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Difference Makers Discuss Live - Charting a Diverse Path: Kudzai Zendara's Journey in Finance and the Future of Accountancy · Difference Makers Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: To the next episode of Chartered Accountants Worldwide Difference Makers Discuss.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I'm Sinead Donovan, president of Chartered Accountants Ireland, and I'm delighted to be joined today by Kudzai Zendara, who is the representative from Chartered Accountant Scotland, and he is going to talk to us about his career, about his life experiences and really just try and impart some knowledge to the listeners about the importance of being a Chartered Accountant and some of his learnings along the way.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So, kudzai, you're very, very welcome.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going to start off by asking you to maybe introduce yourself to the audience, maybe talking a little bit about your journey to date and about where you are currently working and the role you're in, if that's okay.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: So thank you very much.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: My name's Kudzai Zendera.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I'll kind of start at the beginning, right at the beginning, but quickly.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Born in the UK, lived in the UK till I was about 13, moved over to Zimbabwe for all my high school, then came back to the UK where I studied at the University of Manchester University of Manchester and from there pursued my career with PWC in London, which is where I studied as a chartered accountant with ICAS and from there, sort of after working for four years or so within external audit, I joined the Royal Bank of Scotland, which is now more commonly identified as NatWest Bank, where I worked across finance and treasury for about sort of between eight and nine years, and that was great fun.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: And then I joined Standard Chartered Bank, where I've been for the last four years or so, and I currently work in the treasury markets function of that bank in a sort of balance sheet and liquidity management capacity.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Brilliant and okay.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So from the UK to Zimbabwe, back to London and tell me about your schooling in Zimbabwe.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Was there a rationale for going there for schooling?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, good question.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So look, I'm, you know, whilst born, I'm born in the UK.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I'm Zimbabwean originally, so both of my parents are from Zimbabwe, which, for anyone who's kind of not familiar, is in Southern Africa, family still in Zimbabwe as well.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And so myself and my two brothers, my parents, were very keen for us to experience an African education, both in the sense of the formal education system but also just the benefit from sort of the life experience of growing up there.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: So myself and my two brothers all moved with the intention that we would uh stay there for the duration of completing high school.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Um, so for myself, actually, I moved right at the beginning so I did the full sort of uh years of high school and then came back, um, but that was the intention, uh, and to your experience of how was it, I guess it was great when you move as a child as well, my experience these things are fun.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: There's kind of school as it was at the time, is like a ready-made ecosystem that you just are able to dive into, took care of all my sort of social network, friendship network it was all formed at school.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I was very fortunate that I was able to start day one of secondary school, so I didn't have the difficulties of trying to integrate midway through a school year, um so so it was great in a very different school life, to kind of how it is here in terms of you're very forced to of course that's the wrong word but you're really encouraged to get involved in all aspects of school life.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: It's not just about going and doing your learning and coming home.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: There's a whole real vibrancy to being a student in school in Zimbabwe.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: That's great, and I suppose you kind of found your own community there and your own tribe and your friends and all the rest, which is desperately important as a youngster.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the friends I made from school are still my friends today, and even I don't see them because we're all over the world.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I don't see them as often, but you know we speak regularly on WhatsApp, see them as often.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: But you know we we speak regularly on whatsapp and I know, if I happen to land in a country that one of them is in or vice versa, um, like it'll be as though we've sort of not been separated brilliant, brilliant.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: And then tell me um, why?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Why chartered accountancy?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: What?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: What was the driving force to?
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: To bring you into the profession?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: The driving force, that's probably the two main ones, I would say the academic system and curriculum in Zimbabwe, as it was at the time, was very traditional in terms of the subjects that you studied and the career paths that you pursued or encouraged to pursue thereafter.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So what I mean by that is it was quite common to sort of be in school and think right, I'm either going to be a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant, and for me, accountancy and the subjects that I studied at the time that would pursue me to that path were the ones I was most interested in.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So I enjoyed it.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Frankly might sound nerdy, but I enjoyed sort of business studies and accountancy.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: When I went to uni I studied an accountancy related degree and when I was back there was no no doubt in my mind that I wanted to join one of the big four.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I interned with KPMG.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I then joined PwC as a graduate, so for me, I was always minded to move into accountancy.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Brother and my dad are also chartered accountants, so that may have influenced albeit they never actively said you know, this is something you should do, but subconsciously it may have had an impact as well very good it's.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: It's funny the.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: You know the.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: The amount of family connections in the profession is huge, and so I think I think're right.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I think there undoubtedly is a subconscious bias there when you have a family member who's a charged accountant.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So can I bring you up to today?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So I know one of the main reasons that Charged Accountant Scotland has put you forward as their representative is because of the work that you've done in the dni space.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Uh, in particular um and and I know that's something that started for you um in in standard chartered um.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Do you want to, do you want to tell me a little bit about um, how you got into the, the arena and and what your, your, your again, your driving forces are behind it yeah, sure I will do that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it really took off to a large extent when I was at Standard Chartered, but I think earlier on in my career and even when I was in school I have done things around, sort of just giving back.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So whether that's in Zimbabwe, we used to run a night school teaching program actually at the time.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So how that worked was the staff who worked on the grounds and around the school would come in once a week after the school timetable had finished and they would be taught English, maths and science by students within the school, so I volunteered for that by students within the school, so I volunteered for that.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It was a way of kind of giving back and helping them to pursue their what we would call O-levels, but the equivalent is GCSEs, so that's something I did.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: So I've probably always had some form of helping out in some way, whether that's work experience or initiatives like that.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: But to your point and when I, I'd say, got into it a bit more seriously.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: So if you go a few years back, I think the death of George Floyd was, within the UK and around the world, a kind of awakening for a lot of people and a catalyst for people feeling either compelled or comfortable with sharing their life experience, in particular what being an ethnic minority within whatever country they were in, had meant for them.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And I think while that was going on and people were sharing stories and I was seeing organizations also kind of responding to what had happened by reaffirming their core values and beliefs, I myself also felt compelled to share my experiences of growing up as a black person within and outside of the workplace within the UK.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Now I did that by sending an open letter to the CEO of Standard Chartered Bank.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I emailed him one evening with an open letter to shout out to my wife, because she was very supportive and encouraging of that.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So I did that.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: He responded within about 24 hours and sort of said hey, thanks for sharing this.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: How about you and I speak one to one, which was not something I was expecting, but that took place.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: We had a very sort of positive conversation and that was a very positive experience for me.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I shared that online on social media, so I shared the open letter and just the conversation I'd had with the CEO as well and I think through that I mean I was kind of naive to how LinkedIn works at the time, but it got quite a bit of traction and I guess it was viewed within and outside of my workplace and landed on ICAS's radar as well and ICAS invited me to be a part of their ED&I network.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So that's how I became involved with ICAS.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I'm a member of their ED&I network and through that and I have been for the last two years or so and through that we've had a good partnership.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: There is so much to unpack there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: So, if you don't mind, I just want to just want to kind of drill into a few things.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So so key decisions there.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Key moments was was obviously the decision to send the open letter.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Um, was there a particular ask in that of the ce?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Or when you said that you were surprised that maybe he or she I'm not sure responded so quickly.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I suppose that's another sliding doors moment.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: So the decision for you to send it and then the response of the CEO.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about that.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah sure, talk to me about that, yeah, sure.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So I think the decision to send it and I probably didn't explain it sort of well enough as to why I did it so I think at the time it felt like a lot of the conversation was very US centric, right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So what had what the world had witnessed in the US was clearly quite barbaric and wrong, right.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: But a lot of the conversation and analysis also seemed very centered on US society and in my mind I was thinking there is a version of this in the UK.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's not the same, it's not as outward and as brutal and as in your face and as obvious, but there is a version of this in the UK that doesn't appear to be either getting talked about or acknowledged.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: What I'm seeing are people, ceos, etc.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Talking about the events of the US, perhaps not realizing that within their own organizations and on their own doorstep there is a lived experience which is similar that people can identify with, and so my letter was more around around.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I just want you to be aware of what that experience in the us has been like for me within the uk.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Um, so it really was more just to share an open eyes, so to speak, um, I would say um, there wasn't a particular ask beyond, just look.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I hope you find this in some ways useful and enlightening and it spurs some form of change within our workplace to say things are bad in the workplace, but form of recognition and, you know, awareness, because my experience can't be completely unique.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there are others who have had something similar, so that that's what made me send it.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I think sliding doors moment, yeah, I mean, look, when the ceo of a global bank, um, takes the time to respond, not delegating the response to someone else, but respond directly and in a way that says let let's speak one to one.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: That was definitely unexpected but really positively so, and I think for me it really encouraged me to feel more comfortable with speaking up to help play a part in normalizing the discussion of such things within the workplace.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: It made me want to get involved with what our bank does in general to try and foster sort of diversity and inclusion.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So, in short, it gave me a spring, it put a spring in my step to contribute and it made me feel very comfortable about.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You know, if there's one thing it did, it made me think if I can feel comfortable enough to reach out to the CEO and he can be kind enough to reply in the way that he did then.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I feel comfortable enough to approach anybody with things like this.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, two key takeaways for me there, just as you spoke and I think I found that really, really, actually inspiring was the two key takeaways is one, as you say, have the courage to send, you know, thoughts and opinions, and you know, because that did take courage on your part to send that.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: But then the leadership that the CEO showed by responding personally and, as you use the word, with kindness there you know that's such an important trait of a leader.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Um, so so yeah, I think there to me are the the takeaways.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So from that you got involved in I think was it the ERG group in in Chartered and, as you say, then it opened doors into ICAS and I know you're the inaugural or were the inaugural chair of the ICAS Black Members Network.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: So you've kind of continued the journey on through the profession.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, precisely so, yeah, I did get involved.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Firstly, standard chartered uh employee resource group.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: For anyone who hears ERG and is wondering what that is employee resource group.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: No, that's fine.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: So, um, it's essentially a, uh, a network led by employees for employees, um, that focuses on racial diversity and equality within the UK bank.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I got involved with that as a committee member and led sort of several initiatives over a period of years.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Laterally I then got involved with ICAS as well and, as you mentioned, through being involved in the ICAST sort of ED&I committee.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Within that committee it was kind of suggested, if you like, the idea was mooted as to having together, network, share experiences, share stories, give back.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: You know there's a real growing need of people who have gone through their careers who say look, I would love to speak to the next generation of students coming through, share my career story, see how I can help help them navigate and or avoid some of the challenges that I experienced coming through, just provide some guidance.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So, and you know we are live with that currently we have plans to kind of hold events through the year and become bigger than what we are at the moment.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: But you know, as a start point we point we've definitely, you know, got a good sort of an ambitious pipeline ahead of us that's brilliant.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Congratulations and and look, I mean a real shout out also to icas, because I was at an event there recently with um, with your, with your institute and and I learned about the foundation that icas have and and the foundation that that is 10 years old this year and and how much that has opened up the profession and the qualification to people that it would not necessarily have been able to enter the profession and study.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: So I think the whole DE&I value set and belief in ICAS is phenomenal, so shout out to everybody there.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Kudai, you mentioned there your wife and the impact and influence of your wife and supporting you, and I know you have family as well.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: From our previous chat Talk to me about you know, kind of the balance of work and family and it's a busy world and and how, how do you, how do you navigate all that?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: yeah, sure, um, of course, there's no way I could not mention my wife or my two kids.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: They are central.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, I think it's a really interesting question because, um, if I think about how my career has developed which I think will be similar for a lot of people, right, right from the beginning, my experience was within a big four.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: People may be outside of a big four, but that period where you are studying to pursue your qualification is intense.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Right, you're working, you're studying, you're giving up free time.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: It's pretty intense Even once you've finished and you've obtained your qualification and you're sort of going for post-qualified roles within your existing institution or leaving to pursue roles elsewhere.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: You know you are generally taking on more responsibilities and often being quite willing to give up a lot of time to work to, to try and progress, etc.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Now, that is always easier to do when the only person you have to look after is yourself, right, uh, it becomes more challenging as you go through life, and that's even before, before kids, whether you start dating a girlfriend, a boyfriend, whatever.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: As soon as you have to start apportioning time, it becomes more challenging, especially so, as I'm finding.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: When you have dependents you have a wife, you have you know every relationship needs to be nurtured.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: They don't just flourish by chance, and there is a recognition that you have to give that work is busy, but as far as possible I need to make time for the other things as well.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and so one thing I will definitely that has definitely been my experience is that raising young children requires a partnership, and in that case I'm talking about my wife.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: It is not a burden that can be solely met by either person.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: It absolutely requires two people to try as far as possible to meet each other in the middle in order to discharge, kind of, those parental responsibilities and sort of give your kids the time and attention and the love that they need.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: So to work as intensely as possible when I'm in the office.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: But when I leave the office I'll try as best as possible to leave work.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Now, that's not always possible and sometimes the work follows me home and my wife is very understanding of that and the sacrifices.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry what that means for her you know, because it takes until you know that that requires some adjustment as well.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: But, um, trying to balance work and family, uh, yeah, it's hard, um, and it requires two people, it requires a partnership.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I'd say that yeah, look, and thank you for that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: It got a little bit.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: It got a little bit choppy there in the middle, but I think what you were saying was that, um, you know, the importance is about being present.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So when you're in work, you're in work, and when you're at home, you're at home.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And I think they are really important takeaways because in this manic world where we're on call 24-7 and we've got phones, we've got iPads and all the rest, multitasking has become a buzzword.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But actually I think, when it comes to family, we should actually just quit the multitasking and focus on them when we're with them.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So, look, I think they're great words and, do you know, it's really refreshing to hear that from a dad, because sometimes it can just be the narrative of a mum and a working mum, and I think it's really good to hear that rhetoric from a dad.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much for that and continued success in juggling it.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So talk to me a bit about your professional career.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So you've obviously kind of decided on the banking route, on the financial services route.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Was that a deliberate choice?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Was that, were you very focused on where you were going and had a?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Had a north star that you followed or, or, or, or.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: How did it all come about?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: fine.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Um, so I've never really had a north star, so to speak, um other than the fact that I knew for sure I wanted to pursue accountancy and I knew for sure that I wanted to work within the big board.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And, specifically, I knew I wanted to work at PwC.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I think thereafter I have always tended to, if you like, do a job until the point in time that I no longer enjoy doing it or I see the industry changing.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Those two things probably require a bit of explanation.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I think in terms of my time at PwC as an external auditor, that was probably a move that was, you know, the catalyst for that move just became a realization that this wasn't what I wanted to do with my career.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Right, and at that time I thought um, of course there's been a lot of news around banks and the financial crash.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I don't really understand much about banks.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Might be interesting to go and work in a bank and figure out what this is kind of about.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: So that's really what influenced that move, um, and that's how I ended up joining the royal bank of scotland, I think.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Thereafter, within banks, one of the things that I've definitely witnessed and experienced and this was not the case when I was at pwc is you do.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You do see how your industry changes when you're working within it.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: So banks have changed massively through to, you know, financial failures, through to regulation, through to changes in operating models, cost pressures, extra.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: That doesn't have an influence on, you know, hiring and firing, but it also has an influence on the type of work that is topical within a bank and valued within a bank and you kind of at times have to move with where your industry is moving in terms of the knowledge that is being requested and that is being valued.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I have tended to sort of, as I said, I started off in a finance role and a sort of more pure management reporting role and into areas like treasury where there's bits to do with regulation etc.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: At times I have seen where the industry is changing and where the focus of management and regulators etc is, and I've tended to move towards that.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: It's also happened to align with my area of interest.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So really, what I'm trying to say is I've tended to do roles until I've not enjoyed doing them, until I've thought.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think it's more beneficial for me to go and now acquire this type of experience and skill set, because I think this is where the industry is going and this is what's going to be valued.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: They've tended to shape my moves, so it's not really been a north star, it's more been a where can I develop next?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the consequence of that is, you know, in my case it feels like I'm often moving out of a comfort zone into a place of just unknown, uncertainty, discomfort, which ultimately, I think is serving me quite well.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: But it does take quite a lot of, uh, resilience it does, it does and and it's interesting that you, you know, you've acknowledged that move out of the comfort zone but that if you step out of the comfort zone and try and work through it, you you kind of get into the growth zone and you know, but it's getting that balance right as to when to step out and for how long to step out.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that one of your driving forces is the enjoyment factor and whilst that shouldn't be interesting, it should be a no-brainer um I, I, I don't think everybody acknowledges that that it is really important to enjoy what you do and enjoy, enjoy your work and and you've obviously, you've obviously nailed that good, zion, and really follow your instinct yeah, and I think let me expand on that a bit more right.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to realize that the thing that you enjoy doing today is not necessarily going to be the thing that you still enjoy doing multiple years down the line.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So I've always gone into a role and loved doing it for a period of time, but it gets to a point where you think, no, you know, I'm I'm ready for something different.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: I've taken from this role what I want to take from it in terms of technical skills or soft skills.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think spending more time in this role is going to incrementally benefit me much more.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: There is much more breadth or experience to be gained, perhaps by stepping into a completely different space.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Now, that doesn't work for everyone, but that has tended to be the case for me.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Um, but as I said I I haven't necessarily been suffering roles.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I've been enjoying roles.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: But as you grow as a person, as you gain more experiences, you see more the things that you want to do and learn change and therefore it gets to a point once you know, once for me, I reach that point.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I really want to go and do something else.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's kind of how I'd explain that.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, every time, every role was the right role for me.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that's great.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's great advice as well, that as your life cycle changes, your wants and your needs might change.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Chartered accountancy as a qualification do you think it's well set to give us that depth and breadth and the ability to change and navigate changes, or do you think there's something we can do more to educate our our new members?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: yeah sure.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I think, look for me that the qualification has served me well.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: It's allowed me to have, um, a fruitful career and a career with growth and breadth, et cetera.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I think one thing that's important to acknowledge is that, you know, the world is always changing, right, and that change influences how we work, ie use of technology, et cetera.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: But it also influences how people want to make money, and it's not necessarily exactly the same way, it's not necessarily just through a traditional path where I have a contract with an organization and I work for my entire career as an employee, etc.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: So, um, I think there is potentially something that the profession can do with making sort of numerate profession, or not just the core skills of managing money, managing your finances, investing your finances, your money in a bank and investing it in different avenues, and what those avenues are and what the risks and benefits are to those different approaches.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Even that right, it's quite possible, at least when I did my qualification, to come all the way through your ICAS qualification and have absolutely no concept, recognition, appreciation or awareness of any of those things.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And I think, if we're teaching people to be financially literate um, not just book smart, that is is certainly something that could be a feature of the qualification yeah, um, and I think all those concepts really mirror what, uh, we heard.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: We we did a global think tank there of younger leaders when, when I say we Chartered Captains worldwide, we brought a number of younger leaders from the Chartered Captains bodies together here in Ireland and we just kind of brainstormed about what the profession needed to do to maybe change or grow with the changing environment, and I think they were some of the things that came out which was just kind of, you know, staying flexible and staying present to the changing landscape, including AI, including technology, including, you know, even basic entrepreneurship.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I think that became a real point that members, or younger members, wanted.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: They wanted to understand more about entrepreneurship and understand more about the risks as you said there, the risks and the rewards.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: So, look, I think, I think it's all stuff that we need to do as a, as a profession, because you're, you're, you're obviously move at a very fast pace.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: You obviously want to achieve a lot and have achieved a lot, want to achieve a lot and have achieved a lot.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: What?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: What do you see for the next number of years?
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Or what do you?
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: What would you like to achieve or do you have?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Do you have thoughts on that?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: you know I never like to look necessarily too too far ahead, particularly in an industry like this which, uh, constantly changes and at the moment there's been quite a lot in the news with banks and change and headcount reductions etc.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: But at the same time I have an open mind.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I think you know it's really important to make the most of the opportunities that are in front of you.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I'm fortunate enough to work for a global bank that's present in about 60 markets.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: With that comes opportunity.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Should that opportunity be right for myself, for my family, for my children?
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, from a work perspective, it's about again growing, looking to take advantage of the opportunities before me, looking for roles that benefit, uh, and are additive to the experience that I have, and roles that I know I can contribute positively to, I think, outside of the workplace.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: You know it's 10 years of blissful marriage.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: For me this year it's about making sure that my wife stays central to everything that I'm doing and that our relationship continues to grow.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: My children are young, four and seven.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: It's about making sure they know exactly that their daddy is there for them every second of every day, and so is their mummy.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: So I think family are central to whatever is going to happen in my life over the next few years.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Lovely, kudzai.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Your value set is very strong and it's a lovely way to end the podcast.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for talking to us, but I also want to thank you for all the contribution you've made to the profession, but also the DE&I space, and very best of luck in everything you do going forward.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we have not heard the last of you, so thank you and best of luck.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Heard the last of you, so thank you and best of luck.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: And thank you to everybody for joining us today and for staying with us till the end.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I have thoroughly enjoyed speaking to the ICAST representative, kudzai Zandara, and I look forward to seeing you again for the next session.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Goodbye.