Speaker 1: and then all the fragments. You had the fragment trail
30:36
Speaker 1: on the front of the body, they had front the head,
30:38
Speaker 1: which is what the X ray show.
30:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where it gets confusing. Have Larry, have
30:43
Speaker 2: you ever or conflicting, I should say, have you ever
30:47
Speaker 2: seen the documentary Everything is a rich Man's trick?
30:51
Speaker 1: I have not.
30:53
Speaker 2: Oh, it's fascinating. So everything's a rich man's trick. It's
30:58
Speaker 2: this somewhat senior gentleman. Let's say, who's just sat in
31:02
Speaker 2: his armchair narrating everything from I don't know like Bayer
31:08
Speaker 2: pigs JFK up up until I think nine to eleven.
31:11
Speaker 2: And I don't know where he gets his information from
31:15
Speaker 2: because he's not quoting his sources. It's just a document,
31:19
Speaker 2: you know. He's talking to the camera.
31:20
Speaker 3: But in a.
31:22
Speaker 2: Nutshell he posits that there was a meeting the night
31:26
Speaker 2: before LBJ, mafia, Cuban interests, all this kind of thing,
31:34
Speaker 2: that on the day there was anything up to I
31:38
Speaker 2: think eleven snipers. I might have that wrong, it might
31:42
Speaker 2: be six, but it's certainly a lot more than what
31:44
Speaker 2: we've been led to believe. That the umbrella man, the
31:47
Speaker 2: guy with the umbrella, was the signal guy. And the
31:51
Speaker 2: reason he puts the umbrella up, even though it's bright sunlight,
31:55
Speaker 2: is he signaled that the first shots have missed or
31:59
Speaker 2: they they've hit the president, that they haven't taken him out.
32:02
Speaker 2: He puts the umbrella up. That's the signal for the
32:05
Speaker 2: guy in the storm drain, which is underneath the underpass,
32:09
Speaker 2: and the guy's crawled half a mile up that storm drain.
32:13
Speaker 2: In fact, he went back to work covered in mess
32:17
Speaker 2: and his employer, because of the suspiciousness of it all,
32:21
Speaker 2: called the police, who came and arrested him and then
32:24
Speaker 2: released him without charge. But his signal was the umbrella
32:28
Speaker 2: going up, which is why he shot the president from
32:31
Speaker 2: the front. Now, as if this isn't sort of eye
32:35
Speaker 2: opening enough and relatively plausible, it goes further because there's
32:41
Speaker 2: a chat I'm just going to show a photo and
32:43
Speaker 2: called JD. Tippett, And I'm sure you probably know more
32:50
Speaker 2: about him than me. But in this documentary, Larry, they
32:54
Speaker 2: put forward that because they needed to show a shot
32:57
Speaker 2: from the back to support the book depository lehih the
33:00
Speaker 2: Oswald scenario. They shot an innocent policeman in Dallas whose
33:06
Speaker 2: name was JD. Tippitt this chap here, folks, and his
33:10
Speaker 2: nickname was JFK. Because he had this uncanny likeness to JFK.
33:17
Speaker 2: And indeed he's you know, he's not quite the spitting image,
33:20
Speaker 2: but he's certainly a handsome guy that could could be
33:24
Speaker 2: taken for him. And what they did is they brought
33:29
Speaker 2: in one of the guessing, a sort of mafia associate
33:33
Speaker 2: who was a top surgeon. They they performed the necessary
33:39
Speaker 2: plastic surgery on JD. Tippitt to support the theory of
33:43
Speaker 2: the Oswald basically, And don't ask me, I can't. I
33:50
Speaker 2: can't remember how JD. Tippitt was shot, but I think
33:53
Speaker 2: he was the officer that they then blamed on Oswald
33:58
Speaker 2: after the after the cinema a, right, But it wasn't Oswald,
34:01
Speaker 2: it was it was the you know whoever this dark
34:05
Speaker 2: network were. And what they then had to do was
34:09
Speaker 2: swap the cadavers over while the coffin was on Air
34:15
Speaker 2: Force one, which is why they called Jackie Kennedy Ford
34:20
Speaker 2: for the swearing in of LBJ. And here's the thing.
34:25
Speaker 2: The swearing in ceremony was made up, obviously, because he's
34:28
Speaker 2: already president. The president's dead, he's vice president, so he's
34:33
Speaker 2: automatically president. There's no you know, there's no sort of
34:36
Speaker 2: swearing in. But what they needed to do was get
34:39
Speaker 2: Jackie Kennedy away from the coffin because she wouldn't leave
34:43
Speaker 2: her husband's, her late husband's side, to swap these these
34:47
Speaker 2: cadavers over. And I know that probably sounds utterly bizarre
34:53
Speaker 2: to people out there, but I think it's certainly there's
34:57
Speaker 2: certainly the way that this documentary puts h cross makes
35:01
Speaker 2: it seem a lot more plausible than the than the
35:05
Speaker 2: magic magic bullet bullet theory.
35:08
Speaker 1: Well, I'm familiar with those theories and in fact the
35:13
Speaker 1: the body switch. So there's an interest in Doug Hornett,
35:16
Speaker 1: who I really respect. He was one of these guys.
35:19
Speaker 1: He was one of the people that worked on the
35:21
Speaker 1: on the House Look Assassination committee, did excellent work. He's
35:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I love him to you know, to to
35:29
Speaker 1: the dear end I mean, and he's a strong advocate
35:33
Speaker 1: of like the three casket scenario that three caskets were
35:38
Speaker 1: delivered to Bethes the Naval Hospital that night. And he
35:42
Speaker 1: just dropped a new a new video this week where
35:47
Speaker 1: he discovered photographs showing both a black limp of black
35:54
Speaker 1: and a gray ambulance, two separate ones. Chris, the timing
35:58
Speaker 1: for the black one is you don't know exactly when
36:01
Speaker 1: it was, and the gray one you can pretty much
36:05
Speaker 1: you can see people putting the coffin into the carrying
36:07
Speaker 1: it into the desta. But what I will say is
36:10
Speaker 1: on the coffin situation, yes, Jackie Kennedy went to the
36:15
Speaker 1: front of the plane for the ceremonial swearing in of
36:20
Speaker 1: the president. But there is testimony like by Kevin Old,
36:23
Speaker 1: Kevin Old, Kevin O'Donnell, who was the president's aide and
36:27
Speaker 1: was the one sitting in the car, the backup car,
36:30
Speaker 1: that he he didn't go up front and he never
36:33
Speaker 1: took his eyes off the coffin. So, you know, I've
36:36
Speaker 1: tried to find an opportunity where this could happen, and
36:39
Speaker 1: I can't. It requires someone to be lying about their
36:45
Speaker 1: their ability to that that that they were, you know,
36:48
Speaker 1: with the coffin and so but I'm familiar with those
36:52
Speaker 1: theories and I and I'm familiar with you know, there
36:55
Speaker 1: is testimony they supposedly the this House selects the House
37:00
Speaker 1: like Assassinations Committee found the guy with the umbrella, and
37:05
Speaker 1: he claimed he was doing a Chamberlain thing, that he
37:09
Speaker 1: was using the umbrellas as a subtle dig at Kennedy
37:13
Speaker 1: using you know, Chamberlain had that umbrella and he was
37:17
Speaker 1: trying to say that, you know, Kennedy was a was
37:21
Speaker 1: an appeaser. So it's, uh, you know, people have theories
37:26
Speaker 1: and then some they're they're interesting. I have to follow
37:30
Speaker 1: the evidence, and I try to follow the evidence, and
37:32
Speaker 1: I try to evaluate the evidence and and I do
37:37
Speaker 1: think there was a conspiracy. I think there were two men,
37:39
Speaker 1: two shooters in the back, possibly one in the front.
37:44
Speaker 1: Whether there were eight shots fired or eleven, I don't know.
37:47
Speaker 1: I will never be able to determine that. You know,
37:51
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence was destroyed, and and they cleaned
37:54
Speaker 1: out the limo, and while the president's body was inside
37:58
Speaker 1: of Parkland Hospital, they were washing out some of the
38:02
Speaker 1: blood and stuff, and so we have an incompletely, we
38:05
Speaker 1: have a tampered crime scene. And then of course the
38:07
Speaker 1: autopsy wasn't done properly. So there's lots of questions that
38:10
Speaker 1: are never going to be answered, unfortunately. And you have
38:13
Speaker 1: to kind of say a lot of people will come
38:16
Speaker 1: up with this phrase Ocom's razor to try to say
38:20
Speaker 1: the simplest explanation is the one that makes for the
38:23
Speaker 1: most sense. But that's not what Oham's razor says. Okham's
38:27
Speaker 1: race stands for the proposition that among equally plausible arguments,
38:33
Speaker 1: the simplest one is usually the correct one. It's not
38:36
Speaker 1: just the simplest one is usually the correct one. They
38:38
Speaker 1: have to have equally plausible and that's where a lot
38:42
Speaker 1: of the conspirat the lone Gunman supporters come up with
38:47
Speaker 1: a look. When we did the mock trial, there is
38:49
Speaker 1: more evidence of Oswald being elsewhere at twelve thirty than
38:54
Speaker 1: on the sixth floor of the school book depository. Jesse
38:59
Speaker 1: Curry was one of the policemen, not the sheriff, but
39:05
Speaker 1: he was maybe police chief. He later said, this is
39:09
Speaker 1: the Dallas Police often chief. Jesse Curry said that nobody
39:15
Speaker 1: could put a gun in Oswald's hand to twelve thirty
39:18
Speaker 1: on the sixth floor. So, first of all, you have
39:21
Speaker 1: real difficulties about whether Oswald actually was a shooter or not.
39:25
Speaker 1: I personally don't think that he was a shooter. Now,
39:28
Speaker 1: he may have been involved in a plot that was
39:31
Speaker 1: different than what actually happened. I think he might have
39:34
Speaker 1: thought that there was going to be a demonstration and
39:38
Speaker 1: that his job, you know, he was, like I think
39:40
Speaker 1: that he was. His job was to look like a
39:44
Speaker 1: pro Castro sympathizer in order to flesh out or flesh
39:48
Speaker 1: out the Castro agents that are infiltrating the Cuban exile groups.
39:54
Speaker 1: When he was handing out flyers in New Orleans, I
39:57
Speaker 1: think that was an attempt first to make looked like
40:00
Speaker 1: a communist for the for the plotters. But I think
40:02
Speaker 1: he thought that he was helping to to find who
40:06
Speaker 1: was the cause, because Castro always seemed to know when
40:09
Speaker 1: there was going to be a raid, and so you know,
40:13
Speaker 1: they were finding out about these raids before they were launched,
40:17
Speaker 1: and so there was the Cuban exile groups were were
40:20
Speaker 1: infiltrated with Castro agents and so I think that was
40:23
Speaker 1: his job. His job was to find out who these
40:26
Speaker 1: people were. And so he's posing as a pro Castro
40:29
Speaker 1: supporter and perhaps on the day the assassination, he thought
40:34
Speaker 1: there was going to be some demonstration and then when
40:37
Speaker 1: he realized when he heard we realized the president was shot,
40:39
Speaker 1: and went, oh, you know, oh crap. And then he
40:42
Speaker 1: went to his assigned uh rendezvous point, which was the theater,
40:48
Speaker 1: and that's that's what they captured him. And uh, I
40:51
Speaker 1: think Carlos Marcello, the New Orleans mafia chief, who was
40:56
Speaker 1: actually on trial that week for frauding the government with
41:01
Speaker 1: his birth his Guatemala birth certificate, and had he been
41:05
Speaker 1: found guilty, they would have deported him. I think he
41:08
Speaker 1: probably paid for the operation.
41:11
Speaker 2: Now.
41:11
Speaker 1: He also his territory included Texas and he he you know,
41:17
Speaker 1: he gave LBJ fifty grand a year. He paid off
41:19
Speaker 1: fifty grand a year to LBJ. So he had his
41:22
Speaker 1: tentacles and everything, and Jim Garrison didn't go after him
41:25
Speaker 1: because Jim Garrison, I think was compromised by Corlos, Marcello
41:29
Speaker 1: and Hoover, the chief law enforcement executive or at least
41:34
Speaker 1: the head of the FBI. He was getting he had
41:38
Speaker 1: a problem with the ponies, you know, like he liked
41:41
Speaker 1: to race, to bet on the racing horses, and he
41:44
Speaker 1: was getting tips from Frank Costello the mafia. They had
41:48
Speaker 1: the Mafia in New York on fixed races, so they
41:52
Speaker 1: knew that they had him by the short hairs. He
41:54
Speaker 1: wasn't going to investigate, let the investigation go towards the mafia.
41:58
Speaker 1: So I think the guys that helped organize the assassination
42:02
Speaker 1: attempts against Castro in the Miami CIA office probably planned it.
42:08
Speaker 1: I think Marcella probably paid for it, and then they
42:10
Speaker 1: used the exiles or the shooters that were being trained
42:14
Speaker 1: to kill Castro probably were used to kill Kennedy. So
42:17
Speaker 1: it's a complex conspiracy. Because the mafia could not control
42:23
Speaker 1: the autopsy, there had to be somebody else to be
42:26
Speaker 1: able to control the autopsy to make sure that it
42:29
Speaker 1: went in a certain direction. And you know, simplest question
42:32
Speaker 1: is you have people that are government workers who are
42:36
Speaker 1: basically told that they have to keep shut them out,
42:38
Speaker 1: shut or they're going to lose their pension and potentially
42:41
Speaker 1: go to court martial. That usually enough to keep people
42:44
Speaker 1: on the straight and narrow. And I believe that Humes,
42:49
Speaker 1: who was the autopsy doctor, and Boswell, I believe they
42:52
Speaker 1: were promoted almost immediately, and then Humes retired the next year.
42:57
Speaker 1: He retired at a much higher salary, will get paid off,
43:01
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely. And an LBJ. I don't know whether
43:05
Speaker 1: LBJ had four knowledge. You know, I would want to
43:10
Speaker 1: see a little more evidence before I would publicly accuse
43:15
Speaker 1: a former president of conspiring to kill a president just
43:20
Speaker 1: because that's the way I am. I mean, I think
43:22
Speaker 1: I can make a case out right now that Marcello
43:25
Speaker 1: Traficante and Jimmy Hoffa conspired to try to kill the president.
43:30
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that they're the ones that did. I'm
43:32
Speaker 1: just saying that I could make a case out. I
43:34
Speaker 1: could go into court and make a case out that
43:36
Speaker 1: they engage in a conspiracy to commit you know this
43:40
Speaker 1: unlawful act. I don't have enough evidence yet to say
43:44
Speaker 1: LBJ did that. I mean to me, if I'm LBJ
43:49
Speaker 1: and I want to get rid of Kennedy, I would
43:51
Speaker 1: have my buddy Hoover release all the dirt that Hoover
43:55
Speaker 1: had on the Kennedys in nineteen sixty four. That would
43:58
Speaker 1: be my choice of trying to damage John Kennedy because
44:01
Speaker 1: Hoover had all the dirt on Kennedy's affairs and everything else,
44:05
Speaker 1: and so that would that would have been my route
44:08
Speaker 1: if and LBJ was a pretty shrue guy, I wouldn't
44:11
Speaker 1: have to resort to arranging for a murder and then
44:14
Speaker 1: potentially being subject to a firing squad. But you know,
44:18
Speaker 1: but he clearly was involved in the cover up for sure.
44:22
Speaker 1: I just don't have enough information yet to to say
44:26
Speaker 1: that he was. He had for knowledge, Well, there's foreign
44:30
Speaker 1: knowledge and then there's actual participation. It's hard for me
44:34
Speaker 1: to think that a vice president would would actually engage
44:37
Speaker 1: in a conspiracy to plan to kill the sitting president.
44:42
Speaker 1: Now he might have for knowledge, that's possible that he
44:44
Speaker 1: may knew that something was coming and chose not to
44:46
Speaker 1: say anything. So there's you know, there's different levels when
44:49
Speaker 1: they when people say, oh, the mafia did it or
44:51
Speaker 1: WJ did it, what does that mean? Right, It's like
44:54
Speaker 1: they didn't actually pull the triggers. So what was What
44:58
Speaker 1: role did they play? And could have been a financial role,
45:01
Speaker 1: it could have been a planning role. So but clearly
45:04
Speaker 1: the American policy changed from that moment on. The country
45:09
Speaker 1: went in a separate direction, and you know, and lessons
45:13
Speaker 1: were learned from that. I mean, we had the Gulf
45:15
Speaker 1: of Tonkien after that to get us into Vietnam, and
45:18
Speaker 1: then they learned they collide and get away with it,
45:21
Speaker 1: and we had the Iran Contra Wartergate war. Togate involved
45:26
Speaker 1: some of the same Cubans that were involved at the
45:29
Speaker 1: Vea Pigs. And you know, it's interesting when when the
45:33
Speaker 1: when the Assassination and Records Review Board asked for the
45:37
Speaker 1: Secret Service for records on their threat assessments against the
45:40
Speaker 1: president in the fall sixty three, they destroyed the records
45:44
Speaker 1: and nobody got punished. Lo and behold, when January sixth
45:50
Speaker 1: happens and the Secret Services asked for their emails, they're
45:53
Speaker 1: destroyed and no one gets punished. And you know, as
45:57
Speaker 1: long as people can continue to misbehave and not get
46:00
Speaker 1: punished for breaking the law. This is going to continue.
46:04
Speaker 1: And I could also point this stuff that the Democrats
46:06
Speaker 1: have done as well, and not just you know, blaming
46:09
Speaker 1: one side here. But you know, when I tell young
46:13
Speaker 1: people that this is not purely a historic event, I
46:16
Speaker 1: mean when I was the Kennedy assassination to kids in
46:20
Speaker 1: high school, now it was the equivalent of World War
46:24
Speaker 1: One to when I was in high school. So you know,
46:27
Speaker 1: it's a historic event to them, but it's still affecting
46:31
Speaker 1: American politics, and because there are policy decisions that were
46:35
Speaker 1: made and also that people learned they could lie and
46:39
Speaker 1: get away with it. And the weird thing is, you know,
46:43
Speaker 1: when you know people in power, you hear little stories.
46:46
Speaker 1: There's whispers and they will say things like, for example,
46:50
Speaker 1: this is I'm a co host of JFK Fax with
46:53
Speaker 1: Jeff Morley, and last week we had this guy on
46:56
Speaker 1: as a Frenchman, Bernard, I forget his name, it's his
47:02
Speaker 1: last name, but he his family had like one of
47:05
Speaker 1: the first banks in France and he he he, you know,
47:09
Speaker 1: he mingled with all with de gaul on other people,
47:12
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination. And
47:15
Speaker 1: when he was first, when he was writing it, he
47:17
Speaker 1: had five French publishers chasing him for the book. And
47:20
Speaker 1: then when he's finished, suddenly nobody wants to publish it.
47:24
Speaker 1: And he asked one of the publishers, why is that
47:27
Speaker 1: this is last year, right, And he's told by his
47:30
Speaker 1: friend at the publisher we got instructions from high up
47:34
Speaker 1: not to publish a book that says that the president
47:38
Speaker 1: of the United States was killed by his own government,
47:42
Speaker 1: because that would help putin I mean, that's the kind
47:45
Speaker 1: of thinking that's going on. And then he said that
47:49
Speaker 1: when I forget which of the French premiers it was,
47:52
Speaker 1: it wasn't Miterran. But somebody was meeting with Jerry Ford,
47:57
Speaker 1: and they asked Jerry Ford, who had been on the
47:59
Speaker 1: warrant committe, and this is now and Jerry Ford's president,
48:02
Speaker 1: you know what happened? And Jerry Ford told him there
48:05
Speaker 1: was a conspiracy, but we couldn't prove it. And this person,
48:10
Speaker 1: this Bernard, is friends with a person who overheard that conversation.
48:14
Speaker 1: So there's these whispers like in official officialdom, they'll they'll
48:19
Speaker 1: whisper to each other what they know, but they won't
48:22
Speaker 1: tell the whole world what they know, because, as as
48:26
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson said in the movie A Few Brave Men,
48:29
Speaker 1: we can't take the truth.
48:32
Speaker 2: Yes, so Larry, let's just take the Israel angle. Then
48:39
Speaker 2: I was just highlighting your It was John Hamer, wasn't
48:44
Speaker 2: it that you mentioned? Was not the name of the
48:47
Speaker 2: chap that you said was a good friend of yours.
48:49
Speaker 2: I thought you said, John Hamer, there's a there's.
48:52
Speaker 1: A Jeff Morley, who's my co host on JFK fax.
48:56
Speaker 2: A right, Okay, I might have got that wrong. Uh,
49:00
Speaker 2: it just came across a book though, by John Hamer saying,
49:08
Speaker 2: no doubt the assassination. I've just showed our friends at home,
49:12
Speaker 2: no doubt the assassination was a result of an extensive,
49:16
Speaker 2: highly organized, and coordinated, joint campaign of necessity involving almost
49:24
Speaker 2: every element of the American establishment and to a lesser extent, Israel,
49:30
Speaker 2: directed by the forces of the British crown. Does that
49:34
Speaker 2: bear any merit?
49:37
Speaker 1: I am very dubious that. So when you look back
49:42
Speaker 1: at history, you look at an event and it happened,
49:45
Speaker 1: so it seems like it's a certainty that it would happen, right,
49:49
Speaker 1: But in fact, a lot of things could have gone
49:51
Speaker 1: wrong and it could not have happened. I can't imagine
49:55
Speaker 1: that Israel in nineteen sixty three would plot to kill
49:59
Speaker 1: the leader of its most important and sometimes only ally.
50:04
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense to me. Now, did Angleton,
50:09
Speaker 1: Did James Angleton, our counterintelligence person at the CIA, have
50:13
Speaker 1: close relations with Massad?
50:16
Speaker 3: Yes?
50:16
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, did he use Massad for some things? Yes,
50:21
Speaker 1: But I just that kind of claim to me require
50:25
Speaker 1: that's an extraordinary claim to me, and I think that
50:28
Speaker 1: requires extraordinary evidence. So uh, if someone presents me with
50:32
Speaker 1: some evidence, I'll consider it. But that doesn't I don't
50:37
Speaker 1: see Israel plotting to kill President Kennedy. I know there's
50:41
Speaker 1: the argument that he didn't want Israel to have nuclear weapons,
50:45
Speaker 1: but Israel is has the strongest lobby in this country,
50:51
Speaker 1: So I can't imagine they would resort to murdering a president,
50:57
Speaker 1: you know, their most important allies. So that's just that's
50:59
Speaker 1: just my got reaction. Again. But you know, show me
51:03
Speaker 1: some evidence that I might change my mind. But we
51:06
Speaker 1: ever so often we get somebody that comes on JFK
51:09
Speaker 1: Fax podcast and you know, tries to argue about Israel,
51:13
Speaker 1: and we let them talk but I haven't heard anything
51:15
Speaker 1: yet that's you know, that's persuasive. I don't know anything
51:20
Speaker 1: about Britain. I know that, you know, when Philby got
51:23
Speaker 1: taken down, that definitely shattered Angleton because Philby and Angleton
51:29
Speaker 1: were very close and and you know that, you know,
51:33
Speaker 1: Angleton shared everything with Philby, so uh, he was a
51:38
Speaker 1: shattered man at that point. Did he get you know,
51:40
Speaker 1: I don't know what what effect it had on his
51:43
Speaker 1: I presume it had his affected his ability to carry
51:46
Speaker 1: out his duties. I don't know whether I know that
51:50
Speaker 1: this guy's in the CIA, that the leadership of the
51:53
Speaker 1: CIA felt that they had as much or right to
51:58
Speaker 1: to share the foreign policy of the United States as
52:03
Speaker 1: the constitutionally elected president. In fact, one of the records
52:07
Speaker 1: that came out that was really interesting that's gotten some
52:11
Speaker 1: attention but not enough, is after the Bay of Pigs,
52:14
Speaker 1: President Kennedy asked Arthur Slessinger to come up with proposals
52:20
Speaker 1: to reform the CIA, And for sixty years there were
52:25
Speaker 1: two pages that were completely blacked out, and they finally
52:29
Speaker 1: got unredacted in March. And what it turns out was
52:33
Speaker 1: that Arthur Sesssinger was telling President Kennedy that forty eight
52:38
Speaker 1: percent of the staff of our embassies across the world
52:42
Speaker 1: were actually CIA employees. Now, we always used to make
52:46
Speaker 1: fun of the Kremlin of the Russians that their embassies
52:50
Speaker 1: were basically, you know, nests of KGB agents, but that
52:55
Speaker 1: was the same case for US. Forty eight percent. That
52:57
Speaker 1: the entire top floor of the of our embassy in
53:01
Speaker 1: Paris was all CIA, and that Slessenger said, the CIA
53:06
Speaker 1: was a state within a state, and they oftentimes had
53:09
Speaker 1: better relations with our foreign governments, our allies, than the
53:13
Speaker 1: State Department did. So this was what they were trying
53:16
Speaker 1: to hide all these years that you know, Kennedy was
53:19
Speaker 1: trying to fix.
53:21
Speaker 2: It.
53:21
Speaker 1: Even came out that somebody bugged the office of the
53:26
Speaker 1: CIA director. Say, I don't know if this happens in
53:30
Speaker 1: the UK, So you know, here this is like all
53:34
Speaker 1: news to us, I mean, you know, so you know,
53:40
Speaker 1: there definitely was a power struggle going on about the
53:44
Speaker 1: direction of foreign policy in the United States in the
53:46
Speaker 1: early nineteen sixties. John Kennedy was definitely trying to take
53:49
Speaker 1: us down a road that was different from the traditional
53:53
Speaker 1: Cold War approach, and there was lots of resistance. There
53:56
Speaker 1: was a Secret Service agent who was the person that
54:03
Speaker 1: tried to intimidate and did intimidate doctor Perry in the
54:07
Speaker 1: changing his view that the throat wound was an entry
54:10
Speaker 1: wound into an exit wound. And he was talking he
54:16
Speaker 1: was trying to recruit somebody years later at a college
54:20
Speaker 1: kid to be an undercover agent, and they were talking
54:24
Speaker 1: about the Kennedy assassination, and he said that the old man,
54:28
Speaker 1: Joe Kennedy was an appeaser and John Kennedy was a trader.
54:32
Speaker 1: That's the way they thought of him because he was
54:34
Speaker 1: trying to you know, do you know the story about
54:38
Speaker 1: the back channel with Castro? So I know we're going
54:42
Speaker 1: over time. Sorry, I'll finish with this story. So Lisa Howard,
54:46
Speaker 1: who is the first prime time newswoman, and she really
54:52
Speaker 1: I don't know why she hasn't gotten as much. She
54:54
Speaker 1: should really be acclaimed for her role as a woman's reporter,
54:59
Speaker 1: but she wasn't. But anyway, she interviewed Castro in May
55:03
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty three and Castro tells her off offline
55:09
Speaker 1: that he would like to explore normalizing relations with the US.
55:13
Speaker 1: He was pissed about the way the missile crisis ended,
55:16
Speaker 1: and he was disgruntled with the Russians, and he just
55:19
Speaker 1: was thinking of you know, he was thinking maybe there's
55:21
Speaker 1: a way to reconcile. And she goes and tells the
55:25
Speaker 1: Kennedy administration. They're not interested initially, and then in September
55:28
Speaker 1: of sixty three, she has a party at her house
55:32
Speaker 1: and she has Bill Atwood, who's one of our envoys
55:35
Speaker 1: to the UN. She puts him in a room, her
55:37
Speaker 1: bedroom with this guy Luega from Cuba who's Castro's right
55:42
Speaker 1: hand person, and they're talking about is there a way
55:45
Speaker 1: to kind of for our countries to kind of talk
55:48
Speaker 1: explore about explore this and that would then reports back
55:52
Speaker 1: to the president and he tells in but the CIA
55:55
Speaker 1: is against this, and I'm convinced that they told the
55:58
Speaker 1: exiles about this. Anyway, a French reporter is going to
56:03
Speaker 1: be interviewing Castro in November sixty three, and so at
56:08
Speaker 1: What arranges to have him speak to President Kennedy. And
56:10
Speaker 1: so President Kennedy meets him in the Oval Office and
56:13
Speaker 1: he gives a message to Castro. Basically he acknowledges all
56:17
Speaker 1: the bad things that the United States has done to Cuba,
56:20
Speaker 1: and that you know, if Castro's willing to give up communism.
56:24
Speaker 1: There could be a path forward. Jean Danielle is meeting
56:28
Speaker 1: with Castro the day of the assassination. They're having lunch
56:31
Speaker 1: and Castle gets the call the President's been shot. How bad,
56:35
Speaker 1: don't know? Hangs up. Twenty minutes later, President's dead. Castle
56:39
Speaker 1: turns to Jehan Danielle and says, your peace mission is
56:43
Speaker 1: just ended. And Jean Danielle wrote about this. This there's
56:47
Speaker 1: a book that Peter go Gordon Bluth has written that
56:52
Speaker 1: documents this. This is a documented fact. But there was
56:55
Speaker 1: Kennedy was taking this country in a different direction, and
56:59
Speaker 1: I think there were forces within his country did not
57:03
Speaker 1: want to go in that direction. And on top of that,
57:07
Speaker 1: you know, Bobby Kennedy was cracking down on the mafia.
57:10
Speaker 1: The old man had cut a deal with the mafia
57:13
Speaker 1: and to try to get him elected. And Carls Marcello
57:18
Speaker 1: had been deported to Guatemala the first couple of months
57:21
Speaker 1: of the assassination of the administration, and he was you know,
57:24
Speaker 1: he was a trial. He actually bribed he bribed a juror,
57:29
Speaker 1: and so he was found not guilty an hour before
57:36
Speaker 1: President Kennedy, but no an hour after President Kennedy was killed,
57:39
Speaker 1: but he didn't learn about it about President Kennedy being
57:41
Speaker 1: killed until right after the verdict. But he clearly had
57:45
Speaker 1: motives as well. So plenty of people had motives, and
57:48
Speaker 1: we're trying to get a little more some more of
57:50
Speaker 1: the pieces of the puzzle put together.
57:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to go back to the Israel
57:55
Speaker 2: thing because people listening will get cross with me if
57:58
Speaker 2: I don't flag it up. I think when JFK gave
58:03
Speaker 2: that speech and he talks about a dark, monolithic conspiracy
58:07
Speaker 2: that operates by covert means, that's, you know, essentially infiltrated
58:12
Speaker 2: the fabric of very honest country America, I think he
58:17
Speaker 2: was talking about the dark business interests that used Israel
58:22
Speaker 2: as their front company with which to hide behind to
58:26
Speaker 2: I don't know, conduct their new World Order as it's
58:29
Speaker 2: referred to.
58:31
Speaker 3: I think.
58:34
Speaker 2: His assassination itself has just got Mossad written all over it,
58:38
Speaker 2: although you know, they're not the only people that conduct
58:41
Speaker 2: the art of war.
58:43
Speaker 3: What is it? They call it war by deception or something?
58:47
Speaker 1: We are you saying? So are people thinking that that
58:50
Speaker 1: Massad was used to take the president down or that
58:54
Speaker 1: this was a policy of this was like a policy.
58:58
Speaker 1: It's one thing to say that we're going to use
59:00
Speaker 1: use massad agents to try to pull off our own policy, right,
59:05
Speaker 1: as opposed to as being a policy of Israel.
59:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it's the easier way to
59:11
Speaker 2: look at it is to look at the other end,
59:13
Speaker 2: to see how things have panned out. Because nobody took
59:17
Speaker 2: the president's word seriously. Subsequently, we had I don't want
59:22
Speaker 2: to say that the number. We had a certain set
59:24
Speaker 2: of events in New York and Washington twenty years ago
59:27
Speaker 2: which made the world sit up and realize, Ah, unfortunately
59:32
Speaker 2: half the world's asleep, so they don't look further than
59:34
Speaker 2: the CNN broadcast in London. We had not on such
59:40
Speaker 2: a magnitude, but we had similar horrific atrocities.
59:44
Speaker 3: We've now got the absolute ough.
59:49
Speaker 2: For want of a better word, the devastation of our
59:52
Speaker 2: youth who now are born, you know, the born male,
59:56
Speaker 2: but they're told in school, well, you can just choose
59:58
Speaker 2: to be a female and will pay to start cutting
1:00:01
Speaker 2: your bits off, which personally I just think is satanic.
1:00:06
Speaker 2: And it took me fifty I'm fifty five now I'm
1:00:09
Speaker 2: still not responsible enough to make decisions about my body
1:00:13
Speaker 2: or my sexuality. Give me another fifty years, I might
1:00:17
Speaker 2: be about there. To think that they're taking six year
1:00:20
Speaker 2: olds and ten year olds, you know, at their word,
1:00:24
Speaker 2: And I think, I think it's all by design, Larry,
1:00:29
Speaker 2: I honestly do. I think people now are so far
1:00:32
Speaker 2: away from God and spirit. They so much sold on materialism.
1:00:38
Speaker 2: They're so desperately lost and seeking some kind of answers,
1:00:43
Speaker 2: but they've only ever been taught the material root of things.
1:00:50
Speaker 2: So more tattoos, more Instagram accounts, more social media. Oh,
1:00:55
Speaker 2: if I have three ferraris, maybe the girls will like
1:00:58
Speaker 2: me and any of of any age. Noe, None of
1:01:01
Speaker 2: that stuff makes you happy. What makes you happy is
1:01:03
Speaker 2: having a connection with whatever you call this big experiment,
1:01:07
Speaker 2: whether that's God, Nature, spirit. And I really do think
1:01:13
Speaker 2: that JFK saw this, these dark forces in play. He
1:01:17
Speaker 2: saw that they network incredibly. He saw that they probably
1:01:21
Speaker 2: operate through how can we say, esoteric method, going back
1:01:28
Speaker 2: perhaps to ancient Egypt Babylon, using numbers and symbols instead
1:01:35
Speaker 2: of you know, the word, the word of mouth that
1:01:38
Speaker 2: we we all believe is the only way to communicate.
1:01:41
Speaker 3: And and yeah.
1:01:44
Speaker 2: I think amongst all the other stuff, he was making
1:01:47
Speaker 2: himself unpopular about.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: Well, it's not that that we humans are built to
1:01:53
Speaker 1: worship something right. And I mean, you know, the pastor
1:01:58
Speaker 1: of my church, I mean, I'm my father was Jewish,
1:02:01
Speaker 1: but my mother was Italian and I ended up going
1:02:03
Speaker 1: to a uh a Protestant church and Tim Keller was
1:02:09
Speaker 1: our minister who's a famous pastor, very intellectual, and he
1:02:15
Speaker 1: said that we are built to worship, and whether it's
1:02:18
Speaker 1: materialism or something else, we will, you know, we will
1:02:23
Speaker 1: pursue that thing that we worship to make ourselves feel
1:02:26
Speaker 1: good about ourselves. And it's and in today's world, uh,
1:02:31
Speaker 1: you know, it's just there's so many distractions. You know.
1:02:34
Speaker 1: I when we're talking about Mickey Mannel before, I was
1:02:37
Speaker 1: joking with you that, you know, I didn't know that.
1:02:40
Speaker 1: You know, when I was a kid, we had people
1:02:44
Speaker 1: that we had these fictions about our heroes that they
1:02:47
Speaker 1: were very close to perfect beings and we were those
1:02:52
Speaker 1: were used to help us stay in line, to be
1:02:55
Speaker 1: disciplined and to work hard. And you know, and if
1:02:58
Speaker 1: you could you could do that, is will be end
1:03:00
Speaker 1: up like that person. I mean, that whole thing was
1:03:02
Speaker 1: a fiction, but it kept us on the straight and
1:03:06
Speaker 1: narrow and now there's just so much out there. It's
1:03:11
Speaker 1: really hard. I feel bad for young males because absolutely
1:03:16
Speaker 1: they're getting really bad signals. And you're right. I mean,
1:03:22
Speaker 1: you know, it's one thing. It's one thing for the
1:03:26
Speaker 1: parents to try to do the surgery when the kids
1:03:29
Speaker 1: below ten, but letting a teenager decide, oh, I'm unhappy
1:03:35
Speaker 1: and therefore I'm going to change my sex. We're all
1:03:37
Speaker 1: unhappy when we're teenage. Yeah, you know, but you know,
1:03:42
Speaker 1: we're going way off the original topic here, but I
1:03:45
Speaker 1: you know, it's a difficult time now, and what's remarkable
1:03:49
Speaker 1: is how it's happening all over the world.
1:03:52
Speaker 2: My hero always will be Tarzan. Tarzan because you know,
1:03:57
Speaker 2: he lived in the nature, he stood up against evil.
1:04:01
Speaker 2: Most importantly, he looked after his boy. And that's just
1:04:05
Speaker 2: my mantra for life. But my boy he rather just
1:04:10
Speaker 2: scroll through YouTube and watch tars Ad. It's just not
1:04:13
Speaker 2: not interested, you know. And you can see that this
1:04:17
Speaker 2: change in the sort of you know, traditional role models.
1:04:21
Speaker 2: But Larry, I didn't want to finish on a sort
1:04:23
Speaker 2: of down note. I've got a couple more interesting questions. Okay,
1:04:30
Speaker 2: just looking at my notes here, So what is the
1:04:34
Speaker 2: one piece of evidence that you've uncovered through your through
1:04:39
Speaker 2: your research, that that wasn't in in you know, in
1:04:43
Speaker 2: the scheme of things before.
1:04:45
Speaker 1: Well, we've we've learned that the CIA did an investigation
1:04:54
Speaker 1: the weekend of the assassination through March of sixty four
1:05:00
Speaker 1: that they had previously denied they had done this. Guy
1:05:04
Speaker 1: Donald Heath had gone down to Miami and he was
1:05:09
Speaker 1: tasked with investigating whether the Cuban exiles or Castro supporters
1:05:15
Speaker 1: were behind the assassination. They denied that they ever did this.
1:05:20
Speaker 1: Their reports were generated and we haven't seen those reports.
1:05:23
Speaker 1: So we now know of this existence of this investigation
1:05:27
Speaker 1: and where we're trying to get those reports found if
1:05:35
Speaker 1: they still exist. And that's important because that shows that
1:05:38
Speaker 1: the government, even after Hoover announced that Oswald was the shooter,
1:05:43
Speaker 1: the CIA was still looking for the killers. So that's
1:05:47
Speaker 1: that's important. I think that the three D animation that
1:05:52
Speaker 1: we did, that we actually John Orr, that we paid
1:05:56
Speaker 1: to create this three D animation, that is that is
1:06:00
Speaker 1: using modern technology to try to answer the questions, and
1:06:05
Speaker 1: that I think demolished is the single bullet theory. John
1:06:10
Speaker 1: Orr also discovered that there was organic material on the
1:06:15
Speaker 1: nose of the bullet fragment that was found in the
1:06:17
Speaker 1: limo that they had always thought that was inorganic and
1:06:21
Speaker 1: it turned out its human tissue. And we want to
1:06:23
Speaker 1: try to get the FBI or someone to do DNA
1:06:27
Speaker 1: testing on that because that could also help answer or
1:06:31
Speaker 1: refute the single bullet theory because of the tissue is
1:06:34
Speaker 1: that of John Connolly, then clearly he wasn't just injured
1:06:39
Speaker 1: by one bullet because those are bullet fragments in the
1:06:41
Speaker 1: front of the car. And if it's John Kennedy's DNA,
1:06:46
Speaker 1: is its scalp tissue or throat tissue, Because if it's
1:06:48
Speaker 1: scalp tissue, then that also demolishes the single bullet theory.
1:06:53
Speaker 1: So those are two and you know, we're I'm trying
1:06:58
Speaker 1: to think of anything that's probably the more important stuff
1:07:03
Speaker 1: that we're finding this other stuff that's not as sexy,
1:07:08
Speaker 1: but it helps fill in some of the gaps that
1:07:12
Speaker 1: you know, we've been As a lawyer, I'm looking for
1:07:15
Speaker 1: evidence and that you know, we find some more bits
1:07:18
Speaker 1: of information. I think I have a bit much better
1:07:21
Speaker 1: understanding now of the role of Colos Marcello with the assassination,
1:07:27
Speaker 1: the way he may have funded it, but I'm not
1:07:31
Speaker 1: quite ready to write a book about it, but I
1:07:34
Speaker 1: think I have a pretty good feel now about how
1:07:36
Speaker 1: that worked.
1:07:38
Speaker 2: So Larry, last question, then, if there was anybody from
1:07:42
Speaker 2: this era who was involved, alive or dead, that you
1:07:47
Speaker 2: could speak to, who would it be and what question
1:07:51
Speaker 2: would you ask them? If you could only ask one question, Well.
1:07:55
Speaker 1: I think the obvious question would be I would love
1:07:58
Speaker 1: to talk to Lee Oswald. Is he never got a
1:08:00
Speaker 1: chance to speak publicly about his role. That would be
1:08:06
Speaker 1: fascinating to be able to sit down with him and
1:08:09
Speaker 1: ask him the kinds of questions he was never asked
1:08:12
Speaker 1: by by Dallas police, by reporters. You know, he did
1:08:16
Speaker 1: say it was Patsy. But I'd like to go through,
1:08:19
Speaker 1: you know, the last six months of his life and
1:08:23
Speaker 1: go past the denials and find out what was really
1:08:26
Speaker 1: going on in his life, because he's a very he's
1:08:29
Speaker 1: a strange guy for a twenty three year old person.
1:08:34
Speaker 1: The things that he did, the people he came across,
1:08:38
Speaker 1: just it doesn't seem the odds of him coming across
1:08:43
Speaker 1: all those people and being just a normal, everyday high
1:08:47
Speaker 1: school dropout just doesn't make sense. You know, how did
1:08:51
Speaker 1: he know to go to Helsinki to get into the
1:08:53
Speaker 1: Soviet Union? Who told him that? Where'd he learn that?
1:08:56
Speaker 1: I mean that that was the back door into Russia?
1:08:59
Speaker 1: You know, I mean so uh yeah, So he would
1:09:03
Speaker 1: be the person in terms of trying to solve the
1:09:06
Speaker 1: assassination that I would want to talk to. Who would
1:09:09
Speaker 1: you want to talk to?
1:09:12
Speaker 3: Good question? We should? We should swap swap places.
1:09:17
Speaker 1: And I'm curious because I mean that to me was
1:09:19
Speaker 1: like the most obvious person. Yeah, you know Jack Ruby.
1:09:22
Speaker 1: Maybe Jack Ruby is the other guy.
1:09:23
Speaker 2: Well we say Jack Ruby, and we mentioned Israel. We
1:09:27
Speaker 2: should mention his real name, which was Jack Rubinstein, wasn't it.
1:09:31
Speaker 2: So again there's there's you know, possibly tenuous, but.
1:09:37
Speaker 1: He allegedly he allegedly according to Burke Griffin, who was
1:09:43
Speaker 1: a staffer for the staff lawyer for the Warrant Commission,
1:09:46
Speaker 1: his belief is that Jack Ruby the day of the assassination,
1:09:52
Speaker 1: there was this Dallas Morning News had you know, wanted
1:09:57
Speaker 1: for treason and had the black frame and John ca entity.
1:10:00
Speaker 1: Well that was apparently paid for by your organization that
1:10:04
Speaker 1: was headed by a Jewish person, and Burke Griffin says
1:10:09
Speaker 1: that Ruby was afraid the Jews were going to be
1:10:12
Speaker 1: blamed for the assassination, and so he was trying to
1:10:15
Speaker 1: avenge the Jewish people and that was his motive for
1:10:18
Speaker 1: killing kind of killing Oswald.
1:10:20
Speaker 3: Got yeah, got ya.
1:10:22
Speaker 2: So who would I want to speak to I'm going
1:10:26
Speaker 2: to say, off the top of my head, if indeed
1:10:28
Speaker 2: this did happen, it would be the chap in the
1:10:30
Speaker 2: storm drain Ah Okay, Yeah, he wouldn't be able to
1:10:34
Speaker 2: tell me who was behind it, but he would be right.
1:10:37
Speaker 1: Right, because they never told right. Everyone is very you know, compartmentalized.
1:10:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, either that or I know I shouldn't. I don't
1:10:46
Speaker 2: get two goes at this. But if I had a
1:10:48
Speaker 2: second go, it would be the president. I'd say, you know,
1:10:52
Speaker 2: mister President, who do you think is out to get you?
1:10:56
Speaker 1: And well, I'd love to talk to him us for
1:11:00
Speaker 1: any reason, right, you know, not just for the assassination.
1:11:04
Speaker 1: There are some people that I call them the forest
1:11:07
Speaker 1: gumps of the JFK assassination, like James Files due to
1:11:11
Speaker 1: the Baker. I think there are some people that they
1:11:14
Speaker 1: try to associate themselves with the assassination. You know, for.
1:11:17
Speaker 2: Files, is that the ex con if that's the right terminology,
1:11:21
Speaker 2: that said that he was on the assassination team. Yes, yes,
1:11:25
Speaker 2: they actually I saw I saw one of these lie
1:11:29
Speaker 2: detective people, you know, these people that work in crime
1:11:32
Speaker 2: and they can tell when someone's lying. And their verdict
1:11:35
Speaker 2: on him was they said, you know, he certainly believes
1:11:39
Speaker 2: that he's saying the truth, right.
1:11:41
Speaker 1: Right, Well, conmen, you know, loo con men can be
1:11:45
Speaker 1: detectives because they're they're good at lying, right, So, lie
1:11:50
Speaker 1: detects are good for people that are not used to
1:11:53
Speaker 1: lying or uncomfortable about lying, and then it creates you know,
1:12:00
Speaker 1: bio feedback. But if you're if you're a person that
1:12:04
Speaker 1: you know is a com man, you know, it's easy
1:12:07
Speaker 1: to lie. That's your whole life. But there's nothing that
1:12:11
Speaker 1: he said, you know when I when I listened to him,
1:12:14
Speaker 1: that he couldn't have learned by reading books, you know,
1:12:17
Speaker 1: while he was in jail, so of course, and you know,
1:12:20
Speaker 1: I think he's the kind of There are certain people
1:12:22
Speaker 1: that want to sell their life story to get a
1:12:24
Speaker 1: movie made of them. You know, there was a book,
1:12:27
Speaker 1: the movie that Robert Reford made, the last one he made,
1:12:29
Speaker 1: about the guy, the old Man and the gun. I
1:12:31
Speaker 1: think that's what they were trying to do, you know,
1:12:34
Speaker 1: It's amazing how people are willing to and put them
1:12:37
Speaker 1: that people are willing to put themselves into a crime
1:12:40
Speaker 1: in order to get celebrity.
1:12:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something I've noticed since I've been podcasting, because
1:12:46
Speaker 2: I research an awful lot of stuff. I look at
1:12:49
Speaker 2: a lot of people that are topical, that are being
1:12:51
Speaker 2: guests on lots of shows, and I've come across this
1:12:55
Speaker 2: think and somehow I think it links to childhood trauma,
1:12:59
Speaker 2: is that people can be so convincing and it's something
1:13:04
Speaker 2: to do with a kind of narcissistic psychopathy where they
1:13:09
Speaker 2: can tell this story and look you right in the
1:13:13
Speaker 2: eye and not give any sign away. And maybe it's
1:13:17
Speaker 2: they genuinely believe it. I you know, as with this
1:13:20
Speaker 2: file potentially with this files guy, and it's I had
1:13:24
Speaker 2: one guy on from Hawaii. His name was Bob Oh
1:13:30
Speaker 2: what was his name? I can't remember, but anyway, he
1:13:35
Speaker 2: came on and he told this absolutely fascinating yarn a story.
1:13:43
Speaker 2: At one point and he said this with absolute sincerity.
1:13:47
Speaker 2: He said he was in a room with George Bush
1:13:51
Speaker 2: and an alien gray he referred to it, entered the
1:13:54
Speaker 2: room and walked through the wall, and he said it
1:13:58
Speaker 2: with app absolutely dead pan, and then a couple of things.
1:14:04
Speaker 2: It left me thinking, Larry, I think this guy's been
1:14:07
Speaker 2: and I'm not laughing at people that have different views,
1:14:09
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's great that people challenge official narratives.
1:14:13
Speaker 2: But I was wondering, has this vibe been really damaged
1:14:16
Speaker 2: from childhood to the point where he's almost like MK
1:14:20
Speaker 2: ultra programmed into into He genuinely believes this so much
1:14:26
Speaker 2: that he can tell the story and it comes. And
1:14:29
Speaker 2: the funny thing was a week later after putting the
1:14:32
Speaker 2: podcast up, I had the Hawaii Police contact me said
1:14:38
Speaker 2: you know, could I could I give them this guy's
1:14:40
Speaker 2: whereabouts or something? And I was sort of well, I'm
1:14:43
Speaker 2: not I'm not not not going to do that. I'm
1:14:46
Speaker 2: sorry and uh and they said to give you what
1:14:48
Speaker 2: is contact and for some strange reason, I had actually
1:14:52
Speaker 2: lost his contact. So that was a, you know, a
1:14:55
Speaker 2: no brainer sort of thing. But then two weeks later,
1:15:00
Speaker 2: the platform, the one that we're we're on I don't
1:15:03
Speaker 2: want to say their name, but the one that this
1:15:05
Speaker 2: video will be watched on probably now, they took our
1:15:09
Speaker 2: video down and they didn't give me a strike, they
1:15:12
Speaker 2: didn't put me on a warning or anything. They just
1:15:15
Speaker 2: took it down. They didn't say this doesn't meet our
1:15:18
Speaker 2: standards as they usually do it, it just disappeared as so, so,
1:15:27
Speaker 2: you know, maybe some things in life I don't know.
1:15:31
Speaker 1: Well, I read it. I read a great book called
1:15:33
Speaker 1: The Confidence Men, and it's about con men and and
1:15:37
Speaker 1: it was really mind opening for me. Is too there
1:15:43
Speaker 1: are people that have just incredible talents that I mean,
1:15:48
Speaker 1: con men have been with us since the beginning of time.
1:15:52
Speaker 1: And there are some people that just have an enormous talent.
1:15:55
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate that they use this talent for the wrong thing,
1:15:58
Speaker 1: but they make you really feel like even like when
1:16:01
Speaker 1: you're in the presence of some politicians. There are some
1:16:05
Speaker 1: politicians that when you're talking to them, they make you
1:16:09
Speaker 1: feel like you're the only person in the room. It
1:16:11
Speaker 1: is just this gift to anyway, So well, that was
1:16:16
Speaker 1: interesting that those two people that you mentioned. So you know, anyway,
1:16:22
Speaker 1: Congress is in recess. They're going to come back in September,
1:16:26
Speaker 1: and there's supposed to be some files coming from the Russians,
1:16:30
Speaker 1: about five feet high worth of files from the KGB
1:16:34
Speaker 1: which no one has ever seen before. There about about
1:16:37
Speaker 1: Oswald's surveillance by the KGB, so there may be some
1:16:41
Speaker 1: really interesting news in September or October.
1:16:44
Speaker 3: Wow, we should keep our fingers crossed.
1:16:47
Speaker 2: Yes, the name for our friends at home it was
1:16:51
Speaker 2: Robert weigand was the chat that came on the podcast
1:16:55
Speaker 2: and then mysteriously, you know, off he went, it's you
1:16:59
Speaker 2: can still find that podcast on our audio and I
1:17:03
Speaker 2: believe I put it on our locals channel, Larry. That
1:17:08
Speaker 2: just leads me to say, first off, I should just
1:17:11
Speaker 2: say I absolutely adore Americans. I've had such a great
1:17:15
Speaker 2: time in your wonderful country on several occasions. My first
1:17:20
Speaker 2: ever proper holiday was after I served in the Northern
1:17:23
Speaker 2: Ireland conflict. We treated ourselves to ten days in New York,
1:17:30
Speaker 2: staying on Fifth Avenue where my friend's uncle had an apartment.
1:17:34
Speaker 2: He was the he was the dean of the Fashion
1:17:37
Speaker 2: Institute of New York. Okay, they had all Marilyn and
1:17:42
Speaker 2: Rose dresses and stuff in there, you know, like in
1:17:45
Speaker 2: a freezer or something to protect them and this kind
1:17:48
Speaker 2: of thing. We had an absolutely brilliant time, had dinner
1:17:52
Speaker 2: on Windows on the World on top of the World
1:17:54
Speaker 2: Trade Center twice, and every guest, every American I've had
1:18:01
Speaker 2: on my show's been an absolute delight, including yourself, Larry,
1:18:05
Speaker 2: so massive, massive, thank you.
1:18:08
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for having me on. And you know
1:18:11
Speaker 1: I'll let you know if we have any interesting news
1:18:14
Speaker 1: in the fall.
1:18:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, please do.
1:18:16
Speaker 2: And you know this open invitation come back on the
1:18:19
Speaker 2: show at anytime. We're going to put your links below, Larry,
1:18:23
Speaker 2: so people can get hold of get hold of you
1:18:26
Speaker 2: and read through your research themselves. That just leads me
1:18:30
Speaker 2: to say, Larry, stay on the line so when I
1:18:32
Speaker 2: push record off, I can say goodbye properly. But to
1:18:36
Speaker 2: everybody at home, thank you for supporting us on locals,
1:18:40
Speaker 2: Patreon or becoming a YouTube member. If you can like
1:18:44
Speaker 2: and subscribe, that would be absolutely absolutely brilliant and we're
1:18:50
Speaker 2: we so we'll see you soon much love friends, Thank you.
1:18:56
Speaker 3: For listening to the Bought the t Shirt Podcast.
1:18:59
Speaker 2: Please like, subscribe and share, and don't get to follow
1:19:03
Speaker 2: me on social media use the name Chris Throll, Instagram,
1:19:09
Speaker 2: Chris dot Throom.
1:19:12
Speaker 3: Thank you