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The stocks the billionaires are buying · The Money Puzzle

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Australian's Money Puzzle Podcast. I'm
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: James Kirby, the Wealth Editor at The Australian. Welcome aboard, everybody.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I imagine, like me, like everyone, you've been watching the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: share market coming right just in time, really, the last
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: month or two for the financial year. And we're looking
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: at double-digit returns. We're looking at total returns for the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Australian market. If we ruled off today, we'd come in
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: easy at about 11% or 12% pre-franking. And there's a
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: few days to go. And if anything, it might be
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: better than that. Even 10 days ago, it was a
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: few percent higher. It moves around. So I think people
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: are getting interested. I've certainly detected, and you can see
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: it in the trading volumes and the reports from the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: various operators about what's being traded and the volumes being
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: traded and the action and the fact that we had
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: no IPOs. We had no share market floats for so long.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And today we've got a big, fat, juicy IPO, which
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. the Guzmany gold made float.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: But what I really wanted to talk about was my colleague,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: John Stenshold, friend of the show, though he edits the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Rich 200 and he's across what all these tycoons do.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: This is a very interesting research a few days ago,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: where he looked at how the very rich, the billionaires,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: have been doing on the share market with their own
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: share portfolios, what they've got right, what they've got wrong.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Some really interesting ones about what they got wrong and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: some really interesting ones about who got it right. So
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have a chat with him today. and
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: have a look at what we might find out. How
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: are you, John?
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I'm very well, James.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Great to have you, Juan. Why don't we go straight
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: into the news of the day, because we're so news-edgy
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: here on The Money Puzzle that we've timed it to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: coincide with the float of Guzmany Gomez, which, in the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: unlikely event people don't know what it is, is a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: fast food chain which is in just about every suburb
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: in Australia. It has that unusual attribute that it's got
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a very high Customer visibility, very well-known brand, and this
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: often really helps floats, and it really helped Guzman y
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Gomez today. Tell us what happened, and tell us which
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: tycoon has done well here.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Well, James, yes, if you were reading the financial presses
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: in the last couple of weeks, you would have seen
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: the huge amount of promotion, I think it feels like,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: with the Guzman stock. So we finally got round to
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it floating on the ASX today, being Thursday. $ 22 was
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the issue price. It's gone up to $ 30 today. in
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: that time. I'm not sure what the analogy is with
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: a big burrito for that, James, but it's going very well.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: It's a stag burrito, John. People probably forget what a
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: stag is because there's been so many bum floats on
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the ASO. They have been aching for a good float
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: for so long, a year and a half, roughly. If
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you ignore some sort of absolutely tiny mining exploration stocks
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, a really decent big one.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So a stag float, for those who don't remember, is
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: when you buy into a float and it goes really
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: well straight away. So look, by the way, you know,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: it's not exactly knocking it out of the park. It
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: hasn't doubled or anything, but it's been a damn convincing
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: first day for this stock. And there was a sense
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that it was highly priced and they widened the IPO
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and took on more shares. That's often a sign of confidence,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: but sometimes it backfires and it didn't backfire. So Guzmany Gomez,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a new arrival on the ASX, welcome arrival because the
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: stock market has been shrinking in numerical terms. Who's in there, John,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: among the billionaires?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Well, it's important to know there wasn't necessarily a retail
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: sort of element to this, James. It was more the
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: existing investors of private equity and other investors that have
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: put in. As it's raised funds as a private business
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: until we've got to this stage, one of them was
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Peter Cooper from Cooper Investors, the Melbourne stock picker of
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: some note, and he's on our riches 250. Cooper these days,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: it manages sort of 12, 13, 14 odd billion dollars.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of stocks. It actually has a founder's
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: fund in there as well, where it invests in companies
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: that have got significant holdings by their founders.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: So the people with skin in the game, it could
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: have been called the skin in the game fund.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right. That's right. So yes, invest like a
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: founder does, so to speak. So look, I'm not sure
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: whether this one with Guzman goes actually into that fund,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: but Cooper Investors does have a stake in it. So
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: they are one of the ones that have done very
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: well out of what's happened today so far, at least
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: on paper, right?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he's a guy who's been getting it right.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: In your exercise, when you did this research study on
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: how the richest in the country were faring on the
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: stock market, who else has either been very successful or
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: very lucky in the stocks they picked?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking about on good ledger side, I suppose,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: who have done very well, and it's important to remember,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I've only done it since the start of the year,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: so it's a very interesting exercise as to what's happened
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: since January 1. Now, some of these people have been
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: in it for quite some time. And I think a
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: really good example of that's actually Mesoblast, which is a
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: business that's gone up and down, been a rollercoaster ride.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: The seesaw of Australian stocks.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So it's going up these days.
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  Speaker 2: Right. It's still out there promoting its wares, saying that
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: they've got some good positive news out of the FDA.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I think it is over in the US or the
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: regulatory authorities. So it's looking good again at the moment.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: It turns out that actually Anthony Pratt, who's the cardboard
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: box manufacturing magnate has got a small shareholding in it,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a family shareholding, I think, because
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: his brother-in-law, Alex Weislitz, is in there as well, a
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: big backer of Mesoblast founder and boss Silvio Teschi. So
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: they have offices on the same floor. They go way,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: way back to when they were, I think, doctors back
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: in New York in the 80s. So I think somewhere
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: along the way, Anthony's been convinced to put in. Now,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether he's, I think he's probably still
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: down on his initial investment from seven, eight years ago
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: or whatever, but yeah, it's up about 250 odd percent
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: since January 1. So there's a little bit of good
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: news for Mesoblast shareholders of late.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Ah, yes. It's 254% this year so far, which sounds fabulous,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: except to say, folks, take a look at the history
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: of this company. I think, in a way, Mesoblast is
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: one of those stocks. Tell me if you disagree, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's a trader stock and that it's stock
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: where people write it up and down. And it's become
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: almost like a buy word for a speculative, dare I say,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: fun stock on the local market. I see also then
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you mentioned Alex Weislitz, who is, of course, the brother-in-law
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: or was the brother-in-law of Anthony Pratt, to be precise.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: And he was in there. He's also in Clarity Pharmaceuticals.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: That's up 180%. Gina Reinhart. Now, that's Vulcan Energy Resources.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: There's a good one, up 72%, as if she wasn't
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: doing well enough already on other fronts. But What's that one?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Vulcan and why that's
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: been such a strong stock.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jean has made a number of lithium plates in
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: the last sort of year or so. One of them,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Liontown Resources, there's been others along the way as well.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So her Hancock prospecting has actually got something like between
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: $ 1 to $ 1. 5 billion worth on its balance sheet of equities,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: mining equities. So she has become a significant investor in
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: her own right, as well as the actual mines that
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: it owns, the huge you know, mining assets that it
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: actually has in its own right. She'd become a mining
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: investor too. So yeah, very interesting, sticks to what they
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: believe in. I mean, there's a couple, funnily enough, she's
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: actually got a pharmaceutical cannabis stock, very small holding, but
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  Speaker 2: otherwise it's all mining. It's all lithium or rare earths plays.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So she's clearly is a believer in those sectors of
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: the mining market.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Investing in what you know. But I suppose what's interesting
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: is it's an iron ore tycoon, quite consciously moving into
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: future metals, particularly lithium. One of the stocks she's in, Vulcan, obviously,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: where she's met 72% since January. Anything else that comes
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: to mind?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's in Liontown Resources too. She made a big
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: play to sort of block the, there was a merger, sorry,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: a takeover bid last year. And in fact, Tim Goiter,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: who's the big shareholder in Liontown, is on the other
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: side of the ledger in this. Look at how people
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: on the list are going. So yeah, she's an example
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  Speaker 2: of ones that do stick to what they know mostly.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But I think there's some really interesting examples of billionaires
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  Speaker 2: that were in one sector, but now they're buying into
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: sectors that are completely new. And I wanted to bring
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: up James Packer in that regard, James. Now, we have
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: got on our Riches250 list, we've got 28 people on
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: that list that have made money from technology stocks or
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: technology businesses, startups or the Atlassians of the world and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: so on. And now you need to add James Packer
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: to that list. He could be the 29th technology-based, almost
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: billionaire now. I'll tell you why, because he is an
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: investor in NVIDIA. So he bought into NVIDIA in the
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: last quarter of last year, towards the end of 2023.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: He sold out of Crown. What was he going to
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: do with his money? He's investing in a string of
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: US stocks. And we've written about a little bit over
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the last few months. Check on our margin call section,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: what he's up to. He's been in Meta. He was
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: actually in Paramount for a little while, which was ironic,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: given that he, for a while there, he was a
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: big backer of Channel 10. NVIDIA has become a big
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: player for his. It's $ 900 million worth of shares that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: he has now.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: James Packer almost has a billion in NVIDIA, which is
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: on its way rapidly to becoming the biggest stock ever.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Just got to pass out. There's just two to pass out,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Apple and Microsoft. Interesting. That is a really interesting story.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So these are the winners, folks. We're going to have
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: some schadenfreude with the losers in a moment. But one
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: more winner I want to draw attention to, because I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: know the listeners will know James, because they know Gina Reinhart.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: They might know David Chiu. David Cho, T-E-O-H, was one
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: of the big players in the telco scene here. Fascinating story, TPG.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: The institutional investors absolutely adored him, whatever he did. He
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: got out of TPG eventually. And famously, Shai, they had
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: an awful job even getting him on investors' calls, as
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I recall. And we only had one picture of him
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: for a long time, John, getting into a car. I
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: presume we still have just the one picture of him
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: getting into a car. Yeah.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Well, famously, I think he actually backed over the photographer
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: in that case, would you believe, one day outside his house. No,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: he did. When TPG was merging with Vodafone a few
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: years ago, he had to go to the federal court, apparently.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: front of the court, but as part of that sort
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: of rigmarole that you go through on a big merger
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: like that. So photos are actually taken of him going
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: into court. So we've got photos of him going into court. Yeah, well-dressed.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: He's got his shirt and tie on and so on.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: It's not exactly a staged photo, but it's better than
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: probably running over a photographer in the process. So yes,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: TPG was his big payday. So his wife, Vicky, they
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: founded it when they moved to Australia from Malaysia. 1986,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: he had built it up from Yeah, I remember it
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: was an internet services provider in those early days with
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: the internet and built it up into a telco. And
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: he's still a big shareholder in TPG. But yeah, the
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: stock that I'm really interested in what he's into these
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: days is his most recent play, which is called Tuas
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: or T-U-A-S. It actually owns the sort of emerging telco
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: business over in Singapore. And it's a low cost brand, right?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So it's Simba Telecom. It's actually up about 35% this
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: year on the ASX. And it's been a really, really
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: good stock. Australian listed.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So the Australian listed Singapore sort of active telco startup.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Is that a fair description?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And look, low cost sort of disrupted
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to the established players over that way. And some of
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the institutions that backed him and previously have sort of
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: backed him in this as well. And it's become a
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: pretty big company in its own right. And it's doing
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: quite well. And again, David and his family are pretty
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: low key about it.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Talk to the Howard Hughes about him. The reclusive billionaire.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Everyone loves a reclusive billionaire, except journalists, because they get
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: frustrated with them because they can't talk to them, you see.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And we do like to talk to them and see
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: what they're up to. OK, folks. Now, that was a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: quick round the houses on some of the more interesting
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: share pickers and share selections by the richest people in Australia,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the tycoons, the members of the rich list. that we
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: do every year. And John, of course, is the editor.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: That's why he's across this. We'll take a short break
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and we'll have a look at who's been losing money
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and on what in Among the Tycoons back in a moment.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to the Australian's Money Puzzle podcast.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I'm James Kirby and I'm talking to John Stensholt of
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: The Australian. Now, John, I did enjoy the piece that
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you did last weekend. I'll just tell people if they
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: want to have a look. It's called, to be precise,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: The Best and Worst Performing Stocks of Australia's Billionaires. Now,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the losers. We started talking, actually, about Anthony Pratt and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: how he had a win with this notoriously volatile biotech
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: company called Mesoblast. And we mentioned that his ex-brother-in-law, Alex
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: was also there in the winners with Arity Pharmaceuticals. Now,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, folks, another brother-in-law of Anthony Pratt,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: being Ruffy Jeminder, who is better known for his big
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Pat group, which is basically in that packaging area as well,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: which was originally the Pratt Empire. He went big time
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: into the Reject Shop. And we all know the Reject Shop.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: It's a highly visible brand, just like Guzmán y Gómez.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And one time was a very hot stock, just like
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Guzmany Gomez is today. But tell us what happened to
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Ruffy's adventures in the reject shop.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Well, this year it's down about 42% so far that
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I had on my numbers, James. So yeah, it's almost
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: half his valuation. Now, Ruffy over time with the reject shop,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: his private business, King Group, which has got various subsidiaries,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: had aspirations to actually take over the reject shop or
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: privatize it. Hasn't quite happened yet. Sort of abandoned that
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: for now, which leads me to Ruffy's other stroke of
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: ill fortune so far this year, which is actually Pactfrip itself. P-A-C-T, yeah.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So it's a bit similar. He has tried to privatize
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that as well this year and has got up to
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: about 87 odd percent. But there's a couple of people
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: that have held out on him. Couldn't get to the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: 90 percent threshold. This has unfolded in the last couple
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: of weeks. A couple of people that he bought their
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: company a few years ago in a shares and cash situation.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: They took that. There was an earn-out provision. Ruffy actually
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: sued these guys to stop the earn-out provision over money
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that their business, a coat hanger business, was meant to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: make in the, I think it was, 21 and 22
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: financial years. These guys had shares in PACT as well.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So there's a court case going on with his shareholders
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: at the moment. And they're also refusing to sell their
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: shares into his privatization bid for PACT. So it's all stopped.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: The takeover offer actually expired a week or so ago.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: And so PACT is in a bit of limbo at
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: the moment too. So yeah, Rothy's having a bit of
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: a hard time of it on the ASX.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Bit of a tough year. So he's trying to take
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: it off the market, the bigger operation, PACT. Right, okay.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And I will say, in the interest of full disclosure, folks,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: two of the losers on John's list were in media.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Kerry Stokes in Seven West and Bruce Gordon in Nine Entertainment. However,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: what I find really interesting, John, because a lot of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: our listeners... would be in ETFs and probably wouldn't remember
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the golden age of managed funds, the days of very simple,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: looking back on it, relatively simple, where basically a bunch
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of people were in a room and they picked stocks
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and they put a basket of those out and that
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: was a managed fund and off they went. And many
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: people made enormous amounts of money out of that. One
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: of those people was Karen Eilson, who became a billionaire
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: with timing in the sale of his platinum asset manager,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: which if I recall correctly, was just before the GFC.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: And his wife too, Judith Nielsen, ex-wife, who is a
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: big patron of the arts and people would know all
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: about her and her gallery of Chinese art in Sydney.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: But this year, Kerr Nielsen is down 22% on his investments.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: And tell us about that, John, and what it tells
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: us about the way that whole world of managed funds
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: is going.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You remember they were very hot stocks there for a while. So,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're right, Kerr floated platinum on the ASX.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Glory days, it rose and rose and rose. It was
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a global equities play, right? So that was their.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: That was their specialization. They did bring Australians to the world.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly right. So it was very, very hot stock, you know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: picking stocks, you know, on behalf of their shareholders and
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: so on. Good similar story with, say, Hamish Douglas, for example,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: at Magellan. That was one that, you know, he was
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: a billionaire for a while there. And these days, they're
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: very much, yeah, not in fashion, I suppose. So Perpetual
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: was another one, yeah. I mean, the one that probably
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: still keeps going, you know, which is kind of like this,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is Washington, you know, Sol Patterson's, right? Yeah, Washington-based Sol Patterson. Yeah,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the Milner family. So that's still going pretty well. I mean,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: there's an element of private equity in what they do too.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Platinum's down 22% of this year. It's been
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: down for a few years now. The curve's still got...
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: stock in there now he's not day-to-day management these days
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: in fact he's he's been very critical of who's in
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: there managing the company these days he's still got shares
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: in it so he's not necessarily happy with what's going
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: on he's.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Like alex ferguson sitting up in the stands at manchester
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: united isn't he blasting uh whoever's managing the team these
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: days he's nothing to lose has he well he has
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: something to lose actually but.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Yes well i'm yeah judith also had shares in uh
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: platinum But she sold out. But as you say, she
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: has a significant amount. They both do, actually. They both
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: talk about wealthy people and what they should do with
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: their money. They both have separate, very large charitable foundations.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: There's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in each.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: She's big into art and, fair enough, funding independent media,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: which is great to see. What's his thing?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: He is as well. He backs dozens and dozens of small, medium,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and larger foundations. particularly in Sydney, arts organizations.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Right, I see. Okay, interesting. And so that's interesting in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that the fund management tycoons, well, it would seem like
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: their golden era is over and, of course, greatly challenged folks,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: as you would know, by the ETF houses, exchange-traded funds.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: And hey, John, talking about ETFs, Alex Vientcourt of Basishares,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: they just did a $ 300 million deal where a stake
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: was taken in them a few days ago. Is he
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: on your list? Is he going to pole vault onto
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: your list?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: He's certainly on the radar.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: He's on the radar. Very diplomatic answer.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, he's been one on the radar. That's grown extremely
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: rapidly in the last few years, hasn't it, that business? Yes.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It's definitely my right. I'm not sure whether Alex would
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: be terribly thrilled to know that he might be looked
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: at for something like this, but I mean, you've got
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: to do it, right? Okay.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So I would take one last one in terms of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: people who have not done very well this year. We're
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: talking about stocks. It's interesting. Highly visible stocks that have
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a wonderful time and then go off the boil badly. Again,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: in the context of Guzman Igumez listing today and looking
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: so good just on this day, mark the day, folks.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: 20th of June, 2024. Domino's Pizza was a license to
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: make money at one stage. It was a fantastic stock
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and largely related to a brilliant operator called Don Mage,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: who's still there. Now, what's really interesting is Jack Cowan,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: another sort of larger than life figure in Australian business,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: he had made his money out of Hungry Jack's, right?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And he went in there seems to get on, obviously,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: with Don Mage. He's the chair, is he? And Cowan
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: has a big, big shareholding in Domino's Pizza. And your
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: figures show that he lost a third of his money
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: that he had in Domino's this year. What happened there,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the glory days are a little bit
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: over for that pizza game. You might remember only a
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: few years ago that Mage was promoting it as you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it's not just a food company, it's a tech company
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: as well, right? And this sort of makes me think
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: about what might happen with Guzman as well, right, as
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: the founders and the shareholders wear their, you know, tech-looking
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: hoodies ringing the bell today on the ASX. So, look,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: watch this space in that regard. So, yeah, look, don't
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: get me wrong, Jack's still well ahead of his initial investment.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: He put in about $ 400, 000 in a little pizza chain
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: called Silvio's back in the 80s. And that's sort of,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: you know, There was acquisitions along the way. It went
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: into what's become Domino's today, and he's still got, I
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: think it's roughly a 20%, 25% stake in their business. Yeah,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and you've got to remember with Jack, his primary wealth
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: is based on Hungry Jack's, which he owns privately, right,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and his competitive food's private business, and that's been going
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: extremely well. You know, if you think about economic downturn
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: or cost of living issues, you know, a firm like
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Hungry Jack's, you know, pretty... you know, pretty well regarded
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, what it costs to get
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: a meal there. It goes very well in times like this.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So he's got that and he's got his Domino's private investment,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: which has been off a bit lately.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: A defensive investment in context of cost of living.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So we were talking, folks, about winners and losers and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: some of these stocks we talk about on the show.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of you are very interested. We
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: mentioned media. We mentioned the reject shop, which is interesting because, again,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: thing about thematic top-down investing, we just talked about how
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Hungry Jacks should be fine at the moment. But on
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that basis, the Reject Shop should be fine at the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: moment too. And it's not. So it's interesting. There's always
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: particulars in stocks. This is, again, difficulty we all have
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: as investors. When you select stocks, you have to take
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: more risk. And if you buy a basket of stock
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: in the way of a managed fund or an exchange-traded fund,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you minimize your risk because you're buying that basket of stocks. Now, also,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: we talked about Jack Cowan and his Domino's pizzas group,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: which he's the chair and a key shareholder down 35%.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Some media people, Bruce Gordon off in trouble on nine.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And Karen Nielsen, the fund manager extraordinaire and his platinum
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: asset management group down. The last one, we'll just take
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: a look at John in terms of what went wrong
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: as a big time tycoon losing a bag of money
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: this year is Nick Politis. ego's automotive now he's basically
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the king of car dealers in australia right could you
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: tell the listeners a bit about him and what happened
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to him this year.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: He was the guy behind the city ford business which
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you which was on and still you know has been
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: on the front of what's now the sydney roosters nrl
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: jerseys for 40 years now so it's one of the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: great uh success stories that was his private business he's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: a big big shareholder in what was AP Eagers was
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: now Eagers Automotive, which is the ASX listed, you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: big car dealership. That's down 28% this year. Look, Nick's again,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: has got a huge amount of private investments, private, a
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: big private car dealership holdings. And some of it's actually
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: been sold into Eagers over time, but he's got, yeah,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: a big, bigger shareholder in Eagers as well. Look, I mean,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: the dealerships were going amazingly, you know, a couple of
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: years ago. So they've ramped all the way up. They've
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: come down and they've come down, In the last year.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Is it a post-COVID sort of hangover there going on?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. I mean, look, there's been sort of,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: you know, profit warnings and stuff like that as well
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: across the sector. Not the only one that's having issues.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I think Nick's still doing very, very well for himself.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so his investment in EG is down about 28%
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: year to date.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting, isn't it? If we draw a line,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I said at the start of the show that this
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: year the Australian stock market is we'll have a total return.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: If we ruled off today, that's price and dividends combined, pre-franking,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: of about 12%. Put in franking is probably 13% or 14%,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: which is very nice, thank you. And most people will
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: be very happy with that. But when you look inside
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the market, there's real winners and there's real losers every year.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And this year is no exception. And I suppose the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: message from this, John, is even the billionaires don't know.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: And even billionaires get it very right and very wrong.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, they've just got a bit more money to play with, perhaps, James.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: But I'm sure it still hurts, John. All right, we'll
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: be back in a moment, and we have some great
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: questions coming up. Hello, and welcome back to The Australian's
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Money Puzzle Podcast. I'm James Kirby, Wealth Editor at The Australian,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: talking to John Stensild, Rich 250 Editor at The Australian.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: What time of the year does that come out, John?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Comes out every March, James.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Every March.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yep, then I have to have about a two-month holiday
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: afterwards to recover.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, I know.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And you have a damn good holiday, John. And you're back.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And tell me, but you do other spin-offs too, isn't there?
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: On that, you might just tell people what other lists
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: there are to look out for.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely do look at, yeah, we have a
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: look at who's the best and worst. We have a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: look at all sorts of stories that sort of come
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: from the list as well. But we also do top
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: innovators list, which is very, you know, very, very popular.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And that's more of our technology that does that. That's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: a really, that's probably the next, yeah, the rich list
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: is of tomorrow. There's several other ones we do. Yes, yes.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always interesting. It's always interesting. And I did
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: love the cover this year of the Rick List of
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: that guy. And one of the pictures, he's on a Lamborghini,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a yellow Lamborghini, eating a burger with his beard and
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: his faded haircut and everything. Who's he again?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Adrian Portelli.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: What's his business?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: LMCT Plus, which is basically where you sort of, it
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: does giveaways for your membership and it gives away boats
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: and cars and houses and Big on, you know, those
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: sort of TV shows where houses go under auction, which
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: for a competitor's television channel it is.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: It's like an updated version of coupons. Is that all?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly right. The digital version of it. And he's making
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of money out of it. Hence all those Lamborghinis.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: The digital version. Yeah. Gosh. That's why he was happy
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: to pose with a burger on a Lamborghini. Because it's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: all in his interest.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very good.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: But it really was... Stunning looking cover. Okay, the questions. Melanie,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: on the stock splits, we've had questions about stock splits
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and how they work. Understandably, off the back of the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Nvidia split, which of course is so popular, and we've
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: already mentioned it on the show in the first segment.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So Melanie says, you mentioned about stock splits and a
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: big one recently. Yes, it is Nvidia. With the giant
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: share split happening now, it's 10 for 1. So that
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: means if you have Nvidia shares, look at you, like
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: James Packer and you, the two of you, you both
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: have shares. For every one you've got, suddenly you've got 10.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: It makes no difference to the price, right? If the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: price is $ 100, then you still have $ 100 worth of
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Nvidia shares. It's just that you have 10 now and
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you used to have one. That's how it goes. For
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: what it's worth, folks, Tesla has done two stock splits
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in recent times. They did a five for one. And
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: then more recently, they did a three for one. And
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: in our market, the best known is CSL. They did
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: one in 1997, and then they did another one.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: In 2007, which was three for one.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: That's a while ago. They haven't done one since. Generally,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: it's an issue for a stock that's just going fantastically,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: isn't it, John, basically?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Basically, that share price gets up. I mean, sometimes it's
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: in the hundreds of dollars, right? It just becomes almost
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: unwieldy in a way for it to keep trading in
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that level. They will do a 10 for one, I've seen,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: five for one, three for one. sort of brings it
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: back to some sort of more reasonable number, I suppose,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: but doesn't necessarily change, you know, what your percentage holding
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and what happens. But I think there's been other companies
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: over time too. I remember Network 10, I think, did
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: something like that at one stage too a few years
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: ago before it went off the ASX. I remember one, James,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: a few years ago now, Quilla Resources, this is a
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: little bit different, where they used to issue bonus shares,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: which is a different thing, where every... Every Christmas it
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: felt like it was literally your Christmases all came at
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: once where if you had one Aquila share, you get
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: a bonus share issued. Their sort of thing was to, well,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: we need to increase liquidity in the stock, so we'll
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: issue bonus shares. But then it got taken over and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: its founder, Tony Polley, who already had a very big shareholding,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: his shares hit twice as many shares several times over
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and ended up on the richest 250 where he still
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: sits today because of that. So that's a little bit different.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: to the stock splits, though, but it's an interesting phenomenon
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: at times.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Generally a sign of good times, all these things,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and as is probably patently obvious by now, damn good
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: times at NVIDIA. And that's why they're doing a stock split.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Great times for Tesla. They won't be doing a split
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: anytime soon because it's dropping fast enough. They don't have
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: to worry about it being too big. Now, that doesn't
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: mean it's going to last forever, but it's not doing
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: so well right now. And I know a lot of
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: our listeners have Tesla shares, most commonly held overseas stock
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: in Australia. Certainly until very recently. I think that could
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: change to Nvidia real soon. Okay, our final question, because
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we're running out of time, is from Josh. Do you
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: think the government guarantee of 250,000 per person, per bank,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: will increase? And when was the last increase to the cap?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It's such a good question, Josh.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I'm talking... I may be open to correction, but I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: don't think so. This was introduced in the depths of
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the financial crisis in 2008, when all the world was
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: doing this, started, if you don't mind, by the Irish government,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: who came out with great confidence and said they would
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: guarantee all the Irish currency, which wasn't that hard to
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: do since, in fact, it was the European Central Bank
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: behind it all. And then they were followed by many countries,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: including Australia, where there never had been an explicit guarantee
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: on your money. Introduced at the time, And it remains,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: it's not indexed as far as I know, so it's
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: never been changed. And there's a lot of games being
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: played around indexing, as you would all know, because inflation
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is quite strong at the moment. And if you don't
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: index something, the government basically gets more money. It's played
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: this week in the New South Wales state budget, where
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: they're not going to index the land tax threshold. It's
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: being played by the federal government in the superannuation 3
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: million tax, where they're not indexing that threshold. But that's it.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: That's a debate for another day. John Stencil, busy man,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: we will let you off. Thank you very much for
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: being on the show. It's great to have you.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Always good. Pleasure as always, James.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks, John. And thanks, everybody. Keep the questions rolling. I
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: have had, it's funny, they come in waves. I've had
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: lots of questions, but I have the capacity for lots more.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: So keep them rolling, please. themoneypuzzleattheaustralian.com.au Talk to you soon.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you.