Transcript

Sharri | 14 September · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Good evening. Thanks, James. Tonight, Pauline Hanson is facing a
0:10
Speaker 1: fresh controversy after an outburst against Indigenous Australians. We'll get
0:15
Speaker 1: James Patterson's reaction shortly. This is why nation plans to
0:20
Speaker 1: ban migrants from 26 countries, including Ukraine. And the communication minister,
0:26
Speaker 1: Annika Wells, accused of trying to censor content she simply
0:31
Speaker 1: doesn't like. I'll speak with prominent United States journalist Michael Schellenberger,
0:36
Speaker 1: who says this will impact on President Trump's relationship with Australia.
0:42
Speaker 1: But first tonight, Josh Frydenberg and New South Wales Premier
0:46
Speaker 1: Chris Minns have both issued warnings against the chanting of
0:49
Speaker 1: the phrase globalise the intifada on Australian streets. The former
0:54
Speaker 1: Treasurer condemned former Australian of the Year Grace Tame for
0:58
Speaker 1: uttering the offensive phrase months after the Bondi massacre. And
1:04
Speaker 1: Premier Min says it's a culture that we can't cop
1:07
Speaker 1: in Australia. They both made the comments at the launch
1:10
Speaker 1: of our book, Bondi Terror, on Thursday night. Our book
1:14
Speaker 1: is out tomorrow. Find it in bookstores or order from
1:17
Speaker 1: Amazon online. And here's the New South Wales Premier who
1:22
Speaker 1: gave us a frank interview for the book where we
1:25
Speaker 1: pressed him on the mistakes made by many politicians.
1:30
Speaker 2: The truth is this book has some hard questions for
1:33
Speaker 2: civic and political leaders like me. I'll repeat what I
1:37
Speaker 2: said to Shari and Alex in this book. It's the
1:41
Speaker 2: first job, the first job of government to protect its
1:44
Speaker 2: citizens and we failed our Jewish brothers and sisters on
1:48
Speaker 2: December the 14th. We made some big mistakes, including the
1:53
Speaker 2: decision to let protesters march on the Opera House two
1:57
Speaker 2: days after October the 7th. And bear in mind, that
2:00
Speaker 2: was before any action in Gaza. We owe it to
2:04
Speaker 2: the victims of Bondi not just to mouth the right
2:07
Speaker 2: words or go through the motions or to convince ourselves
2:11
Speaker 2: that this was just an aberrant act of a few
2:13
Speaker 2: bad apples, but we must say clearly and unambiguously We
2:19
Speaker 2: will not tolerate anti-Semitism. We find it abhorrent when people
2:24
Speaker 2: glorify violence by chanting globalise the intifada on our streets
2:29
Speaker 2: and we won't cop that culture in Australia.
2:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, we won't cop that culture in Australia. And men's
2:36
Speaker 1: parade tribute to the many big-hearted victims who lost their
2:40
Speaker 1: lives at Bondi, along with the heroes who came to
2:44
Speaker 1: the aid of so many others. Josh Frydenberg also spoke,
2:48
Speaker 1: and he spoke about how the repeated warnings of a
2:51
Speaker 1: loss of life were ignored.
2:55
Speaker 3: Those people who were in positions of authority ignored the warnings.
3:03
Speaker 3: There were desperate cries for help that fell on deaf ears.
3:10
Speaker 3: And for that, 15 people lost their lives. It was
3:17
Speaker 3: cascading examples and exhibits of terror and harassment and intimidation
3:28
Speaker 3: that was, of course, going to culminate in this most
3:31
Speaker 3: dreadful terrorist attack on Australian soil in our history.
3:37
Speaker 1: And Frydenberg pointed out that, sadly, despite the terror attack,
3:43
Speaker 1: for some, the lessons haven't been learned.
3:47
Speaker 3: Even months after the Bondi massacre. You have the former
3:54
Speaker 3: Australian of the Year talking about globalising the Intifada on
3:58
Speaker 3: our streets. You have one of our most distinguished, internationally
4:05
Speaker 3: recognised writers saying that the Bondi attack had nothing to
4:11
Speaker 3: do with anti-Semitism. You have journalists whose job it is
4:18
Speaker 3: to convey the truth to the Australian public, saying this
4:21
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with religion. And worst of all,
4:28
Speaker 3: you have now got people in leadership positions in Australia
4:34
Speaker 3: saying that if you support the state of Israel as
4:37
Speaker 3: a Jew, you have contributed to the climate of this hatred.
4:44
Speaker 3: I say to Australia, wake up.
4:46
Speaker 4: Yep, a.
4:49
Speaker 1: Wake-up, that's for sure. And Frydenberg said correctly that this
4:54
Speaker 1: is now a battle for the soul of our nation.
4:57
Speaker 1: He said that when anti-Semitism moves from the shameful fringe
5:01
Speaker 1: to the public square, it's no longer about the Jews,
5:05
Speaker 1: it's about everyone else. News Corp Chair Lachlan Murdoch also
5:10
Speaker 1: spoke at our launch. He addressed the Bondi victims directly.
5:15
Speaker 5: We grieve for all who were injured and lost, your sons,
5:23
Speaker 5: your daughters, your parents, and your husbands, and your wives,
5:30
Speaker 5: your rabbi, and your friends. This book remembers and honors them,
5:39
Speaker 5: as well as the many heroes who stepped in, who
5:41
Speaker 5: stepped up when it mattered most. I cannot imagine your pain.
5:50
Speaker 5: I cannot imagine how hard it was to sit with
5:53
Speaker 5: Shari and Alex and tell your story and the story
5:58
Speaker 5: of your loved ones. I can't imagine it. But without
6:03
Speaker 5: your courage and your strength and your honesty, this book
6:07
Speaker 5: could not have been written.
6:10
Speaker 1: And he's right to point out their courage and bravery. Many, well,
6:16
Speaker 1: actually most of our interviews were through floods of tears
6:21
Speaker 1: for what never should have happened. And Lachlan also spoke
6:25
Speaker 1: about how warnings on threats of violence from Iran and
6:28
Speaker 1: elsewhere had often been met with silence. He spoke of
6:33
Speaker 1: indifference or political cowardice.
6:37
Speaker 5: It is the job of the Royal Commission, due to
6:39
Speaker 5: report in December, to grapple with these multiple failures and
6:42
Speaker 5: to provide clear evidence and concrete solutions. It must address
6:49
Speaker 5: these failures robustly and head on so that no one
6:53
Speaker 5: is ever afraid to celebrate a holiday at a beachside park.
6:59
Speaker 5: It must address these failures so that no child is
7:02
Speaker 5: frightened walking to school or to synagogue, so that no
7:07
Speaker 5: hate symbols are painted on Jewish-owned businesses, so that there
7:11
Speaker 5: are no more firebombings of people's homes, and places of worship.
7:17
Speaker 1: Incredibly important, so well said. And Lachlan said this must change,
7:22
Speaker 1: and he had this powerful message.
7:26
Speaker 5: And then it will be up to us, all Australians,
7:31
Speaker 5: Jews and non-Jews, our political leaders, our institutions, our universities,
7:39
Speaker 5: all of us, to together roll back the rise of anti-Semitism.
7:45
Speaker 1: Yep, it's an incredibly important message to hear and many
7:48
Speaker 1: were emotional hearing it on the night. And we're beyond
7:52
Speaker 1: lucky that there is one media organisation that has this
7:55
Speaker 1: unwavering commitment, this unwavering moral clarity. And listening in the
8:01
Speaker 1: audience were Matilda's family, her dad, Michael, standing alongside his wife, Valentina.
8:10
Speaker 1: and their daughter, Summer, they got up on stage and
8:13
Speaker 1: Michael spoke bravely and emotionally about his little girl who
8:17
Speaker 1: went to have her face painted and dance at Bondi
8:21
Speaker 1: Beach but never made it home. And here was Michael
8:25
Speaker 1: saying that he's determined to spread Matilda's infectious spirit with
8:31
Speaker 1: all of Australia.
8:32
Speaker 6: At first I just wanted to share Matilda B's with
8:39
Speaker 6: as many people as possible. My idea was, I'm just
8:42
Speaker 6: going to print the stickers, make some pins, and tell people,
8:46
Speaker 6: you know, order them for free. You have a little Matilda,
8:53
Speaker 6: I'll be able to instill that love for life and
9:02
Speaker 6: for humor, for love. If we wanted to do something positive,
9:06
Speaker 6: and I'll bring the smiles, bring some and general outreach
9:10
Speaker 6: towards Australians.
9:13
Speaker 1: And you can see little Summer there who no longer
9:16
Speaker 1: has her big sister. New South Wales opposition leader Kelly
9:21
Speaker 1: Sloan spoke emotionally about how after the attack she felt
9:25
Speaker 1: she couldn't ever tell her community again that they'd be safe.
9:30
Speaker 1: And she spoke about what she thinks needs to change
9:33
Speaker 1: to keep all Australians secure.
9:37
Speaker 7: And I saw.
9:39
Speaker 7: I saw my local community massacred, people like Elon injured.
9:44
Speaker 7: And I sat with people in this room and you
9:49
Speaker 7: can't ever forget that. But Australia has woken up and
9:54
Speaker 7: we need to make sure people stay awake.
9:57
Speaker 1: And we heard from survivors about how they're rebuilding their lives. Elon,
10:02
Speaker 1: who was shot six times, and Hannah, whose father, Tibor,
10:06
Speaker 1: was killed.
10:10
Speaker 8: Emotionally, there's not a day that goes by that I
10:15
Speaker 8: don't think about this, probably 20, 30.
10:17
Speaker 4: Times a day.
10:18
Speaker 8: But there is a fear, you know, there's a fear
10:21
Speaker 8: for the future generations, for my children, with the way
10:25
Speaker 8: society is and the world's going right now. There are
10:28
Speaker 8: some concerns, but I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
10:33
Speaker 1: He loved Australia. He brought us here for a better life.
10:37
Speaker 7: And I think that his message would be that he
10:43
Speaker 7: wants the old Australia back.
10:47
Speaker 1: The old Australia, but hasn't Bondi changed us forever? As
10:51
Speaker 1: we write in the book, Bondi shows us where hatred
10:54
Speaker 1: without consequences leads. It shows us that Australians are basically
11:00
Speaker 1: good and decent and fair-minded, but are susceptible to distraction,
11:05
Speaker 1: to missing the signs, to acting too late, to taking
11:08
Speaker 1: things for granted, particularly political leaders. And it shows us
11:13
Speaker 1: that the cost of failing is so great that it's
11:16
Speaker 1: measured in body bags and lost worlds. And every one
11:20
Speaker 1: of us has a duty to ensure this never happens again.
11:25
Speaker 1: I'll come back to the hero police officer later in
11:33
Speaker 1: the show with Ray Hadley because there are now calls
11:35
Speaker 1: for him to receive the highest ever civilian bravery honour.
11:41
Speaker 1: But let's turn to One Nation and it has been
11:43
Speaker 1: a rough few days for Pauline Hanson, capped off with
11:46
Speaker 1: these comments that have come to light about Indigenous Australians.
11:52
Speaker 1: What the hell have they done in this country?
11:54
Speaker 9: For, you know, supposedly 60,000 years, they'd never invented the wheel.
12:00
Speaker 1: There was nothing there. What are we actually holding up?
12:04
Speaker 1: A few, you know, rock paintings?
12:06
Speaker 10: Sorry.
12:07
Speaker 9: They're the most primitive.
12:09
Speaker 11: Race on earth.
12:11
Speaker 1: Look, I want to echo and endorse what James Bolt
12:14
Speaker 1: said just a bit earlier. This is the worst of
12:17
Speaker 1: what's been said by the One Nation leader. And the
12:19
Speaker 1: condemnation was swift. But over the weekend, there were also
12:23
Speaker 1: her comments about the Prime Minister's mother. They emerged.
12:28
Speaker 9: House Commission houses should not be there for people to
12:30
Speaker 9: live in them for 30, 40. And he said his
12:32
Speaker 9: mother lived in the same one. She was born in
12:35
Speaker 9: for 65 years. Sorry, that's not on to me. It
12:37
Speaker 9: should be limited time. You've been given a hand up.
12:40
Speaker 9: Moving on to the next one's coming through.
12:44
Speaker 1: It's worth noting these comments were made earlier in the
12:46
Speaker 1: year to Karl Stefanovic and conveniently reappeared just before the
12:51
Speaker 1: sitting week. But nonetheless, the criticism was bipartisan.
12:55
Speaker 12: I don't think you should be talking about the late
12:59
Speaker 12: mother of anyone in this game and certainly not reflecting
13:02
Speaker 12: on circumstances over which she had no understanding.
13:05
Speaker 13: I reckon, mums, you leave out of politics.
13:07
Speaker 14: Attacking a woman who's been dead for more than 20
13:09
Speaker 14: years for living in public housing is off limits. For
13:13
Speaker 14: God's sake, there's a line and Pauline Hanson regularly crosses
13:17
Speaker 14: the line.
13:18
Speaker 7: I'm all for free speech, but attacking someone's dead mum,
13:22
Speaker 7: is that really what we've come to when it comes
13:25
Speaker 7: to free speech in this country?
13:28
Speaker 1: James Patterson standing by with his reaction. But this all
13:31
Speaker 1: kicked off last week with Andrew Hastie accusing Pauline Hanson
13:35
Speaker 1: and Barnaby Joyce of being lying cowards over this One
13:39
Speaker 1: Nation cartoon that branded him a traitor. Traitor?
13:44
Speaker 13: Why are they calling you a traitor?
13:45
Speaker 1: I don't know.
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Speaker 2: All I did was testify against Ben Robert Smith and
13:49
Speaker 2: support your evil hate speech legislation after promising not to.
13:52
Speaker 13: Yeah, right, that is pretty traitorous, actually.
13:54
Speaker 2: But now I'll never be the leader and it's all
13:56
Speaker 2: my fault because I'm a stupid traitor!
14:00
Speaker 1: For that, Pauline Hanson received criticism from the RSL national
14:03
Speaker 1: president who said it was offensive to veterans everywhere. It
14:07
Speaker 1: also seemed to drive a bit of a wedge between
14:10
Speaker 1: Hanson and Barnaby Joyce, with Joyce readily apologising to Hastie
14:14
Speaker 1: for the cartoon. Hanson wasn't so forthcoming. Well, now let's
14:19
Speaker 1: bring in Shadow Defence Minister James Patterson live in Canberra. James,
14:23
Speaker 1: I'm going to get to some areas in your portfolio
14:26
Speaker 1: in a moment, but I want to start with your
14:29
Speaker 1: view on the comments that Pauline Hanson made about Anthony
14:33
Speaker 1: Albanese's mother.
14:36
Speaker 12: Shari, I've been highly, highly critical of the Prime Minister,
14:40
Speaker 12: not just his policies, not just his conduct in office,
14:44
Speaker 12: but often including on his character and on this program
14:48
Speaker 12: many times. But there's a line and families have traditionally,
14:53
Speaker 12: for good reasons, been outside that line. It is completely
14:56
Speaker 12: unnecessary and inappropriate to target someone's deceased mother as.
15:01
Speaker 13: Part of a political attack on them.
15:04
Speaker 12: Lord knows we've got enough material to hold Anthony Albanese
15:07
Speaker 12: to account for his failings, to argue the case for
15:09
Speaker 12: why he shouldn't continue to govern this country after the
15:12
Speaker 12: next election without resorting to defamation of the dead.
15:16
Speaker 1: I just want to get your thoughts on her remarks
15:18
Speaker 1: that emerged today, that Indigenous Australians are primitive and that
15:23
Speaker 1: all they've ever done are some paintings.
15:27
Speaker 12: It's just extraordinary, Shari, to hear an elected political leader
15:30
Speaker 12: speak like this about their fellow Australians. There are genuine
15:34
Speaker 12: issues in Indigenous communities, particularly remote Indigenous communities, and my colleague,
15:39
Speaker 12: Senator Jacinta Nambajimpa-Price, has spoken courageously about how some cultural
15:44
Speaker 12: practices contribute to those problems and has been vilified for
15:47
Speaker 12: many years for her courage of speaking out about that.
15:50
Speaker 12: But culture and race are very different things. You can
15:54
Speaker 12: be critical of cultural practices without saying there's something deficient
15:58
Speaker 12: about someone's race. And as is often the case with
16:01
Speaker 12: Senator Hanson, she takes a genuine issue and then goes
16:06
Speaker 12: far too far with it and obscures the genuine problems
16:10
Speaker 12: in a way that makes it harder, not easier for
16:12
Speaker 12: them to solve. So I really think she should reflect
16:15
Speaker 12: on that and apologise. And I also wonder... whether Barnaby
16:19
Speaker 12: Joyce and David Farley and other One Nation colleagues are
16:21
Speaker 12: willing to defend this. I mean, Barnaby is often sent
16:24
Speaker 12: out to do the clean-up job after Pauline Hanson. When
16:28
Speaker 12: she makes comments like this, when she goes too far,
16:30
Speaker 12: I really wonder whether even he could front up tomorrow
16:32
Speaker 12: and find an.
16:33
Speaker 13: Excuse for this.
16:35
Speaker 1: She also refuses to take down the cartoon accusing Hastie
16:38
Speaker 1: of a traitor. She says his skin is too thin,
16:43
Speaker 1: that he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Your view?
16:47
Speaker 12: Well, I think it is revealing that in this instance,
16:49
Speaker 12: Barnaby Joyce could not defend that. He doesn't agree that
16:52
Speaker 12: it was appropriate to call Andrew Hastie a traitor in
16:54
Speaker 12: that video. And I want to make clear, I think disingenuously,
16:57
Speaker 12: some people have said that the argument from Andrew Hastie
17:00
Speaker 12: and colleagues, including me, is that you can never criticise
17:03
Speaker 12: him because he's a veteran. That's not the argument at all.
17:05
Speaker 12: In fact, he's a serving politician. You can criticise him
17:08
Speaker 12: for anything you like and on any grounds. But please
17:12
Speaker 12: do not question the loyalty of a decorated former soldier
17:16
Speaker 12: to his country, someone who signed up after 9-11, after
17:19
Speaker 12: he saw the Twin Towers fall, to the army to
17:22
Speaker 12: fight Islamist terror, who's not only a veteran but a
17:25
Speaker 12: combat veteran who had to say goodbye to his wife
17:28
Speaker 12: multiple times, not knowing whether he would ever return. Say
17:31
Speaker 12: whatever you'd like about Andrew Hastie, but don't smear him
17:34
Speaker 12: and every other veteran as a traitor to their country.
17:37
Speaker 1: Just a quick follow-up to that, I mean, Hastie is
17:40
Speaker 1: considered future leadership material, as are you, James. Are you
17:44
Speaker 1: worried that One Nation is targeting him specifically in Canning?
17:49
Speaker 13: Well, I find it very difficult to understand.
17:51
Speaker 12: Pauline Hanson says her number one objective is to get
17:53
Speaker 12: rid of Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party, to remove
17:56
Speaker 12: them from government. How does targeting Andrew Hastie help achieve
18:00
Speaker 12: that goal? There's a lot of Labor seats, 90-odd, in fact,
18:03
Speaker 12: around the country that Pauline Hanson could spend her time
18:05
Speaker 12: and energy on, could spend the money that they've fundraised
18:08
Speaker 12: from donors on the promise that they want to fire
18:10
Speaker 12: the liar, Anthony Albanese, Why do they spend so much
18:13
Speaker 12: time trying to get rid of Andrew Hastie? That doesn't
18:15
Speaker 12: take us one step closer towards our objective of getting
18:19
Speaker 12: rid of a very bad government.
18:21
Speaker 1: Just quickly on their migration policy, details revealed in the
18:25
Speaker 1: Daily Telegraph today, they're planning to ban migrants from 26 countries.
18:30
Speaker 1: This includes.
18:31
Speaker 6: You.
18:31
Speaker 1: Know, one of those countries is Ukraine. You know, what
18:35
Speaker 1: do you think about blanket bans instead of more specifically...
18:40
Speaker 1: analysing each individual and making sure that they do abide
18:45
Speaker 1: by Australian values?
18:48
Speaker 12: Under Labor, it's very clear that the numbers have been
18:50
Speaker 12: too high and the standards have been too low, as
18:52
Speaker 12: Angus Taylor says, and we need to urgently toughen up
18:55
Speaker 12: on both fronts. We need to bring those numbers down
18:56
Speaker 12: and we need to increase standards. But we need to
18:58
Speaker 12: do so in a way that's actually going to enhance
19:00
Speaker 12: Australia's national security, make us a safer country and is
19:04
Speaker 12: consistent with our values. We need to do it in
19:05
Speaker 12: a smart and targeted way by looking at the values
19:08
Speaker 12: of the individual migrants and Instead of this really amateur
19:12
Speaker 12: hour suggestion from One Nation, I mean, there have been
19:16
Speaker 12: times where Israel has had a do not travel advice
19:20
Speaker 12: from DFAT. Are we saying that we wouldn't want Israelis
19:22
Speaker 12: to come to Australia? I mean, the United States at times,
19:24
Speaker 12: New Zealand at times, depending on the circumstances, and Ukraine,
19:27
Speaker 12: as you say, a do not travel advice.
19:29
Speaker 13: And there are countries that wouldn't be on that.
19:31
Speaker 12: List of 26 that should be banned that nonetheless may
19:34
Speaker 12: have people that are problematic. I mean, we've talked for
19:37
Speaker 12: years about the problem of Islamist extremism in fellow Western.
19:41
Speaker 13: Democracies like the United Kingdom.
19:43
Speaker 12: I want to make sure that we go after the
19:45
Speaker 12: character of people and their values, not the country of origin,
19:48
Speaker 12: which is just a really complex tool for addressing this problem.
19:53
Speaker 1: Just finally, James, the Albanese government has appointed to a
19:56
Speaker 1: security advisory group a company which previously sold Chinese-developed anti-drone tech.
20:02
Speaker 1: What are the risks here?
20:05
Speaker 12: This is a really important story by Stephen Rice in
20:07
Speaker 12: The Australian that identifies that a company that has been
20:10
Speaker 12: on this panel but also contracted to deliver counter drone
20:13
Speaker 12: capability to defend our bases from drone incursions may have
20:18
Speaker 12: Chinese origins in the source of their technology. Now, it's
20:21
Speaker 12: a problem for a range of reasons, but the most
20:23
Speaker 12: obvious one is that incursions onto those bases are often
20:26
Speaker 12: by Chinese drones. And in the future, one of our
20:30
Speaker 12: potential adversaries who might try to defeat that counter drone
20:33
Speaker 12: technology is the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic
20:37
Speaker 12: of China. We don't want them to have an insight
20:40
Speaker 12: into the defensive drone technology we're putting on our bases.
20:43
Speaker 12: So we need much better answers from the Department of
20:45
Speaker 12: Defence about why they chose this company and what due
20:48
Speaker 12: diligence they did to make sure that it actually can
20:51
Speaker 12: protect our bases and why it was preferable to the
20:54
Speaker 12: Australian drone defence industry companies, of which there are many.
20:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, important questions and no doubt you'll be taking the
21:01
Speaker 1: government up on those. James Patterson, thank you so much
21:03
Speaker 1: for joining us. Now, let's look at this latest push
21:08
Speaker 1: from the Albanese government to censor what you can see online. Now,
21:12
Speaker 1: on the ABC, the Communications Minister, Annika Wells, struggled to
21:15
Speaker 1: categorically rule out that this wasn't just her latest push
21:19
Speaker 1: to censor what they consider to be misinformation.
21:23
Speaker 13: So just to be clear, you won't return to.
21:26
Speaker 1: That's right.
21:26
Speaker 13: to miss and disinformation?
21:27
Speaker 14: Unfortunately.
21:28
Speaker 1: For children.
21:28
Speaker 3: Yeah.
21:29
Speaker 12: You won't return to trying to stop mis- and disinformation online?
21:34
Speaker 7: I view that policy question that is before all of
21:37
Speaker 7: us as something entirely separate to the digital.
21:39
Speaker 15: Duty of care.
21:40
Speaker 14: Will you return, though, to trying to tackle that separate
21:42
Speaker 14: issue of mis- and disinformation?
21:46
Speaker 7: At the moment, I am highly focused on introducing the
21:49
Speaker 7: digital duty of care.
21:50
Speaker 6: To the parliament.
21:52
Speaker 1: Look, the ministerial powers she would have under this new legislation,
21:57
Speaker 1: that means it's up to the minister whether content is harmful. Look,
22:00
Speaker 1: this is certainly one of the biggest concerns. But many
22:04
Speaker 1: critics see this as nothing more than a Trojan horse
22:07
Speaker 1: to impose Labor's misinformation laws that were rightly dropped in 2024.
22:13
Speaker 1: And one such critic who's been paying close attention to
22:16
Speaker 1: our government's crackdown on social media is American journalist Michael Schellenberger,
22:20
Speaker 1: and I spoke with him a little earlier. Michael, great
22:24
Speaker 1: to see you. Look, there is ministerial discretion in this
22:27
Speaker 1: legislation to determine what is considered harmful content. So it's
22:31
Speaker 1: up to the minister ultimately to decide. How worrying is this?
22:35
Speaker 16: I mean, this is an incredibly sweeping, comprehensive bill. It
22:38
Speaker 16: basically allows them to censor anything they don't like. The
22:41
Speaker 16: specific language in one part is they can censor anything that, quote,
22:45
Speaker 16: may cause serious harm, unquote.
22:48
Speaker 11: That could be psychological harm. That could be.
22:52
Speaker 16: Calling a biological male a male rather than a trans woman.
22:58
Speaker 16: That could include saying that we don't want mass migration
23:02
Speaker 16: or we're worried about terrorism from migration, all very legitimate concerns.
23:07
Speaker 16: Those could all be construed as hate speech by people
23:09
Speaker 16: that are very ideological, which we know the Labor Party
23:12
Speaker 16: and the Green Party are. I think it's ironic. The
23:16
Speaker 16: Green Party seems to want to have protests of Gaza
23:22
Speaker 16: and support of Palestine. But if you were to, you know,
23:27
Speaker 16: for example, say on social media that you support those
23:29
Speaker 16: nonviolent civil disobedience protests, a future government, maybe not a
23:35
Speaker 16: green labor government, but a conservative government or a liberal
23:37
Speaker 16: government could say that that's, you know, inciting violence or
23:41
Speaker 16: may cause serious harm because it's promoting illegal activity. So
23:45
Speaker 16: as usual, the people demanding censorship never think that they
23:48
Speaker 16: might actually.
23:49
Speaker 11: Be victims of it.
23:50
Speaker 1: I mean, I think this legislation is dangerous, irrespective of
23:53
Speaker 1: who's in government, because it's giving the minister extreme powers
23:57
Speaker 1: to arbitrarily determine what they think is harm. But the
24:01
Speaker 1: current government is a far-left government, so you consider the
24:03
Speaker 1: types of things they might consider harmful, especially when you
24:07
Speaker 1: look at the COVID pandemic. When I started reporting in
24:10
Speaker 1: Wuhan in a lab leak, that was taken off social
24:13
Speaker 1: media sites.
24:14
Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean, obviously you would see people get censored.
24:17
Speaker 16: We saw the Harvard medical professor censored on Twitter for
24:21
Speaker 16: saying that natural immunity, which we've known about for 2,500 years,
24:26
Speaker 16: works on COVID. So if you've already been sick with COVID,
24:28
Speaker 16: you don't need the vaccine. He was censored for that
24:31
Speaker 16: as so-called misinformation, or they call it misleading information because
24:36
Speaker 16: it might mislead you into.
24:37
Speaker 11: Not getting the vaccine.
24:39
Speaker 16: That's precisely the kind of thing that a government would
24:41
Speaker 16: justify for censorship. I mean, you can basically make up anything,
24:45
Speaker 16: anything that causes psychological distress. I mean, on the flip side,
24:48
Speaker 16: I think there's a lot of evidence that climate change
24:51
Speaker 16: alarmism has created anxiety disorders among children and teenagers.
24:56
Speaker 11: So you could argue that.
24:56
Speaker 16: That's caused significant harm, but are they going to censor that?
25:01
Speaker 11: No, they're just going to wield it against their political enemies.
25:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really comes down to the issue of
25:06
Speaker 1: free speech. This used to be one of the most
25:08
Speaker 1: fundamental values underpinning Western civilization. And now it's just this
25:12
Speaker 1: battle to be allowed free speech. And the tech giants
25:16
Speaker 1: are really at the center of that battle.
25:18
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, it's sad.
25:19
Speaker 16: I mean, you see, you know, people defending free speech
25:23
Speaker 16: like Elon Musk, like Mark Zuckerberg, and they're sort of
25:26
Speaker 16: cast as villains, first by the mainstream news media, now
25:29
Speaker 16: by the entertainment media. for defending free speech to travel online.
25:33
Speaker 11: We're really far away from where at.
25:36
Speaker 16: Least the United States was 50 years ago, which was
25:39
Speaker 16: that the United States Supreme Court upheld the right of
25:43
Speaker 16: even neo-Nazis to march in public.
25:44
Speaker 11: And that was a free speech cause for the left.
25:46
Speaker 16: So now they're saying we want to build a sense
25:48
Speaker 16: for people that might hurt people's feelings. I think it's
25:51
Speaker 16: a sad indictment of the ways in which they call
25:55
Speaker 16: it concept creep. Really, the idea of harm has expanded
25:59
Speaker 16: from physical harm to psychological harm. But as I said,
26:02
Speaker 16: it's all being completely, you know, it's politically motivated what
26:07
Speaker 16: it applies to. I mean, it sounds like more they're
26:08
Speaker 16: interested in banning messages that raise concerns about mass migration.
26:14
Speaker 16: So it's just a weapon that will serve whoever's in power.
26:17
Speaker 1: Let's go to that point about mass migration, because the
26:20
Speaker 1: rising force of Australian politics, One Nation, their central platform
26:24
Speaker 1: is migration. And they've really taken off in popularity since
26:28
Speaker 1: the Bondi attack. That was the turning point. Now, you
26:31
Speaker 1: could see how the Albanese government would want to censor
26:34
Speaker 1: content from their political opponents on this very topic of migration.
26:39
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's right. I mean, we know exactly what they're
26:41
Speaker 11: talking about.
26:42
Speaker 16: IPA, which is an Australian think tank, actually predicted after
26:46
Speaker 16: the Bondi attack that the government would use the Bondi
26:49
Speaker 16: attack as an excuse to censor.
26:51
Speaker 11: Criticisms of mass migration.
26:54
Speaker 16: So I think and, you know, it's I think your
26:56
Speaker 16: viewers probably know that this exact same thing is happening
26:59
Speaker 16: all over the world right now. The German government has
27:01
Speaker 16: been censoring heavily on this issue precisely to stop a
27:06
Speaker 16: party that's very similar to One Nation in Germany. In Britain,
27:10
Speaker 16: we now know that thousands of people have been arrested
27:13
Speaker 16: for social media posts, a lot of them about mass migration.
27:17
Speaker 16: And so those are reasonable things for people to talk
27:18
Speaker 16: about and be concerned about online. And the government, I think,
27:21
Speaker 16: is preparing itself to censor those things Because it's scared
27:25
Speaker 16: that when people talk about the truth, that it's going
27:26
Speaker 16: to end up helping these populist parties.
27:29
Speaker 1: Now, you wrote a big article about this on Public,
27:32
Speaker 1: your sub stack, and you spoke as well about how
27:34
Speaker 1: this could impact on the relationship between Anthony Albanese and
27:38
Speaker 1: President Donald Trump. Can you talk a bit about this?
27:42
Speaker 10: Sure.
27:42
Speaker 16: I mean, I think people know that Donald Trump was
27:44
Speaker 16: censored very badly. He was deplatformed. Facebook and Twitter kicked
27:48
Speaker 16: him off. He's very upset about that still. And this
27:53
Speaker 16: administration has wanted to fight back against online censorship. He's also,
27:58
Speaker 16: you know, he's having it on again, off again, but
28:01
Speaker 16: it's back on again relationship with Elon Musk, who owns X.
28:04
Speaker 16: And X has been the target of Australian censorship officials,
28:08
Speaker 16: the e-safety minister and now the communications minister. We know
28:12
Speaker 16: that they're just desperate to censor X. They've tried to
28:14
Speaker 16: censor X globally, not just in Australia. And so obviously
28:20
Speaker 16: they knew, the Albanese administration knew that this would upset
28:24
Speaker 16: President Trump and upset the White House.
28:28
Speaker 11: And they decided to do it anyway.
28:29
Speaker 16: And I think that must show some amount of desperation
28:32
Speaker 16: because we all know, everybody knows that Trump is retaliatory
28:35
Speaker 16: and that he's, you know, Albanese is putting in risk
28:40
Speaker 16: this trade in minerals agreement that he had been bragging
28:42
Speaker 16: about for a long time. But he's putting that at risk,
28:45
Speaker 16: and obviously it shows that they really feel like they
28:48
Speaker 16: need censorship in order to compete electorally. Otherwise, they wouldn't
28:52
Speaker 16: put in danger this kind of crowning economic trade achievement
28:57
Speaker 16: that Albanese has been taking credit for.
28:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, the left is just obsessed with misinformation, disinformation, censorship.
29:04
Speaker 1: Just finally, Michael, have you got a sense from Elon
29:07
Speaker 1: Musk or those close to him how he feels about
29:10
Speaker 1: these laws?
29:11
Speaker 16: Well, I don't think there's any question that he's extremely
29:14
Speaker 16: upset about it. He talks about it constantly. He also
29:18
Speaker 16: talks about the concerns around mass migration constantly. This is
29:21
Speaker 16: obviously dealing with both of those issues at the same time.
29:25
Speaker 11: And, you know, he's fought, you know, he fights as
29:26
Speaker 11: hard as he can.
29:27
Speaker 16: He's very persistent and he's been very clear that he
29:30
Speaker 16: wants to have free speech online. So I think you
29:32
Speaker 16: can expect that he'll fight for it. He fought and
29:35
Speaker 16: won that past censorship case in the Australian courts when
29:39
Speaker 16: the East safety minister wanted to globally censor that stabbing
29:43
Speaker 16: video and he fought it and he won.
29:45
Speaker 11: So I think that it's reasonable to expect.
29:47
Speaker 16: I haven't heard from him directly or seen him say it,
29:50
Speaker 16: but I think it's very reasonable to expect that he'll
29:51
Speaker 16: put his significant resources into fighting on the legal front.
29:57
Speaker 11: I do think that it's really up to the Australian people.
29:59
Speaker 16: You know, I think the world, everybody is sort of
30:01
Speaker 16: warned and said, this is the most extreme censorship bill
30:04
Speaker 16: that we've seen. It just gives these extraordinary powers to
30:06
Speaker 16: the government. And, you know, our hearts are with the
30:09
Speaker 16: people of Australia who I know want to be able
30:11
Speaker 16: to express themselves online. And as importantly, they want to
30:13
Speaker 16: be able to read whatever they want online without a
30:16
Speaker 16: couple of government ministers deciding what they should or.
30:19
Speaker 11: Should not be allowed to read.
30:21
Speaker 1: Exactly. Our next election isn't for another 18 months or so.
30:24
Speaker 1: So let's hope Elon Musk does take up the case.
30:27
Speaker 1: to help us out a bit, and you certainly are.
30:29
Speaker 1: Michael Schallenberger, great to speak with you again.
30:32
Speaker 11: Good to be with you, Sherry.
30:34
Speaker 1: Isn't he great? All right, still to come, Australia faces
30:36
Speaker 1: its worst productivity levels since records began. I'll speak with
30:40
Speaker 1: Bronwyn Bishop and Michael Downby about that, plus the push
30:43
Speaker 1: for the Bondi hero to be awarded the Cross of Valour.
30:47
Speaker 1: That's with Ray Hadley after the break. Welcome back. Well,
30:54
Speaker 1: let's bring in now radio legend Ray Hadley, who's on
30:57
Speaker 1: the Gold Coast this week, not with me in studio.
30:59
Speaker 1: Good to see you, Ray. Look, let's start with this
31:03
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson matter. Firstly, she's got a migration policy out
31:07
Speaker 1: that's going to be very popular with many voters, you know,
31:09
Speaker 1: cutting mass migration by 760,000 people over three years. But
31:14
Speaker 1: then she's also under fire over all these offensive comments
31:17
Speaker 1: she's made in interviews and podcasts. How do you think
31:21
Speaker 1: this is all going to go down with voters?
31:25
Speaker 17: It's what you get with Pauline, Shari, what we've discussed
31:28
Speaker 17: ad infinitum. She comes out with what we think will
31:32
Speaker 17: be palatable to the electorate in terms of migration. And
31:36
Speaker 17: then there's a pile on about Andrew Hastie, for which
31:39
Speaker 17: I think she should apologise. And then the comments about
31:42
Speaker 17: Indigenous Australians. I think she needs to qualify that and
31:46
Speaker 17: maybe draw back. But in terms of the question you
31:49
Speaker 17: asked me, I don't think it'll make any difference. The
31:52
Speaker 17: people who support Pauline... are very, very forgiving. And you
31:55
Speaker 17: table that, of course, with the fact that it's reported
31:58
Speaker 17: today that all of a sudden the electorate is deserting
32:01
Speaker 17: the Prime Minister. I don't know why it's taken them
32:02
Speaker 17: so long, but the report in the Herald says that
32:06
Speaker 17: the polls say that he's just not, of course, matching motives.
32:09
Speaker 17: And so in answer to the original question, I don't
32:11
Speaker 17: think it'll make any difference. Pauline Hanson is almost immune
32:14
Speaker 17: to criticism and she keeps bouncing back.
32:18
Speaker 6: Look.
32:18
Speaker 1: I think that the comments about Indigenous Australians are so
32:22
Speaker 1: deeply offensive to Indigenous Australians, and we're talking about a
32:26
Speaker 1: party that has a much higher primary vote than the Coalition.
32:31
Speaker 1: You know, they're on par with Labor. They're sitting on 30%.
32:34
Speaker 1: So I just wish she'd start speaking in a more
32:38
Speaker 1: responsible way because you can see a scenario. I mean,
32:43
Speaker 1: we don't know how this is going to play out,
32:44
Speaker 1: but you can see a scenario where she might be
32:48
Speaker 1: at the very least, the opposition leader, if not, you know,
32:51
Speaker 1: some sort of coalition government. But she could be the
32:54
Speaker 1: opposition leader. And we've got to have respect for all Australians,
32:58
Speaker 1: of all races and nationalities.
33:02
Speaker 8: Well, I think a lot of.
33:03
Speaker 17: People like you have been wishing Portland had changed its
33:05
Speaker 17: tune over the last 35 years, but they hope in vain.
33:09
Speaker 17: And as I say, the electorate is very forgiving of her,
33:13
Speaker 17: much more forgiving than I thought they would be over
33:15
Speaker 17: a whole range of matters. over the last 12 months
33:17
Speaker 17: to two years. And yes, she should apologise and withdraw.
33:20
Speaker 17: It is offensive. There's no doubt about it. But the
33:22
Speaker 17: question is, will the electorate forgive her? And I think
33:24
Speaker 17: the answer is yes, they will, because it's Pauline. That's
33:27
Speaker 17: what you get with Pauline.
33:28
Speaker 15: Yeah.
33:29
Speaker 1: Ray, I want to get your views on the sentence
33:31
Speaker 1: that's been given for the killer convicted of Molly Tysert's
33:34
Speaker 1: brutal murder. This is in 2024. He's been jailed for
33:39
Speaker 1: 28 years. 31-year-old Daniel Billings broke into Molly's home. He
33:43
Speaker 1: stabbed her 15 times with a hunting knife. you know,
33:46
Speaker 1: young mother. People are furious. Kelly Sloan said the community
33:50
Speaker 1: expects the punishment should reflect the seriousness of this horrific murder. So,
33:54
Speaker 1: you know, why is he going to be walking free
33:56
Speaker 1: before his 50th birthday?
34:00
Speaker 17: Well, Her Honour Natalie Johnson said that in sentencing, Natalie Adams,
34:06
Speaker 17: I should correct, said in sentencing this fellow that, you know,
34:11
Speaker 17: the family are devastated. A small child's been left without
34:14
Speaker 17: a mother. she would have been terrified in the final
34:17
Speaker 17: stages of her life when he stabbed her 15 times.
34:19
Speaker 17: And you get the feeling that she's, Natalie Adams, is
34:21
Speaker 17: building up to a long sentence. And I've spoken to
34:23
Speaker 17: different people that I respect, you know, retired judges and
34:27
Speaker 17: the like, who tell me that an appropriate sentence would
34:29
Speaker 17: have been 36 years at the top and 30 at
34:31
Speaker 17: the bottom. And we've got to stop saying 28 years, Shari.
34:34
Speaker 17: It's not 28 years. That's the maximum. We talk about
34:38
Speaker 17: minimums when we talk about sentences. It's 20 years. He
34:41
Speaker 17: served two already. So it's 18 years and he's out
34:43
Speaker 17: before he's 50. She was talking about all those things.
34:46
Speaker 17: And you think more power to you saying these things.
34:49
Speaker 17: Then all of a sudden, as I read the sentencing document,
34:51
Speaker 17: she changed his tune. He can be rehabilitated. In what
34:56
Speaker 17: atmosphere or universe does this boy get rehabilitated? And this
35:00
Speaker 17: is the other thing she said before she pronounced sentence.
35:03
Speaker 17: He's showing genuine remorse now. It's been my experience over
35:06
Speaker 17: the last 35 years, when a murderer is about to
35:09
Speaker 17: be sent down, they usually find remorse in their soul
35:13
Speaker 17: because they know the person who's presiding over them will
35:15
Speaker 17: take that into account. Plus, they get a 25% discount
35:18
Speaker 17: for a guilty plea and all the other things that
35:19
Speaker 17: have happened. But it's what I spoke to you about
35:21
Speaker 17: two weeks ago. Crispin's announced very serious punishment for these
35:26
Speaker 17: young people involved in murder for hire. And he kept saying,
35:29
Speaker 17: we're going to increase the maximum, they're going to be
35:31
Speaker 17: treated as adults, they're going to do this and going
35:32
Speaker 17: to do that. When a politician has the guts and
35:36
Speaker 17: the gumption to say, we are introducing mandatory minimum sentences
35:40
Speaker 17: with no wriggle room for the judiciary, then we'll get
35:43
Speaker 17: a result and we won't get people like the bloke
35:45
Speaker 17: on Friday getting out in 18 years after a horrific
35:49
Speaker 17: murder of a young woman. And don't forget, as a
35:51
Speaker 17: woman as well, Shari, you know that we talk all
35:53
Speaker 17: the time about domestic violence. We talk all the time
35:56
Speaker 17: about it and how it's got to stop. What sort
35:59
Speaker 17: of message is this saying?
36:00
Speaker 13: Just terrible.
36:01
Speaker 1: Terrible.
36:01
Speaker 10: I know.
36:02
Speaker 1: It's not about... rehabilitation or remorse, there's got to be
36:06
Speaker 1: a punishment for the crime. And this was a horrific crime. Ray,
36:09
Speaker 1: before you go, I want to get your view on this.
36:11
Speaker 1: This is a hero cop, Cesar Barraza. We revealed his
36:14
Speaker 1: story in our book. He sprinted towards the gunfire, ended
36:18
Speaker 1: the shooting without even a bulletproof vest. Well, since I
36:21
Speaker 1: revealed this story, the New South Wales Premier, Chris Mintz,
36:24
Speaker 1: Kelly Sloan and Nationalist leader Matt Canavan all say that
36:28
Speaker 1: he should receive the cross of valour. the highest honour
36:31
Speaker 1: we give to civilians for bravery. What do you think?
36:37
Speaker 2: 120%.
36:37
Speaker 17: And congratulations to you and Alex on the book.
36:41
Speaker 2: It's outstanding.
36:43
Speaker 17: And I think your book should be a text, a
36:46
Speaker 17: textbook in institutions like educational institutions, particularly places like Sydney Uni, Shari.
36:53
Speaker 17: So these people can read about what happened on that
36:55
Speaker 17: terrible time. But in relation to this man, I read
36:58
Speaker 17: the excerpts from your book And I was absolutely baffled
37:04
Speaker 17: by bravery. I couldn't believe that a man who was
37:08
Speaker 17: having a feed back at Bondi Police Station would take
37:11
Speaker 17: his service revolver with no vest, no vest, and take
37:15
Speaker 17: on these two lunatics. And discharge 15 of 18 rounds
37:18
Speaker 17: without any other rounds there and put himself at risk.
37:21
Speaker 17: And then I read about the tree he was hiding
37:24
Speaker 17: behind as he shot one and then wounded another.
37:26
Speaker 10: Mm-hmm.
37:27
Speaker 17: Which was peppered with bullets, which could have caught him.
37:30
Speaker 17: Of course he should be decorated. The highest honour should
37:33
Speaker 17: go to this man. He's a great credit to New
37:35
Speaker 17: South Wales Police and he's a great credit to Australia.
37:38
Speaker 1: Completely agree. Completely agree. Ray Hadley, hopefully I'll see you
37:41
Speaker 1: back in studio next week. Have a good one.
37:45
Speaker 17: I'll be back there.
37:46
Speaker 13: See you later.
37:46
Speaker 17: Bye-bye.
37:47
Speaker 1: See you. Still to come, outrage after Zoran Mamdani laughed
37:52
Speaker 1: while the names of those killed in the 9-11 attacks
37:55
Speaker 1: were read out. Plus, the figures are in. Deradicalisation programs
37:59
Speaker 1: are not working. That's after the break. Welcome back. Well,
38:07
Speaker 1: let's bring in tonight's panel, former Speaker of the House,
38:09
Speaker 1: Bronwyn Bishop, and former Labor MP Michael Zambi. Great to
38:13
Speaker 1: see you both. Well, let's start with these reports about
38:15
Speaker 1: the fuel excise. It's being reported that the government is
38:19
Speaker 1: considering cutting the fuel excise again as the war in
38:21
Speaker 1: Iran rages on. And, of course, you know, we're expecting
38:25
Speaker 1: fuel prices to increase again. Bronwyn, we don't know when
38:29
Speaker 1: the war is going to end. Do you think the government...
38:32
Speaker 1: I mean, it only cut the fuel excise temporarily. Should
38:35
Speaker 1: it be doing this again, or are you worried it
38:37
Speaker 1: could be inflationary?
38:38
Speaker 10: No, I don't worry about the inflation side of it
38:41
Speaker 10: because by bringing down the cost... It will reduce the
38:44
Speaker 10: cost of deliveries. What does worry me is, well, I
38:50
Speaker 10: think what is quite apparent is it's panic stations.
38:53
Speaker 11: Yeah.
38:54
Speaker 10: They are seeing the polls. Nobody believes them. There's no
38:58
Speaker 10: trust in them. And suddenly they say, well, we'll put
39:01
Speaker 10: down the cost of petrol.
39:03
Speaker 3: It's panic.
39:04
Speaker 1: Mm-mm. Because we're seeing figures, Michael, like Bill Kelty come
39:09
Speaker 1: out in an interview with Paul Sakala on the weekend,
39:13
Speaker 1: and he's warning about the economy, you know, a famous
39:16
Speaker 1: former union figure, you know, really quite a union legend.
39:21
Speaker 1: And he's coming out to speak against both the Prime
39:24
Speaker 1: Minister and the Treasurer on the economy.
39:27
Speaker 4: First of all, congratulations on the book feature.
39:30
Speaker 1: You and Alex. Thank you, Michael.
39:31
Speaker 4: And when Bill Kelty and Kevin Rudd both say the
39:34
Speaker 4: Australian economy have problems, it really has problems. So the
39:39
Speaker 4: Labor government has to get back to previous Labor governments.
39:43
Speaker 4: I've got a three-point plan for them. Cut government expenditure.
39:47
Speaker 4: stop subsidising mad green schemes like windmills and green hydrogen
39:51
Speaker 4: and dump the ridiculous industry-wide industrial relations bargaining that Tony
40:01
Speaker 4: Burke reintroduced when he dumped Bill Kelty's enterprise bargaining.
40:07
Speaker 1: I mean, on the economy, Bronwyn, there's new data from
40:09
Speaker 1: the ABS today that shows Labor will deliver the worst
40:12
Speaker 1: decade in productivity since the records began in 1960.
40:17
Speaker 10: Absolutely. And let's face it, everybody knows how bad they are.
40:23
Speaker 10: It doesn't matter whether you're in a taxi, an Uber,
40:26
Speaker 10: on the street, everyone knows.
40:28
Speaker 1: Everyone's talking about it.
40:29
Speaker 4: Yes.
40:29
Speaker 10: It's just appalling. And when you see those statistics up
40:35
Speaker 10: there that show just how bad it is. Yeah.
40:40
Speaker 1: I mean.
40:42
Speaker 1: Michael Broman's right. This is what everyone's talking about, how
40:45
Speaker 1: badly our Australian economy is doing, whether it's the property market,
40:51
Speaker 1: whether it's the tobacco issue that's caused an explosion in crime.
40:57
Speaker 1: Everywhere you look, these latest laws that are giving the
41:00
Speaker 1: minister too much control to censor what she doesn't like
41:03
Speaker 1: on the internet, everything is a disaster.
41:09
Speaker 4: I can only.
41:11
Speaker 4: Reiterate what you've just said. The point is this Labor
41:15
Speaker 4: government is not like previous Labor governments. It's dominated by
41:19
Speaker 4: Penny Wong and Albo, the socialist left. The right of
41:23
Speaker 4: the Labor Party is hopeless. Jim Chalmers should be doing
41:28
Speaker 4: what Peter Walsh and Paul Keating and Bill Kelty did
41:31
Speaker 4: in the past, and that is have enterprise bargaining, cut
41:35
Speaker 4: government expenditures and and stop subsidising Chris Bowen's mad green
41:41
Speaker 4: windmills and green hydrogen and all of the other fantasies.
41:45
Speaker 1: But the problem is, Bronwyn, this is how bad the
41:48
Speaker 1: government is, but they're not turning to the Coalition.
41:52
Speaker 10: No, but they are turning away from the government. And
41:56
Speaker 10: that's why I keep using the expression, there needs to
41:59
Speaker 10: be an accommodation system between One Nation and the Coalition.
42:02
Speaker 1: I mean, their policies are so far apart. Did you
42:04
Speaker 1: hear James Paterson before?
42:06
Speaker 10: I did hear James Paterson.
42:08
Speaker 1: I did.
42:08
Speaker 10: But I don't think that that's without being able to
42:12
Speaker 10: be resolved. I do think, unless we see the strong
42:17
Speaker 10: commitment to getting rid of the government being the common cause,
42:22
Speaker 10: we could get them back. And the country can't afford it.
42:25
Speaker 1: But even the migration policy, they're miles apart. The coalition
42:30
Speaker 1: for one nation.
42:31
Speaker 10: I think the migration policy will appeal to people as
42:34
Speaker 10: it's come out today. And we're now seeing the government,
42:40
Speaker 10: or rather we're now seeing business, have a voice again.
42:44
Speaker 10: And they are being heard. And they're speaking out. And
42:47
Speaker 10: once you start to see that change, you know that
42:50
Speaker 10: change is coming.
42:51
Speaker 3: Yep.
42:52
Speaker 7: All right.
42:52
Speaker 1: Let's look at this report in The Australian about the
42:55
Speaker 1: government's $ 75 million flagship de-radicalisation program. It shows that it's
43:00
Speaker 1: failing miserably. Of almost 300 extremists or people vulnerable to radicalisation, Michael,
43:08
Speaker 1: 227 reportedly had no change in concern level. I mean.
43:15
Speaker 4: And, Shari, some will become worse. So these schemes are
43:21
Speaker 4: what you call a Yiddish lufka shift. They're just nonsense.
43:25
Speaker 4: They don't work. And the detective superintendent, Craig, who Peter
43:31
Speaker 4: Credlin constantly has on her program, has testified as to
43:35
Speaker 4: how empty these things are. way of handling de-radicalisation is
43:40
Speaker 4: don't let the radicals into Australia. Too many Gaza refugees,
43:44
Speaker 4: too many ISIS brides and failure of Albo and Burke
43:48
Speaker 4: to warn radical Muslim elements in Western Sydney when they're
43:52
Speaker 4: involved in events like the Opera House. That's why it happens.
43:57
Speaker 4: That would be much more effective than de-radicalisation.
44:00
Speaker 1: I think there's been too much of a reliance on
44:02
Speaker 1: these programs rather than on immigration control, Bronwyn.
44:06
Speaker 10: They were always going to be a failure. Samuel P.
44:09
Speaker 10: Huntington was quite right when he said the post-collapse of
44:13
Speaker 10: the Soviet Union period would be the clash of civilisations.
44:18
Speaker 10: And a fundamental difference between what's happening in this country,
44:23
Speaker 10: our culture is there's a separation of church and state.
44:27
Speaker 10: We've got a large migration of people here who do
44:30
Speaker 10: not believe that. They believe that the law of their
44:34
Speaker 10: religion should be the law of the land. And that
44:37
Speaker 10: is a clash of civilisations. And Michael's quite right. We
44:42
Speaker 10: can't allow people to come in here who simply want
44:45
Speaker 10: to destroy the way of life that is here. We
44:48
Speaker 10: want people to come who will join in and contribute
44:52
Speaker 10: to the nation. We're a very welcoming people, but we
44:56
Speaker 10: can't do it with people who want to destroy it.
44:58
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:58
Speaker 1: Actually, we're running a book extract from my book in
45:02
Speaker 1: the News 24 website. tomorrow morning from 5am and it
45:06
Speaker 1: goes to some of these issues. Really interesting comments from
45:10
Speaker 1: our interview with former Prime Minister John Howard. So tomorrow
45:14
Speaker 1: on the News24 website. Michael Danby, Bronwyn Bishop, great to
45:17
Speaker 1: see you both.
45:18
Speaker 10: Well watched.
45:19
Speaker 1: Thank you.
45:19
Speaker 10: The book is fabulous.
45:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, yeah. So that's a book extract on News24
45:23
Speaker 1: website in the morning. Alright, still to come, Mamdani captured
45:26
Speaker 1: laughing with AOC during the reading of the 9-11 victims' names. Despicable.
45:32
Speaker 1: That's after the break. Thanks for tuning in on one
45:40
Speaker 1: of America's darkest days and a day to commemorate the
45:44
Speaker 1: 9-11 attacks. New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani was spotted
45:47
Speaker 1: laughing with AOC while the names of the dead were
45:51
Speaker 1: being read out at Ground Zero.
45:55
Speaker 13: Angela Reid Kite.
45:58
Speaker 9: Andrew LaCourte.
45:59
Speaker 4: Carol Anne LaPlante.
46:02
Speaker 1: Jeffrey G.
46:04
Speaker 10: Latouche.
46:05
Speaker 11: Catherine L.
46:07
Speaker 5: Laboree.
46:08
Speaker 1: Amarnath Lachman.
46:10
Speaker 4: Ganesh K.
46:12
Speaker 5: Ladkut.
46:13
Speaker 2: James Patrick Ladley.
46:18
Speaker 1: Despicable and News 24 contributor Kosha Guida joins me now. Kosha,
46:22
Speaker 1: has he apologised?
46:26
Speaker 15: On the contrary, his campaign or his team, I should
46:29
Speaker 15: say his administration spokesperson, has contextualized it, said that he
46:34
Speaker 15: actually outlasted a lot of other politicians because he stayed
46:36
Speaker 15: there the longest, said that it was just a simple
46:39
Speaker 15: greeting between the two of them, etc. I think he
46:42
Speaker 15: knows politically that he believes that apologizing would actually put
46:46
Speaker 15: him on the back foot. And so he's just going
46:48
Speaker 15: to pretend and smile and continue on his merry way
46:51
Speaker 15: because he does remain quite popular with his constituents. And
46:53
Speaker 15: he's just going to ride this out.
46:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable, really. It really is because everyone can see
46:59
Speaker 1: the footage. I want to turn to AI now. We've
47:02
Speaker 1: seen President Trump defending his low-regulation approach or what's been
47:05
Speaker 1: called a low-regulation approach to AI, saying the US must
47:09
Speaker 1: outpace China in the AI space. He says whoever wins
47:13
Speaker 1: AI wins. But, Kosha, there's alarm after an ex-anthropic employee
47:17
Speaker 1: has warned of world-ending consequences over the tech. What have
47:23
Speaker 1: others been saying about this?
47:26
Speaker 15: This certainly has spilled out into the public domain beyond
47:29
Speaker 15: the walls of Silicon Valley in the last week or so.
47:32
Speaker 15: And it's tricky because there's almost three vectors to it, Shari.
47:35
Speaker 15: So one is this existential threat to humanity and this
47:39
Speaker 15: idea like sci-fi books and movies that we've all grown
47:42
Speaker 15: up watching may actually be closer to reality than we
47:44
Speaker 15: think and the machines will become smarter than us and
47:46
Speaker 15: who knows what happens. But the other flip side of
47:49
Speaker 15: that is China, as President Trump mentioned, that whoever wins
47:53
Speaker 15: AI is going to dominate the next century, and he
47:55
Speaker 15: doesn't want to cede that ground to China that's going
47:57
Speaker 15: to follow a different regulatory model. And the other piece
48:00
Speaker 15: of it, too, is that the big tech companies that
48:02
Speaker 15: are pushing for this, and Anthropic and Altman of OpenAI
48:06
Speaker 15: have been there signing this letter, This is about regulatory
48:10
Speaker 15: capture for them because one argument is that it suits
48:14
Speaker 15: them to get regulation in place because they will help
48:16
Speaker 15: write those rules. They will be the ones to benefit
48:19
Speaker 15: from it. The rules will be such that it will
48:21
Speaker 15: box out other smaller competitors from coming in. So there's
48:24
Speaker 15: sort of an ulterior motive as well. And I think
48:26
Speaker 15: all of that is going to hash itself out. Probably
48:29
Speaker 15: regulation and governments are not the right vehicle to control this.
48:33
Speaker 15: And that's what Trump administration, David Sachs, was saying, that
48:36
Speaker 15: if you guys are really that worried about what's happening,
48:38
Speaker 15: you are the leaders of AI. You can step it
48:40
Speaker 15: back yourselves. You don't need a permission slip from the government.
48:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Kosha, just
48:46
Speaker 1: turning to the war in Iran now, Iranian-backed Houthi rebels
48:49
Speaker 1: have captured the Bab Amandeb Strait. This is a major
48:52
Speaker 1: shipping choke point that separates the Red Sea and the
48:55
Speaker 1: Gulf of Aden. What sort of impact could this have
48:58
Speaker 1: on the strategy of the war?
49:02
Speaker 15: It certainly feels like another twist, though cynics would say
49:05
Speaker 15: maybe not entirely unpredictable. It's just further showing that these
49:09
Speaker 15: rebel groups or outposts of the Iranian regime have a
49:12
Speaker 15: lot of control on these important choke points in that
49:15
Speaker 15: part of the world that a lot of supply chains
49:16
Speaker 15: and energy shipped through. So it is another twist that
49:19
Speaker 15: doesn't help the case. It certainly increases the leverage of
49:23
Speaker 15: Iran at the negotiating table because the Houthis are, of course,
49:26
Speaker 15: an outgrowth from them. And it just furthermore, with the
49:30
Speaker 15: midterms around the corner and this war being ever more
49:32
Speaker 15: unpopular with President Trump and gasoline prices are up and
49:36
Speaker 15: all the rest of it, it's certainly not good for
49:39
Speaker 15: the US and for the allies that wanted to contain Iran.
49:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's the political side of it as
49:44
Speaker 1: well and how this is going to impact on the
49:47
Speaker 1: Republicans in the midterms. So there's that as well. Kosha Gada,
49:50
Speaker 1: thank you very much, as always, for your insights. And tomorrow,
49:55
Speaker 1: big day for us here. We've got our book launch,
49:57
Speaker 1: so tune in at 8 o'clock. But right now, here's
50:00
Speaker 1: Paul Murray in the man cave.