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Charlie Kirk Accused Assassin Calls for Entire Prosecutor's Office Recusal · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk's alleged killer, Tyler Robinson,
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  Speaker 1: the so called assassin, demands the top prosecutor be thrown
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  Speaker 1: off his case. I had that happened to me many
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  Speaker 1: many times in court move number one, just as I
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  Speaker 1: was about to go to trial, all that prep work,
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  Speaker 1: the defense would jump up with emotion to have me
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  Speaker 1: thrown off the case for various reasons.
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  Speaker 2: It never worked.
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  Speaker 3: It was just.
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  Speaker 1: Another problem to deal with when you need to focus
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  Speaker 1: on your case. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. That's right,
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  Speaker 1: you heard me. Charlie Kirk's alleged assassin, Tyler Robinson, demands
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  Speaker 1: the top prosecutor in his case be thrown off A
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  Speaker 1: Utah judge hearing the allegations against the prosecutor, Judge Tony Graff,
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  Speaker 1: first determined the Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Gray's decision to
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  Speaker 1: pursue the death penalty was not influenced by the daughter
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  Speaker 1: of another prosecutor within the office. That daughter of a
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  Speaker 1: co worker, who is Chad Grunnader, was present when Charlie
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  Speaker 1: Kirk was gunned down last September ten that had been
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  Speaker 1: thrown at. Judge Graf that the death penalty should be
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  Speaker 1: taken off the table because it was influenced by the
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  Speaker 1: daughter of the prosecutor's co worker. Well, that didn't work.
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  Speaker 2: You can see. The defense is trying everything. Now.
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  Speaker 1: The alleged killer wants the prosecutor thrown off the case.
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  Speaker 4: Nancy Robinson's request for the entire Utah County Prosecutor's office
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  Speaker 4: to be recused from his case has been denied. The
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  Speaker 4: defense claims a potential conflict of interest has been mishandled.
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  Speaker 4: A lead prosecutor's child was at the event where Charlie
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  Speaker 4: Kirk was assassinated, and that, according to the defense, tainted
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  Speaker 4: the office's decisions, but a judge has ruled the child's
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  Speaker 4: attendants did not materially influence prosecutor's actions. Deputy Attorney Chad
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  Speaker 4: Grunander's eighteen year old daughter is a student at Utah
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  Speaker 4: Valley University, where the assassination took place. He testified his
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  Speaker 4: child attended the Turning Point USA event where Kirk was
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  Speaker 4: shot last year. The teen did not see the federal
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  Speaker 4: movement or witness anybody in the crowd who may have
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  Speaker 4: been a suspect.
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  Speaker 2: According to prosecutors.
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  Speaker 4: Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Gray appointed Grunander as one of
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  Speaker 4: the prosecuting attorneys. He told the court the child's presence
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  Speaker 4: was completely irrelevant to the decisions made in the case.
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  Speaker 4: Utah District Court Judge Tony Graff agreed. Robinson has not
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  Speaker 4: yet entered pleased for the charges he's facing it, including
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  Speaker 4: aggravated murder, fell in the use of a firearm, obstruction
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  Speaker 4: of justice, and witnessed hampering, along with several victim targeting enhancements,
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  Speaker 4: and an aggravated factor of having committed a violent offense
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  Speaker 4: in the presence of the child. His preliminary hearing has
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  Speaker 4: been moved to July. I remember the whole thing like
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  Speaker 4: it happened last night.
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  Speaker 1: The lone shooter, the assassin that gunned down thirty one
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  Speaker 1: year old Charlie Kirk.
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  Speaker 5: With a high degree of certainty, we have him.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We got him.
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  Speaker 2: A massive manhunt.
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  Speaker 6: The suspect was taken into custody at ten pm local time.
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  Speaker 1: The assassin who gunned down a loving father of to
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  Speaker 1: a husband.
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  Speaker 6: The suspect was apprehended in historic time period.
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  Speaker 5: Right custody, Okay, in custody.
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  Speaker 1: The assassin who guns down a father of two.
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  Speaker 7: He's observed on video in a plain maroon T shirt,
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  Speaker 7: light colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo,
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  Speaker 7: and light colored shoes, arriving on UVU campus and a
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  Speaker 7: Great Dodge Challenger at approximately eight twenty nine, A M.
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  Speaker 3: Tyler Robinson.
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  Speaker 7: Robinson had become more political in recent years. A second
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  Speaker 7: unfired casing red, oh, bellichow, bellichow, Bellichow, chow chow. And
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  Speaker 7: a third unfired casing red if you read this you
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  Speaker 7: are gay.
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  Speaker 1: His wife and two little children who will grow up
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  Speaker 1: without daddy.
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  Speaker 7: This is a very sad day for again for our country.
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  Speaker 8: And I do know this is going to be a
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  Speaker 8: federal case. And there's many of us believe that Charlie
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  Speaker 8: was targeted because of this political ideology. Yeah, what's going
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  Speaker 8: to happen to this guy?
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  Speaker 9: Well, I hope he's going to be found guilty, I
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  Speaker 9: would imagine, and I hope he gets to death.
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  Speaker 5: Federal day.
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  Speaker 7: On the evening of September eleventh, a family member of
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  Speaker 7: Tyler Robinson reached out to a family friend who contacted
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  Speaker 7: the Washington County Sheriff's Office with information that Robinson had
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  Speaker 7: confessed to them or implied that he had committed the incident.
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  Speaker 7: This information was relayed to the Utah County Sheriff's Office
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  Speaker 7: and seen investigators at Utah Valley University. This information was
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  Speaker 7: also conveyed to the FBI. Investigators reviewed additional video footage
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  Speaker 7: from UVU surveillance and identified Robinson arriving on UVU campus
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  Speaker 7: in a Great Dodge Challenger at approximately eight twenty nine
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  Speaker 7: am on September tenth, in which he is observed on
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  Speaker 7: video in a Plaine maroon T shirt, light colored shorts,
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  Speaker 7: a black hat with a white logo, and light colored shoes.
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  Speaker 7: When encountered in person by investigators in Washington County on
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  Speaker 7: September twelfth in the early morning hours, Robinson was observed
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  Speaker 7: in consistent clothing with those surveillance images. Investigators interviewed a
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  Speaker 7: family member of Robinson whose dated that Robinson had become
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  Speaker 7: more political in recent years. The family member referenced a
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  Speaker 7: recent incident in which Robinson came to dinner prior to
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  Speaker 7: September tenth, and in the conversation with another family member,
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  Speaker 7: Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was.
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  Speaker 3: Coming to UVU.
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  Speaker 7: They talked about why they didn't like him and the
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  Speaker 7: viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk
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  Speaker 7: was full of hate and spreading hate. The family member
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  Speaker 7: also confirmed Robinson had a gray Dodge challenger. Investigators identified
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  Speaker 7: an individual as the roommate of Robinson. Investigators interviewed that roommate,
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  Speaker 7: who stated that his roommate, referring to Robinson, made a
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  Speaker 7: joke on discord. Investigators asked if he would show them
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  Speaker 7: the messages on discord. He opened it and showed several
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  Speaker 7: messages to investigators and allowed investigators to take photos of
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  Speaker 7: the screen as each message was shown by Robinson's roommate.
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  Speaker 7: These photos consisted of various messages, including content of messages
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  Speaker 7: bud between the phone contact named Tyler with an emoji
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  Speaker 7: icon and Robinson's roommate's device. The content of these messages
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  Speaker 7: included messages affiliated with the contact Tyler, stating a need
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  Speaker 7: to retrieve a rifle from a drop point, leaving the
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  Speaker 7: rifle in a bush, messages related to visually watching the
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  Speaker 7: area where a rifle was left, and a message referring
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  Speaker 7: to having left the rifle wrapped in a towel. The
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  Speaker 7: messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of
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  Speaker 7: a scope and the rifle being unique messages from the contact.
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  Speaker 7: Tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits.
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  Speaker 2: I know there has been.
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  Speaker 7: Speculation as well as to the writing on those casings,
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  Speaker 7: those bullet casings, and I believe we have that as well,
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  Speaker 7: and I will share that with you now. So, the
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  Speaker 7: area north of Campus Drive Road where the suspect crossed over,
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  Speaker 7: you saw some of that in the video that we
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  Speaker 7: released last night, consists of a grassy area with trees.
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  Speaker 3: On the edge of the UVU.
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  Speaker 7: Campus, investigators discovered a bolt action rifle wrapped in a
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  Speaker 7: dark colored towel. The rifle was determined to be a
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  Speaker 7: Mauser Model ninety eight thirty yacht six thirty six caliber
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  Speaker 7: bolt action rifle. The rifle had a scope mounted on
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  Speaker 7: top of it. Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved
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  Speaker 7: on casings found with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired
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  Speaker 7: casing read notices, bulges, capital, WO, What's this question mark.
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  Speaker 7: Inscriptions on the three unfired casings read hey, fascist, exclamation point, catch,
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  Speaker 7: exclamation point, up arrow symbol, right arrow, and bimbo and
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  Speaker 7: three down arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read oh, bellichow, bellichow, bellichow,
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  Speaker 7: chow chow. And a third unfired casing read if you
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  Speaker 7: read this, you are gay LMAO.
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  Speaker 6: A little bit of the timeline. Charlie was shot at
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  Speaker 6: twelve twenty three pm on Wednesday. The first FBI agents
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  Speaker 6: arrived on scene in sixteen minutes with chiefs of police
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  Speaker 6: at twelve thirty nine and secured the scene. The FBI
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  Speaker 6: immediately launched fixed wing assets. We utilized these assets to
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  Speaker 6: transport personnel, specialty technicians, hasa's rescue teams. We also utilize
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  Speaker 6: these assets to go back and forth from the East
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  Speaker 6: Coast and here in Utah to transport forensic evidence and
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  Speaker 6: other evidence that will be analyzed and is being analyzed
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  Speaker 6: at our FBI laboratories in Quantico and other laboratories including
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  Speaker 6: the ATF in my direction. The FBI released the first
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  Speaker 6: set of FBI photos of the suspect at ten am
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  Speaker 6: local time on nine to eleven, Then shortly thereafter, the
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  Speaker 6: FBI reward of one hundred thousand dollars was released at
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  Speaker 6: ten forty five am Local myself and Deputy Director Bonino
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  Speaker 6: arrived on the scene at approximately five thirty PM on
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  Speaker 6: nine to eleven. The Governor led a press conference last
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  Speaker 6: night at approximate eight pm, where, in my direction, the
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  Speaker 6: FBI released a never before seen video of the suspect.
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  Speaker 6: We also released new images to the public of the suspect,
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  Speaker 6: and just last night, the suspect was taken into custody
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  Speaker 6: at ten pm local time, in less than thirty six
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  Speaker 6: hours thirty three to be precise.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks to the.
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  Speaker 6: Full weight of the federal government and leading out with
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  Speaker 6: the partners here in the state of Utah and Governor Cox,
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  Speaker 6: the suspect was apprehended in historic time period.
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  Speaker 10: Joining us today, Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant, co
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  Speaker 10: host of gold Shields podcast, Joseph Scott Morgan bes at
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  Speaker 10: Jacksonville State University and co host host of Body Bags
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  Speaker 10: with Joseph Scott Morgan. As we begin today shocking announcement,
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  Speaker 10: we already have a suspect in custody, Tyler Robinson, a
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  Speaker 10: twenty two year old Utah resident, and apparently he was
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  Speaker 10: turned in or convinced to turn himself in by his father,
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  Speaker 10: who is now being called the father of Justice, Matt Robinson.
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  Speaker 10: Straight out to you, Joseph Scott Morgan. Ever since the
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  Speaker 10: assassination of Charlie Kirk, there has been wide spread speculation
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  Speaker 10: as to everything that took place that day, from the
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  Speaker 10: shot to security to what actually transpired. I want to
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  Speaker 10: start with the shot. We have a man in custody,
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  Speaker 10: so let's start with him on the roof allegedly shooting
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  Speaker 10: Charlie Kirk from at least two hundred yards. Is that
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  Speaker 10: still what we believe?
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  Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, according to the reports that we're hearing, it
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  Speaker 11: sounds reasonable. One of the interesting images that has emerged
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  Speaker 11: from the inspection of that alleged sniper's nest, if we
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  Speaker 11: can call it that, is that surface is on the
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  Speaker 11: roof is actually a gravel surface, And there's an image
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  Speaker 11: that has been released of evidence markers around an area
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  Speaker 11: that is literally impressed into that gravel surface. That gives
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  Speaker 11: you the impression when you see it that someone had
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  Speaker 11: laid there for a protracted period of time.
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  Speaker 10: Now, okay, on the top of a roof, oftentimes we
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  Speaker 10: have tar and other things like that. Would that gravel
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  Speaker 10: making it a kind of uneven surface? Would that create
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  Speaker 10: a problem for somebody that is laying down to get
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  Speaker 10: the shot.
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  Speaker 11: I wouldn't necessarily think so particularly if they had any
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  Speaker 11: knowledge of how of the weapon system that they're actually using,
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  Speaker 11: and we don't know all of the details yet, he
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  Speaker 11: may have brought something along to brace himself with. Keep
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  Speaker 11: in mind, this kid actually had a backpack with him,
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  Speaker 11: and in the military, I know from personal experience that
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  Speaker 11: you're trained to use things, particularly if you're in a
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  Speaker 11: prone position, that can brace your position, and that that
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  Speaker 11: can steady, can steady your site picture. It wouldn't surprise
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  Speaker 11: me if that if the backpack that he had up
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  Speaker 11: there with him may have been used for that purpose.
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  Speaker 10: Okay, Dan Murphy, as a former detective sergeant, you're looking
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  Speaker 10: at this from solving the crime. What is the first
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  Speaker 10: step from the moment you learn that Charlie Kirk has
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  Speaker 10: been shot. You don't know his condition. All you know
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  Speaker 10: is we have a man shot. What is the first
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  Speaker 10: thing you do when you start trying to solve the crime.
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  Speaker 12: First, you have to preserve the scene. The crime scene
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  Speaker 12: is of paramount importance because that is going to live
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  Speaker 12: with you for the remainder of this case. What you grab,
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  Speaker 12: what you don't grab is vital. The second is witnesses,
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  Speaker 12: eyewitnesses grabbing any and everybody that's on the scene that
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  Speaker 12: may have seen something today in today's world, we want
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  Speaker 12: to see cell phone coverage, cameras, everyone that was there
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  Speaker 12: who has a cell phone, a shot, any footage, bring
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  Speaker 12: it in and it's all potential evidence. We want to
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  Speaker 12: look around at cameras, surveillance cameras that are part of
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  Speaker 12: the campus. We want to look at everything we can
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  Speaker 12: look at who is parked in the parking lot. This
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  Speaker 12: is a tremendous job that needs to be done by
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  Speaker 12: a lot of people, but it's vital that those steps
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  Speaker 12: begin immediately.
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  Speaker 10: You know, we did find out a number of things
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  Speaker 10: as as we're doing this program. This is still a
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  Speaker 10: breaking news story. It is evolving. We had we started
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  Speaker 10: the day with President Donald Trump on Fox News announcing
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  Speaker 10: that ninety nine percent is sure we had the shooter
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  Speaker 10: in custody, the alleged shooter. One of the things that
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  Speaker 10: we've been trying to figure out is who is this
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  Speaker 10: person who would have shot Charlie Kirk. You know, he
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  Speaker 10: founded Turning Point back in twenty twelve and he has
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  Speaker 10: been the subject of I don't know how to actually
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  Speaker 10: phrase this, but you know, he's outspoken, conservative Christian man,
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  Speaker 10: and he's been labeled a hater by those on the left,
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  Speaker 10: just the way we live today. But as you're trying
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  Speaker 10: to figure out who is the shooter, we saw a
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  Speaker 10: guy that looked like to be sixty years old in
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  Speaker 10: short pants, you know, balding. We saw him in custody
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  Speaker 10: briefly by police because he's you know, talking about I
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  Speaker 10: do it again. We also had rumors that it was
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  Speaker 10: a thirty year old man, that it was not a
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  Speaker 10: college student. And what turns out to be the shooter
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  Speaker 10: or the alleged shooter is actually twenty two years old.
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  Speaker 10: Is this something that either of you would expect as
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  Speaker 10: we move forward? Would you have started by thinking this
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  Speaker 10: is a college age person or would you have thought
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  Speaker 10: somebody older would have been involved in the shooting?
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  Speaker 12: I would say you never never want to theorize as
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  Speaker 12: to who is suspec does until your evidence points you're there.
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  Speaker 12: That's a capital mistake to make, and people do it
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  Speaker 12: all the time, and the media loves to jump because
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  Speaker 12: we want to assign an identity to somebody. But the
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  Speaker 12: fact of the matter is, you go where the evidence
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  Speaker 12: lead you, and if it turns out to be somebody
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  Speaker 12: who's older or younger, that's fine. Worry about what narrative
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  Speaker 12: it can fit later, but you look for the truth.
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  Speaker 10: You follow the evidence absolutely, Okay. Now, Joseph Scott Morgan,
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  Speaker 10: we saw the shot. We saw Charlie Kirk sitting under
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  Speaker 10: the tent. I want to point something out. You know,
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  Speaker 10: before the shooting took place, there are about three thousand
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  Speaker 10: paid that attended the event. Charlie Kirk was under a tent,
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  Speaker 10: you know that he was sitting under, but there were
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  Speaker 10: people fairly close to him right up front. Then there
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  Speaker 10: was a walkway area in the grass, probably twelve feet
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  Speaker 10: I'm guessing, and then more people situated directly behind that.
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  Speaker 10: And before the event actually got started, before he actually
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  Speaker 10: was giving a speech, he was engaging with the audience.
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  Speaker 10: He was throwing hats and other things to the audience,
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  Speaker 10: getting them kind of excited and pumped up before he spoke.
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  Speaker 10: And then before he grabbed the mic to give a speech,
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  Speaker 10: he actually was doing Q and A with the audience
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  Speaker 10: and had them had two microphone set up and had
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  Speaker 10: people going to either mic so they could actually begin
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  Speaker 10: this speech by talking about things, by actually getting into
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  Speaker 10: a discussion. So he's a minute and a half into
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  Speaker 10: this as he's sitting down in the tent before he
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  Speaker 10: starts his speech. He's still answering questions from the crowd
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  Speaker 10: when the shot rang out. We I say, we all
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  Speaker 10: saw it. Most of us have seen the video because
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  Speaker 10: it was released on social media within seconds. It wasn't
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  Speaker 10: like the Suppruiter film where we waited, you know, where
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  Speaker 10: we didn't have anything for hours and then years later.
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  Speaker 3: This was immediate. And there are probably plenty of.
• 17:45
  Speaker 10: People who got shots of that assassination that still have
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  Speaker 10: not posted it online.
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  Speaker 11: Yeah, the Saint Dallas nineteen sixty three. You know you're
• 17:56
  Speaker 11: going to have multiple povs here because, let's face it,
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  Speaker 11: lik him or hate him, He's a media figure.
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  Speaker 13: He is he was.
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  Speaker 11: Magnetic, and people want those kinds of images. It's the
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  Speaker 11: world that we live in today. So you know, one
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  Speaker 11: hundred and eighty degrees probably three hundred and sixty degrees
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  Speaker 11: in his orbit. There there were people videotaping. One of
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  Speaker 11: the things that I think that those that are going
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  Speaker 11: to be canvassing the area and talking to folks, they're
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  Speaker 11: going to want to collect those images, particularly those I
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  Speaker 11: think one of the more intriguing images that you would
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  Speaker 11: want is something that is more to Charlie's rear looking
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  Speaker 11: back to where the shooter is. I think that we've
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  Speaker 11: had one of those or two of those that have
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  Speaker 11: leaked out. Trust me, there's more, and you know that's
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  Speaker 11: not even counting. Like CCTV. I work at a university, guys.
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  Speaker 11: I got to tell you, I can literally step out
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  Speaker 11: of the door of my building here at jack State
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  Speaker 11: onto the quad and immediately I've got cameras all around
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  Speaker 11: me that are observing me. If you're going to try
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  Speaker 11: to pull something like this off and try to remain anonymous,
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  Speaker 11: bad choice, because there is so much video evidence on
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  Speaker 11: a campus that they can pull it in seconds. Dollars
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  Speaker 11: to donuts. I guarantee you that the state police, probably
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  Speaker 11: the locals, and certainly the FEDS they descended on the
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  Speaker 11: security area there that controls all of the cameras.
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  Speaker 3: They have that data.
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  Speaker 11: Trust me not to mention everything else that's peripheral to
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  Speaker 11: that parking lots. We've heard a lot about ring cams.
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  Speaker 11: Oh wow, Yeah, all of the cases that we cover
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  Speaker 11: with Nancy. It seems like in the last two years,
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  Speaker 11: ring cams come into play, don't they. They're everywhere you
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  Speaker 11: know as well, and it's just it's just that the
• 19:54
  Speaker 11: area where this happened on a university campus is so
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  Speaker 11: tightly monitored, and a lot it has to do with
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  Speaker 11: student safety. Yeah, bad choice, bad area to select if
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  Speaker 11: you're trying to remain anonymous.
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  Speaker 10: Now, Dan Hampton background in New York as a detective sergeant.
• 20:12
  Speaker 10: Look when we started breaking this story down beyond the shooting,
• 20:18
  Speaker 10: because that was just shocking, and I want to come
• 20:19
  Speaker 10: back to that in just a minute, Joe, about what
• 20:21
  Speaker 10: that actually what the shooting actually did.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: But first we've got a shooter that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 10: I'm going to say. The police were leaking information. It
• 20:30
  Speaker 10: looked like they were chumming the water. They were baiting
• 20:33
  Speaker 10: with pictures and things like that to try to get
• 20:35
  Speaker 10: information from the public. Is that a common thing to
• 20:39
  Speaker 10: expect it? Do police really use the media in that way?
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Dan?
• 20:42
  Speaker 12: Absolutely, It can be your best friend, it could be
• 20:44
  Speaker 12: your worst enemy. But more often than your best friend,
• 20:47
  Speaker 12: when you distribute pictures to the media and the public
• 20:49
  Speaker 12: sees that, you have a far increased chance of getting
• 20:51
  Speaker 12: your person identified in a case like this, it was
• 20:54
  Speaker 12: a smart move to do. And we see that his
• 20:57
  Speaker 12: alleged discussion with his family where he put himself at
• 21:01
  Speaker 12: the scene having done it. At least that's what we're
• 21:03
  Speaker 12: told that may have come as a result of all
• 21:06
  Speaker 12: the pressure involved because he couldn't hide it from them.
• 21:08
  Speaker 12: He's sitting on the news. That's me he had to
• 21:11
  Speaker 12: give it up. I think it was a smart move
• 21:12
  Speaker 12: and it's done commonly.
• 21:13
  Speaker 10: And one of the things we saw Fox had video
• 21:17
  Speaker 10: of police taking down a camera over a garage, which
• 21:22
  Speaker 10: I found fascinating because we had neighbors from the neighborhood.
• 21:25
  Speaker 10: When he allegedly made he shoots and then he's off
• 21:29
  Speaker 10: the building and there is actually video showing him jumping.
• 21:33
  Speaker 10: Then we see him limping as he's walking through backyards,
• 21:36
  Speaker 10: because they were getting calls and from residents saying, hey,
• 21:40
  Speaker 10: I got a video of a guy running through the backyards.
• 21:43
  Speaker 10: So I'm going to assume that he hurt himself jumping
• 21:46
  Speaker 10: off the building as far as he had to jump,
• 21:49
  Speaker 10: and he's limping through the backyards. He ditched the bolt
• 21:52
  Speaker 10: action rifle on his escape route. Is that something that
• 21:56
  Speaker 10: you would expect? Did he drop it?
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: What do you think? Why do you think we have that?
• 22:00
  Speaker 12: Well, he's got a distance that weapon from himself. Personally,
• 22:03
  Speaker 12: he can't be found with that weapon on him. It's
• 22:05
  Speaker 12: too incriminating. So he didn't want to leave it up
• 22:07
  Speaker 12: on the roof. He took it with him and he
• 22:08
  Speaker 12: figured it he would gain some time by ditching it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 12: Very common guns are thrown in lakes, rivers, off bridges
• 22:14
  Speaker 12: all the time, just to get rid of the evidence
• 22:16
  Speaker 12: as much as possible. He obviously did it in a
• 22:19
  Speaker 12: very haphazard way. This is not a career criminal or
• 22:21
  Speaker 12: a professional assassin. This is a young kid who had
• 22:24
  Speaker 12: the intention of doing this, but didn't really think out
• 22:27
  Speaker 12: the steps afterwards as much as he thought he would.
• 22:29
  Speaker 12: As far as as far as jumping off the roof
• 22:31
  Speaker 12: is concerned, one of the things I would do as
• 22:33
  Speaker 12: soon as I saw any video footage of that. You
• 22:36
  Speaker 12: check all area hospitals and clinics that somebody come in
• 22:38
  Speaker 12: with a broken ankle, hurt leg. That's going to be
• 22:40
  Speaker 12: one of your investigators.
• 22:42
  Speaker 10: Is the board theater jumping from this in the balcony,
• 22:45
  Speaker 10: you know, breaks his leg. So now we've got a
• 22:48
  Speaker 10: suspect in custody. As this is a breaking story. The
• 22:51
  Speaker 10: man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk, twenty two year old
• 22:55
  Speaker 10: Utah resident Tyler Robinson. And by the way, guys, this
• 22:58
  Speaker 10: guy's not an idiot. Tyler Robinson actually had an academic
• 23:03
  Speaker 10: scholarship to Logan, which is also a college in Utah.
• 23:07
  Speaker 10: He attended the college campus where he was, but only
• 23:11
  Speaker 10: for one semester. He's one of these really smart guys,
• 23:15
  Speaker 10: but at twenty two, has not achieved a whole lot.
• 23:18
  Speaker 10: And I think that'll be something that we get bethany
• 23:21
  Speaker 10: on to talk about. But there were multiple photos taken
• 23:24
  Speaker 10: of him that have been released. We've got him in
• 23:27
  Speaker 10: custody turning himself in. We found out that he there
• 23:33
  Speaker 10: keeps saying he did it, but allegedly somebody wrote on
• 23:37
  Speaker 10: the shellcasings a number of different inscriptions. Governor Utah Governor
• 23:42
  Speaker 10: Spencer Cox actually listed out some of the things that
• 23:46
  Speaker 10: were written on one of the shellcasings. Hey fascist catch,
• 23:51
  Speaker 10: I would encourage people to actually go look up your
• 23:55
  Speaker 10: definitions of what a fascist is and free speech and
• 23:59
  Speaker 10: those wonderful thing we experience here in the United States
• 24:01
  Speaker 10: of America and realize that a lot of us grew up. Hey,
• 24:07
  Speaker 10: just do your own thing, you know, live and let
• 24:09
  Speaker 10: you live that. We're not at that point anymore. Now,
• 24:12
  Speaker 10: we're at this point where if if you disagree with
• 24:15
  Speaker 10: what I say, I deserve to die. And that's not us,
• 24:19
  Speaker 10: that's not who we are. We've got to stop this.
• 24:22
  Speaker 10: Charlie Kirk spoke from the heart. He spoke for years
• 24:26
  Speaker 10: trying to get people to think deeper and to be
• 24:28
  Speaker 10: honest with you.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: It was that that led to his death.
• 24:32
  Speaker 10: People don't want him to share what he thinks because
• 24:35
  Speaker 10: they don't like it. And I'm telling you, we've got
• 24:37
  Speaker 10: to actually get some leaders that will talk about this
• 24:39
  Speaker 10: openly and honestly instead of burying it.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 24:43
  Speaker 10: Other words written on the shellcasings guys, oh bella chow
• 24:48
  Speaker 10: bella chow bella chow chow chow. That's from an Italian
• 24:53
  Speaker 10: song dedicated to the resistance during World War Two. Another
• 24:57
  Speaker 10: one was if you this is actually a meant as
• 25:00
  Speaker 10: a joke. Okay, if you read this, you are gay lmao.
• 25:06
  Speaker 10: Another one notices bulges, oh woh, what's this? Granted, I'm
• 25:13
  Speaker 10: old and crazy, get off my long guy. I don't
• 25:16
  Speaker 10: know what owo means, but it's part of an internet
• 25:21
  Speaker 10: meme that circulated I guess seven years ago or so.
• 25:26
  Speaker 10: But these things written on shell casings is that also
• 25:29
  Speaker 10: something that is common in a shooting of this nature.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I have not seen it.
• 25:37
  Speaker 12: I know in high profile cases recently it seems to
• 25:39
  Speaker 12: be a trend, but I have not seen it in
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: my career.
• 25:42
  Speaker 10: Now, Joe, back to the shooting when Charlie Kirk was shot,
• 25:48
  Speaker 10: because a lot of us did see it before it
• 25:50
  Speaker 10: was blurred. I'm still shocked, amazed and saddened that we
• 25:55
  Speaker 10: saw this because normally we don't. Normally it's as it
• 25:59
  Speaker 10: is now if you actually find a version of it online,
• 26:01
  Speaker 10: it's going to be blurred. What did you see in
• 26:05
  Speaker 10: terms of the shot hitting Charlie Kirk.
• 26:09
  Speaker 11: Well, from my perspective when I was watching, and I
• 26:13
  Speaker 11: watched one that was sent to me that was kind
• 26:17
  Speaker 11: of enhanced a bit, and the shot was tighter. These
• 26:22
  Speaker 11: physiological responses that you see as he has struck and
• 26:28
  Speaker 11: part of it. Also, I think that many people that
• 26:31
  Speaker 11: follow through crime and that hear us talk about these
• 26:33
  Speaker 11: sorts of things, they don't appreciate the horror many times
• 26:36
  Speaker 11: that's involved in an event like this. How shocking it
• 26:39
  Speaker 11: is not obviously I mean obviously to the victim, but
• 26:44
  Speaker 11: also those that are surrounding him. In this particular case,
• 26:49
  Speaker 11: if you go to the left, to the left of
• 26:51
  Speaker 11: the mid line of the neck, this is where literally
• 26:54
  Speaker 11: the entrance is right up above the collar line. It
• 26:57
  Speaker 11: appeared to me just a copious amount of blood that
• 27:04
  Speaker 11: immediately begins to issue forth from him. It's been speculated,
• 27:10
  Speaker 11: and I include myself in that group, that there's high
• 27:14
  Speaker 11: probability that it nicked probably the juggler as well as
• 27:20
  Speaker 11: perhaps the carotid, given the amount of blood. Remember, these
• 27:25
  Speaker 11: are blood supplies and returns for the brain, and the
• 27:28
  Speaker 11: brain is the most vascular organ in the body. It
• 27:32
  Speaker 11: requires a lot to function.
• 27:35
  Speaker 10: Would Charlie Kirk have been aware of what was going
• 27:38
  Speaker 10: on after that shot?
• 27:41
  Speaker 11: That's hard to say. That's almost an unanswerable question. I
• 27:46
  Speaker 11: do know this that if you had seen this image
• 27:51
  Speaker 11: he draws, you can see him drawing his right hand
• 27:56
  Speaker 11: up and the thumb appears to be clutched. This is
• 27:59
  Speaker 11: a new neuromuscular response to neurotrauma. You'll see it with
• 28:06
  Speaker 11: the actually the brain, the brain stem and as well
• 28:09
  Speaker 11: as the spinal cord. All you got to do is
• 28:10
  Speaker 11: watch a football game, uh, and you'll see people that
• 28:15
  Speaker 11: get their bell rung.
• 28:16
  Speaker 13: Uh.
• 28:16
  Speaker 11: They'll fall to the ground. And it almost looks like
• 28:19
  Speaker 11: a seizure, and then of course he topples over to
• 28:23
  Speaker 11: his left and begins to bleed out there. I think
• 28:25
  Speaker 11: there's a high probability that death was probably pretty quick
• 28:32
  Speaker 11: at this point in time. You know, I talked to
• 28:34
  Speaker 11: Nancy the other day and I said, you know, even
• 28:36
  Speaker 11: if you'd had a group of vascular surgeons standing right
• 28:39
  Speaker 11: there with him, this is so traumatic that I don't
• 28:45
  Speaker 11: I think that it probably would have been unsurvivable based
• 28:48
  Speaker 11: upon what I've seen over the years and the morgues
• 28:50
  Speaker 11: and you know, and it scenes and that sort of thing.
• 28:53
  Speaker 10: And please remember a game as we talk about the
• 28:55
  Speaker 10: assassination of Charlie Cook Kirk. This is a father of two,
• 29:00
  Speaker 10: a little girl, little boy, wife Erica.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: This is not us. This is not the best of us.
• 29:07
  Speaker 10: We've got to do more to stop this from happening.
• 29:10
  Speaker 10: We can have an exchange of ideas, friends and disagree
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: and move forward with this is just not us. So, Dan,
• 29:18
  Speaker 10: I want to go thank you for a minute. As
• 29:19
  Speaker 10: the investigation starts getting now, it doesn't stop after the arrest.
• 29:24
  Speaker 10: This is like the beginning part of the investigation, isn't it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, there's so much work going on behind the scenes
• 29:30
  Speaker 12: right now and has been going on since the initial event.
• 29:34
  Speaker 12: Search warrants are being conducted at his residence, in his
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: car at many places. The actual owner of the weapon
• 29:41
  Speaker 12: is probably, no doubt, sitting in the police station right
• 29:43
  Speaker 12: now being interviewed as to how that weapon got into
• 29:46
  Speaker 12: this guy's hands if he's not the owner. They are
• 29:49
  Speaker 12: retracing steps. They are watching video footage, as doctor Scott
• 29:53
  Speaker 12: said before, not just of the cameras on the campus,
• 29:56
  Speaker 12: but anything that might have been a trail that led
• 29:58
  Speaker 12: him to the scene. They're reviewing his credit card and
• 30:01
  Speaker 12: debit card statements. Where did he make purchases, what did
• 30:04
  Speaker 12: he do recently? Where has he been looking at his
• 30:06
  Speaker 12: text messages. There is so much work going on and
• 30:09
  Speaker 12: so many witnesses are being interviewed to make a very complete,
• 30:12
  Speaker 12: very large package that is the investigation that will be
• 30:16
  Speaker 12: the case that will be presented to a grand jury
• 30:18
  Speaker 12: and ultimately to a jury. There's a lot of work
• 30:21
  Speaker 12: and it's all very important, and right now I know
• 30:23
  Speaker 12: there's a lot of boots on the ground in that
• 30:25
  Speaker 12: area doing that work and in other places too. This
• 30:28
  Speaker 12: is a massive investigation.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 30:30
  Speaker 10: One thing that we knew from the very beginning was
• 30:32
  Speaker 10: that we had a footprint, we had a palm print,
• 30:36
  Speaker 10: and possibly a forearm print. I want to stick with
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: the two that I'm actually familiar with, the footprint and
• 30:42
  Speaker 10: the palm print. Joseph Scott Morgan, you actually were talking
• 30:46
  Speaker 10: to me the other day about a palm print. We
• 30:48
  Speaker 10: have a national database of palm prints, just like we
• 30:52
  Speaker 10: do fingerprints.
• 30:53
  Speaker 11: Correct, Yeah, yeah, we I mean what will happen is
• 30:58
  Speaker 11: on a fingerprint card when somebody's rolled up and they're
• 31:02
  Speaker 11: taken into jail, you'll get a series of prints inked
• 31:07
  Speaker 11: prints in the past. I'm assuming that they can digitize
• 31:12
  Speaker 11: these as well, and traditionally you'll get an entirety of
• 31:15
  Speaker 11: a print. It will encompass this. But here's here's the rub.
• 31:20
  Speaker 11: If this kid has never been hooked up on charges
• 31:23
  Speaker 11: in the past, guess what, He's not going to be
• 31:26
  Speaker 11: in that database. So you know that that turns into
• 31:30
  Speaker 11: kind of a dead end. I was really fascinated, I
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: think by them talking about talking about a forearm. That's
• 31:40
  Speaker 11: not something that you know is normally printed, no, And
• 31:44
  Speaker 11: I think that that probably goes to some surface that
• 31:47
  Speaker 11: he's applying pressure to at that point, and we you know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 11: we excrete sweat and we excrete oil every day. As
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: a matter of fact. That's we don't have fingerprints on
• 31:59
  Speaker 11: the tips of our fingers. We have friction ridges. We
• 32:01
  Speaker 11: leave behind fingerprints, and so the same thing would apply
• 32:05
  Speaker 11: with kind of if your skin is greasy, you lay
• 32:08
  Speaker 11: it on a surface like this. What I'm wondering about
• 32:11
  Speaker 11: is this going to be a spot where you can
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: harvest contact contact biological specimens from I'm thinking probably it
• 32:22
  Speaker 11: would be evidence rich in the sense that there would
• 32:24
  Speaker 11: be sweat, there would be oil that's you know, coming
• 32:29
  Speaker 11: out of the body. And also is there any partial
• 32:32
  Speaker 11: DNA you know, where you've got trace evidence of DNA
• 32:37
  Speaker 11: that's degraded skin cells sloughing off. I think that's important.
• 32:41
  Speaker 11: One other thing I'd love to bring you back to
• 32:44
  Speaker 11: is going to be these cartridges. You know, there's a
• 32:48
  Speaker 11: group of people that we forget about in forensics many times,
• 32:51
  Speaker 11: and that's question documents. They can get exemplars from this
• 32:55
  Speaker 11: guy relative to what is written on the shell casings,
• 33:00
  Speaker 11: and they can give you an idea if this, if
• 33:03
  Speaker 11: this has origins from his actual hand, how you know,
• 33:07
  Speaker 11: and were they engraved or were they written, you know,
• 33:10
  Speaker 11: because we don't know at this point.
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: Well, we've heard the term engraved, and my first thought
• 33:15
  Speaker 10: was did they have a diamond tip thing putting it
• 33:18
  Speaker 10: on there or was that just an expression of using
• 33:20
  Speaker 10: a sharpie.
• 33:22
  Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly. So again back to Dan's point, this investigation
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: is so layered and so very intense that we're not
• 33:34
  Speaker 11: going to have all of this data at one time.
• 33:37
  Speaker 11: Don't expect it. As a matter of fact, I would
• 33:40
  Speaker 11: probably after this period of time, I would imagine we'll
• 33:43
  Speaker 11: see a lessening of information that's being released because they're
• 33:47
  Speaker 11: trying to put together a packet at this point toime
• 33:50
  Speaker 11: to bring this guy up on charges, and it's like
• 33:53
  Speaker 11: playing poker man. You're not going to show your hand.
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: I know the public wants the information. You'll hear things
• 33:58
  Speaker 11: from peripheries, but I would imagine that the authorities are
• 34:03
  Speaker 11: probably going to shut it down pretty quickly relative to
• 34:05
  Speaker 11: how much data is going to be coming out, because
• 34:08
  Speaker 11: they're going to be putting together a case. This is
• 34:10
  Speaker 11: where this begins.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: At this point, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Charlie Kirk's
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: alleged assassin, Tyler Robinson, demands the top prosecutor be thrown
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: off of his murder trial. Well in his wisdom, Judge
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Tony Graff said, hell no, that's right. A Utah judge
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: tossed Robinson's bid to kick off prosecutors on his murder case.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: The reasoning was one of the prosecutor's daughters was at
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the rally where Kirk was murdered.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: What happened in Utah?
• 34:56
  Speaker 14: The thirty one year old ahead of Turning Point USA
• 34:59
  Speaker 14: is shot dead during a speaking event at Utah Valley
• 35:02
  Speaker 14: University in Orum. The shooting took place about twenty minutes
• 35:05
  Speaker 14: into his speech. Bystanders said Kirk was hit in the
• 35:09
  Speaker 14: neck while answering student questions. A UVU alert confirmed quote
• 35:13
  Speaker 14: a single shot was fired on campus toward a visiting speaker.
• 35:16
  Speaker 14: Police are investigating now. Video from the scene showed students
• 35:19
  Speaker 14: running as the shots rang out and Kirk being rushed
• 35:22
  Speaker 14: away by his security team. Utah Governor Spencer Cox posted
• 35:26
  Speaker 14: on x quote those responsible will be held fully accountable.
• 35:29
  Speaker 14: Violence has no place in our public life. Americans of
• 35:32
  Speaker 14: every political persuasion must unite in condemning this act. Our
• 35:36
  Speaker 14: prayers are with Charlie, his family, and all those affected.
• 35:39
  Speaker 14: Utah Senator Mike Lee wrote, quote, please join me in
• 35:42
  Speaker 14: praying for Charlie Kirk and the students gathered there. Vice
• 35:45
  Speaker 14: President Vance added on X quote, say a prayer for
• 35:48
  Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy and a young father.
• 35:51
  Speaker 14: FBI Director Cash Pattel said quote, we are closely monitoring
• 35:55
  Speaker 14: reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah
• 35:58
  Speaker 14: Valley University. Thought are with Charlie, his loved ones, and
• 36:02
  Speaker 14: everyone involved. Agents will be on the scene quickly, and
• 36:05
  Speaker 14: the FBI stands in full support of the ongoing response.
• 36:08
  Speaker 14: Kirk himself had posted online only moments before the attack, quote,
• 36:13
  Speaker 14: we are so back. Utah Valley University is fired up
• 36:18
  Speaker 14: and ready for the first stop on the American Comeback Tour.
• 36:21
  Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk rose to national prominence after co founding Turning
• 36:25
  Speaker 14: Point USA in twenty twelve. Has since built the group
• 36:28
  Speaker 14: into a major conservative force on campuses, created several offshoots,
• 36:32
  Speaker 14: including Turning Point Action and Turning Point Faith, and he
• 36:36
  Speaker 14: hosts The Charlie Kirk Show. He has been a strong
• 36:39
  Speaker 14: supporter of President Trump and has often spoken out on
• 36:42
  Speaker 14: issues like critical race theory and government mandates.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: On Wednesday, He.
• 36:46
  Speaker 14: Was speaking under a tent at the university courtyard as
• 36:49
  Speaker 14: part of his American comeback tour. Shots were fired from
• 36:52
  Speaker 14: the top of a nearby building about two hundred yards away.
• 36:55
  Speaker 14: The campus went into lockdown while police and federal agents
• 36:58
  Speaker 14: swarmed the scene. Report stated a shooter was arrested, but
• 37:02
  Speaker 14: that has been corrected by UVU to state that there
• 37:05
  Speaker 14: is no suspect in custody.
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: With a high degree of certainty, we have him.
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: A massive manhunt.
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: The suspect was taken into custody at ten pm local time.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: The assassin who gunned down a loving father of to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a husband.
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: The suspect was apprehended in historic time period.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: White custody in custody.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: The assassin who guns down a father of two.
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: He is observed on video in a Plaine maroon T shirt,
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: light colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo,
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: and light colored shoes, arriving on UVU campus in a
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: Great Dodge Challenger at approximately eight twenty nine A M.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: Tyler Robinson.
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: Robinson had become more political in recent years. A second unfired,
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: casing red oh Belichow, Bellichow Belichow chow chow, and a.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Third on fired casing red. If you read this you.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Are gay, His wife and two little children who will
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: grow up without daddy.
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: This is a very sad day for again for our country.
• 38:11
  Speaker 8: And I do know this is going to be a
• 38:13
  Speaker 8: federal case. And there's many of us believe that Charlie
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: was targeted because of his political ideology. Yeah, what's going
• 38:19
  Speaker 8: to happen to this guy?
• 38:21
  Speaker 9: Well, I hope he's going to be found guilty, I
• 38:23
  Speaker 9: would imagine, and I hope he gets to death penalty.
• 38:28
  Speaker 15: Tyler cal One L two fellow discharged a fight run
• 38:36
  Speaker 15: because of injury. I am finally a noticeable intent to
• 38:41
  Speaker 15: see the death pactya his belief believe part Charlie heard
• 38:47
  Speaker 15: based on Charlie Hurd's political expression and in so children
• 38:52
  Speaker 15: of president and we.
• 38:54
  Speaker 16: Witness the second death penalty is the death penilty is
• 38:58
  Speaker 16: the death ficuilty. They loaded him up, that's right, with
• 39:04
  Speaker 16: so many alternative counts, it will be hard for a
• 39:08
  Speaker 16: jury to find him not guilty.
• 39:10
  Speaker 15: Listen, I am filing a criminal information churnity Tyler James
• 39:15
  Speaker 15: Rollings in age twenty two with a following crime. Cal
• 39:21
  Speaker 15: One has remade a murder a colito offense, or intentionally
• 39:27
  Speaker 15: were knowingly causing the deathly herd under circumstances that created
• 39:32
  Speaker 15: a great risk of death to others. Count two felony
• 39:38
  Speaker 15: discharge of the fire arm causing serious finally injury, a
• 39:43
  Speaker 15: first degree.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Felony legal term. They ain't playing.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: what we're learning in the courtroom. Straight out to Randolph
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: ro Ris joining us, former felony prosecutor now criminal defense attorney,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: joining us at Rice Law, Randolph Rice charging in the alternative.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I've done it a million times.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: If I got a case and the grand jury had
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it back to the grand jury and represent it myself
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: But I'm worried, so then I charged you with voluntary
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: If I'm desperate.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: In other words, there is no way you are walking
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: out of that courtroom if I have anything to do
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: with it without a conviction. They loaded him up, explain
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: in a nutshell Rice nutshell.
• 40:59
  Speaker 17: Well, Nancy did a great job explain that, because if
• 41:01
  Speaker 17: you don't get that top count, that most serious count,
• 41:03
  Speaker 17: you've got the backups.
• 41:05
  Speaker 18: But the problem here is, and there is a problem,
• 41:08
  Speaker 18: is that I think that they may be reaching on
• 41:10
  Speaker 18: this aggravated murder.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 41:12
  Speaker 17: They may be using this as leverage to force him
• 41:15
  Speaker 17: or try to get him to take a plead. But
• 41:17
  Speaker 17: the aggravating circumstances at this point, I think are very
• 41:21
  Speaker 17: very simple.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Head blowing off. Are you they're reaching? Are you serious?
• 41:31
  Speaker 13: This guy?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: According to the state, this guy stakes out the place,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: and I believe they're going to end up with video
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: showing that was not his first trip to the top
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: of that roof. He stakes it out, He plans it
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care. Less doesn't matter.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Or he targeted him for his freedom of speech, and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: that is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: a judge, or shooting a political figure like the president
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: or the vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: a cop. You go after them because of what they
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: represent that you don't like, and you actually, you know what,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you really know how to.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Kick it off wrong, don't you. I bet you're a
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: super downer at a party.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: You come in to crime stories and blurt out the
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: state is reaching what.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Can be more aggravating?
• 42:40
  Speaker 18: Well man, The problem is that.
• 42:41
  Speaker 17: They're trying to rely on the fact that there were
• 42:43
  Speaker 17: children president, or that the crime could have hurt somebody else,
• 42:47
  Speaker 17: And again, that seems to be a bit of.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: A shrimp creature. Show him the crowd here there you go.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Look look at that he shot from a little under
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: in danger, Rice, look at your monitor.
• 43:04
  Speaker 17: Nobody else is in danger in this situation, at least
• 43:07
  Speaker 17: from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I think
• 43:10
  Speaker 17: that the state has a good argument.
• 43:12
  Speaker 18: But in the defense's argument.
• 43:13
  Speaker 17: They're going to say this was a single bullet that
• 43:16
  Speaker 17: had a single target that ultimately killed Charlie Kirk and
• 43:19
  Speaker 17: it didn't endanger the other people in the crowd. And
• 43:22
  Speaker 17: that's where there may be a problem for the prosecutor's
• 43:25
  Speaker 17: office in trying to seek the charge that seeks the
• 43:27
  Speaker 17: death penalty.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: They can't prove it. Did I not hear? You just
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: say the state has a good argument. So which one
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: is it? Does the state have a good argument? I
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: say they do?
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: attorney that doesn't say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?
• 43:54
  Speaker 17: Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that
• 43:57
  Speaker 17: you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that
• 43:59
  Speaker 17: I defend, because that's their job.
• 44:01
  Speaker 18: Their job is to challenge the prosecution to say did
• 44:04
  Speaker 18: you try to get too much?
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: Here?
• 44:06
  Speaker 17: And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is
• 44:09
  Speaker 17: using to try to get the defendant to take a
• 44:11
  Speaker 17: police saying, hey, look.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Did you actually say the P word? Plea?
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: You think there's going to be a plea? You think
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: they're going to pull a Coburger with the whole world
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: watching them. You don't think they're going to take this
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: to trial and see the death penalty, whether they get
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: it or not.
• 44:26
  Speaker 17: I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and
• 44:27
  Speaker 17: look what happened there. I think that this is something
• 44:29
  Speaker 17: they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to make the defendant plea guilty, because.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: There seems to be no way out with all these
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: alternative counts. I don't see it happening though. I don't
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: see a plea going down in this case. But again,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: you're right, we didn't see one coming in Coburger either.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: But put them up one more time, Randolph. Guys, let
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: me remind you.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Rice is a former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of cases. Now he is a criminal defense attorney,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: civil attorney. So, Randolph, the aggravating circumstance you mentioned was
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: just that other people were endangered.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: It's not like you shoot Jackie in the studio and
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: it's just the two of you. This is a shooting
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: with a throng of people, thousands of people.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: If that bullet had gone the wrong way, if there
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: had been a gust of wind, who knows. But they
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred in the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: presence of children. Now, that is aggravating a violent felony
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that occurs in the presence of children.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: How are you going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.
• 45:50
  Speaker 18: Bringing jawn child in there that actually saw the murder.
• 45:52
  Speaker 17: They're going to have to prove that in court that
• 45:54
  Speaker 17: a child actually saw it was affected by it, and
• 45:57
  Speaker 17: therefore that's the aggravating circumstance.
• 45:59
  Speaker 18: And I don't know if they've got that right now.
• 46:02
  Speaker 18: You know, it just might be tough for them on
• 46:04
  Speaker 18: that count.
• 46:04
  Speaker 16: Okay, you're right, that's an element of proof. They will
• 46:06
  Speaker 16: have to bring in a child witness to prove it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Guys, a lot has happened since these charges were announced
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: formally in court. Now, what that was was an arrayment.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: An arrayment where the defendant is brought in because you
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: cannot stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: told what you're charged with by typically a magistrate.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I believe this is going to beat the trial judge
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: from here out.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: But we're also learning not just the charges, but how
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: the murder went down.
• 46:39
  Speaker 15: Listen, at approximately eleven fifty one am, the suspect entered
• 46:44
  Speaker 15: campus from the north. You see you wearing a live
• 46:47
  Speaker 15: shirt with an American flag in the center, a dark
• 46:50
  Speaker 15: baseball out, and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, suspect keeps
• 46:56
  Speaker 15: his head down and rarely raises his head, you know,
• 47:00
  Speaker 15: to get a clear image of his face as he
• 47:04
  Speaker 15: proceeds across the campus. He's seen walking with an unusual date.
• 47:09
  Speaker 15: The suspect wants with very little vanity in his right leg,
• 47:13
  Speaker 15: consistent with a rifle hiding in these counts.
• 47:17
  Speaker 16: Joining us now, Harmonia Rodriguez's chief you as reporter Daily Mail, Harmonia,
• 47:22
  Speaker 16: thank you for being with us.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: So that explains.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: especially if they play this in promo.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Harmonia, explain what they're talking.
• 47:39
  Speaker 19: About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the
• 47:42
  Speaker 19: hours before this shooting last week, as we can see
• 47:45
  Speaker 19: on the screen. The suspect was seen arriving on campus
• 47:49
  Speaker 19: about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping. Now,
• 47:53
  Speaker 19: this made the public wonder why this person was limping?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Do they have a limp?
• 47:57
  Speaker 19: Yesterday we learned that actually he had Hayden the rifle
• 48:01
  Speaker 19: that he used in one of his pant legs, and
• 48:06
  Speaker 19: that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnald joining US director Coldcase's Foundation Former Homicide to
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: take a start of the interview room on YouTube.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Who has gone to this scene, to the home, to
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: the shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: is he is?
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: He not heard of ring doorbell cams because they catch
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: him going door to door to door to door. They've
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: got almost an uninterrupted path of him walking through the neighborhood.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And don't tell me mcdonaughe didn case this out, Like
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: where am I going to park?
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: How am I going to get away?
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: This has been at least at least days in the making, absolutely, Nancy, And.
• 48:50
  Speaker 20: What I've learned is he did have that vehicle up
• 48:54
  Speaker 20: there and it was parked about a mile away from
• 48:59
  Speaker 20: the crime chene, and he walked in to the crime
• 49:02
  Speaker 20: machine to case it out, initially before the situation went down,
• 49:08
  Speaker 20: and then later. I've also learned that he turned his
• 49:11
  Speaker 20: phone off for a short period of time and then
• 49:13
  Speaker 20: turned it back on after the homicide.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to his vehicle,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: where did he park his muscle car?
• 49:22
  Speaker 20: The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away
• 49:26
  Speaker 20: at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensics jacksonvill State University,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash Morphew
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: phone off.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: one percent. Okay, they will not turn off even when
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: the time of the incident.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, j just Scott.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: If it weren't for the murder, the mo modus operandi
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: method of operation would be laughable because you see the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: pings leading up to a certain spot and then boof
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: the phone goes off, the murder occurs, then boof the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: phone goes back on, and you see the return back
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: to your home nest.
• 50:33
  Speaker 14: Right.
• 50:34
  Speaker 11: It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to the
• 50:37
  Speaker 11: real world here, because these phones are the modern crime scene.
• 50:42
  Speaker 11: Because it seems like every case that we cover, you know,
• 50:45
  Speaker 11: I think most famously to this point Coburger's case, you
• 50:50
  Speaker 11: go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken a lot,
• 50:54
  Speaker 11: spoken about quite a bit in that particular case. We
• 50:58
  Speaker 11: have established patterns. Are you going to turn it off
• 51:01
  Speaker 11: at this particular time? And look, the case is not
• 51:05
  Speaker 11: proven simply based on that, but it's another element that
• 51:09
  Speaker 11: can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: This video from our friends Iver at the Independent speaking
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: of the rifle.
• 51:16
  Speaker 15: Listen the rifle, ammunition, rounds, and towel were sent for
• 51:20
  Speaker 15: forends and processing DNA consistent with Robin Pennock was a
• 51:25
  Speaker 15: defendant was found on the trigger, other parts of the rifle,
• 51:30
  Speaker 15: the fire cartridge, casing two of the three how to
• 51:33
  Speaker 15: fire cartridges, and the towel. Law enforcement was unable to
• 51:39
  Speaker 15: immediately locate the shooter, so the published photos of the
• 51:42
  Speaker 15: shooter from the UBU surveillance cameras and asked for the
• 51:46
  Speaker 15: public's help to identify it. Meanwhile, law enforcement continued and
• 51:51
  Speaker 15: trying to identify the shooter through.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Other means, joining us.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall now Psychoalysis out of the LA jurisdiction
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: and she is the author of deal Breaker.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You can see her now on.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Peacock and she's at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Before
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: you launch into the whole furry connection, I want to
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on a guy.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: That comes from a loving home, very loving.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: We've heard Wow, he was afraid to tell his parents
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: he was dating another guy that was transitioning. The family knew,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you about that in just
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: a moment. So he comes to a very loving home.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: He was smart. Doctor Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: the top one percent of I believe it was his
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: act exam almost forty thousand dollars of scholarship, goes to college,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out, pursues Listen.
• 52:53
  Speaker 12: To this thirty two thousand dollars.
• 52:56
  Speaker 18: This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I mean they're supportive, they love it. My bottom line
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: here is what went wrong? And I'm not talking about
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant, doesn't matter. Some
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: people say right, some people say wrong, don't care. But
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how do you go
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: from a loving home where the parents like you're the
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: apple of their eye to becoming a psycho shaater?
• 53:30
  Speaker 21: Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we
• 53:33
  Speaker 21: call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand
• 53:37
  Speaker 21: dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and
• 53:41
  Speaker 21: studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,
• 53:44
  Speaker 21: if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate
• 53:48
  Speaker 21: being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good
• 53:53
  Speaker 21: enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So
• 53:56
  Speaker 21: the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel
• 54:00
  Speaker 21: insulted by society. They feel that they are in a
• 54:03
  Speaker 21: one down position that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like
• 54:07
  Speaker 21: they're better than them, and they hold on to every
• 54:10
  Speaker 21: little grudge until they have some kind of a profound
• 54:15
  Speaker 21: loss in their life, and in this case it may
• 54:17
  Speaker 21: have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.
• 54:21
  Speaker 21: And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk
• 54:24
  Speaker 21: through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of
• 54:27
  Speaker 21: a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,
• 54:30
  Speaker 21: one we covered many years ago was a guy who
• 54:32
  Speaker 21: stood at the top of a staircase after having locked
• 54:36
  Speaker 21: all the doors so the students wouldn't get out. We
• 54:39
  Speaker 21: call it like the fish in a barrel kind of
• 54:42
  Speaker 21: moo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the
• 54:44
  Speaker 21: feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.
• 54:48
  Speaker 21: He's like the big man on campus, literally withzing bullets
• 54:52
  Speaker 21: over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection
• 54:56
  Speaker 21: which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for
• 55:00
  Speaker 21: the first.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Time in his life.
• 55:01
  Speaker 21: So he's trying to reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless,
• 55:05
  Speaker 21: and at the bottom of society.
• 55:07
  Speaker 17: To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah State University.
• 55:11
  Speaker 15: The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
• 55:15
  Speaker 18: This scholarship is available for forty years or a.
• 55:17
  Speaker 15: Semesters is seeing were in a live shirt with a
• 55:23
  Speaker 15: turban flag in the center, a dark baseball out in
• 55:27
  Speaker 15: large sube losses.
• 55:28
  Speaker 13: He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what
• 55:33
  Speaker 13: we see in those surveillance images, then changed back into
• 55:37
  Speaker 13: the other outfit.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: He shoots, and then he's off the buildings.
• 55:41
  Speaker 10: Four days, and then we see him limping as he's
• 55:45
  Speaker 10: walking through.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: He had a conscious subjective formal charges read in open court,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: but I'm more into those charges in my mind were predictable,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: although the state did get creative in the aggravating circumstances
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: that they charged. It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Murder with quote aggravating circumstances and the significance of that.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: In order to seek the death penalty, you have to
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: joining us better than trial lawyer. They vary, but in
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: every jurisdiction across our country, you have to have aggravating
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: circumstances to seek the death penalty.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: In Coburger, it was mass murder more than one body.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: It's mass murder.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: Here, explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: in the charges, the aggravating circumstances. They have to be proved,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: just like every element of the crime.
• 56:49
  Speaker 18: Yes, you're exactly right.
• 56:50
  Speaker 17: You've got to prove every single element because what happens
• 56:53
  Speaker 17: is the jurors are going to get a jury instruction
• 56:56
  Speaker 17: at some point in time, and it's going to have
• 56:58
  Speaker 17: all these different elements. And it's to say, unless you
• 57:01
  Speaker 17: find beyond a reasonable doubt that every single element has
• 57:05
  Speaker 17: been met, then you can't find him guilty of that charge.
• 57:08
  Speaker 17: And so there is the issue with does the state
• 57:12
  Speaker 17: meet these aggravating circumstances.
• 57:14
  Speaker 18: That gets them to the conviction, that gets them to
• 57:16
  Speaker 18: the death penalty.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: with murdersys, that's what we're talking about tonight. You have
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: to prove who is the victim, that the indictment has
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction. You
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: have to prove malse. The forethought, even if it's malice
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: that lasts for a moment, the between twinkling of an instant,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: But when you seek the death penalty, you have to
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: include these aggravating circumstances, and then they become an element
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: of proof. You have to prove them, each element beyond
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may have to bring
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: in a child to prove a child.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Was in harm's way. So we'll see how the state's
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: going to prove it. In Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: In the judge's reasoning, he said he did not agree
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: with Robinson's lawyers who claimed the whole office had a
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: conflict of interests because one of the prosecutor's daughters was
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: about eighty five feet from Kirk when he was shot
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: down at Utah Valley University. I'm quoting the judge who
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: says the court finds the prosecutor's daughter's presence at the
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: rally did not factor into the prosecutorial analysis, that that
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: decision was quote grounded in the assessment of the facts
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: and applicable law. He went on and It's good that
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the judge made this extensive record in his findings for
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: the appellate court because if and when there is a conviction,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: this is going to be appealed. This very decision, this
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: pre trial decision. So I'm so glad the judge gave
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: his reasoning. He said, quote, the defense has not shown
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: there's a significant risk the prosecutor's relationship with his daughter
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: has or will impact defendants do right processes. He stated,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: the defendant has not shown his prosecution by the Utah
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: County Prosecutor's office is tainted by a concurrent conflict of interest. Okay,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: here are the facts.
• 59:47
  Speaker 15: On September eleven, twenty five, the day after the shooting,
• 59:51
  Speaker 15: Robinson's minor Sava photo on the shooter in the news
• 59:55
  Speaker 15: and iva shooter looked like for s Robinson and asks
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 15: him where he was. He said he was at home sick,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 15: and then he had also been at home home sick.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: On September camp hold on just a moment her money
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: and Rodriguez joining us dally mail. He said he was
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: home sick. What did he add? The dog ate my
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: homework home sick. That's weak.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 19: These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 19: you imagine what these parents went through. As we just
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 19: saw official saying apparently, the day after the shooting, this
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 19: mother looks at the images released by the FBI as
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 19: they were hunting this person down.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: She thinks it looks like her son. Calls him.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 19: He says he's at home sick for the second day
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 19: in a row.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: it's them.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 11: Of course you would. Yeah, all of us would. There's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 11: no way that you're not going to recognize that's your child.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 11: I think the big thing here, uh you know, probably
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 11: for this mother, and this is more of a doctor
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 11: Bethany issue, But what do you do with that information?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 11: You know, how does it because you've been with him
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 11: his entire life, so you know, again, she's going to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 11: call him up.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: She wants to confirm it. You know, do I believe
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: my lying eyes?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 11: And it turns out that her eyes were not lying
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 11: in this case?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: And the answer, you know what, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: How will this affect the parents going forward? Knowing they
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: turned their son in.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 21: You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 21: the break and that sound where he has the thirty
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 21: two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 21: is very flat.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: He doesn't seem excess. I did, so it's the mother
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: that goes oooh.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 21: And then he kind of mimics the woo in a
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 21: less sharp tone or less elevated tone. So I'm going
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 21: to guess that this mother has a long history. I've
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 21: tried to pump her son up to act normal in society.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 21: So when she sees this image of him, I don't
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 21: think is as much of a shock as you and
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 21: I might think.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: I would guess.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 21: You know how parents know their children that they've always
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 21: known something is wrong, and they're always waiting for the other.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Shoe to drop.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 21: She sees the image, it's confirmed, she calls dad. Reality
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 21: meets internal fearfulness, and now she's the one who has
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 21: to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy. She's going to
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 21: feel maternal guilt not only that she turned him in,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 21: but that she gave birth to somebody who could have
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 21: done this, and she'll blame herself for having raised him
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 21: in the wrong way. Although we know these kinds of
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 21: disorders are very biologically based, it is not the parent's fault.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I think what you said is the mother.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Has likely spann her whole life trying to present to
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: the world and to herself that her son is normal.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: clearly knew what he did was wrong. He planned it,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: he concealed it, and he covered it up afterwards as
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: evidence of guilty conscience. He knew it was wrong. But
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: mom compensating, saying, Look, he won a scholarship, he's so smart.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Look this he, you know, is a boy scout. Look
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts the grass.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I love him, He's wonderful. All that while knowing something
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 21: Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 21: obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 21: he's asocip path, but let's see, theoretically, if he was,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 21: the mother would likely have noticed many things.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Look, Look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and I always wonder I look at people with like
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: a six bedroom home worth over half a million dollars,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: they're all going to college, they have great jobs.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Was nothing to be happy about. I don't I don't
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: get it, doctor, Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: But you know, I got a family, I've got a home,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: I'm on top of the world. I don't get it, Bethany.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 21: But we know that this guy was supremely unhappy. He
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 21: was so unhappy he couldn't even follow through with a scholarship,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 21: so unhappy that he can't even smile when he gets
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 21: the scholarship. Nancy, this has nothing to do with his
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 21: upbringing or his family. I can see that fairly confidently,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 21: even without knowing them. This type of disorder is what
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 21: we call psycho biological, meaning, to break it down, there's
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 21: something wrong with his brain.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: If you did a brain scan, you.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 21: Would probably see that there's a there's a quieting in
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 21: the part of the brain that's responsible for empathy. You
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 21: might even see like a coburger syndrome of bullying other
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 21: people and wanting to be in a one up position.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: No no, no, I'm not going to let you go
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: down the air in Hernandez route where they claim the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: defense climb, he kills so murdered so many people because
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: there was something wrong with his brain. When he functioned
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: completely normally and excelled it was a multi millionaire and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: blew it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: No no no, But as he does going to be
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: a defense.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 21: This guy was not functioning normally. He was on top
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 21: of that building sweating, depositing all this DNA. In the
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 21: text we read that he wants to take the secret
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 21: with him till old age, so he actually thinks he's
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 21: going to get away with this.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: That is something seriously wrong with Riait. Please get her
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: back in the middle of the road and out of
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: the weeds.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: and they're not going to get ought.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: They all think that sure, it's not special.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 17: Yeah, that's why it's been proven the death pinitely doesn't
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 17: work because it's not a de term for people to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 17: not commit crimes because they don't think about I'm ever.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 18: Gonna get caught. So their final have to worry about
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 18: getting shot at a firing squad, mister Robinson.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 22: I also wish to inform you of your rights against
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 22: self incrimination. Anything that you say in court today could
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 22: be used against you, and we want to protect your
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 22: constitutional rights, mister Robinson. At this time you will remain
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 22: in custody without bail.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 15: Robinson's mother expressed concerned to her husband the suspect shoot
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 15: or low light Robinson Robinson's father. Robinson's father explained that
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 15: over the last year or so, Robinson had become work
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 15: for Let It Go. It had started to lean.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: More to the left, as if somehow being left wing
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: means that you're gonna gun somebody down at long range.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I think the significance of the mom saying the alleged
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: stator had become more political and left leaning was it
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: was a departure from the family values and what he
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: had been his whole life up until that point. Now
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: we heard last night that a relative of the roommate
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: blames the roommate for radicalizing the defendant. But the reality
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: is is it doesn't matter who persuaded him. It doesn't
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: matter he did this shooting of his own volition. Many
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: people have wondered did his parents know of his relationship
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: with his roommate, Yes, they did.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Listen.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 15: She said that Robinson his roomate a biological mail whose
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 15: present transition and generous. This result in several discussions with us,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 15: but especially between Robinson and his father, who had very
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 15: different political views. In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 15: mentioned that Charlie Curry would be holding innovat and You You,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 15: which Robinson said was a sup academy for the inventor.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 15: Robinson accused Curry of spreading the page.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: father of two, a husband has turned into an argument
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: about furry's and trans Sidney, So I'm joining me crime stories,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: None of that matters. It doesn't matter.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: if he was by, if he was transient. None of
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: that bears on the elements approving a murder case. How
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: did that take center?
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 13: Stave si Well some interesting bullet engravings, and we're learning
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 13: more about those. So at first we maybe thought that
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 13: this was a reference that Robinson was a furry was
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 13: part of one of these counterculture groups. But it seems
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 13: like now based on his text to his boyfriend that
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 13: Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his references
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 13: to the furry group notices bulge uwu u Wu, it
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 13: was just a joke and it didn't mean anything. So
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 13: that's why this took such a big part of this
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 13: was we thought that he was making some kind of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 13: statement with these bullet inscriptions.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: a joke? Sydney Summer.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 13: According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate Sydney.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: The engravings that you are suggesting are just a juke.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: We're on the bull bits used to murder an innocent person.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 23: Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 23: mostly a big meme.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: If I see.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 23: Notices bulge uwu on Fox News, I might have a stroke.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 23: All Right, I'm going to have to leave it. That
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 23: really sucks. Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 23: just fine.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 13: I don't know.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 23: I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 23: this exchange.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: So this is an exchange that the religious shooter. The
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner as the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: the bullets? Whoa, whoa, Wait a minute, number one, What
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: psycho engraves the bullets?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: I guess this guy in Luigi Mangioni.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: Hello, accomplice codefendant.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 17: The problem, Nancy. They need that roommate in their case
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 17: because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk killer,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 17: the kirk shooter to those text messages. They need to
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 17: keep that roommate, that love interest happy. They need to
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 17: keep them close because that's going to be probably one
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 17: of their first witnesses.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 13: So I hear what you're.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: Saying, Randolph. The two are not mutually exclusive.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: You can get his testimony and charge him as an
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: accomplice to murder at the same time.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: In fact, m let me.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Guess, does your wife do all the cooking in the home.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer? I would let
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: the roommate have a few months behind bars to see
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: if that jogs his collection so he can be a
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: co defendant and a witness at the same time.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: What about that thought he can?
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 18: But remember, you've got to put this in front of
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 18: a jury.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 17: And how does the jury see that, because under your scenario,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 17: if you put him in jail and all of a sudden,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 17: the defense turm says, hey, you've been sitting in jail.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 17: A prosecutor puts you there, so you feel like you're
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 17: forced to tell this story that doesn't look good in
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 17: front of the jury.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: in the face. Randolph Rice.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: Guilty in a court of law. That said, of course,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: the code defendant goes to jail, that's not unique. That said,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: what do you make of that text?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: My original question before you went off with your pity
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: party about the roommate going to jail, that shows me
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: that he was there. The roommate was there, and would
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: recall the defendant engraving bullets, And don't you imagine and go, hi,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson, why are you engraving bullets?
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: I would so are you telling me now he had
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: no idea what was happening.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 18: No, I think you're right.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 17: He did have a knowledge of what was going on,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 17: And I think that there's a potential that the roommate
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 17: gets charged, And you're exactly right on that.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 18: I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 17: But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 17: you certainly have that ability to charge them with knowing
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 17: what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 17: charge them what happened after? And then the text messages
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 17: that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet. It sounds like
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: trying to thread three needles at once. How do you
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: engrave a bullet?
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 20: Well, there's a couple of ways of doing it, Nancy.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: You can use a handheld engraver.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 20: But let's also take a hard look at the messaging here.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: You just happened to have a hand held engraver in
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: your tool pocket. Who would in your hand held engraver?
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 13: You know what?
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Step back and punt. You have anything else for me?
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 18: Yeah, you can, you can buy that?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 20: Really simple at home depot, but also recognize that he
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 20: says mostly the FN messages were mostly a big mean,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 20: I e. There's another messaging in the showcasing or the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 20: the cartridges that were recovered, they only recovered well, they
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 20: didn't find any showcasing on the on the roof, so
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 20: that means it was either left in the bolt of
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 20: the of the weapon and then the three in the magazine.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: If you don't happen to be one of those people
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: that have a home hand engraver, then how would you
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: do it with a knife?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: How do you do that? And it's got to be
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: legible because these were easily read.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 11: Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 11: this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 11: had a couple If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 11: mass a few weeks ago, that individual wrote these kind
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 11: of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 11: with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 11: you have to get something that is you know, I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 11: think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue. We use
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 11: what referred to as diamond engravers to mark the basis
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 11: of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 11: You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 11: that far.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: And the problem is, wait wait, I was about to
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Didn't he work as an electrician or as an electric electricians?
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that tool.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 11: He very well might, or he could have some semblance
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 11: of that. That would be What you have to have
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 11: is a metallic body that will mark on brad because
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 11: this is spraass, it's one of the softest metals that's
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 11: out there, and people doing grave you know, soldiers have
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 11: been doing it for years and years. I wonder where
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 11: you got this idea from. But you know what I'm
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 11: more interested in, Nancy, not just the engraving. I'm fascinated
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 11: by the fact that this guy, according to the presser,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 11: not only left engravings to mark these rounds, but he
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 11: also left his DNA on specific components within the weapon,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 11: even the trigger. Nancy, this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: When you say within the weapon that you're right. Where
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: did authorities find DNA? And they found a lot of it?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 11: trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 11: of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 11: DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 11: what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 11: the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 11: to eat it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 11: take your thumb and press these rounds into that in
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 11: dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 11: you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 11: of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 11: these areas you can deposit DNA. And let's face it,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 11: he had to sing wrapped in a towel. He's got
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 11: this sing in kind of a pristine condition. He's left
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 11: it in. So you know, they had a field day
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 11: when they got their hands on the sing in the lab.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 15: Police Kary Robinson roommate a biologic Gummell was involved in
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 15: a romantic relationship with Robinson. The roommate called police and
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 15: the roommate and received messages for rob and said about
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 15: the shooting, and he had provide those messages to police.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 23: I can get close to it, but there's a squad
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 23: car park right by it. I think they already swept
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 23: that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 23: wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 23: as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 23: old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 23: I don't even know if it had a serial number,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 23: but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 23: I had to leave it in a bush where I
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 23: changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 23: it with I might have to abandon it and hope
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 23: they don't find Prince. How the will I explain losing
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 23: it to my old man?
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I think he needs to get his priorities straight. He's
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: worried about his dad being mad he lost the grandpa's gun?
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: What about the death penalty?
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 15: That?
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: What is he thinking? Dot Bethony Marshall And.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: Did you notice this is a recrey of all of
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: the texts the legislature sends to the room. If you notice,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: roommate's not answering, He's like, what, But the guy's worried
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: about losing Rampa's gun.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 21: Nancy, I'd love to talk about the idea that he
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 21: thinks that what's on the bullets are a meme. A
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 21: meme is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 21: of the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 21: viral and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 21: being famous, like being some kind of a hero.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: The reference to the bulge. I take all of this seriously.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: None of it is a joke.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 21: The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 21: If he were my patient, I would ask him what
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 21: is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 21: over a crowd of family and children. Is it that
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 21: sadism is exciting? Having power over people is exciting. I'd
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 21: want to try to get to the root of that,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 21: to understand this guy's mind.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: You know what, There's so much happening in this case.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: Remember the old old guy at the get go that
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: claims he was responsible for the shaoting.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: I did it.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 16: I did it, raising both hands now saying that he
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 16: was just trying to give the real shooter a chance
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 16: to get away.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, listen to what the alleged sheeter says about that.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: I thought they caught the person.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 23: No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 23: in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 23: from my drop points shortly after, but most of that
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 23: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 23: to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: Why why did I do it?
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 15: Yeah?
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 23: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 23: negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 23: I will have left no evidence going to attempt to
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 23: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 23: seen anything about them finding it.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: How long have you been planning this? A bit over
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: a week, I believe so much.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: For the insanity defense, he had this thing planned out cold.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: But my point is George z In, the one that
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he did it.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: He was arrested.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Now everybody's trashing the FBI director for arresting him.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: He said he did it. Well, there's a sad sack
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: right there.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, bombshell, Harmonia Rodriguez. He has George Zen has caught
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: a few charges himself, hasn't he.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 19: Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 19: As Hugh said right after the shooting, this man was
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 19: film saying I shot him.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: I shot him.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 19: Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 19: give the actual shooter time to get away. We have
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 19: learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 19: in the area and he's now charged with child pornography.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 16: That just trickled off your tongue. Did you just say
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 16: child pornography?
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: Correct?
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 19: After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 19: Days later, he has been charged with this crime.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 22: So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 22: If you cannot one, the court can appoint in turning
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 22: to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of financial
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 22: status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually provisionally
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 22: appointing a rule A qualified attorney to represent you on
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 22: your case, mister Robinson. Along with their filing of their
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 22: appearance of counsel, the assigned attorneys must file declarations with
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 22: the court that outline their qualifications under Rule eight and
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 22: Rule eight C. I'm sorry. Under Rule a B and
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 22: Rule eight C for council appointment in a case where
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 22: death may be a sentencing option.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: They bid the attempt they demand to have the top
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: prosecutor thrown off. The Charlie Kirk assassin alleged assassin's case
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: is just one of the many trial strategies employees we
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: will see as this case unfold.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: The latest in this case, cameras will be allowed in
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: the courtroom, saying coverage request from news stations will be
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: evaluated on a case by case basis. Robinson's attorneys argued
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: potential jurors could be biased by slanted news reports and
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: online comments. They say live broadcasts were fueling stories and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: interfering with Robinson's right to a fair trial. State District
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: Judge Tony Graft refused to ban cameras, saying, quote, electronic
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: media coverage provides a means to facilitate the public's right
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: of access to court proceedings for those who cannot physically
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: occupy the limited space available in a courtroom. Cameras are
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: located to the rear of the courtroom behind Robinson, making
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: it harder to get images of him protecting his rights.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,