Latest / Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Mastery, Wealth Mindset, Leadership Principles, Intuitive Decision-Making, Human Design / Ep. 68 Letting go of goals and embracing your creative brain to thrive (with special guest Liam Naden)

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Ep. 68 Letting go of goals and embracing your creative brain to thrive (with special guest Liam Naden) · Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Mastery, Wealth Mindset, Leadership Principles, Intuitive Decision-Making, Human Design

0:00
Erin Gray: You're listening to generate a life Well-lived podcast.
0:02
Erin Gray: I'm your friend and confidant, erin gray.
0:04
Erin Gray: On this podcast, we will explore all things money, business and self-development, including human design.
0:10
Erin Gray: I hope you enjoy the journey where I share everything that I know and am continuing to learn a long way as I honor my heart's desires while inspiring and encouraging you to do the same.
0:20
Erin Gray: Hey, my friends, how are we today?
0:22
Erin Gray: So on today's podcast, I have Liam Naden.
0:25
Erin Gray: He is a transformational coach for entrepreneurs, business leaders and anyone seeking true success in life, which we're going to talk about the meaning of that here in a bit.
0:33
Erin Gray: He uniquely combines neuroscience, psychology and practical strategies to help ambitious success seekers I'm so fascinated now unlock their potential and achieve breakthroughs to live deeply balanced, purpose-driven lives.
0:49
Erin Gray: So thank you, liam, for being here, for sharing your time and knowledge with us.
0:54
Liam Naden: Thanks very much for having me here.
0:55
Liam Naden: I'm looking forward to it.
0:57
Erin Gray: Yeah, so you want to dive into success, or do you want to go first of like creative brain and survival brain, because I talk a lot about this as well?
1:04
Erin Gray: So what do you want to go first of like creative brain and survival brain, because I talk a lot about this as well.
1:05
Erin Gray: So what do you want to hit on first?
1:07
Liam Naden: Well, I don't mind, but maybe people will be interested in hearing what I'm really talking about and how I came to uncover all of this, because what I really hope for you and your listeners by the end of it is to realize that there's actually a way to solve any problem in your life surprisingly quickly and easily.
1:25
Liam Naden: But it comes from doing things in a completely different way, and if anyone's ever had one of those aha moments or you've just seen something work out really well and you've thought, well, was that luck or coincidence?
1:37
Liam Naden: There's actually a scientific and biological explanation for those and, even better, there's a way to create those moments at will, so you literally can create without getting woo-woo I'm talking science here.
1:51
Liam Naden: You can actually come up with those aha moments.
1:53
Liam Naden: You can come up with the right solutions and really, when you do and this is what I discovered through a life experience of actually going from a millionaire to losing everything when you do, you can put your life together any way you want in a much healthier.
2:07
Liam Naden: You mentioned the word balanced.
2:09
Liam Naden: You can do that.
2:10
Liam Naden: So that's really what I hope people will get out of this conversation.
2:15
Erin Gray: Yeah, let's dive in a little bit to your story, because I think that the people that I typically attract are people that already have money and they have a for lack of a better word like a fear of like not having enough or losing it, or like from a like we have generated from a very fear-based place.
2:36
Erin Gray: So I would love it if you're open to sharing just a little bit about your story and kind of like you know just take us through.
2:42
Erin Gray: Yeah, how you got there, and then all of the things.
2:43
Erin Gray: Yeah, well, it's the entrepreneur.
2:44
Erin Gray: Yeah, how you got there, and then all of the things yeah.
2:45
Liam Naden: Well, it's the entrepreneur's curse, isn't it?
2:47
Liam Naden: You know, I've been an entrepreneur all my life.
2:49
Liam Naden: I've had 18 different businesses to date, and it is the curse that we have this fear, mindset mentality that, no matter how much we have, we're never really happy, we're never really satisfied.
3:00
Liam Naden: We always and we're worried about it not being enough.
3:03
Liam Naden: And there's something else satisfied, we always and we're worried about it not being enough.
3:07
Liam Naden: And there's something else.
3:08
Liam Naden: And really this came home to me in a huge way a few years ago, when I remember it was actually on one particular day I remember really clearly because I was putting the finishing touches on building my dream home and it wasn't quite finished, but it almost was and one of my dreams was not only to build this mansion, which is really what it was, but I wanted to have my own music room as well, because I'd been a musician earlier in my life and I'd always dreamed of having this house with a music room.
3:35
Liam Naden: But I remember walking into this music room and sitting down and I had every reason to be happy with my life because I'd actually achieved all of my goals.
3:44
Liam Naden: I was a multi-millionaire, I had two businesses, I had this magnificent home and I had freedom to travel and do literally anything I wanted to do.
3:55
Liam Naden: But I remember sitting down and looking out these magnificent windows that I built in this music room with a view out to the mountains, and thinking I've made it, this is it.
4:08
Liam Naden: This is success.
4:09
Liam Naden: I've reached all my goals.
4:10
Liam Naden: I've got everything I could possibly imagine that I thought I'd ever want.
4:15
Liam Naden: But why is it that, instead of feeling great, I feel absolutely miserable.
4:20
Liam Naden: Why am I so stressed and unhappy and why is my head just full of all of the problems in my life?
4:27
Liam Naden: Because I had a mountain of problems and these things weren't going so well.
4:31
Liam Naden: My marriage wasn't going well and businesses weren't going as well as I wanted them to be.
4:36
Liam Naden: But even things that were going well, I couldn't really enjoy it, because I felt so stressed and it was like the life force was being drained out of me, you know, and I thought this is just absolutely crazy.
4:48
Liam Naden: You know what's life all about and I had this thought you know, maybe I'm on the wrong track here.
4:55
Liam Naden: Maybe it would be better just to lose everything, start all over again, because at least then I could keep my soul, because that's what it felt like my soul was being's what it felt like my soul was being, you know, drained here.
5:07
Liam Naden: Well, as I say, you need to be careful about what you think about, because it was literally within a couple of months.
5:13
Liam Naden: I did lose everything.
5:14
Liam Naden: I lost the house, the music room, my marriage, the businesses, and I went from, you know, living in this.
5:22
Liam Naden: And I went from, you know, living in this wonderful house, nice, comfortable bed, driving a Mercedes, to having to move back in with my elderly mother and sleep on the sofa in the living room of her small apartment.
5:34
Liam Naden: And I had nothing.
5:35
Liam Naden: I had an old car and a few clothes.
5:38
Liam Naden: That was it.
5:38
Liam Naden: And you know, when you say you're prepared to lose everything, I didn't realize what losing everything meant, because it's not just losing your stuff, it's not just losing your friends and your family, it's losing your purpose, your sense of who you are.
5:55
Liam Naden: And I was in such a low place and I had all of this stuff going around in my head and I was so confused and I had two questions that I kept asking myself, and the first one was why has this happened to me?
6:08
Liam Naden: Because I was a good person, I hadn't defrauded people to get my money, I'd worked so hard all my life, I've been really honest and, as well as trying hard, I'd always studied success.
6:22
Liam Naden: I used to go to lots of seminars and workshops and read books.
6:24
Liam Naden: You know I had a great library.
6:26
Liam Naden: I did have a great library of all sorts of books on personal development, self-help, motivation, changing your beliefs, your subconscious mind, spirituality, religious practices.
6:40
Liam Naden: I'd studied all of these things, goal setting, but none of it had helped because it wasn't on my goals list to lose everything and I had my goals list well and truly defined.
6:52
Liam Naden: So I kept asking myself why has this happened to me?
6:54
Liam Naden: And the other question I kept asking was what do I do now?
6:59
Liam Naden: What do I do now?
7:00
Liam Naden: Because I had no opportunities.
7:02
Liam Naden: I didn't know anybody in this town.
7:04
Liam Naden: Everything had gone, and the funny thing was I had no answer for either of those questions.
7:08
Liam Naden: The more I thought about it, the more I tried to figure it out as to why it was happening and what to do.
7:15
Liam Naden: I just couldn't come up with an idea.
7:17
Liam Naden: My head was just so full of stress and confusion.
7:20
Liam Naden: But what I didn't realize is well, actually, what I did was something that I don't think I would have ever have done if I hadn't been in that situation, if I hadn't been in such a desperate situation and what I did was I gave up.
7:36
Liam Naden: I gave up and I said that's it, I'm done.
7:41
Erin Gray: Like, as some people would say, like surrender.
7:42
Erin Gray: Is that like when you say gave up, you're just like, okay, letting go and a surrender right?
7:47
Erin Gray: Is that what you're saying?
7:48
Liam Naden: Not really, because I think surrender, we think, well, I'll just let go and this higher power will take over.
7:54
Liam Naden: I was done with that.
7:55
Liam Naden: I thought forget the higher power, forget everything.
7:58
Liam Naden: I'm not going to go looking for anything.
8:00
Liam Naden: I'm not going to go looking for anything.
8:01
Liam Naden: I'm not going to go expecting anything.
8:03
Liam Naden: I'm not going to try and figure anything out.
8:04
Liam Naden: I'm done with life.
8:05
Liam Naden: I don't care anymore about what's going to happen?
8:08
Liam Naden: Okay.
8:09
Liam Naden: But I didn't realize and again, there was a big difference and we can talk about this if you like between surrender and letting go and what it really is on a biological level, because you've got to do it biologically for it to work.
8:22
Liam Naden: And that's the missing part that most people, unfortunately, have missed.
8:24
Liam Naden: But so I literally just gave up and said I don't know, I'm not going to try anymore, I'm not going to try to figure out what to do, I'm not going to go and look for opportunities or ways to get out of this mess, I just can't be bothered.
8:37
Liam Naden: So it was almost not really a state of depression, but it really was.
8:41
Liam Naden: I'm too exhausted, I just can't.
8:43
Liam Naden: I haven't got anything left to give.
8:47
Liam Naden: And then it was really weird after that, because things started to show up in my life.
8:51
Liam Naden: You know, a business came along, literally it showed up.
8:54
Liam Naden: A relationship came along, it showed up, an amazing relationship and a great business.
9:00
Liam Naden: And then another business showed up Before I knew it.
9:03
Liam Naden: All these things were starting to continue to happen to me.
9:07
Liam Naden: It wasn't long before I bought a brand new motorhome and traveled around New Zealand for 18 months while managing my businesses.
9:14
Liam Naden: Then my partner and I we moved to Europe on a one-way ticket in a suitcase, we bought a brand new yacht and then we sailed around Europe for eight years and all of these things just kept happening, one by one, and it was as if what is going on here, and it wasn't just these things were showing up and the fact that they were great things because I was having this freedom, I was making really good money again, I was in a great relationship, I had the freedom.
9:42
Liam Naden: I mean, you can imagine what it's like being in a little bay in the Greek islands.
9:46
Liam Naden: You're on your yacht, you wake up in the morning and the sun's shining, there's no one around and you just dive into the water off the back of the boat and you get out and you've got two businesses that are running for you doing really well, and you have this feeling.
10:03
Liam Naden: I remember this.
10:04
Liam Naden: It was actually another day, another defining day of my life, if you like.
10:08
Liam Naden: I remember thinking this is what I've been looking for, this is success.
10:13
Liam Naden: This is all of those years when I've been trying to struggle and achieve everything.
10:20
Liam Naden: This was the feeling I was after know, because there is a difference between having and feeling, and sometimes you just know and I just knew.
10:28
Liam Naden: This is it.
10:29
Liam Naden: This is me living my purpose, this is me being the best that I can be, because the great thing was I didn't have any of the problems and stress that I had.
10:37
Liam Naden: Things were working really well.
10:39
Liam Naden: But the problem was I got.
10:41
Liam Naden: I became confused because I thought how come I spent all of those years learning all of that stuff, going to all those seminars, working really hard, having my goals list, planning everything out, visualizing, pushing all the time to reach higher and higher, always gathering more information?
11:00
Liam Naden: Why is it that my life then, when I was doing that, I had so much stress and everything fell to bits, whereas now everything's working but I'm not setting any goals, I'm not going after opportunities, I'm not really trying that hard.
11:18
Liam Naden: I mean, I'm putting in effort but I'm not struggling with anything.
11:22
Liam Naden: I'm not trying to figure stuff out, but it's like all of these things keep showing up and all I'm really doing is responding to what's showing up and it's all good stuff.
11:30
Liam Naden: And we could talk for ages about how many weird miracles, if you like, just strange coincidences, meeting people or things happening in strange ways that you know.
11:43
Liam Naden: I think.
11:43
Liam Naden: How on earth did that happen?
11:44
Liam Naden: And I started to think that was coincidence, but I realized there had to be something more to it, and that's when I decided I was going to figure out what I was doing differently, because I was obviously doing something differently, yeah, and I didn't want to mess it up.
11:57
Liam Naden: I didn't want to.
11:58
Liam Naden: I had to know what I was doing so that I carried on doing it.
12:01
Liam Naden: I carried on getting the results, and that really led me into this whole area of really understanding how we actually get the results we do in our life, not just these ideas.
12:11
Liam Naden: Like you know, you go to a workshop and someone says, well, if you write down your goals and have all these plans and it'll all come, or you practice the law of attraction and you visualize what you want and you achieve it.
12:23
Liam Naden: I never found any of those things actually worked Not really, and many of the people that I work with most of them they all admit that they don't really work.
12:32
Liam Naden: So I wanted to know what was what did work, because this, whatever I was doing, was working.
12:37
Liam Naden: I had the proof and that's what I really figured out.
12:40
Liam Naden: And now I spend my time sharing with other people to help them get similar results really figured out, and now I spend my time sharing with other people to help them get similar results.
12:46
Erin Gray: So let's talk about, then, in terms of because the way that I think that you are describing what it used to be like is very survival based brain right Like, even though from the outside, looking in, I call it like a checklist life right, like we, we've done all of the things.
13:03
Erin Gray: Checklist life right, like we, we've done all of the things, but we, internally, we don't feel that, we don't feel peaceful and having fun and things of that sort, and we're stuck in that very survival based.
13:16
Erin Gray: That's like a mouthful.
13:17
Erin Gray: So survival based brain right Versus our creative brain.
13:22
Erin Gray: So do you want to talk about the difference between the two?
13:24
Erin Gray: And you know how do you actually know when you're in one or the other?
13:32
Liam Naden: Well, what it really comes down to is you know what you're talking about a survival state or creative state or whatever.
13:39
Liam Naden: It comes down to a realization that everyone, the reason everybody is struggling is we're going against the laws of nature.
13:47
Liam Naden: And you know, one thing we're never taught is that nature rules everything.
13:52
Liam Naden: We're taught.
13:53
Liam Naden: Well, if you visualize and if you work towards things and you plan and you learn things, you can win.
13:59
Liam Naden: But that's like saying, if you stand on top of a 10-story building and you visualize and pray and meditate and reprogram your subconscious mind that you can fly in the air.
14:10
Liam Naden: When you walk off, you'll fly in the air, but it doesn't happen.
14:14
Liam Naden: You fall straight to the ground.
14:15
Liam Naden: So the problem is we've been taught erroneously all these ideas that we're in control of our life when we're not.
14:22
Liam Naden: Nature is in control of our life.
14:24
Liam Naden: We are driven biologically and we're driven by of our life when we're not.
14:26
Liam Naden: Nature is in control of our life.
14:26
Liam Naden: We are driven biologically and we're driven by the laws of nature, gravity being one of them, and we can't go against those.
14:32
Liam Naden: I mean, try and stop your heart beating or try and stop breathing.
14:35
Liam Naden: It's just not going to happen, no matter how motivated or what technique you use.
14:39
Liam Naden: So we forget that.
14:41
Liam Naden: We forget that we need to find out the way nature works.
14:44
Liam Naden: But the good thing is, nature not only rules, but it has rules, and it has rules for success.
14:50
Liam Naden: It has rules that determine whether you live a life getting what you really want, without stress and problems, or whether you continue to struggle.
14:58
Liam Naden: And there are several laws of nature which any biological scientist will tell you is exactly true about how nature works Because, remember, many people have studied this.
15:09
Liam Naden: They've observed nature, how it's all set up and we're part of nature.
15:13
Liam Naden: So it's how we're set up.
15:14
Liam Naden: But if you were to ask any biological scientist well, what's the overriding law of nature?
15:21
Liam Naden: What governs everything?
15:22
Liam Naden: Well, what it actually is, it's what I call the law of thriving.
15:25
Liam Naden: In other words, every single living thing is biologically programmed, wired and designed to thrive, which means being the best that it can be, and the reason for that is because everything's, the primary purpose of all life is to survive.
15:40
Liam Naden: Everything is in a state of constant seeking to survive, and the best way you survive is by being the best that you can be.
15:49
Liam Naden: Science has a word for this, called homeostasis, and what we observe in nature is every living organism achieves and maintains a state called homeostasis, which is the optimum functioning of that organism.
16:02
Liam Naden: So the optimum functioning of the organism, homeostasis, is the natural state of all life, and it happens to be our natural state as well, because we're governed by exactly the same rules of nature.
16:15
Liam Naden: So we're actually designed biologically to thrive, to be the best that we can be and to function optimally, and that includes for us not just physically being as good as we can be, but also mentally and emotionally, in other words, being happy.
16:29
Liam Naden: In other words, not having problems and stress.
16:32
Liam Naden: Problems and stress go, and I teach this in several of my courses, that the logic behind this is that problems and stress are actually unnatural because they don't help you survive biologically.
16:45
Liam Naden: Now people say oh, you know, it's good to have problems and they make you grow and make you stronger.
16:50
Liam Naden: They don't.
16:51
Liam Naden: They only make you weaker.
16:56
Liam Naden: You can learn from problems, but you can learn a lot better from other things that aren't problems as well.
16:59
Liam Naden: So there's not actually any biological basis for problems.
17:02
Liam Naden: They don't help us reach this optimum state so that we thrive, which is our biological purpose.
17:10
Liam Naden: So the question is, why don't we thrive?
17:12
Liam Naden: Why do we have problems in our life and really it comes down to understanding how nature is designed to ensure that all life does thrive and doesn't have problems.
17:22
Liam Naden: And that comes down to a mechanism, or what I call a machine that every living thing has been given to ensure that it reaches homeostasis and thrives.
17:31
Liam Naden: And that's a brain.
17:32
Liam Naden: You know, a brain is a machine which every organism possesses with only one purpose to make sure that that organism or that creature survives and thrives and gives itself the greatest chance for survival.
17:46
Liam Naden: And that means not having problems and stress.
17:48
Liam Naden: So you have to say to yourself all right, so if that's true, if my brain because this is true for us if my brain is designed to ensure I don't have problems, it's designed to ensure I thrive, so that I have the greatest chance for survival, why do I have problems?
18:05
Liam Naden: Why am I not thriving?
18:06
Liam Naden: If you were to ask most people, you know, do you think you're living to your highest potential being?
18:13
Erin Gray: the best that you can be.
18:14
Erin Gray: They say well no.
18:16
Liam Naden: So why is that, when that's our natural state?
18:18
Liam Naden: Well, there's really only well.
18:20
Liam Naden: There's two possibilities.
18:21
Liam Naden: One is you have a faulty brain.
18:23
Liam Naden: It's somehow doing it wrong, but biologically that doesn't make sense, because nature would have eliminated our species if we had a anything faulty, because over millions of years nature's figured out the best way to eliminate all of the faults, if you like.
18:37
Liam Naden: So the only other possible explanation is we're not using this machine, our brain.
18:43
Liam Naden: We're not using it the right way, because if you imagine any machine, when you operate it it works perfectly.
18:49
Erin Gray: I want to pause you there, Liam, because I 100% agree with this and I think it comes from a like, almost.
18:55
Erin Gray: Do you think that we're not, obviously we're not using our brain the way it's meant to be used, and do you think it comes from a place of like?
19:02
Erin Gray: How is that be of a?
19:05
Erin Gray: Like?
19:05
Erin Gray: A disempowered place, Like, if, if we all wake up to how our brain is supposed to be used, how we're supposed to be, then there's a lot of things and businesses and industries and things of that sort that we that would not exist because we wouldn't need those things, because we would be working at our highest and highest and being at our highest, absolutely the world's most highly paid neuroscientists work for large corporations and governments and they understand this very well.
19:38
Liam Naden: They understand the message you need to give people to ensure that they use their brain in a disempowering way, so that they don't become the best they can be.
19:48
Liam Naden: Because when you're not the best you can be and you're stressed, what do you do you reach?
19:51
Liam Naden: And there's a biological reason why we probably don't have time to get into how this works biologically, but you're biologically wired to seek help yep and and to go out and consume more yep, because you're thinking I'm not not good enough, I don't have enough, I need more to survive.
20:07
Liam Naden: And of course, that's the consumer culture, isn't it?
20:10
Liam Naden: It's all based on using our brain the wrong way and there's not really much incentive, I guess you could say, for anybody to show anybody the right way to use this, apart from the incentive I have, which is really to see people living far more to their potential rather than being stuck with problems.
20:27
Erin Gray: I think it comes from a fear-based place for all these people, right, like that, are like the, what you're talking about, like if, if you have a fear that, oh, if everyone.
20:36
Erin Gray: But how much, how much more could we actually create in the world If all of us were living at our potential like infinite right?
20:42
Erin Gray: And this fear, this fear that I don't know, like, when I say they, it's like lots of powers that be right, that want to not expose this, because then it's like trying to have power from a very disempowered place versus all of us are powerful and empowered and being able to, you know, thrive and be at our fullest.
21:09
Liam Naden: So right, absolutely, and you know this.
21:11
Liam Naden: And what you're talking about.
21:13
Liam Naden: And what I'm talking about is this isn't some eerie, fiery idea.
21:16
Liam Naden: I'm not talking about the subconscious mind and all those sorts of sort of theoretical things.
21:22
Liam Naden: I'm talking about pure biology, about how nature is designed.
21:25
Liam Naden: And when I talk about the brain, you know you mentioned a couple of parts.
21:29
Liam Naden: There's actually four parts to the brain which I've created in a model, but they need to be used the right way.
21:35
Liam Naden: But they're not ideas, they're physical locations in the brain.
21:39
Liam Naden: This is the way it works mechanically, biologically.
21:42
Liam Naden: So because, remember, I tried all that stuff about the law of attraction and ideas and all sounded good.
21:48
Liam Naden: But I wanted proof, proof that, firstly, what I was doing, why it was working, and secondly, proof that the more I did it it actually worked and not some just idea.
21:58
Liam Naden: Well, if you try this, you know, if you meditate for 10 years, then you'll gradually feel better.
22:03
Liam Naden: I wanted the results right now.
22:05
Liam Naden: I didn't want to carry on with these sort of promises that it might work.
22:08
Liam Naden: But you mentioned a really important word that is completely misunderstood by nearly everybody, because we've been told completely the wrong idea about what it actually is, and that word is fear, because fear is biology, it's not just this idea.
22:23
Liam Naden: Fear has this impact on the way our brain works, because here's the way the brain works.
22:28
Liam Naden: You mentioned the creative brain, but if you think about the state of being the best that you can be, this thriving state, people listening or watching might like to think what would that actually look like?
22:40
Liam Naden: Well, what it actually looks like, you've probably had that experience on the odd occasion where you're feeling everything's going well, you're feeling creative, you're feeling inspired and motivated, you're really grateful, you're feeling loving and you're getting great ideas come into your head and things are really working well in your life.
22:59
Liam Naden: Or you might have one of those aha moments where you've been working away on a problem and you can't figure out what the answer is and then, all of a sudden, when you're doing something else, the answer comes to you from somewhere Goodness knows where and you think where did that idea come from?
23:17
Liam Naden: That's the answer.
23:18
Liam Naden: Why didn't I think of that before?
23:20
Liam Naden: So we've all had those experiences before.
23:23
Liam Naden: So we've all had those experiences In this particular way of living, if you like, this very creative state.
23:32
Liam Naden: It's been called being in the flow or being in the zone.
23:33
Liam Naden: Many people have described this as being like something else is taking over.
23:35
Liam Naden: It's not all their own effort, there's something else that's amplifying who they are and making life easier and more productive for them.
23:43
Liam Naden: And if you think about musicians or composers, people who write music and it's really interesting sometimes if you've ever watched an interview with a songwriter on YouTube or something, they're often asked where did you get the idea for that tune or that song?
24:00
Liam Naden: They all say, going way back from anybody.
24:03
Liam Naden: They all give the same answer, which is I don't know.
24:06
Liam Naden: I don't know where it came from, it just sort of came along in my head.
24:10
Liam Naden: I just and all I, you know Mozart used to talk about.
24:13
Liam Naden: He just heard the music and all he did was write it down.
24:16
Liam Naden: So where all of the state of creativity?
24:19
Liam Naden: This is actually our natural creative state.
24:22
Liam Naden: This is us being in homeostasis.
24:24
Liam Naden: This is where we don't have problems or, if we do, we're finding quick solutions to them.
24:28
Liam Naden: They're easily solved yeah.
24:30
Liam Naden: Yeah, we have this gut instinct, sometimes this little voice that says don't do that or do that, which helps us solve a problem or provides the answer to a problem or makes sure we don't run into a problem.
24:40
Liam Naden: So this state and you say it's been described a lot what this is, this is your natural creative state and it activates or is centered and you mentioned the pineal gland.
24:50
Liam Naden: That's one of the main places where this particular part of the brain, when it's active, where it's working from.
24:57
Liam Naden: As I say, this is our best state, this is our state of thriving.
25:00
Liam Naden: It's the state we're supposed to live in all of the time, pretty well, all of the time.
25:05
Liam Naden: There's only one time we're not supposed to live in that state and that is and this comes down to how the brain was designed millions of years ago in biology where we're supposed to live in this thriving state.
25:16
Liam Naden: However, we need to have a weapon or a defense mechanism if something comes along into our environment that might harm us, that might kill us.
25:23
Liam Naden: You know, a lion in the forest, millions of years ago perhaps, or whatever it is, because it was a dangerous world when the human body and brain, when our species, was developed.
25:34
Liam Naden: So what happens, then, is that your brain sends a signal and activates a different part of your brain.
25:40
Liam Naden: It shuts down all of your creativity, imagination, all of these things about you being your best, and it activates a weapon, which sometimes it's called the fight-flight mechanism.
25:52
Liam Naden: It's a bit more to it than that, but you feel afraid and you go into this reactive state because your brain has recognized a threat to your survival, and in that state, there are only four things you can do.
26:04
Liam Naden: There are only four possible responses you can have to a threat to your survival.
26:05
Liam Naden: And in that state, there are only four things you can do.
26:07
Liam Naden: There are only four possible responses you can have to a threat to your survival.
26:09
Liam Naden: So that's all this part of the brain can do.
26:11
Liam Naden: It can run away, it can stand and fight, it can stop and do nothing, or it can shout out and ask for help.
26:19
Liam Naden: That's all it's designed to do and that's all it's capable of doing.
26:29
Liam Naden: But the thing is, when you activate this part of your brain, you can't do anything else but those four things.
26:31
Liam Naden: You can't figure out what your goals should be, you can't figure out the solution to problems, you can't figure out what you should do, and this is why, when we're in this brain state, which most people are, most of the time, they're confused and they're saying what do I need to do to be happy?
26:42
Liam Naden: What should my goals be?
26:43
Liam Naden: What do I need to do now?
26:45
Liam Naden: I'm so confused I can't think straight.
26:49
Liam Naden: This is all because we've activated the wrong part of the brain, and what activates that part of the brain is your magic word, fear.
26:56
Liam Naden: Whenever you feel fear, it's a signal from your brain.
27:00
Liam Naden: And when I say fear also mean the, the related parts of fear, which is stress, worry, anxiety, frustration, anger.
27:09
Liam Naden: This is all your a signal from your brain saying, for some reason, it has identified a threat to your survival.
27:15
Liam Naden: Now, of course, there isn't one there, but that's the part of your brain you're activating and you can only do one of those four things, and we all know.
27:22
Liam Naden: When you're in that state, what are you doing?
27:24
Liam Naden: You're either running away from a problem we're talking about.
27:28
Liam Naden: If you don't have a threat to your survival, you run away from the problem.
27:31
Liam Naden: Well, you stand and argue with the person and fight and try and fight back and force something.
27:36
Liam Naden: Or you just say, well, I don't know what to do.
27:39
Liam Naden: I don't know what to do.
27:40
Liam Naden: Or you say can someone help me?
27:43
Liam Naden: I need a book, I need a coach, I need a therapist, I need some consultant, I need to learn some more.
27:49
Liam Naden: That's all it's capable of doing.
27:51
Liam Naden: And all of the stuff about you being the best that you can be, what your goals should be not that there's any such, but I should also say not that goal setting is natural either.
28:01
Liam Naden: That's completely unnatural.
28:02
Liam Naden: Give that up.
28:03
Liam Naden: We could talk about why, if, if, you like.
28:05
Liam Naden: But, um, all of that good stuff about your life purpose, the answer to problems, what's really going to what you should do and be, and really it's really going to make you your best.
28:14
Liam Naden: You don't have access to any of that because you're only supposed to have this, these four things, in this survival state, for very short periods of time.
28:22
Liam Naden: It's only supposed to be there until the lion's gone away Yep, not in a permanent state.
28:27
Liam Naden: Yep, and 98% of people.
28:30
Liam Naden: That's why we're not thriving.
28:31
Liam Naden: We're activating the wrong part of our brain, which doesn't have the resources we need to get us to thrive.
28:38
Erin Gray: Yeah, it keeps us.
28:39
Erin Gray: It keeps us.
28:39
Erin Gray: It's like a loop.
28:40
Erin Gray: It keeps us in that state.
28:42
Erin Gray: So let's talk about the four parts of the brain.
28:44
Erin Gray: Do you want to explain, kind of like, what they are?
28:46
Erin Gray: You've already explained one of them, but like the four parts of the brain and we already talked about why it gets turned off, but like how do we turn it back on?
28:55
Liam Naden: Well, we've talked about too.
28:57
Liam Naden: There's the creative brain, which is really the master part of your brain.
29:00
Liam Naden: This is the part of your brain that's in control and it's right in the center of your skull, because it's the most protected part of your brain.
29:07
Liam Naden: This is the most important part.
29:09
Liam Naden: In the Bible it calls it the Holy of Holies, the kingdom of heaven.
29:14
Liam Naden: These are all references to this part of your brain.
29:16
Liam Naden: So this is really the master key.
29:20
Liam Naden: It's right in the middle.
29:21
Liam Naden: That's the creative brain and, as I say, that contains all of these things, these resources that we use for being the best that we can be.
29:29
Liam Naden: There's also the survival brain that's located at the back of the head and around the brainstem area.
29:34
Liam Naden: That's the fight flight response and that's also the part that maintains everything about our survival.
29:41
Liam Naden: So, obviously, fighting off dangers is part of our survival, but it's also all the automatic functions like breathing and all of our bodily functions.
29:49
Liam Naden: This is all managed without us having to think about it.
29:51
Liam Naden: The other two parts of the brain are the thinking brain.
29:55
Liam Naden: I mean, obviously these aren't the scientific terms, but they all have scientific terms.
30:00
Erin Gray: I was going to say do you want to use the scientific terms?
30:02
Erin Gray: Because we have.
30:02
Erin Gray: I mean, in previous podcasts I have talked about that.
30:04
Erin Gray: So when you're talking about the survival base, are you talking about the amygdala?
30:09
Erin Gray: Is that what you're referring to, or what are you?
30:11
Liam Naden: referring to?
30:12
Liam Naden: I'm talking about the brainstem.
30:13
Erin Gray: Okay, the brainstem Okay no-transcript things.
30:45
Liam Naden: You can create language so that you can communicate with others, you can make sense of your world, but it's limited to what you already know, to what you've experienced.
30:54
Liam Naden: That's your thinking brain.
30:55
Liam Naden: And then the fourth part is what you said was the amygdala, the hippocampus, your thinking brain.
30:59
Liam Naden: And then the fourth part is what you said was the amygdala, the hippocampus, the hypothalamus.
31:06
Liam Naden: This is the emotional feeling brain.
31:08
Liam Naden: This is what's responsible for how you feel, and it's actually there that you either generate feelings of fear, which trigger the survival brain, or feelings of gratitude, love, everything's safe, everything's good.
31:19
Liam Naden: That's what activates the creative brain.
31:22
Liam Naden: So the only real question is to say all I need to do is to eliminate fear from my life.
31:29
Liam Naden: And people say, well, that's a ridiculous idea.
31:31
Liam Naden: How can you eliminate fear from your life?
31:33
Liam Naden: Because all these terrible things are going on in the world.
31:36
Liam Naden: I've got all of these problems.
31:38
Liam Naden: You know there's a lot to be afraid of.
31:40
Liam Naden: The funny thing was somebody much greater than me said you shouldn't be afraid and not to have fear in your life.
31:47
Liam Naden: I wonder who that was?
31:48
Liam Naden: I thought, whereas I was discovering all of this and I realized it says it in the Bible 365 times someone literally counted says be not afraid.
31:58
Liam Naden: And the second most commonly used phrase in the bible is have faith, believe.
32:03
Liam Naden: And all religions teach not to be afraid, but believe and have faith.
32:08
Liam Naden: And it's not because it's some esoteric idea.
32:11
Liam Naden: It's trying to tell you how your brain works.
32:13
Liam Naden: This is a biological instruction that when you feel fear, except when a lion's about to eat you, that's the only purpose of fear.
32:22
Liam Naden: If something is literally about to eat you, or maybe a car is coming in your path and you need to jump out of the way or someone wants to hit you, that's the only time that this fear mechanism is designed for.
32:33
Liam Naden: So that's why the Bible is saying look, I'm not saying it's a nice idea, I'm saying be not afraid, because when you are, when you activate that part of your brain, I'm sorry.
32:42
Liam Naden: All of the good stuff about you being your best you can be, it's just not going to happen.
32:46
Liam Naden: That part of the machine is not available to you.
32:50
Liam Naden: And again we see this all throughout the Bible where it says do not worry about tomorrow.
32:55
Liam Naden: Tomorrow will take care of itself.
32:56
Liam Naden: Do not worry about what you shall eat, drink and wear.
32:59
Liam Naden: It's all going to be provided for you.
33:01
Liam Naden: So when you really understand that.
33:03
Liam Naden: You realize there's only one mission in life and that's to eliminate fear.
33:07
Liam Naden: And, as I say, people say, well, how do you do that?
33:10
Liam Naden: It's impossible.
33:11
Liam Naden: There's actually a lot of ways you can do that.
33:13
Liam Naden: I've got a whole coaching program with a whole section on all the ways to eliminate your fear.
33:17
Liam Naden: But if, whole section on all the ways to eliminate your fear, but?
33:21
Liam Naden: But if people are thinking, well, how can I start?
33:22
Liam Naden: Yeah, think about this for an idea.
33:23
Liam Naden: What are all the things that you allow into your life that make you feel bad?
33:26
Liam Naden: In other words, watching the news?
33:29
Liam Naden: Yeah, you know haven't.
33:32
Erin Gray: My life has been amazing.
33:33
Liam Naden: Haven't watched in like five or six years exactly, but people who say, well, I need to stay informed, I need to know what's going on.
33:39
Liam Naden: Well, how do you know?
33:40
Liam Naden: It's even true anyway.
33:41
Liam Naden: But apart from that, if it makes you feel bad, you're finished because it's simply going to activate the wrong part of your brain.
33:48
Liam Naden: It's a little bit like me saying, coming along and saying to you drink this liquid.
33:54
Liam Naden: I've got a glass of liquid here, I'd really like you to drink it.
33:56
Liam Naden: And you say, well, what is it?
33:57
Liam Naden: And I say, well, it's hydrochloric acid.
33:59
Liam Naden: And you'd say, well, what?
34:01
Liam Naden: I'm not going to drink that.
34:02
Liam Naden: And I'd say, why don't you drink it?
34:03
Liam Naden: Nothing wrong with it.
34:04
Liam Naden: You say, well, you don't obviously understand how it works, how nature works.
34:17
Liam Naden: But if I drink that, I'm are saying it's fine and you'll be fine.
34:21
Liam Naden: And if you really believe and have faith and change your subconscious thoughts, then it won't affect you.
34:25
Liam Naden: You go look, I don't care what the justification is, I'm just not going to touch it.
34:30
Liam Naden: And then I try the threat.
34:32
Liam Naden: I say, if you don't drink this, I'm going to make sure you lose everything you have, all of your friends, your family, friends, your family, all your money, everything, if you don't drink this.
34:40
Liam Naden: And you're still going to say I'm sorry, it doesn't matter the justification, it doesn't matter what reason you give me as to why I should drink that.
34:48
Liam Naden: I know that the second I do it's over for me.
34:51
Liam Naden: That's what fear does as well.
34:54
Liam Naden: So you and when you understand this and you know it takes some understanding.
34:59
Liam Naden: So I'm trying to help people understand as we're talking.
35:02
Liam Naden: But when you understand this, you realize it doesn't matter what the justification, doesn't matter what's going on in the world, doesn't matter what's going on your life.
35:10
Liam Naden: If you activate that fear mechanism and there isn't a real fear threat there, you're not going to be able to do what you want to do in your life.
35:16
Liam Naden: You're always going to have problems because that part of your brain, the survival brain, that creates problems, and we all know this.
35:19
Liam Naden: When you're not going to be able to do what you want to do in your life, you're always going to have problems because that part of your brain, the survival brain, that creates problems, and we all know this.
35:24
Liam Naden: When you're feeling stressed, you do the wrong things, you make the wrong decisions and all these problems show up in your life.
35:30
Liam Naden: So we need to make fear the enemy and we can turn off the television.
35:33
Liam Naden: Or do they still have televisions these days?
35:36
Liam Naden: I suppose they do.
35:40
Liam Naden: You can end that conversation you're having with somebody that doesn't make you feel good.
35:42
Liam Naden: You can end that relationship with somebody that's not making you feel good.
35:46
Liam Naden: That doesn't mean just giving up on it, but you've got to analyze it and say is this in my best interest and is it in their best interest that job or that career or even that business you own?
35:57
Liam Naden: If it's not doing you and I had so much experience with this, with parts of businesses that I had that just weren't working, and I spent so much time trying to get into work and I kept believing and thinking I can fix this and I can make it work.
36:11
Liam Naden: You just need to let all that stuff go, because your brain will make sure better stuff comes along.
36:17
Liam Naden: That's what it's designed to do.
36:19
Liam Naden: If you've got an employee who's not working and I used to have teams of salespeople I'd spend all my time working with the ones who are no good, trying to help them get better, rather than saying, look, you're in the wrong job, thanks very much, see you later.
36:36
Liam Naden: So this is what we tend to do, but this is all about struggle.
36:40
Liam Naden: So you need to look at your life and some things, if you like, have a bigger cost to them than others.
36:47
Liam Naden: But you need to eliminate the triggers and this is what I help people do, and you can see so many more triggers.
36:52
Liam Naden: And there are also subconscious triggers, things that we've taught our brain about what's dangerous in the world that are simply untrue, and you need to identify those and eliminate those and, when you can, when you do, and it's really not that complicated, it's not that difficult.
37:08
Liam Naden: It just comes from understanding and, like anything else, just creating a new habit, knowing the right things to do and getting in the habit of doing them and stop doing the wrong things, and your life literally transforms when you do that and it just becomes.
37:21
Liam Naden: You get that feeling that I'm talking about where this is what life is supposed to be like.
37:26
Liam Naden: It's not supposed to be a struggle, it's supposed to be an exciting adventure and, as entrepreneurs, isn't that what we all signed up for in the first place?
37:33
Liam Naden: To have an exciting adventure.
37:35
Liam Naden: We didn't want all the problems and stress and we've tricked ourselves to think, oh, problems and stress are natural, problems are good for you and the worst one of all problems are a natural part of success and if you want to be successful, you have to learn to face adversity and struggle and deal with your problems.
37:54
Erin Gray: I would say it's lies that we've been sold.
37:57
Erin Gray: Right, it's lies that we've been sold.
37:58
Erin Gray: And I think that our body is our talk about biological right Like our body is our greatest messenger.
38:04
Erin Gray: And what Liam is saying is that listening to how we feel and so many of us have disconnected because this has been my story too of like disconnected I know our mind or our brain is part of our body and also like we have literally disconnected from that part of us to you know, to keep us.
38:27
Erin Gray: When I say safe, what I mean is like to keep us connected to caretakers or family or things of that sort when we're little and coming back home to ourselves and listening and getting that feedback of like it doesn't feel good in our bodies for a reason and and we have been taught, like you're saying, like the messages we've received is like it is supposed to be hard, it is supposed to be a struggle, like you're lazy If it's, you know you're not, you know if it's easier.
38:52
Erin Gray: And just all of this, these, these mixed messages or I should say more so of like, more of the messages of like you have to work hard, you have to struggle, you have to, and like keeping us in what you're saying is in that state, versus like tuning into your body and it's like it's constantly telling you and giving you the information of that feedback.
39:13
Erin Gray: And are we listening?
39:15
Erin Gray: Are we?
39:16
Erin Gray: You know, it's a reason why it doesn't feel very good in your body right, like cause it's not supposed to.
39:20
Erin Gray: It's a reason why it doesn't feel very good in your body right Because it's not supposed to be like that.
39:24
Liam Naden: Well, if it's a struggle, it's unnatural.
39:27
Liam Naden: If it doesn't feel good, you're doing something wrong.
39:30
Liam Naden: Because here's another one I mentioned.
39:32
Liam Naden: There are three laws.
39:33
Liam Naden: I don't know if I mentioned there are three laws of nature, the first one being the law of thriving when it comes to success.
39:38
Liam Naden: Another law is the law of least resistance.
39:40
Liam Naden: Everything in nature works on the principle of least resistance.
39:43
Liam Naden: And just think about riding a bicycle into the wind.
39:47
Liam Naden: It's going to be a lot harder, a lot more effort and you're not going to get as far.
39:52
Liam Naden: And if you just go with the wind, if you float down, the water flows down the stream.
39:56
Erin Gray: I was going to say the river, right Water will find how to get to wherever it needs to go.
40:00
Erin Gray: Right All the time.
40:02
Liam Naden: Yeah, the whole of nature is designed around the path of least resistance.
40:06
Liam Naden: And again, this makes total biological sense because you achieve the most, you have the greatest chance for survival when you put the least amount of stress on any biological system, like your own body.
40:18
Liam Naden: So it's completely unnatural to struggle and have stress, but we think it's a good thing, but it doesn't make any biological sense.
40:27
Liam Naden: And another thing, if I could mention, that doesn't make any biological sense, and this is people think this is a strange idea until you really think about it, and that is this whole idea of goal setting.
40:38
Liam Naden: We've been told we have to set goals, we have to work out.
40:43
Liam Naden: First of all, we have to figure out what we want.
40:45
Liam Naden: And then, when we know what we want, whatever approach we use, we use a particular technique to get to where we think we want to go.
40:53
Liam Naden: So we visualize or we meditate or we write it down or whatever, and then we depending on we might put a lot of effort into trying to get there or we might think that it'll just come to us, but we have this idea that we have to have goals.
41:06
Liam Naden: But here's the thing, the third law of nature, if you like, thriving in nature is what I call the law of efficiency of energy, and what that means is everything biological is designed to get the maximum result for the minimum amount of expenditure of energy conservation of energy.
41:25
Liam Naden: And when you think about it from us, you know, millions of years ago, think of it from a food perspective.
41:30
Liam Naden: We had to conserve every ounce of energy that we had in case we didn't find food.
41:35
Liam Naden: We might not have been able to find food for a week.
41:37
Liam Naden: We still had to have the energy to survive and go out and hunt for food a week later.
41:42
Liam Naden: So everything's designed about getting you the maximum result with the minimum amount of energy that you expend.
41:48
Liam Naden: So here's the thing about setting a goal, because people say to me I mean, the other thing I should say about goal setting is it doesn't work.
41:55
Liam Naden: If you ask people how much or how many of your goals that you have set, if you've achieved what percentage, it's not 100%, it's not 50%.
42:04
Liam Naden: What I normally come to when I talk to people about this when I ask people between 2% and 3%, people hardly ever achieve their goals.
42:13
Liam Naden: But we're all firstly setting goals and then thinking everybody else is achieving their goals and I'm working towards my goals and I'll get there, but I must be not trying hard enough, because everyone else is getting there, achieving their goals.
42:25
Liam Naden: They're not Forget what the gurus are telling you.
42:28
Liam Naden: This isn't the way it works and it doesn't work because it's not biological.
42:31
Liam Naden: And here's why.
42:33
Liam Naden: Just imagine you sat down and you figured out what you really wanted, what your ultimate goal was.
42:36
Liam Naden: You sat down and you figured out what you really wanted, what your ultimate goal was.
42:39
Liam Naden: But you can imagine when I was lying on my mother's sofa thinking what do I do now and why has this happened?
42:46
Liam Naden: If I had some technique or process to figure out what would really make me happy and would be me being the best that I could be Now, if I'd written it down, say, whatever brain process, if you like, and said Liam, your ultimate goal, what's really going to make you happy, is sailing around the world in your own yacht, managing two businesses, learning all about how the brain works and helping people from all around the world to really get a lot more out of their life and live a much more fulfilling life in a way that really no one else has explained before.
43:16
Liam Naden: That's your ultimate goal.
43:19
Liam Naden: And what would I have said?
43:20
Liam Naden: I would have thought.
43:20
Liam Naden: Whoever it was who told me that was absolutely crazy.
43:23
Liam Naden: Well, there are two reasons.
43:24
Liam Naden: First reason is I didn't believe I could achieve it.
43:27
Liam Naden: I'm lying on my mother's sofa with nothing and they're saying, yes, you're going to be sailing on a yacht, I'm going sailing A yacht what I think?
43:34
Liam Naden: I know what a yacht is, so I wouldn't have believed it.
43:38
Liam Naden: And the second reason is I didn't even know that's what I wanted.
43:41
Liam Naden: That was never on my goals list.
43:43
Liam Naden: And I've talked to millionaires, many people who've achieved a lot, and they've all said that what they achieved was never on their goals list.
43:50
Liam Naden: A goals list is limiting.
43:52
Liam Naden: And what would I have done if I'd looked at that?
43:55
Liam Naden: Just what I said?
43:56
Liam Naden: I would have doubted, I would have questioned, I would have said I don't know if that's me.
44:00
Liam Naden: I need to find out more about this.
44:02
Liam Naden: I don't understand it, I don't believe it, I doubt it, I resist.
44:08
Liam Naden: In other words, I'm wasting all that energy rather than just moving towards it.
44:13
Liam Naden: So then my brain would say, okay, well, I'm not going to show you the ultimate goal, but I'm going to show you the next 10 steps that you need to take to get to where you need to go.
44:21
Liam Naden: What would I have done then?
44:22
Liam Naden: Oh great, I've got a list of 10 steps.
44:24
Liam Naden: Okay, uh, but hang on.
44:26
Liam Naden: Just looking at this step number three, I'm not sure that would actually.
44:29
Liam Naden: Would that really lead to step number four?
44:31
Liam Naden: I need to check this out.
44:33
Liam Naden: I need to just go and do some analysis and research to see if that's the right thing to do.
44:37
Liam Naden: I don't think that would work.
44:38
Liam Naden: What am I doing?
44:39
Liam Naden: Again?
44:40
Liam Naden: Doubting, questioning, analyzing, trying to wasting all that energy.
44:45
Liam Naden: So the way your brain works biologically is it shows you exactly the next thing you need to do and no more.
44:51
Liam Naden: What's the very next step you need to take Without thinking about it, without analyzing it and figuring out and worrying about whether it's going to be the right thing, because when you're using your creative brain, it's always the right thing.
45:03
Liam Naden: It's not necessarily the expected thing and it might not give you the expected result, and sometimes your reaction might be well, actually, this isn't very pleasant from one perspective, but it's always going to be the right thing.
45:15
Liam Naden: That's the way we're designed biologically and that's why goal setting doesn't work, and the key thing about that is you don't know what you want, because what you think you want is all of the stuff can only come from your thinking brain, and maybe your thinking brain.
45:30
Liam Naden: All it knows is what you've already experienced in your life.
45:33
Liam Naden: The only information there is what you already know.
45:38
Liam Naden: It doesn't know.
45:39
Liam Naden: It doesn't have access to all of the knowledge there is, including the knowledge about really what would make you the best that you can be.
45:46
Liam Naden: So you can't use that part of your brain.
45:49
Liam Naden: And what is everyone doing?
45:50
Liam Naden: Overthinking, trying to figure it all out, trying to analyze it and everything.
45:55
Liam Naden: It's just.
45:56
Liam Naden: That's just not the way it works and it's completely inefficient, biologically as well.
46:01
Erin Gray: You're gonna say something yeah, I think it's you.
46:04
Erin Gray: You and I might be using different language, but I think we're saying the exact same thing, like I've always said, like we're trying to mind fuck it right, versus just like when I say be in the body.
46:14
Erin Gray: Like you, your mind had this idea of what you wanted.
46:19
Erin Gray: And I'm curious curious if, because the goals that I have really wanted, I have achieved them, but it has come from what I call like a heart-based desire, not a mind base, and I think so many of us have been taught, like I mean, they say that you know, 95, 96, 8% of our thoughts aren't even our thoughts, like how much of of what we're actually being being programmed or told to believe that this is what is really what we want, is actually what we want.
46:45
Erin Gray: And so when you said about like we, we want to try to figure it out, I think from a place of fear.
46:55
Erin Gray: Yeah, I was going to say to try to try to try to create safety, versus you only get the next step Right and once you do the next step, then the next step reveals itself.
47:04
Erin Gray: But we want to know step 100 before we even leave the dock.
47:08
Erin Gray: It's like that's not how it works, right, like you just do step one and then step two is revealed to you.
47:13
Erin Gray: And I already said, we've been programmed like, we've been so programmed to, and I think also too, because the more I kind of ponder on this, I'm just like man have we been so conditioned to believe that we have to have goals?
47:26
Erin Gray: Because here we go back to whoever the powers that be that and when I say I say that like, facetiously, right, like the powers that be of like, okay, if we because I believe the human spirit wants to create, like you already saying, like nature, right, like we create, we will evolve, we will grow, we will expand.
47:48
Erin Gray: And this idea like, if you don't have goals, you're going to be lazy, and if you don't have, it's just like this, this false belief that we've been, that we have bought into, of like we have to have goals and it's, it's almost like this control, almost, in a way it feels like of like, if I don't have, if I don't have goals, then I won't.
48:08
Erin Gray: It goes back to fear, right, like it's.
48:10
Erin Gray: It's this idea of if I don't have goals, then I might not achieve, versus like following and listening to your body and what your body is saying, versus mind-based thinking.
48:26
Erin Gray: You know.
48:27
Liam Naden: Yeah, well, exactly, I mean, it first comes down to you know.
48:30
Liam Naden: What is fascinating.
48:32
Liam Naden: What I've discovered about the biology is this is a biological explanation.
48:36
Liam Naden: So this isn't just some theoretical idea that you know.
48:39
Liam Naden: There's a lot of people who've written books or have these talk about.
48:42
Liam Naden: You know your subconscious mind and your conscious mind and to a degree, you have to believe all of those things.
48:47
Liam Naden: You know, I used to go to these seminars and read these books and people would say all these things, but there was always an element of yes, well, that makes sense, I'll believe what they're saying.
48:57
Liam Naden: I'm not trying to get anyone to believe what I'm saying.
48:59
Liam Naden: I'm trying to get them to see, from a logical perspective, an approvable perspective, that this is all biologically true.
49:05
Liam Naden: It's not just some theory that sounds good.
49:08
Liam Naden: So the point is exactly what you're saying that it's all about when you're in a fear state, even if it's, and you don't need to be shaking with fear.
49:16
Liam Naden: When you're in a fear state and you don't need to be shaking with fear when you're in an anxious state, which is caused by an underlying fear, you're not going to be able to achieve very much.
49:28
Liam Naden: You simply can't do it.
49:29
Liam Naden: You can't achieve your full potential.
49:33
Liam Naden: You don't have those resources there and that's why it says in the film the Matrix I don't know if you've seen that he's trying to get him to understand who he really is the master and the student and he says you have to let it all go Fear, doubt and disbelief.
49:47
Liam Naden: You have to free your mind and again it talks about this in the Bible as well and freeing your mind is freeing it from the stuck, fear-based state that is activating your survival brain that has got this weapon.
50:01
Liam Naden: That's only there for the odd maybe once or twice in your life.
50:04
Liam Naden: That it's on the whole time.
50:05
Liam Naden: It's just never going to happen.
50:07
Liam Naden: But you mentioned something interesting about sometimes you know something.
50:11
Liam Naden: So very occasionally your creative brain might show you a goal.
50:15
Liam Naden: And if people think about this, maybe a good example is you meet somebody unexpectedly.
50:22
Liam Naden: It wasn't on your goals list to meet somebody you end up marrying or having a relationship with and you just look at them you've never seen them before and you start talking to them and something comes over you and you say I think I'm going to marry this person, I think I want a relationship with this person, to marry this person, I think I want a relationship with this person and that's a knowingness and you just know this is right.
50:48
Liam Naden: So that is an example of sometimes your creative brain might choose to show you because it wants you to know yes, it is right for you to be with this person and it's a completely different thing to wanting something or needing something.
50:56
Liam Naden: I remember another example.
50:58
Liam Naden: I remember walking into a house once.
50:59
Liam Naden: I was looking to buy a house and I walked into this house incredible cliff top home, another mansion, amazing place and I just walked in and said this is the house I'm going to buy it.
51:13
Liam Naden: It was triple my budget, it was ridiculously far more.
51:17
Liam Naden: But there was something that told me it's just going to happen.
51:20
Liam Naden: And of course I was a little bit anxious because I didn't want it to happen, because it's like I thought it was too dangerous.
51:27
Liam Naden: But somehow I got the money together and I bought the house and I lived there and I still to this day don't know where all the money came from.
51:34
Liam Naden: But sometimes you get that.
51:35
Liam Naden: But you have to distinguish between that and that doesn't come from a place of fear or need.
51:40
Liam Naden: It's just this knowingness.
51:42
Liam Naden: But that's very rare and you can't force those things to happen and you can't look at your goal and say, oh, maybe this is the right one.
51:50
Liam Naden: You'll either know it or you won't.
51:51
Liam Naden: But if it comes from any lack or need or stress or wanting to get out of your current situation, it's not the right goal.
51:59
Liam Naden: It's just part of your brain trying to give you an answer when it doesn't know the answer.
52:04
Liam Naden: All it can do is if you continually ask this part of your brain, which can only do those four things, come on, tell me the answer to what I should have in my life, how I can be happy and what do I need to do.
52:16
Liam Naden: Eventually it's just going to.
52:17
Liam Naden: Instead of telling you, well, I don't know the answer, it's eventually going to say, all right, I give up, I'll give you any answer to get you off my back.
52:25
Liam Naden: So, yeah, become a millionaire, that's what you need.
52:27
Liam Naden: Or, you know, set up your own business and have branches all over the world, or have a holiday house in 10 different cities or whatever.
52:35
Liam Naden: You know it's going to come up with crazy stuff so that even if you get those things which is very unlikely you will they're not going to make you happy because they're not actually what you want.
52:44
Erin Gray: Yeah, and what Liam's referring to when we talk about like fear I'm glad you said this it's not just fear, right.
52:51
Erin Gray: It's like worry, stress, anxiety, whatever all those lower vibration emotions.
52:55
Erin Gray: And in today's world that doesn't look like a lion anymore, right.
53:00
Erin Gray: That looks like sitting in the car and like stressing about if you're going to be on time, or like scrolling Instagram and like all of those.
53:06
Erin Gray: It's just like paying attention to your body of like.
53:09
Erin Gray: What does that feel like?
53:10
Erin Gray: It's like this, this constant in my body.
53:14
Erin Gray: It felt like just this low state of just.
53:17
Erin Gray: It didn't necessarily like definitely.
53:22
Erin Gray: Sometimes some certain things would feel like fear and sometimes it was just this lower state of just man, I don't even know how to describe it and it's just this, this um, and I think so many of us are so used to feeling that that we don't even know what you are describing, liam.
53:43
Erin Gray: You know what I mean.
53:44
Liam Naden: Exactly, it's the normal state of life, isn't it?
53:47
Liam Naden: Yeah, for most people.
53:48
Liam Naden: Yeah, it was my normal state for years, you know.
53:51
Liam Naden: Yeah, I thought this was natural and normal.
53:53
Liam Naden: Yeah, just because something's typical doesn't mean it's normal.
53:56
Liam Naden: Yes, yeah, totally.
53:58
Liam Naden: But I think the other thing to realize too, because, as you say, people, they're not necessary.
54:03
Liam Naden: You know, people say to me but I don't feel afraid.
54:05
Liam Naden: You have fears that you're not aware of.
54:07
Liam Naden: You have subconscious fears.
54:08
Liam Naden: The manifestation of those fears is the stress, worry, anxiety, anger, bitterness, frustration.
54:15
Liam Naden: They are all symptoms that there's a subconscious fear.
54:19
Liam Naden: That's, that's the fear that's creating all of those things.
54:22
Liam Naden: Because why are you anxious?
54:23
Liam Naden: Why are you frustrated?
54:25
Liam Naden: It's because you're worried about something.
54:27
Liam Naden: A lot of the time you're not even aware of it.
54:29
Liam Naden: Again, I have a process called brain rebalancing in one of my coaching programs to help people find out what they're afraid of, find out what their subconscious fears are, so they can get rid of them.
54:39
Liam Naden: And but?
54:40
Liam Naden: But that fear drives everything.
54:42
Liam Naden: You know, it is the, it's the underlying driver of all pain and problems in life.
54:47
Erin Gray: Yeah, I think, like what you said, just because it's typical doesn't mean it's normal.
54:53
Erin Gray: What'd you say?
54:55
Liam Naden: Normal.
54:56
Erin Gray: Normal or supposed to be that way.
54:57
Erin Gray: Right, like I've always said, like it's not like you're going to your friends or your child's soccer game, and when people are like how are you today, you're like, you know, like things are going so well and I had so much fun and you know, it's like I have so much free time and it's like we as a society, at least in the western world, have like connected through struggle and stress and and it has kept us on this continual thing versus just because, just because everyone else's life looks like that doesn't mean that that's the way, that the way I either want to live or I want to feel, you know, um human history.
55:37
Liam Naden: Human history is full of things that everyone would believe was true.
55:40
Liam Naden: That turned out not to be true.
55:43
Erin Gray: Yep.
55:43
Liam Naden: You know, everyone believed the earth was flat.
55:45
Liam Naden: Yep, Everyone believed that the earth, that the sun and all the planets revolved around the earth.
55:51
Liam Naden: Everyone said that's the greatest scientists throughout history.
55:56
Liam Naden: All said that was a fact.
55:58
Liam Naden: Yeah, there was a medical practice called bloodletting where if someone was sick, you drained their blood.
56:03
Liam Naden: Every great medical teacher for thousands of years said that was the way you cured people.
56:08
Liam Naden: And we look back on that now and we say, well, that's just not true.
56:11
Liam Naden: We know it's not true.
56:12
Liam Naden: And that's the point I'm really making with all this information about the brain and how it works, just because everybody thinks something else doesn't mean it's true.
56:17
Liam Naden: I'm really making with all this information about the brain and how it works, just because everybody thinks something else doesn't mean it's true.
56:21
Erin Gray: Yeah, and so okay.
56:24
Erin Gray: So let's talk just a little bit about that, because I think there's a lot of people that it's here we go back to fear, right, we're afraid to break from the pack or the herd, and I think that is a biological thing.
56:38
Erin Gray: Do you agree with that?
56:38
Erin Gray: Do you think that that comes from like okay, back in the day, when we all were a tribe and we all had to stick together, then if we did speak up, we did say hey, I'm not doing that.
56:47
Erin Gray: Then we were ousted Like do you believe that that's kind of where that comes from and our fear of like okay, and that doesn't look like I don't want to be with the tribe anymore.
56:56
Erin Gray: It looks like I don't want to do that or I don't agree with you.
56:59
Erin Gray: It's very less than it used to be right, but it's still in our bodies.
57:04
Erin Gray: Biologically, it still is the same feeling.
57:08
Liam Naden: Well, it's only in our bodies, biologically, when we're in a fear state.
57:11
Liam Naden: Because this is another defense mechanism for fear.
57:15
Liam Naden: Because you can imagine, you know, the tribe of natives from the village over the hill.
57:20
Liam Naden: They're walking over the hill and they want to kill everybody.
57:22
Liam Naden: What's the reaction?
57:23
Liam Naden: Everyone becomes afraid.
57:25
Liam Naden: And what do you have to do when you're faced with a threat?
57:28
Liam Naden: You all have to get together.
57:29
Liam Naden: You all have to protect each other.
57:31
Liam Naden: So that's why we have the sense we need to hang on to this community, even if it's dragging us down and even if we could actually what normally happens create a far better community.
57:43
Liam Naden: We have this opportunity to create our own community of like-minded people who are going to pull us up and help us be the best that we can be as we help them.
57:51
Liam Naden: But there's another reason why, biologically, in that state, we have this need.
57:57
Liam Naden: If you like to be together with other people in an unhealthy way, and that is if the tribe is coming over the hill, what's the most effective way for your tribe to survive?
58:11
Erin Gray: Or the lions are running at you or whatever.
58:14
Liam Naden: What you do is everybody becomes in a state where you need a leader.
58:17
Liam Naden: So what your brain does is it says remember, calling out for help was one of those four things.
58:18
Liam Naden: What you do is everybody becomes in a state where you need a leader.
58:19
Liam Naden: Some you need to, so you.
58:19
Liam Naden: What your brain does is it says remember, calling out for help was one of those four things.
58:23
Liam Naden: Your brain automatically switches and says who can tell me what to do to survive?
58:28
Liam Naden: So we become totally open to because you know you have a leader who tells you right or run or do whatever it is at this moment, so we can fight it off.
58:39
Liam Naden: So the point is we have this propensity or this.
58:45
Liam Naden: It's totally natural.
58:46
Liam Naden: When we're in a fear or anxious state, someone can literally program our mind and tell us what to do.
58:52
Liam Naden: Because that's what our brain is looking to do.
58:54
Liam Naden: It's looking for instruction.
58:55
Liam Naden: It's saying I don't know the answer.
58:57
Liam Naden: I need to seek to get some help.
58:58
Liam Naden: Who can help me?
58:59
Liam Naden: Now, all the great as I say, what do you call it?
59:06
Liam Naden: Advertising and marketing industries know this.
59:08
Liam Naden: If you get people in a state of fear and tell them to buy your product, they will.
59:12
Liam Naden: It's all to do with how the brain works.
59:15
Liam Naden: This is how the military works.
59:16
Liam Naden: How do you think the military manages to get people to do things that would be completely illogical, normally like shoot other people?
59:22
Liam Naden: They create a state of fear and then give them an instruction.
59:25
Liam Naden: That's how it works.
59:26
Liam Naden: So we don't realise this.
59:29
Liam Naden: We think we're directing our own life, but we're not.
59:32
Liam Naden: We're being directed by everybody else, including the pressures of our own society and community.
59:36
Liam Naden: When we're in a state of fear, when you're not in the state of fear, when your creative brain is working, your awareness goes way up.
59:43
Liam Naden: You start to see the totality of who you are, what your life is, the way things are and you, rather than this programmed thing, if you like I guess it's a word that people like to use we're all programmed, but it is true, unfortunately yeah, yeah totally.
1:00:00
Liam Naden: I mean, this is the biological explanation of it.
1:00:02
Liam Naden: It's not anything to do with subliminal or whatever it's, it's pure biology, the biology of survival either surviving or thriving yeah, totally so is there anything else that I haven't asked or that you want to share that maybe I yeah left out?
1:00:17
Erin Gray: I mean, we've talked about we didn't talk too much about the pineal gland and like how do you because I believe that's like the connection to the infinite do you want to share a little bit about that, or is there anything else that you want to share?
1:00:28
Liam Naden: well, that's, that's really what I call the creative brain.
1:00:31
Liam Naden: Science is more and more understanding what, um, what religion has has explained for thousands of years that the pineal gland and there are other parts of the brain as well that scientists are looking at in that general area, which seem to have this influence and this cause, if you like, on creativity, imagination, because, remember, we're talking about here that something here that's nothing to do with your thoughts, because where do you get those aha ideas?
1:00:55
Liam Naden: Where do you get the right?
1:00:56
Liam Naden: Where do you get new information?
1:00:57
Liam Naden: How do you see things that you've never seen before?
1:01:00
Liam Naden: This is something different.
1:01:01
Liam Naden: So the pineal gland is certainly part of it, but the important thing I mean it's really quite simple it's just to realize that you need to identify the triggers in your life that are triggering fear, stress, worry and anxiety, which are simply your brain's way of trying to tell you that it thinks, most of the time wrongly, that there's a threat to your survival and that's going to keep you stuck.
1:01:22
Liam Naden: Eliminate the triggers and then you naturally just activate your creative brain and your life naturally flows in the right direction and all you need to do is just go along for the ride, do?
1:01:33
Erin Gray: what you need to do.
1:01:34
Erin Gray: I think that's a big one too right Trusting Like I don't think we, you don't need to.
1:01:38
Liam Naden: Can I just Another challenging question?
1:01:40
Liam Naden: Yeah, what is trust?
1:01:42
Liam Naden: Trust only comes from understanding and knowing that that's the way it works.
1:01:46
Liam Naden: You know people say well, I trust something's going to happen.
1:01:52
Liam Naden: They don't trust, they're afraid, and they hope that something will happen.
1:01:54
Liam Naden: But if you think about it, do you trust that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, or do you trust your heart's going to keep beating?
1:02:00
Liam Naden: Do you trust that when you're driving down the road, all of the cars coming the other way they're going to stay away.
1:02:06
Erin Gray: You don't trust.
1:02:07
Liam Naden: What you do is you just know that's the way it works, and the more you know about how your brain works and I have things like a course I've created a free one, on my website actually which gives you an experience of this Once you see it in action, you go.
1:02:21
Liam Naden: Well, I don't need to trust it.
1:02:22
Liam Naden: Do you trust your car is going to drive when you turn the key on?
1:02:26
Liam Naden: I think that's different, though.
1:02:27
Erin Gray: Yeah, I do think that there's a difference, right, because I think you have built up evidence, right.
1:02:36
Erin Gray: So let's use the car.
1:02:37
Erin Gray: For example, if your car didn't start for a couple of times and you would have that evidence, it's like, Ooh, I don't know if I trust that it's going to, because I've had evidence, right.
1:02:46
Erin Gray: And so where is that, like the evidence that we have that the sun has always?
1:02:51
Erin Gray: When you wake up, the sun is always there.
1:02:53
Erin Gray: We have that evidence.
1:02:54
Erin Gray: Versus do you do you have that knowing that your car is going to start?
1:02:59
Erin Gray: Yes, because I have so much evidence.
1:03:02
Erin Gray: But if my car were to stop starting for a couple of times, would I have that knowing?
1:03:07
Liam Naden: I don't know if I would tell me your thoughts on that well, I guess the point point that I'm really making is and this is again it says in that film, the matrix I can show you the door, but you're the one who has to step through it.
1:03:18
Liam Naden: The only way you step through it is through understanding, because you know we talk about letting go and having faith and all those things.
1:03:25
Liam Naden: This really is.
1:03:26
Liam Naden: It's what I experienced.
1:03:27
Liam Naden: It's not just hoping deep down that something will work and that you are sort of letting go.
1:03:32
Liam Naden: It's absolutely with no hesitation.
1:03:36
Liam Naden: And the only way you can get to that place is through understanding.
1:03:41
Liam Naden: Like the hydrochloric acid, you can't get there by hoping, because whenever you hope and think something will work and even fool yourself that you are letting go when you're not.
1:03:51
Liam Naden: There's a massive difference between really letting go and thinking that you are, but it's only when you do that and that's what I'm trying to do is explain how it works so you can see.
1:04:01
Liam Naden: Well, this makes sense.
1:04:02
Liam Naden: Why should I get into my car and doubt that it's going to to go, even if it, even if it doesn't start a few times?
1:04:07
Liam Naden: So I know well there's something wrong.
1:04:08
Liam Naden: I need to get it fixed.
1:04:08
Liam Naden: It's not like I think there's some faulty mechanism that the car's designed to do something different.
1:04:13
Liam Naden: You just know there's a thought there that needs correcting.
1:04:16
Liam Naden: But when you do this, the great thing is you, you, you have and all it takes is one an experience of something where you know, wow, how did that happen?
1:04:26
Liam Naden: That must be what we've been talking about.
1:04:29
Liam Naden: My creative brain at work yes, I can see that I did.
1:04:32
Liam Naden: I really did let go in that moment or that particular about that thing, and something unexpected showed up.
1:04:37
Liam Naden: That that's the proof.
1:04:39
Liam Naden: That's the evidence, because, again, as I said, I didn't want to go and learn from just some other guru who told me all of these great things without any proof.
1:04:47
Liam Naden: I was over that.
1:04:48
Liam Naden: I want the proof.
1:04:48
Liam Naden: What's worked for me and what is working, that's all I'm interested in.
1:04:54
Liam Naden: And so I think, when you go down that track and you say, yeah, I do want some proof, interested in.
1:04:58
Liam Naden: And so I think, when you, when you go down that track and you say, yeah, I do want some proof, I do want some evidence, sounds good, sounds logical and it sounds logical enough that'll actually do it, rather than just, well, maybe I'll try it and not sure about it.
1:05:07
Liam Naden: When you convince it'll work, then you try it.
1:05:09
Liam Naden: Then you see the proof and then you're off, and then it just gets.
1:05:13
Liam Naden: Then, like what's happened to me?
1:05:15
Liam Naden: These things just keep showing up.
1:05:17
Liam Naden: I mean things just keep happening or have done that are so strange and bizarre that I would really have just given up trying to make any plans, trying to expect anything to happen, and then you can just let go and enjoy the moment, and that's what life's supposed to be about.
1:05:32
Erin Gray: That's what we're trying to go for anyways.
1:05:34
Erin Gray: Right, like all of the goals and all of the things are ultimately to enjoy.
1:05:38
Erin Gray: I believe is like all of the goals and all the things are are ultimately to enjoy.
1:05:41
Erin Gray: I believe is like to enjoy the moment.
1:05:42
Erin Gray: Right, it's like we, it's like I always say like, why are we going around the back door to come in the front?
1:05:44
Erin Gray: We can just come in the front and like, be in the moment and have fun, but somewhere along the way yeah, somewhere along the way we've all been told that's not okay we're taught, we're limited, we you can't.
1:05:57
Liam Naden: You have to make things happen, you know, if you don't, then someone else is going to harm you.
1:06:01
Liam Naden: Yeah, no, you have to be in control all of these things.
1:06:04
Liam Naden: If you want to be in control, let your creative brain be in control, not this other thing, because and you mentioned right at the beginning, actually maybe we've got a few minutes to to say, or a moment, what is success, what's the definition of?
1:06:15
Liam Naden: Well, people have all these ideas about what success is.
1:06:19
Liam Naden: All I can give you is the only definition I've ever found in all of science and all of religion.
1:06:25
Liam Naden: And the definition of success is being the best that you can be, being in a state of homeostasis, your optimum functioning.
1:06:32
Liam Naden: That's what success is.
1:06:34
Liam Naden: That means as good as you can be physically.
1:06:36
Liam Naden: It means happy emotionally, mentally, feeling happy without problems and stress.
1:06:42
Liam Naden: That's the only definition.
1:06:44
Liam Naden: So if that's the only definition of success, what's all this other stuff?
1:06:47
Liam Naden: What about it's having your own businesses, having a great relationship, it's having all the money you need.
1:06:52
Liam Naden: It's having freedom.
1:06:53
Liam Naden: It's all of those things aren't success.
1:06:55
Liam Naden: They are all things that you think will make you happy.
1:06:59
Liam Naden: You don't want the money and the car and the house and the relationship for what it is.
1:07:03
Liam Naden: You want to find out what's going to make you feel.
1:07:04
Liam Naden: You just think that's going to make you happy.
1:07:08
Liam Naden: So being happy is always the goal.
1:07:10
Liam Naden: Not having problems is always the purpose, because that's the purpose of biological life is to be happy, be the best that it can be.
1:07:18
Liam Naden: You don't want to be happy and problem free because it's unnatural.
1:07:22
Liam Naden: You want to be that because that's your natural state, that's the way you're designed to be, and everything else is you fighting against that and that all, as we know, law of resistance.
1:07:31
Liam Naden: Fighting against it causes problems.
1:07:35
Liam Naden: It's not natural.
1:07:36
Erin Gray: Yeah, I love that, because I just was having this same conversation with someone else on the podcast and it's like we we've been sold, and you and I've said this multiple times on the podcast already it's like we've been sold.
1:07:48
Erin Gray: All of these lies, that, all of the things, right, consumer, consumption, all of this to get you to the place, it's like.
1:07:55
Erin Gray: But you could just bypass all of that and then everything else might be a byproduct, right, but what we're really after is, like you said, is is joy, is fulfillment, is happiness, is homeostasis.
1:08:09
Erin Gray: So, thank you, liam.
1:08:11
Erin Gray: Do you have anything else you want to say?
1:08:12
Erin Gray: Or where can people find you, learn more about you?
1:08:14
Erin Gray: Things of that sort.
1:08:16
Liam Naden: Well, they can find me on my website, liam nadnadincom, and I've got a lot of information there, and actually I'd love it to share what I've just created, which is a new mini course about how to unlock your rapid solution brain.
1:08:28
Liam Naden: So if anyone's listening or watching and maybe you're on your phone or your computer, just open your email right now and send an email to course C-O-U-R-S-E at liamnadincom and you'll get instant access to this short audio mini course that's going to show you how you can create an aha moment on demand.
1:08:52
Liam Naden: Remember we mentioned that about we get these things randomly.
1:08:54
Liam Naden: There's a biological, scientific way that you can get the right answer to any problem literally on demand, but it's about using your brain differently, and so I explain it all in this mini course.
1:09:05
Liam Naden: So really encourage people to check this out.
1:09:09
Liam Naden: Just send an email to course at liamnadincom or you can just go to my website, liamnadincom, and you'll find it there as well.
1:09:16
Erin Gray: I'll put the link in the actual.
1:09:18
Erin Gray: I'll go do this and I'll also put the link in the show notes.
1:09:21
Erin Gray: That way you guys have it.
1:09:22
Erin Gray: So if you're listening or you're watching, just go into the show notes and you can just click on the link and then it'll be there for you.
1:09:27
Erin Gray: So thank you, Leo, it was so fun.
1:09:30
Erin Gray: Thank you for your time and your knowledge I had, I had a blast.
1:09:33
Liam Naden: Me too Thanks.