Latest / Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann / #148 John Perkins / Understanding Iranian War / Leaders v People / Competition NOT Enemies

Transcript

#148 John Perkins / Understanding Iranian War / Leaders v People / Competition NOT Enemies · Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann

0:01
Welcome to another episode of Come Together.
0:15
John Perkins. Welcome back to the show.
0:17
It's such an honor to have you on.
0:18
It feels even a bigger on. I've Gone the second time the
0:20
first time because it means you enjoyed enough to come back, I
0:22
hope. It's good to be with you again,
0:25
Efrem. I was just going through our, I
0:30
was just listening back to our last podcast and I have to say
0:35
there was probably, I'd say 30 or 40% of the material that you
0:40
were saying in real time that got right past my head.
0:43
And then listening back to it. And I didn't realize the depth
0:47
of what you were saying at the time, including bringing up
0:51
references about Venezuela and Maduro, you know, months before
0:54
that happened, and talking a little bit about around Iran and
0:58
America's relationship to, you know, how, how, how they're
1:01
resentful naturally towards America and China.
1:04
We're talking about all that stuff months before all of it
1:08
really hit the news cycle. And I wasn't even necessarily
1:11
even prepared or educated enough to be aware that you were kind
1:14
of talking about the present and the future and the very near
1:18
future. So thank you for that in
1:21
advance. And I hope that we can kind of
1:22
use some of your wisdom today to help understand the world that
1:25
we're in now. Great welcome.
1:28
Yeah. So I, I would love to hear a
1:33
little bit please, if you don't mind actually about Iran.
1:35
Because I remember reading, one of the first things I read about
1:37
in your book was that in the Confessions of an Economic
1:41
Hitman that you had spent some time not only in Iran, but also
1:47
intimately getting to know various different leaders and
1:52
different religious leaders different.
1:55
And I don't really quite understand the culture as much
1:57
as I probably should, but you had a little bit more of a in
2:01
depth understanding. And so perhaps you can kind of
2:03
enlighten us as to what's going on from their perspective.
2:08
Yeah, well, during the 1970s, I, I spent a lot of time in Iran.
2:12
I had an office there and, you know, I, I, I never lived in
2:17
Iran, but I would spend a week, a month and I traveled all over
2:21
the country. You know, we had some, my
2:23
company had a couple of big, big projects there.
2:27
So, yeah. And I did get to know a lot of
2:30
the leaders. I was in the process of, of
2:33
convincing them to hire our companies to build big
2:37
infrastructure projects. You know, we, we were very, very
2:42
interested in keeping the Shah on our side.
2:45
This was during the Shah's regime.
2:47
And of course, he'd been put into power by the CIA and was
2:50
kept there pretty much by the CIA to a large degree.
2:53
I mean, he had his own amazing, awful, brutal Secret Service
2:57
SAVAK. But to a large degree, they were
2:59
trained by the CIA and supported by the CIA.
3:03
And, you know, our goal was to to to get the his oil and his
3:10
money from his oil. We didn't have to put him into
3:12
debt like we did a lot of the other countries.
3:14
My normal tool in many of these countries was to put them in
3:18
deep debt. You couldn't really put Iran
3:20
into debt. They had a lot of money.
3:21
They had oil. So the, the challenge was to get
3:24
them to be dependent on the United States and move further
3:27
and further away from the Soviet Union and communism and to
3:32
convince them that they needed our protection.
3:34
And also to convince them to use the money that they were making
3:37
off of, of, of petroleum petrodollars to hire our
3:41
corporations to essentially westernize Iran, you know, to
3:46
make it more dependent on our culture and our way of life and
3:50
our economy. Do you, do you think that they
3:54
were paying attention while we were aiding Afghanistan against
3:59
the Soviets, that were they paying attention and wondering
4:03
kind of who, who is a better country to work with, you know,
4:06
as a, you know, while that's all unraveling?
4:11
Well, I think when you say they, it's, that's a question.
4:14
But certainly the Shah and all of his immediate people, and you
4:19
know, he had a lot of, a lot of power amongst his people.
4:25
They, they, they owed their very existence as an administration
4:29
to the CIA, to the United States.
4:32
We'd gone in and, and a CIA agent named Kermit Roosevelt in
4:36
in the early 1950s had taken out Mossadegh, the the
4:42
democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, who had stood
4:46
up to British oil companies and other oil companies.
4:50
You know, we're going to nationalize you if you don't pay
4:52
your fair share of your profits to our people.
4:55
And the United States said in this CIA agent and and a bunch
4:59
of his buddies and they ended up form formulating A coup that
5:05
that overthrew Mossadegh and replaced him with a Shah.
5:08
So the Shah definitely, he had a lot of loyalty to us.
5:13
And yet he was a very clever dealer.
5:16
He he knew how to play us off and periodically with threatened
5:19
to turn more toward communism or you know, so.
5:22
So he, he kept us on. He kept us on our toes.
5:26
Yeah, he knew a buttons to push, I guess, which is, which is
5:30
something I think that by the way, the as far as Middle
5:32
Eastern countries are the businessmen there go.
5:35
They are, you know, I know from first hand experience from
5:38
dealing with people in Israel and, you know, in the Arab shook
5:41
and the Jewish shook or whatever it is that they are remarkable
5:45
students of human psychology when it comes to business and
5:48
negotiating. And they really, really are, are
5:51
so shrewd. I I think it's awesome, but I
5:54
could also see how it keeps us on our toes.
5:56
So the Shahs. So so the Shah is put in by the
5:59
CIA and the people are not too happy about that.
6:04
Right. Which kind of leads to the
6:05
premise of the movie Argo, even though I heard I I did an
6:08
interview with the gentleman that was send me a bunch of
6:11
documents about how that movie was whitewashed by the CIA to
6:15
make it look a lot better than those than you know, than the
6:18
actual conflict was. But what, what's happening now?
6:27
What, what, what, what is what is going on now that that
6:32
America and Israel are united in a war against them?
6:37
It's everyone has been preparing for what feels like this war for
6:41
40 years now almost. Hey everyone real quick.
6:44
If you're enjoying the show, click subscribe and rate the
6:47
show 5 stars helps a ton. Thanks so much.
6:50
And like it was almost a kind of question as to almost when it
6:53
was going to happen, if at all. What's going on exactly?
7:00
Well, I think up until now, up until the Trump administration,
7:04
a second term, the only country that really wanted war with Iran
7:08
was Israel, right? And I think the United States
7:10
was extremely resistant to that. Trump has bowed to Netanyahu in
7:15
so many ways. He seems to idolize him.
7:19
He, he just, you know, I think, I think to a large degree what's
7:21
going on now as a result of Trump's infatuation with
7:25
Netanyahu. And because up until now, I
7:30
think we've we've understood that fighting a war with Iran
7:34
is, is it's a no win situation globally.
7:40
What, what? What do we get out?
7:42
What? What could we get out of it?
7:43
Yeah, well, you're seeing that now.
7:45
The the only thing we can get out of it is Trump feeling like
7:48
he's, you know, super powerful, but he's likely to walk away
7:53
losing in many respects, But he'll never admit that.
7:55
So he he'll turn whatever happens into a victory for him
7:58
because that's, that's his style, you know, doesn't it
8:01
doesn't matter. He could fall if, you know, I
8:03
could just see if, if, if, if Trump fell flat on his face on
8:06
a, on the streets of New York, he'd, he'd, he'd put his hands
8:10
down and stand up and say, I own New York, I've taken New York.
8:15
So, so he's got this ability to, to, to convince himself.
8:19
I'm sure he's convinced in his own way that, that, that, that
8:21
he's right. So I, I think this war really
8:25
happened. I think the attack happened
8:27
because Trump was on a big high after taking out Maduro in
8:30
Venezuela and he said, well, if I can do it there like that, I
8:34
can do it in Iran. We'll just go in, we'll take out
8:37
the leadership and the people of Iran will rebel against, against
8:42
the supreme leader. Of course they didn't.
8:45
And, and I'm surprised. I'm, I'm sure the CIA and, and,
8:48
and a lot of the information he was getting told was telling him
8:51
that very thing, but he didn't, he didn't believe it.
8:54
He just, he just, he's on this high.
8:56
You know, he's, you said this huge what he saw as a success in
8:59
Venezuela. I don't see it as a success.
9:01
No, no, not at all. Then we'd get into that in a
9:04
minute. But you know, I think that it
9:07
was so predictable. There's a huge military base on
9:12
the Strait of Hormuz in Bandar Abbas.
9:15
I helped build that base. My company was one of the one of
9:18
the engineering firms that that built that base as a as a big
9:23
military base for Iran, But with the idea that U.S. troops would
9:28
be stationed there, there would be our military base to a large
9:31
degree and we would be able to shut down the Straits of Hormuz.
9:34
If one of the other Arab countries or oil rich countries
9:39
caused problems for us, if OPEC again caused problems for us as
9:43
it had in the early 70s with the oil embargo, we could shut down
9:46
the Straits of Hormuz. Well, it's exactly, it's exactly
9:51
what's happening. So unintended consequences.
9:54
But I spent a lot of time, you know, I spent time in, in, in,
9:57
in Vanderbas, which was I think it's the hottest place I've ever
10:00
been in my life. Not temperature wise because
10:03
Saudi Arabia was hotter, but Saudi Arabia is dry.
10:07
Bandra Abbas was, was very humid and humid, humid heat.
10:11
You feel a lot more than dry heat.
10:13
So it was, you know, it was a little small fishing village
10:17
when I first arrived there. And you know, we, we built it
10:21
into a, a, a, a, a major military base.
10:24
And today it's the, it's, it's pretty much the head of
10:27
operations for closing down the, the Strait of Hormuz.
10:31
It's not alone. And there's a lot of things
10:33
going on in Iran, but that's that's an important part of it,
10:36
which is very ironic. That is ironic when it was built
10:40
for it's hysterical actually. It was built.
10:43
It was built for, it was built for, for American, for American
10:47
troops to be stationed there originally when did and and it's
10:50
being run by the Iranians now. Is that was?
10:52
Is that what happened? Oh, yeah, that yeah, it's, it's,
10:56
yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's the key factor in the
10:59
Iran closing down the Strait of Hormuz.
11:02
When do we give? Up When do we pull our soldiers
11:04
out of there? Well, well, well, I don't, you
11:07
know, it was, it was more than putting a lot of soldiers boots
11:11
on the ground there. It was that we were supporting
11:14
the the the Iranian military. I see.
11:18
Putting equipment, equipment and missiles and so on, but prepared
11:22
if we would have needed to, to, to go in and put boots on the
11:25
ground. But you know, we never really
11:27
expected we would need to because Shah was our friend.
11:29
So if as long as we provided the equipment, the knowledge, if
11:33
OPEC came against us again and we'd, we'd ask Iran to be our
11:38
ally against, against OPEC and enclosed and closed out or
11:44
threatened to close down the straits.
11:45
Usually a threat was all that would be needed.
11:47
But the force of the the the the equipment, the technology was
11:51
all there, very sophisticated technology that would that would
11:54
enable that to happen. Do you?
12:00
Yeah. Oh man, this OK?
12:04
I, I would really love, I don't know what, how could, how could
12:11
this end well? What's a positive outcome?
12:13
And the reason why I'm asking this is because listening to our
12:16
last podcast again, the first half an hour was a little scary
12:19
and then the second-half an hour gave a lot of hope.
12:21
And you seem to have not someone that just points out problems,
12:25
but could potentially offer solutions.
12:27
What would be the best case scenario at the end of the day
12:29
over here for everyone? Well, I, I, I don't know, it's,
12:38
it's hard to imagine now. I think it's truly in Trump's
12:43
hands as to what the next step is.
12:46
And, and, and I don't know where he's going to go with this.
12:50
He, he just, you know, 1 moment he says that he's taken out all
12:53
the nuclear weapons back in last, last year.
12:57
And the next moment, he says he's sending in forces to take
13:00
out the nuclear weapons that he already took out.
13:02
Or it was the protesters which apparently were trying to help.
13:05
Or it was, you know, or it was oil.
13:07
And we don't. We don't really know what it was
13:08
about. Well, I think it was about Trump
13:11
like this before, you know, he's on this high after Venezuela.
13:15
And so what's the best result it you know, it's it depends on how
13:22
you look at it. If you were looking at it from
13:25
the Israeli side or, or probably from Trump's side, you'd say
13:30
that you're going to replace the current government with a
13:32
government that really favors you.
13:35
If you were looking at it from the side of many of the Iranian
13:37
people, you would say you, you want to have open elections and
13:41
you want to elect someone who's, who's a, who's an Iranian
13:44
nationalist, who, who, who wants to take care of Iran and, and is
13:47
going to, you know, you know, going to going to continue to be
13:52
good friends with China as well as the United States.
13:56
Yeah. So whose, whose side are we
13:58
looking at? But in in any of those cases,
14:01
it's going to be very, very difficult to make any of that
14:04
happen because, you know, Iran is on top of the fact that it's
14:09
run by a, you know, well, we don't know who's running it
14:12
right now, but what? We do is crazy.
14:14
Well, we do know that there's a real system in place.
14:17
It isn't dependent on a, on a supreme leader.
14:20
You can take him out and he'll be replaced by somebody else.
14:23
They, they really have a system and, and the Iranians throughout
14:26
history have been extremely clever, extremely smart and
14:30
extremely strategic throughout history.
14:34
It doesn't matter whether you had a, you had a king, a Shah or
14:39
for a short period of time of democratically elected
14:41
president. They are a very strategic
14:44
people. They're very proud people that
14:46
have a long, long history of the amazing culture and of, you
14:51
know, Alexander the Great, who at one point dominated much of
14:54
the world. He wasn't actually Iranian, but
14:57
he operated out of Iran to live degree.
15:00
So how do you bring something like that to an end?
15:05
It's it's very, very difficult to see where this is going to
15:08
go. I think we can only hope that
15:12
very quickly Trump will give in and, and whatever way he needs
15:17
to and at the same time, hopefully get some concessions
15:22
for a great more democratic approach there and a less brutal
15:26
approach. Because yes, the killing of
15:28
these protesters is terrible. And the government, you know, I,
15:31
I, I don't nobody, I don't shed any tears.
15:33
I don't think anybody sheds any tears for the loss of the, of
15:36
the supreme leader that was killed in the first attack.
15:40
No, he's, it was, he was a brutal man.
15:42
And the, you know, the country doesn't doesn't need that,
15:45
doesn't want that the, the, the, the massacre of protesters was
15:50
outrageous and horrible. So how do we get a concession
15:54
that nothing like that is ever going to happen again?
15:57
And do you know, and we may insist that that we go back to
16:00
something like the old Iran and US nuclear treaty, is that Trump
16:05
broke back during his first term and that treaty was working very
16:09
well. It was monitored by
16:11
International Atomic Energy Agency.
16:14
It seemed to be working very well.
16:16
I don't know why that ended, but I thought that.
16:19
I'm sorry, I also heard that the Ayatollah had a religious degree
16:23
of fatwa against developing a nuclear weapon.
16:26
Is that true? I, I don't know whether that's
16:28
true or not, but I do believe that they that, that, that Iran
16:31
has clearly stated in the past that that is not their desire.
16:35
And who knows, But there was a treaty and it was it was
16:42
supervised by an international force who, who concluded that
16:46
Iran was not developing a nuclear weapon program, that it
16:51
was developing a domestic nuclear energy program, which is
16:56
quite acceptable. And we do the same thing.
16:58
Many countries are doing that, whether you like nuclear or not.
17:01
It's it's it's a very different matter.
17:05
So, you know, you having destroyed that treaty in his
17:10
first term, now it looks like that's what Trump wants to do.
17:13
That would be the best thing we can achieve now is to return to
17:16
something like that kind of a treaty that also offers
17:20
protection to the Iranian people against the kind of brutality
17:23
that we've seen in the in recent years.
17:26
Yeah, Yeah. As long as we're willing, as
17:27
long as we're actually going to hold up our end of that promise,
17:30
right. And.
17:30
Well, that's that's the other factor.
17:32
How can Iran trust? I how I wouldn't.
17:36
No, it's very hard for the leader of any country to trust
17:40
the United States today because we, we waver, we change our
17:44
policies, we don't honor agreements that we make.
17:46
So that's, that's a very, that's another very, very powerful
17:50
factor in all of this. How How do how do you move
17:53
forward when you have a president that nobody trusts or
17:57
believes? Yeah, yeah.
17:59
I am going to hopefully try to put a hopeful twist on this, I
18:03
think. But the first thing I want to
18:05
ask is so I, I, I imagine the speculation has been, I've been
18:09
listening, I've been hearing online is that Iran's going to
18:13
need or Iran is, is now even more determined to get a nuke
18:17
just to be left alone. Similar to North Korea in the
18:21
sense that, hey, we have this, it's we basically going to use
18:25
it as deterrence to, you know, stop bullying us.
18:27
Stop pushing us around. Let us do our own thing.
18:29
Israel's not going to stand, of course, for, you know, if that
18:32
were to happen, I don't know how much of A say or choice they'd
18:34
have on it depending on, you know, who's leading and what's
18:37
what, what exactly is going on in the world at that point.
18:39
But IA lot of a lot of other countries are looking around and
18:43
seeing this and saying, hey, we going to, we need to develop our
18:46
own nuclear programs too, including Poland, right?
18:48
Just just to be able to just say leave us alone.
18:51
And and this is actually, you know, Israel is so determined to
18:56
to stop Iran from having a nuke that they're going to get the
18:59
rest of the world to be interested in developing,
19:01
developing them just to be left alone.
19:04
That's a possible outcome. And you do have to wonder what,
19:06
what, what? Why did the United States if if
19:10
the justification was to get nukes out of Iran, and why not
19:13
do it in North Korea? Why not do it in Pakistan?
19:17
You know who? Who?
19:18
Do they already have it? Yeah, but destroy it.
19:22
That's true. They haven't.
19:24
But you know, you, you, you just got to ask yourself like where,
19:27
where does all of this end? And oh, well, we don't trust the
19:32
Iranian leadership. They're they're they're they're
19:35
they're not trustable. Well, is our own leadership
19:37
trustable? And we have the most nuclear
19:39
weapons. Do you really, do you really
19:40
trust that if if you're another country?
19:44
So. So these are, you know,
19:48
difficult times and difficult questions.
19:50
And, and it's it's unfortunate that we do have nuclear weapons,
19:54
but we do have them. And as you say, the motivation
19:57
is there for everybody to develop them at this point just
20:00
to be to, to, to convince everybody else to keep their
20:03
hands off off of off of you. Yeah, yeah.
20:07
And I think that this is I think that we're almost at some kind
20:13
of climax point where the world is going to determine whether or
20:17
not we're going to ultimately become what you call a life
20:19
economy or not. Right now is what it feels like
20:22
to me at least, you know, when I'm watching this current events
20:25
and you're watching the, the, the, the, the, the line between
20:30
the leadership and the people becoming so, so clear.
20:34
It's, it's, it's so blatant and it's so in, in everyone's faces.
20:39
You know, I mean, Trump runs on, on, on not going to war on
20:42
economy, on, on, on Epstein files on, on everything that,
20:46
you know, that he's talking about, that he, that he's gone
20:48
back on. And 350 million of the loudest
20:51
and most obnoxious people on the planet sometimes are saying,
20:54
Hey, we're not happy, you know, about this.
20:57
And the same thing is happening in Israel and the same thing is
20:59
happening around the world. And it almost feel, and you
21:04
know, in the way that I've heard it described was instead of it
21:07
being left and right on the same plane, it's up, it's top and
21:09
bottom, it's up and down. And the death economy, as in
21:15
short term gains at pretty much all other expense or all other
21:19
cost is we don't like that it's getting rejected.
21:25
And, and you almost feel like there's like a human, like a for
21:28
humanity, There's a, there's a anti, there's A, and there's a
21:32
resistance, like a viral type of resistance to this that I feel
21:35
like is starting to take place. Well, that could be the good
21:39
news. Yeah.
21:41
Yeah, you know, I I have a new book coming out.
21:44
It's it's, you can buy it pre-order now online or anywhere
21:50
book called the Art of the Steel, Trump and the economic
21:55
Hitman Presidency. And it's not about Trump.
21:59
I love he's certainly in it a lot, but it is about a new form
22:03
of presidency that he has brought into power.
22:05
And I and I think it's going to always going to impact the US
22:08
presidency from here on out. I'm not sure how that will go,
22:12
but what we've seen is a watershed moment through so
22:17
throughout my lifetime, since the end of World War 2, every
22:21
U.S. President has used economic
22:23
hitman, but this is the first president to actually be one and
22:28
the Jack and the Jackal at the same time.
22:31
And you know, it's and and to be totally overt about it.
22:34
So things that were kept in in secret before that were
22:37
clandestine are now out in the open and including including
22:41
horrendous corruption. I mean, this president is making
22:44
a fortune off off his position, his.
22:46
Family, everything crazy? Yeah.
22:49
Yeah. And, and, you know, most
22:50
presidents have ended up doing well as a result of being
22:52
president. And it doesn't necessarily
22:54
necessarily involve corruption. It can involve a lot of book
22:57
sales and speaking engagements and which is a little bit.
23:00
Diluted, which is diluted version of that I guess.
23:03
Yeah. But but now we have the
23:05
situation and recently there's been these accusations that he's
23:08
involved in insider trading, you know, when he the tremendous
23:12
amounts of of stock are are bought and sold to, you know, a
23:16
few minutes before he makes a major announcement.
23:19
Anyway, whatever, it's out in the open and in writing this
23:23
book, it's been it's been, you know, I've gone into a lot of
23:28
detail. It's so it's so easy to forget
23:32
what he did in his first term or even what he did in 2025.
23:38
You know, it's it's because things are happening so fast and
23:42
as they go through and you look at all the things that have
23:45
happened. I mean, one thing you got to say
23:47
about Trump is, is he's done a lot.
23:50
Of course, he all he had to do was make speeches and and sign
23:53
papers because the whole plan was already outlined for him in
23:57
Project 2025. So he didn't really have to
23:59
think about it. He just could shoot from the hip
24:00
and as he does. But yes, here we are.
24:04
We're being hit by a 2 by 4 all over the world by this rise of
24:09
right wing autocratic dictators, whether it's China or or or or
24:15
or or or Israel or Russia or the United States.
24:20
All the main powers. All the main powers.
24:23
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and as you say,
24:26
hopefully people are waking up to this and I think they, I
24:30
think they are that's, that's like you.
24:33
I have a lot of hope that this is a catalyst that we, we need.
24:37
So I hope that the outcome of this will be that Trump is, is
24:43
making Americans look at the world or look at ourselves the
24:46
way the world has looked at us for some time.
24:49
The way the people I've worked with in Latin America, the
24:52
people of Africa and many other parts of the world who have seen
24:55
the United States before, not as a promoter of democracy, but as
24:59
a as a defender of any regime that happens to be in power that
25:04
plays along with the big international corporations and
25:07
American policy. And hopefully we're we're going
25:11
to see ourselves in that same light and do something about it
25:14
here in the United States and that will provide a model for
25:19
other countries to use. Israel certainly needs something
25:22
similar. So Russia is going through
25:26
through very, very similar types of situations where one man is
25:31
in so much control and so dogmatic and also at least was
25:37
part of the population and extremely charismatic that he's
25:41
able to get away with whatever he wants, basically.
25:45
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I, I feel personally that that Bebe
25:50
and the entire lobby that is currently in America basically
25:55
just put all the political and financial power behind making
26:00
the war happen right now. Because they know that once
26:02
Trump loses the midterms and America's relationship with
26:05
Israel has deteriorated to the point that it's going to take a
26:08
couple of generations to fix that.
26:10
BB knows that if this didn't happen this minute, I don't even
26:12
care whether there's a game plan or not, it's not going to happen
26:14
for another 10 years. And I'm not letting them.
26:16
I'm not going down, you know, in history for my life as the the
26:20
longest any Prime Minister of Israel as not that guy, you
26:23
know, and I'm and and, and, and so I think that he just said,
26:27
you know, whatever we have left pedal to the metal, burn the
26:30
rest of the gas out and, and, and if we can do it, great.
26:33
And if not, then like at least at least he tried and I and
26:38
that's what that's what I think happened.
26:40
I because I because Trump has been almost allergic or
26:44
resistant to the idea of saying that.
26:45
And you and like, you know, like you said, he probably was riding
26:48
a high from Venezuela, but his base was very, very loud about
26:52
not wanting this war. And, and it's, it's interesting
26:57
he know he has to know unless he unless it's his whole staff, the
27:01
significance of, for example, the podcast world that the top
27:04
five podcasts that get, you know, dozens of millions of
27:08
views, you know, on a on a daily or regular basis, the top five
27:12
are all vehemently against it. And they're the ones that were
27:14
supporting him and helped get him, you know, elected to begin
27:16
with. And so to be so I, I have a hard
27:20
time believing that he's so off the pulse and so blindsided.
27:23
It's possible that he is, but I think that there was just an
27:26
enormous push that was just systematic that kind of just
27:29
forced this to happen now. Yeah, yeah.
27:32
No, I think you're, you're right.
27:34
I think that Netanyahu had, you know, like you said, he saw this
27:38
as as the as the window being finally opening and this is an
27:42
opportunity and we'll see what happens.
27:44
But yeah, I agree with you. So can you explain why you don't
27:48
think Venezuela was successful? Because everyone kind of talks
27:52
about it like it is. And I was, you know, I mean, I
27:54
was originally a little hesitant about it.
27:56
And then and then I felt like, hey, well, no Americans got
27:59
killed as far as I know in, in that in that mission.
28:02
And there weren't a lot of damage to American, you know,
28:06
infrastructure or anything like that.
28:08
And it seems like it was pretty quick and clean.
28:10
Why do you think it wasn't as successful as Trump would like
28:13
or his administration would like to make it seem?
28:16
Well, you can't say that no Venezuelans were killed.
28:19
Well, you can't say that. Yeah, I mean, really, you,
28:23
you're only worried about the Americans going in.
28:25
You know, that's, that's I, I think it's, I'm glad no
28:29
Americans were killed, but I'm sorry about the, the many, the
28:32
dozens of Venezuelans were killed, not just Maduro.
28:35
I'm not sad about Maduro going out at all.
28:37
I he was a terrible leader and it's good to get rid of him.
28:39
But we didn't get rid of his administration.
28:42
You know, his vice president is running the country now.
28:45
We didn't bring in the opposition people who won.
28:47
One of them won a Nobel Prize. Really.
28:51
Yeah. For what?
28:53
In what rather is he a scientist?
28:55
Businessman. Peace.
28:56
The Peace Prize was was was was run by the woman.
29:00
I can't. Figure oh, right, right, right,
29:01
right. The one that wanted that Trump
29:03
wanted her wanted wanted a Peace Prize for her, right?
29:05
Yeah, she, she gave him the Peace Prize.
29:08
And yeah, she's the opposition leader.
29:12
Why isn't she, Why isn't she out there now and in power?
29:16
And so I don't know what we accomplished other than killing,
29:20
other than imprisoning a former, the president who was the
29:24
president and his wife. So they're, they're imprisoned
29:26
in the United States now, but what else has happened?
29:30
And, you know, are we going to get oil from that country?
29:33
Well, the, the oil companies, the CEO of Exxon said, I'm not
29:36
going in there. It's too unstable.
29:38
I don't know what's going to happen next.
29:39
And we don't have the oil infrastructure.
29:42
So, so, you know, and plus we don't need the oil.
29:46
We with we're the biggest oil producer in the world.
29:48
We're exporting oil, plus we really ought to be getting off
29:52
fossil fuels all together. So what have we accomplished in
29:56
Venezuela other than to scare the hell out of every other
29:59
country in Latin America, other than to piss them off and scare
30:03
the hell out? I mean, I just came back from
30:05
Ecuador a couple of months ago and it no again, like everybody
30:11
in Latin America that I know is happy that Maduro's gone, but
30:15
they're not happy about the way it happened.
30:17
It was invasion, a large military force within and took
30:21
out one man and his wife and killed a lot of innocent
30:25
civilians in the process. So why?
30:29
What's the point? What do we accomplish?
30:32
There's no backup plan. There's no follow through plan.
30:35
It was it was a show of force. Plus the American taxpayers have
30:39
paid a horrible price for that. And the fact that this huge Navy
30:43
fleet is still right off there in the Caribbean, and that
30:46
scares the hell out of all of Central America, Colombia, all
30:50
the countries that border the Caribbean.
30:52
Plus, you know, that fleet can reach Argentina and Peru and
30:57
Ecuador and Brazil also. So it's, to me, it's a debacle.
31:03
Yeah. And it and and it is making a
31:05
lot of enemies for us. It's it feels like Trump is is
31:10
doing to geopolitics like what he did to the American political
31:13
system, which is basically just say, listen, I know we have all
31:16
these precedents, but I'm just going to do what I feel like
31:18
right now and I'm going to get this done with.
31:19
And, you know, a lot of people were taken with that kind of
31:23
erasiveness and rawness. And I think that, you know, he's
31:27
trying to, and I think that if, if, you know, if it works in one
31:30
sense, he's probably going to try to replicate that in the
31:32
other sense. But I, I mean, I, I keep on
31:35
calling it a kidnapping and everyone's like, it's not a
31:37
kidnapping. There's an operation.
31:38
I'm like, I don't know, it feels like a kidnapping to me.
31:40
I mean like, like it was illegal.
31:41
I'm like, by whose standards, dude?
31:43
And it's another country. I wait, what are you talking
31:45
about? But I, I have heard and what
31:47
some of the defense would be that, and I'm sure you have a
31:51
response to this, but that it's really to cut off potential
31:54
energy from China. And that's why it's Venezuela
31:56
and Iran, because China buys an enormous amount of oil and, and
32:00
relies on them for energy. And by threatening to kind of
32:03
cut off their energy, this would potentially hold back them
32:08
trying to take Taiwan and, and, and be a little bit less secure
32:13
in the economic game. But I've also heard that
32:18
Venezuela's oil apparently is requires an enormous amount of
32:21
refining and, and I don't know that they do that there.
32:24
And so I don't know how much is actually making a difference at
32:27
this point. Well, what one thing it's
32:30
definitely doing is, is, is forcing China to become much
32:34
more technologically advanced in, in alternative energy.
32:39
You know, at the moment China is also building coal plants, but
32:42
they, they are, they are the number one producer of solar and
32:45
wind machines. And, and, and, and developing
32:47
that kind of power and, and the, these threats against oil for
32:51
them is going to push them more and more into taking a much
32:55
greater leadership role in, in alternative energy.
32:58
I think probably Xi Jinping is, is, is very happy with what
33:03
Trump is doing. You know, and yes, it may, it
33:06
may create some short term problems in terms of oil supply.
33:10
And certainly the Straits of Hormuz have done that a lot of
33:13
that, you know, but but but in fact, you know, China is is
33:19
extremely resilient and smart and you know, they're going to
33:23
work a lot harder on developing alternatives.
33:25
So they will not be dependent on the outside world for their
33:28
energy sources. This is going to really drive
33:31
them forward with with that. I think all of what's going on
33:34
in the world right now is taking the United States down and
33:38
bringing and bringing China up. I think China's being helped by
33:42
all of these situations in the long run, In the short run, it
33:45
puts China in an awkward position.
33:47
It creates some internal problems as well as external
33:50
problems. But you know, China always
33:52
thinks in the long term, unlike the United States, China is a
33:55
very, very long term oriented. You know, they develop five year
33:59
plans and 25 year plans and, and, and they mean, and that
34:03
means a lot to them. They're they're a very long,
34:05
Longview oriented administrations, unlike the
34:09
United States. Yeah, yeah, I I agree.
34:15
I think, and I guess the only thing that people that Americans
34:20
would hope for is that it puts them in more than just an
34:23
uncomfortable position at the present moment.
34:24
It puts them in a perilous position that doesn't allow them
34:27
to get to that 25 or 50 year plan or whatever it is.
34:30
But I don't know if that's something that I would bet on or
34:32
I don't know if I'd bet on China not, you know, accomplishing
34:35
their long term goals. I don't know.
34:37
They they seem pretty proficient to me.
34:41
Well, I think we, we want China to accomplish its long term
34:44
goals too. We want to stable China.
34:47
And there's every reason to want to have a, a healthy competition
34:52
with China, but not see them as an enemy.
34:54
They're not an enemy. You know, they're, they're,
34:56
they're people. I, I, I taught at a Business
34:59
School there in Shanghai and I was deeply, deeply impressed by
35:03
the Chinese students and their desire to create a better world
35:07
for their children and grandchildren.
35:08
You know, they told me like we've lived through horrible
35:11
pollution, you and the United States don't know what pollution
35:13
is compared to us. We through horrible pollution
35:17
and and very difficult social situations too.
35:20
And we created a miracle economically, but we at a, at a
35:24
huge price environmentally and socially.
35:27
But we, the future generation, we don't want our kids to grow
35:31
up like that. We're going to turn this around.
35:33
We're going to create an environmental and social
35:35
miracle. And I think they're working on
35:37
it. I, I think that's, I think
35:39
that's a real sincere desire on the part of of many who are
35:44
coming up in the next generation in China.
35:47
And it would behoove the United States to see China as a as a
35:52
very serious competitor, yes, but not as an enemy has never
35:58
been colonialistic. It, it, it, it doesn't send
36:02
armies out around the world. It, it hasn't been thousands,
36:05
hundreds of thousands of years. And, you know, it may threaten
36:10
Taiwan, but it sees Taiwan as part of China, just like, you
36:14
know, we we took over Texas and that kind of thing.
36:17
We we have Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands and so on.
36:23
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the same sort of
36:26
thing. So, but, but China has, doesn't
36:28
have, have have military bases in Latin America or, or, or
36:33
Africa, conceivably has two in Africa, but they're not really
36:38
military bases. They're more resupply bases.
36:41
It just doesn't. And while the United States has
36:43
military presence in well over 100 countries, the world doesn't
36:48
like that. Nobody likes to be occupied by a
36:50
foreign force. And except maybe the maybe the
36:53
dictatorial leaders that they're happy to have the but people
36:56
don't. We didn't when the British were
36:59
here in the United States occupying Boston.
37:02
So, you know, I would. This is really playing into
37:05
China's hands. And China has always expanded
37:09
its its influence through trade and it's done that extremely,
37:12
extremely effectively. I don't know the last time we
37:17
were on this program that. Yeah, it was.
37:20
Yeah, you showed me and I did an awesome episode follow up with
37:24
with a gentleman named Padre out of out of Trinity University in
37:28
Dublin. And he and I talked about
37:30
bricks. And I was the first time I heard
37:31
the term bricks, you know? And I was like, holy cow, this
37:34
is a legitimate threat to America too, that no one see
37:36
that that American. I haven't even heard come up in
37:39
American media ever. Like, how does it even happen?
37:42
We're still not a threat. It's not a threat on America.
37:44
America should be part of bricks.
37:46
Well, right. But with our attitude, it's a
37:48
threat with our current attitude about.
37:50
Many world. Dominators is a.
37:52
Threat. Many European countries have
37:54
joined Bricks. We should join Bricks yes.
37:57
And we, you know, it was originally started as, as
38:00
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Bricks BRICS.
38:08
And but now it didn't it, it includes a lot of countries,
38:13
including European countries. It's it's an international
38:16
trading organization. And it may have been started by
38:19
China and it may still be strongly influenced by China,
38:23
but it's basically an international trading
38:27
organization. And as this is the kind of the
38:31
new Silk Road and you know, for the United States to see these
38:35
things constantly as threats puts us in the position of the,
38:39
you know, it's win, win. It's, it's win, win, lose.
38:42
You know, we, we really should be looking at these things as as
38:45
win, win. We we should want China to do
38:49
well because then they're not going to be a threat.
38:52
I agree. I agree.
38:55
I. Agree.
38:55
We're not. We're not talking about the old
38:57
Soviet Union. China's not the old Soviet
39:00
Union. It's a very, very, very
39:02
different situation, very different ideology, very
39:05
different approach to life. It's based on trade, it's not
39:10
based on militarism. And of course China's increasing
39:12
its own military forces because it feels it has to defend
39:15
itself. But still it's it's way of
39:18
expanding its influence in the world has been through trade,
39:21
which now it's the number one trading partner was almost 80%
39:24
of the world's countries. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:28
I, I kind of, I wonder what's going to happen when America,
39:36
because I think that right now a lot of countries look in America
39:38
very differently than America looks at itself.
39:40
That's probably been the case for many probably since World
39:43
War 2, I imagine actually. But I wonder what happens when
39:47
America realizes it looks, starts to look at itself like
39:49
the other countries do. And we learn and we grow a sense
39:52
of humility and a sense of collaboration because we feel
39:56
like we have. I, I feel like the reason why we
39:59
don't collaborate now is because you feel like we don't have to.
40:01
You know, we're strong enough, we're big enough, we're bully
40:03
enough, you know, like Trump and Biden and all the presidents
40:06
would always say like we could go to or anyone you want for as
40:09
long as you want to do whatever you want.
40:11
And then when we do grow that sense of humility, I'm very
40:15
curious how that's going to affect our relationship with
40:19
other people and the way that like, I think that when people
40:24
are finally held. People are finally held
40:26
accountable for their own actions.
40:28
And I think that this is actually going to be brought on
40:30
by the whole Epstein list being start or Epstein file case
40:34
starting to be opened up a little bit.
40:37
The world that the people are not letting up on that you know,
40:39
they're they're going to be consequences to actions.
40:42
I hope. I think people's heads are going
40:44
to roll and then it's going to force us to kind of evolve as
40:47
the way that we understand ourselves and the rest of the
40:49
world and the way that we could be in the future.
40:53
Well, yeah, I hope you're right. You know, I hope that we will.
40:57
I hope we are being humbled by all of this.
41:00
I feel humbled. Yeah.
41:03
Yeah. How you do.
41:04
But there's still a lot of manga people out there that don't.
41:08
And, and, and I, you know, you could say what we've been, what
41:13
we have up until now is, is extreme hubris as you defined
41:18
it. And when I mentioned being hit
41:21
by a 2 by 4, that's what I, that's what I mean.
41:23
I think Trump, we can hopefully Trump would be the greatest gift
41:26
we've, we've ever had because he'll be a capitalist that'll
41:29
help us see ourselves the way much of the rest of the world
41:31
sees us and the way we ought to be looking at ourselves.
41:34
You know, I'm a very, very staunch US patriot.
41:38
My family fought in the Revolutionary War.
41:41
I go back a long time in this country and, and I grew up very
41:46
much with a sense of extreme patriotism, but I also grew up
41:49
with the with the knowledge that a good patriot in a democracy
41:57
criticizes the democracy and democracy depends on self
42:02
criticism. It's like if you really want to
42:04
be a better person, you've got to look at your faults and, and
42:08
so you can correct them and you can't correct them until you
42:11
look at them. So I've always, I've seen my job
42:14
as being, you know, pointing out some of the faults, but also the
42:18
way these faults can lead to opportunities.
42:20
But we have to be more self critical.
42:22
And we haven't been, as you said, we've, we've sort of
42:25
assumed that we are the defender of democracy around the world,
42:28
despite the fact that we've supported a lot of brutal
42:31
dictators like Pinochet and, and Chile and, and, and, and, you
42:38
know, Saudi Arabia, my God, you know, and so, and the Shah of
42:42
Iran, you know, he was a, a brutal dictator and, and so on
42:46
and so forth. So we're, we're not a defender
42:48
of democracy. We're defender of what I call
42:51
predatory capitalism. Capitalism that's run by big
42:54
international of corporations that will do anything they can
42:57
to get rid of their competitors, which now is the philosophy that
43:01
we are using. And looking at China the same
43:03
the same way that that so many big corporations look at anyone
43:07
that comes along and seems to threaten their market share.
43:10
They go after them hog. They don't they don't look at
43:13
well listen, maybe if I cooperated with them, we'd all
43:18
if competition is good, everybody gets better in
43:21
competition. I'm often reminded of when I, I
43:24
was in school, I played tennis and I was, I was always #2 and
43:28
the other way to be #1 was to beat #1 and I was never very
43:32
successful at that. But I'd play him as frequently
43:34
as a coach would let me to try to take his position.
43:37
And every time I played him, we both got better.
43:40
Yeah. And then we played on the same
43:43
team as double s against other schools.
43:47
And because we'd each gotten better playing against each
43:50
other, we now we're a better team against the other schools.
43:53
So competition can do that for you.
43:55
It sharpens you, it makes you better at what you do.
43:59
And if you're not, if you don't, if you don't get better at what
44:02
you do, then you're out. And, and, and that's true
44:05
capitalism, the old, not, not predatory, but that you know,
44:09
that, you know, the, the capitalism is, you know, my
44:13
grandson's when he was little lemonade stand.
44:17
You know, if the guy over there had better lemonade than he did,
44:21
then he's going to go out of business.
44:22
But if he could make lemonade, then this guy put a little more
44:25
sugar in it or whatever, then that guy would go out of
44:28
business. And that's, that's the, the, the
44:31
nature of, of, of, of true capitalism.
44:36
The other possibility would be that the two of them kind of
44:39
come together and kind of maybe spread out with their lemonade
44:43
stand. So he's here and this guy that
44:45
maybe one of them takes it on the road.
44:47
You don't just sell it as we go over to that part of town, you
44:51
know, so we can work together. And that's, that's where the
44:54
harmony and and that's where we need to go today is working
44:58
together. How can China and the United
45:00
States work together to get rid of pollution in the world?
45:04
We are together. We could we create more than
45:06
40%, almost 50% of the world's pollution as well as as 50% of
45:12
almost 50% of the world's GDP. So how do you know if we can't
45:16
come together to solve these problems?
45:19
China and the United States working together, I don't think
45:24
there's much hope for humanity. Well, I think there is because
45:30
the people that are saying that we're the enemies are becoming,
45:34
well we're enemies with one another becoming less and less
45:37
credible every day. And I actually.
45:38
Well, that's, that's what I'm saying that if, if we can work
45:41
together, if we can work together, then there is hope for
45:45
humanity. So that actually.
45:46
Brings Yeah, totally. So I I had an observation.
45:48
I recorded a solo episode on Saturday night.
45:51
I had a lot of thoughts on my mind about Israel and the
45:53
current, you know, the war and the state that that that the
45:57
country and the people and Jews around the world are in.
46:00
And one thing that I noticed that I was talking about is at
46:06
least from an American perspective, and all this is,
46:09
and it's different about the societies.
46:11
Israel happens to be a very hands on society because life is
46:16
constantly a little bit chaotic. And so it always requires direct
46:19
intervention. Sometimes, you know, either
46:21
physical or with, let's say with negotiating, right, like, I mean
46:27
like again, like nothing is almost like there's no set rules
46:29
in business in, in, in in a lot of these countries, you walk
46:32
into the store and you know, sometimes it's a big
46:34
corporation, but most of the time you walk into a mom and pop
46:37
shop where someone's like this is 50 shackle and I say, can I
46:39
give you 35 for it though? Yeah, take a go, you know, take
46:41
it if you're going to do it right now.
46:43
Otherwise, if you come back tomorrow, forget about it, you
46:45
know, And then I noticed in America that, and I'm sure that
46:50
social media has a lot to do with this.
46:52
I'm sure that the technology that we have in the, in the
46:54
world that we've kind of put ourselves in right now has to do
46:58
with this. But we're everyone's very
47:01
passive. I've noticed or that at least
47:02
the young generation is extremely passive.
47:04
People are afraid to to if they see something going on to say
47:08
anything. There's a tremendous sense of
47:10
this bystander effect that like we we all know, we all notice
47:14
that there's a problem, but we're all kind of afraid to do
47:16
something about it because they're supposed to be an
47:18
authority that that does something for it for us, you
47:21
know, and that's kind of how we've always.
47:23
I think that's, I think that's one of the potential downsides
47:27
of being so comfortable and so wealthy and so protected is, you
47:31
know, especially geographically by two enormous oceans and
47:34
having neighbors like Canada and Mexico that, you know, I mean,
47:38
talk about Mexico separately. But overall, we don't have wars
47:41
with them. We don't fight with them in the
47:42
in that, in that kind of same sense that a lot of other
47:44
countries do. And I think that American people
47:47
have become passive in a way that we don't really know.
47:51
Like we all know that there's a problem.
47:52
We don't really know what we could even do about it.
47:55
And there's a lot of self censoring that's been going on,
47:59
you know, by myself included. And there's a lot of people that
48:02
are afraid to say the wrong thing because they do fear that
48:05
there's going to be repercussions and that their
48:07
lives could be ruined. So that is the only thing that
48:11
I've like that is to me is the final hurdle.
48:13
We're like right there and there's like a little bridge and
48:15
this is the final hurdle is to kind of get Americans to be a
48:18
little bit more proactive and interactive with their lives.
48:22
And then I think that an enormous amount of change could
48:24
emerge. They'll be this incredible
48:26
emerging quality of an American's feel like we're all
48:30
one country, one people, 11 conglomerate together that trust
48:35
one another and can rely on one another.
48:37
Rather than being this isolated bunch of little individuals that
48:41
are separated by their own social media bubbles or their
48:43
cell phone bubbles or their their air pods or whatever it is
48:45
that I think that has kind of torn us apart and kind of made
48:48
us passive. Yeah, no, I I agree with you.
48:53
And I would like, yeah. And so I, I would hope that if
48:56
that, that, that's the last hurdle and that's what we need
48:58
to get past. And a lot of the young
49:00
generation has been rejecting a lot of what my generation
49:03
embraced. A lot of the young generation is
49:05
rejecting social media, is rejecting a typical life that
49:10
because we were told many, many times, you go to school, you go
49:13
to work, you put your head down, you, you know, you do the right
49:16
thing every single day and you'll be able to get a job,
49:18
you're able to get a house and a mortgage and a car and maybe go
49:20
on a vacation once a year. And that system has not, has,
49:24
hasn't worked for anyone younger than I would say 35 probably.
49:29
You know, I mean, I own a house and I'm practically drowning
49:32
under it. And, and I, and I know that I
49:34
constantly have to find other ways to, to, to make money
49:37
because I'm in trouble, you know, I'm in trouble otherwise.
49:43
And I think we're right there. I just, I, I, I hope that we
49:47
can, I hope the younger that this upcoming generation is more
49:51
religious, believes in God more, is more likely to hang out in
49:55
movie theaters. Like I, I, I know it sounds
49:57
crazy, but movie theaters our, our joint experience where
50:01
people are getting together and laughing together and crying
50:04
together. And you walk out of a movie
50:05
theater and you're just overcome with this incredible feeling of,
50:09
of like something has awakened in you that you haven't felt in
50:11
forever. Concerts.
50:12
I mean, you know, there's a musician I'm following Billy
50:15
Strings. And I mean, you can feel on the
50:18
recordings, even you can just watch him.
50:19
You can just watch it and you feel the, the presence and the
50:22
humanity that's there. So I think that I, I really,
50:25
really do believe there's a lot of hope.
50:27
Can we, I know we have 10 minutes left.
50:29
I would love to talk a little bit about the Amazon, a little
50:32
bit about I listened to recent podcast Gentleman Paul Rosalie,
50:37
who I'm sure you've heard of him before, maybe you've met him
50:39
before, and he mentioned that there are cartels that have been
50:42
trying to expand into the Amazon to increase their drug
50:45
production. Do you know anything about that?
50:48
Well, yeah, I've been I've been involved, not involved in the
50:52
cartels, but yeah, they have drug trafficking is having a
50:56
huge negative effect on particularly the Amazon areas of
51:00
Peru and Ecuador, Colombia and and some of Brazil.
51:04
But yeah, so, yeah, but yeah, I mean, that's a that's a that's a
51:09
whole that's another large topic.
51:11
And but, but I wanted to go back and address something else you
51:15
said here. And that, and that is, you know,
51:17
the, the, the book Art of the Steal ends with very, very
51:22
optimistic and, and outlined what we as individuals can each
51:27
do. Because I think you're, you're,
51:28
you're absolutely correct that people, we need to change
51:32
people's perception of what it means to be successful and happy
51:36
and prosperous. And so that's, that was one of
51:40
the reasons for writing this book is to, yes, to point out
51:43
what's wrong, but also to say you, you, you reader, you live
51:48
in a blessed time. You know, you're blessed, you're
51:51
blessed to be alive right now because the opportunities are
51:54
there. And you know, I, there's a whole
51:57
lot of suggestions of what people can do, But one, one of
52:01
the ones that I like best is to say that we can all, we all have
52:05
different skills and different desires and we can all move in
52:12
different paths as long as we head for the same destination of
52:15
the life economy. So the book outlines 5 different
52:19
questions we can each ask ourselves to move in in that
52:23
direction. And I don't know, what do we
52:25
have time? Do you want me to mention those
52:26
5 or have I please? Yeah, please, if you if you
52:29
don't mind, that'd be awesome. Yeah, the first one is what do I
52:32
most want to do for the rest of my life?
52:34
What would give me the greatest satisfaction?
52:36
For me, it's writing. I love to write.
52:38
And and for a friend of mine who's a Carpenter, it's working
52:41
with his hands and wood and the opposite end of the spectrum,
52:44
kind of. And the second question is how
52:47
do I do this in a way that'll help transform the deaf economy
52:50
to a life economy? And for me, it's, well, I'm
52:52
going to write about those things.
52:53
I want to. I'm going to write books that I
52:54
hope will inspire people to get involved in that, which is like
52:57
this most recent book does. And from my Carpenter friend is
53:01
I'm going to use sustainable materials and plant trees for
53:05
every tree that I that I use out.
53:07
And the third question is, well, what's stopping you?
53:10
What's holding you back? What's the voice you're hearing
53:12
that says you can't do it? And for and for the writer it
53:15
might be, well, I had an English teacher who gave me bad grades
53:18
and, and, and yeah, it convinced me that I wasn't a good writer.
53:22
And from my Carpenter friend of my theater say, well, my clients
53:25
don't want to pay an extra price for sustainable materials or for
53:30
me to plant trees. So the 4th question, then the
53:33
4th question is when I look at that problem, when I touch it,
53:38
rather than running from it, when I confront what's holding
53:41
me back, the obstacle, rather than ignoring it, denying it,
53:46
how do I change my perception? And so for me as a writer, I
53:50
would say, well, my English teacher would never publish
53:52
anything seriously. He, he was just an English
53:54
teacher. What did he know?
53:56
You know, and, and, and I'm a good writer.
53:59
I'll write, let's see what happens.
54:01
And for my Carpenter friend, it's, well, I'll tell my
54:03
investor, my, my clients that the extra price is not a cost,
54:08
it's an investment in the future.
54:10
And then the third question is, once you've changed your
54:12
perception, what actions do you take?
54:14
You know, you got to start writing and then and, and, and,
54:17
and building cabinets like this without, with, with sustainable
54:21
materials. So, you know, we can all ask
54:23
ourselves these five questions and it's very individual.
54:28
You know, you can be a podcast host, I can be a writer, my
54:32
friend can be a Carpenter, your friend can be a plumber, a
54:34
dentist, a parent, a student, whatever that we obviously
54:39
ourselves and if we all take our own paths, the paths that will
54:43
bring us the greatest bliss, the greatest satisfaction, we'll but
54:47
we head to that final destination of the life economy.
54:51
That is that that goal is long term benefits for all life and
54:56
not short term profits, short term materialism.
54:59
We need and not maximizing short term prices.
55:01
We need to make short term profits.
55:03
Businesses need to make short term profits, but they don't
55:06
need to maximize them. They can put them toward, you
55:08
know, a better future. They can put them toward paying
55:11
their employees. My grandson who's 18, has an
55:13
amazing company. He's extremely successful.
55:17
It's a window washing company. And he, you know, one of his
55:20
goals is he pays, he's got a bunch of guys working for him,
55:23
13 or 14 guys working for him. He pays them all really well.
55:27
These are kids in, in, in high school or college.
55:30
And you know, it's a great source of income for them.
55:33
But that's one of his goals, you know, and he also sees cleaning
55:37
windows as extending the life of the woodwork around the window.
55:40
So it's, it's, it's an environmental move too, to a
55:43
certain degree. So you know, this is we, we can
55:47
all move in that direction. What happens when you feel like
55:52
the things that are in your way are just so enormous and the
55:57
obstacles that are in your way are just so big?
56:00
For example, like me with the podcast, right, I'm starting
56:02
this and it happens to be that. Thank God.
56:04
I've learned a little bit of the virtue of patients throughout my
56:08
life. So I understand and and
56:10
thankfully the podcast is very little cost for me.
56:13
So for me, it's just time investment in something that I'm
56:16
passionate about. But there's a lot of, there's,
56:19
there, there are going to be, and there are, there have been a
56:22
lot of steps for me to overcome and a lot of hurdles and a lot
56:26
of things and, and, and, and, and there have been many times,
56:28
especially when I was first starting, I'm like, I don't even
56:31
know how I'm going to even get over this.
56:33
Like it just looks like there's a mountain over here.
56:35
What what? What do you do when when, When
56:37
it feels like that? Well, you did go over it well.
56:42
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trekking my way up.
56:44
I don't know if I'm over. No, the one you described is you
56:48
don't know how to start a podcast.
56:49
You've started with, you've got 1 going.
56:51
So what's the obstacle right now?
56:53
The obstacle, the obstacle right now is I guess it's reach, I
56:58
would imagine. OK, so why can't Why haven't you
57:01
reached more people? I don't know.
57:07
There you go, there's your blockage.
57:08
You don't know because there's some voice back there that's in
57:11
head. I suspect that's saying, well,
57:13
you're not really good enough. You don't know enough.
57:15
You don't know about bricks. You don't know enough to to
57:18
really get out there and, and, and get the word out there.
57:21
So you know you'll that, that, that voice.
57:24
So you don't know what the next step is, but look at what the
57:27
next step is. How have other part you
57:29
mentioned the five top podcasts. How did they get there?
57:32
How did they get there? What did they do?
57:34
How do you use TikTok? How do you use Facebook?
57:36
How do you use X? How do you use all these
57:38
different to to get your message out there more and more.
57:41
Be creative, open your mind, open up to the spirits, follow
57:44
you know, let the you know it's out there.
57:47
The information is there. You just got to go out and grab
57:51
it. And and so, you know, don't
57:54
listen to whatever little voice is in your head saying no, no,
57:57
no, you're not, you're not good enough.
57:59
You, you know, I don't know what the voices are for you, but some
58:02
parent or some teacher or some religious figure or somebody
58:05
saying, you know, don't do it, or maybe it's too dangerous.
58:10
Oh my God, you know, you might get in trouble.
58:13
Somebody might criticize you, you might get criticism.
58:16
You might be, you might be a failure, you might be a success.
58:19
And then what happens? And.
58:21
That's what I'm most afraid of. I don't.
58:22
I'm afraid of success for sure. I don't know what.
58:24
You go. I do not.
58:26
I almost don't want to find out. I'm really scared about that
58:28
actually. Yeah.
58:29
Well, you've got to confront that and and, and if you really
58:32
don't want to find out, then get out of the business.
58:35
No Of. Course, of course and do
58:37
something else, but if you want to find out then go deep into
58:40
it. How do you recommend I confront
58:43
it? You got to go into it like,
58:45
what? What about success are you
58:47
afraid of? What is it and what and who's
58:49
told you that? I'm afraid of the weight of the
58:53
responsibility of, of having other people think that what I
58:58
like, I don't, I think that my greatest value is to help other
59:02
people accomplish their best value.
59:04
So I don't want other people to take what I have to say for face
59:08
value. And I'm and I don't want to be,
59:12
I don't want people to accidentally think, hey, you
59:15
know, he's, he's doing, you know, he's telling me to do
59:18
this, I'm doing this. I wanted to I might, my goal is
59:21
much more to have other people here and say I want to be the
59:25
best myself that I could be. And he and you know, these are
59:28
great directions for me to do it.
59:30
So, but that line is very thin. You know, a lot of people will
59:34
take people that don't even don't want to be authorities.
59:36
Bob Dylan has a career of rejecting being, you know, any
59:40
kind of authority or any kind of hero and any kind of sense, and
59:44
that's all people insist on doing with him so.
59:47
I don't think, I don't think so. I think Bob Dylan has inspired
59:50
people to be themselves. I don't think, I don't think
59:54
he's inspired people to follow his route.
59:56
I don't see a lot of musicians going out and playing in the, in
1:00:00
the subways of New York to become another Bob Dylan.
1:00:03
There may be some, but I think he's inspired a lot more people.
1:00:06
I'm not a musician, but he's inspired me to be a better
1:00:09
writer because he was a brilliant writer.
1:00:10
You know, he won the Nobel, he won the Nobel Peace Prize as a
1:00:14
writer. So I see him as a great
1:00:16
inspiration for me to be better at at who I am.
1:00:19
And I think you did that well. And that's, that's the five
1:00:22
questions I ask people to ask. And you know, you might want to
1:00:25
say at the beginning of your program, I just want to make it
1:00:27
very clear that I'm not trying to influence you to be like me
1:00:30
or to follow my, my philosophy. I do have opinions.
1:00:34
But what I want to do in this show is, is open your mind to
1:00:38
follow your own opinions, to follow your own dream, to follow
1:00:40
your heart so you know you can overcome that obstacle.
1:00:44
I understand that. I see that as a, as a, as, as an
1:00:46
obstacle, but but you can do it in such a way.
1:00:49
And I know that all of my writings, people are going to
1:00:52
read them and I've asked them at the beginning, but most of my
1:00:55
books, I say, Hey, you know, read this in the way that'll
1:00:58
impact you. It's, it's, you know, it's
1:01:02
everybody reads it differently. So, you know, confront that,
1:01:07
look into it more. I've just touched on a few
1:01:09
things, but you need to go into what it is in you that's created
1:01:13
that fear. Who's told you that, that
1:01:16
whenever you speak out, you're going to be influencing other
1:01:19
people? Who's told you what?
1:01:21
Teacher said. Hey, Efrain, don't stop it.
1:01:24
You know, you're trying to influence the whole class and we
1:01:27
don't want that. We're we're trying to get to the
1:01:28
to the heart of the matter here. Not not your opinion.
1:01:32
I don't know. Anyway, yeah, until next time.
1:01:37
Until next time, John, this is so much fun.
1:01:39
Thank you so much. And it's a, it's really, it's a
1:01:43
pleasure. And again, I'm learning so much.
1:01:44
I'm sure, I'm sure I'll learn even more when I look, when I
1:01:46
listen back to this. Again, thank.
1:01:48
You don't be don't be afraid to to move forward.
1:01:52
I, I, I won't. I'm going to keep on going.
1:01:55
Thank you, John. Keep up your good work.