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Transcript

Fourth World Book Club #7 · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to 22 Panels and the Fourth World Book Club. I am joined by Mark Pratt and Sean Harklrod, as always, Mark. Mark is doing all sorts of rock and roll… something or other….
• 0:18
  Mark Pracht: Well, you know, we're gonna talk about Kirby. Kirby!
• 0:21
  Tad Eggleston: And Sean's just given the nice thumbs up, you know, which seems much more Kirby.
• 0:31
  Sean Harklerode: Alright.
• 0:32
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, there you go, there you go.
• 0:36
  Tad Eggleston: I do have to say that, like, I'm gonna call out one image …
• 0:43
  Tad Eggleston: Trying to remember which book it was in, which…
• 0:47
  Tad Eggleston: That's right, it was in the first Jimmy Olsen that we read.
• 0:52
  Tad Eggleston: … of the two Jimmy Olsens this time. Right. The… there's… there's one of the werewolf pictures where
• 1:02
  Tad Eggleston: It took me, like, a solid 2 or 3 minutes to figure out that that was a foot and toenails, rather than one panel where the werewolf had, like, a jetpack.
• 1:15
  Tad Eggleston: Sticking out from him.
• 1:19
  Tad Eggleston: Because there's just these 3 white….
• 1:22
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah.
• 1:23
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, that's page 15.
• 1:25
  Mark Pracht: Page 15.
• 1:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:29
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm looking at it, and I'm going back, I'm like, is there something that I missed about this?
• 1:34
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, so Jimmy Olson 142, page 15, for those playing along.
• 1:39
  Mark Pracht: room.
• 1:39
  Tad Eggleston: For, yeah, if you're playing along at home.
• 1:42
  Mark Pracht: … I, I, I just… I wanna say, … that, …
• 1:52
  Mark Pracht: Before we get deep into this, I have two things to talk about. One, that Sean and I can both talk about is that we were at San Diego Comic-Con this last couple weeks ago.
• 2:03
  Mark Pracht: And we went to the Jack Kirby Fourth World panel, Which was…
• 2:12
  Mark Pracht: God bless all you guys from the Kirby Museum and everything, but it was kind of meandering, and…
• 2:19
  Mark Pracht: a lot of, like, oh, all of Jack's ideas, all of Jack's ideas, and my favorite moment during the whole thing where they were trying to puzzle out what it all meant, was Mark Ivanier going, like, I don't think Jack even knew what it meant.
• 2:34
  Tad Eggleston: So what you're saying is… We should invite them all to join this podcast, because they'd fit right in.
• 2:42
  Mark Pracht: … I… I wouldn't… I….
• 2:48
  Tad Eggleston: meandering, and….
• 2:50
  Mark Pracht: I… I… I think it… I mean, you know, I don't know. ….
• 2:56
  Sean Harklerode: I, I feel like….
• 2:58
  Tad Eggleston: Mark Evanier, if you're listening, you are absolutely invited. I… I would… I would be honored, particularly if we can talk some GRU as well.
• 3:09
  Tad Eggleston: Well… If you bring Sergio along, I'll just be over the moon.
• 3:12
  Mark Pracht: Even Eric did, at the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel, say that he has a Google Alert for any time Jack is mentioned on the internet.
• 3:22
  Mark Pracht: Oh! And so, I would not… Hi, Mark! Hi! I mean, I don't know if he listens to everything, but I would certainly, like.
• 3:31
  Tad Eggleston: Just in case. Hi, Mark!
• 3:33
  Mark Pracht: Hi, Mark. But I wasn't….
• 3:36
  Tad Eggleston: podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you!
• 3:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you could probably reach… like, he has a website, you could… I know he does, I keep meaning to reach out.
• 3:45
  Mark Pracht: I, like, I….
• 3:47
  Tad Eggleston: But it's even more fun when people reach out to me.
• 3:50
  Mark Pracht: That's true. But, ….
• 3:53
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like I'm someone, Mark. Don't take that away from me.
• 3:57
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like, in that vein, I was like, well, he probably knows about my show, then.
• 4:04
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah!
• 4:05
  Mark Pracht: But, anyway, I did not speak to him, I thought maybe I should, but then I didn't, ….
• 4:11
  Tad Eggleston: And I should toss out, just because we forgot to mention it this time, Mark Pratt, the, …
• 4:17
  Tad Eggleston: the playwright behind the, the wonderful, the wonderful House of Ideas about Sta… Stan Lee and Jack Kirby!
• 4:28
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, okay, but, …
• 4:31
  Mark Pracht: In addition to that, which was… I… I enjoyed that panel tremendously, but I just thought that that was, like, the most…
• 4:42
  Mark Pracht: succinct and to-the-point element of anything that was talked about in that panel. I don't know if Sean agrees.
• 4:49
  Sean Harklerode: No, I felt like the title of it was, Jack Kirby's Fourth World, Heroes, Myths, and, Philosophy.
• 4:58
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 4:58
  Mark Pracht: And….
• 4:59
  Sean Harklerode: From that title, You… You expect someone has worked out the philosophy.
• 5:05
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 5:06
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 5:07
  Mark Pracht: I don't think anybody has.
• 5:08
  Sean Harklerode: But no one had. And that's fine, I mean, it was, what, Mark Badger, Bruce Simon….
• 5:13
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 5:14
  Sean Harklerode: Mark? I mean, it was a great, very entertaining, and, you know, lovely panel, but I… from the title of it, I was expecting maybe someone had done a treatise.
• 5:28
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 5:28
  Sean Harklerode: or something.
• 5:29
  Mark Pracht: Like, somebody who'd written a dissertation or something on it. Right, right.
• 5:34
  Sean Harklerode: That's what I was expecting.
• 5:36
  Mark Pracht: graph.
• 5:36
  Sean Harklerode: But, ….
• 5:39
  Mark Pracht: It was not.
• 5:40
  Sean Harklerode: It was not.
• 5:41
  Mark Pracht: It was not. God bless them.
• 5:43
  Mark Pracht: God bless them. All big fans, obviously.
• 5:46
  Sean Harklerode: to that… to that point, and I think with the books we're reading right now,
• 5:54
  Sean Harklerode: not so much the Jimmy Olsens.
• 5:57
  Sean Harklerode: … there is so much floating around in his head. Oh, of course, yeah. …this, this month.
• 6:06
  Sean Harklerode: that, I mean, the influences are everywhere.
• 6:09
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 6:10
  Tad Eggleston: And going in all different directions.
• 6:12
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, you're gonna take out the Jimmy Olsen with the vampires and the werewolves? Well, no, no, I… look, as a Universal Monster kid.
• 6:22
  Sean Harklerode: I'm totally about these. These are my favorite Jimmy Olsens yet, right?
• 6:26
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 6:26
  Sean Harklerode: …
• 6:28
  Sean Harklerode: And I love the inks. I think we talked last time, this is Vinnie Coletta doing some thick inks, and I think they look fabulous.
• 6:37
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 6:37
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 6:38
  Sean Harklerode: But we can talk about the others later.
• 6:40
  Mark Pracht: We can… we can talk about… we can talk… like, the other thing that I wanted to talk about, just briefly, is that I also was in Los Angeles this past weekend.
• 6:50
  Mark Pracht: And I got to the Skirble Cultural Center and saw the Jack Kirby Heroes in Humanity exhibit.
• 6:59
  Mark Pracht: Which was super cool. Not necessarily Fourth World Center, but, lots of original art.
• 7:07
  Mark Pracht: and lots of historical stuff. They had his…
• 7:11
  Mark Pracht: his armor uniform there, which Jeremy Kirby had said had not been out of his garage for 30 years, so….
• 7:18
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow.
• 7:19
  Mark Pracht: It was… it was super cool. I've had…
• 7:23
  Mark Pracht: lots of… lots of things there that I was thinking, huh, I could…
• 7:29
  Mark Pracht: I could write about that, or I could write about that, but then I was like, do I really want to dive back into that? So, … but, super cool. Like, the artwork was amazing. There was one particular double-page spread from Devil Dinosaur that Colleen, my wife.
• 7:46
  Mark Pracht: Was like… she's like, well, it's all art, but that… That's art, you know?
• 7:53
  Mark Pracht: And I couldn't tell you what page it was. It was pretty famous, but it's… it's a big, like, dragon image.
• 8:00
  Mark Pracht: But it's… it was super cool, super fun, it was fun to go to, and anybody who's in LA, or going to be in LA, or in the LA area, you should definitely get out there and see it, because it's there until, like, March of next year.
• 8:13
  Mark Pracht: They said… they talked about it at the Kirby Tribute Panel this year, and said that it might try, you know, tour.
• 8:22
  Mark Pracht: Which… if you get a chance to see it, it's amazing. They have… I think… The entire, …
• 8:32
  Mark Pracht: X-Men number 4, I think it was? Like, the entire book, original art.
• 8:38
  Mark Pracht: On one wall.
• 8:39
  Tad Eggleston: Nice.
• 8:40
  Mark Pracht: It was pretty cool. Anyway.
• 8:42
  Mark Pracht: … with that said, that's my… that's my… that's my… what I did this summer school report.
• 8:52
  Mark Pracht: Starting with the Jimmy Olsens.
• 8:55
  Mark Pracht: I thought this was super cool stuff.
• 8:59
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 9:01
  Tad Eggleston: ….
• 9:02
  Mark Pracht: like Sean said, you know, the Universal Monsters…
• 9:08
  Mark Pracht: Bubbling out of it was awesome.
• 9:11
  Mark Pracht: I do have to say, I don't think… that Jack's style.
• 9:21
  Mark Pracht: lends itself easily to horror imagery.
• 9:25
  Mark Pracht: In my opinion.
• 9:27
  Mark Pracht: I think it's… it's a little too bombastic, you know?
• 9:31
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, I'm fully prepared to be told that I'm an asshole for saying that, but… ….
• 9:37
  Sean Harklerode: They call me Bombastic, Mr. Fantastic.
• 9:42
  Mark Pracht: That's… that's the Fantastic Four, that's not the Fourth World.
• 9:44
  Mark Pracht: but, I mean, that… I've just thrown that out there. Discuss.
• 9:53
  Sean Harklerode: … Well, I think the coloring, you know, does…
• 9:59
  Sean Harklerode: There's some great moody coloring, page 10, where it's all green. Right. I think that does some work for it.
• 10:06
  Sean Harklerode: … But, yeah, it's, it's… It's not exactly what you'd call moody.
• 10:12
  Mark Pracht: Right. It's not like a Bernie Wrightson page, or a.
• 10:16
  Sean Harklerode: in colon.
• 10:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, colon, or… you know, like, one of those guys, I think, could have… You know, made this…
• 10:27
  Mark Pracht: Really, really cool, you know?
• 10:30
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 10:31
  Mark Pracht: It's, … Like, there's always… Kirby always has a sort of odd… …
• 10:41
  Mark Pracht: Just… just outside of normal thing to all of his artwork, which serves him well for, like.
• 10:49
  Mark Pracht: superheroes and gods and things like that. I just don't know with, like…
• 10:57
  Mark Pracht: the vampire, and like, like we were talking about with the, the, the foot.
• 11:04
  Mark Pracht: You know, it's like, oh, alright.
• 11:09
  Mark Pracht: … Although, I say that, I think… I think his, demon run…
• 11:17
  Mark Pracht: Has a lot of really evocative stuff in it.
• 11:22
  Mark Pracht: But that also wasn't… I don't know. I don't know.
• 11:26
  Mark Pracht: maybe I'm just being really critical there, but….
• 11:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, to be fair, that foot would have been much better if, like, it had been defined, and I think it getting muddy had more to do with the coloring than his penciling.
• 11:44
  Mark Pracht: Oh, sure, and I… and I do think, you know, we can say that Vinny put in a lot of really heavy blacks, which he did, but I think he also could have
• 11:54
  Mark Pracht: … define that.
• 11:59
  Mark Pracht: That image a little bit more, you know?
• 12:03
  Mark Pracht: Anyway.
• 12:04
  Mark Pracht: I don't know.
• 12:05
  Sean Harklerode: I think that was, Al Plastino doing a Kirk Swan Wolfman Foot.
• 12:15
  Mark Pracht: Well, yes, this is also a book where you definitely see the Al Palestino doing an impression of Kurt Swan.
• 12:23
  Mark Pracht: redrawing Jack Kirby's Superman heads, and Clark Kent heads, All through this issue.
• 12:31
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Mark Pracht: Like, it's really, really… Strange.
• 12:38
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 12:41
  Mark Pracht: …
• 12:42
  Mark Pracht: But no, like, I don't know. I mean, like, I don't… I don't want to badmouth it, because I actually… story-wise, I really enjoyed this one.
• 12:50
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they were both fun.
• 12:52
  Mark Pracht: It was super fun, it was, …
• 12:56
  Mark Pracht: You know, it was superhero and comic book hokum at its finest.
• 13:02
  Mark Pracht: … Because, like, the resolute… like, the planet with horns I…
• 13:09
  Mark Pracht: That's awesome. It's ridiculous, but it's also awesome. But there was something else that it was, that I thought was, …
• 13:19
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, the… the coffin thing…
• 13:24
  Mark Pracht: were those… were there spaceships or whatever, and I was just like…
• 13:30
  Mark Pracht: That's odd, okay?
• 13:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, like you were saying, Kirby can't really do horror very well, so we had to make it sci-fi.
• 13:38
  Mark Pracht: That's true.
• 13:39
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, it is sci-fi.
• 13:41
  Mark Pracht: It is sci-fi.
• 13:42
  Sean Harklerode: that point. And, you know, Can Kirby do horror, or was Kirby doing sci-fi?
• 13:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 13:52
  Mark Pracht: Like, that's… that's the real… that's the real question. What was his intention here? Was it… Right. Was it, …
• 13:59
  Mark Pracht: Was it to do something that actually was evocative of a horror story, or was it a…
• 14:06
  Mark Pracht: Sort of like, …
• 14:10
  Mark Pracht: I… when I was reading it, the first thing I thought of was, that Star Trek episode, A Piece of the Action.
• 14:17
  Mark Pracht: You know, where you… You have the… the, … the, …
• 14:27
  Mark Pracht: Alien culture that gloms onto any bit of information they can get and creates their whole society around it.
• 14:35
  Mark Pracht: And they get a book about Chicago gangsters, so they think that this is how culture's supposed to be. And I think that that's sort of what he's going for here, is that, you know, they're being beamed these horror movies.
• 14:46
  Mark Pracht: And so they all just… Take that as a… as a…
• 14:52
  Mark Pracht: design for life. Also, but it also is, like.
• 14:55
  Mark Pracht: They also know that this is, like, a bad thing that's being done, so I… like…
• 15:01
  Mark Pracht: I, again, I also… I always feel like…
• 15:08
  Mark Pracht: like, the details are not all that important, let's be honest. It's just… ….
• 15:17
  Tad Eggleston: Wait a minute….
• 15:18
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I just hope in the film version, Vic Tabac plays, … the count.
• 15:32
  Mark Pracht: I've never been arrested in my whole life!
• 15:37
  Mark Pracht: Sorry. That's a joke for the Trekkies out there.
• 15:42
  Mark Pracht: No, I don't think you're.
• 15:43
  Sean Harklerode: And Alice fans.
• 15:44
  Mark Pracht: And Alice.
• 15:45
  Mark Pracht: I don't think you're stupid, I just think your development is arrested. I've never been arrested in my whole life! Anyway.
• 15:52
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 15:56
  Mark Pracht: Let's see….
• 15:57
  Sean Harklerode: the, … The Newsboy Legion.
• 16:02
  Sean Harklerode: Are on their own side quest.
• 16:05
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Sean Harklerode: Which I kept waiting for them to pop up in the same location.
• 16:10
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Sean Harklerode: I was like, how is this? And it didn't.
• 16:14
  Sean Harklerode: It was just a… it was a literal side quest.
• 16:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 16:18
  Mark Pracht: I do. There is, on page, …
• 16:25
  Mark Pracht: Let's see, where am I at here? Issue… In 143 on page 18,
• 16:35
  Mark Pracht: a magnificent Kirby machinery panel.
• 16:41
  Mark Pracht: Where Superman's running….
• 16:44
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 16:45
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's just… yeah, it's… it's incredible. I… I love that stuff.
• 16:49
  Mark Pracht: Love it.
• 16:51
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 16:53
  Sean Harklerode: I… I mean, I love the… the second splash of that issue.
• 16:59
  Sean Harklerode: with Jimmy and, Superman, coming upon the coffins.
• 17:04
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 17:05
  Sean Harklerode: I almost feel like maybe this was inspired by Dark Shadows?
• 17:12
  Sean Harklerode: Like, ….
• 17:13
  Mark Pracht: Don't they… it mentions dark shadows at some point, doesn't it?
• 17:18
  Sean Harklerode: Was it?
• 17:19
  Mark Pracht: Maybe, I don't remember. For some… something…
• 17:22
  Mark Pracht: Something I was reading recently mentioned dark shadows, and I was like, oh, huh.
• 17:28
  Mark Pracht: But….
• 17:34
  Sean Harklerode: But I… and I love, you know, the… the captions and the credits being…
• 17:40
  Sean Harklerode: One of the, one of the,
• 17:42
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Sean Harklerode: Coffins.
• 17:44
  Sean Harklerode: Lids.
• 17:45
  Mark Pracht: Well, and actually, this is a moment where, …
• 17:49
  Mark Pracht: I actually, you know, we've talked about Kirby's dialogue, and is it good, is it bad, is it flawed?
• 17:57
  Mark Pracht: But actually, that one pal… in defiance.
• 17:59
  Tad Eggleston: All of the above.
• 18:00
  Mark Pracht: fears. In defiance of all the fears which have marked my human experience, I can't resist this
• 18:06
  Mark Pracht: Gesture of placing our credits here, on top of the…
• 18:09
  Mark Pracht: the coffin. And I was like, that's pretty cute, Jack. That's… that's a nice one.
• 18:17
  Mark Pracht: Well, this is why I say all of the above. Right. Every time I decide he can't write dialogue, there'll be, like, 6 pages where it's like, oh, you nailed it. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:25
  Tad Eggleston: and… and… Everything in between.
• 18:29
  Mark Pracht: It's… like, I… I mean, like, I tend to think that…
• 18:33
  Mark Pracht: A lot of times, like, it… …
• 18:40
  Mark Pracht: I confess, I read all of these last week before I went to LA, so my brain is a little fuzzy on them, so, …
• 18:47
  Mark Pracht: But, …
• 18:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I… … Once again, I was not, very taken with the backup stories.
• 19:04
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 19:05
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, at least one of the ones I had, and I forget if it was…
• 19:11
  Tad Eggleston: I think it was New Gods had…
• 19:14
  Tad Eggleston: A, a, a reprint of a… Kirby, Simon, Wesley Dodds, Sandman against Thor.
• 19:27
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 19:28
  Tad Eggleston: No, I….
• 19:29
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, ….
• 19:31
  Tad Eggleston: I'm sitting there thinking to myself, this is probably the first time Kirby drew Thor.
• 19:36
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 19:37
  Mark Pracht: I mean…
• 19:40
  Mark Pracht: mine… mine only have the backups that are related to the Fourth World stuff. Right, so… Right, right.
• 19:46
  Sean Harklerode: And, you know.
• 19:47
  Mark Pracht: … So, I… I don't know, I felt…
• 19:54
  Mark Pracht: the backups just feel like they're filling up pages sometimes, so… Yeah. Maybe they… they probably are.
• 20:01
  Mark Pracht: But, ….
• 20:03
  Sean Harklerode: Before we move on from Jimmy Olson, if we're moving there, I… I did a little bit of social commentary, page 17 of issue, if you'll turn your… if you'll turn in your hymnals.
• 20:19
  Sean Harklerode: … Page 17 of issue 143, in the middle panel.
• 20:25
  Sean Harklerode: Where the Legion, the newsboys, are climbing up the ladder.
• 20:32
  Sean Harklerode: And, Scrapper.
• 20:35
  Sean Harklerode: It says, keep your fingers crossed, men, this may be a last… the last hard stretch of road to freedom.
• 20:42
  Sean Harklerode: And Flippa Dippa says, Flippa Dippa's heard that before, and I'm still in the back of the bus.
• 20:48
  Mark Pracht: Right, yeah.
• 20:49
  Sean Harklerode: Which… You know… In 1971 or so.
• 20:55
  Sean Harklerode: You know, in a kid's comic.
• 20:58
  Sean Harklerode: you know, I think that's a pretty….
• 21:00
  Mark Pracht: That's… I mean….
• 21:01
  Sean Harklerode: Pretty big thing to have in there.
• 21:03
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, Kirby, certainly had a very, …
• 21:10
  Mark Pracht: Great sense of that kind of thing, of the social justice sort of stuff.
• 21:15
  Mark Pracht: I think that that is true. I clocked that as well.
• 21:19
  Mark Pracht: I mean… I still don't know about naming that character Flippa Dippa, but… But I get it.
• 21:30
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, no, I, you know, like, once again, like, there is this…
• 21:36
  Mark Pracht: The Jimmy Olsen books are always lumped in with the Fourth World, but… they never really feel like they're…
• 21:43
  Mark Pracht: Adding much to it, you know?
• 21:46
  Mark Pracht: … That said… I don't know. I thought… I actually enjoyed these… these two books greatly.
• 21:58
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, and look, it's by concept, you know.
• 22:01
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, totally.
• 22:03
  Sean Harklerode: Checking the, ….
• 22:06
  Mark Pracht: What if… what if aliens became the universal monsters?
• 22:09
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I'm sorry, I've got… sirens outside. …
• 22:14
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, and projecting the dreams, or the films, Onto the clouds.
• 22:20
  Sean Harklerode: Now, of course, ending by showing them Oklahoma.
• 22:26
  Sean Harklerode: It's kind of out of left field, but I think we now know that Shaq liked Oklahoma.
• 22:32
  Mark Pracht: Jack liked Oklahoma, and now.
• 22:35
  Sean Harklerode: the wind….
• 22:36
  Mark Pracht: Like, why any… why no one has revisited this planet, and they would all be driving around with Surreys with fringe on top?
• 22:43
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 22:45
  Sean Harklerode: And he's gonna wash that Stanley right out of his hair.
• 22:50
  Mark Pracht: Not yet, it's coming.
• 22:51
  Sean Harklerode: It's coming. It's definitely coming.
• 22:56
  Sean Harklerode: end of this podcast.
• 22:58
  Mark Pracht: By the end of this podcast, we're gonna see…
• 23:05
  Mark Pracht: Anyway, we'll talk, we'll.
• 23:07
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, are we gonna see anything? We're audio only, Mark.
• 23:11
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yes.
• 23:12
  Mark Pracht: If you're reading along with us.
• 23:14
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 23:15
  Mark Pracht: You'll see.
• 23:17
  Mark Pracht: So, okay, … Forever, people.
• 23:23
  Mark Pracht: Should we move on?
• 23:25
  Tad Eggleston: True.
• 23:26
  Sean Harklerode: Sure.
• 23:29
  Mark Pracht: See it. Believe it. The Omega Effect.
• 23:33
  Mark Pracht: Dun dun dun!
• 23:35
  Mark Pracht: …
• 23:37
  Mark Pracht: And this was… this apparently was the issue with the backup with Sandy and Sandman and the villain from Valhalla, so…
• 23:44
  Mark Pracht: … …
• 23:51
  Mark Pracht: What can I say? Really, the, …
• 23:57
  Mark Pracht: Jesus, what was the name of the… like, I've… it's been so long, I've even forgotten the name of that unified being that they all turned into.
• 24:05
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 24:06
  Tad Eggleston: It wasn't Voltron? Oh, wait, no, that's a different.
• 24:09
  Mark Pracht: It was, …
• 24:15
  Mark Pracht: Through the power of the Mother Box, we all become… what was the name of that character? Oh my god, I can't believe I've forgotten this.
• 24:21
  Mark Pracht: But it's been, like, 4 or 5 issues.
• 24:25
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. Like, that seems That seems like that's a concept that just got… dumped.
• 24:30
  Mark Pracht: you know, I'm sure it comes back.
• 24:31
  Sean Harklerode: Affinity Man!
• 24:32
  Mark Pracht: Infinity Man, that's right.
• 24:34
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 24:35
  Tad Eggleston: I can't… I don't understand how I couldn't remember that.
• 24:40
  Mark Pracht: … I think, …
• 24:47
  Mark Pracht: I always enjoy a Glorious Godfrey story.
• 24:51
  Mark Pracht: … He reminds me of someone.
• 24:56
  Tad Eggleston: You're either frozen… oh, there you are.
• 25:00
  Mark Pracht: … I don't know, I don't know, he reminds me of somebody that we know and…
• 25:07
  Mark Pracht: In life now, but….
• 25:10
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, yeah.
• 25:11
  Mark Pracht: Shock of red hair, and his… … I mean…
• 25:21
  Mark Pracht: You know, it is the first time we get to see… … The omega Effect
• 25:29
  Mark Pracht: Which, you know, has become… It's, like, part and parcel with Darkseid.
• 25:35
  Mark Pracht: …
• 25:40
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, I mean…
• 25:44
  Mark Pracht: I don't… I don't know. I don't have… I don't have a whole lot to say about this issue. I mean, it just….
• 25:49
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I, I, I, what I found interesting about this issue, you know, obviously, DeSaud.
• 26:00
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. And, … Apocaly- Dark Side.
• 26:05
  Mark Pracht: Darcy.
• 26:05
  Sean Harklerode: Their dynamic is interesting to me in this.
• 26:08
  Mark Pracht: 100%, yeah. Like, it's always been interesting, you know, like, that, that, …
• 26:18
  Mark Pracht: Darkseid is evil.
• 26:22
  Mark Pracht: But he's not wanton or crazy.
• 26:25
  Sean Harklerode: Cruel.
• 26:26
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, there's no cruelty to it. It's just, you will do what I… what I tell you. It's almost like…
• 26:39
  Mark Pracht: It almost reminds me of when Doctor Doom is written really well.
• 26:44
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 26:45
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 26:46
  Mark Pracht: like… that…
• 26:53
  Mark Pracht: even though I think Doom… I don't think Doom is anywhere near as evil as Darkseid.
• 27:00
  Mark Pracht: … Because Doom actually does care for his people, you know?
• 27:07
  Mark Pracht: They're there to serve his needs, but… He will also not…
• 27:13
  Mark Pracht: Like, if someone is harmed in his… Kingdom.
• 27:17
  Mark Pracht: he will hunt them down and punish them. You know, he will punish the person who does it. Whereas Darkseid doesn't really seem to care
• 27:25
  Mark Pracht: But at the same time, like, there… yeah, like, the idea of cruelty seems almost abhorrent to him, you know?
• 27:31
  Sean Harklerode: I regret to say this, DeSaud, but I don't have the stomach for your kind of pursuits.
• 27:37
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 27:39
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 27:41
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I found that interesting, and then leaving Seraphin alone.
• 27:45
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 27:46
  Sean Harklerode: You know, after the… what… is it tracer beams? What do they call them?
• 27:51
  Mark Pracht: The, the….
• 27:52
  Sean Harklerode: Finder.
• 27:52
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, but there… that's the Omega effect.
• 27:56
  Sean Harklerode: the Omega effect, but, you know, it's light beams that can, you know.
• 28:01
  Sean Harklerode: Zoom all around like a heat-seeking missile.
• 28:04
  Mark Pracht: Right, right.
• 28:04
  Sean Harklerode: … Which, presumably, they move at the speed of light, so…
• 28:10
  Sean Harklerode: But still, it's a comic book.
• 28:12
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 28:13
  Sean Harklerode: So you have to see the… See the trace.
• 28:17
  Mark Pracht: Right. I mean, and… I did, I did love when the, the…
• 28:24
  Mark Pracht: the Wonder Bike, or whatever it is, like, turned into the battle station thing at the end.
• 28:30
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 28:31
  Sean Harklerode: It kept reconfiguring itself into whatever was needed.
• 28:34
  Mark Pracht: And I was like, that's pretty cool.
• 28:37
  Mark Pracht: …
• 28:42
  Mark Pracht: But, you know, it also seems like, Seraphin has become… Sort of the, … …
• 28:54
  Mark Pracht: Jonah isn't the word, but the… the, …
• 29:00
  Mark Pracht: kind of the martyr. Like, he's always the one who…
• 29:04
  Mark Pracht: bears the brunt of loss the most. You know, he's always the last one left.
• 29:10
  Mark Pracht: He's always the one that's forced into a position where he feels like he has to help everybody else and doesn't know how.
• 29:16
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 29:18
  Mark Pracht: Which is… is cute, especially when he's, like, basically dressed like…
• 29:24
  Mark Pracht: Kind of like a Clint Eastwood cowboy character, you know?
• 29:27
  Sean Harklerode: Well, the two-gun cape.
• 29:28
  Mark Pracht: Right? Yeah, exactly, yeah.
• 29:32
  Mark Pracht: And it seems like, you know, the way he looks would seem to indicate that he would be a little more, competent?
• 29:39
  Mark Pracht: And then a lot of times he doesn't seem that confident, but… I don't know.
• 29:48
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I thought it was a little confusing to have the backup story also focus on Seraphin.
• 29:53
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 29:55
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 29:55
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I mean, it… like, this… this… like…
• 30:02
  Mark Pracht: You know, essentially, it's how they left New Genesis.
• 30:07
  Mark Pracht: to come to Earth.
• 30:13
  Mark Pracht: I don't know.
• 30:15
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 30:16
  Mark Pracht: Seraphim meets Big Bear.
• 30:23
  Tad Eggleston: Isn't it, like, after we've seen Big Bear die?
• 30:27
  Tad Eggleston: Which also makes it a little weird.
• 30:30
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, but no, this is a tale… this is another incident in the lives, so this….
• 30:36
  Tad Eggleston: No, I'm aware, but it's still, like….
• 30:38
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, it's weird.
• 30:40
  Mark Pracht: It's….
• 30:40
  Tad Eggleston: Earlier this issue….
• 30:44
  Mark Pracht: Well, and the other thing is, I mean, like, … well, I'm not gonna spoil it.
• 30:48
  Mark Pracht: But it is kind of spoiled by the… Yeah, Mark, Mark.
• 30:52
  Tad Eggleston: These books came out 50 years ago.
• 30:56
  Mark Pracht: But you've never read them, and we're reading them in order, so….
• 30:58
  Sean Harklerode: Or when.
• 30:59
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, okay.
• 31:00
  Sean Harklerode: comes out of the bathroom and sees Bruce Willis standing there.
• 31:06
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 31:07
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like, the title of… in our next issue, I'll Find You in Yesterday.
• 31:15
  Mark Pracht: That's a pretty big hint as to what the omega effect actually does.
• 31:19
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 31:19
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, you know.
• 31:22
  Sean Harklerode: Like weeping angels.
• 31:24
  Mark Pracht: Exactly.
• 31:26
  Mark Pracht: Exactly.
• 31:28
  Mark Pracht: Don't blink.
• 31:29
  Mark Pracht: Whatever you do, don't blink.
• 31:32
  Mark Pracht: I am sorry. I am so, so sorry. Anyway, ….
• 31:38
  Sean Harklerode: But, ….
• 31:40
  Mark Pracht: What?
• 31:42
  Mark Pracht: … Yeah, I don't know, I mean, I feel like… You know, we have… Does…
• 31:52
  Mark Pracht: Oh yeah, Sunny Sumo gets sent back, too.
• 31:55
  Sean Harklerode: Yep.
• 32:00
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I feel like… Do you, …
• 32:04
  Mark Pracht: Here… okay. The last two issues of this book, I really liked.
• 32:09
  Mark Pracht: I like the idea of Happy Land.
• 32:12
  Mark Pracht: And, you know, I liked… the subtle… critique of the Disney empire.
• 32:22
  Mark Pracht: And as somebody who was just in Disneyland, …
• 32:26
  Mark Pracht: Like, there's, you know, there's things there that you can, like, poke at.
• 32:33
  Mark Pracht: …
• 32:37
  Mark Pracht: I thought those two issues were really great. Those were the two best issues at Forever People that we've read so far.
• 32:43
  Mark Pracht: And… This one felt… it really does kind of feel like it's…
• 32:55
  Mark Pracht: batting cleanup.
• 32:57
  Mark Pracht: If that makes any sense. Like, it's just, like, there to…
• 33:01
  Mark Pracht: Okay, we gotta move these pieces around the table to where I need them to be, or whatever.
• 33:07
  Mark Pracht: Or just coming up with stuff, right?
• 33:10
  Mark Pracht: Because, like, I'm with you, Sean. The best scene in this book is the conversation between, Darkseid and DeSaad.
• 33:17
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 33:18
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, that's the whole point of the book.
• 33:20
  Mark Pracht: It feels like one of the things, it's like, you know, we were talking about the infinity man. Where's the infinity man? Where… where did he go? What's the deal with that? …
• 33:32
  Mark Pracht: it almost feels like Sunny Sumo has become…
• 33:37
  Mark Pracht: the replacement for the Infinity Man, you know? Except now we can actually talk to the kids, right?
• 33:42
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 33:43
  Mark Pracht: And, …
• 33:50
  Mark Pracht: And I'm not… Look… Everything's a product of its time.
• 33:56
  Mark Pracht: blah blah blah. There is an element of Sunny Sumo that every time I read it, I'm like, wow, this is kind of a…
• 34:02
  Mark Pracht: Stereotype writ large, you know?
• 34:07
  Mark Pracht: It's the magic Asian, you know? It's like, oh…
• 34:10
  Mark Pracht: I have a deep understanding of everything. I know everything. I'm also stronger than everyone. I'm also, you know, it's like…
• 34:17
  Mark Pracht: Okay.
• 34:18
  Mark Pracht: Why didn't we just change the name of the book to Sunny Sumo and just see The Adventures of Sunny Sumo? Because that might actually be more interesting.
• 34:25
  Sean Harklerode: But….
• 34:26
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. Maybe I'm just being too hard on it.
• 34:31
  Tad Eggleston: That's supposed to be my job.
• 34:34
  Mark Pracht: It's…
• 34:39
  Mark Pracht: My job is to tell the truth.
• 34:42
  Tad Eggleston: That's right.
• 34:43
  Mark Pracht: And not give spoilers.
• 34:45
  Sean Harklerode: All I've got is a red guitar.
• 34:50
  Tad Eggleston: It says… This machine kills fascists?
• 34:55
  Sean Harklerode: Three chords, and the truth.
• 34:57
  Mark Pracht: truth.
• 35:00
  Mark Pracht: Okay, alright, so… Alright.
• 35:05
  Mark Pracht: See the super cycle defend itself against Savage human attack.
• 35:11
  Mark Pracht: Oh, I can't wait for that issue. Like, yeah, like, whatever this is setting up sounds like it's gonna be fun, but this, this episode, this issue is a lot of setup.
• 35:20
  Sean Harklerode: Yep.
• 35:21
  Mark Pracht: Alright.
• 35:22
  Mark Pracht: So where do we go? Like, we should go to New Gods next.
• 35:24
  Sean Harklerode: I think New Gods… I mean, I really think this New Gods is… Kinda next level?
• 35:32
  Sean Harklerode: For me, it looks great.
• 35:36
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 35:37
  Mark Pracht: Art is… Awesome.
• 35:41
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 35:41
  Mark Pracht: on every level.
• 35:44
  Mark Pracht: … Somebody was talking about this, … I will say…
• 35:51
  Mark Pracht: This double-page spread of the… the, … the behemoth Taken apart the boat.
• 35:59
  Mark Pracht: Right at the beginning.
• 36:01
  Mark Pracht: Paige, ….
• 36:02
  Sean Harklerode: Glory Boat.
• 36:03
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, the glory boat.
• 36:04
  Sean Harklerode: Which is, again… again, we talked about all the things going around in… the wordplay going around in Jack's head.
• 36:13
  Mark Pracht: Right. Glory boating.
• 36:15
  Sean Harklerode: you know.
• 36:16
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 36:16
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, he's putting… he puts these concepts together in a very, very interesting way.
• 36:22
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 36:23
  Sean Harklerode: Sometimes a little corny, but it's…
• 36:26
  Sean Harklerode: he… he… it's very clever, and… and I find it… I find it very, effective.
• 36:32
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I think… I think it is effective. I was just saying that…
• 36:36
  Mark Pracht: as much as people were talking, like, we… I may have been… I think it was at the… at the philosophy panel?
• 36:43
  Mark Pracht: They were talking about that particular two-page spread, and how amazing it was, and the image… and yeah, it does have a feeling of power.
• 36:50
  Mark Pracht: But….
• 36:51
  Sean Harklerode: My head was just lost in it.
• 36:55
  Mark Pracht: What?
• 36:56
  Sean Harklerode: Mark Badger was just lost.
• 36:57
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, like, it's… it… it is… like…
• 37:04
  Mark Pracht: it is… imagery-wise, it's great. I don't know that I would have figured out what the hell was going on in this.
• 37:13
  Mark Pracht: if I just looked at it.
• 37:16
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 37:18
  Mark Pracht: Like, you sort of see the beast, But you don't?
• 37:23
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 37:23
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 37:25
  Mark Pracht: …
• 37:28
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, it… that… it just… for the first time ever, I found myself thinking, that… Jack, that might have been a little too busy.
• 37:36
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 37:38
  Mark Pracht: That said, every other page in this book is… Magnificent.
• 37:44
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I mean, there's so much Kirby crackle.
• 37:47
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 37:48
  Sean Harklerode: everywhere.
• 37:49
  Sean Harklerode: … I just think it looks amazing, and…
• 37:53
  Sean Harklerode: That the second splash, page 5.
• 37:57
  Mark Pracht: I was just looking.
• 37:58
  Sean Harklerode: The rhin's coming out of the water.
• 38:00
  Mark Pracht: It's… it's almost….
• 38:03
  Sean Harklerode: But….
• 38:03
  Mark Pracht: It's almost biblical.
• 38:05
  Sean Harklerode: Yes, I mean, it reminds, it reminds me of, you know, a Kubert, Bible.
• 38:11
  Mark Pracht: Yay.
• 38:13
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, it's almost like, I almost think of, like, you know, the fishermen, and, you know… …
• 38:20
  Mark Pracht: I… it's….
• 38:21
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah?
• 38:22
  Mark Pracht: Incredible.
• 38:23
  Sean Harklerode: And, I mean, and we're… and we have a parable, again, this is a very socially conscious, issue.
• 38:29
  Sean Harklerode: … which I find effective,
• 38:34
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 38:35
  Sean Harklerode: I, I also… But… light ray?
• 38:40
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 38:41
  Sean Harklerode: … there's a moment… where Orion…
• 38:48
  Sean Harklerode: Says something, he's like, you, you, you are like a planner.
• 38:53
  Sean Harklerode: Or something. Which, to me, signifies that light ray is basically Odysseus.
• 39:01
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 39:02
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I can see that.
• 39:03
  Sean Harklerode: Ian… in Jack's pantheon.
• 39:07
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 39:08
  Mark Pracht: Well, and the thing, you know, the thing about it is, is, like, I actually…
• 39:18
  Mark Pracht: if…
• 39:26
  Mark Pracht: I… Okay, I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm confused.
• 39:31
  Mark Pracht: I thought… That the glory boat, right?
• 39:36
  Mark Pracht: Was this thing that erupts out of the wooden ship.
• 39:41
  Mark Pracht: on page 25.
• 39:45
  Mark Pracht: Which, again, incredibly biblical and religious imagery. And, quite honestly, having gone to that, that…
• 39:57
  Mark Pracht: that Kirby exhibit.
• 39:59
  Sean Harklerode: Like…
• 40:01
  Mark Pracht: Kirby's religion is clearly a big thing to him, right? If… even if just that he sees it as…
• 40:08
  Mark Pracht: A basis of storytelling, right?
• 40:12
  Mark Pracht: But I mean, like, this image of…
• 40:16
  Mark Pracht: you have… you have Light Ray on the top of the thing, like, with his arms out, like, he's beseeching the heavens for…
• 40:24
  Mark Pracht: … For… aid?
• 40:28
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 40:28
  Mark Pracht: The boy laid over the top of it like, you know, a martyr.
• 40:34
  Mark Pracht: Which is clearly the way that that character is set up, you know?
• 40:38
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 40:39
  Mark Pracht: And, Orion, you know, on the side, as the… …
• 40:50
  Mark Pracht: you know, the anti-hero, the one who maybe isn't quite into… isn't quite into the holiness of it, you know what I'm saying?
• 41:02
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 41:02
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 41:03
  Mark Pracht: I just… like, this page, like… like, every page as you go by…
• 41:11
  Mark Pracht: And, again, we've talked about this, you know, there are a lot of splash pages in this book.
• 41:17
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 41:18
  Mark Pracht: … And… for almost a… well, maybe not as many as I thought, but…
• 41:27
  Mark Pracht: 4… now, let's see, one… there's the double-page spread.
• 41:32
  Mark Pracht: 3…
• 41:41
  Mark Pracht: 4, 5 out of… 26 pages. So, I mean… That's almost….
• 41:53
  Tad Eggleston: That's funny.
• 41:53
  Mark Pracht: What's that?
• 41:54
  Tad Eggleston: 20% of the book, yeah.
• 41:56
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and… but for the first time, for the very first time, I never once clocked
• 42:04
  Mark Pracht: I think that maybe Jack was trying to, like, I can do one image and get a page out of it.
• 42:10
  Mark Pracht: to move faster. Like, I think every one of these splash pages in this book have impact, and are meant to have impact in the way that they do.
• 42:23
  Mark Pracht: …
• 42:30
  Mark Pracht: I don't know.
• 42:30
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I mean, I really dig the storyline of the father and the son.
• 42:38
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 42:39
  Sean Harklerode: … the son, or the father, talking about Normandy.
• 42:45
  Sean Harklerode: And, you know, that final image You know, after… the… Father freezes up.
• 42:55
  Sean Harklerode: And he's left on that boat.
• 42:57
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 42:58
  Sean Harklerode: Like, you know, the… … Like, Jonah.
• 43:03
  Mark Pracht: Right. Or….
• 43:04
  Sean Harklerode: Or, like, the, … Ancient Mariner, you know.
• 43:09
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 43:09
  Sean Harklerode: Only I am escaped alone to tell thee.
• 43:12
  Sean Harklerode: Well, that's… that's from Job, actually, but, … or Moby Dick, but…
• 43:21
  Sean Harklerode: I just think that's a powerful image, and a powerful story, you know, showing that the youth
• 43:28
  Sean Harklerode: … Are standing up for what they believe in, and…
• 43:33
  Sean Harklerode: I think coming from Jack, I think that's a…
• 43:39
  Sean Harklerode: That's a heck of a… of a storyline.
• 43:42
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, this whole thing where, … Jafar grabs the son, And literally steals his face.
• 43:53
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 43:54
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, that is…
• 43:58
  Mark Pracht: the… what that invokes is, like, I… when that happened, I thought about… I thought about Joseph Campbell, I thought, you know, the hero of a thousand faces, that, like.
• 44:07
  Tad Eggleston: ….
• 44:09
  Mark Pracht: heroism has no face, you know? Also, …
• 44:16
  Mark Pracht: It also created another faceless hearer, but this one she'll go to the source as one of us. And I thought about the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, I thought about, you know, like…
• 44:28
  Mark Pracht: This… this is… this is a pivotal, pivotal, and really… really top notch.
• 44:36
  Mark Pracht: bit of Jack Kirby work.
• 44:39
  Mark Pracht: Like, it is… Magnificent. Beginning to end.
• 44:45
  Mark Pracht: I love, I love the design of the Deep Six.
• 44:49
  Mark Pracht: I love…
• 44:54
  Mark Pracht: I, I, you know….
• 44:57
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, no, I… there's a… again, the artwork on this, the storyline, I think this is, you know.
• 45:02
  Sean Harklerode: Probably my favorite, New Gods.
• 45:04
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 45:05
  Mark Pracht: issues.
• 45:06
  Sean Harklerode: R.
• 45:07
  Sean Harklerode: …
• 45:08
  Sean Harklerode: And oddly enough, just the other day, there was a Facebook post in a Kirby group, and it was actually by Arlen Schumer, about this final, panel.
• 45:24
  Mark Pracht: Right. Arguing that,
• 45:27
  Sean Harklerode: that this is proof that Kirby needed an editor.
• 45:30
  Sean Harklerode: Which… I… You know, was complaining about the… The punctuation, the exclamation marks.
• 45:41
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Sean Harklerode: Or points.
• 45:43
  Sean Harklerode: And kind of arguing that it was making the points over and over.
• 45:49
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 45:49
  Sean Harklerode: But I don't know, I feel it works for me.
• 45:53
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I can say, I do think that Jack, never met a point that he couldn't reiterate four times.
• 46:02
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 46:03
  Mark Pracht: Like, especially when he's coming.
• 46:05
  Tad Eggleston: Doesn't want you to miss it.
• 46:06
  Sean Harklerode: Huh, right.
• 46:07
  Mark Pracht: Well, of course not, but, also, Here's an interesting thing.
• 46:13
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you know kids today.
• 46:15
  Mark Pracht: I also love, on page 23, the first panel, where the father
• 46:22
  Mark Pracht: You know, everything's burning, and Orion's trying to get to him, and he's then, we die, we die. Did Richard flinch? Did Richard run? No, I did, I did. I turned away. The flames are coming up, and…
• 46:36
  Mark Pracht: And… …
• 46:43
  Mark Pracht: and Light Ray… Pulls him away.
• 46:49
  Mark Pracht: And then, he's like, it'll be over before the flames reach him, which… He's…
• 46:58
  Mark Pracht: it's just… I don't know. I also love that when they take Richard, And they put him on…
• 47:07
  Mark Pracht: I always thought of this as the glory boat. Maybe I'm wrong.
• 47:12
  Sean Harklerode: I don't know.
• 47:13
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 47:14
  Sean Harklerode: And unfortunately, and when I was talking at the beginning.
• 47:17
  Sean Harklerode: I was thinking Glory Boat was like a… saying, but that's showboat.
• 47:23
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:23
  Sean Harklerode: So, I was….
• 47:24
  Mark Pracht: But I… I think… I think this is… I mean, they're taking Richard to the source, and as soon as they lay him upon that thing, his face returns.
• 47:33
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 47:34
  Mark Pracht: I, I… like, the, the, the, the, like, we talk about the philosophy of it, right? And….
• 47:42
  Sean Harklerode: Well, this would be a great… issue.
• 47:46
  Mark Pracht: This would be a great book to talk about, if you're gonna talk about the philosophy of what's going on in this… in the Fourth World. And that's… that is, … and I think that….
• 47:57
  Sean Harklerode: Because it's Valhalla.
• 47:58
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. Well, I mean, but, you know, and forgive me, Kirbyites, forgive me, but I think sometimes…
• 48:04
  Mark Pracht: the vehement Kirbyites get so wrapped up in trying to prove that Jack was prescient about all of this stuff, right? Or that he saw the future, or that he, you know, had some magical connection to the spirit of the universe or something. They lose the basic
• 48:25
  Mark Pracht: epic storytelling, and philosophy that is there, right? Because, like.
• 48:32
  Mark Pracht: like you say, like, if I was… if we… if we had been on that panel.
• 48:39
  Mark Pracht: I would be like, let's just talk about the glory boat.
• 48:42
  Mark Pracht: Because I think almost everything that Jack wants to say is in this book on some level.
• 48:48
  Mark Pracht: And it's done in exciting ways. The art is beautiful, the writing is actually… it's maybe a little overwritten, but everything was back then.
• 48:58
  Mark Pracht: … But, god damn, like….
• 49:02
  Sean Harklerode: Panel submission for 2026.
• 49:05
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 49:06
  Sean Harklerode: Jack Kirby's Glory Boat.
• 49:08
  Mark Pracht: Jack Kirby's… that… yeah, the philosophy of Jack Kirby's Glory Boat. Suck at Kirby Museum. No, I'm kidding.
• 49:19
  Sean Harklerode: We'd have to find… by Mark Pratt.
• 49:21
  Mark Pracht: We'd have to find… we'd have to find a rabbi who could come and do it with us, because I think that that would be the topper, right? Anyway, like…
• 49:31
  Mark Pracht: 100% what you said, Sean.
• 49:36
  Mark Pracht: This is the best issue of New Gods so far. It is magnificent.
• 49:44
  Mark Pracht: End of story.
• 49:46
  Mark Pracht: You talk amongst yourselves.
• 49:48
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 49:50
  Sean Harklerode: tab.
• 49:52
  Tad Eggleston: I loved it, I had fun with it.
• 49:55
  Tad Eggleston: I'm… Fading fast, so I'm enjoying listening to you.
• 50:03
  Sean Harklerode: Well, should we move on to the piece de resistance?
• 50:08
  Tad Eggleston: I think so.
• 50:10
  Mark Pracht: to them.
• 50:13
  Mark Pracht: the… the… The, the, the greatest…
• 50:21
  Mark Pracht: Piece of character assassination in comic book history.
• 50:28
  Sean Harklerode: Mr. Miracle number 6, everyone.
• 50:30
  Mark Pracht: Mr. Miracle number 6, the introduction.
• 50:33
  Mark Pracht: of your friend, The Funky Flash Man.
• 50:43
  Mark Pracht: to begin. ….
• 50:46
  Sean Harklerode: I mean….
• 50:47
  Mark Pracht: I think, you know, it really does, like, I hate to jump into it, but I mean, like, it really does behoove the discussion of…
• 50:59
  Mark Pracht: the things people say about Stan.
• 51:03
  Mark Pracht: And the things people say about Jack, And… The certainty of these things?
• 51:13
  Mark Pracht: I think… The most interesting thing about this issue.
• 51:20
  Mark Pracht: is actually House Roy.
• 51:25
  Mark Pracht: Because Roy Thomas has said, when this book came out, He'd never met Jack.
• 51:31
  Mark Pracht: He'd never spoken to Jack.
• 51:34
  Mark Pracht: He'd never exchanged anything, you know, like letters or anything with Jack. Jack didn't know him.
• 51:39
  Mark Pracht: Jack had… No basis.
• 51:44
  Mark Pracht: to be…
• 51:48
  Mark Pracht: That cruel.
• 51:52
  Mark Pracht: to Roy Thomas.
• 51:54
  Mark Pracht: Certainly, this is at, the depths of his Conflict with Marvel.
• 52:01
  Mark Pracht: And obviously, Stan was, and is, the face of Marvel Comics.
• 52:06
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 52:08
  Sean Harklerode: And we get both phases.
• 52:10
  Mark Pracht: And we get both.
• 52:11
  Sean Harklerode: in this issue.
• 52:13
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 52:16
  Mark Pracht: I… I… I… some… like, it's just a lot of it, like… It's hard for me…
• 52:24
  Mark Pracht: Dear listeners, I… you know, we talked about… I had wrote… I wrote a play about Stan and Jack, and the creation of Marvel.
• 52:31
  Mark Pracht: I read a lot about the Stan and Jack and the creation of Marvel.
• 52:37
  Mark Pracht: And I think there are many things in this book
• 52:41
  Mark Pracht: That do not sit well with me.
• 52:44
  Mark Pracht: … I think that it is… I think Sean said it once.
• 52:49
  Mark Pracht: This book is straight-up character assassination.
• 52:53
  Mark Pracht: And… It is… It's hard for me to read it.
• 53:01
  Mark Pracht: It's Anne.
• 53:01
  Sean Harklerode: Cool.
• 53:02
  Mark Pracht: It's cruel.
• 53:04
  Mark Pracht: It is very cruel.
• 53:06
  Mark Pracht: And, … Certainly, I think Jack had all sorts of reasons to be angry.
• 53:15
  Mark Pracht: …
• 53:17
  Mark Pracht: And I promise I won't just keep talking, but it really is hard for me to read this book. I think that…
• 53:27
  Mark Pracht: no matter what Stan did, and I certainly think, the origins of Marvel Comics as a publication
• 53:37
  Mark Pracht: Is full of inaccuracies, and…
• 53:46
  Mark Pracht: And, misdirection by inference, right?
• 53:50
  Mark Pracht: But… he never… never says anything bad about Jack.
• 53:59
  Mark Pracht: Ever.
• 54:01
  Mark Pracht: and…
• 54:07
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I, I don't know.
• 54:08
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 54:09
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, does the bust of the Colonel represent Goodman?
• 54:14
  Mark Pracht: I… I have….
• 54:15
  Sean Harklerode: That's for the money.
• 54:15
  Mark Pracht: Rise.
• 54:16
  Sean Harklerode: from?
• 54:17
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 54:18
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 54:18
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, it also… like, the… the implication that it's a slave plantation also seems… really ugly.
• 54:30
  Mark Pracht: like, really ugly, right? Yeah.
• 54:33
  Sean Harklerode: It's so decrepit.
• 54:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 54:37
  Sean Harklerode: … I mean… Yeah, and, and Funky's… you know, loquaciousness, shall we say.
• 54:50
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, it is…
• 54:51
  Sean Harklerode: there's no way to deny, and I know some people deny, but there's no denying what this is. …
• 54:59
  Sean Harklerode: But, I mean, it's very interesting, you know, and people have done a couple of things with Funky over the years.
• 55:08
  Sean Harklerode: … But… Yeah.
• 55:12
  Sean Harklerode: I also found, you know, the…
• 55:17
  Sean Harklerode: a big Bardas fight with Lashina.
• 55:21
  Sean Harklerode: Yes. Mad Harriet, I enjoyed that. Now, Lashina…
• 55:28
  Sean Harklerode: Now, there is, … there's a costume.
• 55:34
  Mark Pracht: … I… I… I do have to say, there are times when I think about… I think about what
• 55:44
  Mark Pracht: like, these characters in particular, and I do wonder about, … … Jack's Kinks.
• 55:56
  Mark Pracht: I mean….
• 55:57
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I mean, I will say last month we got into that, and it was a little fur afield for me, but this one, there's no… there's no getting around what… what this is.
• 56:11
  Sean Harklerode: really referencing. So maybe Jack just had a lot to work out, this issue.
• 56:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like….
• 56:18
  Sean Harklerode: Couple of different levels.
• 56:21
  Mark Pracht: I mean, yeah, it is, …
• 56:30
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it…
• 56:37
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 56:38
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, ….
• 56:39
  Mark Pracht: I mean.
• 56:40
  Sean Harklerode: It's… ladies and gentlemen, this is a very odd moment. Mark Pratt seems to be at a loss for words.
• 56:46
  Sean Harklerode: ….
• 56:48
  Tad Eggleston: It happens every once in a while.
• 56:50
  Mark Pracht: So…
• 56:51
  Mark Pracht: I'm sorry, I… I feel like, you know, this is an audio podcast, I feel like we're supposed to fill the… like, dead air, I feel like, start talking. Start talking.
• 57:01
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:03
  Mark Pracht: But… Okay.
• 57:06
  Mark Pracht: Tad just… Tad just groaned, like, he's like, dude, stop talking. Stop talking.
• 57:10
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no.
• 57:13
  Tad Eggleston: Like I said, I'm just… I'm… it's my first full week of school, it's 9 o'clock on Thursday, and I fell flat on my face this morning. I'm starting to hit a wall.
• 57:25
  Sean Harklerode: 9 o'clock on a Thursday.
• 57:28
  Mark Pracht: The regular crowd.
• 57:30
  Mark Pracht: zen.
• 57:31
  Mark Pracht: They're all in the mood for a comic book.
• 57:36
  Mark Pracht: And we've got a few… coming in… anyway. ….
• 57:45
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I mean, I think, you know, the…
• 57:48
  Sean Harklerode: if we want to sum things up, I think… to get back to Funky.
• 57:52
  Sean Harklerode: The collapse of the house.
• 57:56
  Sean Harklerode: Of ideas, basically.
• 57:58
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 58:00
  Sean Harklerode: And… him… Walking away basically unscathed.
• 58:06
  Sean Harklerode: Without his disguise.
• 58:08
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 58:09
  Sean Harklerode: is… I think that's… That's Jack's final word here.
• 58:16
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 58:17
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, but I also, you know, like, that's Jack's final word, but I mean, I also think that history proved
• 58:27
  Mark Pracht: you know, otherwise, I mean… Like, I will say, like, the… the caricature… of Stan.
• 58:39
  Mark Pracht: Is scathing, as you said.
• 58:42
  Mark Pracht: And… I can almost accept that.
• 58:49
  Mark Pracht: But it's… It's… I… I think that the Roy Thomas character… A, calling him House Roy.
• 59:01
  Mark Pracht: And… And making… like, and a person that he'd never met.
• 59:07
  Mark Pracht: like… Like, it's just sort of, like…
• 59:12
  Mark Pracht: it's guilt by association, which is… it would seem to be one of the things that Jack would be horrified by, you know?
• 59:20
  Mark Pracht: Right. And, … In other contexts. But as we know, and that's not me being, like.
• 59:29
  Mark Pracht: Jack Kirby, what a jerk. It's just, you know, that's… we're all human. We're all full of hypocrisy, we're all full of contradiction. You know, it… it is… it is just…
• 59:39
  Mark Pracht: … it is… one of, like…
• 59:46
  Mark Pracht: I will say, like, we haven't really talked about the art. The art is magnificent.
• 59:50
  Mark Pracht: The caricature of Stan is actually quite good.
• 59:55
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 59:57
  Mark Pracht: … But, you know, like… Oh.
• 1:00:02
  Sean Harklerode: You know, the disguise and the real….
• 1:00:05
  Mark Pracht: the disguise and the real… the real version of Funky. …
• 1:00:10
  Mark Pracht: So, I mean, like, you can't say, like, the second panel on page 23, when he's jumping out of the explosion.
• 1:00:19
  Mark Pracht: It's magnificent.
• 1:00:21
  Mark Pracht: … It's evocative, it's… it's… just… it's incredible. I mean, and…
• 1:00:29
  Mark Pracht: But it… it is just really… It's really hard… for me, to…
• 1:00:43
  Mark Pracht: It's just hard for me to read.
• 1:00:46
  Tad Eggleston: As the one that always has to play both Devil's advocate, and… …
• 1:00:58
  Tad Eggleston: trying to… and I know you do too, Mark. Sean, you do too, but Mark writes about it, trying to really get into the psychology of
• 1:01:07
  Tad Eggleston: people and how things happen. Is it possible?
• 1:01:11
  Tad Eggleston: The part of this is… the result of…
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: Jack working fast and having no editor. So he had a bad day on the day he happened to make this comic, and nobody was there to say, Jack, don't.
• 1:01:31
  Mark Pracht: I think… here's… here's my thing.
• 1:01:35
  Mark Pracht: This would have been after… Or relatively close to the time when he started going to San Diego.
• 1:01:44
  Mark Pracht: And he started interacting with all of those kids, who all treated him Like a god, right?
• 1:01:51
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:01:52
  Mark Pracht: And I think… it's… it's much the same way that I think about
• 1:02:01
  Mark Pracht: And I think I've talked about this before, but it's the Gene Roddenberry effect of when you're surrounded by people who keep telling you that you are…
• 1:02:10
  Mark Pracht: the… The well from which everything comes.
• 1:02:15
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:02:16
  Mark Pracht: You start believing it.
• 1:02:19
  Tad Eggleston: But that doesn't make you mean automatically.
• 1:02:22
  Mark Pracht: Well, and I also think that that…
• 1:02:24
  Mark Pracht: He would tell these stories to these kids, you know, comics will break your heart, kid.
• 1:02:28
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:02:30
  Mark Pracht: And, I think that… He was getting feedback that was like, well, you know, and…
• 1:02:38
  Mark Pracht: you know, the kids were probably telling him about Roy Thomas.
• 1:02:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:02:43
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and it's like…
• 1:02:48
  Mark Pracht: how much….
• 1:02:49
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, but, I mean, but again.
• 1:02:51
  Sean Harklerode: I have a story about Roy, about the sale.
• 1:02:55
  Tad Eggleston: Right, I mean….
• 1:02:56
  Sean Harklerode: sale come out yet? I mean, that might be….
• 1:03:00
  Mark Pracht: the sale. I, I'm not… Please contextualize that for me.
• 1:03:05
  Sean Harklerode: there's… There's a story, about, … a St. Louis Comic-Con.
• 1:03:16
  Sean Harklerode: Oh. A lot of Jack original art.
• 1:03:20
  Mark Pracht: Original art, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Sean Harklerode: And… … the thought is that Roy Had a hand in that.
• 1:03:29
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:03:29
  Sean Harklerode: Depending on who you….
• 1:03:31
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:03:32
  Sean Harklerode: about it. Wow.
• 1:03:33
  Mark Pracht: Right. Yeah, no, I think, you know, look, I in no way, am trying to belittle Jack's problems, or the way.
• 1:03:43
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:03:43
  Mark Pracht: Marvel… did things that they should not have done. …
• 1:03:51
  Mark Pracht: But I also think it was around this time.
• 1:03:54
  Mark Pracht: that you started having things like Comic-Con selling original artwork.
• 1:03:59
  Mark Pracht: Right? Like, prior, Prior to the early 70s.
• 1:04:07
  Mark Pracht: like, was there a value for that kind of stuff? Like, you know, we have, like, these interviews with all of these old-timers who are like… and they're like, did you get your artwork back? He's like, no, why would I want it?
• 1:04:19
  Mark Pracht: Like, I didn't want to keep all this stuff.
• 1:04:21
  Tad Eggleston: I was recently told that Justin Green sold all of the pages to…
• 1:04:29
  Tad Eggleston: Binky Brown. To his own lawyer!
• 1:04:32
  Tad Eggleston: At $8 a page.
• 1:04:35
  Tad Eggleston: And even when he found out that friends of his
• 1:04:39
  Tad Eggleston: were getting more for their stuff, the lawyer wouldn't… wouldn't let him renegotiate it up. He's like, a deal's a deal.
• 1:04:46
  Mark Pracht: Right. But I mean, like….
• 1:04:47
  Tad Eggleston: And, yeah.
• 1:04:49
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, I just don't think… I don't think that any of those guys thought that it had any value.
• 1:04:53
  Mark Pracht: I don't… I don't think they thought it that way. And, that certain… like, I certainly think that…
• 1:05:02
  Mark Pracht: if Roy Thomas was involved with that St. Louis sale, and now
• 1:05:06
  Mark Pracht: the context… with context, I understand what you're talking about. … … That is a issue.
• 1:05:16
  Mark Pracht: But it… I firmly believe, at this point.
• 1:05:27
  Mark Pracht: I think Goodman was still there.
• 1:05:31
  Mark Pracht: I think this is right before…
• 1:05:36
  Mark Pracht: Maybe I… my timeline might be wrong, but…
• 1:05:39
  Mark Pracht: like, it also… like, it could have come from the top. It could have been, like, Goodman telling Roy Thomas to get rid of that stuff, or, …
• 1:05:49
  Mark Pracht: Because I certainly, I really, I really think that Stan's control of that company is overstated.
• 1:05:58
  Mark Pracht: Until Goodman leaves.
• 1:06:01
  Mark Pracht: and once Cadence has purchased Marvel, and they install Stan as the publisher, right?
• 1:06:09
  Mark Pracht: That's when he has control over this stuff, right?
• 1:06:14
  Mark Pracht: Doesn't mean that he did the right thing all the time, but… You know.
• 1:06:21
  Mark Pracht: He made the deal for Jack to come back.
• 1:06:25
  Mark Pracht: And Jack did come back.
• 1:06:29
  Mark Pracht: So, I don't know. I mean, like, the whole thing, I mean, like, in a way, this issue is worth its own, like, 3-hour discussion, because, like, it… there's so much shit that is piled into this book.
• 1:06:44
  Mark Pracht: You know, about how an artist feels manipulated by management, and how it feels manipulated by…
• 1:06:54
  Mark Pracht: The money men, and the suits, and also…
• 1:07:00
  Mark Pracht: You know, like, the sexual implications of it.
• 1:07:05
  Mark Pracht: are… you know, I know, like you said, Sean, it is…
• 1:07:14
  Mark Pracht: it… sometimes it's a little strange to talk about it, but I mean, like, the things are there.
• 1:07:20
  Sean Harklerode: Right. Right.
• 1:07:21
  Mark Pracht: And, and, … I do think that….
• 1:07:30
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, we've got… we've got Barda in the tub here.
• 1:07:34
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:07:35
  Sean Harklerode: I mean… There's a… there's a lot going on.
• 1:07:38
  Sean Harklerode: And Barta, at the bottom of page 11, you know.
• 1:07:44
  Sean Harklerode: With her towel not wrapped around her, but just.
• 1:07:47
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:07:48
  Sean Harklerode: However, I mean… This is per… per… for Jack.
• 1:07:52
  Mark Pracht: jazz.
• 1:07:53
  Sean Harklerode: This is… a lot.
• 1:07:55
  Mark Pracht: Well, and I also think that… Yeah, no, it's also a lot, but I mean, it's also… I'm just talking about imagery stuff. Like, you know, we… like, I have a laugh about Granny Goodness's power wand.
• 1:08:08
  Mark Pracht: That looks stunningly like a vibrator, right? … And… I…
• 1:08:18
  Mark Pracht: With the nature of that character.
• 1:08:21
  Mark Pracht: I have to think that on a visual level, Jack was having a little fun, right? Right. And I think that…
• 1:08:29
  Mark Pracht: What is lovely?
• 1:08:33
  Mark Pracht: about… … Scott and Barta.
• 1:08:39
  Mark Pracht: Is that they clearly have a sexual relationship.
• 1:08:45
  Mark Pracht: like… It comes out of every panel to me, you know?
• 1:08:51
  Mark Pracht: it's an adult relationship, and I think that's great. …
• 1:08:58
  Mark Pracht: But I think it also speaks to… I think it speaks to Jack's relationship with Roz, because I still say that Barda is his stand-in for Roz.
• 1:09:07
  Sean Harklerode: Right. Right.
• 1:09:08
  Mark Pracht: … But, … It… yeah.
• 1:09:14
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. Thinking about… Yeah, go ahead.
• 1:09:18
  Sean Harklerode: I was gonna skip to the young Scott Free story. It reminded me,
• 1:09:24
  Sean Harklerode: a lot of the stuff on Apocalypse
• 1:09:27
  Sean Harklerode: The signage reminds me of the prisoner.
• 1:09:31
  Mark Pracht: Exactly.
• 1:09:32
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Mark Pracht: Well, we know that Jack knew of the prisoner, and liked the prisoner.
• 1:09:40
  Sean Harklerode: Right, didn't he draw something?
• 1:09:42
  Mark Pracht: He drew, … he was going to do, I think it was for DC, that DC thought they had the rights to do a prisoner comic book, and Jack was gonna draw it. There are pages out there of his version of the prisoner.
• 1:09:54
  Sean Harklerode: Right. And, ….
• 1:09:56
  Mark Pracht: … you know, I think that it spoke to…
• 1:10:01
  Mark Pracht: a lot of the same things that he was trying to talk about with Apocalypse. Certainly, like, even… even the dark side of, like, I am not interested in cruelty.
• 1:10:11
  Mark Pracht: Like, most of the number twos
• 1:10:18
  Mark Pracht: on the prisoner spend their time trying to seduce number 6, rather than… bludgeon him into… you know.
• 1:10:29
  Mark Pracht: conformity, right?
• 1:10:30
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:10:31
  Mark Pracht: And I think… I think that that's all really interesting. Anyway. But Tad is… Tad is, … Fading.
• 1:10:38
  Tad Eggleston: I'm also reading about the… the Gateway Con.
• 1:10:44
  Tad Eggleston: I found an article on it.
• 1:10:49
  Mark Pracht: So, so, so I'm reading about stolen artwork in St. Louis. I fell down the rabbit hole that Sean gave me.
• 1:10:57
  Sean Harklerode: Of course, what?
• 1:10:58
  Mark Pracht: What's really interesting… what's really interesting is when… when Colleen and I were at that… exhibit, right?
• 1:11:08
  Mark Pracht: she was asking me, well, how did they… like, I thought you said that… that, like, his artwork was lost. I said, yeah, well, like I say in the play, it was either…
• 1:11:18
  Mark Pracht: … Lost, stolen, or destroyed.
• 1:11:22
  Mark Pracht: And she said, so, was all his artwork stolen? And I said, I would hazard to guess
• 1:11:28
  Mark Pracht: In a lot of these cases, especially with that early Marvel stuff, It probably was.
• 1:11:36
  Mark Pracht: You know? That… I mean, and I… I'm not going to assign…
• 1:11:45
  Mark Pracht: Moral indignation to fans who
• 1:11:48
  Mark Pracht: were given the opportunity to buy a page of Jack Kirby artwork and did so.
• 1:11:53
  Mark Pracht: Unbeknownst to them, that it was… not.
• 1:11:58
  Mark Pracht: the opportunity wasn't given to Jack to get it back.
• 1:12:01
  Mark Pracht: Right. But, at the same time, like…
• 1:12:04
  Mark Pracht: I'm willing to bet, like, you know, we were going through that room, and there was a lot of stuff, and it was, like, from the private collection of whoever, right? And I was like, you know, this guy seems to have a hell of a lot of Jack Kirby artwork.
• 1:12:17
  Mark Pracht: And, … it may have changed hands over the years. I mean, obviously, we've seen Kirby pages for sale.
• 1:12:28
  Mark Pracht: In San Diego.
• 1:12:30
  Mark Pracht: All out of my price range, but… I look.
• 1:12:36
  Mark Pracht: Every damn time, you know?
• 1:12:38
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Mark Pracht: ….
• 1:12:40
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I know, and I don't know if… if…
• 1:12:44
  Sean Harklerode: the Kirby estate has thought of something like this, but I know the Ditko estate You know, they…
• 1:12:51
  Sean Harklerode: Are issuing an amnesty.
• 1:12:54
  Sean Harklerode: Like, anyone who has DITCO art, … It's yours.
• 1:13:02
  Sean Harklerode: But they are asking, you know, people to, … Lend it to them.
• 1:13:10
  Mark Pracht: Sure. To get high-quality scans. Sure.
• 1:13:14
  Sean Harklerode: And they'll give a certificate that this is yours, it's free and clear, there's no…
• 1:13:19
  Sean Harklerode: they have no claim on it, but in order to get that certificate, and I believe this is… that's how this works, they want to get a very high-quality scan so they can have… have that for, you know, posterity, and … probably,
• 1:13:37
  Sean Harklerode: You know, future artist edition type.
• 1:13:40
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and there's a… there's a Forever People Artist Edition.
• 1:13:45
  Tad Eggleston: Coming out this week.
• 1:13:47
  Tad Eggleston: … So they must have been able to collect…
• 1:13:51
  Tad Eggleston: A significant amount of those pages.
• 1:13:54
  Tad Eggleston: I think it said that, …
• 1:13:56
  Tad Eggleston: All of issues… let me go look it up again.
• 1:14:01
  Tad Eggleston: ….
• 1:14:08
  Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, I think that there's enough of this stuff floating around now, …
• 1:14:15
  Mark Pracht: that people are able to find it, but… and I do think, you know, for the most part.
• 1:14:23
  Mark Pracht: and I… I certainly get the impression from…
• 1:14:26
  Mark Pracht: the Kirby family, that they're not interested in trying to re-ass any of this stuff.
• 1:14:31
  Mark Pracht: … for… you know.
• 1:14:37
  Mark Pracht: Because, like, honestly, as I said, I think in most cases, most of these people don't have any
• 1:14:45
  Mark Pracht: There was no… ill intent in getting it. It was just…
• 1:14:51
  Mark Pracht: They wanted a piece of Jack's art.
• 1:14:53
  Mark Pracht: But… You know, and I was, you know…
• 1:14:57
  Mark Pracht: I… I was explaining to… I was explaining to Colleen about how, you know, they… like, at DC, they'd slice it up.
• 1:15:04
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they, they used to do that with, …
• 1:15:08
  Tad Eggleston: Windsor McKay. Almost all of the Little Nemo got sliced up.
• 1:15:13
  Mark Pracht: They would slice it up, and like, if somebody sent in a good letter.
• 1:15:16
  Tad Eggleston: Right. … Yeah, no, Windsor McKay's kids sold off, essentially, panel by panel of… Little Nemo, …
• 1:15:30
  Tad Eggleston: I know the Billy Ireland has at least one complete page, but they had to, like, recollect it.
• 1:15:36
  Tad Eggleston: You know, you can see where it's been cut up.
• 1:15:40
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, the Artist Edition coming out this week has…
• 1:15:44
  Tad Eggleston: All of 14567 and select pages from 8.
• 1:15:52
  Tad Eggleston: … Including corrections, blue pencil… pencils, pasteovers… So you're seeing original art.
• 1:16:06
  Tad Eggleston: Excellent.
• 1:16:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:16:09
  Tad Eggleston: Well, that's another one in the books.
• 1:16:12
  Mark Pracht: There you go.
• 1:16:13
  Tad Eggleston: And… More fun next week? We'll be on, what, issue 7 of everything?
• 1:16:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. And a couple more issues of Jimmy Olson.
• 1:16:22
  Mark Pracht: Couple more issues….
• 1:16:23
  Tad Eggleston: And in between then, we'll maybe get back to the shadow on pulp blotter, and then….
• 1:16:29
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 1:16:30
  Tad Eggleston: Figure out where to go from there. And anything else you guys want to plug?
• 1:16:34
  Mark Pracht: I, ….
• 1:16:36
  Tad Eggleston: Anybody acting or anything right now?
• 1:16:39
  Sean Harklerode: I'll be starting, rehearsals, but, we'll be… …
• 1:16:45
  Sean Harklerode: We'll be back before, the curtain bows, so I can.
• 1:16:49
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:16:49
  Sean Harklerode: I can plug that next time.
• 1:16:52
  Tad Eggleston: That sounds good.
• 1:16:53
  Mark Pracht: Everything is….
• 1:16:55
  Sean Harklerode: analysis.
• 1:16:55
  Mark Pracht: Nothing.
• 1:16:56
  Mark Pracht: I have nothing.
• 1:16:57
  Tad Eggleston: Nothing.
• 1:16:59
  Mark Pracht: Although….
• 1:16:59
  Tad Eggleston: dear.
• 1:17:00
  Mark Pracht: Last, I did bring… I did bring Sean the, the four… four-pack box set of Migo Fantastic Four action figures from the Disney Park exclusive.
• 1:17:12
  Mark Pracht: So….
• 1:17:13
  Sean Harklerode: They're awesome.
• 1:17:14
  Mark Pracht: They are awesome. I have a.
• 1:17:15
  Tad Eggleston: I'm totally forgetting which Ash can I asked you guys to get me at San Diego, but did you manage to get it?
• 1:17:21
  Sean Harklerode: No. You did not?
• 1:17:22
  Tad Eggleston: No, of course not.
• 1:17:24
  Tad Eggleston: That's okay.
• 1:17:25
  Mark Pracht: Where… Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  Tad Eggleston: You have your specific schedule. I knew it was a long shot.
• 1:17:33
  Mark Pracht: Anyway… Oh, wait.
• 1:17:34
  Tad Eggleston: Now I remember what it was, and I know the editor on the book, so, you know, I might beg her to send me one if she's got one.
• 1:17:40
  Mark Pracht: Send Ted one of the books.
• 1:17:43
  Mark Pracht: Tad is fading. Tad is fading.
• 1:17:46
  Tad Eggleston: Tad is… Tad is fading.
• 1:17:48
  Mark Pracht: I'll say….
• 1:17:49
  Sean Harklerode: Copper.
• 1:17:50
  Mark Pracht: I'll say… Thanks for listening to the 22 Panels Podcast.
• 1:17:54
  Mark Pracht: And we'll see you after the next page!