Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Daytona 500: The World Center of PAIN | Mark Martin Archive #5

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Daytona 500: The World Center of PAIN | Mark Martin Archive #5 · Kenny Wallace Media

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Hello everybody. It is episode 5 of the Mark
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Martin Archive Podcast. I'm Charlie Marlow.
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There's Mark Martin. There is Matt Martin.
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Football season's over. We had the Super Bowl and I
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remember you saying Mark once that you watch 1 football game
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per year and it's the Super Bowl.
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So you watched last night, I take it?
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I did watched my one and only game of the year.
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And Matt, you're not so much of A football fan either, correct?
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No, I didn't watch it. I will like if, you know, I go
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over to some, you know, buddies houses or something like that.
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They got it on. But yeah, it was just me this
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weekend, so I didn't watch it. And and Mark and I were kind of
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joking before we started. But Mark, you said based on the
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last couple years, let's be honest, the last couple years
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the Super Bowl hasn't been too great.
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But that doesn't mean we have to change the rules on all these
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sports, right? We've we've gone through that
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before with some other sports. Yeah, we don't.
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We don't need to shorten the game in half, take two quarters
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away and have a points reset at halftime.
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The game will be awesome again next year, I'm just sure of it.
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So let's all just be patient and accelerate the dominance that we
1:19
saw. You know, that's the way you
1:23
should do racing. I don't know Dad, I mean, don't
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you think it'd be more exciting if we instead of 100 yard field,
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we've made it, you know, cut it in half, made it 50.
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I mean that would get, you know, people like me, the casual fan
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that doesn't really watch, you know, I'd TuneIn if it was a 50
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yard field. Absolutely.
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Yeah, they need to do that. Yeah, absolutely.
1:44
Yeah, they need Peter to me. Yeah, yeah.
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It make make fans out of us casuals.
1:51
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love it.
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I love it. I love the the not so subtlety
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right there, all right. But look, we all know once the
2:02
the Super Bowl is over, it's really officially NASCAR season
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and Daytona 500 season. So let's just let's start there
2:11
and mark what instead of calling it the the World Center of
2:15
Speed, you have a different nickname for Daytona
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International Speedway, right? Certainly for me, it was the
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world center of pain. And so, yeah, I use that term,
2:27
you know, for the second-half of my career at least, if not more,
2:33
that place helped me a lot of a lot of pain.
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So did you, did you not like it because of the way things shook
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out performance wise, or did you actually it wasn't one of your
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favorite tracks to race on, or a little bit of both?
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So I raced there in 82, in 83 and, and then I came back in 88
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and in 88 and 8990 it was still, even though the restrictor
3:07
plates came in, in 88, it was still, it would still get slick
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enough on Sundays that it would be a, what I would call a real
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race where you couldn't hold it wide open all the time.
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And you know that that makes a huge difference in how the race
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goes. You know, better handling cars
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and more brave and crafts crafts.
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You know, the craftsmanship of the drivers counts more if you
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have to let off the gas any at all.
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So we still have that. But as we went on into the 90s,
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you know, the cars got closer together the packs, you know it
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it it started to become pack racing.
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And once it became pack racing, then it was a demolition Derby
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and it has just progressed along that route.
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And it's just not any, it wasn't any fun to me to go to be trying
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to win a championship and go to a race where you knew at least
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50% of a chance of being in a wreck that you couldn't avoid
4:26
and didn't cause. So, you know, no, I didn't like
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it. I like Talladega better.
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But you know, later on, Talladega became pretty much the
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same thing. There's a lot more room at
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Talladega. So it took longer for Talladega
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to become problematic with pack racing than it did Daytona.
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But the Daytona 500 is our crown jewel and somebody wins it every
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year and you know, it's it's you know, it's our crown jewel.
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So something I never won. Yeah, So, Charlie, you can, you
5:11
can cut this out if this is a little bit too controversial for
5:13
people. But this is just a question for
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you, Dad, because I've, I don't know, I guess being a kid and,
5:20
and growing up with you and you've never really liked
5:22
Daytona, Maybe it rubbed off on me a little bit, but I've never
5:26
quite understood why the Daytona 500 is, I'll just be honest,
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I've never understood the hype for that race.
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I mean, maybe it's because I don't understand the history as
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much as I should. But to me, the Southern 500, I
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don't know why that isn't the crown jewel.
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I mean, I know it's a crown jewel race, but I don't know why
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people don't view the Southern 500 the way they do the Daytona
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500. Because to me it's it's the
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oldest. Darlington is the oldest track.
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It's much harder to win a race there and drive on than Daytona
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is. And there's no other track like
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it at all on the circuit. And it's in the heartland of
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NASCAR, the Carolinas. And in fact, I think when they
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built Darlington, the guy who built Darlington wanted to like
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make Darlington like NASCAR's Indy.
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And I don't know, I like it. To me, like if you win the
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Southern 500, that's harder to do as a driver, you know, then
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winning the Daytona 500 after 1988, I'd say with the
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restrictor plates and all that. I mean, you, you make all great
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points and I don't disagree with any of it.
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I think that part of the part of it is tradition and in the
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history when that race track was built in, you know, 5960 there,
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I mean, this thing was a monster.
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And it was, you know, in the 60s it was a massive, not that
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Darlington wouldn't, you know, 'cause they start nearly 100
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cars at Darlington and you know, the race was won by 13 laps I
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think one year. So Darlington was, but it was
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just viewed different. 2 1/2 miles was, was an absolute
7:32
monster and a beast and a test of, of horsepower and engines,
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you know, all up through the 60s and 70s.
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And I think that part of it is it just never, you know, it has
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changed so much because the cars have outgrew it.
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The cars outgrew the racetrack in the mid 80s where and the way
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I say that is because they got to running 200, which was too
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fast for it to be safe for the, for the fans.
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And you know, and so it, it's never died out.
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The mystique has never died out from prior to when the cars
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really outgrew the racetrack. When you start having to
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restrict the cars from 900 horsepower TO400425, you got you
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got a problem. I mean, it's just, it's just a
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different race. And so, yeah, you know, it's
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it's a different race, but it's still, it's still considered the
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crown jewel. And for some of that I can't.
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I can't explain. Yeah, I, I think you have.
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Obviously it opens up the year. It is NASCAR's Super Bowl.
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We just had the Super Bowl. You have all the pomp and
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circumstance and as you said, Mark, you still have the
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mystique. But let's be real, a lot of
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people have talked about some of the prestige as you've discussed
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there, Matt, not being the same. We've heard Tony Stewart talk
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about this. We've heard Dale Junior talk
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about this, where he said back in the day, you'd compare a
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Daytona 500 win to winning a championship and you'd say, are
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they similar? And he said, look, I would never
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have that same thought nowadays. Just being honest here.
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So how, how do we get, because it's always going to be a cool
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event, but how do we get winning the race, winning the Daytona
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500 to be that real legit crown jewel again?
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What can NASCAR do to get back there, you think?
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If you want my opinion, I say it's impossible.
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I'm sorry. It's just racing has changed.
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Cars have changed. They're so freaking fast.
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I don't see any way, I don't see any way that you can make it the
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same kind of challenge. It's hard to win the Daytona 500
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now, extremely hard, but you can also be lucky and win it way
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easier than you used to could used to.
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You had to flat out outrun everybody in the field, outrun
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and outlast. Now that outlast is important
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because that's the one thing that that still is, you know,
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is, is in play here, but you have to outlast the wrecks.
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I mean, there's so many potential winners that wreck out
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and and and, you know, the cars are in a pack.
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The pack makes it exciting for the fans, especially the casuals
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and and it's never going away and it will never be the same
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kind of challenge to win that race that it was prior to the
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the mid 80s, eight, mid 80s and and prior in my opinion.
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Yeah. It just seems like, especially
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since 1988, that there's been quite a few lucky winners of the
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Daytona 500 where it's like you think of the Southern 500.
11:18
I mean, if you've won that race, like the only people that got
11:22
lucky that won that race, they were out front and it started
11:25
raining because it rains often. But it's like even the people
11:29
that have won under when they, you know, it's been called due
11:32
to rain, like they usually had led the race for a while.
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So I mean, there's very few Southern 500 winners that got
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lucky. There's quite a number of
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Daytona 500 winners that you could probably name that get
11:46
that got lucky. But I mean, not to take that
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away from him, just it's a different, I think it's a
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different race than it used to be ever since they put the
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restrictor plate on it. And as Dad said, as the
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technology progressed, it's just not to me, you know, I just
12:01
never viewed it even as a little kid, like the the same that
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everybody else did, I guess. One of the things about auto
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racing that is that is slowly going away is and it, and it has
12:16
to, I'm not saying anything bad about it, but one of the things
12:21
that is taking some of the lure away from auto racing is 40
12:27
years ago it was who could build the biggest engine, who could
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make the most power, who could go the fastest, who could build
12:40
the trickest car. They can't do any of that now.
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You know, the cars got too fast. You had to do something to
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contain it. The cost got too astronomical.
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You had to do something to contain it.
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All these things have changed. Motorsports in every form, not
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just NASCAR. It trickles all the way down to,
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you know, to local racing. I mean, how many local short
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tracks you pulled in and seen tractor trailers at?
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Dude, you know, our first trailer was a angle ironwood and
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house trailer axles we got for free, you know, and, and, and
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goodness gracious, if you go to a, a big late model asphalt or
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dirt race, 100% or tractor trailer rigs, you know, and so
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it's just all changed so much and it's taking a lot of the
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ingenuity away. And so the lure toward it is, is
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diminished by all of that. And there's nothing, absolutely
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nothing we can do about it. The more rules you make, you
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know, the harder it is to get through tech, the more people
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get thrown out of races. And if you take the rules away,
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then people get hurt and only those rich survive, you know,
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survive it financially. So we're just, that's where we
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are today. And believe me, it's only going
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to get worse as we go forward. I would think big picture, the
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Chase coming back, we're going to have less late race wrecks.
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I'm not saying we're not going to have any, but with the no
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more winning you're in, we're going to have less.
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But I'm just thinking Daytona 500, though, I don't know how
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much that impacts it because five laps to go, 3 laps to go,
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it's still the Daytona 500. And you know, drivers are still
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going to get aggressive to try to win that crown jewel.
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So while I think big picture will probably have less
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craziness across the season, what do you guys think?
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You think it'll change how the Daytona 500 is actually raced
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this year? I think very little.
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First of all, these guys are going to have to learn.
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They're going to have to hit their thumb with the hammer and
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go. Ow.
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You know it's going to most of them aren't going to are going
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to have to learn the hard way because in today's environment
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you have to race so aggressively that you don't care if you
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wreck. And if you wreck now, it's going
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to cost you. But I think the Daytona 500 is
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such a big race, such a big event that all I think
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everybody's going to pretty much 100% race the same way as they
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did last year. And it's such a pack race.
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And when it when it comes down to the last, it starts about 50
15:55
to go, 50 laps to go. But at 30 to go, it really
16:00
starts to get anxious because the guys that are not in the
16:04
front now know that their time is running out to get up there.
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And it gets begins to get really physical.
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And it's going to be exciting, you know, and we're going to
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have a Daytona 500 champion and he's going to have to survive.
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He's going to have to miss, you know, all kinds of mishaps and,
16:27
and survive the whole thing. And we, we should celebrate it.
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It is still the Daytona 500. And I think these guys are going
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to, they're going to be giving it hell.
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Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I don't think that, you
16:43
know, they want that win on their resume so bad that, you
16:46
know, the driving, you know, it's probably going to be the
16:48
same as it as it always has been, at least for the the past
16:51
few years. And but big picture, like you
16:54
said though, Charlie, you know they may probably will start to
16:58
change, you know how they drive throughout the season with the
17:02
points being a little bit different now.
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So with Daytona coming up this Sunday, we'll do our kind of
17:08
mini season preview. Mark, do you think, do you think
17:13
that the Chase coming back, which drivers does that favor?
17:18
And and not just that, are there any drivers that you think 2026
17:22
for whatever reason with their team or maybe with their
17:26
maturation that there's some drivers you're really looking at
17:29
this year to make some statements?
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I think that you know this Chase format favors Chase Elliott and
17:38
William Byron. Christopher Bell.
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Incredibly consistent, good runner, very consistent.
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I'd like to see C Bell get his whole team firing on all 8
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cylinders. He is capable of doing even more
18:04
than what he's done. I mean, he's amazing talent and
18:08
he's got an amazing team and operation behind him, but
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they're capable of more if they can just get that magic going.
18:18
Carson Hosevar could and should win this year.
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And that's amazing for Spire to be able, you know, to win on
18:34
speed. And they've, they've, they've
18:38
got it. And so I think he'll be exciting
18:42
to watch, you know, and they, I, I, I will watch with a lot of
18:50
interest Corey Heim, because even though he's going to be
18:57
part time, he's an amazing talent and someone that's going
19:01
to be fun to watch. Connor Zelich.
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Zelich is, you know, he's a generational.
19:10
Not very often do you have an AJ Foyt come along.
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And five years later, another AJ Foyt come along and we've got,
19:20
you know, we've we've been blessed with, you know, with
19:24
with Kyle Larson. Connor is not in a Hendrick car,
19:33
but he's going to be spectacular enough to be able to probably
19:38
win this year. And if it if they can do that,
19:45
then they may be able to beef that team up to where it can be,
19:53
you know, Hendrick level of equipment, because a lot of
19:58
times the driver, not only what he does with his hands, but when
20:03
he can deliver results and, and enthusiasm, you know, other
20:08
pieces of the puzzle seem to come together.
20:11
So that's going to be interesting to to watch as well.
20:14
We really have. I'm extremely optimistic about
20:20
what what we get to watch this year.
20:24
You know, with those guys and Cup racing, Xfinity racing, the
20:28
Truck Series and ARCA, I have been enjoying ARCA more the last
20:35
couple of years. Seeing you know who has it and
20:40
who doesn't. You know, Lavar Scott is someone
20:46
that I really think is good for our sport is distinct
20:51
personality, pretty darn aggressive, you know, and really
20:57
talented. And I'm, I'm happy to see him
21:00
with Tommy Joe Martens and Team Alpha Prime because they
21:06
continue to improve. And it does my heart good to
21:10
see, you know, Tommy Joe, who was really a budget racing
21:16
organization, be able to start, you know, posting these top 15
21:20
finishes. And it would be great to see
21:24
them continue to get more competitive.
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So much to watch this year. I'm I'm really optimistic.
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Yeah, you took my next question kind of because the other day
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NASCAR put up this graphic and it was all the drivers who have
21:39
never won a Cup race. And I think it was after the
21:42
Clash. Obviously Ryan Priest won the
21:44
Clash, but it wasn't a points race.
21:46
But as I was looking at that graphic, I'm thinking which
21:49
drivers are going to get their first Cup win and Hosovar came
21:52
to mind. I feel like Ty Gibbs also feels
21:54
like he's due for a win potentially in 26.
21:58
And then as you mentioned Zilich, I was thinking for
22:01
Zilich though, do you think it it probably has to be a road
22:03
course for him to get a win in, in 26?
22:06
It doesn't have to be, but it could, but it could be, you
22:10
know, he he'll have to beat, you know, SVG to get a road course
22:15
win. So that will be a challenge.
22:17
It doesn't have to be a road course, but it it more likely
22:21
would be, but it's going to be it's going to be fun to watch.
22:26
It's also fun to watch SVG to see if he continues to wrap his
22:30
arms around, you know, if he can get to be as good on an Oval as
22:37
he is on a road course. He's our next superstar for
22:42
sure. So.
22:43
Yeah, I mean, if he could just get like, you don't even really
22:46
have to be that good. If he could just get where he's
22:49
decent, like Mike could win, you know, a race or two on an Oval,
22:52
you know, a couple times a year. I mean, he dude, and then he
22:56
wins pretty much all the road course races.
22:58
I mean that's he could rack up a lot of wins.
23:02
Definitely. And we're going to, we're going
23:04
to talk about Ryan Priest here and the clash.
23:07
I know you guys have some, some great memories of the of the
23:10
clash and the Bud Shootout back in the day.
23:12
But when we're talking about NASCAR, I always try to be very
23:15
fair to NASCAR. And let's be real with with this
23:19
clash, I mean, you know, it's in Winston Salem, NC, but they had
23:23
a historic, we're talking, I mean, 100 year type winter
23:28
storm. They had to move it.
23:30
They moved it a couple times. Obviously you had the crazy
23:34
weather there. You had the the cars off the
23:37
track to to refuel. They had to switch to to FS2
23:42
from Fox. In the end though, I mean, it
23:45
was a great story with Ryan Priest winning the race, his
23:48
first ever Cup win. Again, even though it wasn't a a
23:51
points race, I do think you got to give NASCAR a lot of credit
23:54
for putting the show on. I mean, if you saw all the
23:57
equipment and trucks they had there for a week, just move and
24:01
snow just to get anything on there.
24:03
NASCAR was really dealt a tough hand for the Clash this year.
24:08
Yeah, I mean, you know, I saw a lot of crap talking about the
24:14
whole thing and I get some of it.
24:17
I mean, January race in North Carolina's not a great idea.
24:24
However, the race there in 2025 I thought was a massive hit.
24:32
You know, it's historical now that that may wear off.
24:38
Certainly they didn't have. They were dealt a terrible blow.
24:42
And kudos to Stenhouse and a couple of the other drivers that
24:47
went up there and shoveled snow out of the grandstands.
24:51
I thought was pretty amazing. I've seen a lot of cool stuff.
24:55
There's a lot you can say bragging and kudos to to the
25:01
whole thing. There's plenty you can say, you
25:04
know, bad about it. That's fine.
25:07
It was too long. You know, the race was too long.
25:10
You know, they switched, switched to coverage, TV
25:13
coverage, which was really a bad, bad move for the fans.
25:19
There were plenty to gripe about, but kudos to NASCAR for
25:24
even taking it, taking the race up there.
25:28
I don't know where it goes in the future.
25:31
I'd like to see it at some other short tracks, but you know, one
25:39
of the short tracks that comes to mind.
25:43
Two things. One doesn't have safer barriers,
25:47
which doesn't bother me on a short track, but it does them.
25:52
I get that understand it, although I it doesn't bother me
25:58
and I wouldn't mind racing on a short track without one but
26:02
safer barrier. But if they happen to pan to the
26:06
stands, that wouldn't be a good look for Fox, you know, network
26:13
television. So there's a lot of things you
26:16
have to think about everybody just so I wanted to put it here,
26:19
put it there, man. There's a lot of things to
26:22
consider. I'd love to see it at New Smyrna
26:25
Speedway. But, you know, I don't see that
26:29
happening. I don't see how you could
26:32
possibly do it, but I wish it was there.
26:34
Yeah, it it seems like NASCAR is doing so many things.
26:38
The last two 3-4 months to kind of go back to try to get back to
26:43
the glory days of, of NASCAR. And you know, whether you
26:47
believe in something religious or fate or the weather, it kind
26:51
of did seem like this storm in a way was kind of just this
26:55
message. And maybe it's not next year,
26:57
but it was kind of this message. Maybe just go back, maybe go
26:59
back to Daytona for a while. You're, you're going back in so
27:03
many other instances in NASCAR, Maybe you should go back for the
27:06
Clash for the shootout there, too.
27:09
I mean, weather wise it would definitely make sense to to race
27:13
further down South. I mean, but this isn't like a
27:16
new thing with NASCAR. I mean, way back in, you know,
27:19
early 90s, I mean, they were racing, you know, second race of
27:23
the year, Richmond, I mean, in February.
27:26
So, you know, they'd raced dad one in 1990, I believe that
27:30
still holds the record for the coldest NASCAR race ever.
27:35
And so it's like, I don't know why, you know, you'd want to
27:38
race that far up north, you know, that early in the year,
27:41
but they would. But you know, in 93 it was the
27:46
spring Atlanta race where it they had that Blizzard.
27:50
So I mean, it could wild stuff can happen even down South, you
27:54
know, But I don't know, I would think if I was an Oscar, I'd
27:56
want to be, you know, racing further South, especially in
27:59
January and February. You know that a lot of the
28:04
sentiment is take it back to Daytona.
28:08
Well, I get that. I just want to remind people
28:12
that I wasn't one of them, but there were a lot of fans that
28:17
complained about it, about the race at Daytona.
28:20
You know, it be so, I mean, I'd, you know, sometimes I hate when
28:26
people complain because sometimes you get something
28:29
that's, you know, not worse if you it's just like the Super
28:32
Bowl. If you said I'm never going to
28:34
watch the Super Bowl again because I didn't think that was
28:36
a good game, Will that be short sighted?
28:41
Just keep coming back. You're going to see one of the
28:44
greatest games you ever saw one of these years coming up and
28:48
racing the same way. You have boring races, you have
28:52
mediocre races and some you just have that are over the top.
28:57
So, you know, I think the sentiment is to take it back to
29:03
Daytona, but I also agree with taking it to a short track
29:08
because if it's a, if it's a little short track, it gets
29:12
physical, gets everybody's blood pumping.
29:14
The one thing you have to remember is this is a exhibition
29:18
race. And Matt brings this up all the
29:22
time. It was a exhibition race in the
29:25
90s and you did different rules for that race and you raced it
29:30
different than you did the regular races.
29:32
And it should be you don't forget it's exhibition.
29:36
So if you do some, you know, some clown stuff or you know,
29:41
some goofy stuff or some gimmicks, OK, it's for a lot of
29:46
money. And by the way, we got to watch
29:48
some racing midweek racing even at that because of the weather.
29:54
And I thought it was cool. I was so ready for racing season
29:58
to start. It seems like the longest
30:00
offseason ever this this offseason.
30:04
Yeah, and I feel like sometimes folks think that people are
30:08
always complaining about NASCAR and I get that.
30:10
And and sometimes the loudest people on social media, they are
30:13
the folks complaining. But then I'll look and you could
30:16
have a tweet or a video and only 1% of the people are are even
30:21
commenting and only a few of them are complaining.
30:23
Most people are watching that video and enjoying it.
30:27
With the clash, though, I thought it was really cool.
30:29
First of all, Ryan Priest winning modified guy.
30:33
He Speaking of complaining, he drops the F bomb and a couple
30:36
people, a couple people were mad about that.
30:38
I I loved it because, look, it was passion and you can say it's
30:43
not a points race that mattered to that dude.
30:45
He was almost crying there. I mean, that's, again, it's not
30:48
a points race. That was his first NASCAR Cup
30:51
win. That was genuine emotion after
30:53
the race. I thought that was really cool.
30:55
I did too. I love that he dropped it.
30:58
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but it was genuine and
31:03
it was the core base look. The majority of the core base
31:10
swears, OK. And that was, you know, he
31:14
didn't plan that. It just flew out his mouth
31:17
because he was so damn excited. And, you know, of course I was
31:22
excited for him. That made-up for some of the
31:25
stuff that was disappointing, like the race being too long,
31:30
the TV coverage changing and the the gas thing.
31:36
You know, that was a tough call to have two cars, you know, fall
31:40
out of contention because they were short of gas.
31:43
But then they realized everybody was going to be short of gas.
31:46
So then they gave everybody a chance to gas.
31:48
Those were little fumbles. But for me, it was all made-up
31:53
for with this great winter. And overall it was a fantastic
31:58
show. I think it was awesome that it
32:01
rained and sleeted. I think it was a better show
32:04
because they had to put on rain tires, wet weather tires.
32:08
All of that together was I mean, dude, when Thursday I was, I was
32:14
in a great mood. I had seen a great race.
32:17
I saw a guy that I really pull for win a race, Saw him be
32:21
really real with his, with his language, and he didn't get
32:25
penalized for it, which was there are so many things if you
32:30
want to look at NASCAR right now, there's so many little
32:33
bitty wins and little bitty positives.
32:38
Oh yeah, they got lots of problems and we can talk about
32:40
those all day. But there's so many little wins
32:45
that looks like they're turning the corner in the right
32:49
direction. And, and, and as far as Ryan
32:53
goes, don't get this twisted about me being, you know,
32:58
partial to a guy who builds his own cars.
33:01
That's just a saying. Ryan didn't build his Cup car.
33:07
Ryan didn't build the frame on his late model that he's trying
33:12
to race, that he never raced late models before, really.
33:16
He got a car and he bought the pieces and he put them together
33:21
and he did the work himself. He has built modified cars and
33:28
has those in the shop. And you know, he's a car guy.
33:33
He's the most car guy you can have in NASCAR racing today.
33:40
You know, you, you can't get, you know, a, a guy that would be
33:44
any more of a car guy than that. And I don't begrudge anybody
33:48
who's never touched a, a race car other than the drivers
33:52
compartment. That's the, the, the day and age
33:55
we live in. And it's still really hard, but
33:58
it's cool to see a guy who gets his hands dirty that wins the
34:04
race, goes home and gets in his motorhome and drives all night
34:10
to New Smyrna to race. He's racing 2 divisions.
34:15
You know, his dad's got brought a Modified for him to race.
34:19
He raced A Modified. He's got that late model that he
34:22
built for the Snowball Derby. He raced that.
34:26
I mean, he's racing every night. I mean, that is, we like to see
34:31
that once in a while. Yeah, it was really cool to see
34:35
Ryan win. You know, he's ran, you know,
34:37
really well in that car. And it got me to thinking that
34:40
would be the very first Cup victory.
34:45
I mean, I know it's not a points race, but a win in the Cup
34:47
Series for the RFK or Roush, you know #60 wouldn't it?
34:52
Yeah, I think that's correct. Now that that card was running
34:57
before, right in the Cup Series, before they, they, I thought
35:01
that like a 98 or something. They put Matt Kenseth in, in the
35:05
60 for a race. I thought it ran before they,
35:09
you know, the last couple years. It probably has I, I don't have
35:14
that on my radar screen, but one of the things that you bring up,
35:17
Matt, is that's their first clash when in 27 years.
35:28
OK, Yeah, So was the last time they want it when you want it in
35:31
1999? As far as I know.
35:35
OK, yeah, I, I don't know, you know, but that I can't think of
35:39
anybody off the top of my head that want it.
35:42
I haven't, yeah. I haven't researched it, but I
35:45
thought someone, I thought I saw a comment like that, but it
35:51
might not be true. You had some really good, good
35:54
Daytona racers and with Kenseth and and, you know, Biffle and
36:00
Burton and all those guys. So I'm not really sure Bush as
36:07
well, but I think it was, I saw that somewhere.
36:11
It was pretty damn cool for everyone to be able, you know,
36:15
within the organization to get the win.
36:18
It's huge relief for for that kid.
36:21
You know, he has bet his whole life on being able to be
36:28
successful and it ain't been easy for him.
36:32
And he's had dark times and and he's a racer and he never quit
36:38
racing and never gave up on racing.
36:40
And hopefully he gets a a points race this year too.
36:45
Yeah, that'd be really cool to see.
36:47
Well, Matt and Mark, that 1999 Bud Shootout win, Matt, I know
36:52
you wanted to talk about that and you had a bunch of stories
36:54
also about the the 1999 season, which wraps into some more
36:58
discussion of the Daytona 500 as well.
37:01
So I'll I'll toss it to you there.
37:03
Yeah, so Ryan winning, you know, made me think of you winning the
37:08
99 Bud Shootout at Daytona. And that was a big deal for you
37:13
because, you know, your history at Daytona did not like racing
37:16
there. I mean, do you have any memories
37:21
or recollection from that race? I mean, it had to feel good to
37:24
win, you know, knowing your history there.
37:27
Yeah, it was really, it was. It was really pretty special.
37:32
I don't remember where we started from, but if you look at
37:39
the history of my starts and all those shootouts or clash in my
37:46
mind, I start on the last row ever race because you draw and I
37:50
am without question way less lucky than anybody else, you
37:56
know, or the year that I did draw the front row, I had the
37:59
slowest car in, in, in, in my history down there.
38:03
So, you know, I never never seemed like I had a good start.
38:08
Was always a real challenging race.
38:11
And it's funny, you ask, you know this is going to freak
38:14
people out, but you ask about my memories of it.
38:19
The memory I have of that race is you remember 1997 at
38:24
Talladega when we won the caution free race and I ran the
38:29
qualifying shocks and they were Bill Steens because the Penskeys
38:35
Rd. rougher than the Bill Steens at the same force.
38:41
So I felt like they might handle better on the long run because
38:45
they didn't jerk the car as bad. Well, in 99 for the for the
38:50
shootout, I had a mild version of of those Penske, I mean
38:58
Bilsteins on there. So that's that's what I
39:01
remember. And of course I remember winning
39:05
the race, you know, afterwards and going to Victory Lane, it
39:09
being a big relief. You know, it had been over 10
39:14
years and I hadn't been in contention to win hardly
39:20
anything there up until that point.
39:22
So it was. It was cool.
39:26
Yeah, I remember, you know, being in Victory Lane with my
39:29
cousin Austin and mom and everything.
39:32
So that was, it was really neat, you know, that that's what I
39:35
recall from it. But so did you.
39:38
How much different was your set up in the race?
39:41
Do you recall for, you know, for the 500 compared to the Bud
39:44
Shootout? You know, and it's funny, I
39:47
don't remember, I don't know, I don't remember running those
39:54
shocks in the 500, but they were a milder version.
39:59
So they didn't ride as rough. We were still, you know, the
40:03
racetrack was still really rough in 99.
40:06
So, you know, we, we were very much tuned into handling.
40:12
So I think we used more of a handling shot for for the 500
40:19
spring wise and all would have been the same.
40:22
You know it would have been. Just the 2.
40:24
So we had that race and then we would have the the 125 or 150
40:30
mile, the the duels on Thursday and the race track after the
40:36
duels becomes much more slick then the Sunday before the 500
40:42
like the shootout was always run the Sunday before the 500 and
40:46
the racetrack wasn't wasn't slick back then and it was a lot
40:50
about speed and less very much less about handling.
40:54
But by the time Thursday rolls around the racetrack and all the
40:59
activity by then would be getting it slick.
41:02
And so Thursday you would, you would figure out that your car
41:07
didn't handle good enough and you'd spend Friday and Saturday
41:10
trying to get it to handle better without sacrificing
41:14
speed. So, you know, we may have tuned
41:17
the weight distribution or or a little bit of something like
41:22
that to try to get the car to handle better, but I don't
41:25
remember the details. So I rewatch part of the
41:30
19/9/1999 Daytona 500 this morning and let's see if this
41:35
jogs your memory a little bit. So looked like you were, you
41:39
know, running pretty good. You know, stayed in the top 10
41:41
for most of the race, it seemed. And then with about 25 laps to
41:46
go, you got caught up in a big wreck.
41:49
Does that sound like your typical Daytona 500?
41:53
Yeah, which year? That sounds like most years.
41:58
Yeah, yeah. To me, that was your typical
42:01
Daytona 500, at least in the six car.
42:04
Yeah, I, you know, in, in early, early on when it was more of a
42:10
handling race. You know, I, I had other bad
42:15
luck. You know, we, we lost the
42:17
engines one year when they dropped the Jack to leave the
42:20
pits. I, I shared the pinion right off
42:24
the, you know, right off. Shared it right off like it the
42:29
car didn't move, it just revved up and just broke the gear off.
42:32
You know, I don't know how you do that, but it happened to me
42:36
and I remember, you know, waiting for them to change the
42:41
gear in the car and looking out there at the cars running and
42:45
just thinking, man, I should be out there, you know.
42:50
But a lot of times it was the wrecks.
42:53
I couldn't believe the 500 back then was so much longer.
42:59
There was so much attrition. Like not wrecks.
43:03
I'm talking about engine failures, you know, rear end
43:08
failures, electrical failure. Oh, there was just, there was
43:12
more attrition back then. And you'd be watching the race
43:16
knowing that my car was a 7th place or 10th place car, and
43:22
you'd see almost all of those guys that were better than you
43:26
fall out of the race. And you're thinking, yeah, if I
43:28
could have just stayed in this thing, you know?
43:32
But yeah, it was just really frustrating.
43:35
And it therefore got the World Center of Pain name for me.
43:41
Do. You remember when you coined
43:44
that term? When you started using that term
43:47
Exactly. I don't it was accumulation of,
43:52
you know, defeats at Daytona that have just, you know, I, I
43:56
just, you know, I wasn't fast enough, would go down there and
44:00
test for three days and not have speed and go home and go back.
44:05
And it just felt like I was taking a a spanking every time I
44:10
went down there. My probably my favorite Daytona
44:14
500 story of of yours is the 1990 Daytona 500.
44:18
Do you want to tell that story or you drank the cup of coffee
44:21
before the race? Oh yeah, so 1990 was the first
44:26
year I was sponsored by Folgers and I wasn't really a coffee
44:30
drinker at all. And I had hospitality and went
44:37
to the, you know, Folgers hospitality tent meeting, greet
44:42
people and stuff. And I had a cup of coffee.
44:46
And that was unique for me. And I, during the race, I needed
44:52
to go to the bathroom. So always the last thing I did
44:56
after intros would go straight to the porta John, you know, and
45:00
hit it right before we went to climb in the car.
45:04
That was my ritual routine and I had done that, but Oh my God, I
45:10
needed to go so bad. It was in pain.
45:14
Would have been happy to just go right in my seat, but I couldn't
45:18
because it's just too much, too too much intensity, you know,
45:23
you couldn't. Oh, lordy.
45:25
So anyway, we finished the race and back then we went into what
45:38
was at that time the Bush garage and went around then to the Cup
45:43
garage. And so as soon as I went through
45:45
the gate where the Bush garage was, of course the Bush cars
45:49
were gone. There were Porter John's right
45:51
there at that gate. And I knew that from because I'd
45:55
run the Bush car too, you know, and I was back and forth.
45:58
So I knew where. So I parked right there in front
46:00
of the Porter. John's got out and and I went in
46:05
in the porta John and use the bathroom and it took it seemed
46:09
like it took 15 minutes because I was still in so much pain that
46:14
I still couldn't relax. And yeah, that was that was a
46:18
lesson learned. I never drank a cup of coffee
46:22
again, ever in my career before a race.
46:26
Well you wouldn't even drink like any fluids like 2 hours or
46:30
so before a race if I recall correctly.
46:33
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I, you know, I just, you
46:37
know, I stayed hydrated all the time until race day morning and
46:42
then race day morning I started to restrict so that I could get
46:47
through the race without having to go.
46:49
But then I, I did hydrate during the race.
46:54
So it wasn't like I would get dehydrated because I was, I
46:58
would hydrate during the race. And as you sweat that that
47:04
really changes how much you have to when you sweat as much as,
47:08
you know, we did back then, you know, I would lose, you know,
47:14
seven. I weighed 120 and would lose 7
47:17
pounds, 8 lbs. And that was all fluid.
47:22
And so, you know, a lot of times you didn't get the need, the
47:26
urge to go in the car because you were sweating so much.
47:33
So getting back to 1999, when you guys came back to Daytona
47:38
for the July race, you got injured in happy hour and pretty
47:46
bad. Why don't you tell us about
47:48
that? So yeah, it was the final
47:53
practice on Friday, final practice and I had a really good
48:01
car. I thought I had a a better than
48:05
usual car down there. A car was driving really good
48:10
and I was out there in the pack, you know, and, and then I had
48:16
dropped back to toward the back of the pack because I was going
48:20
to come in. I did that on the front
48:22
straightaway because I was going to run down the backstretch.
48:25
Jack always liked a a clean cut which is running wide open and
48:29
then shut it off and that way he could read the spark plugs.
48:33
So I was going to run wide open down the backstretch and then
48:36
shut it down and come in. Well, when I went into one, the
48:41
right front blew and I was running middle of the track, so
48:45
I wasn't running the high side and I hit the wall hard.
48:51
I mean, you wouldn't think it, but it was one of them, one of
48:55
the more. Brutal hits and the car just
48:59
stayed in the wall and just grinded, you know, it broke the
49:02
brake rotor and everything and so it just grinded to a halt.
49:07
On the early part of the backstretch, it went all the way
49:09
through Turn 2 and out onto the backstretch.
49:14
And you know, I got out right away and as soon as my foot hit
49:20
the ground, I got dizzy. I mean dizzy like I was afraid I
49:25
might fall down. I still didn't think anything of
49:29
it. I just thought, man, I.
49:31
Took a beating here, but you know, then I started feeling the
49:36
pain in my wrist and in my, in my knee.
49:42
So of course they took me to the, the infield care center.
49:46
I didn't complain about my knee, you know, but you know, I did my
49:52
wrist. They X-rayed the wrist and I
49:55
heard them and they're talking, you know, they were in the other
49:58
room analyzing the, the X-ray and I, my heart sank into my
50:04
stomach said, yeah, it's broken. And so they come in there and I
50:12
already knew what they were going to tell me.
50:13
So we put a put a splint on it, which was just a plastic thing,
50:20
you know, it under my palm and up to here.
50:23
And then they wrapped it up. And that was that and.
50:28
So I went back to the coach and of course I was going to race
50:32
Saturday night. That was Friday afternoon or
50:35
Friday night, and of course I was going to race Saturday.
50:39
So, you know, the guys get the backup car ready and start her
50:44
in the back and, you know, don't run as good as I would like to.
50:51
And I'm really, really, really, really miserable.
50:55
By the way, I also did, you know, fracture a rib too, which
51:00
is really painful, but there's nothing to do about it.
51:03
So, so between, you know, my rib and my wrist, which was hurting,
51:11
I couldn't grip the steering wheel right with that, that
51:16
splint on. And it was my wrist was killing
51:21
me trying to hold the steering wheel.
51:23
And it just got worse and worse and worse.
51:25
And you know, I'm pretty grumpy at this time in my career.
51:30
It by the 90s, I'm grumpy all the time, but extremely grumpy
51:36
when things aren't going well and I'm not running good enough
51:40
and I'm in serious pain. So I'm like, give me a pair of
51:45
scissors on the next caution. And so I come in pit, they hand
51:52
me a pair of scissors and I cut that splint off.
51:59
And then I'm like, what I do with a scissor, 'cause I cut it
52:02
off after the pit stop. So I drive out.
52:04
So I'm on the racetrack, you know, I'm cautioned cutting this
52:08
thing off. I cut it off.
52:10
And then I'm like, what I do with these scissors?
52:14
Well, I don't want to throw them over there, you know, 'cause
52:15
then they'd be flopping around in the car.
52:19
I can't have that. I got to put them.
52:21
So I stuck them underneath my legs, underneath my seat.
52:28
Oh my God, man. Well, that's the best thing I
52:31
can figure out what to do with them.
52:33
And so I did and and grounded out.
52:37
I think I finished 17th with some people think is what's
52:41
pretty good under the circumstances, but I thought it
52:44
was horrendous. But yeah, that was a story.
52:47
I finished the race with the scissors under me in my seat.
52:50
So, and there's more to the story, so damn if my old knee
52:59
didn't hurt more on Sunday and he hurt even more on Monday.
53:06
So finally I told Benny Ertel that worked for me, 'cause he
53:10
knew all the doctors. He knew the doctor that actually
53:16
wound up doing my back fusion. Fusion and so he got it, got a
53:22
MRI lined up on Tuesday because I mean this thing, this knee is
53:26
the is the problem. It ain't my wrist.
53:30
And so we go get AMRI and on Wednesday morning, I load Matt
53:35
up in the quarter Midget and a couple of of boys that that work
53:42
for me and we go to the quarter Midget track in Orlando to test
53:46
Orlando's an hour from Daytona or 1/4 measure track is at
53:50
least. And so we're out there testing
53:54
and I'm, well, I'm hobbling around.
53:56
This thing's hurting. And I get a phone call.
54:01
My phone rings. It's Benny Mark, Doctor Comer
54:06
want you to go straight to the hospital now.
54:12
You got your knees broke. And so, and so, you know, I had
54:17
to pack up and head for, for the hospital.
54:20
I went to the hospital and that was Wednesday afternoon.
54:26
They put a, a screw in the tibula plateau.
54:31
And if you thought it was sore on Wednesday, you should have
54:35
seen how bad it hurt on Thursday.
54:37
I mean, this was one of the most painful things I'd ever done.
54:41
And Arlene wasn't very proud of of my decision.
54:47
But of course, Thursday, the next day, I get on my plane and
54:53
go to New Hampshire for the race.
54:56
And she didn't go. So I went up there, took Benny
55:01
with me and I went up there and stayed in the motorhome by
55:04
myself on crutches, couldn't walk in magnificent pain.
55:11
And Friday morning I go up to the garage area and the boys
55:16
have to lift me in and in in the car for practice and they push
55:22
it out of the garage and I put it in first gear and I started
55:25
in first and I right foot brake in practice and never use the
55:32
clutch. You know, I don't, I don't use
55:34
the clutch at all. So I started in gear and drive
55:38
it off and we do our practicing. And then it was time for
55:44
qualifying and NASCAR wouldn't let Benny drive me.
55:51
If you know where the garage area is in New Hampshire, well,
55:55
qualifying you left at the end of Pit Rd.
55:58
The other end of the racetrack is about a half a mile.
56:02
And they wouldn't let Benny take me down there on a golf cart.
56:06
So I had to walk down there to go qualify.
56:11
And I remember that being the most painful, one of the most
56:16
painful weekends that that Friday was I got through
56:19
practice on Saturday and then on Sunday I used it, used it for
56:23
the clutch and, and, and did the clutch.
56:26
But I guess we ran OK there. Again, not spectacular, but we
56:33
didn't lose. You know, I was chasing a
56:35
championship. I wasn't going to ever give up a
56:39
spot, much less a race. And so we did it and we we got
56:46
got better after a while. But years later, damn, things
56:51
started hurting again. And I went and saw Comber and he
56:54
said, hey, that screws backing out.
56:57
So they took the screw out then at that point, but who?
57:00
Whoever has a screw put in her bone and it backs out.
57:04
Only me I guess I don't. Know it's pretty crazy.
57:08
Well, yeah, you know, it's it's pretty wild, man.
57:10
And you know, after that Daytona race, you know, as far as your
57:14
finishes go, if you just look at them on paper, I mean, you
57:17
wouldn't really, you wouldn't think that, you know, your
57:22
injuries really affected your performance that much.
57:25
But I mean, I would think that they certainly had to at least
57:28
the, you know, next couple races.
57:30
But you still had, you know, good finishes.
57:33
But what's so surreal to me, though, is when you watch those
57:37
clips back is that, you know, all the commentators are
57:41
bragging on you like they're they're hyping up that you're
57:44
hurt and injured and that your guys have to put you in the car
57:48
and take you out. You know, and it's like that is
57:53
dude, today, like there's that's just night and day, man.
57:58
I mean, it's just great. I mean, they would NASCAR
58:00
wouldn't even let you race if you that happened today.
58:03
I mean, now you would be forced to take off, but it's just
58:08
totally different. Yeah, it is it, you know, it it,
58:14
Yeah, it's, it's just amazing that how, how he lived.
58:18
I mean, you know, it wasn't just me.
58:20
I mean, Ricky Rudd, you know, pulling his eyes up, eyelids up
58:25
because, you know, they were so swollen.
58:28
I mean, that's just what you did.
58:30
That's just what you did back then.
58:32
Nobody missed a race for any reason, you know, unless it was
58:37
really a bad break. I mean, you had Kyle Petty and
58:41
Darryl Waltrip had serious broken legs where where they
58:46
didn't race. But you know, even what was
58:51
almost 20 years before that, you know, when in my late model,
58:56
when I broke my left foot and ankle in four places, I, I raced
59:01
again in 30 days and I had to put a hand clutch in the car so
59:05
that I could do pit stops. So it just was a different era.
59:11
And that's one of the things that's interesting for our fans
59:15
to listen to today is because you know, if you think, if you
59:19
think 1999 was a wild era, you should look at 1969 before my
59:26
time. I mean, these guys drove these
59:30
these cars that were, I mean, the cars were not safe in 99 at
59:36
all, especially for the speed. But gosh, in 1969 it was it was
59:43
insane. It was all about how fast can we
59:46
make this car go and no attention at all really given to
59:52
to safety. All right, awesome stories
59:55
there. We're right at an hour.
59:57
So unless you guys got anything else, I was thinking also, do
1:00:00
you guys want to do picks? You want to do a pick for the
1:00:02
Daytona 500? Looking right now at at
1:00:05
DraftKings, the odds, Denny Hamlin is the favorite at +900.
1:00:11
And then you have William Byron, Ryan Blaney, Kyle Larson, they
1:00:15
would be the second favorites. Then you got Logano.
1:00:19
Kyle Busch is actually right up there.
1:00:21
Austin Syndrich, Chase Elliott, Bubba Wallace, Alex Bowman, Ryan
1:00:25
Priest, Chase Briscoe. Those are like your top 10 or 12
1:00:28
favorites according to the the sports books.
1:00:30
Do you guys got anybody that you're thinking is going to win
1:00:33
this thing? Matt, you go first.
1:00:37
Man, Daytona 500, I mean, that's just like, it's a wild card,
1:00:41
man. You just have no idea really.
1:00:43
But I would say who I would like to see win the most.
1:00:47
I mean, I, I like, you know, a lot of those guys, but I mean,
1:00:51
for sure Denny Hamlin with everything that's happened.
1:00:54
But also, you know, Kyle Busch, I mean, he needs a win and to
1:00:57
win the Daytona 500 for him, that would be great.
1:01:00
So one of those two guys I'd like to see win.
1:01:04
I'm with you, Matt, on both those guys, but you know, we may
1:01:09
have a surprise. It would be incredible,
1:01:15
incredible if Corey Lajoie could win the race in ARFK car.
1:01:24
Yeah, yeah, you guys, you guys stole mine.
1:01:26
I was going to say Kyle Busch. I was surprised his odds were
1:01:30
that high. And then this one, I mean, heck,
1:01:33
he's almost the favorite. I feel like just looking.
1:01:35
Ryan Blaney jumped out to me. Ryan Blaney.
1:01:39
So I'll I'll pick Blaney just because you guys already picked
1:01:41
Kyle Busch there. OK.
1:01:43
Yeah, I'd like to see Ryan win too, man.
1:01:45
For sure, yeah. That'd be awesome.
1:01:47
All right, well, Daytona 500 is here.
1:01:50
NASCAR season is officially here.
1:01:52
Great show. This was awesome.
1:01:54
Episode 5 of the Mark Martin Archive podcast.
1:01:57
Thanks a lot, guys. We'll see you next week after
1:02:00
the Daytona 500 from the World Center of Pain.
1:02:05
All right. Thank you guys.