Latest / I Am All In with Scott Patterson / I Smell Pop Culture: Miss Manners

Transcript

I Smell Pop Culture: Miss Manners · I Am All In with Scott Patterson

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I Am all in again.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Oh it's just you.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: I Smell pop Culture with Eastern Allen and I Heeart
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Radio podcast.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Ah do you smell that?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Everybody that smells like pop culture? My name is Easton Allen.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: You just heard Scott Patterson say it. This is the
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I Smell pop Culture Podcast, a subsidiary of I Am
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: all In one eleven productions. iHeart Radio, I heart Media,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I heart podcasts. Here's what we do here, people, We
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: explore the pop culture references in Gilmore Girls. We look
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: at the people that made them real, the songs, the movies,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: the institutions, the ideas that are in these pop culture
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: references within the world of Gilmore, within Stars Hollow that
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: continues today. Thanks for joining us. This is really exciting.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of pressure with this guest we're talking
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: to this week. There's a lot of pressure here. I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: feel so scared. Not because she's mean, no, no, by
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: all counts. This is a very nice person. But we're
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: going to talk to miss Manners, Miss Manners, and I
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: need to make sure that I greet her correctly and
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: we run this. I have to run a very tight
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: ship over here, because this is the master of etiquette.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: We're talking to miss Manners for a very specific reason.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: That's because she was referenced in season one, episode eighteen.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: This is the third Laura Lai and if you remember correctly,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: let's go back to season one here, there's a scene where,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: kind of early in the episode, Laura is working at
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the Independence End, Emily calls her to demand the hat
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: rack back. She gave Laurlai that hat rack five years
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: ago for Christmas, and it was gifted to Emily by
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Richard's mother, and she's coming over and she's going to
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: notice that hat rack isn't there. So once Laura I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: realizes that she was the victim of a regift, she says,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you gave me a secondhand present, like something you got
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: at the junk store, and Emily says, you're being a
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: little dramatic. It was still in the crate. LAURLI responds,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: you actually went, huh, what should I get Laurele this year?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: You know what, I can't be bothered. Let's give her
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: something we don't want anymore. And Emily replies, you're not funny,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and Laura I says, well, what would Miss Manners say
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: about that? And Emily replies, well, if she met your grandmother,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: she'd understand. So that is in reference to if you
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: don't know Miss Manners. Miss Manners is the queen of etiquette.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: She started a column in nineteen seventy eight called Miss Manners.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: People write in with their etiquette questions and Miss Manners
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: answers them. This was carried in over two hundred newspapers worldwide.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: She's written multiple books about etiquette, about Manners, about politeness, customs.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: She is a fascinating person, and we're going to talk
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: to her and her daughter, Bina, who is also Mismanners.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: We've got two generations of Miss Manners joining us today,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: and they are here right now. We're going to talk
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: to them and find out. We're gonna get answer that question.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: First of all, we're going to find out what Mismanners
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: would say about Emily's attempt to take back this gift.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: But Judith Martin and being a Martin aer here, Hi, guys,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: how's it going good?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Are you hello?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So great to see you, Nice to see you. Thank
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. We are so excited.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I am fascinated by you and your career and everything
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: you've done for American culture.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I just want to say that right off the top.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, there's something I need to clear
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: up with you. This is a question that has gone
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: unanswered for fans of the show Gilmore Girls for twenty
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: four years now. You were mentioned in Gilmore Girls in
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: two thousand and one, and the question is a character
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: is asked by her mother to give back a gift.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: She's like.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Her mom calls her and says, I need the hat
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: rack back that I gave you for Christmas. And she
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: says why, and her mom's says, because your grandmother, my
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: mother is coming over. She gave me that hat rack
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: and I gave it to you, and if she sees
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: that I don't have it out, she's going to be mad.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: And so then Loreli, the character, she says, what would
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Miss Manners say about this? I see two problems here,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: two questions here. First of all, is regifting, okay, can
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: you regift something?
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: Regifting in general means giving away something that you got.
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: This is not exactly this example you cited. In that case,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: if you can get away with it if nobody knows, fine,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: But in the example you cited, she's just borrowing it
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: back to playcat mother. Why not?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's okay, Well, of course, I.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Mean that's the idea is her mother would be upset.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: Although you know, technically speaking, you're not supposed to look
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: around and see if your presence that you gave he
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: are still there, but people do. And if she used
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: it puts the hat rack back, why not. I mean
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: the idea is not that she's actually taking it back,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: she's just borrowing it. But in general regifting, as I say,
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: if you can get away with it, fine, but make
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: sure you don't give it back to the person who
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: gave it to you.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: That's a crucial element there. So let's go back to
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: the beginning here. You started as a journalist, I mean,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a film critic, a theater critic. How did you How
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: did the calling begin?
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: I didn't start that way. I started as a copy girl,
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: and you don't even know what that is. Who gets
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: sandwiches for reporters at the newspaper and runs copy back
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: when it was a typed copy. So I was that.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I was a reporter, and then I was critic, and
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: then I did the column.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: How did the calling begin? How did you discover this past?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: For etiquette manners in this?
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: Like my parents were very interested in history and archaeology
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: and anthropology, and one of the things they said was,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: if you want to know what a given society was
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: like at a different time, look at their rules. And
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: they were thinking of law really not etiquette, but look
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: at their rules. Whatever they're being told not to do,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: that's what they're doing, because otherwise you wouldn't have to
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: tell them not to and to. I extended this to manners,
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: to etiquette. We lived abroad a bit and I saw
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: that behavior is not just spontaneous and natural. Different people
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: behave different ways, and so I was always interested in
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: the subject. And I mean, I think it's fascinating how
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: people treat one another.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's very fast. I mean, I find it
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: just so fascinating. And how I mean it differs from
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: culture to culture, but overall, I mean, I think we
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: all have the same understanding of how you should treat
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: another person.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: The rules can be very different. I make a distinction
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: between the principles of manners, which are universal and unchangeable,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: and the particular rules because the particular ways people express
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: this in different societies at different times, and it's different
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: subgroups that can be different. But the basic understanding that's
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: one of the nice things about the references in the
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Gilmer Girls that they understood the underlying principles are really important.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, forgive this question.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious though, like when you when both of
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: you get invited to dinner parties, are your friends like nervous.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: For you to cut? Like I got to make sure
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: everything is right of course.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: That they're my friends.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that used to be when I I mean, I'm
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: well beyond dating age now and happily married. But when
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: I was going on dates early, that used to be
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: the test. If they made a big deal about Oh,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I guess I have to watch my manners. I'm like, okay,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: we're done, goodbye, because it's just it's it gets so old.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, the whole point of manners is you don't
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: call out people being you know us, you know, using
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: the wrong fork or whatever it is. We don't want
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: to draw attention to it. So if people think that's
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: the only thing that we're looking for, it gets like
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: pretty tedious pretty quickly.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: And if people say that exactly what Beata sidate, they
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: say that to me, first of all, they're not really
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: going to be my pals, because it would bore me
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: to tears, but I usually say if you did something wrong,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: I would be too polite to notice.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: All right, I love it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: And that raises another question like if you if you
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: see someone behaving with poor manners, is it good? Like
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: do you point it out? Or is that bad manners
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: in itself?
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: If that person is your minor child, yeah, everybody else's
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: is off out of bounds.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: I mean it depends too, though what kind I mean
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: if you read the column, we talk all the time
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: about what kind of manners it is. If it's it's
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: a you know, a table dinner table violation, of course not.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: But if someone is rude to us, we're still not
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: pointing it out. But we have ways of being so
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: polite that they sometimes I don't realize that we are
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: schooling them. So there's there's techniques to.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Or defending ourselves.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, right exactly. So it depends on what kind of
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: violation it is. But yeah, we're not going around like
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: you know, the Manners police telling people what they're doing wrong.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: That's the epitome of bad manners.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Nor are we letting people trample all over us.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: So exactly.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes people say, well, you know, you always have
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: to defer to the other person, No, you don't. They're
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: polite ways of not doing that.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Someone else I was curious about is like technology has
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: advanced so much, even just like the last few years,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and the way people communicate has changed so much, Like
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: how like there's got to be etiquette questions that have
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: you know, come up over the last ten twenty years,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: like how long before you do like how long do
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: you wait before texting someone back before it's rude? And
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: things like that, like how how has technology changed etiquette
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: or has it?
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Of course it has, of course it is, but and
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: sometimes very much for the better. As an example, the
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: telephone was always a rude instrument. It says it's noisy,
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: it says stop whatever you're doing and pay attention to me.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: People have now come to realize that if you just
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: want to chat, text someone first and find out a
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: good time. So that's a big advance in matters.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: For example, something that drives me crazy and I don't
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: know if I need to talk to my friends about this,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: but the putting the phone on the dinner table, like
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: having the cell phone. They think that turning it over
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: then it's it's okay where the screen is down. But
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: like that to me, is so I find that to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: be so upsetting and right, well, yeah, that's the I mean,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: so is that on me to like tell my friends like,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I don't I find this disrespectful? Can you put your
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: phone away? Or is there a different way I should
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: be handling this?
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: If they use the phone, No, you don't go around
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: scolding your friends. But if they in any way use
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: the phone, you tune now, you say, or you do
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: something else and you say, well, you know, treated as
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: if they left the room. Okay, that's an example of
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: not being trampled on. Okay, you're on the phone, I'm
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: going to go do something else.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: And it's so tempting. I mean, if you ever watch
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: a group of people, one person takes a phone out,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, everybody, So it's modeling bad behavior.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I mean I always think if you have an emergency,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: you have a child, you have a situation, you say, hey,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: i'm here, I'm just going to put this, you know,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: on vibrate or something only because of whatever. But people
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: tend to I'm reluctant to even say that because people
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: then abuse it because everything's an emergency, right, like of course,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: whether or not, like yeah.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Exactly if you have a child, what the child's going
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: to have an appendix attack while you're at a dinner party.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: If the child is it all ill? You shouldn't be
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: at a dinner party. You should be on with the child.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: But there are emergencies, I mean, we want to allow
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: for that, just said, being everybody, everything's an emergency. If
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: it can be used for good and not evil, then
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: then we're here for it.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But otherwise, so was there ju Was there one column
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that stands out to you as being like your most controversial?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Is there one that that you remember like that?
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Oh, everything's controversial because first of all, everybody wants to
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: be an exception. Yes, and uh. The second of all,
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: you know, the letters that people write to us, and
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: you know, being a rights uh a column it says
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: her brother, the letters that people write to us are
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: not how should I behave there? How could I? How
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: can I get even with the people who are rude
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: to me? And usually the first choice is always violence
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: of some sort to drive them off the road or whatever,
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: or blatant rudeness. And so that's one of the big
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: things we're always dealing with that if you're if someone
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: is rude to you and you are rude back, you're
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: doubling the amount of rudeness, which, as I said earlier,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean you need to let them trample on you.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: There are polite ways of dealing with things. But that's
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: that's the main thing. Where can you say beinga that
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: we're always fighting that people want to be They want
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: us to justify their being rude.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and they also want to tell us why
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: they're the exception. So I think it gets controversial when
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: they say, well, you don't understand I have you know,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: a disability, or I have a whatever. And again, a
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: lot of that is legitimate, and we're not here to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: shame people about legitimate things. But when you start similarly
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: using it as an excuse for everything, then it starts
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to become like, okay, well then we all have we
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: all have issues, we all come to the table with something,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: and if we're going to start using that as an
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: excuse every single time, I'm it's just rudeness. Well let's
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: just call it what it is.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you hearing that, because that's something that crosses
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: my mind. A lot is a but like, it's fascinating
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: that most people are asking for like you to justify
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: their bad behavior as opposed to like, I don't know
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: how to act in this situation, what is their appropriate way?
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: You're a little of that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, wow, Sometimes we have people who are like, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: they'll say, perhaps I was raised by wolves, can you
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: help me? And then of course our heart goes out
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: to them, we want we want to help. But yeah,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: more often than not, people wanna lord over everyone else.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: How incredibly polite they were for being rude because somebody
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: was rude to them.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like I keep thinking about like you
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: don't know what you don't know? And I'm I'm a
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: guy that I opened the door for my wife every
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: every time we get in the car, I hold the
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: door up before. But something this happened just a year ago.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: We were walking down the street and she was on
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the we're walking on sidewalk and she was on the
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: street side of the sidewalk and I was on the interior.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And a man stopped us and he pulled me aside
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and he said, you always need to walk on the
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: street side. That's something you need to do. And I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: didn't know that that was I didn't realize that was
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: not being chivalrous and it stuck with me and every
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: time walk on the street since then, I make sure
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to do that. But now I'm like, what else am
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I missing?
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: How was it first a stranger to stop you on
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: the street over a trivial point like that. As a
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: matter of fact, yes, you know what this dates from
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: when people used to pour slop out the window and
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: the man would be the woman would be closer to
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: the building and not get poured on her. So it's
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: as a medieval a medieval rule, and there are countries
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: where it's always on the right, not necessarily on the
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: street side. But I mean, here's a trivial point you're
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: very gracious about accepting, and some stranger tells you you're
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: being rude to your wife.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know if I should because that's what
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: kind of what I thought. But then I was like,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: is this me being defensive? Because I was like ignoring this,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: like you know, custom or something. But I also thought
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: it was kind of a wild thing for a stranger to.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Say, yeah, in such an old fashioned rule, like we
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: know it, but it's it's not one that I think
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: most people do. I always thought it was it was
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: horse issues because if you're if you're by the if
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: the when, the if, the slap out the window, be
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: closer to the woman who's closer to the building.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Who knows. Maybe it's okay.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I thought I always thought it was horse manure or something.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: You're gonna be rude to your wife. You could choose
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: more blatant with yeah, exactly.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I did think about that. I was like, I'm like, hey, listen, Pali,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: we're doing okay over here.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, don't cause problems.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: It's so like if if someone that's another thing that, like,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many people can relate to this.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm gonna make this all about me right now,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: but I am always overridden with fear that I am
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: being rude and I'm not realizing it or no, no
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: one's saying it to me. I'm doing something that I
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: don't know is rude, Like how how often does that happen?
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Like what I don't know?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's an I guess I can't give an
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: example because I don't know, But like, am I not?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know?
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Like that just not.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Walking on the outside of the street or the sidewalk
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: is your worst defense. I think you're doing okay. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: mean rude people usually are rude because they don't care.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: They they're like or they're you know, they think they're
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: defending themselves or whatever. I mean, I think the biggest
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: violations are are meanness usually or it's not like you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: napkins and you know, things like that that you're sure,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I guess you have bad luck, and people like to
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: point that out. But that's not that's not the stuff
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: that we're truly worried about.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: If you could give someone one piece of etiquette advice,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: just one like to make them a more to have
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: better manners overall, what would that advice be.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: We write five hundred page books.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, he did many books.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Behavior, So I mean, think about other people. I kind
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: of take took a strange turn. And my career besides
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: this and that, I work at Second City and I
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: do improv and it's not dissimilar. Like the rules of
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: improv are very much like it's thinking about other people
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: listening before you respond. I mean, I think a lot
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: of times people, probably rightly so, make fun of improv
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: that it's just you know, trying to be joky and
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: all that. But it's really about the ensemble and about
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: caring about the people around you, and I think Manners
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: at its best is intended to do that as well.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: The basic bargain of civilization is that I will restrain
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: my more offensive impulses if you will do the same,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: because in the interests of living in peace, I love
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: it and you just have to agree to that. And
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: if it goes out of kilter in one direction or
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: the other, if the individual is suppressed to the point
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: where it's unpleasant, or if there is no inhibition on
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: the individual, either one is very a very bad way
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: to live.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I completely agree.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Being absolutely. It's like the rules of theater and of
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: improv And when earlier you were asking about I moved
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: from being a critic. That's what you look as a
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: theater critic or film critic. That's what you look at.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: You look at dialogue, gesture, costume. How do people treat
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: one another and how do they show symbolically at what
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: kind of person they are.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It's so fascinating, and we have more to get into.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: We're here with Judith Martin, with Miss Manners herself and
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: being of Martin, her daughter. We're going to be right back.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: We have two miss Manners here, two Mismanners with us,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to very politely introduce the following commercials,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: so please stay tuned everybody. It's the Icepel Pop culture podcast.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: My name is Easton All. I'm here with miss Manners,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: two of them, two miss Manners, Judis Martin and Beana Martin,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: her daughter, her lovely daughter. So I read that being
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: a right after you got married, you you two wrote
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: a book, Mismanner's Guide to a surprisingly dignified Wedding. What
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: was the wedding planning process? Like having the mother that
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you have, and there's so much that goes in a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: wedding in terms of etiquette, I mean, what was that
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: like for you?
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was so much fun. I understand when
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: people say like, oh, it's stressful. Yeah, you're trying to
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: make a lot of people happy, but you're also getting
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: to eat a lot of cake and try on dresses.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: And we had a good time. And I think, as
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I say, whenever anyone asks me, what's it like being
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: my mother's daughter? First of all, I don't have another
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: point of reference, so of course it was great. I mean,
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything else. But also it's very freeing.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I have this weird son that's coming on. But it's
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: very freeing that when you know the rules of etiquette
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: that you don't have to worry about it all the time.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And so you know, yes, it's great to have this
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: resource when it came to the details and things like that,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: but a lot of it was already ingrained in me
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: after living you know, for thirty something years at the time.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: So yeah, we had a blast and we got to
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: write about it, which was even more fun the book
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: when when the book she'd already written a wedding book,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: and then when it was up for renewal, correct me,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: mom if I if I'm getting any of this wrong.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: But and the timing happened to work out that I
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: just got engaged. So she asked me to help on it,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: and I was happy to write down, you know, the
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: things that were happening. But I noticed that other wedding
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: books were always trying to make the bride the villain
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: and you know, she's a bridezilla, and that was a
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: very popular thing at the time, and I was like,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: who's buying these books. It's the women that you're insulting
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: right now. So maybe it wasn't much better for the industry,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: but we were like, no, don't be led to believe,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: you know, don't be fooled by all the wedding industry.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Sadly we kind of which is also probably who's buying
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the books, but is the one who is leading to
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: you to all this. I mean, it's a terrible comparison,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: but it's somewhat like, you know, the funeral industry, Like
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: if you really cared, you do this, and you're taking
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: people at their most vulnerable when a lot of people
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: don't know what the rules are, and so they feel like, oh,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: I guess if I cared, then I'd have twenty brides
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: maids who are dressed exactly alike and they have to
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: buy a thousand dollars dresses. Otherwise I don't care, like
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: you know. So trying to dispel a lot of that
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: and just make it a fun party that doesn't have
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: to be the best day of your life. You hope
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: it's not. You hope you'll have many more and that
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: you get to keep your friends afterwards was seemed to
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: us to be a worthy goal.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: We did have a good time, didn't we did.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I tried all the cake I could get my hands on.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: That's such a anyone listening that is in the process
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of getting married, that's pay attention to those words, because like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I have such fun memories of my wedding too, And
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: that's what it's all about.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: What do most people.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Get wrong about put together a wedding? Like, what's something
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: that everyone misses the mark on?
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Well, the number one thing I hate is, oh, well,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: it's their day and they can do whatever they want.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: There are no.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Etiquette free days. And if you're getting married, you have guests,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: you have family, you have to be considerate of them. Yes,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: but people turn it into fundraisers, they turn it into bioepics.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Here's all about us, and I find all kinds of
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: strange ways to alienate their families and friends.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: And this is what again, the industry wants you to think,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: but that the venue, the food, the decorations, all of
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: that is more important than the people who attend. So
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: you hear constantly people saying, well, I mean, sure, small wedding, lovely.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: But if you're like, well, we're keeping it small because
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: we want to go to Aruba and you know, have
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: caviaar or whatever, it's a little hard to sympathize and
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: people get insulted. We get letters all the time of
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: people like, you know, this is my niece and I
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: wasn't invited, or I was invited to the video, you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: to the to a zoom version of it, and it
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: just seems like a present grab. And so I think,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: in service of what my mom just said of it
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: being my perfect day and I get to be celebrity
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: for a day, people ignore the people that they love
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: supposedly and treat them horribly.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I again, I appreciate hearing that, because you hear
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: that thrown around a lot, like oh, it's it's their
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: day or it's our day. We can do whatever we want.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I heard about a friend of mine did one of
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: those Disney weddings and there was no food because they
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: spent so much of the budget on having Mickey come
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: out to do the first dance.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Who knew Mickey was so expensive?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Wow? Yes, like twenty five grand for Mickey to come
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: out and dance.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: With you what?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Whychie the budget of my entire wedding. I was insane.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, I gotta get that gig right, Wow, no one
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: will ever know who it was me inside.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that. Gosh, I'll dance with whoever.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So this is a podcast about Gilmore Girls, and it's
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: that's a show that's ultimately about the relationship with a
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: mother and a daughter. And I mean, I just from
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: talking to you guys today, you get along so well.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: That's so fun to see mothers and daughters that have
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: this kind of a relationship.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Have you guys always been close?
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: We have?
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: And the thing is continued. Bina has a wonderful relationship
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: with her daughter.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: I love you, Yeah, I have. I have a teenager
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: who refuses to be like a teenager. She still likes
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: me and is kind to me and other people, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: she's she's wonderful.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: What are families for?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: If you're don't exactly well, I feel it necessary to
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: say too that Gilmore Girls is pretty much responsible for
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: the birth of my daughter because my husband and I
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: bonded uh even before our first date. We started talking
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: about how much we both loved Gilmore Girls and famously
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: in our relationship. He said, well, I have all the
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: DVDs if you want to borrow them, and I was like, no,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I'm good, and he was like later he was like,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: I was trying to make a move and you ignored it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: As I kind of like to watch things several times,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: although Ben we did, and then we watched it during
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: the pandemic, we watched it as a family. So Gilmore Girls,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: and and I so appreciate how the writers did when
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: we did get those reference manners references, because so often
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: it's it's used for evil, it's you. And obviously the
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Paladinos understood what manners, you know, what what mismanners represents
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: and was not using it as like this snooty thing
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to make people feel bad, was Laurel I really just
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: saying most of the time I think that, Yeah, they
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: just kind of being like, no, you got to be
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: nice to people.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: That makes me so happy, Like when when you saw
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that in Gilmer Girls. I mean, first of all, mismanagers
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: is a cultural icon. Mismanners is popped up everywhere. But
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: like seeing Gilmer Girls, was that? How did that feel
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: for you? Being a like seeing it on a show
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: you love, Like, was that exciting?
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so fun and it felt I mean
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: not that she was more than than validated, but yeah,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: and something that I really love when it was used,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: well yea was Yeah, it was a joy.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I love that so so much.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: And I love that you that there's multi generations of
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: this close mother daughter relationship being here. Is your daughter
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: going to take on the mismanners mantle? Does she have
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: any interest in that?
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, we were trying to indoctor Rainer.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: For both of you with this empire you've built. Does
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: it get You can be honest with me, It's just
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: it's just us here, Okay, no one else is listening?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Uh? Does it?
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Ever?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Does it get irritating?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Like when you're at a party or you're at the
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: bank to someone pull you aside and go, hey, how
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: can I cancel on my friend's birthday? You know, like
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: you must get those questions all the time in your
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: personal lives.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Right, No, No, occasionally, but I answer them as best
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: they can.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, I love it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: I mean I I don't. I don't think people my
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: name is on the byeline, but I don't. I don't
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: think I'm as readily associated with it. But I mean, actually,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: you know when I say that, and every once in
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: a while, I do have a friend who but they
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: do it very kindly. They're like, I know I shouldn't
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: abuse the relationship, but I have an etiquette problem. I'm like, yeah, sure,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: hit me.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: And we might sell our friends about their areas of expertise.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, thank yeah, it's like having a friend
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: as a doctor, you know exactly.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I was going to say that, I'm like, you don't
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: want to abuse it, but it's there as a resource of.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Uncle who got really tired of people telling them parties
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: telling him their medical things. And he would say, Okay,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: let's have a take your clothes off and I'll have
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: a look.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I love it so much.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: Nowadays they probably would though.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, seriously.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: So, uh, this is this has been so much fun
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: talking to you guys. And the column is still I mean,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: like people can find it online. Uh and uh, what's
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: the You've written so many books, I mean, what what's
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: if there's is there one book you would recommend to
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: people that want to improve their etiquette overall?
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: One of your books, Well, there's a kind of encyclopedic
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: one called which is the original one, and then I
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: did a revised version of it, Miss Manners Guide to
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Excruciatingly Correct Behavior. But their individuals are getting married, the
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: wedding book.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: There's a third Miss Manners. Mister Manners. My brother and
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: they wrote a book on mind your business.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, Miss Manners, minds your business. Yeah, I just keep
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: turning them out.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I love it. You guys are so cool.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: This is Judith Martin and her lovely daughter Being and Martin,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Miss Manners together. Thank you so much for joining us
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: today on I Smell Pop Culture. Please, everybody, you would
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: be so rude if you don't check out these books.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: If you don't read this column, that's me saying that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Not then that's me saying you're going to be rude.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, you guys, it's been the best.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Well, it was fun. Thank you you enjoyed so nice
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: to meet you.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Thanks hey everybody, and don't forget Follow us on Instagram
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: at I Am all In podcast and email us at
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com