Latest / Reframe / 14: Ken Duncan, People, Culture & photography mastery

Transcript

14: Ken Duncan, People, Culture & photography mastery · Reframe

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what truly fuels a creative mind?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: What ignites their passions and drives their creativity?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm Dean McGuire, an Australian fine art photographer.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: From the moment I stepped into the world of photography, I have been captivated by the community and the stories behind the lens.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Join me as we delve into humble beginnings, explore artistic visions, and discover how we as a collective reframe our minds through the power of creativity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to give a quick shout-out to the incredible team at Missy Filters Australia.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Missy offer world-class products, like high-quality filters with minimal colour casts, an impressive range of cinematic lenses, and various other accessories to fuel your creative endeavours.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Missy Australia actively supports the greater photography community through workshops, educational events, and live streaming webinars on YouTube and other social media channels.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: As a special treat, Missy Australia are offering all reframe listeners a store on a discount of 5% off.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can even combine this with sample buttons and other promotions for further discounts by using the code Reframe Podcast and check it out.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Visit Missyfilters.com.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: We also explore Ken's life in the Red Center and his connection with indigenous people.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Today we jump right into the conversation.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: And no one's story is more important than another person's story.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: But my thing is try and tell your story well.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Tell your story with light.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, photography is all about light.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I don't think is covered very much is the esoteric concept of photography.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um You know, I believe there's something happening out there bigger than us.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Not, you know, I think one of the things that's blocking the light on a lot of photographers is their own shadow.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: They're so they're so in control that they're not really sensing what's happening.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's hard for a lot of people to let go uh and sort of go, okay, I'm not sure why I'm here or what's happening, but I'm believing there's something bigger.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that that I find that exciting.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, not a lot of photographers really cover that area.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's funny.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I found exactly the same thing you're talking about.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I used to try to be very in control when I started out in photography, like planning my shoots to be exactly in the right spot at the right time, and I'd go there thousands of times, sometimes never getting a shot.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And once I met a lady who showed me about crystals and and universal energy, she told me about using a pendulum and said, Oh, you should use this and ask if you have permission to visit the location.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I started doing that, and then the light I started getting was out of control.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Should I go here today or should I go here today?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it would say yes, and I'd go there, and it'd be like the light would be out of control.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is so much more fun because I guess let the universe tell me if it's the right time to visit a location.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I so much success after that.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, the thought of control is quite an interesting thing.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're traveling on a planet at 108,000 kilometers per hour and rotating at 1,800 kilometers per hour.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So a little human being sitting on there, I'm in control, I've been controlled, you are dreamy.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: If God puts on the brakes for a nanosecond, you'll see how much control you've got, even if you've got your Nike grippers or whatever you call them.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: So and look, you know, if she wants to use crystals and all that, that's fine.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: That but there is a another dimension, a spiritual dimension going on, and I think that's not often not talked about, you know, because um I call it the fourth dimension.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that that I think you really gotta be open to rather than try and control it to see, you know, it's and whatever happens, just even if things sometimes are looking bad, stop often it's because you're so focused on what you're thinking you're there for.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Rather than letting go, okay, what's going on here?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and um then all of a sudden things start become clear.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Starts an adventure.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's um going through your photos earlier, I just was curious how much of the um like the Aboriginal culture and connection to country do you bring into your work, um, especially in the outback ones?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I love being with the Aboriginal people because they are very if you said to them the spiritual realm is real, they probably wouldn't well generalizing here, but a majority of say this they probably wouldn't say anything to your face, they just look at you, go, Oh yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: But behind your back, behind your back they think, what is wrong with that person?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Can't they see the light?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, can't they feel the wind?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: It'd be strange to them that you can't feel that thing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And this is unfortunately part of the Western culture that we are often disconnected from nature, creation, because we can't sense it anymore.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're so in control or we try or we try to control everything around us.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: The natural state of humanity is to be in control or to get comfortable.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: But um often your greater shots lay beyond your fears.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Usually when you're most uncomfortable as well.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you just you know, and yeah, so blah, blah, blah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's about right.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: What what would what would your favorite place be in the outpack?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh look, I really think about building relationships.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's another thing for photographers.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Most photographers take pictures.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do they partake though?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because I believe yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I need I believe you need to go to a place and often just spend time there.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes just you know, shake hands with the country.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Just say hi, you know, you know, just feel it, begin to feel it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then slowly it it can emerge, you know, you start to unfold the layers.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so um I love being with indigenous people.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: So out we're working with them because for me, that's I I want to help uh raise up a new generation of young and or and older indigenous photographers because they don't have access to the technology that we take for granted.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they're great storytellers, and they don't have the issue of not being able to sense creation, you know, they can really sense it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I had a lady friend of mine, Alison Malta, who's a very famous uh painter as well.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: She came down with a whole bunch of kids we bought down to the Central Coast to do a photo workshop.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and she was taking a photo of seagulls on a beach.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: And there was they weren't like this S pattern, but one was missing, you know, out of that S pattern, and they had their shadows cast onto the sand.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: But right where the one was missing, there was just the uh shadow of a seagull in flight.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Just perfectly based on that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's incredible.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Man, that is so lucky.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: He said, No, that was my grandmother.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: She was she just passed away and she was saying hello to me.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going, okay, photoship.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's a wait for your grandmother to turn up in the shadow in the picture.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's a spiritual connection, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a very different, you know, concept.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and I love that sort of side out of it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: But especially men, often men can be very anal.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, well, not really.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a man too, so I'm talking about myself too, you know.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: So but the thing is sometimes women are a more spiritually inclined, yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: But even they can be hardened just like a man or something like that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just a stubborn.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just think.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And even me as a Christian, I love it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I definitely believe in a creator, but also I'm always open because just when I think how big God can be, he just shows me something.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: I always go, oh my gosh, it's so much bigger.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you bring a lot of your your Christian beliefs into your photography, like you let the values of that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: I love people whatever they're in.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm not, you know, and just like I'm allowed, I I should be allowed to be who I am.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone should be allowed to be who they are.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like if that lady you're talking about finds pleasure in using crystals or pendants, good idea, go for it, you know.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: And because I think if you're secure in your own beliefs or faith, then why are you worried about what other people think?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I've got friends of all persuasions, all denominations, and I know some really good um, very interesting people.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love them all.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is one thing I've learned about the creator, yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Creation.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whether we believe in a creator or not, I believe and it believes in us.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, God is not a man or a woman, it is a force.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so He He loves us all, you know, and so um and I and myself as a Christian, I cop it sometimes from some religious people, and you know, it really like even sometimes I have to warn some of my assistants because I'm a Christian, all of a sudden sometimes some Christians they look like they've been baptized in lemon juice or something.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's so puckered up and so religious, and say, oh, you can't, you know, well, they come out with lines like like heaven and hell, and if you don't, you know, become a Christian, you're gonna go to hell.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And well, you know, so it's that kind of becomes the radicalization of where where any anything anyone believes in, if they go too far one way, they they can become like slightly radicalized.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: The key, the key to everything, I think, is love and acceptance and uh show what who you are and what you are rather than and to me, I'm not about trying to turn anyone to a Christian or anything like that.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just trying to open their eyes up to maybe there's something bigger than themselves because our world's in trouble right now.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, big dog.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Serious trouble.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and we need to really bring a message of hope.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I try to do.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Bring the beauty of nature into a person's home.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that can really transform a place.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've just done some big hospitals.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Man, we get so many people coming in, uh contacting us saying, I was on, I was fighting to stay alive.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I saw that picture and I thought, I want to go there.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: I want to go there.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like it drew them, you know, to give them something they wanted to be and go and see.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they did, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's the power of nature.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the last thing you want on your wall is what I call wally art, which is like some deep and meaningful thing that no one really knows, but it's like the Emperor's clothes wrapped in a big story, you know.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like we I think we need we need more of the beautiful nature, you know.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And even with photography, photography is being sometimes hijacked by the so-called fine art group, you know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like a sin to be a landscape, you know, like they think that you a landscape without a nude body in it or someone's willy hanging out is not appropriate, or you know, like it's the intrusion of humanity.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just think shoot it clean, bring it back as it is, capture it as you see it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's something I've always um liked about your work as well.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember seeing the first time I saw your work was when you sold those posters, and a lot of people had them.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And my my auntie and uncle.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: The Ken Dugan panograph.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And my my auntie uncle, they they loved your work.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it would have been about 10 years old.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw they had two of them.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was one from I think it was is it Burra Homestead?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Borough, yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Borough Homestead, and it was Craig's Hut.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: They had those two as opposed to, and I remember seeing those going, I love that.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what got me into photography.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I went to some of those locations.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, say, like Craig's Hut and um Wallace Hut.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I went to there and I've looked at it and I've gone, I'm standing right here, and it looks exactly how you shot it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So your connection in an image shows through as what the subject is, and that's something that's been played on my mind for many years as how natural your work is in comparison to the real place.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we try, you know.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing better than being there.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: But it's also about waiting for the right light.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Going back many times, sometimes the same location, just to wait for the right light.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Rather than, oh, I'm going to just stick in sky number 23.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now, look, I've got to say there is two styles of Togi, I believe.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: And one's called photo illustration.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: And one that's where don't allow the truth to get in the way of a good story.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I do.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: And that's fine.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's photo um realism to me, where you have to have a connection to the scene whereby if someone goes there, they go, okay, I can connect to this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're never going to necessarily be there at the same light or time or something like that, but it has to be, I'm sorry, you know, representation of the place.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, and it's not, you know, and the reason we need to do that is um there's nothing worse than a person thinks something real and goes to the place, well, hello, that's not even there.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they remove this building and this was gone, and they sort of they feel cheated.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I when you're doing photorealism, you need to, that's part of the story.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like what I've done here, I've tried to do this, and I wanted to bring in this sort of feeling because I'm trying to create this emotion, and that's really good, you know.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I think it's really good to be upfront with what you're doing, so you're not confusing the art world because what happens now?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: People come in and you may have got a really good shot that's taking you a lot of time to wait for the right light to get people come in and come in and say, Oh, that's just Photoshop, and you go, Oh, yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's sometimes the first question when they look at a bread.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that Photoshop?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a customer's first question.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I find 80% of the time.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sort of like and and there is a lot of Photoshop.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, another thing I think you've got to be very careful of photo awards.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh really?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're going to enter photo awards, yeah, make sure you know who the judges are.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: And do you really care what they think?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Are you in love with their work?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of these judges, I wouldn't buy their work.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: They're all they don't even they're not even photographers half the time.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: They're just people who are critics or whatever, or they've set themselves up as some you know, fine art whatever.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: So what you're gonna do is if you're gonna enter these competitions, look at who the judges are.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you're aspiring to one day sell work and make a living out of it, does this photographer that's judging or work or whoever it is, do they actually sell work?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do they make their living as a photographer?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or are they making their living as a journalist or some other thing or uh doing tours or doing photo workshops or something like this?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Who cares what they think about your work?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because if they can't sell their work, why do you care what they think?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's a very good point.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Or when you go to some of these photo clubs, and look, I love photo clubs because they're great, you know, people who have a love and passion for photography.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes these things get hijacked by Bob and Myrtle and you know, and and they have that there's Jack and Jill or whatever, and they're the judging committee, and they've gone and done a judging course.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, what is a judging course?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like so they intellectualize and analyze, and and so then everybody puts their photos in, oh look, that that Johnny really thinks he's doing something.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, no, no, that's a John Print now, we'll just mark that down, you know, and so anybody who's truly innovative is probably gonna get killed in that sort of scenario.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: And like often when I'm uh you know going through the bush and I accidentally triple something like that, and the camera goes off, I think, oh, that's an award-winning photo.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'll put that into the, you know, I won't mention the name of the awards, but it's a big awards, and I am just I look at the people that these judges judge and I think, are you serious?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, overthinking it.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is just like it's it's just ridiculous what is getting judged sometimes.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: So be careful that if you don't mind doing that, it's not a genuine unless if you want to go go to a competition, like I don't want to judge awards anymore because I found that when I do that, they'll have other judges.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now, no disrespect to the judges, but I don't want to be having been in there, and then all of a sudden these other judges who really aren't necessarily haven't been successful in the industry selling work or anything like that, could all of a sudden they just go far off to the left or right.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so a really beautiful picture just gets lost because it gets marked down by all of these other opinions who really how would they know what a good picture is if they're not selling work in in the market.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so it can send people, young people or anybody, off in the wrong direction.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: So they go off trying to win awards.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And all those I can relate to that, actually.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I got into that, and I was kind of I remember being uh sort of tutored into going into awards, and that's how you get it, get ahead.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it took me in a direction where uh to all my work that was getting created, it wasn't selling, wouldn't sell it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: We could never sell it.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not in the real world.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And once you bring it back the other way and completely forget about the awards, that's when you start selling the work, when you start just capturing what it is.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: The greatest award is when someone loves your work enough that they're willing to buy it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's now that's an opinion that is worth having.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, yeah, but then you know, the art world will say, Oh, you're just being commercial.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Unless you're commercial in photography, you won't stay alive.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone's got to be commercial, even the so-called fine art photographer, you know, he has to sell work.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they won't be taking it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: So there's, you know, but to me, is your work connecting with the people?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: The people, yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because you know, often the cheese and bicky set that I call, you know, who come and you have a an exhibition and you'll get all these cheese and bicky set who come along and oh, yes, look at this, and oh, he's used this, and oh, you know, and they try and dissect and intellectualize and stick the nose right up to the glass.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: You can always kill a photographer because they look from a picture from a foot away, you know, like and you know 60-inch print, yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so they now look, that's fine, but the trouble is um when they're intellectualizing, and you know, often they're not buyers anyhow, they just come in and they've got to have an opinion.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, this is I've been a collector of photography all my life, you know, because I love the art of photography.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not just my own photography, and this is what you've got to, I believe, get to a level where you've got to, it's not just about you, but you know, like I get more excitement out of seeing assistance, like I think interviewing Glenn and Danny and friends that uh I've had um input in over their lives.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I get more excited by their pictures than mine, you know, like you know, because I think, man, that's such a good picture.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now I don't feel the need that I have to go and do that picture.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I just get excited for them and I'll say, Oh, buy that one, because I don't have to get out of bed for that one, you know, I let someone else do it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: So what I try and do, photographers come into my gallery all the time, and that's why we're here to try and help people understand how to take photos that they like and sell them so they don't have to tell someone else's story or work for an art director or shooting cars, bras, and handlebars.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they can actually make work out of photographing what they love, what's inspiring, they're telling their own story.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: But photographers come in and you'll often tell them because they are looking at a print so close, and I'll go up and say, Oh, so you're a photographer.
• 21:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, how'd you know?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, you know, only a photographer does that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Anyhow, so I say, So, um, so with and I often don't tell them who I am or anything like that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll I'll say, So, would you like to sell work like Ken?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll go, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh, great.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, So you really believe in ph photography?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh, yeah, I'm right into photography.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, so so um whose work have you collected as a photographer?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh just my own.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, if you aspire to sell photography, how are you ever gonna sell yeah photography if you yourself have never bought photograph by it?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and even if it's not a big print, like whatever.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: You go out there, you've got a A whole bunch of books or whatever.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Buy a book if you can't afford a print.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I've done.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've got two of your books sitting at home.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a Glenn's a photo of Glenn sitting up on my wall.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm totally with you.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like, why bother taking someone else's credit when you can just buy theirs and do your own thing?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's but it's getting why it's get them to do it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because I really don't care if people buy my work or not.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: But a photographer, I'm trying to get them to say, you need to have a love for the industry, not just your own work.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because when I'm selling, my attitude is I will tell them about the process.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And there is, you you, as a photographer, should be producing your work to the highest standard, not just doing plastic fantastics or you know, face mountings and all these different things.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: You need to have prints that are going to last.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can use the other mediums, but you've got to tell people really what the last quality, what they're buying.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you're meant to be the professional, you know.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: But you're telling them about the technology, but then you're not going to tell someone what to like.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's a reaction they have.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: They just see that print and go, wow, I want that print.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So then they've got to make a in their own mind, okay, it's going to cost this much money.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, the when when they're buying things, they need to know that what they're buying is not just a frivolous sort of purchase.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: So they're buying something of quality that's going to last and appreciate.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I can uh when I'm talking about collecting photography, I know what photography, what happens with it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: An Ansel Adams back in 1980 before he passed away, you could buy an Ansel Adams for 1500 US.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're looking at some of his pictures of over 900,000 US.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: So now, not that I've ever collected for the money.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: But one day I want to have a another gallery where I can show a collection of pictures I've collected over the years because I love having some of the beautiful pictures that I can put up in my home.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: And also if you aspire to selling work or photography as an art form, in your house, do you have proper lighting?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: In your house, do you have proper hanging tracks?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is are the walls in your own home a gallery?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, you should people say, Oh, I don't have a gallery.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, you have a home.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have a home.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to start there.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny because I've got a space at the front of my house.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken to Carl about it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting at home with my wife going, what are we going to do with this empty space?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to sit in there.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I did float the question, I'm going, maybe I'll just turn it into a little gallery because I'm sitting there going, I can probably hang about 10 uh 20 by 20 inch square prints hanging off the wall.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I've actually gone and bought rails and tracks, and I purposely have got two big um like white LED lights, like down lights that will fill that fill that whole area.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's exactly the you're not you've nailed it on the head, I think.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: We spoke to another lady about that as well.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: An artist actually.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she's had an open house gallery where much like a garage sale, she just hung all her work up, put the lighting up.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, five thousand dollars in a weekend were the sales for her.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, absolutely stoked.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I I had a gallery come to my house and it was all done, done, dusted, put some nibbles on.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, well, there you go.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: You just made a gallery in your own property.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, but you see, this is what like um I I do exhibitions, and you know, sometimes people come in and the first question they'll say is, Oh, I don't have enough space.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as they say that, I know that they don't have hanging track in their house, and I know that they probably don't have lighting.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, 96% of more people don't have.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is ridiculous.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like in the old days, every house had picture airs in it.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: But along came Jiprock, and all of a sudden now we just have these bland wolves.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the thing is they spend a fortune on a kitchen, at least 40 grand on a kitchen, then your bathroom, you know, another 30, 40 grand on your tiling and all that, then they do their landscaping, and then they do all the other fittings and all this sort of stuff.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: But what do they do about their walls?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Which is the icing on the cake.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, to me, when I agree, yeah, when I go into a person's house, most people's walls in their house are just hanging spaces for stuff, for landfill.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, they got landfill on their wall because it's all just posters, printed, tacky stuff, and it's gonna fade.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, you know, and one of the biggest landfills on planet Earth is art that has been printed on rubbish stuff.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, so the thing is when you come into my house, I have proper lighting, it's all dimmable, and I can change my prints within minutes because I've got quite a collection, and I love to change them around.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: People come and go, oh my gosh, what do you got up there now?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, it's just fun.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so this to me is a huge market, and we need to be educating people because it can totally transform their house.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, fancy tiles in your bathroom is not going to cut it, really.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna really change your life.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's nice.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: But a beautiful picture than me having a stressful day, you look at that and you just go, wow, well, we've done big splashbacks, things like this, you know.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a huge market, but we've got to, as photographers, be living at ourselves, yep, and educating people about how to use photography to bring the beauty of nature into their homes.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because our biggest problem on planet Earth is not global warming, it's just we're disconnected from nature, full stop.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we are we we just trying to when you go up in a helicopter and look above and look down at what we've done in just over 200 years to this planet, it's shocking.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we just continue to do it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we need to sort of think more.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I'm shooting a lot of this stuff because a lot of it's under threat.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm sh on the Central Coast, I've just photographed a grandmother tree.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: I actually walked in, I was like, I haven't seen this print before.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, tell us the story behind it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this one, like nature cries out, is crying out.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: That tree, why I photographed it, and look, I cuddle trees, you know.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I look, I believe that tree's been there a thousand years, man, it's got energy.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'll give it a big cuddle.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Anyhow.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I I went to that tree and it's under threat.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's under threat by so-called uh indigenous landowners who are going into developing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is they're not the actual tribal elders who are doing this.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is all these polit political people who've taken control of a lot of this thing.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not going to enter into that subject because it's a major stuff.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Open up a can of worms there.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: But the bottom line is this grandmother tree, which is like a thousand years old and is a meeting place, is only from 300 yards above that, or meters above that, they're wanting to do a development on all this beautiful pristine forest, which is the water catchment area for that tree.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, so if they do that, it's going to severely potentially kill that tree.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm just thinking, how can this be happening from a landscapel who are meant to be indigenous people who are meant to be custodians of the land to protect it for future generations?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: Money talk.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Sell out just to build more houses, you know.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I shot that tree because to me it's bleeding, it's tears.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at it, there's crying.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because look, I think nature is crying out.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that for me, I just shot that tree.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm about to launch that.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And all money will go into fighting back to try and stop these people, you know, messing with the this uh area that's gonna be detrimental to this tree.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: So so I think we we've got to really buy, we're using our photography to get out there and bring that message to protect it for future generations.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I remember this is probably going back down the timeline, that the same sort of message, but you got in trouble for taking photos of barangaroo in Sydney, yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many years ago.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I I want to bring that up because I was talking to some friends of mine and they were excited that we were talking to you because they're like, we love Ken's work.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then they was talking about that march that you did as well through the city.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was so proud of photographers.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: We I joined on that march because I I was there.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um because I around that same time I got in trouble because I was taking photos of the opera house.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the security guard comes up, you can't be.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I said it's public property.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I I didn't have like I was a bit younger then, and I'm like, I'll just, you know, whatever.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll go, I'll move on.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: But then I saw your article, and the message that you sent through that point with through your photography and that march is it was incredible.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the power of a photograph, in my opinion.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was so proud of the industry then, because we have at least 1,500 more people turn up to, and that's all we've got to do.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to stand up.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, like even now, I think it's time for a revolution on a lot of issues.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Not a violent revolution, but more a love revolution.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's going on in the world now when you've got political leaders, no matter what persuasion, liberal, labor, whatever they want to call themselves.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: They're all the same.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're all the same, you know.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, they want to say, trust us, like, hello, that's an oxymoron, you know, from past experience.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure there's some good ones amongst it, but they get unfortunately swallowed by this uh whole group thinking.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we need to um, I just think what's happening over in Ukraine and um also how you've got in America, you've got a a president who's he's got Alzheimer's.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Look, he's probably a lovely guy, but he's not the guy to be running a big nation like that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, Trump, you've got a Trump, and they're all cartoon characters.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Then you've got Vladimir Putin, who's just a really angry person, you know.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you've got Kim Jong Jung was.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he's like a cartoon character.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, he's just it's how do we get this way?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe we need to have another like uh 60s revolution where we just the love-in or something like this and saying, enough, you leaders.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: We we don't want war, we don't want all this stuff, we want a beautiful new world, you know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the I think that's a really good role for photographers for us to say, look, this is what we're protecting.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's time to stop this stupidity, you know?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because the planet's in trouble and we're in trouble.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't really matter if you're a landscape photographer or you're a fine art photographer, or it's all about the message, I guess you're you're producing too.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a street photographer.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the I love that.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's well look great.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Cardia Brasant, different people like that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, yeah, we've got some great yeah, so it's all different genres.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love landscape because um it's just nature, you know.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like Garden of Eden's still there, but we're busily trying to sell it off.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and build over the top of it.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, look, fighting for rights, this is what you gotta do, you know, like because it's just ridiculous.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're trying to put copyright, even Ularu, I call it Ulder Rules and Caca Don't and all these things, and you've got to fight back because under common law rights, you cannot take away a person's common law rights.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because the only way they get away with all these rules and regulations is because the Biodiversity Conservation Act of 1999, and in it, and it's a 380-page document, because you know, bureaucrats they just can't write a simple.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: They just make you read a thing.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it, you know, the expression the devil's always in the detail, what it is, you know, because in that is that thing, but you cannot take photographs in or have commercial uh gain without paying permissions or royalties and all this sort of stuff.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: And and so just that one little line, they try and enforce all this stuff on that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: But under the constitution, under the constitution, or you cannot take away a person's rights without due compensation or due consideration or due consultation.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: So there's never been any consultation.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, you're not going to be able to photograph a rule, you're not gonna be able to do this.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is just the new way.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's something that could you could challenge in court, and you know, like at someday I'll probably end up in the jail because I refuse uh to do this because you're you're I'm doing it, not for me, because I have great relationships with a lot of indigenous people and everything like that anyhow.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and also you've got to understand that a lot of these places that have become landmarks like Sydney, to get the Olympics, we photographed that, and our photographs were used to the submission to get grants and all this sort of stuff.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next minute, we're the problem.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like Borkakadu or Uru, all these people places the way they got listing was by using photographs to show how important the area was.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm always thinking of the new generation because in my day, you could just go and take photos.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: I had a dream.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, I want to go and photograph Australia.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: I want to find out, to me, it was more finding a meaning to life.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: And use my camera.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you did that these days, you, for example, all of a sudden you have a dream.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're in Sydney and you're going to start your journey in Sydney.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: So now you're going to go and shoot Bondi Beach.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: You have to go and get a permit.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: You'd have to go and see Waverley Council.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then you've got to, you know, so they've got to fill out all this form and you've got to tell them when you're going to come.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then you want to shoot the opera house.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now, where are you going to shoot it from?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: Are you going to shoot it from the park side?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Or are you going to shoot it from Sydney Foreshore Authority?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or underneath.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or underneath.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: So which body are you going to have to deal with before some guy comes up and wants to say you can't do this?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: What are you doing here?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Mind you, anybody with an iPhone can shoot the living daylights out of them.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I I agree.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: They're getting so good.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, how are they going to enforce that?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And guess what?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: The only person they can enforce it is an Australian because all these laws are unenforceable internationally.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the only person they're going to crucify is the poor little Australian photographer who's got a dream to do a book on Australia.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: So now he wants to go and shoot on the northern beaches.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now there he's got to deal with Manley Council, which council he's got to deal with there.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then he wants to go and shoot, say, some of the national parks, Karingai National Park, maybe go up into the Blue Mountains.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, really, if you're doing a book, that's commercial purpose.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: So therefore, you should have permits, permits, permits.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: You haven't even got out of Sydney.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: What photographer can do this?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's if we're going to play this game, you know?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: So enough.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: What they've got to do is bring back the ability to have freedom for photography.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: For people to tell their stories.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: No one owns creation.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Creation owns us.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the basis of the indigenous belief that we do not own the land.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: The land owns us.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: But now all of a sudden it's all let's divide up our little bits.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to take a photo of my thing, you're going to have to pay.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like, oh gosh.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: So basically find back.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: It loads down, and it'd be it's a pity that it's been that's happened, hasn't it?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, people, when I did that, you know, like I was photographing for a friend of mine who did all the sandstone work.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't a commercial.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Wasn't a quarry out of gossip door.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Gossip quarries are really nice people.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: They're helping me with the work I'm doing with the Aboriginals.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're just a mate, just doing some shots in the next minute.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: What are you doing here?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: This guy saying, you know, and he said, unless you stop taking photographs, I will get you arrested.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm saying, well, go ahead, make my day, you know, like this is but you know, but it just was ridiculous, you know.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so in the end, they capitulated.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, the thing is the law's got to be changed.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: They need to look at this.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone should be able to tell stories.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: And why I thought that was not for me, for the new generation.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: I want them to have you guys to have the same freedom and girls to have the same freedom I had as a photographer.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: We never heard of all this stuff.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: And what is the interesting, you've got more freedom in China than Australia.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: How can that?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I have no issues in China taking photographs.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've never been bailed up.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you went to some sensitive area, I'd be right.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but different.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing is, I've never had an issue shooting in China.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: So how did we get like land of the free, Australia?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I remember going through an architecture period, trying to photograph like mostly, I think, instead of as objects, as like parts of architecture to make it more abstract.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Everywhere I went into Sydney, I'd be kicked out exactly like you mentioned.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that turned me right off even bothering.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm going back to nature.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm out of here.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, even nature, you see, you're gonna have it.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, but just just no, just do it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Just do it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what I'm about to do.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to start a project in the city as well, in into Sydney.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna have some fun.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: We do need to fight.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like when we did that fight, arts that really put them on their feet.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, well, not that they really took attention because they thought, oh, they weren't expecting it.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: Photographers are willing to fight back.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so they've backed off a bit, but it hasn't gone away.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: These bureaucrats, like bureaucrats and politicians, they're killing us, you know.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: They're they are just rules, regulations, you know.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: We've just got to think it's time for them to lighten up, bring back some freedom.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: Especially in the arts.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Especially in the arts.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of freedom, I'd love to know how many Hawaiian shirts you have.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I remember that I'll just say going, he's always wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: I just had to No, no, well, not just Hawaiian, I've got Aboriginal shirts and all.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: I like stuff.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: I love colour.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love colour, and you know, yeah, I just think it distracts from my ugly head.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: When did you start wearing them actually?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've always known you to be in just style, right?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just style.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a lot of fun.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: I often I like I like colour, you know, and I just think it's fun.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: I love good patterns and stuff like that.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I like a present.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a lot of the Aboriginal friends who do paintings, and so we turn them into fabrics.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I might one day do a range of shirts using some of my friends' fabrics because I just think it's a bit of fun and also it brings money back to my original friends.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so then that's for me is the new generation, like you guys, you know.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here that I'd I'd like to help in any way I can, the new generation, but it's all about the print.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and that's what I'm not seeing enough of.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: All I'm seeing is is social media, and social media is not that social.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, how can you tell a real print from that little square on your phone?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, give me a break.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so people are shooting for the square on their phone.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, even they're dictating what format you need to shoot, you know.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you're not fit.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: The five by four vertical, right?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Get it out of the box.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Be this size or it doesn't fit.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, now what's for me, some of my shots, like the one of the giraffes in there called Fountain of Life.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that'll be at least a four gig file.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's shot with a phase one, it's a stitch of over six shots.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: With a hidden giraffe.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so you can, if you blow that up, you can see the eyebrows or the eyelashes on the giraffe.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, I love big.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: So how does that you look at it on your phone, you say, I thought I can see how many giraffes are on all this.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: But you just don't get the detail.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: You can't don't get you can't see all this stuff.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so therefore, a lot of photography has been done on phones or smartphones.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: And like for me, I love a camera still, you know.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I because I think it's like a process.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: Even even me, like I'm not a drone fan, you know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I get it.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: I reckon they, you know, go for it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's people who love that.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I want to hold the camera.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I want if I'm in a helicopter, I like that or a plane because I'm it's the fearless thing.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: You get more of a connection that way.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you once you look through that viewfinder and you're in the air, and you sometimes the frame just comes to you.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as opposed to looking at a tiny little screen, like a remote controlled car, like you're 10 years old, and you're driving it out, you're trying to get it in the exact right position.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's not as much freedom as when you're you're in the moment and you're turning your camera with a with a plane or a helicopter, you go, bang, that's it.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that feeling is like that's what connects you back to the land, I find.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just make sure you don't drop your camera out.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that too.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Get out of the strap.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or you'll connect with a person.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: On your printing big, do you think that's what if the bigger you go, is that I think for me, and I'd I'd like to know your side, when you hang it in people's homes and it's large, I think that's what draws the viewer into that location because then you can see the detail.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you can feel I find you can feel it better.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: So what's your opinion on that?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: See, people in homes try to enlarge their space.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they do dumb things like sticking a mirror in there, you know.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you see yourself as a five-direction.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you want to see yourself and reflect it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, okay, good luck.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Put a beautiful picture there.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: Window of nature, not just looking at yourself again and you know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now, so that's what photography does.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: It does, it turns your walls into windows.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now, why I love landscape is when it's a landscape, you're not looking at it going, do I like it, don't I like it?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're just going, wow.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like some of this, you know, um hedonistic stuff, which is what are they trying to say?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is it hung the right way or is it the wrong way?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just like so deep and many people uh the so they look at it and go, Do I like that or don't I like that?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like a painting.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: When you hang paintings up, you're analysing, do I like the painting or don't I?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to classic landscape, there's not an analysis, just go, wow, it resonates with us, connects, you know, if we've captured it properly.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I think for me, like I love landscape or nature, wildlife and things like that.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's uh capturing turning your walls into windows.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's the exact phrase.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's the exact phrase.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect, perfect.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to ask you a question about making a photograph as opposed to taking one as well.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um with your Boab tree photo with the red sand.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: That was fun.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's there's a great story behind that photograph.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was doing locations for the I still call Australia home thing for Qantas.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, they're a good company, it's, you know, especially in the old days, they were fun.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um, anyhow, the director said, Look, Ken, I want to get a boab tree, some boab trees in the red dirt, the pin dance soil.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh mate, you're not going to be able to probably get that really.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: It is there, but as soon as that pin dan dirt is very fertile, and what happens is usually, you know, grass and all these bushes grow up, so you don't get that clear unless someone's, you know, graded a paddock.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not into, you know, you know, damaging an environment or anything like that.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to go and just plow up a whole bunch of, you know, uh near boabs.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought, look, I reckon I know where I can do something in Derby.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: I said, there's some boabs out near the airstrip there that are on a floodplain.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's no just a little bit of grass there, nothing, you know, to worry about.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe I can get some pin-dan dirt and bring it in for tip.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so he said, You reckon I said, yeah, look, well, leave me to it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I flew in, I went into Derby to talk to the local, because I because I've been doing this for a while, I have a lot of friends in different places.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I went to the local guy and the mayor, and I said, Listen, this quantas need this sort of shot.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we want the red pin dan dirt, and we need the boab trees, you know, and look, I reckon what we can do if we could get some of the red dirt out of the tip because they're, you know, digging holes all the time, and we can just get some of your tonkatoys and spread it around those boabs out near the airstrip.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, what do you reckon?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because this is for Aquinas for Australia, you know.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, boys.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Yeah, Ken, we can do this.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's do it.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: He said, I said, What do what'll it cost him?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Oh, a case of beer.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I said, Oh, okay, beer economy, a case of beer.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Anyhow, so then I had to get kids, Aboriginal kids, because they wanted a lot of the Aboriginal kids.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: And because I know the community is out there really well, I went out and said, Listen, we need a bunch of kids.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: So what does the community need?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because quantas aren't short of dollars.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought, what do you guys need?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we'd really like some new computers for our schools that consider it done, you know.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I just said you're gonna get two new computers, good new Mac computers with all the stuff.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, and anyhow, so then I told them, look, I've got it set up, the show, bring the film crew.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: So they flew a plane in then with the other kids, those little kids in this.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: I still called Australia home things, and they flew in, and here was the set, right across from where they flew into Derby Airport, and they just came and said, I can't believe this.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a whole bunch of kids, we had sandwiches, and and like I took the shots.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: So what I did is I got the Tonka toys in, you know, like the big trucks and the grater, and then we got them to spread the dirt around, and then at the end I got them to just put this concentric patterns in the dirt.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so before it got totally trashed by all these kids and everything, you know, running through it.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, so that was not Photoshop, but that was a case of beer, what you can do for a case of beer and a few computers.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: But the guy couldn't believe that we're able to pull it off, and it was a great shot.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now, everybody went looking for that.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: To try and find that shot, you know.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: What had happened because we put the pin down to it, all of a sudden, everything grew there.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it covered it up right up.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: We had to go and we had to go and find it again, and um oh, I knew where it was, but we had to go and clear away some of that red dirt because it would just create this forest where there'd been none before, you know.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's not real.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: It created a new ecosystem by bringing the dirt.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we had to, yeah.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, but it it's a good it was straight location.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: So uh so that's how that came about.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you should make photographs, people.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's not really how you should make photographs.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the time, this is all the elements are there, but we don't think about it, you know.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I was over, you know, often the elements there, but we are so fixed in what we're trying to do.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: For example, finding a foreground is so important, you know, so in certain instances.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was shooting in Lake McDonald over in Montana, um, there were these really beautiful high boats.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just thought, I need they were yellow, I need this high boat.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I went to the lady and said, Look, do you think I can borrow one of these boats?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because are you going to be closed by the time I need to use it?
• 50:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, and I said, Look, if you if I can I hire one and I'll give it back to you at the end.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end, he said, that's what everyone says.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: All you photographers, you're all the same.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: You make promises, but you don't do them.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: And this, if you're a photographer out there, if you can say something to someone, please do what you say you're gonna do, because otherwise I'm gonna cop other photographers are gonna cop it later on.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Listen, I'm from Australia.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: I promise you, if you if I can do this, if you can help me, I will send you a photo, I'll make sure the boat gets back there.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, in the end, okay, look, I like your accent.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I like your accent.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, and I had an American assistant there with me, and she was really nice.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're nice to people, they generally they want to get into the the thing, you know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: They'll yeah, let's do it.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: Anyhow, so so we had this boat to play with, and it the water was so cold, and we didn't have swimmers uh swimmers or anything like that.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: So here we are, my assistant and I in our Reg Grundies, you know, like there wasn't anybody there, but all of a sudden this busload of old people came along, and there's these two guys with their undies stretching our backsides off with this yellow boat trying to position it to hold it still for a long exposure.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: In the end, you know, we were able to get some rocks to put it underneath the boat because my assistant was trying to hold the boat from behind, but he kept shaking so much that the boat was getting ripples and me, my legs had gone blue.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: But anyhow, we ended up getting the shot by and it was the boat just made the shot because it was just it was just gave it such great foreground.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then we sent back the shot to the lady, and she was so excited to get the shot.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: But often those elements, that's how you can get the shot.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, now those boats are there, they do go around, but we needed to position the boat.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: So often you go to areas.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: Another time there was a shot called Rattling Annie that we did of this old 1928 Buick or something.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: But when we went to the farm, we knew the car was there, we saw it, but it was all chicken wine around it.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was all really sad, this great old car just sitting there, chicken wine.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to the farmer and there was another photographer because he'd taken me to see this car, and I said, Look, great car, but it's in a really bad position.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: I said, we need to get the car and liberate it and get it out somewhere.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so he said, Oh, we he won't do that.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, you never know if you ask.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: I went into the farmer, I said, and he's watching TV, and he I said, Look, I know it's gonna sound funny, but you know that old truck out there, yeah, it where it is, we can't really photograph it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any chance that we can sort of maybe get it and bring it out into the wheat field?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: And this guy said, Oh, yeah, mate, I'm not doing anything.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, why not?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, and so because you asked, they get involved, and the next minute we pull this old truck out and he's positioning it with this crane thing.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was just quite amazing.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: And my photographer, the other photographer friend said, But that's not real.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Hello.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's right in front of you.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where's the car?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the car never moved from that spot.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: That was is it still there spot?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, it got sold because when people saw the photo, they wanted it, all of a sudden the car got sold and restored.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we actually liberated that car in the end.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: But so often a shot is getting people involved.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they, if you've got passion, people get excited by it.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: And look, that's one of the most uh important things that I can tell up and coming photographers is it's all about your passion.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not passionate, don't expect other people to be passionate.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: And don't ever allow your dreams to be measured by what's your money you have.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've never allowed that to happen.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: If you have a dream and you're passionate, people will see that passion in you and they'll want to be part of your vision.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because beautiful ideas attract money.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but you you've gotta but with that comes integrity.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure if you're gonna say you're gonna do something, you do it.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: You do it.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: You provide the print if you promise it every time.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you do so, I know, because we make promises and forget about the cost, but always deliver and you know, yeah.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there we I was in Mount Buffalo with uh with a partner of mine a long time ago.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a couple there that decided they want to get engaged.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, can you take a photo of us?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had my camera there, I was like, Yeah, I was I'll take the photo for you.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the first picture I processed when I got home was that photo.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I gotta send it to these people straight away.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: So then they're like, Oh, this guy's like a sham, he didn't do anything.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was the that was the first picture.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, live up to that, quick, quick.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Something I want to ask about, which um my old my dad used to listen to them a lot back in the day, and Midnight Oil.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: The concept of those um those covers, how'd you come about those?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, how did you create them?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: I knew the oils because their manager, Gary Morris or Gary Basicek, used to live with me, Manova.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like our house was party central.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was unreal.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: Good old days.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, you know.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I knew the guy, I knew everybody, and all of a sudden I was working in the photographing industry and very much in the high end of studio, selling studio equipment, laboratory gear, and also the mini-labs.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we started that in Australia.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we were very much involved in that.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: I had a house out of Monava, and I was making all this money, but it just wasn't really working for me because I just thought, you know, there's more to life than money, you know.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so that's when I'd found out about this panoramic camera.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was deciding that I needed to just go and photograph Australia with this camera.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody thought, oh my gosh, what's Kent doing?
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like this is ridiculous.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: He's got all this stuff and he's just gonna go.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so midnight all and Gary and all thought, what's happening with Ken?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like and I just disappeared for years, um finding out how to use this camera, spending time with the Aboriginals out in the bush on this journey.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I finally came back, they all said, What happened to where you been?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh, well, I'll show you some of the photos.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I showed them some of the photos, and they saw the one uh of Borough Homestead, the homestead, a shot on my white luxe, and they just went, Oh wow, man, this is really good.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Could we make it more intense?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is before Photoshop or anything like that.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: So what we did is we got that shot uh and then we did what a process called solarization.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: We we so we copied it and then did this chemical process on it to make it more like intense, you know, like that burnt skirt, scorched earth sort of look.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then we did that on the cover, um, and it sort of won all these awards for that cover.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then they said, Oh, can you do some shots for us, you know, with the white luck?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: So like uh rip shots.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: I go, okay.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: So here I am shooting like in a midnight off concert, standing on a chair, big chair, like a little ladder, actually.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in the middle of a midnight, right up the front.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: My my uh ladder's getting moved by the ground.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_03: Be honest with a wide lux, all I've got is a 15th of a second, none of this high-tech stuff.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: They only had three speeds, the 15th, one, twenty-fifth.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it rolls, it's a rolling shutter.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it's scanning.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm sitting there, and my wife is standing near the um um the big speaker stack.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: She couldn't hear for a day after it.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and she's throwing me, I'd throw her the roll of film, and then she'd throw me another one.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'd have to fight the crowd for it after time.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: So we did those shots, but then we did some shots out in, you know, out in Silverton and Cambalder.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: And these shots ended up winning all these international music awards.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so they contacted me and said, Oh, Ken, can you send us photos and um all of the uh bands you've shot?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I've only shot one.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: I said, and he said, Why not more?
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, at midnight, a good bunch of guys, you know, they really stand for the environment and stuff like that.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so but I I got a lot of offers to do band shots after that, but I I didn't want to become a band photographer.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, that was some I still think some of the shots I did there, the one especially in Lake Cambalda, where you've got the rainbow coming down a little bit.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's that that was a great shot.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, and that was a gift.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like the story behind that shot, it was a gift from God, you know.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no doubt about it.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, even the story, like it's an interesting story, that one, because what happened is I was there with three film crews.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now I was shooting that for Rolling Stone, America.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Gary, the manager, had said, Ken, I want you've got priority.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I had MTV France there, MTV Australia, and the film crew who were doing the blue sky mining thing.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so, but when I get there, the French team were really arrogant, you know.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: Not that all French are arrogant, but this lot they were really full of themselves.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so the next minute the Australians who are more down to earth, they're into arguments and everyone's fighting for an angle.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: And here I am trying to get time too.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized that if I added to the stress, it wasn't going to help anybody.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: So in the end, I sort of went to the um guys who were doing the film clips and the MTV Australia guy, Richard Wilkins and all of the said, Look, I'll try and create the piece, but as long as I get my turn at some stage, yeah, later on, you know.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I need this this and they said, Ken, that would be fantastic.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I worked on and how to deal with the French by they love wine.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: So just keep them plied with a bit of wine.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just muck around.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: And anyhow, they knew I was a Christian.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: Not that I, you know, that but somehow they they knew it.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how come you're not stressed?
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're meant to be getting shots.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Oh, well, it's okay, you know, I'm gonna get the shot one day.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: It'll happen.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because I just felt this piece that would I'd get a chance.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Anyhow, so finally I hadn't I I'd shoot around and try and shoot a few shots around, but I I knew I didn't have the big shot.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so um here comes the last day.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so all of a sudden, they've all got their shots and everything like that.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so early in the morning, it is so hot, like it's the hottest day on record.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: So all of a sudden I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do?
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I talked the midnight hall guys into going out in the middle of the day to the tailings out in Kalgooli.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: And the ground was so hot that the shoes were getting their feet were getting burnt through the shoes.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: And like Peter's, like, and everyone's dancing around me, and and I'm thinking, this is not working.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then I said, look, this is not working.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just go back to the swimming pool.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: And by this stage, everybody, they're all relaxing, and these beautiful girls from the French team, they're all there and they're very, you know, uh interesting little bikinis, not much of them, but they're all looking very relaxed.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: And they're saying, Gee, Ken, it's not looking really good, is it?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: The weather's really starting to, you know, come in.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's the best time.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, yeah, well, it was like big thunderstorms coming in and stuff like that.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, What are you gonna do?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna do?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh, it's okay, it's okay.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, oh my gosh.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Look, how about we go out to Lake Cambalda?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because we'd done some shooting there before.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I uh said, let's go to Lake Cambalda.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, we might get a shot out there.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm starting to think black and white.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now, when I'm starting to think black and white, I'm really not, you know.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: No disrespect to black and white, but the weather, I get it.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like David Oliver, a good mate of mine, he calls it grunge lighting.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, this is great black and white grunge, right?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, okay, so everybody said, Oh, can we come and watch?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, What do you want to come and watch?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because they, in a way, wanted to watch me burn, you know, because they knew I had to do this shoot for Rolling Stone.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd been Mr.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: Peace, love, and mung bean sandwiches to keep everybody, you know, yeah, happy.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden, so they all came out and they bought their drinks and SKIs and the girls to watch the birds.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: So behind where I'm taking that shot, I have got an entourage.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they're all they put there and they told me, Oh, we'll get a few pickup shots while we're there.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't get no pickup shots.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: They were too drunk to get a pickup shot.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: They were all watching you.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: They were all just sitting there watching me burn.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: They want to, you know, and I'm there with one of the roadies who's also Christian, and he and I have had a lot of party background, and anyhow, he's saying, gee, council, I'm looking really good.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, This is a typical God thing.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: Five minutes to 12.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Five minutes to 12, we're nearly there.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: He said, I said, Oh no.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so what's happening?
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: The weather's just getting worse.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden, a huge wind comes in.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you look in that shot, you'll see hats on some of the people.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: A couple of the other hats, they went off to New South Wales because you know, the wind was so bad.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm actually hanging on to my camera.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I'm going, give us a break.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, you know, um, Captain Dan in the storm on uh on that prawning trawler.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the best you can do?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, anyhow.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just thought, no, no, no, we'll we'll hang in there.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then they're all going, oh man, and we've only got probably about 15 minutes of light left.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, that big storm blew a hole in the clouds.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden the sun just went boom, hopped in, and so I got like trying to get the shot.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: All I can hear behind me is a blood curdling crying, like what's happened is they've tried to get their camera out, their movie camera.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_03: And in those days, they had like an umbilical cord attached to a recorder.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: Someone hold the recorder, someone have the camera.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, the cord had got wrapped around someone's head.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: So this guy's trying to pull and choking with their assistant.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is all I can hear, but I haven't got time to worry about that.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_03: I figured they'd work that out.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_03: And finally, I got the shot with the rainbow coming down and I positioned on Peter Garrett's head, and I just all of a sudden, when they finally got the camera untangled, everything's just too late.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_03: All the light was gone.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they they just went, they uh they went, Man, you're so lucky.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: I said, man, God turned up.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now that story got a bit blown out of proportion in the end because MTV did a an interview about that whole story.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: And the lady had said, you know, we're in Hyde Park doing a story and it was really the light was um bad, you know, was very full blight.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the guy said, It's too too bright.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_03: We need a some cloud coverage.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now, all of a sudden this cloud just came across and blocked the sun.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: And this lady said, What?
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: What's the heck?
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because she'd been told that when uh this happened that Ken had said, you know, God, can we have some better life?
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden it just happened and it was like some big parting of the wave.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't anything like that.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden she thought that this was somehow God doing it again.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it was funny because as soon as we finished the interview, the cloud went away.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, okay, I'm not ready for this.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: I've got too much parting to do.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: But it was so there was a divine element.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like she thought, but it was, you know, it's there's timing's everything.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: But man, it was so close, you know.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, but that's that shot.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna give credit to the to the band uh members as well, because they would have been you would have been facing them and they would have seen the commotion going up behind for them to stand the way they did and just skip.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been like a little bit different, we were just relaxing, yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: They were children.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, in a way, they you know, they're they're a good bunch of guys.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's the only reason I photographed them because I really, you know, they yeah, they're a great bunch of guys.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they're great photos, I can tell you that.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I used to just look at that and going, oh my god, look at that.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: Especially the one in the rainbow.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: But that one one day I reckon it'll be worth a lot of money, you know.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's probably worth a lot of money now, I guess.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're hard to get now, but yeah.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: But how many of them did you print?
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did you print many of those out?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: I know I think there's only a hundred of them.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, something like that.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not many at all.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to ask you about what the importance of community is to you and how you came to be so involved with the indigenous people.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can imagine it'd be difficult to initiate that connection, and then once you had it, you've you've built it to like this level.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a lot of the work for me, you see, I believe you inherit things physically, but you inherit things spiritually.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: So my pet mum and dad were the most amazing Christians you've ever met.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like unfortunately, sometimes there's a lot of hypocrisy done in the name of so-called God and really burns a lot of people.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I never had uh false examples.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: Not that that helped me, because I just thought this is far too simple.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I went totally the other way, you know, into Buddhism, Hinduism, habitual spiritualism, drugs, sex, whatever, you know.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I always had that phenomenal role model.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: And my mum and dad were missionaries up with the Kimbl yeah, up in the Kimbleys back in 1947, 48, 49, 50.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_03: So they were and so I grew up with all these old black and white photos that my dad had taken on his Kodak camera, and they're unbelievable photos to this day, you know.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and those photos really impacted me of an adventure in my parents' life.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because I believe in life we have windows, and this was probably one of the most exciting times of their life.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: They were in the most remotest part of Australia, sailing on a hurling lugger which was full of holes.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: They'd have to keep bilge pump going to try and keep up with it, you know.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_03: But here they were with the full tribal people coming in and trying to fight the government again, because the government, you know, were trying to push them into integration and they weren't ready for it.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: So my dad was up there really trying to help give them time to learn skills and find things they wanted.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: So my dad wasn't up there to bash them with the Bible, he was up there more to sort of um work with them and find out what things they like.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_03: So he found out they love working cattle.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now that was a hard journey to try and teach them how to not lose interest and then just walk off and leave all the cattle there.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_03: So but so a lot of the great horsemen probably came because of my dad's instilling this uh love in them.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I loved these photos, and those photos were what inspired me when all of a sudden I was making all this money in the photographic industry and you know, shooting all this sort of stuff.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I just thought money's not where it's at, possessions not where it's at.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And my dad was going back to the Kimberleys to spend time with these Aboriginal elders and find this missing cave.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just thought that's it.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm selling everything, um, I didn't sell my house, but I sold everything else.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I'm going.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was the those photos were what did it.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's where my journey really started.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I spent the time with those Aboriginals, and they initi I've been initiated and all those sort of stuff too.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so they really helped me understand connection to land.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've been traveling all through Australia and meeting up with the different tribes and elders, and now I'm a lot of my time is spent out in the Red Centre and certain areas out there.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's my favorite area of Australia.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_03: And soon we'll be doing trips out there where people will be able to come out there and experience some of those spectacular landscapes that you'll ever find.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_03: But it's about getting connected back.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, and I love it, but it is the biggest shame in our nation what is happening with our indigenous people in remote communities.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And this voice will do nothing for our Aboriginal people at all.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I am amazed at the stupidity of the media and of the general population.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have a clue what's happening out there.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is the process.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_03: All these bureaucrats and bureaucracy bureaus of the coalition of the peaks, they are the problem.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yet they think by adding another layer of bureaucracy, it's going to change anything because the instrument that's going to bring about any change is the coalition of the peaks.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it won't matter.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, the lands councils, the corruption going on there, it's huge.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking billions of dollars.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_03: This tree is under threat up in our area.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's meant to be being protected by so-called custodians, yet it's going to get turned into a development site.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a really big issue.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And what we need to do is they do have a voice, but we need to go out and talk to every individual group who want to bring about change and say, well, what do you want to do in your community?
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: What is it you want to do?
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And things that they love are photography, cinematography, music.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_03: They love the arts, tourism.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: So this is what we're doing.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I've gone out and we started up a foundation called Walker Wild.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: We found out what they want to do.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one of the things they wanted to do is build this amazing cross.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you know, you should have seen the grief we caught from so many government departments and people in general, people saving an opinion about the Aboriginals wanting to build a cross.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's their land.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_03: They can do what they want to do.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not the way it is.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_03: You see, Aboriginals don't own anything.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_03: You we think they own land.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_03: They don't own anything.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Corporations own it.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_03: They can't even do anything on their own land without permission from these corporations.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, like I've found out about how bad this system is.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_03: What we need to do, if we're really going to bring about change, is stop trying to do things from the top and see all the money disappear before it even gets to the need.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: What we need to do is go to the bottom, start from there, find out where the need is and talk to those people and say, what is it we need to do to help you walk with you to get you strong so that you are part of this thing.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it requires time.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like 80% of my time is spent with those people.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I'm very blessed because, you know, I don't have a lot of time necessarily.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I I've found a lot of photos I want to still take out there, but I don't have time for that because but when somehow I believe God is very gracious to me, because I'll go out there, and when I do go out there, somehow he just turns it on, you know, because he knows I don't have a lot of time for that.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it gives me the shots quicker so I can spend time doing stuff that really matters about helping bring a new generation.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because I refuse to see another generation of young kids growing up without hope.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the youth suicide rate, seven times our national average.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now, people all have this, you know, I I hear people, they they think the voice now, you know, Albanese gets up there and he says, well, you know, it's just a good thing, you know.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_03: You they need a voice.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_03: And trust us.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're talking about a document here, like, you know, that if you change that, it's just gonna get worse.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's just gonna get out of control.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, even myself, what happens with the Aboriginal industry?
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Just trying to build across.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very interesting concept.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_03: You'd have to go all through this process.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_03: You go to the Central Lands Council, they would do an interrogation.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_03: They spent years interrogating every Aboriginal, making sure that it was what they want.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_03: So no one can ever say it's someone else's idea.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_03: But then they would put roadblocks.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Every time you try and start to do something, oh, someone else, some person, white person's complained.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_03: So now we have to convene another meeting.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_03: They just keep doing this bureaucracy.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then so I go to another level.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_03: I ended up at the Prime Minister.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Look, this is out of control.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_03: I've to get to you, I've had to go through 12 people.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's shocking.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Ken, well, I'll we'll we'll change this.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna put you on to my advisor.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, come on, we're gonna do this.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_03: And you get on to the advisor, and guess we end up back at the beginning again.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_03: This is how the government bureaucracy works.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a holding pattern.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_03: They put you in a holding pattern until you run out of fuel.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'd end up three times back at this beginning point.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And this lady said to me, haven't you given up yet?
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you realize everybody's tried everything?
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_03: It'll never work.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the way it is.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: You need to get used to it.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Listen, with an attitude like that, you shouldn't be in this job.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know what?
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm never going to give up.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to keep going until we get this thing through.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_03: So get used to my face.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_03: I wore her down because she ended up retiring.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we we've got the cross up, but now, you know, we're getting a center.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just we need to go in there and find out what each community does, get alongside them, walk a while with them.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_03: And there's plenty of people like you guys, I'm sure you'd love to come out there and other photographers.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Come out there and walk with some of these people.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Help them with your skills.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Teach them, you know.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is what we're going to do.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're going to come out there, it won't be some sanitized tour.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be come on out and let's take some photos and let's see what happens.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because what happened all of a sudden, they'll go, hmm, let's go here.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_03: And you'll go there and you think, what the heck?
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is amazing.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Why haven't I been here before?
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, now's the time, you know.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a new concept of going out photographing without, you know, trying to shoot postcards at everybody else's shots.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Just go out and see what happens.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds like a great idea.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good way to go.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_02: I also like your movement where you're restarting at what I'm going to call the customer and working backwards.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to their need and find out what you're doing.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, find out what they do.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what we need to do.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_03: And look, nothing against Albert Easy or all these politicians, but they're all the same.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like liberal Labour, you know, all these plans they've come up with.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_03: The poor Aboriginals are sitting out there going, oh, here we go.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Here's another one.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Another one.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here's another one.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they, you know, my Aboriginal elder friend out there, he says, we have a voice, but no one's listening.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_03: No one's listening to us.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it is like one of the big catchphrases in our society is trauma.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm triggered.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_03: We don't even understand trauma and triggering compared to some of the things that he's going through on a daily basis.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about an Uluru statement, you know, the biggest Uluru statement is this.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_03: They meant to, at Muta Jula, own that whole area there.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yalara, Muta Jula area, the Ezro of the whole area.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's millions and millions of dollars going into that thing.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_03: So how is it possible that the people in Muta Jula are living in third and fourth world conditions?
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're not allowed to go in there because if you went in there, you'd see the conditions they're living in and you'd ask the question: how is this possible with all this money?
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_03: So where is the money going?
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_03: To the top.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_03: And who manages it?
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Lands Council.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_03: So mind you, they own all this real estate in Alice Springs, yet the Aboriginals don't even own their own houses.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_03: They're living in rented properties on their own land.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_03: So there's an Uuru statement.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's happening there.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_03: This is happening all around Australia.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_03: All these mining royalties, they're not administered by the Aboriginal owners, they're by like lands councils.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, and you know, the mining companies, no wonder they're putting money into this voice for a yes, because they love it the way it is, because they can do willing and dealing.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and pay a pittance to the people, create division within the communities, all these big mining companies.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_02: It is funny you you say that with the not entering the community, because when you go to the Outback, you'll often hear that.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, you should go to the communities.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you went there, you'll see how bad that you can do it.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've been to I've been to Alice Springs for work.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I worked on a cricket up there.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was an eye-opener.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: You you go there and then yeah, you like I know the whole alcohol thing with the Aboriginal culture, but you go just there was security everywhere, looking at your ID, looking at this, and then they're and it's just why where's why is there no inclusiveness here?
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's disgusting.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that you got you got us walking through, allowed to do whatever you want to do, and then you've got these people just the Aboriginal culture, just sitting there, and you sit there going, This is ridiculous.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I said hello to a couple of the Aboriginals because they're just looking at you and went, hey mate, how you going?
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know this, and then then you see other people the same as us looking at you, going, like looking at you, like, what are you doing?
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm just being a person, I'm saying hello to the people.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: They just have it looking at me, I've made eye contact being nice.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: But just saying that's an eye-opener, that's for sure.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is just those springs.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but look, like any kids, if they've got nothing to do, they're bored.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so what happens is they're out in remote communities, so they're all on these so-called work-for-doll programs, or they keep changing the name, but basically you need to do nothing.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_03: So you're just sitting around, you you got very little to do.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_03: You're not paid a lot of money, you're just paid enough to stay alive.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the cost of food in the remote communities is twice the price in town.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then they need cars that they can drive, yet they're the people make money out of them by selling them these holders and forwards they bring up from South Australia or whatever.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so they pull their money together to buy a car that's not really designed for the outback.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_03: They end up getting destroyed.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_03: They end up getting it's just a cycle, you know, this whole this whole thing.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, and there's nothing, and now you're not allowed to go out to their communities.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, how are they gonna start a business?
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_03: The only people that are there are in the same uh point as them.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Then you've got people talking about, oh, it's all about education.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_03: But why do they need education if there's no jobs in their land?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because you've got to understand for them, connection to land is so important.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_03: They don't want to become little happy miners with a mortgage and living in Alice Springs.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_03: They want to stay connected to their land.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, what we need to do is create jobs and create technology learning centers in their remote communities to start giving them things to do that they love doing.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_03: We're doing music.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Some of the music we're recording out there is mind-blowing.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we we need to be out there.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, we've got no support from the government there, you know, because it's just now they spent 550 million in a Royal Commission into using custody up in Northern Territory.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you're talking about the problem, it hasn't got any better, has it?
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_03: If they'd given me$550 million, we would have had technology, creative centers, tourism centers in all these communities, and we would have had the kids out there, jobs, getting paid, starting businesses, mechanical shops, and getting them to the point where they can own their own houses, own their own cars, and that's what we have to do.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have to and it really sounds like the education needs to be flipped and given to us, not them.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, when you spend time, when you spend time with indigenous people, you come out like it's not when you're walking a while, it's not here I am, big white man helping you.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're helping you because when you come out there, a lot of photographers need to come out there and get a reality check and get past their own ego and find out, you know, you know, get connected to land.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because um, you know, like stuff will happen out there.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_03: I love just taking people out there and seeing what happens because some real twilight zone material happens out there.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: When do you plan on launching this?
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, with this.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're working, well, right now we're trying to get accommodation.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now there's a police station out there which has been abandoned, okay, for years.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Part of the intervention program, which was a failure of a program, you know, another cost it cost, I don't know, a couple of billion dollars that program, another failed program.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_03: But the building's just sitting there, just rotting.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_03: The police want to give it to us.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_03: We have to wait because now Central Lands Council has to convene a meeting.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's taken months and months and months.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is the political process in place.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, a voice, it's gonna make it even worse.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so the thing is we're just waiting.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like my wife is waiting for a meeting whereby we're trying to get all the elders together so there's no excuses because what they'll do is, oh, we couldn't get one elder, so we'll have to convene it.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_03: It could take years to make one meeting with these.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_03: So as soon as we get that building, we're up and away.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_03: So that's jobs straight away in the community.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're already training up, we're already training up some of the uh the guides, and it's not just photography, it's cultural tours, music tours.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, a lot of the the spiritual people want to go and do a pilgrimage out to the mountain because it is very pretty amazing when you get up there.
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to be able to, but we're fighting bureaucracy.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And now what should happen is we need a prime minister who's got balls.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can go in and say, listen, this is the issue, deal with these departments, tell them this is what we need is sign a paper now.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't got time to procrastinate.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_03: We need someone like that.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: And the voice is not going to be that thing.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've been to the prime minister's office and they just put you in the machine again.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_03: So whatever voice comes out will be put in the machine.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_03: We need a serious voice which listens to the people, or a serious ear that listens to the people and makes things happen.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is It's just shocking to hear like that's, you know, the media hear, you don't hear any of that because they don't want to hear or they don't want to voice.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it hearing it from you who's been out the country is is like I love it.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's refreshing, but it's good to hear.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're my family, you know.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not I like yeah.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_03: And look, photography, what it's not about who like a lot of people want to be a famous photographer or well, I don't know.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_03: There is no such thing, you know.
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of people are I like I've been doing it a while.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe people know about my work, but really the further I go on, the more average I get.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think be average because then you're open.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but when you think you're something good, you're too locked into something, you know.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_03: And help on the way, because often photographers, you know, I bought three photographers out there once before.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_03: One was a really good social media person, one was a really good videographer, and one was a very good photographer.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, they were out there, they're amazed at the scenery, they're going, oh, this is so fantastic, and oh, you know, and after three or four days, oh, this is such a privilege to be able to be out here, and this is so fresh.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah, so okay, you've been out here, and you see how they're living.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, what have you done with your gifts and talents to put back into this community?
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, well, what do you mean?
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, hang on, here you acknowledge really you're here because of my relationship with these people.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because so, what are you gonna do?
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And they went, Oh my gosh.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Yeah.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you need to help.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when you do that.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you go back there, you'll always be welcome.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're part of them.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_00: You get out with putting put some energy in the phone.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_03: So what taking photos?
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_03: How are you going to partake?
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_03: How are you because you're not just seeing things so you can just be a voyeur of life and watching people suffering.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to sometimes respond.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes use your use your talent and your gift to create this insight to how other people live to create awareness.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_03: How can it make a difference?
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, whether you believe in a God or not, I believe one day we'll all give an account of our life and what we did with our finances and what we did with the gifts we were given.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_03: If it's all about me, me, me, that's probably not a really good outcome.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're gonna you're gonna end your life with regret, aren't you?
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well.
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it gets to that point, then you're gonna go, well, what did I do?
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think the only thing that is value is what you can do for others on your journey through life.
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, anyhow, blah, blah.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're perfectly right.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think um the more you give, the easier it becomes to give.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then watching what flourishes from what you give to other people is often better than what you can do for yourself.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_03: And opportunities will open up.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_03: This is what photographers don't realise.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like um so I've been location sometimes, thinking I'm there to take photographs, but no, there's someone going through a crisis in their life.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's more important.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this is a person's life here, you know.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_03: When you are willing to be open to that, you'll get the shot in here, but you'll get it in a fraction of the time, and it'll just balls the latitude because you got your priorities right.
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_03: You got your priorities right, then you're given a gift.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're given a gift, it's like a gift.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that esoteric part of photography.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the balance.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is plenty of times where Carl and I will go out and take photos together, and then we're looking at we didn't even get the camera out of the back because we're just talking or we're watching and looking at what's going on around us, and yeah, it's taking it all in.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, yeah, we can go back there and take that photo, but it's that moment that is sometimes it's just more powerful.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Just for you, just who wants to get away.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's just so you can connect with nature.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you go away into the go away into the bush and it rains for seven days while you're on a camping trip.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even get the camera out of the bag because the weather's so bad.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd be drenched, covered in leeches.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of it, you're still happy because you've been out in nature reconnecting.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_02: And noodles taste so amazing out in the bush, don't they?
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have like dehydrated food that's still not even proper rehydrated, and it's still the best thing you've got to do.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, out there though, when with Aboriginals, you're walking through a supermarket.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what fascinates me.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_03: So some of the things we're doing out there now is we're with some of the elders out there, they haven't lost their culture.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_03: So they've got very much their culture out there.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so they're going to be training SAS and Bush skills.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_03: So when you come out there, they can start to show you all these bush tuckers and uh the greatest gift.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's amazing.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like that would I think that's something like everyone needs to learn from the Aboriginal people.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_03: They want to do horse riding out there, and they want to do uh we've got royal Brumbies.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_03: They all of a sudden they've gone and started getting the Brumbies, and now we've got to get saddles.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_03: But if people want to help, go to walkandwild.org.au and get a part of it, you know?
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll put that in our show notes for you, everybody, as well.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll pick it up for sure.
• 1:31:43
  SPEAKER_03: And look, the cross is one thing that they've done.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now, having a Christian community is helpful in many ways because one of the biggest problems in any communities and all these organizations like the lands councils, they create a lot of division in communities.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the concepts of Christianity is you know, you cannot not forgive.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like, Father, forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_03: So forgiveness is like the bedrock.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and if you know, so um, because we've been forgiven so much, who are we to judge others?
• 1:32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a really good thing to have.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that division can't be allowed to happen.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're there together.
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so so everyone's welcome out there.
• 1:32:34
  SPEAKER_03: When they built the cross, it wasn't to try and turn people into Christians.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that they wanted people to realize we are in a spiritual battle.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_03: There is a spiritual battle on it.
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Whether we believe it or not, it's on, you know, and there's also that spiritual dimension as photographers, whether we want to believe it or not.
• 1:32:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so this is the this is the thing that I'm more excited about.
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's not by preaching it people, you know, they need to have their own experience.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I believe when we take people out there, it's not about you're coming on a Christian camp or it's not though, you're just coming out into the beauty of nature and see what happens, you know, and be open.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_03: Are you brave enough to come out and be open?
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's and I just love when I take people out there, just watching what happens.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, some Aboriginal come out and say something to a person so out there and profound that the person just goes, What the heck?
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_03: What does happen?
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_03: How could you possibly know that about my life?
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's your innermost thoughts.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_03: So this is now when they have that experience, you don't have to tell about some plan of salvation or anyway.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's just go, what the heck?
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_03: It just opens them up to this well, there's this life changing out there.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and that's you know, and you coming out there supports them because it means you know, you're creating income streams.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, the music we're recording is mind blowing.
• 1:34:13
  SPEAKER_03: So because it comes from a lot of pain.
• 1:34:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we found the new Gurumel out there.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, his yeah, I've heard him wise in front of the um at a New Year's festival.
• 1:34:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's a standing as far as his photo at Sydney.
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_03: My photos were on the pillars of the background.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, were they?
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so they projected my photos when Garum was doing that.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_03: That was I I had shivers.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_03: Garumel, yeah, he's a Christian, you see.
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not about he was a spiritual person, too.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_03: And what is so good about Gormall, like he was going off to do a big concert in America, you know, like everybody wanted to go.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_03: But um his family were going fishing.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_03: So he thought it was more important to go fishing.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_03: And they all turned up the airport.
• 1:34:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where's Grumwell?
• 1:34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he's gone fishing with his family.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And no, we're talking huge concert in America, so they had to cancel it and re-establish it under the guise that you've got to grab that guy and take him and make sure he gets in the plane, you know.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I just thought, good on him.
• 1:35:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he went to walk about his dad because it was more important to be with family.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And he met up with Sting, but he didn't know Sting was.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And anyhow, Sting comes into the uh into the room to introduce me.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, hi, I'm Sting.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Oh, okay, okay.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then he walks out, who's that?
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's Sting, probably one of the most famous musicians.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really has well, I don't know him, but he knows me.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, so who's more famous?
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so yeah.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I I do believe Australia's got a great future and hope in the midst of this, but uh it lays in us, not more intellectualizing, and you know, we've got to back off on all this bureaucracy, it's just out of control.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, there's a point.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love landscape.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's not about it's about capturing nature, and nature is crying out.
• 1:36:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:36:09
  unknown: It's there.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's if we don't, we're gonna get our butts kicked.
• 1:36:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a final note right there.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna have a final note right there.
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_00: We can't we can't top that.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um Ken's time's quite uh important.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're gonna wrap it up there for today.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we really want to thank you for joining us today, mate.
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and and allowing us to do this episode here in your theatre and gallery.
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_03: So um well, we want to use this gallery in the future to launch more photographers.
• 1:36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the plan one day to create a situation because where people come and tell their story.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in my opinion, it's it's like the mecca of photography.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this place.
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful, beautiful gallery.
• 1:36:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can go have something to eat, look at some fantastic art.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the food's pretty good.
• 1:36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, we we had something to say before.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I'm hungry again, just thinking about it.
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, thanks again for joining us.
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and thank you, everybody, and we hope you got something about uh out of today's episode, and we'll jump on Ken's trip out back and back to country as well.
• 1:37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll put all those info that information in our show notes.
• 1:37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, everybody, and we'll catch you on our next episode.