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The Lie Moms Keep Believing About “Doing Enough” · That Mom

• Maria Woods: you Welcome to That Mom, the podcast where we explore finding more joy and more meaning in the beautiful chaos of motherhood. I'm your host Maria, and I'm so glad you're here. Today, I'm so excited to welcome the voice of honesty every modern mother needs, Karen Johnson. You might know her online as the 21st century stay at home mom where she gained a massive following for her refreshing, no filters needed take on the beautiful chaos of parenting. Karen is the author of the incredibly relatable new book, What Do I Want to Be When They Grow Up, which serves as a guide for moms navigating the transition from the trenches of daily parenting to finding their own identity again. What I love most about Karen's work is how she empowers stay at home and working mothers alike to stop apologizing for who we are. She encourages every mom to discover and fuel her own core needs. She reminds us that we are good mothers, even if we don't enjoy every single messy, exhausting moment of the journey. Karen, thank you so much for being on that mom. Karen Johnson, thanks so much for joining me. I have your book here that was really fun for me to read. Thank you so for having me. I'm so excited and I think what you have to say ⁓ starts a little bit about being a stay at home mom and your experience but as a working mom I so much of it resonated with me personally. Good I'm so glad I was really hoping that moms across the board women across the board would be able to find pieces that really resonated with them so that makes me happy to hear. A lot of it and it was funny too which helps. Well, I have been saying that for, I don't know, since I started doing this a decade and a half ago. If I did not laugh, I would not be surviving motherhood. So tell the audience here how you got started. What ⁓ was the impetus behind the book? I know you explain it in the book, but for those that haven't dove in and read it yet. Yeah, well, so I have been writing in the motherhood space for about 15 years. I started when my second child was a newborn. had a toddler and a newborn, and then I went on to have a third. ⁓ I was an English teacher before having kids, became a stay-at-home mom, and struggled from day one, ⁓ and really was always sort of trying to figure out why I was struggling, and writing and connecting with other moms online really helped with that. ⁓ And I always had sort of this voice in my head that said, know, Sunday we're going to write a book. And I dedicate the book to childhood me because I wrote books as a kid and always dreamed of being a writer. And I always kind of thought I want to write something. it took a while to figure out what the topic would be. But then I did a social media post that did really well in 2023 about just reaching out to moms and my place in life, especially if they give up their career, took a break from their career. And my oldest is currently 17. My kids are 17, 15, and almost 13. And I'm starting to think about what's next for me when they have grown up. My husband's career will continue on, and he will flourish in that space. And so I want to encourage us to start thinking about it before they go, because I'm worried that so many women feel this void once their kids leave. ⁓ preparing and thinking about it and sort of prioritizing ourselves and putting ourselves first a little bit, which I think moms often don't do. yeah, so that's kind of how it came to be. Yeah, there's so much there. First, I want to start, you mentioned that you dedicated the book to your younger self. And I'm just going to read it. says, to eight-year-old me, handwriting books in her bedroom and binding them together with twine, telling everyone, I'm going to be a writer someday. We did it. I'm proud of us. Honestly, that to me, I think everyone has a child in them or you have big dreams of what you're going to be when you grow up. And ⁓ that really spoke to me because you've made something come true in yourself that you always saw and you always knew was there. And I think that's a big theme in your book. Yes. Yes. I mean, obviously, thank my husband and my children and my editors and my friends. so many people that I owe pieces of my success to. But at the end of the day, I really just wanted to go back and find her and say, hey, we did this. ⁓ And say, good job me, good job little me. love that. ⁓ Also, you mentioned that in early motherhood you were struggling. And I also think that's something a lot of us can identify with. I know in very early motherhood I would identify as struggling. Maybe I wouldn't have then, but I do now. ⁓ And you said that in your book that you write because motherhood is a thousand times harder than you ever imagined. Yet at the same time, I'm paraphrasing, it's something you always wanted. You always had a yearning to be a mother. Personally, I identified with that also. ⁓ But curious if you could just share a little more on that and how that seems to resonate that particular message. Yeah, I was blindsided. I had a very specific picture of how it was going to go. you know, through all the promotion for this book, someone said something to me a few months ago that was just like, was like, that is it. I was in, I've always been an overachiever. I was a great student and I always had this, if you work hard enough, you'll get, you'll get an A in the thing. That is so me too. think. Yes. And so you're like, I'm going to work really hard at this and I'm going to get an A in motherhood. I'm going to get an A in breastfeeding. I chose and I wanted that. I'm going to get an A in being a stay-at-home mom. I'm going to just do a really good job because that's my whole life's philosophy and it's worked for me. I taught until the day before my first son was born, so it was a very abrupt switch. from being a professional in a busy building with using my brain and having intellectual conversations. I taught high school seniors. So was having, you know, like really good conversations about literature and to boom, home all day with a baby. And it was really hard and I didn't know why. And I took, and then I, and I had two, I had three babies in five years and I just kept adding babies and searching for Why is this hard? And it took me many years to figure out two core pieces for me. I need intellectual stimulation ⁓ to feel like myself. ⁓ And I need personal space and time to myself. Not everybody needs those things as much. ⁓ One of my best friends and I, talk all the time. She loves when her kids are with her all the time, like just in her space. She wants them. And I'm like, I need... He ought to go away. So I really want to encourage moms, especially if motherhood does not look like you thought it would, one, to know that you're still doing a great job. Because now I'm thinking, ⁓ this doesn't look like I thought it would. Why am I not good at this? And why am I feeling now I'm going in my head, why am I failing at this? But also, like, learn about yourself. If you could figure out if this is really hard for you, A couple of your core needs are probably not being met. And when I started writing, I literally felt myself rejuvenating. I just, even though I was writing one or two articles a month, I mean, you know, but it was just something to use my skills to be something other than mom, to be doing something other than wiping butts and cleaning sippy cups and cleaning sticky peanut butter and jelly off the counter. ⁓ And so I really want to reach out to other moms, especially in those early days, and say, it might not look like you thought it would look. One, you're still doing great. And two, it's OK to say that and say, this actually isn't what I thought it would be. And then to think about, how can I work on myself a little bit to make it better? I think that's amazing because Well, one, everyone has needs. ⁓ mine might be similar to yours, but everyone has needs. And I think also if things aren't looking the way you expected, they're also not feeling the way you expected. It doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the way you're feeling, because you maybe feel the craving for more, or you feel the craving for a little personal space, or whatever that core need is for you. I think that message is huge because you get lost in motherhood quite literally because there's no minutes off. You're always on the clock even if you're watching a baby monitor. You're probably thinking about a million things to do while they sleep and maybe doing some of those things as well. So I just think that's such a great message that ⁓ it may not look or feel like you expected and that's okay. And there's a way to think about it and to reframe how can I bring more of what I need into my life? Absolutely, absolutely. And even though I think modern motherhood looks a lot different than maybe it did for our mothers and our grandmothers, the one thing that continues through is that we're expected to be completely self-sacrificial and martyrs and give 110 % of ourselves to motherhood all the time and that doesn't leave space for self-reflection, that doesn't leave space for or time for why is this hard for me? And I'm trying to encourage us to say like we don't have to give 110 % to motherhood every single like you can take away little chunks for yourself. You can be something other than mom even if it means you have to miss bath time or bedtime and let your partner or grandma or a babysitter ⁓ You will come back then to motherhood the next day or a few hours later and be better for them because you fed yourself. And I think so many moms feel that guilt of, but I can't miss this one thing or I can't miss anything. And we don't ever then take the time doing anything for ourselves because we're fed this narrative that we're good moms if we only give all of ourselves to this. Yeah. And I think you're saying We take time out to fill our core needs to do something that we need. It's not self care like taking a bubble bath or going to the spa necessarily. It's taking time to self reflect, to figure out what it is you need to be a little, you know, this podcast is all about creating more joy and meaning for moms every day and helping them do that. And I think that's your call to action for moms to take some time to figure out how can you be a little happier? How can you experience joy? And I think you go back to those moments, the bath time or the bedtime, having a little more appreciation for it if you've been able to get away or do something for yourself. Yes, 100%. I didn't miss anything for a long time. And I don't look back on my stay-at-home-mom years with regret, but It wasn't until they got older and I started writing and having a little career for myself and I went to conferences and doing some of the book promos and things that I started missing things. And I really struggled with it. And my husband has always pushed me to be like, go, they're fine. And you deserve this. you're now showing, I have a daughter. I want her to see me do things for me. So that when she's 45, whether she has children or not. But especially if she becomes a mom, she remembers, I need to do things for myself. And I'm the model for that. Yeah. And speaking of your husband, he did one great thing every night. Can you share that? Because I think this just makes him a superstar. Yeah. So I write about this in the book. ⁓ I mean, I'm very vulnerable and honest about how parenthood was really hard for us, especially at the beginning. ⁓ Because I was so lost in the stay-at-home mom space and I was growing resentful and I was jealous of his successful career and all of that. We did have a lot of tension and there was some resentment, but he did something that I found really helpful and he did not call, I mean, you know, I'm home with three babies all day every day and he did not call on his way home from work and say what's for dinner. He would call and say, do we have a dinner plan or do need me to pick something up? And it was just a little message of he didn't expect that this was my job. having, I mean, the day I got home with my last, I have a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a newborn. And he got on a plane and traveled. I mean, it wasn't even that he was gone. There was no paternity leave. like, he also literally got on a plane and traveled quite a bit. And it was just a nice message of, we're a partnership. You've worked hard all day. I've worked hard all day. Neither one of us is solely responsible for making sure that A, B, and C. you know, these things are met. ⁓ And I just found that to be really important to share. ⁓ and there were nights when it was, no, I don't have dinner plan. So the kids are eating PB and J, that's what we're also having, or please bring something home, or take out or whatever. yeah, and it was, and I, and that chapter is, you know, I think that phone call really helped our marriage. And that was, he did that every day. So. It sounds amazing because I know that. I know the opposite of someone calling asking what's for dinner. That's dangerous. So if any of my husbands are listening, just don't do that. Yeah. Is there a plan? And it's still the same question, essentially. He's hungry and would like to know. But it's also a way of him saying, I validate that you've worked hard today as well. And is there anything I can do to help? So. Yeah. That's wonderful. ⁓ Another thing you talk about is gratitude, ⁓ which I'm a big fan of. I try to practice gratitude daily. And personally, I do feel like it makes a difference. when you, gives you, especially if you think about your husband or your kids, it gives me a little more patience with them when I highlight the good to myself and when I realize, of course, everyone has things that maybe drives you a little crazy or isn't perfect. But when you concentrate on the positive, it's helped me a ton. ⁓ Tell me what you think about gratitude because you talk about it in your book a few times. Yes, I feel like it's a very powerful tool to ground you. ⁓ You know, for example, and this isn't even really related to motherhood, we just are coming out of a deep freeze. I know the whole country is having crazy weather right now. I live in Wisconsin and we're just coming out of another deep freeze where the temperatures, last Friday there was no school because it was too cold, windchill like negative 30 degrees. so just I mean, couldn't even take my dog for a walk. And I'm thinking to myself, and I still went out because I had to take my son plays hockey. He still had hockey practice because that doesn't end no matter what the temperature is. And I'm thinking to myself, wow, I just had this moment of being so grateful that I have a stable home with heat. And it was just one of those little tiny like, okay moments where I'm. you want to complain because it hurts your face to go outside in this weather. But I'm also really grateful for all the things I have that make it far easier for me. ⁓ And so that something creeps up a lot for me when I'm having a little bit of a challenge. It also has really helped my marriage because my husband and I, once our kids were born, took such different paths. I prior to that, we both had careers and we got our masters at the same time and we were sort of living parallel. And then I chose to be a stay-at-home mom. Anyway, I was very jealous of his successful career because I missed my job, but I did choose to be a stay-at-home mom. And I had to really practice feeling grateful for all of the pieces of our, like we are a team and we work well together because he fills in this space and I fill in this space. And he's very grateful that I take care of so many things at home that he doesn't have to think about. And then I'm grateful that he takes care of lot of financial things that I don't have to think about. ⁓ And I have to practice it because I get grumpy and I get resentful and I get envious. ⁓ You know, I get snappy with the kids when they're not picking up their stuff. And then I think of, I'm grateful that I have three healthy, busy kids that didn't maybe pick up their stuff because they're off doing their activities because they have healthy bodies that allow them to do activities. and we have the means to allow them to do activity. So yeah, it's just a mindset shift that really helps when you're feeling that negativity kind of spread around in your brain. Yeah. And I think the more you do it, the more you're able to do it and recognize the good. So that helps too. Yeah. OK, you also talk about a couple things. ⁓ One is the comparison trap. I think that's so relatable. Tell us your thoughts on the comparison trap. Well, I think it's something that gets us our whole lives. You know, you really start experiencing it as a kid. I'm jealous of that. I mean, I remember being probably, I don't know, fourth grade, fifth grade, and there was just this beautiful girl in our grade who just had beautiful hair. she had really, she just seemed to have that confidence. And I just, and I was so envious of it. And I thought, I'll never be her. You know, that feeling. still gets to me sometimes at 45. And so I'm thinking this is just a common thread throughout life for so many of us. ⁓ I was chatting about this with my daughter last night. She rides horses ⁓ competitively and ⁓ had a, she fell off, she fell off her horse. She's okay. ⁓ But she was struggling because another girl was able to control the horse better than her. And that girl has been riding horses fewer number of years. And so she, know, it bothered her that this girl was almost able to leapfrog her. And I was like, you know, in life there's always going to be somebody up here that you're like, I wish I could be that girl. But there's also going to be people here that are going to look at you and say, I wish I could be you. And you really have to just look inward. so I was trying to tell her like the things, you know, she's not naturally incredible at her activities, but she's an incredibly hard worker. So that's the thing to look inward and say, like, these are the things about me that I'm going to be proud of and really try to focus on instead of allowing my worth to be determined by comparing myself to this. The other issue is the internet. Nothing on the internet's real anymore. mean, it's worse and worse all the time. And so we talk about that a lot, too. If you're allowing your worth, your self-worth, to be determined by comparing yourself to something on the internet, first of all, that's probably not real. And in motherhood, if you're comparing yourself to like a mom blogger, an influencer, she might just be putting her highlights on. She's not gonna make a show when her kids melt it down and they had stains all over their shirt at church and her house is a mess and all these things. So you have to remember when you're finding that like, ⁓ I'm not good enough or I'm not worthy or I'm not that, that that, one may or may be real, but also that's that and here's you. and you kind of look inward and find your truth. Yeah, I think that's great. When it comes to the internet, think, yeah, most of it's not real words, the highlights. So you can't compare to the highlights. ⁓ I heard it also said you can't compare someone else's outside to your inside. So it's like, this is just what they're projecting. And I know in your book, you specifically mentioned that put together mom at school drop off. Again, we don't know what's going on in her life, in her marriage, her relationship with her kids. So it is great for her that her hair is perfect and her sweatsuit is matching, but that doesn't really comment to anything on us, right? And we have to pick our own priorities in life. ⁓ 100%. I have struggled with comparing myself to those perfect moms the entire time that I've been a mom. And I've always been... had that voice in my head that's like, ⁓ why is she so, why does it look so perfect for her? Truth is, her life is not perfect. We all have stuff. And so it's important to remember that. Yeah. And sometimes I think, people who really focus on outward appearance of perfection are making up for other things, other areas, maybe they don't feel as perfect. Yeah. Yeah. And then you also have something to say about aging, which I think is great in the diet, the anti-aging industry. ⁓ Would you tell me what's your definition of beauty that you beautifully share in the book? ⁓ I like this is a big. This is the hill that I will die on. I really struggle with the toxic diet and beauty industry. In the book I talk, I create this image of like an elderly, like a grandma, sitting there like on a holiday and you're holding her hand and she's, you know, wrinkly and, but she's just telling these beautiful tales of her life. And she's just, to me that just emanates so much beauty. of that you've lived a life that's full and full of laughter and memories and adventure and you impacted other people in positive ways and you put goodness out there. Those are, and I just can envision like all of us when we're, have old wrinkly hands and we're telling our stories in our later years, to me that's living a beautiful life and that's beauty. And the focus of I have to spend money to change my appearance or fight aging or not look my age, it's exhausting. It's expensive. And it not only takes our money, but it takes our mental energy. ⁓ And so I am sort of on this quest to be like, listen, I'm not saying we shouldn't all do whatever makes us feel good. If you want to your hair, if you want to makeup, you want to do these things. But your inner beauty and... what people look and say that is somebody that I gravitate towards and that is somebody that I want to give my energy to and be in the same space as this is somebody who is joyful and kind and makes the world better. And that to me is what matters so much more. Yeah, I think it's just a great reminder because I think most people would agree with you. And I also like how you take the approach, if you like getting your hair done or your nails painted, go ahead and do that, know, do you. So it's kind of a non-judgmental point of view that you take to focus on inner beauty. But be mindful, yeah, these people are looking for your money and they're kind of preying on our insecurities to get it. So just be mindful of that as you move forward. Proceed with caution and do the things that actually make you happy while really getting in touch and being grounded about where true beauty comes from. For sure. There's something that a lot of people say, when you criticize or think something negative about yourself. Think of what industry is profiting from that right now. What industry is about to profit or could profit from me thinking that negative thing about myself? What am I supposed to now go by? Instead of just looking at yourself and be like, this is I look like. I like who I am and I'm going to continue to go out and do good things in the world. Such a great message. And speaking of that kind of being aware of yourself, you have a message about getting out of your own way and you share your story, which again, really resonated with me. ⁓ Here I am doing this podcast and doing something new for myself. And it can be hard to get out of your own way, but I think it's a great message. Yes. Yes. And I'm so glad. I'm so glad you're doing this podcast. think Talking about motherhood, when I first started this podcast, it a thing, but this is back when Facebook was a baby, and don't think Instagram was even around yet. TikTok wasn't around yet. ⁓ But whatever medium, whatever way you can connect with mothers, I think that's so wonderful. ⁓ I have always struggled with sort of doubting myself, and because I'm a perfectionist, it's like, well, if I can't do it, what if there's one tiny piece that doesn't go? perfectly then it will be a total fail and that's another way to kind of and so I Because I'm a writer and I was an English teacher I always feel like I live in analogies and I have this image in the book of sort of literally stepping off of the path and letting me through like I'm on the path blocking me I step off the path and I get to go through because I finally was like, okay I'm gonna write this book that I have wanted to write for a long time, but I was always like, ⁓ no, I can't I shouldn't for whatever reason fair failure ⁓ not believing I could do it, know, those types of things. ⁓ And I think there's so many women who do have that, I don't know, and do I have time, and that guilt, this might take away from my kids. ⁓ But yes, if we can literally just step off of the path and let ourselves through, at least to try it. Just, you know, it doesn't have to be the greatest thing ever, but go do it. and then be able to say I did that, got out of my own way is so powerful. It's such a gift we can give to ourselves. Yeah, that rings true for. someone that is taking that time to explore themselves, to figure out what their core needs are, and then how can they incorporate that core need into their daily or weekly or regular life. And there could be something holding you back, that fear of failure you mentioned, or the feeling of you're not good enough to try it, or the guilt that you mentioned. ⁓ So really just taking that recognition that sometimes we're the ones holding ourselves back. And I think the fear is real, ⁓ but we need to move forward anyways to try to give a piece of ourselves or to give ourselves back one of those needs, something that could potentially benefit us. Sometimes I like to think of what's the worst case scenario because I'll be afraid to do something or try something or post something on social media and then I have to really ask myself what am I afraid of really because what's the worst that could happen and sometimes that helps me to just get my own. Yes, yes, I love that. think that's really helpful. ⁓ You have another section about lies we tell ourselves. ⁓ And I thought some of these may ring true with other moms. Would you share a little bit about these lies? Yes. Well, I think that we tell ourselves everything is okay or I've got this, which it's tricky because I do think there's benefit in saying I've got this. ⁓ Because you do have to sort of, I mean, motherhood is really hard. ⁓ I mean, even something as simple, it sounds simple now, but it was really challenging back then, is like leaving the house with a potty training toddler. It's a gamble, which could go either way. ⁓ But what I want to encourage is also to say, ⁓ don't, I don't have this. And I'm going to figure it out, and I'm going to be okay, like you said, that worst case scenario, whatever happens on the other side of this. ⁓ that you you said when you're scared of something people often say I know you're scared do it scared do it anyway you know so that whole idea of ⁓ I've got this and ⁓ you know really feeling like you have to put forth this really brave together you know like that illusion of that perfect mom who seems to have it all together There are so many, I mean I have teenagers now, I do not have it. Like last night I sat down on the couch and I had to myself a beer, random Wednesday night beer, because I was just like, woo, this is a hot mess, a lot of days. And so I think there's a value in saying that truth to myself. You also gave an example in the book where you met a friend and I think at one point she said, I'm going to take your kids for the day and let you relax. And you were like, no, no, I'm good. I got it. She's like, no, I'm really going to do it. And ended up she did take your kids for you. But you were kind of reflecting like, why did I fight that so hard when another mom was reaching out saying, no problem. I got your kids for the day. Yeah, it was hard for me to. accept help. think again we have this message that's sent to us generationally that we have to do it all and ⁓ not accept help and not feel like we need help. it was the greatest gift because the other thing that happened ⁓ I think around that same time is my husband had been bugging me to take a trip, just the two of us, when the kids were little. And we have, and very fortunate, we have grandparents who are very hands-on and available so I think not everybody can do that. I also kind of fought that too. And when both of these things finally happened where he and I went on a trip and I did let my friend take the kids, both of those times was the greatest pouring in of my cup that during those baby days and toddler days, I needed so badly. And so that's the other thing I encouraged. Not only should you take the help, but if you can offer that to another mom, it's, around that time was when I finally started setting up a, ⁓ kids swap with a friend of mine and it was glorious. We had kids the same age and she would take them every other Wednesday and I would take them every So every Wednesday, I either had her kids or she had my kids. so, mean, truly one of the greatest things I ever did. but yeah. Somebody had- something I think a really creative tip that you know, your stay at home mom or you just take the kids. at certain times doing that swap. So every other Wednesday you would get off or get some hours to yourself and every other Wednesday you would watch her kids. I mean, that's pretty genius right there. Yeah. If it's somebody you trust and somebody who's, you you kind of align, I mean, she was actually right about her in another part of the book. She was a very calm, gentle, not yelling parent. And I always envied her to talk about like comparison trap. I always, I always wondered how she could keep herself so centered and I'm just an emotional, know, ⁓ but yeah, so we weren't exactly the same in a lot of ways, but it was wonderful. But yeah, I had to work through both of those times. My husband had to really push me to, ⁓ that's what happened. He never actually won that fight. I had to go be a bridesmaid in my best friend's wedding ⁓ when I was still breastfeeding my second child. So I had to leave the kids. I was living in Kansas and she was in Boston and I was gone for like three days and had an absolute ball. I cried on the plane, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, but I was like, I have to go do this for her. Had the time of my life, got home and said to my husband, now we can go on a trip. And we did and it was wonderful. And when my friend took the kids that day, same thing. It was like, ⁓ I can do this and I should do this. But really somebody had to kind of barge their way into my life. Yes, I very much encourage women. like, please let somebody take your kids. They're to be OK and you need it. Take a break. Take a break and do some reflection, right? Or take just some time to have some fun. Yes, binge watch Netflix. I you don't have to be like, now I'm going to clean, unless you want to. And that makes you feel good or whatever. I hate to clean. If I have quiet time to myself, I'm going sit and read a book. I might go for a walk or I'm going to binge watch something I've been wanting to watch on Netflix and I don't feel guilty about it anymore. But it took me a while to get there where I don't feel guilty. Yeah. I think this is a perfect segue ⁓ to the last question I have for you. because my podcast is centered around finding more joy and more meaning in the everyday. I love that you have an unapologetic happiness list. Would you share ⁓ some of the things on this list for you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny because I feel like everybody's always talking about her, but I talk a lot about Taylor Swift. I really resonate with Taylor Swift music, especially her later stuff, because she's, you know, a grown woman now, but ⁓ there are definitely opinions about, you're too old to listen to this music, or you're too old to wear, you know, there's all these rules that society says we should follow. And I say scrap all that, and if it's not hurting anyone, I also talk about like, I love Christmas music, and I start playing it on November 1st, I do not care, I mean, I'll play it in July if I want to, but like, ⁓ and I love Friends reruns, and... I do feel like my nightly routine of once the kid, know, everyone's settled, I mean they're teenagers now, so they usually stay up later than I do, but once sort of the day is done, sitting down and watching a comfort show and having a crunchy snack or something, these are just things that bring me joy and I'm not gonna apologize, I'm not gonna, you know, they're not hurting anyone and I just really, whatever it is, if you really just love doing puzzles, if you really, you know. whatever music you want to listen to or if you want to wear a crop top. mean, there's no there's no reason that anything that's making you happy that's not hurting anyone else shouldn't be continued to be the thing that makes you happy. And I think we own that. It's such a great reminder that even if it's silly and small, it can have a big impact on us and your day. And when you incorporate one or two things every day that you just love and you're not going to apologize for can really have a large impact on your life. Absolutely. One of my closest friends loves the show, The Summer I Turn Pretty. Now, I think that's a show for like teenage girls, young younger girls mostly, or that's what's geared towards. She's about to turn 40 and I love how unapologetically she's obsessed with the show. It makes her so happy to talk about and I'm like, that's amazing. And I love that she spreads that joy. Like, so we all, you know, we all talk about it and she talks to my teenage daughter about the show. ⁓ But I think that's fantastic. If there's something that you love, tell the world how much you love it because other people probably love it too and they want to hear about it. yeah. And don't worry whether or not you should like it or just enjoy it. Just enjoy it. Yep. Absolutely. That's great. Karen, anything else in closing that you want moms to know, whether they're stay-at-home moms or working moms? I mean, I think I always look back at my own journey. I'm 17 years in. I now need to learn how to be a college mom soon. need someone to hold my hand and tell me that I'm going to be OK. But I always look back and remember that I needed to know that I was doing a good job. and that was my greatest fear. So one, you're doing a good job. Write it on a post-it, stick it to your mirror. ⁓ And also, do not be afraid of putting yourself first. ⁓ Even if it means you have to miss a thing, you're there for so many things. Your kids are gonna be okay, and they're going to see you put yourself first in the way the other adults in their lives probably put themselves first. And I think that's a really good gift to give our kids, to let them see that. So I always encourage moms to do that too. Two powerful reminders. ⁓ Again, your book is called What Do I Want to Be When They Grow Up? And you can find this on Amazon. Where else can people find you? I know you have your social media. ⁓ Yes, the book is also at Target and Bookshop. ⁓ And yes, my social media, I'm known on my, I mean, I'm old, so my biggest platform is Facebook, which ages me. I'm the 21st Century, stayed home on the acronym, S-A-H-M, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads is the best place to find me. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Karen. I really appreciate your time, and you gave us a lot to think about. This was so fun. I really enjoyed being here. Thank you.