Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Secretome: The Next Frontier in Regenerative Medicine with Dr. Drew Taylor of Acorn Biolabs

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The Secretome: The Next Frontier in Regenerative Medicine with Dr. Drew Taylor of Acorn Biolabs · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Energy.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very, very special episode because we're finally going to be diving into the world of secretones.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of you are very confused in this whole regenerative aesthetic space and understanding obviously the terminologies, but more importantly, the the actual biological impact that a lot of the really great products that are coming out have on the body.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I'm so excited to introduce you guys to the CEO of Acorn Land, Drew Taylor.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Drew Taylor, welcome.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to be here.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, thanks so much for having me on, and I've definitely been looking forward to this conversation.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because Acorn is truly making a name for itself.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I can't wait to learn about the technology.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I said in the intro, like I feel like a lot of our listeners don't understand.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what is a secret home?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is a mechanism?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of these words have kind of popped up, I feel like, in the last five years, especially in the beauty and um aesthetic space, and nobody really understands.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive in, I'd love for you to walk us down memory lane.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: What made you uh, you know, want to start a company?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know your your background is in engineering, biomedical engineering.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, if you kind of tell us a little bit about that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I I always wanted to go into medicine.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um my dad was a doctor, my mom was a nurse, so grew up around healthcare and and uh um the other side of what I grew up on was baseball.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my dad actually played uh professional baseball and so totally followed in his footsteps, um, went off to the University of Michigan, played baseball there, and uh did an undergrad in biology, worked hard and finished up that um um a little bit ahead of schedule.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I jumped into a a master's program in molecular cell development of biology, which was a great introduction to stem cells for me and in at that time.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I I finished up you know my my playing baseball there and applied to medical school and was gonna head off.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually registered to stay in in Michigan for uh for med school.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I got an offer to uh to play professional baseball uh from the Blue Jacks, my hometown team.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a pretty exciting um exciting for me, obviously.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, that's that's the dream.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I did take a meeting with the dean and um foolishly tried to convince them to let me stay uh let me stay uh registered and try to balance both.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and um anyway, when the laughter stopped, it was uh um it was explained that that would have been uh a little bit too much.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's too much in-person uh required, and obviously like CPA you know better, it's just an impossible task to balance both those things.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think he did really appreciate what I was trying to accomplish.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so he actually suggested I look into other programs to continue my education because I was very passionate about trying to do that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I ended up very quickly applying to PhD programs, um, ended up accepting an offer from University of Toronto.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I thought that made sense because I had signed up the Jays and I uh was able to do a PhD in biomedical engineering and play at the same time, and uh, you know, worked it out with my professors that I would be gone for unfortunately a lot of the time because I was traveling around in the minor leagues.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it ended up being uh an amazing opportunity for me to pursue, continue to pursue both passions.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would say that you know, baseball ended up being a really big part of my life.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, played for a few years in the minors with the Blue Jays and in the Phillies and uh uh loved every minute of it.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Some arm injuries uh slowed down the progress there and and led to my eventual uh end of my baseball career.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh every baseball player at some point, you know, very few get to retire.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Most are told that they can't do it anymore.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me then, uh uh I was able to, you know, really leave that scenario um being thankful for baseball at the very least, of pushing me down this road of actually creating um treatments, because that's exactly what I had done for my PhD.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh investigating opportunities to use stem cells in a patient's own cells to develop uh regenerative medicine strategies for connective tissues.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that covers skin, hair, but then into orthopedics, uh, tendons, ligaments, and uh cartilage and bone.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's interesting that you did such a reroute, but that's really exciting about baseball.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know you had a baseball background.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was uh I was, you know, definitely um had a had an amazing experience with baseball.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, in the end, looking back on it, I'm really grateful for it because uh I I was gonna head off to medical school and and that would have been uh an amazing opportunity.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I really do feel like I'm I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and and uh on the development side of of regenerative medicine is is where I'm I'm most happy.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's I have so much respect for biomedical engineers because I've always like I remember being in medical school and I had a few friends that were in biomedical engineering, and I it's just to blow my mind, you know, how much like knowledge and just like innovation.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think a lot of these programs teach you how to become more, I don't know, think outside the box kind of um in a lot of ways.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know, I'm not surprised that you went into biomedical engineering because Acorn is so unique in what you guys are doing.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Biomed's a special program because it it's very diverse.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: You've got like the the people that are are just you know basic engineers, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is their bread and butter.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got people with uh you know biology and and uh physics and chemistry backgrounds coming into to the biomedical side from that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you end up having this very diverse class of people that had uh, you know, uh probably in my opinion right now, it's one of the most diverse um um like postgraduate degrees where you have from from you know people's bachelors being just across the board so differentiated.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that that provides a lot of collaboration um and and coming at things with different perspectives.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really grateful to be able to do that program.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now I I want to actually um dive into acorn because I think that what you guys are doing, obviously it's very cutting edge and regener, as you know, regenerative medicine, it's a vast, vast field, you know, and I think the applications are almost endless.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: But when I look at it, especially in aesthetics, more than anything, I see confusion, you know, and I see a lot of like questions not being answered.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it would be great if we could start by maybe some definitions, you know, for our listeners, because I know that, you know, for example, secretone, like what is a secretone?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why should people care about that versus like an exosome or any other term that's being thrown around right now?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of terms to be thrown out right now, and I would include stem cells in that as well, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think the the way that I think of all cells in the human body is is like a pyramid.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the very top of that pyramid, you have sperm, meat's egg, all of the potential in the world to become any different cell type, and that's exactly what happens during development.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that cell at the top can decide to roll down any of those three faces.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Once it's picked one of those faces, it can't go back up naturally, right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's chosen a path.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've got those three germ layers in our body, and and and then from there it continues to differentiate.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: At the bottom of that pyramid, you have all of the finite end cell types that are doing a job in our body.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a kidney cell, a liver cell, a skin cell, a hair follicular cell, all of all of these different cells.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: What um what people talk call stem cells is often a very broad word because halfway down that pyramid, we have adult stem cells that reside in pockets in our body that have the ability to become a multitude of different cell types.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they're multipotent cells.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: The only true pluripotent cell is that moment where spermates ache.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then we now have a technology um called reprogramming that allows us to take one of those end cell types, you know, at the bottom part of the period or even halfway up, and push it back up to the top of that pyramid.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do that and you reprogram that cell, it now gains the ability again to choose a different face in a roll down then.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a Nobel Prize winning discovery.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we have all of these cells around, and we call stem cells many different things, but being more specific about what those cells are, I think is important.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what most of the excitement around uh connective tissue regeneration that is being leveraged today, and that work is really focused on mesenchymal or mesenchymal stem cells, MSCs.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now these these are like halfway up the mountain, uh, they're on the mesoderm side of that pyramid, and essentially um they can become things like cartilage and bone, fat, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: They they have that mesoderm capacity.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so those cells reside in a few different areas in our bodies.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're in our bone marrow, they're dispersed through our fat, and they're also at the root and the the bulge region of our hair follow.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it's an amazing cell source that has really driven a tremendous amount of the potential we see in delivering value to patients.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, thinking about how we can deliver on that value today, there's a number of strategies to try to create opportunities to capture the value in stem cells.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: One of those is to take exosomes, which are released by stem cells.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're released by all cells almost, but uh they're released by in higher concentration of stem cells.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because when when we think of, for instance, that MSC stem cell in an adult patient, um, most people think they're patrolling around the bodies, becoming different cell types.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the actual reality is in our bodies, what stem cells typically do is uh move around in in general vicinities.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're not traveling super far unless they get into our circulatory system, but they're locally releasing molecules that are stimulating and promoting what the body needs from a production standpoint in the cells in that environment locally.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for instance, in the hair follicle, these MSCs really drive a lot of released molecules that then stimulate the dermal pathway, which is actually what produces the hair follicle, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: The hair shaft.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have a job where they're stimulating these other cells.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exosomes is one of the things that is released by these cells in high concentrations to deliver those signals.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's important because the exosome itself is not the signal, it's the contents of the exosome.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like packaging it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you want to describe what what stem cells are doing, they're like the Amazon prime truck driving through our neighborhood, releasing packages to homes or our cells as needed.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And those packages are exosomes.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's a little bit more elegant than that because essentially these exosomes have the ability not only to get to our front door, but they have the ability to actually get inside our cells or inside that home.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they actually unbox themselves inside.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that efficiency is what makes exosomes really exciting because you have a great degree of confidence that the contents of those exosomes are going to get delivered and have the opportunity to actually get delivered to that cell.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: The caveat is what's inside that package really matters.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a lot of the confusion and questions come into play because there's a massive flood in the space of all of these different products and all of these different avenues that are using words like exosome and secretone.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, defining it further is really required for us to understand the value that we're truly delivering.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's a really great explanation.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for walking through that, because I think that's really, really lost in translation.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just take it a step further.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you talked about exosome specifically, but I know that obviously cells are secreting a lot of things, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's a lot coming out of cells.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you look at something in a PQ dish, I mean, this is where I think it gets more complicated because then you have the conversation around growth factors come in, cytokines and you know, other proteins and peptides.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so, I mean, can you kind of help us parse through all of that?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what is what's uh, you know, really relevant there?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're really talking about is the entire spectrum of things that are released by our stem cells to actually stimulate cells in that niche.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and that entire secreted population of things is the secret tome.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the root word there is not secret, it's actually secretion.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so all of those elements, inclusive of exosomes, is what the secret tome is made of.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely a uh a major part of our work in understanding the secret tome and identifying the different areas that are delivering value to ourselves.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say that there's been a huge um um history of us trying to purify a singular compound, very much like pharma, and that singular compound, um, obviously you can define it very carefully, right?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can you can dose it very accurately, and there's some advantages there, but it's a very single thing that is going to hit a receptor or a pathway.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And our cells are very complex.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so with with the advent of regenerative medicine, we now have this opportunity to actually collect this pansia of opportunity from our own cells, which is what we do.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that secretome is what we collect and deliver back to physicians for them to apply with their patients.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: The secretome includes exosomes as the delivery vehicle, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they are there.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's also free molecules that are outside of those exosomes, either because they're they're larger or just produced separately.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Those include matrix molecules, the building blocks of of our cells and the tissue in between them, like hyaluronic acid, collagen, fibronectin, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: All of these um elements that are important for the structure and support around our cells.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's growth factors, some of the which we know PDGF, IGF1, um, you know, like DEGF, EGF, all of these different growth factors that hit different receptors on our cells and provide value.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that there's also adjacent to them these things called binding proteins.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, binding proteins are a different pathway of production, but they enhance the affinity or sometimes completely unlock the ability for the actual growth factors to bind to receptors.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And those are really important for some specific growth factors, like IgF-1, as an example.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are those are an essential piece that's sometimes neglected.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Beyond that, you have other proteins and peptides that you know are a big part of conversation today.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you have these these elements called cytokines and cytokines that actually modulate our inflammatory response.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so when they come from our own bodies, we have an ability to temper over-inflammation as well as maintain a base level of activity.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's important because inflammation is always about balance, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Too little or too much, and you're out of balance.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so these things help modulate that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, you have PDRN, and we we know this is popular from producing it from salmon and other sources.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in in our case, it can be derived from your very own cells.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so we actually get those building blocks, those polynucleotides that are so important for our ability, our cells' ability to divide, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So providing those nucleotides to actually reassemble that genetic code.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important for repair and it's important for cell division, and it's a resource.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so delivering that resource is also part of this.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that entire spectrum of of a lot of hot topics right now are contained within the C Bratome, and that's why we've targeted that really as an opportunity to deliver all of these multiple channels of value back to patients.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's so fascinating to me because I think for some reason, science always gets siloed, you know, and I think we get siloed because exactly what you said, you know, like pharma studies one compound, one molecule, and then figures out here's the cascade that's being elicited, you know.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then when you look at physiology, it's like an orchestra, it's always happening at the same time.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me personally, as a like a physiologist, I look at that and I'm like, yeah, that's the normal way the body responds, you know.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if certain receptors get turned on, the other ones are probably going to be more inclined to kind of marry and turn on together, you know, that kind of that whole idea, like I feel like it's gotten lost in biology for some reason, although that's just how the body functions, you know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're very complex systems, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's there's so many different areas.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and so this is why I'm a big proponent of of having this entire orchestra um instead of a singular instrument, uh, making sure that these things are working in concert together is is very important.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and everything is is needs to be in balance.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that, you know, our approach is to try to make these from your own cells, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we're producing them from your own cells, which means we're in a biological sphere that not only is identical to you, but also is physiologically relevant and not in excess.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think too much of anything is is a bad thing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of these things want to be in balance.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think one of the ways that we achieve that is actually having your own cells do that in an optimized way, obviously offsetting some of these effects of aging and other things.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got strategies to do that in the lab to make sure you get the best of uh best out of your cells.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So now, Drew, this is a question that comes up a lot, and it's about the age of an individual.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: When you're like working with anything autologous, people ask, you know, if somebody's like, say, 60 years old and their cells are also 60 years old, you know, they've been through so much.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: How I mean, how does that work?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to debunk this concept because there's so many people that are like, oh, it just doesn't work.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you get a result from a 60-year-old, they're not going to help you regenerate any anything.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: So how does, I mean, what is the real science there?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: So so that premise is based on mostly the greatest body of work around there is in in PRP, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so PRP, play Lidrich Plaza Plasma is a snapshot of our blood.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: We do a blood draw of specific volume.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a generalist, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not going straight to the source of a stem cell, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's it's the the blood delivering these things around our body.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it can be very effective.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there's there's certain protocols that are better than others, but essentially you're still taking a photograph of that patient's blood.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So however much growth factor is present in that plasma after you get rid of the red blood cells and the platelets um that you're keeping, that is a finite amount.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Even those platelets are not producing exosomes or growth factors, they become they're come preloaded, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So however much is in that it's not immutable, that's what you're delivering.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um in a system where you're actually taking that patient's cells and you're producing these factors over a period of time, you have the opportunity to skim that media, that production, and constantly collect them to amass higher volumes.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: This allows for older cells that might not be as efficient or producing as much volume, because they still produce these things just in a lower efficiency or lower amount.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: You still are able to collect those things over time and amass significant volumes.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um in studies we've shown if you do this method and that that we've patented and protected around generating secretome, you're able to actually offset about 85% of the loss over a 30-year period of age difference.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty significant.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Still, the advice is if you have the opportunity to lock in your cells, do it as early as possible.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we've treated patients with their own secret tomes as old as 87 and seen clinical results because we're really working hard to make sure they get the best out of their cells and amass quantities that actually hit thresholds before we release that product.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they know that they have a potent product that they're receiving back, still made from their own cells.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just may take the older cells a little bit of time to create the volumes that we really want to deliver back.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's the missing piece.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: No one talks about that, like actually concentrating the components, the point of like they're going to now you know deliver the results that we want.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: No one speaks about that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's a really important part.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And equally important, there's this entire other side.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you're doing autologist medicine, you're working one-to-one.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're dealing with that one patient, got one goal, one person receiving that value.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you start to look at allogenic approaches, where we're looking for donor cells, yes, you can go to a younger cell source that might be a little bit more efficient at producing these molecules.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um but unfortunately, in order to use those cells effectively, what is happening there are these protocols to expand those cells essentially and multiply them many, many times over.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: That idea of you know what we're creating here is a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, right?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Things do get blurry.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh ultimately, if you take this one sample of donated cells and you try to expand that to treat, you know, thousands and thousands of patients and hundreds and hundreds of doctors' offices, things are diluted very quickly.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that's really important to understand is how fast that aging process occurs.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: When we age our human bodies, that demand, it's obviously the exposure that we have, the exposome, but on top of that, it's the demand that we put on our cells to turn over.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so the more times we're asking ourselves and the more time that goes by of us continuing to ask our cells to refresh and renew and divide, um, that is the aging process.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Every time our cells divide, the telomers are shortening, like all of these different hallmarks of aging are accumulating.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: When we do that in the laboratory and expand these cells, we're basically taking decades worth of aging in the human body and fast forwarding through that in a matter of weeks or months of the lab.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a great study that came out by Hartman et al.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: To track this process.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: They looked at obviously the commercial endeavors to expand these cell lines to treat a multitude of patients with allergenic cells.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually showed that even if you take cells from a young individual like two to nine years old, going through those commercial processes with these cells to actually generate volumes to treat patients, those cells are now performing uh like 75 and 95, more like.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um, most patients we're trying to treat are still under 95, right?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this there's a very select few patients that might be benefiting from this process.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody else is losing.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is really important because everybody from a marketing perspective is talking about where the cells were sourced from.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: These are age zero cells.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: But what is even more important is how those cells were treated between the capture of them and the delivery of that product.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that in between is actually determining the value that you're saving, the age that's been induced onto those cells, and what the end product truly is.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, the the source of those cells is less interesting than what is actually the contents and the molecules that are still present and the performance of those cells at the time of capture.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's a big part of our work.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we have focused.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um, you know, and there's a we we did publish this work and it's readily available online.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's we've defined that that process and like that content that we actually are able to capture from your own cells um uh with a lot of detail.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's so that's really, really interesting because yeah, no, I've never heard about that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh what you're saying makes a lot of sense in that you do have to preserve the cells in the way that they're going to actually be, you know, in almost the most physiological compatible, you know, environment when they're dividing and they're continuing.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when it comes to like, I mean, you spoke about this, when it comes to like passage number, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like this gets spoken about a lot as well.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like they talk about either the source or they talk about, okay, MSC's maximum passage four.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's like that's about it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that's what we hear.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: What is your opinion on that?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like in terms of like how many times can we realistically get have these cells divide and still maintain their efficacy, you know, for producing what we want.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think I think a lot of it is is um you know based on on predicated work.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: There is a some variability out there, yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, there are studies that have shown that two passages is the limit.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think a lot of the work that Hartman work uh showed that four pass after four passages it drops off, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and you see it continue on to like eight, nine.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: But most commercial processes are passaging a dozen times or more.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: On the other side, not only in the cellular performance, but in if if truly the end product that we're collecting is the exosomes or the secretone, we have to look at that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because just looking at the cell's performance, there might be differences downstream in the production of these molecules.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's actually what we see in cells that have been passaged.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it happens much faster than in cells that age.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: The passaging, um, the rate that you would expect it in relative to the aging of the cells, it happens even faster because uh when you passage cells, there are differences.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: These cells uh tend to either dedifferentiate, which means they change, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Their morphology and their function.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's there's changes during that evolution.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, there's one really interesting study by Patel Adol that actually tracked this, and they looked at um the exosomes specifically after passogene cells.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And passogene is just a nerd word for replication events.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: But they showed, and then this is the work that showed after P4 you had a massive drop-off.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: After the fourth passage, you had a massive drop-off in the performance of the exosomes.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: The exosomes and their ability to actually help skin cells regenerate drop significantly.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: The other interesting part was the number of exosomes that those cells produced did not change.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Only their ability to actually influence regeneration in the skin.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about that from a product perspective, um advertising on a number of exosomes means very little.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: As an example, um, we did some analysis in the lab where we took a product that was boasting a trillion exosomes with a T, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we we evaluated the amount of protein.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So exosomes are mostly fat, right?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're a lipid layer, and then the contents, the growth factors of the protein.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the total protein in this one trillion exosomes was about three uh milligrams per microliter.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when we looked at uh the secretome, um, which only when we did our evaluation again, and I think that you know we're very rigorous with this, we had about five billion exosomes, different ways of counting exosomes, and that's a whole other topic.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do it right, we have five billion exosomes in our product, yet we had 15 milligrams of protein per milliliter.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we have three times as much protein and a massive fraction less amount of exosomes.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um, when you think about the products you're receiving and the actual deliverables that are potentially inside these exosomes or outside of them, um that's the value that I think I care much more about than the specific number, because unfortunately, we've seen that that number is less important than the content.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's really, really interesting to know that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think, you know, I would love to see these companies, a lot of the companies in the exome space now show us that data, you know, like did you quantify?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know some are now saying that, like, yeah, we've looked at the contents, we've done the, you know, like just simple tests like, you know, uh QPCR or whatever, but like they don't really disclose that information.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I mean, I guess a follow-up question for me is like, it should also matter what's there, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you can't just say, like, we have we have cytokines, we have growth factors, like which ones and why do they matter?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and what application is it being utilized in?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's like a huge, huge topic.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's something we're committed to continue to learn more about, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, we're at the infancy right now of this regenerative medicine space, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it is happening very quickly in aesthetics, partially because you can apply these things topically as cosmetic applications, and that allows for groups to get some data as well as some sales, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that allows them to understand their product more and more.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is happening in aesthetics first.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of the confusion is because you see this flood in a category of topical applications.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, I think that that you know there are great companies out there, you know, I definitively include us in that, that are trying to continue to expand to the knowledge around how these things are being delivered, understand better dosing strategies, understand um, you know, the frequency of applications and how these things are best paired with other modalities, right?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when they're being applied topically.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a number of groups that I think are are really um committed to making sure that they're taking the technology that they have and understanding how that can benefit patients in the best categories and deliver the most amount of value.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's lots of companies, in fact, unfortunately, there's more, um, that are literally just looking to um exclusively try to capitalize on an exciting area of regenerative medicine and sell a product and sell it at scale and and not necessarily um work to continue to increase the the value of what the patient's getting.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's in anything, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not exclusive.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're gonna have taxosomes or secret zones.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did that with nice and mind.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, like when we started any ingredient, I feel like in the in the aesthetics or beauty space, we just we blow it up to the point of like, you know, it just goes crazy.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: But no, it's very interesting though, because I I guess like really where this leads me to is understanding for acorn specifically, where do you guys educate the physicians, you know, and the and the providers in how to utilize this platform, you know, because this is very, very exciting.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, autologous, um, the autologous side of regenerative medicine to me is like I think the most you know logical way to approach this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like I think a lot of physicians, we don't get training in any of this.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just be honest.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: We don't get trained in residency, we don't get trained in medical school.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just wonder like, where is that like knowledge gap or have you seen a knowledge gap with providers?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you guys fill that?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there definitely is.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a big part of what you know, I definitely am trying to do is is be a source of of education.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, we are trying to deliver value to to patients, and obviously we have a commercial company, but at the same time, I think uh from a moral perspective, we are very much top to bottom at Acorn, making sure that we're putting the patient first.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we want physician partners that are working with that that endeavor in mind as well.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's a lot of of things out there, unfortunately, that you know we we get asked about all the time.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I I like to talk about our stuff more than than than other approaches, but it does come up.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So education is a big part of what we try to do, not just for the physicians uh on some of the molecular science and things, but uh patients as well.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Patients are coming in more educated than ever, and we try to to equip uh our medical partners to make sure that they can answer some of these questions, right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have so much information at our fingertips these days with uh with phones in our hands and now AI and all of these things, so we can ask a lot of questions really quick.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all of that being said, I think that the the end of where this regenerative medicine space is going is truly exciting.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we try to make sure that we are grounded in the principles that are going to unlock value today, but also tomorrow.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big part of why we educate around the importance of banking your own cells.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's only one of you.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: We want to capture that biology as young as possible and preserve it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And a big part of the innovation that we've brought is the ability to do that non-invasively.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So from simply plucking follicles from the back of the scalp, we don't have to go into the bone marrow or the iliac crust to harvest bone marrow to deliver these this next generation of applications.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so having this uh ability to do that in a physician's office easily and quickly and cost effectively for patients, I think there's there's a lot of people that just don't know that it that exists.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're trying to, you know, obviously make that known.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: The other side is really about making sure that there's a an understanding of what's available today and then the work that's going on to continue to add to that value.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, we've released a number of topical applications in in both skin and hair rejuvenation and regeneration.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: We have clinical trials that are running right now, uh, IRB approved and underway, um, where we are injecting patients um in a number of different areas, both for hair regeneration, skin rejuvenation.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: We even have applications that we're moving forward in orthopedics and fertility.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is um, I think the beginning of a very exciting time in leveraging these regenerative opportunities in the ontologous medicine and delivering patient value and increasing that value as we get more more either invasive or complex deliveries.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Makes sense.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think it's a it's a really, really interesting field.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's definitely in its infancy in a lot of ways.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm excited to see where it goes.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I just I wonder because I think there's a lot of um expectation setting that needs to happen, you know, for I think both cut, you know, consumers, but then also doctors, because I think we all get excited about we can regenerate our tissues, we can kind of turn back the clock a little bit, but then with the science, like I think a lot of us get lost in like what can we realistically expect?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so like what does that really look like?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you were to talk, if I came to you and I said, hey, listen, you know, I want to use this for my skin and I have wrinkles, I mean, do you think that's a realistic goal that we could look at with something like a regenerative product?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think that it should be um used in only certain areas right now?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just want to just curious, like what your thoughts are.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if delivered in the right way and reaching your cells, this is this has the absolute ability to rejuvenate those tissues and provide them with the resources to perform at a higher level.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've seen in our clinical study the reversal of fine lines and wrinkles.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: We've even seen the shallowing of some deep lines that that are you know nasal labial fold and forehead lines, etc.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um absolutely.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is not a filler, right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not filling that space with something that is mechanically providing um, you know, some volume.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: What we're doing is we're actually stimulating your tissues to perform at a higher level, which is inherently going to fill in some of those gaps that happen due to lack of performance, lack of volume, and age.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is a long game.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Regenerative medicine is a long game.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that you want to incorporate into your routine moving forward, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think the future of regenerative medicine, where all you know, everybody is using a night serum and a morning cream and all these different things, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to think about this.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have to go into your physician to receive these things right now at this level.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is something that we'll incorporate into those avenues, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that the next era, right, of of regenerative medicine is going to move very, very quick.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think expectation setting is is important, but also generating excitement equally is definitely a mission of ours.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when we do look at other technologies, right?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's this idea of making sure that patients are patient with the progress and allowing things to unfold the right way through trials, through study, through evidence-based medicine.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but people are anxious and they want to have some of these things right away.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them, it's outside of aesthetics, it's actually for their health and and they're desperate, right?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I very understand people that are pursuing these avenues aggressively.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do think we're in in that era where we're start starting to see that that massive upswing.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I compare this to even the development or discovery of flight, however you could perceive it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the Wright brothers in the early 1900s were able to make a plane, right?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a very simple plane travel, I think it was like 100 feet, right?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: But generated lift and all of those things that a plane does.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a phenomenal discovery, an amazing invention.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it wasn't providing a lot of value, right?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we've known about stem cells for quite a while, and there's been people working on understanding them better and how they can deliver value.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: In the in the terms of flight, it took 40 years before the first aircraft that could host passengers would be able to cross the Atlantic, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So now we've got a plane that will actually fly you as an individual, right, in society, and you can get value from getting to Europe fast, right?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or getting back from Europe fast, whatever.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um 40 years and the development of additional technologies and everything.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: But after that, it took only 10 years to go supersonic.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And within another 10 years, we'd landed on the moon.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the acceleration of these technologies happens extremely quickly.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're right now in the world of regenerative medicine, we're crossing the Atlantic.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: But in the next two decades, I think we're gonna you know go supersonic with it and land on the moon.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's so exciting.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, honestly, I'm I'm very, very excited about it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, don't get me wrong, I I have a lot of like skepticism just naturally about sort of as you should.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is your defense mechanism about sorting through which avenues are are are honestly um you know thinking about putting the patient first and driving value and and having exclusively uh uh or or on the opposite, exclusively just trying to sell a product.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's that that skepticism is something that every time I talk with a physician and they give that skepticism, I'm like, great, let me show you with data, right?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think that's that gets me excited because I uh that's a conversation I love to have.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's I mean, that's where it should go, though.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I that's why I asked you about the physician education component, because I feel like that's what we lack in is that we don't see the data and we don't see nobody explains it the way it should be explained.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's a I've seen this time and time again where you know, medicine, we all know it's ever evolving.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: We all know exactly the scenario you gave just now, you know, with um with flight.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: We know that in medicine it's been like that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: But for some reason, we get so stuck and we're like, okay, well, this I gotta see everything before I believe any part of it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's we gotta open the mind a little bit, you know, in that way.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you know, it's it's good to be curious and and and evaluate these things, you know, but obviously obviously the um have a level of scrutiny as well is I think is is is equally as important.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for us it's it's really about exposure and and having conversations with physicians.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the the only thing that I love to see is physicians not not not be skeptical, but take the time to just actually sit down with us and go through data and then um have some uh opportunity to experiment with the product itself, the secret home, and deliver that to their patients and actually witness the value in real time.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's where we are are, you know, probably slower than we'd like, but make making fantastic strides with working through some of those physicians.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the exposure we get is happening at conferences where we're presenting.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and physicians are are obviously getting exposed to this, this, this new tech.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a lot of a lot of what we do right now is is work with those curious physicians that are opening the door and saying, hey, tell me about what you're doing and investing the time and learning about it because physicians are super busy as you know, right?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have a lot of downtime.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really about finding groups that are saying, I want to be on the on the cutting edge, I want to be delivering the next gen of of medicine in that first wave and providing my patients that value.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so they are investing their own personal time and in learning about the different options, not just from us, but from others, and then and then picking the groups that they want to work with.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: That that's an effort, right?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's I think it's gonna change though.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think doctors are gonna be like, this is happening whether we like it or not, you know.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we got to understand it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like any drug that comes to market.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like at first, you're like, I don't know about this.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, we did this with metformin, you know.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: We were like, I don't know if everybody needs metformin.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Then everybody started using metformin.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: You saw diabetes, you know, rates change.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh, okay, it works.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're looking at it for longevity.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hear you there.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to know, like, if there's we have a lot of physicians that tune in, like, how do we get a hold of Acorn and how do we work with you if we want to, you know, get uh kind of tuned in with the platform?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean there's there's opportunities to engage with on socials, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can just, you know, direct message either the company or me and and and let us know that you'd be interested in learning more.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's also uh forms you can fill out on on the website.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can see some of your colleagues, obviously, they're using the product and leverage you know, we've got a a map of of the US and Canada on where it's available.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you can you can have some some validation by even reaching out to some of your colleagues that are using the product and asking them.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it is uh it's very easy to just fill out a quick form online with with a request for for me, and we'd love to schedule one and and chat you through the uh the tech.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that'd be really cool.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I really encourage everybody listening.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you are in the medical space, definitely take advantage of that.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is so cool.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is like this is how we get to expand, not only like as you know, in medicine, but I think in general in science.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to experiment, you have to learn, you have to open your mind.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited about what you're doing and really cheering acorn on.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it so much.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's been an exciting ride.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we talked a lot about uh about aesthetics today because that's where we're we're delivering these these areas of value.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what's really exciting is what's going on behind the scenes, right?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: We just produced a paper on on uh regeneration of cartilage tissue and a mouse model, and we're designing the the human experiments uh currently and talking with some physician partners that are really excited about that data.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you know, there's all these different uses of the cells long term.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, at the very least, you know, get your biologic health insurance policy, your own cells on ice, and then you can kind of make decisions on how you want to engage with actual treatments as you go on.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's just so cool to hear that, you know, because it's like the last time we heard this was I mean, IVF is the only example I can come up with is you know, preserving yourself, preserving yourself, basically.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and now there's more and more data to show how important that was for a lot of women, right?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I think this is equal.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much, Drew.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: This has been so so wonderful.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're you're truly like wonderful to talk to.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to have you back anytime if you have the time you're anytime.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I love it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for again for having me on and and uh excited for the next chat.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.