Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / Clinical Psychologist Dr Shefali on Conscious Parenting & Connection

Transcript

Clinical Psychologist Dr Shefali on Conscious Parenting & Connection · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, New York Times bestseller and one of Oprah's favorite parenting experts joins me to explore the complexity of children's anxiety, emotional fragility, or vulnerability in today's chaotic world.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to send the message that you are not alone.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the stats are real.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Nearly 60% of teen girls reported persistent sadness, the highest percentage ever recorded.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: One in three adolescents experience an anxiety disorder, but girls are nearly twice as likely as boys to be affected.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yet expectations and distractions for boys can also be disturbing.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Most parents feel overwhelmed, confused, and unsure of how to guide their children through screen pressure, social media, and constant stimulation.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The problem isn't that you don't care, it's that no one ever taught you how to parent consciously.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where Dr.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Shafali comes in.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: She's perfected a pre-phase method for raising empowered, emotionally resilient, and conscious children.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, something unprecedented is unfolding in the inner lives of our children.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: On the surface, they are achieving and adapting.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Beneath it, many are struggling to stay connected to themselves.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: As girls battle anxiety and perfectionism and self-doubt despite their achievement, while boys are navigating impossible mandates around masculinity, strength, and identity.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Both are growing up inside a digital culture that amplifies comparison, commodifies worth, and fractures authenticity.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Without conscious parenting, children internalize the noise.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: With conscious guidance, they return to themselves.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm thrilled to have Dr.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Shafali join us in the What I've Learned podcast studio.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very good.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And very excited to chat to you about all things parenting.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you've just been in Australia, which has been incredible.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of our listeners will be very excited who didn't get to actually see you in person.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: They'll get to hear your your words of wisdom, which is what this podcast is all about.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Dr.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Shafali, you've inspired a lot of people, from Pink, who sings your praises and thanks you for saving her, to Oprah, who raves about your skills.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that brought you to this critical space and how have you carved this very important trajectory, which is highlighting the challenge for parents?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that the wisdom of the message in conscious parenting is so palpable, it's so clear.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about a strategy, it's about deep transformation.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the core of my work.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Whether I'm working with women, couples, children, it's so deep that once parents do it, once humans do it, I work a lot with women and couples as well.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: They understand the depth of this message and they are irrevocably transformed.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what is calling people to this message.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so exciting to see.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've written these two new books.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether you've seen them, Raising Conscious Sons, Raising Conscious Daughters.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: These are my two latest books, but they're really about transformation and how we can best manage and cope in these very difficult times that we're in and evolve to the highest level possible.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, clearly there are a lot of people resonating your messaging.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Where did this all start for you?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, you know, there's a lot of academics, there's a lot of people working in the parenting space, but you seem to have tapped into something that's accessible and that people can resonate.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about where it all started for you and why you ended up on this pathway.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it started, you know, as a clinical psychologist, watching client after client, uh, trace everything back to childhood.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I began to understand deeply how our childhood affects us.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I became a mother myself, I saw how I was doing what my clients were telling me their parents did.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I saw it in real time.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that the reason we parents do it is because of our own unfulfilled fantasies and our own unmet needs and our own unhealed self.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But seeing myself do it, I was like, oh, I get it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I could just help the parent, I could help you.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can help the child.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, it makes so much sense.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I really saw it in myself, and that just opened me up.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I created and founded the movement of conscious parenting, and now I'm nine books in.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I but I just I don't only do it with women, I do it uh with children.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I also help women and couples as well, because it's the same principles, I just apply it differently, but it's so profound, it's so deep.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a coaching institute, I teach this now, all and there are coaches coming online, so many coaches from Australia who want to be better parents, who want to help parents be better parents.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just become this movement now.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's all over the place.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's not a new thing for parents to work on themselves.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But when I began teaching it in 2010, it was revolutionary.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was a new paradigm.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we Oprah was so shocked by it, but it seems so commonplace now because it has spread and it's so incredible to see that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: As a mother of three myself, and my children are older, but I so related to a lot of what you were.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen a lot of your work.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, I think it's so true that what we have trouble doing, and obviously it's a deep dive and it requires enormous processes and focus, but a lot of it resonated because I was like, well, if we it's and it requires courage, let's be honest, to look at yourself and to put the mirror up and go, what am I projecting onto my children, my expectations, my growth, my journey?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very much what you've tapped into.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it requires courage to look at yourself in order to be a fan of your parent.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like so much, so much courage.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the traditional paradigm has told us that parents don't have to do this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the child's fault.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Fix the child, medicate the child, discipline the child.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this, especially in 2010 when we didn't have TikTok and Instagram, this was the most earth-shattering thing for people.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a lot of whiplash, a lot of backlash, and it's still not very popular.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Still, people will say, Oh, you want me to just give up control and you want the kids to rule the roost?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll just smoke pot with them.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, parents have such insane reactions when I tell them to give up control.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's as if I'm saying sex, drugs, and rock and roll, you know.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, no.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm not.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying, can you just look in the mirror?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that so hard to do?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: But parents would rather blame their child and rather put their children down than look in the mirror.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that incredible, Deborah?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is incredible.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and it comes from, I think it often comes from a place of care and love, but actually it's not really translating because then also, and I've seen a lot of the processes that you use, and I can see why it's almost like we're stuck in a very old-fashioned way of parenting.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to the industrial age.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is so crazy that people see this as some sort of threat.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're not saying give up control, you're saying actually own your part in the story, which is going to help your child.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something so logical about that, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it is, it is, but we've lived so long disconnected from our own truth that we were hoping when we had children, we could just put all our expectations onto them and they would become the recipient of our bad feelings, and we could make them into something that we could never be, and use them as a salvage of our last broken self.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we were hoping that this child would be our trophy child, our puppet puppet, our brand ambassador that we could say, look, mom, dad, I'm not such a screw up after all.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So to then look in the mirror and give up creating this child, you know, the unconscious reason we had them was that they would fulfill us.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So to give that up is very heartbreaking for parents, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you, how is it translated?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: What have you learned through this process in terms of take us through like a practical example?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you can can give me some sort of practical example of how you've applied this in your life or with a patient that you've had that you've seen a transformation.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, Deborah, I cannot tell you how, you know, the first uh conference I did in America in 2014, I remember thinking, who's gonna come?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: No one's gonna come.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was 350 people sold out, and mother after mother, in tears at how deeply this work has changed them.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's as simple as being able to really listen to your child without jumping in and fixing them.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's as simple as being intentional to put down your phone.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's as simple as thinking before you scream at them and connecting to them.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's as simple as having compassion for them and understanding that their brains are developing.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's in these small ways that conscious parenting shows up.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about gentle parenting.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Gentle parenting is a strategy.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Conscious parenting is a revolution, an inner revolution, a deep transformation from inside.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about, oh, let me just talk gently to my kid to get them to do the same thing I wanted them to do anyway.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not about them, it's about ourselves.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you personally, as this worked, obviously you can see it in your own life as a mom.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think some of it is also about stepping back?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love your reference, by the way, to the you're not there to fix them.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can relate to this extraordinarily because often my child or one of them will ring me and say, you know, tell me whatever their issue is.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, this is what you need to do.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could, if you spoke to them, they'd all go, Mom will literally give you, like, I will send them a text with, okay, do this, this, this, and this, then this, and then you'll be fine.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And call me if you need an update on any of the above.
• 10:44
  unknown: Right.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I have gotten quite reasonably adult children now, but I still do it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's also something about over connection and over, you know, overconfidence.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Over mothering, over-controlling, over I call it smothering, where it's not about our child at all.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's about us, you know, my my daughter will tell me at least once a week, oh yes, mom, I forgot you know everything.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she'll be sarcastic.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she'll say to me, You didn't even ask me, you just went ahead and gave me some opinions.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't need to ask you, I know everything.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's really hard for us to rein that ego in.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I teach it with compassion and humor.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're going to screw up our kids in some way or the other, but we can do it mindfully at least, you know.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that's really, really true.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think also the mindful aspect is very important because also they need the freedom to make their own mistakes, to fail, and to be okay with that, because we have, and you know how important that is.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And no matter how much you think you can catch their fall, the truth is often you can't.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's where they have the learning and the growth.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is really important as well because by stepping back and conscious parenting, it takes actual discipline to do that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lifetime work.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about perfection or reaching a pinnacle, it's about being excited to learn about yourself, heal yourself, and use this relationship to be a mirror to yourself.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in that way, you don't begrudge your child.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: You honor them, you honor the teacher that they are.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I frankly haven't found a greater teacher for us than our children.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with you.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much from my children, and I still continue to.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then you treat them like an equal rather than no matter what they're well, I suppose once they're at a certain age, but you know, we can give them a roadmap to a point.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are you finding that?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you talked about, and I have read obviously there's been there was some backlash and reticence from certain elements of the community.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you put that down to and how have you navigated that aspect?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think people are just scared.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They were raised with so much control and they were raised with so much disconnection that anything that challenges that now feels very threatening to them.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, it's it's also, you know, the case that many traumatized kids have become very conscious parents because they don't want to do it the same way.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And how have I handled it in stride with grace and humor?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I get upset in reaction.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But now, you know, it's been a long time since I've gotten upset.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I was young, I used to take it personally.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it took me a while to understand how stuck people are.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: But now I do have grace and compassion for them.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't impose my message on everybody now.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I suppose there are people that it will work for, and and others will do it a different way.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so the people that embrace what you do do and it works for them, that's something that I suppose you cultivate and you support, but you also respect, as I'm assuming, that you would accept there are some people it it doesn't work for, and that's okay.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: They have to do it a different way.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're right.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're not here yet, they can't receive the message yet.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have to give them time.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I notice also, I like that you've done a book for boys and for girls, the the awareness of the distinction, the acknowledgement of that, that it's not all one and the same.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: How how different is the approach?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this is a long, complex answer, but how different is the approach males to females?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know I have two daughters and a son.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I know personally how I navigate differently.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they're so different.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us just a few ways that you sort of?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so for example, my son, who I'm very close with, has a certain way of connecting with me that is completely different to my girls.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So he will be like, he will be very happy to sit in the car quietly and go on a trip with me and do something, but he doesn't need to talk nonstop about every aspect of his life.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's just happy to go, let's go look at that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go on a hike.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's like, he's much more he has to, he has to move, he has to do an activity.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we just went to Greece together and he like I had incredible moments with him of just standing in the ocean and him just with his arm around me and photos of us.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, oh my God, and don't have to say anything, doesn't care, just just be, just be.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's got this extraordinary maturation in that sense.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's 24.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: The girls we tend to be like five times a day talking, talking, talking, unpacking, debriefing, you know, constant processing, processing, processing, analyzing, analyzing, then crying, then talking.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so recovering, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Recovering.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and that is that is it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So boys are physical, they like to move, they like to, you know, uh physicalize their energy and their emotions.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Emotion is motion for boys, for girls, it's talking, talking, talking.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the worst thing I think we can do for our boys is make them feel bad for not talking and understand that they show their emotions differently.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: They need something different from us.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, recognizing that girls develop a sense of self through their bonds.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So repair is very important to girls.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like to go to sleep upset.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you have to kind of process it out and hear them and send to them being heard and validated is very essential for girls.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: They need that, yeah, and and letting them be who they are without trying to make them someone else.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: That that's very important for all children.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the pressure on girls and boys is very different too, because girls, there's such a focus on beauty aesthetic.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: The social media pressures are enormous, different to boys, which have their own social media.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I was reading about some of the work you're doing and the expectations on boys and how it's not as focused on the physical, but it as in they don't have to, well, some do have to look a certain way, but you know, you've got the manosphere, you've got the complexities of this sort of surreptitious pushing on social media.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: How have you seen this play out?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And has it gotten worse during the time that you're you've been working in this space?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we've never seen this rise of the manosphere as strongly as we have now.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of all works together, you know, as social media and video gaming isolate the boy, he's playing outside less, he's dating less, he's having sex less, pornography is increasing, he's getting more and more isolated, and there comes the manosphere to take him into a cult-like mentality and ideology.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: It just works all well together.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've only really seen it in the last five, 10 years, but especially since COVID.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a recent phenomenon.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I wrote these books because we have to wake parents up and give them the solutions to pivot and to re-establish that connection that is fast fading.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, with with parents of boys who are seeing their boys sucked into this vortex, let's say, of which is often something that parents don't actually fully appreciate until they're well into the process because it's on their computers or it's it's in their male groups that often parents don't always know what's going on.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you equip a parent to navigate that space?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's quite particularly with boys, they're very cautious.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to we have to reclaim our parenting influence and our relationship.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have to not take no for an answer.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Our boys need us, they want us, they desire connection, they just don't know how to ask for it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if a boy is in his room with his video games, that is his way of saying, I'm in trouble.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Come get me, rescue me, help me, help me detox.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So parents have to take this very seriously that boys are as emotionally needy as girls, they just don't show it as much.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, they may be more fragile.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, connection, physical presence is very important.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let your boy escape into his video games.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't allow it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: The video games have to be out in public, you have to engage with him, he has a time limit.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let him become isolated because his loneliness will truly cripple him.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And also doesn't make him a great partner moving forward for whoever he chooses because it's it's almost stunts development in a way, because they don't get to develop those important skills, which is what you refer to.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then they are very fragile, they don't want to experience rejection, and then it's a it's a moving target, it just keeps cascading and becoming bigger.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to be very attentive to your boys and keep them close.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And don't think just because they're saying they're fine, that means they don't need you and they don't need your physical touch and presence.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's very true and really important for parents to remember.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And in terms of girls, the influx obviously of social media and the and the absolute pressure on girls, which has always been present.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, look, here in Australia, there's a lot of discussion around both at the moment.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a lot of issues here, both with men acting badly, boys, I should say, acting badly, which is a huge issue here at the moment, and the consequence for girls, and then the pressure on girls who are basically finding themselves, whether it's through they're getting into OnlyFans, which they think is just like a, you know, a side hustle, it's like whatever.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole lot of really strange elements.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: You and I growing up probably it's always been there, but I I think the level of invasion into the home and into their everyday life is much greater.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just Oh my goodness.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I say that there's a stranger on their bed.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great expression.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I actually agree with you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it really is like your home used to be the sanctuary where you could protect them.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is a much greater challenge.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this the influence is in their pocket, you have no control.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you've literally outsourced your control and influence.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I am writing these books and I do this work to allow parents to reclaim that influence that is so important for their children.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the female, your book for girls, because you've got the book for boys and the book for girls, what is the focus of that?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the elements that you feature in that book that you can highlight for our listeners that you think of the people?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I talk about Yeah, I talk about the perfectionism that girls are experiencing, being over overthinking, over analyzing themselves because they feel like who they are in the public eye is more important than who they feel.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Feel they are, self-harm, you know, body issues, uh sexuality, getting hypersexualized too early, and thinking it's it's female empowerment when it's actually not female empowerment.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And just helping our girls understand their worth.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, it comes down to does she feel heard?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Does she feel safe?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Does she feel like she is worthy?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the key.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if a child doesn't feel that, if a daughter doesn't feel that, she can really spiral.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why anxiety is so high amongst our girls today.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an epidemic, really, isn't it?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like everyone has all these girls, whatever age, really from you know, quite young up to their 30s.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a strong focus on over-expectation, the expectation same apps and overachieving and all of that has become so endemic.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see this?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only it's not only grades now, it is about being the you know, boss babe and being the clean girl and putting makeup and having a makeup routine.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's this this is exhausting.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I watch it on it myself, I'm like exhausted, and I'm a developed woman.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you go on it, you see on Instagram, it's absolutely exhausting.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like absolutely exhausting.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen those girls who dive like 10 things they're doing?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Ten things, like this thing, and then the that thing, and then the thing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing their makeup while they're doing their the is that what the that one?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but also the ones where they put 10 things on their faces.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you and I are like horrified.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, what are these girls doing?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and it's crazy.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's becomes such a ridiculous trend of get ready with me.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and so girls are aping that and falling into that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they need to look to go out.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now older women are all getting all these jobs done, nose job, hair job.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and I'm all for like look beautiful, do what you need to do.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But put it, but when you put it on Instagram, it now is part of it's part of the collective consciousness.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be careful what message you put out privately and what message you put out publicly, and young girls are watching.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to be careful what we put out there.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can do whatever you want in the privacy of your home, but it's another thing to put it out there.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I really hear what you're saying, and I think it's a fascinating time, and I think having these tools is very important.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that I read an interesting comment that you said, which was we make children our project, or we make our children our project?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to what you were talking about earlier.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting notion because you want to be, you need to step back, but you also want to provide wisdom that you and I have and try and impart that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that without overstepping?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose that's sort of the challenge, I think.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's very hard.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: We will overstep, so it's about being aware and keep toggling back and forth.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not going to be perfect ever.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about just being aware.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now I'm overstepping now.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the child will tell you.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you're truly connected to your child, they will tell you how they feel and you getting feedback moment by moment.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's such a dance, it's so much attunement.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like this give and take relationship, but most parents are not willing to listen.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then they believe that they're right, like many times we do, and we're not willing to take feedback.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have to take the child's feedback.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: They need to feel like their voice is heard, that they are they have agency, that they're making an impact in the world.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And most parents are not receptive to that feedback.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I also read something interesting you said, which I actually completely relate to.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Being nice has cost too many girls their voice.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Kindness is a beautiful quality.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: On the flip side, people pleasing is a survival strategy.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Our daughters deserve to know the difference.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's teach them about setting boundaries.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make them mean, difficult, or selfish.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: It makes them safe.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was really interesting, the idea that we are raised as girls and as women.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the many tools and lessons that you highlight to be nice, to be accommodating, to people, please.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's at a cost, it's at a huge cost.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we are breaking now, I hope, in the next generations, because to be validated, to be approved becomes more important than us belonging to ourselves.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I teach.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: The first pillar in this book, raising conscious daughters, for anyone who has a daughter, go get this book.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm just saying.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I write, you know, I write, dedicated to all daughters.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: May you awaken from the myth of your unworthiness, may you rise from the ashes of your shame, may you break free from the shackles of your fears and step into the courage that awaits your arrival.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: For you deserve to live rooted in your worth, take up space without apology, be chosen by love that honors you, grow into the fullness of your authenticity, and claim the power that has always been in you.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is about reclamation of our authenticity.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: We can only do that when we allow our daughters to feel heard and leave being liked and being nice.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: That is for other people.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Start belonging to yourself and loving yourself, and then you will be nice to other people, but you will not forget yourself, you will not abandon yourself.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And geez, I wish we had that book when we were growing up.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is so, so important.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that paragraph.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have one similar in the in the in intro for the book?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Boys.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be interested to hear that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, read me because I love that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really beautiful.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: What a gem of wisdom.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Dedicated to our sons.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: May you awaken from the lie that your feelings are dangerous.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: May you rise from the shame that you are too much or not enough.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: May you break free from the armor that was never meant to be your skin and step into your heart space that you were never taught to trust.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: For you deserve to feel your fears without masks, be bold and daring without guilt, grow into your masculinity on your own terms, claim the power that has always been yours to carry, and be met with a respect that honors who you truly are.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely love that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think a lot of our listeners will be going out to buy that book, those books, both those books, depending on whether you have sons and daughters.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you've tapped into something very important.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're in a, I think we're at a turning point in our community, both here and in the US, but really globally, where we do need to stand up and change the way that we parent.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And your courage and your bravery in in offering something different and a different lens and pillars or roadmaps, as I often call them, are really going to hopefully assist a lot of people.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're already doing great work, as we know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a lot of fans.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So on that note, I'd like to thank you so much, Dr.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Shafali, for joining us.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we will be putting in the bio, we'll be putting the links to your work, to your books, and also you have a retreat coming up, which we will also put in the links.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone stays.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say a couple of things.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have a coaching institute.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if people, many from Australia in my coaching institute, I give you a$500 coupon for your listeners who want to come and be trained in my institute.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh, I'm doing a women's retreat in Bali, so please come and Deborah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm going.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, it's going to be incredible, incredible.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Excited.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're you're so sweet.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel such a kindred connection, and it's been a pleasure meeting you.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Same, same.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Same same.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: See you soon.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: See you in Bali.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bye love.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for joining us on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: We love our shared humanity, and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected, and we'll see you next time at the What I've Learned Podcast.