Latest / The Curve / RTC141: Making $1 million in 1 year on OnlyFans, with Grace Wears Lace.

Transcript

RTC141: Making $1 million in 1 year on OnlyFans, with Grace Wears Lace. · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
0:06
Come and learn alongside me, Sophie Hallwright, a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris.
0:12
So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could so that finance, investing and growing your wealth actually makes sense.
0:18
Yes, it's expert education but with promise will not be boring. And in the wise words of sheer...
0:22
My mom said to me, you know sweetheart, one day you should settle down and marry a rich man.
0:28
I said, Mum, I am a rich man. Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
0:34
I'm going to make a really bold statement here and say that I think that this might be one of the most eye-opening episodes that I have ever done on this podcast with you, Vic.
0:44
There was lots of...
0:46
It was just really different that people were spoken to before.
0:52
The most fascinating part for me is the realization of how much within...
0:58
As a joke, within our friendship we've said things like, oh we'll just suddenly fans of things get tough or...
1:06
You know, Vic's saying, I've got really nice toes, maybe I'll suddenly fans.
1:10
But I think this episode of this interview made me realise the dedication, hard work, skill set that goes into being successful on only fans.
1:20
And the business acumen.
1:22
And so we're speaking to Grace Wesley and this interview, firstly she's probably one of the most financially successful people we've had on the podcast.
1:30
Definitely out there.
1:32
Definitely. She is about to buy her fourth home, she supports her family, she's like her early to mid-20s.
1:40
She is not far away from being able to essentially call her today with work in general.
1:46
That's how well she is doing on only fans.
1:49
And I think that for both of us, the most fascinating part of this chat is one particular tactic that she uses.
1:58
Don't say it, I'm not going to.
2:00
One particular tactic that she uses to make an absolute guarantee on this platform.
2:08
In fact let's... Can we just say it? Because you definitely need to listen to this part of the interview.
2:12
It's called fandom and it means financial domination.
2:15
And I... I was into reminds about this, I don't know how I felt, but I didn't even know it existed to be honest.
2:23
It's actually draining people's bank accounts. It's something that turns them on. So she has access to...
2:29
Don't give it away.
2:31
All these different bank accounts. Anyway, it's an incredibly interesting chat. It will change your perspective on sex work.
2:37
And only fans and content creators and just how much time and effort and skills they put on it.
2:45
Yeah, I was like, head off to her. She is killing it.
2:48
In fact, for the last, I probably recorded this about two months ago.
2:51
For the past two months, I have told so many people about this conversation. So I think goal is finally coming out.
2:57
And I'm always like, so when's it coming out? When's it coming out?
3:00
So here it is.
3:03
Oh, grace. Thanks so much for being here. Unbelievably excited to talk to you.
3:11
Honestly, it's so refreshing to like read about someone's financial situation who is in like a completely different industry to anything either of us know anything about.
3:24
I think that finances should be more talked about because I think there should be some more transparency around income, like differences in earning money, like just how much people do and what's the average.
3:34
Like it's not really talked about and it's kind of taboo. So I do like talking about it because I feel like I never had money growing up.
3:41
So it's nice to talk about that difference in mindset now, which a lot of people will like can understand.
3:47
We need more graces on the podcast.
3:49
We need more graces in the world to be honest.
3:51
So you started only fans in 2020 and locked down.
3:55
And you made a million dollars in your first year.
3:59
And I just want to say, holy somehow, congratulations.
4:04
Thank you.
4:06
So many of my friends like, I'm just going to get only fans.
4:09
I'm just going to do this, but like you actually did it and you made a million dollars in a year. So talk to us.
4:14
So I was a hotel receptionist before, for a few like two years before I started.
4:20
I hated my job. I was just really, really broke. I was really poor.
4:25
I've grown up like my family didn't have a lot of money.
4:29
So I've always grown up kind of broke.
4:31
But it kind of to the point where I couldn't even really eat enough food.
4:35
Like I couldn't even barely pay my rent that feeling like really, really stressed.
4:38
So I just decided my guy best friend told me about it.
4:42
He's like, you know what? He's like, you would actually really good on this website.
4:45
And I was raised very religious.
4:48
So I was very standoffish about it.
4:50
Anyway, I got registered at the point where I was like, all right, I have no other option.
4:53
I'm just going to start this.
4:54
And if this fails, I don't know what else to do because I'm so broke.
4:57
And I just don't really have something I want to go do right now. I don't know what I want to study.
5:00
So I started it and I think, yeah, like the first night, I made like a grant.
5:04
And I was like, oh my God, like this is pretty addictive.
5:09
It just kind of went up and up from there.
5:11
So like the first month, I don't even remember how much I made it.
5:13
I think it was like 10 grand the first month.
5:15
And then obviously just like kind of increased, increased every month.
5:18
There's like a more exposure.
5:19
But I, yeah, I was pretty much hooked from the get-go.
5:22
And I never thought I was going to be successful.
5:24
And what was like your initial strategy?
5:26
Like what gave you that initial $1,000 in an hour?
5:30
So the way that only friends works is it's a subscription-based website.
5:33
Kind of like Instagram with like a feed.
5:35
You got like a feed and you got messages, you got DMs.
5:38
But you paid to obviously access the feed and the feed you can post whatever you want.
5:42
So I post TZ raunchy content.
5:45
I do post like topless, but I just don't post anything else on the feed.
5:49
And then you pay to unlock more explicit content in the messages.
5:52
So that's kind of how it works.
5:54
And the money you usually made from either subscriptions or obviously the messages.
5:58
But people can also tip you.
6:00
And stuff like that.
6:01
You also can make money through referrals.
6:03
So someone used your link.
6:04
Like you get like I think five percent of all their earnings.
6:06
So there's about a bunch of different ways you can earn from that.
6:09
But I think it would have been from mainly subs at the start.
6:12
And how much are you earning now if you don't mind me asking?
6:15
So it varies a lot because it's a very volatile kind of if someone goes viral or something doesn't go viral.
6:21
If Instagram goes well, like if you ticked on things on.
6:24
So between like 60,000 to 100,000 a month.
6:28
Is that what I would earn?
6:29
Yeah.
6:30
Oh.
6:31
Sorry.
6:33
I'm just holy shit.
6:35
I'm like, do we get naked now?
6:37
Like what?
6:38
I know.
6:39
I'm not.
6:40
I need to join.
6:41
Okay.
6:42
Everyone probably thinks they'll jump on there and be really successful.
6:45
You've obviously got a neck for it.
6:46
You obviously know like what works, what doesn't.
6:49
You've been on there for four years nearly now.
6:52
Half a year.
6:53
Nearly five years.
6:54
How do you figure out the pricing strategy for the content?
6:57
Like what people will pay?
6:59
Is it a bit of trial and error?
7:00
Like there's obviously a subscription part.
7:01
But then like you're talking about the unlocking.
7:03
Like how do you know what to charge for there?
7:05
That was definitely trial and error.
7:07
Obviously everyone is different.
7:09
And you can actually price it any way you want.
7:12
Obviously there's like ways to be able to maximize your sales.
7:15
And to maximize people wanting to send your page.
7:17
You want to rip people off.
7:18
I never wanted to rip people off.
7:19
And you don't want to charge under charged.
7:21
And people get too much for what you think it's worth.
7:24
So why subscriptions?
7:25
$9.99.
7:26
It's always been like that.
7:27
That was just like set price on the go.
7:28
And that's a pretty average price of amongst creators.
7:31
In terms of content, it really depends on what you're making.
7:34
I make quite explicit content.
7:36
So if it's a solo video, if it's like a lesbian or we call it gg,
7:40
girl girl video or a bg, like boy girl video,
7:43
it really changes the price.
7:45
So like a sex tape.
7:46
I initially when I very first might have been $100 US.
7:51
Now on average, it's like I make a lot more of them.
7:55
And it's very normal.
7:56
It's about 35 to 45 for a sex tape.
7:58
So I was able to say that so low.
8:01
Like I would be charging.
8:02
I feel like you should be charging thousands for that.
8:06
$35 for a six tape.
8:08
Yeah.
8:09
$35 to $40.
8:10
Oh, so it's come down in price.
8:12
Yes.
8:13
Which is what you kind of have to do over the years,
8:16
because people will stop.
8:18
Like it'll kind of tear off.
8:19
And you do need to kind of keep it competitive,
8:21
as well as the fact that people have seen this before.
8:24
And so it's not new.
8:25
Yeah, but something's new and different.
8:27
I charge a lot more for it.
8:28
But because it's the same thing,
8:30
to maximize your sales, which obviously it's still earn raising money,
8:33
you're actually better at pricing at lower.
8:35
Then pricing at high and having two people buy it,
8:37
or pricing at lower and having 200 people buy it,
8:40
you earn more money.
8:41
Because that's like, obviously if you get more popular
8:43
and go viral, you've got more people following.
8:46
So you can charge a lot of it.
8:47
Yes.
8:48
Still can make more money.
8:49
Yeah.
8:50
Okay.
8:51
Got you.
8:52
Yeah.
8:53
Yeah.
8:54
But hold on.
8:55
So great.
8:56
Can you just explain?
8:57
So do you have, let's just say,
8:58
is there, would there be an explicit tape
8:59
that you sell and sell and sell again?
9:00
Is that how it works?
9:01
Or like,
9:02
or do you create specific content through the DMs
9:04
for people that's like bespoke?
9:06
Like, how does that work?
9:08
Yeah, and a good question.
9:09
So that's what we'd call it custom, custom content.
9:12
So I'm, I definitely, not everyone offers it,
9:14
but I offer custom content.
9:15
So that's priced at a lot higher rate.
9:17
Obviously you're making it with that individual for themselves.
9:21
So a lot of the time,
9:22
a custom video,
9:23
they'll just want their name being said.
9:24
Or they want something really weird,
9:26
and I've actually just filmed a really weird video today.
9:30
And they'll have like a specific question,
9:32
you know, like a series of what they want in steps.
9:35
And they're very, very specific about it.
9:37
So that will be priced a lot higher.
9:39
So for instance,
9:40
a solo video of me might be like 20 dollars,
9:44
let's just say an average.
9:45
But a custom solo of something in particular might be 500.
9:50
So it's ranked up a lot,
9:52
depending on as soon as it becomes customized,
9:54
I'm putting my,
9:55
my time is money.
9:56
I've ever on time is money.
9:57
But like, you know,
9:58
my energy and time into even that five minute video
10:02
that you're going to pay for that.
10:04
Like that's a lot.
10:05
Because there's 20,
10:06
this video that I'm selling for 20 dollars,
10:08
that was made maybe a year ago.
10:10
And I've set that out every week.
10:12
Like it's like, you know,
10:13
it's not that one person I've made a lot of money off of that.
10:16
So I need to make back,
10:17
because I'm not going to resell a custom video.
10:19
So I need to make back the equivalent
10:21
that I would in terms of making general content for my audience.
10:25
What's the most expensive thing you've created?
10:28
So I've actually been delving a little bit into like,
10:32
they would call it like fetarism,
10:34
but I'm not exactly like it's not the negative connotation
10:37
I have with it.
10:38
But feeding,
10:39
like eating videos,
10:40
people love to turn that into a little bit like sexual,
10:43
which is kind of very interesting.
10:44
So people want to mean to eat spaghetti.
10:46
Like, really spaghetti that I really like.
10:48
Oh my god.
10:49
I can do that.
10:50
Yeah.
10:51
I'll eat spaghetti.
10:52
I'll do it.
10:53
And just emphasize the noises and like the eating and the sounds
10:57
and like kind of like talk about how full I'm getting.
11:00
Like it's very specific.
11:01
I think that was over a $1,500.
11:05
I touched a $1,500.
11:06
Oh my gosh.
11:07
And how long does that take?
11:09
Yeah, yeah.
11:10
How long does it take?
11:11
Under 10 minutes.
11:12
Okay.
11:13
Yeah.
11:14
And so how many people would be getting custom content like that?
11:18
Actually a lot.
11:19
So customs take up a lot of my time.
11:22
Video calls, live video calls,
11:24
and custom videos are where I make a lot of my money.
11:27
So I'm making them all week.
11:29
Because we're constantly requesting custom content.
11:31
And it's really, I have to kind of sometimes say,
11:33
I've got too many.
11:34
But I do like getting them.
11:36
Because obviously you price them in a lot higher rate.
11:38
So you do earn a lot of money from customs.
11:40
Are there any like rules or like they can pay more to have access
11:44
to do what they want with it?
11:45
Or I don't know, like usage fees or anything?
11:48
As soon as you leak anything like that, like you're actually,
11:51
it's actually legal and only fans.
11:52
I think they say that they will actually sue for you.
11:55
If you like bring the case to them, like they'll sue the person for you.
11:58
So it's very highly legal.
12:00
Obviously people get leaked all the time.
12:02
That's like a huge thing.
12:03
I get leaked a lot.
12:04
I have to have a service.
12:05
I have this website service that helps take down little leaks every day.
12:08
But you basically just have to let go of that.
12:11
And just be like, this could get out there.
12:14
And I've done some pretty wack videos.
12:16
Like there's some videos that, of course,
12:18
I wouldn't really want like out there.
12:20
But for me, I am a very open person now.
12:23
And very much was not when I was younger.
12:25
And I think I just don't care.
12:27
Because I know I'm doing the right,
12:29
like I'm doing the right job for me right now.
12:31
And I'm being really smart.
12:32
So I kind of like go over the control.
12:34
What percentage does only fans take in terms of your earnings?
12:38
20% of all my earnings.
12:40
We need to see, okay.
12:41
So are they encouraged to like help you be successful at all?
12:44
They don't ever.
12:45
No, only fans don't, has no way to,
12:47
they don't have like an explore page themselves,
12:49
like outside of what you pay for.
12:51
There's no like generic Instagram kind of feed on only fans.
12:54
It's just like you pay to subscribe to that one girl's page.
12:57
But there's no like,
12:58
I would people find you like, I don't understand how,
13:00
because if you've gone viral,
13:02
you've had really,
13:03
so is it then stuff outside of the platform,
13:05
like TikTok and Instagram and things like that?
13:07
Absolutely.
13:08
Absolutely.
13:09
What drives your subscriptions on only fans?
13:10
Does that then mean that when you first started in 2020,
13:14
and you're like, all right, I'll give this a go.
13:16
Did you go straight to only fans?
13:18
Or did you have to start promoting yourself on socials?
13:21
Because I think that would be almost the hardest bravest point for you,
13:26
is for anyone to be like,
13:28
okay, I want to commit to this because at that point,
13:30
it's everyone you know,
13:32
seeing what you're doing,
13:33
it's putting that out there to friends and family.
13:36
Like, do you go straight to the platform?
13:38
And then when you see uptake,
13:40
you go and start promoting yourself.
13:42
There's no way for anyone to know who you are just on only fans.
13:46
You have to be driving people.
13:48
It's like traffic to there.
13:49
So I didn't kind of realize this,
13:51
but I think I like for a few years before my Instagram had always been
13:55
a bit like raunchy.
13:56
Like I didn't even really,
13:57
I had no point to it.
13:58
I just like,
13:59
I liked posting bikini photos and like stuff about the gym,
14:02
my body and like update.
14:03
It's like I had kind of cultivated unintentionally a male following.
14:07
So I can't do myself a favor without even knowing it.
14:10
But I guess if you're starting from scratch,
14:12
you would have to just start with the intentions of advertising yourself.
14:16
And it was a lot easier back in the day.
14:17
You could post your only fans actual link on your Instagram.
14:21
You could get bands straight away from there now.
14:23
Really?
14:24
And your TikTok and yeah, they hate us.
14:26
They hate us.
14:27
They hate us.
14:28
Wow.
14:29
Is that because you're taking people off Instagram?
14:32
Don't actually know.
14:33
I think it's the sexual part of it.
14:35
I think genuinely.
14:36
Yeah.
14:37
I think they look down on sex workers.
14:39
And you can't really advertise very well.
14:42
I have had so many accounts banned.
14:44
It's not even funny.
14:45
So many TikTok accounts.
14:46
So many Instagram accounts like hundreds.
14:48
So they're always trying to get used.
14:50
It sucks because that would really impact your revenue as well.
14:53
Like if they're shutting down,
14:55
you're like, you got a shadow band from TikTok.
14:57
Like if you got blah, blah, blah.
14:59
Like how does that immediately affect your revenue and your straight away?
15:04
When you've made this big Instagram following,
15:06
you get taken down and they refuse to give it back to you.
15:09
And it's just, it really is disheartening.
15:11
It's just the ups and downs of the job.
15:13
And unfortunately,
15:14
it's not a very socially accepted job.
15:17
It is to a point, but not as much as I would like.
15:20
And so it is looked down on and it is taken away from me very easily.
15:25
I really want to dig into that because that to me is like so incredibly unfair
15:30
that the way that you make money and be financially independent is your choice.
15:36
And I love what you said around,
15:38
you have control of the content that goes out there,
15:40
you have control of the hours,
15:41
you work, how much money you make, all of that,
15:43
which is incredibly empowering.
15:45
But what do you think some of the biggest misconceptions are
15:48
when it comes to only fans?
15:50
Oh my god, where do I begin?
15:53
Okay, so basically it's just your stupid.
15:57
And this is what you're doing because you have no village to do anything else.
16:00
They think it's really easy.
16:02
So people think it literally is about waking up, snapping a nude,
16:06
and you're done for the day and that's your income made.
16:08
It's like there is, oh my god, so much it goes into it.
16:11
You have to have a business model.
16:12
Like you have to be a businesswoman or a man to succeed in this job.
16:16
Anyone can make it only fans.
16:18
Anyone can do anything, but to succeed in it,
16:20
there is so much planning that it's just overwhelming the admin side of it.
16:24
Making the content editing collaborations,
16:27
being posting, being consistent on new socials.
16:31
Always being up to date with like trends and that kind of stuff
16:34
and always being aware of everything,
16:35
and you never switched off on socials.
16:37
I think just a big misconception that people think that it's just like a walk in the park
16:41
and it's so far from that.
16:43
We are just really normal people
16:45
and people really forget that,
16:46
especially the fans forget that
16:48
and can be a bit disrespectful
16:50
just in terms of not assuming that we have other things going on in our lives
16:53
and actually have other responsibilities
16:55
and might once and down time might not want to make this video right now.
16:59
Based on that, do you have boundaries or things that you won't do for personal reasons?
17:05
Like, how do you draw the line between what is business and work
17:08
that you'll put on only fans and what you don't feel comfortable with?
17:11
For me personally,
17:13
Grace Weaselace, which is like my Instagram,
17:15
kind of like my brand name, Grace Weaselace,
17:17
that for me is kind of a character.
17:21
And I'm acting.
17:23
And to me, it's more about I'm mentally compartmentalising it
17:27
when I'm making content.
17:29
So it might be that I'm making the same,
17:31
doing the same actions, like I might be having sex
17:33
and a sex tape, having sex,
17:35
my personal life, but for me,
17:37
it's more of a mental separation.
17:39
So to me, it's just about like switching that mindset over
17:42
and not so much about different content,
17:45
but obviously I have lines and boundaries
17:47
and I get a lot of weird requests
17:49
and I do have the same note of them.
17:51
Do you find like obviously being such an open book about how much you earn?
17:54
Do you find it brings a few people out of the woodwork
17:59
in terms of like asking for money or expecting you to pay?
18:02
That's a really good question.
18:04
I definitely, definitely feel like this.
18:07
In the past, it's been like different,
18:10
maybe guys I've been seeing.
18:12
I have a great group of like friends.
18:14
I don't really feel like that from my close friends,
18:16
but just friends, fleeting friends in the past.
18:18
And to sometimes with my family,
18:20
like if I'm being totally honest,
18:22
like I can feel like a little bit of a family back sometimes.
18:25
I'm definitely the most financially secure and successful.
18:28
So I do help them out a lot.
18:30
I'm glad that I can help them,
18:32
but I definitely get the feeling sometimes,
18:34
not just them, just in general,
18:35
of feeling a little bit taken advantage of with my money.
18:39
And there is that feeling of expectation sometimes
18:41
that I do get with people that it is like,
18:43
well, I know you can afford it.
18:46
Like they're like, I know you have that amount of savings.
18:48
I know you both, how much you earn.
18:49
Like that expectation to kind of cover costs is definitely there.
18:52
And it can be really frustrating.
18:55
It's interesting the dynamic of earning more than a guy as well.
18:58
Like is there ever been times where you've played down
19:01
or wanted to keep those conversations a little bit more vague?
19:04
Almost always.
19:06
Yeah, I see that.
19:08
And is that because they feel emesculated
19:10
by the idea of you earning more?
19:12
I would say so.
19:13
I mean, for me, I'm trying to protect myself.
19:15
And if I can envision that they're going to potentially
19:18
wanting to use me for money,
19:20
not that I want to, you know,
19:21
to be seeing guys that I think will do that.
19:23
But I just don't, when you don't know someone,
19:25
you just don't know what they're capable of.
19:27
So I would almost always keep their conversation to myself
19:29
until I know them very, very well or we're actually dating.
19:32
And also you said just then you bought properties.
19:34
And I write and think you bought three
19:36
and are looking to your fourth property.
19:38
Yes, you're very correct.
19:40
And your dad lives in one of them.
19:43
Yeah, he lives in, I have an apartment in like,
20:10
I think that took a while for him to get on board
20:13
with the way you were making money.
20:15
And did I get to a point where like,
20:17
you could say, well, I'm successful.
20:18
I buy you a house or a car because I still online.
20:20
You bought it in a car.
20:21
So generous.
20:22
Like how did that start and now eventually wait to where it is?
20:25
Been out of a journey with that one.
20:28
I would still still work in progress.
20:31
This, my parents are still very religious.
20:33
So they have particular views about that.
20:36
And I don't think they're ever going to accept fully
20:38
or like what I do.
20:39
I think the part they do like that I quickly learnt
20:41
was that they like that I'm smart with my money
20:43
and I make smart financial decisions.
20:45
So I think that, like they respected that part a lot.
20:48
But it's definitely, it's, it's the elephant in the room
20:51
a lot of the time.
20:52
It's, it's awkward conversations.
20:53
And I didn't even tell them they found out through my Instagram.
20:56
I think I think they followed it and they found it.
20:59
And that was a really hard conversation.
21:01
So yeah, it's, it's kind of just like always been the awkward elephant
21:06
in the room that we talk about the things that we are okay to talk about regarding it.
21:10
But there's a lot we don't talk about.
21:12
And how did you like know to invest in property?
21:16
Like that is a very smart decision like you said yourself.
21:19
And like how do you have, is that come from your parents?
21:23
Is it come from others and only fans that are like earning such great money
21:27
that they're like make sure that you be smart with that?
21:29
Like where did that come from?
21:31
So in terms of majors wanting to be smart with my money,
21:34
I think I just looked at my childhood as I never want to feel like that again
21:39
in terms of feeling so unstable and just not financially secure, not safe.
21:44
Like it doesn't feel safe when you don't, you know, you live in paycheck to paycheck.
21:47
So with that, I did a lot of research and I was like, all right, you know,
21:50
how do I set myself up?
21:51
What's the smartest decisions?
21:52
And I was like, look at everything that realistically that I really kind of cared about
21:57
and wanted to understand more.
21:58
And property just like really always, I always just was really interested in it
22:03
and how you can just make money from that and obviously inflation and just learning about it.
22:07
And there's still a lot.
22:08
I don't feel like I know about it that I was still trying to like learn about it.
22:12
I feel like I don't understand everything that I want to understand about it.
22:15
But I think I also had some friends that had bought property and were talking about it.
22:20
And I also have my parents buy property and they were talking about how they were like thinking I should do that.
22:25
So I think I just had a lot of support with that front and I had a lot of research
22:29
and then I was like, cool, well, I think that this is the right thing for me to do.
22:33
Because you've earned, like, you know, some months 60K, some months 100K.
22:38
Sometimes if you've gone viral, like 450 in a month, would you then go and like,
22:43
put that lump sum on a big investment or like, how do you, because it's like such inconsistent income,
22:50
how do you save, invest, but, you know, like, what's your strategy?
22:55
So I have a financial advisor, a good account and everything.
22:59
So I think having a good team behind you is really important.
23:02
As much as I like to learn, I do like to say that I am just, I'm just a little girl that just stumbled upon some money
23:08
and I don't, I don't know it. I don't have all the answers.
23:10
So I love to ask advice and hear other people's opinions.
23:13
But I, I just, I just basically saved a lot of my savings initially.
23:17
I didn't buy property for the first like two years.
23:21
And I put it into a high interest savings account.
23:24
So I learned a lot of interest from that because I was obviously putting in a lot of money every week.
23:29
And so from that, I would just, I paid the normal deposits from the properties and then I've just paid larger amounts of it.
23:37
So I still have like loans for them because I didn't want to give up all my cash in hand just to pay that out
23:43
because I didn't know how many I wanted to get.
23:45
And I also wanted them to be tenanted and kind of have the tenants paid off as it, as it went and cover the cost.
23:50
So I didn't really feel the need to do that.
23:52
Again, I'm open to learning more.
23:54
Maybe that is the better thing to pay them all off.
23:56
But I was kind of advised to basically do that and just pay off a larger deposit.
24:01
And you can chuck some extra into the loan if you'd like and then let the tenants pay that off.
24:06
Yeah, I think that's great advice.
24:08
I think if you can use debt in a way that makes you increase your wealth.
24:13
Yes.
24:14
And you've got the capital gain, which is the change in the price of the house.
24:17
You know, you've got the rent being covered by tenants.
24:19
I think that's such a smart idea.
24:21
And you obviously diversified across a number of different properties.
24:23
Grace, there's something I really want to ask you about.
24:25
And it's like, I think it's honestly been what I'm like so excited to find.
24:31
Okay, so financial dominance.
24:34
We've got to talk about it.
24:35
This is something that you've encountered in your work.
24:38
We didn't know anything about this.
24:42
The only tiny little snippet that I had to compare it to is all of the different random DMs
24:51
that I used to get a couple of years ago from people being like, do you need a sugar daddy?
24:55
I'll pay.
24:56
I'll just transfer money in your account.
24:57
And I always thought it was a scam.
24:59
However, since researching for this interview, we've realised that we've missed out.
25:03
And we've realised that we've missed out on some serious cash.
25:06
You need to go back and get them all.
25:08
Yeah.
25:09
Actually, I know it was two years ago that I'm peeing.
25:11
And he's like, moved on, babe.
25:13
What is Fendon?
25:15
Like, what is it?
25:16
Basically, you're dominating people and taking their money.
25:20
So there's different kind of ways that people like to have that happen.
25:24
So some people like to be humiliating.
25:26
It's more of a, it's a very dominating like, you know, I'm better than you.
25:30
And you don't deserve this money and you take it.
25:32
I get called goddess a lot.
25:34
So like, that's kind of like the role players.
25:36
Like they're a loser or a paper or a, like a,
25:39
basically, you just call them anything you want.
25:41
An idiot, a freak, a stupid.
25:43
And then they call you, you know, mistress goddess, like amazing.
25:47
Like they adore you.
25:49
So there's the domination that they want you to really be horrible to them,
25:53
as well as take their money.
25:54
And some of them just want you to take their money,
25:56
but have like a genuine, like kind of connection and have fun.
25:59
But they, they get off on feeling dominated and,
26:03
and feeling like you're taking something that wasn't even theirs to begin with.
26:07
Or shouldn't be theirs because you deserve it more is what I've kind of gathered.
26:11
That's how they kind of find it really attractive.
26:13
And a lot of people, a lot of men are in like maybe more power roles as well.
26:18
And so they like this aspect where they save women.
26:21
If it's like reverse, they like to feel a little bit dominated.
26:24
And they like to feel a little bit like look down on it.
26:27
And they want to be humiliated.
26:29
And it's also something obviously I like to have happened.
26:33
But I love to take part in it.
26:35
I love to help them out.
26:36
I also like, I think that it's, if it's mutually beneficial, it's amazing.
26:42
And I have a lot of fun doing it.
26:43
And I can tell that they have so much fun doing it.
26:46
So in that sense, I also have boundaries with it.
26:49
And I never want to, you know,
26:52
just take some all of someone's money.
26:54
It's not my goal by goal is to have like this experience with you
26:57
and to hopefully keep it ongoing.
26:59
So I do have to sometimes have to budget with them because I'm like,
27:03
babe, I'm not draining you tonight.
27:06
I'm draining you tomorrow.
27:07
So I like to be like, you know, a nice normal person about it as well.
27:11
What do you mean sorry, but like draining their account?
27:16
Do they want you to take all their money?
27:18
Yes.
27:19
So they go, look, I've got 50,000 here.
27:22
Please spend it.
27:23
And you just spend it.
27:24
Yeah.
27:25
So they will pump the provider.
27:26
They don't want to take it all.
27:28
They want you to take a portion of it.
27:30
So I've never had anyone be like, take the whole lot.
27:33
Because I think that at the same time, they do experience a lot of fear.
27:37
So it's like, they get a little bit scared so you can't,
27:39
you don't want to take them, take too much is what I've basically learnt.
27:42
But they will beg you to take it.
27:44
They'll say, please, like, please, like, it's your money.
27:47
I don't deserve this.
27:48
Like, it should be in your bank account.
27:50
They will literally send 100 messages begging me to take the money.
27:56
They'll be like, I'm not sleeping until you've taken it.
27:58
Like, please take it.
27:59
Like, here's the pin number.
28:00
Here's the code.
28:01
This is my net bank login.
28:02
Please log in and take it.
28:03
Take it.
28:04
And so I do.
28:05
But I do like to, again, like I said, be reasonable.
28:08
So I definitely take chunks, but I like to look at what they're able to do.
28:12
Because I want it to be an ongoing thing.
28:14
And I don't want to just be like, right.
28:16
Like, taking that all fuck off.
28:18
Like, you aren't, you don't have no money.
28:20
Well, she's the seven moderate.
28:22
She thinks about how many plus dollars returning comes.
28:25
Yes.
28:26
Yes.
28:27
So they pay you to take their money.
28:30
But all they don't pay me, but as in, like, I'm just taking their money
28:34
and depoliting.
28:35
Oh, okay.
28:36
So you don't, they don't pay for that content.
28:38
And then no, no, they just, I'm just taking the money.
28:41
So that's the payment, I guess.
28:43
And when did this first happen?
28:44
And when you like, hang on, is this a scam?
28:46
And then you're like, actually, it's not.
28:49
I, I the same as you guys.
28:51
I had those creepy DMs of wanting sugar daddy's in my DMs.
28:55
So, you know, for as long as I can remember on Instagram.
28:57
And I never really took much heat of them, like any of us.
29:00
Um, and I think maybe maybe two years ago, three years ago.
29:04
And I got this guy DM me on Instagram.
29:06
And he was just so insistent.
29:07
And of course, I thought it was a scam, blah, blah.
29:09
And then finally, I let him, I was like, alright, well, here's my bank account.
29:13
I was like, send me $100.
29:14
And I was like, no, I was like, I'm not going to get this.
29:17
And then I got it.
29:18
And then I was like, oh, okay.
29:21
Um, and then that kind of, that was the first ever experience I had with it.
29:25
That was actually it worked.
29:26
And I still talked to him now.
29:27
And he's a very big part of my life.
29:29
Um, and then I just started noticing more and more.
29:32
And I had more people, like I messaged back a lot of people in my DMs.
29:35
And um, you talked to a lot of different people with different.
29:38
Hold on a second, because I need to be, is this being a sugar baby?
29:42
Is this a sugar daddy?
29:43
It's essentially the same thing.
29:44
Oh, okay.
29:45
It's actually not.
29:46
So, um, I mean, I'm sure that there are probably as a crossover in terms of those two things.
29:51
And becoming merging into one.
29:53
But it's definitely more of a dominating relationship where you're not actually,
29:57
you're not dating them.
29:58
You don't have a relationship.
29:59
But you have like a say over what they do, what they spend their money on.
30:03
Um, but it's, it's really meant to be like a dominating moment in time.
30:07
We take it.
30:08
And then you're not always talking to them outside of that.
30:10
It's, it's meant to be like an experience for like 20 minutes.
30:14
Kind of like a video call or a custom video.
30:16
Um, but you're not creating like a relationship based on it.
30:18
Whereas like a sugar baby, sugar daddy is based on obviously like more of a connection.
30:22
So you don't even have to talk to the paper.
30:24
It's like, I don't talk to them about normal stuff because it's a persona.
30:27
And you're acting like the dominate tricks.
30:30
And so you're taking their money.
30:31
So I don't, I wouldn't ask about that.
30:32
You like send those screenshots and they like taking five grand.
30:36
There you go.
30:37
Yeah.
30:38
Yeah.
30:39
Yeah.
30:40
You've got it.
30:41
It's over.
30:42
You've done it.
30:43
Even the, even the term pay pig.
30:44
I'm like, oh my goodness.
30:45
It's like.
30:46
Yeah.
30:47
So when I, when I first read this, I remember sitting with it and I was like, that is not
30:52
okay.
30:53
Like you're taking advantage of people who were obviously in a, in a poor mental state
30:57
that they want to get rid of their money and like the dominance and like all of that.
31:01
And then I sat there and I was like, no, actually, if that's how they want to spend their
31:06
money or that, like what is what makes them feel good or that's how they, you know,
31:09
they're openly entitled on that to do that to them.
31:11
Yeah.
31:12
Yeah.
31:13
Yeah.
31:14
Yeah.
31:15
Yeah.
31:16
Yeah.
31:17
Yeah.
31:18
Yeah.
31:19
Yeah.
31:20
Yeah.
31:21
Yeah.
31:22
Yeah.
31:23
Yeah.
31:24
Yeah.
31:25
Yeah.
31:26
Yeah.
31:27
Yeah.
31:28
Yeah.
31:29
Yeah.
31:30
Yeah.
31:31
Yeah.
31:32
Yeah.
31:33
Yeah.
31:34
Yeah.
31:35
I'm not going to take your money.
31:36
This is like ever.
31:37
Yeah.
31:38
I don't know it like I'm just, yeah, I don't even know where I sit on this because it is.
31:41
I get that.
31:42
Yeah.
31:43
Yeah.
31:44
Yeah.
31:45
I get a lot of like, and that was me at the start as well.
31:47
I thought very uncomfortable, um, and I actually the very first time I logged into anyone's bank account,
31:49
I was like, you need to DM me that I have full permission to do this.
31:52
Because I'm not getting in trouble.
31:53
I was really scared to start too,
31:54
but I think there's what I've learned over time
31:56
is that you, I've rejected certain people
31:59
that don't wanna like work with this
32:00
because I don't think they either have enough money
32:02
to be doing it and I don't think they should be doing it.
32:05
Or I just, they're trying to talk all the time
32:06
and they find them to annoying.
32:08
But I think that you have to find the connection
32:11
with these people that you know that they're financially
32:13
kind of stable.
32:14
So I would never work with someone
32:15
that like has tendons to their name
32:17
because if one has no point for me, what's the point?
32:19
And second of all, I don't want to be causing pain
32:22
to someone that's never my intention behind this.
32:24
So it is a funny one though.
32:26
And it takes like a mentality shift
32:28
to be able to do that and to understand it
32:30
because you are, the point of it is not to fuck them over.
32:35
It's to provide a sexual experience
32:38
because it is sexual that they love.
32:40
And it's, in my opinion, I'm like,
32:42
what's the difference if I take 500 dollars out of your account
32:44
or you pay for a 500 dollar custom?
32:46
It's the same thing to me.
32:47
You're paying for a service.
32:49
You're paying for my time.
32:50
You're paying for something that's turning you on.
32:52
Do you have been a limit on what you will or wouldn't take
32:55
or is it totally dependent on how much money that person has?
32:58
It totally depends on how much money they make.
33:00
Some people don't want to be drained
33:01
and they actually just want to buy you stuff.
33:03
So I have a guy that buys me
33:04
and you work out set a week.
33:06
And I just pick like a crop shop
33:07
that take work out set all the ones
33:09
is a photo of me wearing it.
33:11
Do you see him as a girl?
33:11
Do you use his credit card?
33:12
Yeah, so I have like a PO box
33:15
and I'll just be like, right, I want this one.
33:16
Send it to my PO box.
33:17
Do you think it's so of them?
33:19
Can I send you a different PO box?
33:22
Yeah, yes.
33:23
You've got enough.
33:25
If you've got enough, we can't care.
33:27
I need some more.
33:28
Okay, please.
33:29
So you can basically log in to at any one time,
33:33
do you have a bunch of pay pigs as, I guess, clients
33:37
that you have their bank logins?
33:39
So you could say 10 different men.
33:41
You, I'm assuming it's mostly guys.
33:43
You could log into their accounts.
33:45
Yes, I have a lot of, a lot of bank details.
33:49
The funny thing is is that these guys,
33:51
like I said before, they can get freaked out a little bit.
33:54
Like it's just a very common thing with this fetish.
33:56
I don't know if it's because they think
33:57
they're going to go out of control with the money.
33:59
But oftentimes I'll have the account logins
34:02
and then they change the password
34:05
and like 10 minutes later.
34:06
And then I'm like, you know, it's going to be consequences
34:08
for that and then they always obviously give me
34:09
the password later.
34:10
So it's like an ever changing,
34:12
different stream of passwords.
34:13
I have to like keep up on.
34:15
And for the most of them, their families have no idea
34:17
because a big thing with Findom
34:19
is that they want to give you something to use against them.
34:25
A lot of them will do that.
34:26
So they'll say, I've been, you know, I'm being so bad.
34:28
Like I'm not going to, I'm not going to give you my password.
34:31
But I want you to make me do it.
34:33
And if I don't do it, here's my mum's phone number
34:35
and Facebook and you need a message here
34:36
that I love doing this.
34:38
And this is a photo of the one.
34:39
They'll give you something to use as revenge.
34:42
They always do this.
34:43
So if they don't do what you want by like letting you drain them
34:47
and like, you know, giving the password or whatever,
34:49
you have something to use against them.
34:51
This is fascinating.
34:54
And I want to do a whole bunch of training on it.
34:56
Yeah.
34:57
It is really interesting.
34:58
I forget how interesting it is.
35:00
How would you find out that this is what turns you on?
35:02
That's the biggest thing I'm like, must be right.
35:05
You're trying to figure it out.
35:06
You also, it's very easy to assume that like one or the other
35:10
are taking advantage of the other person.
35:12
But actually there could be so many situations where it's like,
35:15
it works so well for both of them
35:17
because they're both turned on by the difference in power
35:21
and financial status.
35:23
Absolutely.
35:24
Absolutely nice thing.
35:25
Yeah, I love it.
35:26
Like I find myself as well.
35:27
I get really turned on from it because I love feeling controlled
35:31
and I love like feeling like the power that everyone does.
35:35
But I do particularly.
35:36
So I get like a kick out of it.
35:37
They get a kick out of it.
35:38
It's like if you were in a, in a partnership,
35:43
we're in a couple where one earns more than the other
35:45
and then they're giving the other person an allowance.
35:50
Like that's so emesculating for whoever it is.
35:53
Like where is this, is that dynamic?
35:55
But it's like you're both benefiting.
35:57
You're both feeling empowered.
35:59
Like you're both feeling in control.
36:01
It's funny, isn't it?
36:02
Yeah, I'm just like so fascinated with, yeah.
36:07
And I'm so glad that we've had this conversation
36:09
because it like opens up, I feel like a bit of a prude
36:12
not even knowing that this exists.
36:14
So like, I don't know.
36:15
It's just, it's so interesting.
36:16
But I think a lot of men like to be controlled
36:19
and have like in a kind of role play kind of vibe.
36:22
They like to be donated.
36:23
And that's what I've learned.
36:24
It's like actually a lot of guys want to be like,
36:26
babyed and like look down on and humiliated it
36:30
for like a short time.
36:31
Do you think that platforms like only fans
36:34
are having a real positive effect
36:37
in terms of shifting those real traditional kind
36:40
and narratives of income, work, empowerment, dominance,
36:46
just like all of it, particularly for women, you know.
36:49
I personally think it's a great platform in that.
36:52
It allows you to control like you said, your content,
36:55
your income.
36:56
I think it's obviously still segmentized in society.
36:59
I think it's better than it was.
37:01
And we're obviously moving more towards acceptance
37:03
of all things, but it's sex work.
37:05
And sex work is not widely accepted.
37:09
But I think it's a really positive influence.
37:11
I think being able to control what you show,
37:14
what you're comfortable with, that is empowering.
37:16
As well as the fact that as a woman
37:18
and I'm sure we all experience this,
37:20
we are sexualized no matter what.
37:23
So it's like to me, it's like, well,
37:25
I'm still going to be sexualized either way.
37:26
I'm just going to put a price tag on this one
37:28
because this is a bit like I'm having to say
37:30
on how I'm sexualized in this instant.
37:32
I would love to get to a place one day where like,
37:36
we always talk that sex and money are two things
37:38
that like no one talks about.
37:40
Everyone feels uncomfortable talking,
37:41
lots of people feel uncomfortable talking about it.
37:44
But it is literally the two things
37:45
that make the world go around.
37:47
And it's like, yeah, and everyone loves it
37:50
and using your skills and your body to make money
37:55
is no different to someone in a corporate job
37:59
or in a trade that is using their skills.
38:03
And body, like if you're using it to like build a hell
38:07
or dig out a hole, it's like,
38:09
you're so using your body in a different way.
38:11
The difference is really what it comes down to
38:14
is just that it's sexual and society views
38:18
sexual physical acts as its own little thing that's shameful.
38:23
That's basically what it is.
38:24
Because there is no difference like a trade out there
38:26
building a house physically, putting bricks on
38:29
for which other compared to me stripping
38:31
and like making someone really happy that way,
38:33
there is not really, like we're just moving our bodies.
38:36
But it's just the fact that we've got the sexual component
38:39
that society decides that that's not as okay
38:42
and not as accepted.
38:43
And so that's what everyone I think thinks is a bit
38:46
as different, but you're right
38:47
and it really is no difference.
38:49
And that's what I hope is that like society has said
38:52
that like money is taboo, let's not talk about it.
38:54
It's greedy, it's gross.
38:55
It's, you know, let's not have those conversations.
38:58
And our role we're slowly starting to talk about that
39:02
and make it more normalized in society.
39:04
And I just hope that if it's my children
39:07
or my children's children or you know that the next thing
39:11
that's gonna be more normalized is sex.
39:15
Like it's gonna take a while to change,
39:16
but I hope that it will eventually get there.
39:18
I agree, I definitely agree.
39:20
And I also think that I think the world is getting there.
39:23
I think it's a slow thing.
39:25
I have even found in my few years on only fans,
39:28
like my four and a half years,
39:29
I think people are a lot more accepting of it now,
39:31
like year four, year four and a half, than year one.
39:35
Just in general conversations, guys I meet, talking to people,
39:38
I feel like it's a lot more normalized now
39:41
and even in four short years.
39:43
So my hope is that it does continue obviously
39:46
and people recognize that it is like, it is it.
39:49
I think it's quite a beautiful thing.
39:51
I don't know if that's the right word,
39:52
but in terms of because you, it's,
39:54
you could control what you do.
39:56
I find it quite empowering.
39:57
You don't have to do anything you're uncomfortable with.
39:59
You don't have to make porn, you don't have to make sex,
40:00
so you don't have to do that.
40:02
But you can earn some income off your body
40:04
in a way that you're comfortable with
40:05
and you're happy with it and you make so happy
40:06
and gets you excited and gets someone else excited.
40:09
And you know what, maybe that experience
40:10
for that guy or girl seeing that
40:12
was really meant a lot to them makes their day.
40:15
And like another day, if you're not hurting anyone,
40:17
I always say, if you're not actually hurting anyone,
40:20
who cares?
40:21
Do whatever you want, like who cares?
40:24
I think this whole conversation has changed my perspective
40:26
so much and for the best.
40:28
Also, you can, you know at the start
40:30
where you said one of the biggest misconceptions
40:31
is the idea that you're stupid
40:34
or that that's the only value you can bring to society
40:36
or that's the only option you have.
40:39
It is so incredibly obvious from this conversation
40:43
how much brain power and creativity and thought
40:48
and hard work goes into what you're doing
40:50
and that you are the total opposite of that.
40:53
Like it's not the sort of thing anyone could do.
40:55
Like you're talented and you're good at it
40:57
and you're a good business woman.
40:58
And I think that it's like fucking cool to see.
41:02
Thank you.
41:03
I'm really pleased that that was so nice to hear.
41:05
I don't hear that a lot from many people,
41:07
so that means a lot.
41:08
No, it's so inspiring.
41:09
And yeah, I've loved talking to you.
41:11
Thank you so much for being so open.
41:12
It's like really fascinating.
41:15
And yeah, hopefully we can check you in soon.
41:18
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
41:20
These conversations are designed to teach you
41:22
everything you need to know to be better with your money,
41:24
of saving, to investing, to talking with your friends
41:26
about your salaries or that stuff.
41:28
And if you like what you heard,
41:29
we would love if you could please hit subscribe
41:31
wherever you're listening and leave a comment.
41:33
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
41:35
And it only takes one second and it would really
41:37
make our week a month, our year.
41:39
Yeah, yeah, so please do it.
41:41
Okay, love you, bye.