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Transcript
- Lucas: So, Oatly. If you've seen their cartons — the ones with the weirdly honest, slightly sarcastic copy — you know they don't market like anyone else in the dairy aisle. Luna: Right, like the 'It's like milk, but made for humans' line. That's either brilliant or obnoxious, depending on who you ask. Lucas: Exactly. And that's the point. Oatly built a billion-dollar brand on anti-marketing — on being the brand that makes fun of advertising while doing it really well. And there's a lot we can learn from how they pulled that off without it backfiring. Luna: Before we dive in — if these marketing conversations have sparked something you've actually used, a couple of dollars a month is genuinely what keeps these going. Buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo, if you've gotten something out of them. It's a small thing that makes a real difference. Lucas: Yeah, that's the whole engine right there. No ads, no sponsors — just listeners who find value. Anyway, back to Oatly. Luna: So where does the anti-marketing thing actually start? Because Oatly's been around since the nineties, right? Lucas: Yeah, founded in Sweden in the mid-nineties by a guy named Rickard Öste, who was actually a food scientist. But for the first twenty years, they were pretty much a niche health brand. It wasn't until they brought in a creative director named John Schoolcraft around 2002 that they started to develop this voice — and even then, it took a while to really break through. Luna: So what changed? What made them go from niche to mainstream? Lucas: A few things. First, they started putting their packaging to work in a way no one else was. Instead of just listing ingredients and benefits, they used the carton like a tiny billboard for their personality. They printed long, self-deprecating essays, footnotes, even poems — all in that slightly awkward, human tone. Luna: It's like the package is having a conversation with you. I remember reading a carton that said 'We're not trying to win awards, but if we did, we'd thank our mothers.' Lucas: That's classic Schoolcraft. He's said that they don't want to sound like a company — they want to sound like a person. And that extends to their ads. The 'Wow, No Cow' campaign, which ran in the UK and Europe, was basically anti-advertising. The billboards just said 'Wow, No Cow' with a picture of milk being poured into a glass. No logo, no website, no product shot — just that cheeky tagline. Luna: And it got people talking, but also got them in trouble with the dairy industry, right? Lucas: Yeah, the UK ad regulator banned one of their TV spots in 2019. The ad showed a guy in a field singing about how 'it's like milk, but made for humans' — and the dairy industry complained that it was misleading and denigrating their product. The ban, though, became a marketing win. Oatly turned it into a press release that said 'We are banned in the UK' and used that to fuel even more coverage. Luna: So the controversy was the strategy. It's a bit of a double-edged sword, though. How do you keep that edge without becoming a parody of yourself? Lucas: That's the key question. A lot of brands try to be sarcastic and fail because it feels fake. Oatly's approach works because it's rooted in genuine transparency — they actually put their carbon footprint on every carton, which is a bold move when you're in a category that's known for greenwashing. They're saying: 'Here's exactly what we did, and you can judge.' Luna: That's a good point. The humor is the hook, but the real substance is that they're putting their numbers out there. That's why they can get away with being cheeky. Lucas: Exactly. Their sustainability reports are written in the same irreverent voice, and they even included a section in their annual report that said 'We know you probably didn't read the last one, so here's a one-page summary.' That consistency across every channel is what makes the brand feel authentic. Luna: I've also noticed they've been great at co-branding with third-wave coffee shops. That sort of built a cultural cachet before they even went big in the US. Lucas: That was a deliberate play. They positioned themselves as the barista's choice — the alt-milk that specialty coffee shops choose, not because of a big marketing budget, but because it steams better and tastes good. When they launched in the US in 2016, they didn't go straight to grocery. They went to indie coffee shops and got people to try it in lattes. That gave them credibility that a Super Bowl ad couldn't buy. Luna: So what's the lesson for a small business or a solo marketer listening to this? You don't have Oatly's budget, but you can still borrow the mindset. Lucas: I think the core takeaway is: find a voice that's distinctively human, and then back it up with real substance. You don't have to be sarcastic — but you can be honest in a way that's refreshing. If you sell a product, put your actual process out there. Show your costs, show your mistakes, show your behind the scenes. That's a form of anti-marketing: you're saying 'We don't need to spin this, here's the truth.' Luna: And don't be afraid to be polarizing, as long as you're not being offensive just for attention. Oatly's 'pretentious' tone is a deliberate part of the appeal. Lucas: Right. They've leaned into being 'pretentious' — they even had a campaign that said 'We're sorry we're pretentious' — and it works because they're self-aware. The moment they start acting like a typical corporation, they'd lose everything. Luna: So, do you think they can keep it up as they get bigger? They're owned by Blackstone now, which is about as corporate as it gets. Lucas: That's the test, isn't it? But there are signs that the brand voice can survive. They recently launched in new markets and they still use the same tone. The challenge is scaling that voice without diluting it. They need to make sure that every new hire, every new agency partner, understands that this isn't a campaign — it's the brand's DNA. Luna: It's also interesting that they've faced criticism for being owned by a big investor and for the sustainability claims being more complex than they seem. How does that factor in? Lucas: It's a real tension. Some consumers feel betrayed by the corporate ownership, and they have a point. But Oatly's response has been to double down on transparency. They published a report on their actual carbon impact versus dairy, and they've said they're not perfect. That's a more mature approach than trying to hide it. Luna: So 'we're not perfect' is part of the brand too. That's a brave thing to say in a world where everyone's trying to look flawless. Lucas: It is, and it's what keeps them relatable. The moment they start pretending to be something they're not, the whole house of cards falls down. The anti-marketing stance works because it's not a stunt — it's a philosophy that runs through their product, their packaging, their ads, and their investor communications. Luna: Alright, so if I'm a small brand, what's the first step I can take today to start injecting a bit of that anti-marketing spirit? Lucas: Start by writing a list of everything you're hiding from your customers — the boring stuff, the awkward stuff, the stuff you'd rather not mention. Then think about how you can turn that into a story. Maybe it's a 'how we price things' page on your site, or a blog post about a product flaw you fixed. That kind of honesty is exactly what Oatly does, and it's something any business can do tomorrow. Luna: That sounds almost too easy, but you're right — it's about shifting your mindset from 'how do we make ourselves look good' to 'how do we make ourselves feel real.' Lucas: And if you do that consistently, you'll not only stand out in a sea of samey marketing, you'll also build a brand that people actually feel connected to. That's the real ROI of anti-marketing. Luna: Thanks for breaking that down, Lucas. I'm genuinely tempted to start a 'we're not perfect' page for our own podcast now. Lucas: Ha, you probably should. If you do, let the listeners know — maybe they'll find it refreshing.