Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 339. Communication Loss and Controller Troubleshooting with Andrew Freeburg and Erik Holland

Transcript

Episode 339. Communication Loss and Controller Troubleshooting with Andrew Freeburg and Erik Holland · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Trevor: Welcome to the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. So happy you're here. Thank you so much for listening and taking the time to join us and, and hopefully take a little bit away technical, personal because what we do here at Refrigeration Mentor is to really help you uplift your career, help you get to that next level.
• 0:01
  You can mentor older people even if you're younger and you can mentor younger people even if you're older. So we're gonna get into that a little bit. Andrew, how's your coffee this morning, brother? Oh, it's nice and hot, just
• 0:02
  Like what should I share? How do I help others? That's the big thing. ? It's like, how do I help others? And really that really started to set. The podcast apart for me because it's getting outta my comfort zone, you know? And I'd love to hear your thoughts when you're gonna, take on a new challenge, right?
• 0:03
  Andrew: Man, I love that question, Trevor. So for me my biggest thing was actually just understanding what that really means being uncomfortable and. Your growth or your development of whatever, who you are. It took me, I mean, I didn't wake up knowing, you know, everything, but being outside your comfort zone is really going to show you how much you have grown, how much you're willing to absorb, how much.
• 0:04
  For me anyway, I'm just in my head like, why am I doing this? Should I be doing this? How, how much should I be doing this? And then it's just overcoming myself a lot of the times. Right, because now like one of my sayings is, is me against me. What's up Eric? How you doing brother? I'm doing good. Thank you.
• 0:05
  I, I think you, you, you can't be an expert in everything. But you could be really good at a lot of things, but not an expert in everything. Then you're an expert in, in number fields. But what I do is I always spa with my colleagues. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. So we always, we, we, yeah. As you know, I've working for, for advanta in the, in, in the aftermarket service.
• 0:06
  It's somebody seen this valve fail in this way before or, or something like that, and people come up with solutions and say, oh yeah, I saw that this rack here last year or something, and I did this to solve the problem. And that, that you learn Yeah. Of each other. Yeah.
• 0:07
  I mean, a lot of things in there as far as learning opportunities for, for the, for the other technicians in my group. So I'm constantly, I guess, pushing too. Yeah. Just because I know it's gonna help. That's, that's what it really comes down to. I know it's gonna help people, so that's why, that's why I do it.
• 0:08
  And I told everybody on the team and nobody one person showed up, I think, with you. ? And it was an apprentice that was working with you that day, and it's like, yeah, maybe I should go check it out. But this is an opportunity where you can learn and grow and get outside even if you don't work on that.
• 0:09
  I just start to ask, ? Ask the questions to get started. And then once again, how many nos did you get? Andrew? Probably got some nos right off the bat. Long time.
• 0:10
  Right. Tens of thousands of other hfc. Oh yeah. But over time, now you're building your skills now for the future. Right. CO2. A two LR two 90, all these refrigerants that are coming at this point, you're preparing yourself. Where if you're just doing the same thing day in day, which is you gotta do that stuff, it's, but it's learning outside, getting outside your comfort zone.
• 0:11
  And I actually purchased the book, right? That the three of them, I didn't listen to them yet, but this here is like, that's putting, I would've never done that three or four years ago. ? Now, now this is what I, I'm doing now because I know that is outside my comfort zone, like even reading and listening, and it's hard for me to, to do that stuff.
• 0:12
  Andrew: Yeah, exactly. I don't know how many, I mean, I've already been to a couple of these events and I've already, I've taken time off just to go and do it. I think training, per training in the field that you're in is. So important. The training that they provide over there is topnotch. I mean, you get really reputable individuals out in the field that have been working on their piece of equipment, come and teach us technicians on CO natural refrigerants.
• 0:13
  ? Because you, you're out in it training, the technicians, the startups, the commissioning, and then your, your company trains you and you train your company, people in your company, and you guys. Your the team you work with, you say you kind of train each other talking about problems, but what do you do to invest in yourself at your level?
• 0:14
  And of course we need to know. We need to know how that is working to su to be able to support the technicians in the field. So there, there's, there's triangle here because we also get information back from, from the field and push it back up to the, to the RD. So it's a, it's a, it's a triangle of knowledge more or less so, and all that combined is, is, is giving us a, a really good base for developing our skills in, in, in this use.
• 0:15
  Dane Castle. He's from New Zealand. He worked here on Ontario. Now he works with Vaco, LMP. But in this one year, like, and we just had a quick chat. He was like, wow, man, I, you know, I used to train, train some of the guys and like I knew CO2 because I've been doing it for a long time, even from New Zealand, but he was like, in the last year I learned so much.
• 0:16
  Erik: You're absolutely right because you can, you can, you can do all the thinking. You, like, you can do all the lab tests you like. As soon as you, you, you, you meet the real life then, then everything just changes. There will always be a scenario you haven't thought about. There's always be some condition and some, some com combination of, of equipment you haven't thought about.
• 0:17
  'cause all around the world, manufacturers are looking for technicians. People have the skills that want to level up. Do you get paid less when you go to a manufacturer? Lots of times you do, do you get paid the same? Sometimes you do. ? But if you are ready to take that transition, 'cause I did it when I worked, when I moved to Copeland, I took almost a 4% pay cut to go and change what I, lifestyle changed the way I work, changed the way I learned, changed.
• 0:18
  I have so many contractors say, Trevor, you're training all these guys. Do you have anybody that have opportunities? So reach out to me get into the refrigeration mentor community if, if this things are anything that's refrigeration mentor.com/hub. Check it out there. 'cause Andrew is an ambassador there.
• 0:19
  Let's dive into some calm loss issues. And I'm gonna pull up for those that listen on the podcast, you're gonna have to visualize this, but you got a, you got a service call out to a store. The store had E three on it and they had a calm loss issue. You wanna walk us through the, this service scenario, really kind of the way you approached it because I think this is, this is really important to talk about is lessons from the field.
• 0:20
  Could be a case controller. In this case it's a hot gas bypass controller, but it is basically a case controller. Right. So, so that just tells me it's either it doesn't have power or something, something's going on where it's just. Not reading it, it was reading it at one point. So what changed? And that's where, I mean, that's basically our jobs is to go out there and figure out what changed 'cause it was working.
• 0:21
  That's the very first thing I do. 'cause it could be the transformer that's got that went bad, right? So, but if it has power, they should be working. That's how that works. So first thing I did was check power. I did have power to it, so I knew that wasn't the issue. So now I go directly to the comms. So what I did was I took my meter, went right to the, the comm and I had zero volts.
• 0:22
  So yeah, I mean, so it, something internally in that controller is what's causing the calm loss issues. I've had this happen before and the first time that I came across it, I, I, I, it was a valuable lesson. Knowing what is good helps you so much to diagnose when something's not working. So taking the time and investing in whatever controller, whatever you're working on, that knowing that it's working correctly.
• 0:23
  Andrew: okay guys, today what we have is a calm loss issue on one of my hot bypass controller. So what I did was I came up here, I pulled the communications off right here, and what we need to do is make sure we got the correct voltage to it. So what we're going to do is connect. Do the white and then to ground.
• 0:24
  Okay? So again, white to ground. Now look at my bolt. So something internally is messed up in here, causing this to not communicate back to the e3. So we just need to change this guy out and we'll be good to go.
• 0:25
  Andrew: yeah, I mean, the, the biggest thing was I wish I had my better meter. 'Cause that one, I like that meter. It does a pretty good job of what I need for the most part.
• 0:26
  Like this is it. This is starting. And I did the same thing when I started Refrigeration, man, even before that. Back 2019 when I started making videos, it was like, man, I would do a video. And I'm like, I sound terrible. I looked at all this stuff, but over time it just gets better and better and you get used to it now.
• 0:27
  So it, it, nothing will communicate correctly in the, in the beginning. So make sure you have your loops under control. You have your priority under control. And, and that, that's basically the biggest issue. Then depending on the, on the, on the network type you're using, if you're using Modbus on long distance, yeah, you could need a termination resistor at the end.
• 0:28
  After that, when everything, the hardware is open, the, the wiring is okay, then it's usually a question of addressing. Getting double addressing on, on your equipment. So you have two or three controllers with the same address number usually from factory. All the controllers come with the same address, address one address, 10 or something.
• 0:29
  It was like, is reverse polarity, ? And then some are plus go goes plus to plus and, but some like the DLS minus to plus. So you, what you said there, polarity is so, so important because. You might have some that go to a plus and then you have another one that go to a minus. Make sure that you're talk when you're looking at those different loops that they're set up properly.
• 0:30
  I've seen it time and time again where they'll just plug it in, put it in the powers to it, but it's, they don't, there's no lights on it or anything, so you can't tell if it's controlling right or wrong. And they walk away and don't do that. Guys don't, don't do that.
• 0:31
  Controller on the network, make a copy of that guy, download that to the new controller, change the address, check the variables, see if that's okay. So you don't have to do all the copying of a by hand with all the variables. Again, it's just have a backup of, of your system. Yeah. And then, then it should be really easy.
• 0:32
  So for more reasons, for first reason, then you've gotta backup up if something breaks down again. And you can easily make that system go up, come back online again. But also more like a liability for yourself. 'cause now you can prove how the system looked when you left it.
• 0:33
  Maybe it's someone from the store, maybe it's a third party, but you say, I'm here on this date and we need to do a backup. I just did some changes. I wanna make sure that these, if these, anything gets changed here, that we know about it. You know? So that's, I think that's very important. So there's ways around it.
• 0:34
  Erik: Yeah. And you could, and you could risk, you're not able to be able to access the new controller with, with your laptop because the software you got on your laptop is not updated to the new version of, of the controller.
• 0:35
  And then just go ahead, program it, address it. Then throw it back online, but verify that it's working. I think that's huge that all of us that are out here doing service is, is take the five minutes to verify things are working right after we make an adjustment or change. But I do want to piggyback on a couple things that was mentioned earlier today.
• 0:36
  Trevor: Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, so that's, you know, these are lessons from the field, which are really important.
• 0:37
  ? And then. As you go, that's gonna get into your memory bank and that's actually putting your reps in. You know, this is so, so important is putting your reps in and that's how you get better. That's how you learn. It takes seven to 11 times to really grab someone. Then probably sometimes more.
• 0:38
  And I, so it's 10 o'clock here at night for me, doing this training at nine 30. And we were talking about just a a compressor and I it was a nine, nine pin compressor and it just, I, you know, I couldn't remember. How the, the stater worked and how it's connected. And one of the Mohamed that was in the program, he was like, well, Trevor, how, which ones do I do to check my resistance?
• 0:39
  And what are some of the things that, that you do now that really move the mark in mentorship?
• 0:40
  And then when you do some, they're either going to answer or not gonna answer, or they just are cranky. You know? It's just, so that kind of put the tone, like when I. Get in this position where I'm able to mentor, I'm gonna not do that. So, and that's, and that's really where it comes from, is from my past experience going into this field and, and now, now I just embrace it.
• 0:41
  Trevor: Yeah, I love that. What about you, Eric? What are maybe some simple ways technician can start mentoring, you know, without, like, without a formal role? Because some people think it has to be like a full role to be a mentor and that's, that's not really the case. But what are maybe one or two tips that you could give a technician out there to kind of mentor some other ones?
• 0:42
  We talk to the boss guy, see if he's up with that, and, and we maybe spend, maybe only, maybe you will only be there, you know, half the time or something, but you talk things around, you say, okay, now we are done. You go on with your job and, and I carry on with whatever I'm doing. That's, that's, that's a great way to do that, I think, you know, to just use, use each other.
• 0:43
  And, and that doesn't hurt to ask. The boss can say, no, we we're too busy today. But there's always times in the year when it gets slower where there's opportunity to do this. And maybe, maybe you're just doing it on your own time for that two hours before you go to your job. But you know what? That knowledge will reduce stress, make you a better technician.
• 0:44
  And maybe letting them tell me how to do this, and then I do it. So it's, it's my hands who are working and, and he's, he's, he's just, you know, supervising me doing it. It's basically what we do. When, when, when. Yeah. When, from my, for my company, when we, when we ask to come out and, and assist with a, with a new commissioning for a new customer, when go for, for a startup, I don't go out and do the startup.
• 0:45
  Trevor: Yeah. And that's how we uplift the industry. That's how we get the industry better. That's how we get closer to, the, the same knowledge level is by sharing your knowledge. 'cause we can't take this knowledge with us. Do ? So it's how do we help the other people? And, and that's what I do constantly.
• 0:46
  Bring a notepad. 'cause I want you to write stuff down and don't be afraid to ask questions. And then as, as I'm there doing what. Whatever the service call may be, I'm gonna ask them questions. If they know if they're quiet, I'm gonna, I'm pushing 'em, right? So I'm gonna ask them, what is this valve and how does it work?
• 0:47
  Erik: Yeah, don't be afraid to ask your, your peers Don't be a fair trade to ask your manufacturers even if it's. Even if, you know, the rag I'm on at the moment is not made by a they manufacturer.
• 0:48
  'cause there is a lot to know. ? Like, Eric's been doing CO2 for 12, 15 years, even longer, you know, and he's still learning, ? With the new, the new designs that are coming out, and then he is trying to share this knowledge. It doesn't happen overnight, but the more you invest in yourself, the more you're going to learn and sharing that knowledge.
• 0:49
  Sharing, chatting, growing. If you enjoy this, always like it. And if, and if you can be that mentor someone or even have a conversation with someone in the industry to help them out, make them feel a bit more confident, reduce maybe their stress level or give them, yeah, give them a little bit more confidence to go out and try that.