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Harmony in Leadership: Mike Brenner's Unique Approach · Unstoppable Success Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Unstoppable Success Podcast, where we spot like visionary leaders who have mastered the art of growth, purpose, and powerful connections.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Jacques, connector, high performance coach, and creator of the Leap to Your Success Framework in Two Steps TS.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we dive into bold insights, real conversations, and powerful strategies to fuel your growth, deepen your relationships, and ignite transformational momentum.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were meant to be insulable.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's leap into the podcast.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of our great podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I am your host, Jacqueline Strominger, and I have the amazing privilege to welcome today Mike Brenner.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: He is an amazing human, and let me tell you a little bit about him.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he is the CEO of Right Chord Leadership, which seamlessly blends his extensive experience as an international leadership consultant and professional professional musician to inspire and educate leaders and their teams.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: With over two decades in leadership consulting and 35 years in music, Mike's unique approach grounded in the belief that when people work in harmony, great things happen.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: He emphasizes the power of collaboration and communication.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And through his chords model and innovative workshops, he partners with top organizations to enhance employee engagement, reduce turnover, which is so huge, and foster inclusive environments demonstrating the profound connection between musical harmony and effective leadership.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the podcast, Mike.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So glad to have you here.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm delighted to be here, Jaclyn.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to uh having this conversation with you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for inviting me.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Mike, music is so important.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the the I love how what you are doing is bringing music and leadership kind of together.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a huge combination.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so we shared a little bit beforehand.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: How did you have and how did this aha moment to bring the two come together?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a that's a great question, Jacqueline.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I've been playing music since fourth grade, which was let's just say a long time ago.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I've been playing professionally since I was a teenager.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's many, many decades.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've also um been uh a trainer, facilitator, organizational development uh consulted, working with leaders and teams for about 25 years now.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I pivoted out of advertising and got into learning and development.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that was around the turn of the millennium.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't until about a decade ago where I saw the possibility of blending those two worlds in a way that was not only satisfying to me as a practitioner, but could also bring this content to people in a way that was perhaps a little unique and a little uh a little different than what they had seen.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and to make a long story much shorter, it came together from a conversation I had with a friend and colleague who asked me, Well, Mike, you know, what do you think differentiates you in the marketplace from all the other consultants and trainers and and coaches out there?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, uh gee, I don't really know.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was my actually my my initial answer.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, uh, that's not a very good answer, Mike.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he was right about that.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he said, Yeah, but dig a little deeper.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started to talk about my love of music and how I've been playing music for decades.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And music is a big passion of mine.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he stopped me and he said, You know, if you could see your face right now as you talk about your love of music, you would you would see just how you know enthusiastic you are about it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I think you've answered your own question.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you should consider doing is blending your love and passion and background as a musician with your background and expertise in leadership development and team building and organizations and things like that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was really the epiphany.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was the moment.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, the way we always kind of look for what's wrong with an idea before we consider what may be right with an idea, I said to him, Well, what if people feel that the music piece is sort of superfluous or frivolous or you know, just seems kind of gimmicky?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, you know, there's always going to be people out there who don't resonate with whatever it is you're doing.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you create something that is authentic and that has your genuine passion behind it, I guarantee you that people will connect to it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he was right.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's it's it's it's served me, you know, very well since then.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh just uh really enjoy talking about music in the context of business, in the context of leaders, and in the context of organizations.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: People seem to really uh they get it, they really get it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And no pun intended, it strikes a chord.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh, exactly.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um well once once I decided to go down that that that pathway, I started to think of all the the different phrases and and words that could, you know, I could use to to uh build this brand.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I hit upon that familiar phrase, strike the right chord.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized how you can strike the right chord in a musical context and you can strike the right chord in a leadership context.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then that just got shortened to right chord leadership, and everything kind of flowed from there.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll we'll talk about right chord leadership in a second, but I just have to share because I always think about the conductor, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've actually shared this um with you know other people as well, which is you know, the leader in the business is really just like the conductor.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: They need to bring out the right no pun, like right notes to make it all come together.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And some people will play like play louder at different times than others, but they still collectively work together as a team to create a beautiful sound.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I was first exposed to the notion of leader as conductor uh in in graduate school.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I love classical music.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up on classical music and I I I still listen to a lot of classical music.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when I was introduced uh to jazz when I was in fourth grade, because it was all classical, classical, classical.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then in um, well, actually seventh grade, not fourth grade, uh, seventh grade.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been playing clarinet since fourth grade.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And my band instructor said, Hey, let me put on some jazz for you.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What now?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna play for me?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he put on an old Miles Davis record.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, What is this?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mean he's making that up as he goes along?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's no sheet music?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's just he goes, Yeah, that's called improvisation.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what I realized over the years, and even more so now, for me at least, organizations seem to be more um uh like jazz ensembles than orchestras.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had this debate, and then and the the the conductor orchestra metaphor absolutely has merit.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I find that organizations are messy, and organizations right, we're not reading from a piece of sheet music, we're often improvising, uh, despite all the strategizing we might do things happen, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Unexpected.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so the agility and ability to pivot like a jazz ensemble, I always felt was more akin to a modern organization than even an orchestra, um, where it's about precision and it's about you know playing the note that the composer intended.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: If the composer wrote a B flat, you can't play a C, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: You got to play the jazz ensemble.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can play virtually anything you want.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's up to your bandmates to listen and follow and respond empathically and and you know be uh be agile and and who's the soloist and who's the who's supporting the soloist.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I just found all of that was really um very reminiscent of the way I tend to look at the modern organization.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I typically use jazz and jazz ensembles as my main metaphor, if that makes sense.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, it totally, it totally makes sense, and I and actually, you know, I think our listeners, you know, I think that's a key thing to also really think about is that you know if you're thinking from your from the standpoint of a company or an organization, a lot of times in what you just said, I think is it really important is that you have to be listening, yes, to to in order in order for things to work and and to grow to to meld together.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Key as a even as a leader, these these matter the most, our ears.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: As I'm and if you're listening to this on the podcast, you're not seeing me point to my ears, but my you have to listen, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh Dan Goldman, one of the forefathers pioneers of emotional intelligence, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: We all know Dr.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dan Goldman.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I I often play a video of his in my workshops where he says uh he's talking about poor listening skills, which he calls like he calls like the common cold of leadership.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that that always cracks me up because I mean he's not wrong.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's not to that's not to indict you know any particular leader, but we see it all the time.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: This uh um and and I find it ironic that with the prevalence of modern technological devices that are intended to help us or facilitate communication um and listening, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right, it they they often seem to degrade our listening skills.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I find that somewhat ironic.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But to go back to your original point, Jacqueline, yeah, listening is absolutely critical.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I find that even with experienced leaders who are often in a hurry to sort of share their own narrative or their directions or their instructions or whatever it is that they're sharing, we often don't allow time and space to listen adequately to the response.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm often, you know, working with clients to really lean into that skill, practice listening.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the way I do that is I play a piece of music and I ask the folks in the in the uh workshop to come up with a title for it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the point of that exercise is to say, talk to me about the quality and level of listening that was required to come up with a title.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: It required some very deep listening, didn't it?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It required you to avoid distractions in the environment and focus, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how often do we listen at that depth?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, and of course, the answer to that is not very often at all.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that, of course, that leads to a much larger conversation about listening.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it starts with listening, it starts with empathy, it starts with creating a space for people who might have different perspectives than you, um, and resisting the urge to discount them or devalue them or dismiss them, but to be open and receptive to them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and all of that is is is of course covered in the in the book that you mentioned earlier.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking of book, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you have just you have um right core leadership and you just have come out in April uh with strike uh strike the right chord.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so so talk a little bit about the book um and and also your program.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so strike the right core, the subtitle is The Emerging Leader's Guide to Exceptional Performance.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why, and and more experienced leaders, I would imagine, could find value in the book as well, but it really is intentionally targeted for developing leaders or emerging leaders because I felt there was an opportunity in the marketplace.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: The more we read about millennials and Gen Z entering the workforce, and you know, perhaps they're they're well-intentioned, they're ambitious.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of millennials and Gen Z.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And contrary to some of the stereotyping that goes on about those generations, I find them to be very smart, very shrewd, very ambitious, and very knowledgeable.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But many of them, in my experience, sort of lack the polish, maybe the the interpersonal skills, if you will, that would allow them to really thrive in today's uh in today's workplace.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so the book is intended to say, hey, look, let me share some things with you that I've learned over 25 years of doing this, that, you know, maybe they maybe they didn't teach you in business school.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I imagine sitting across from an emerging leader, having a cup of coffee and having a very informal casual conversation about communication, about accountability, about trust and respect, um, about um emotional intelligence, and just kind of sharing with them, hey man, here's some things that I think will will help you as you grow and develop as a leader.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that was sort of the the orientation, if you will, that I adapted, or I should say that I adopted to write this book.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course, I, you know, I have a host of programs and workshops and and webinars that are based on the the different principles and and uh concepts that are discussed in the book.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um you know, but I find I you know I I love this focus on the burgeon leader, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because that, you know, I know you you have a master's, I have a you know, my degree in business.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are certain things they don't teach you in school.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not it's not necessarily that they don't necessarily it's it's sometimes it's harder to teach in a classroom versus once you're actually in the workforce and you're becoming the leader.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can have scenarios, but honestly, until you're in it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like uh that's true for a lot of things, Jacqueline, right?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: You could you you know you could bury your nose in in textbooks and be taught by even you know wonderful professors in school, which which I was and I'm sure you were too, but like it's not until you actually find yourself in a in a in a functioning organization with people who may be very different from you, have different styles, different temperaments, different personalities, different agendas, different goals, different aspirations.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: You got to figure all that out.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's one thing if you've spent decades in in in organizations and you, you know, you can kind of you've learned how to uh manage all that.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're a burgeoning leader, as you say, or developing leader, emerging leader, you you you may not have those fully formed skills that you really need to to be successful.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I kind of came up with the chords model, uh, which you mentioned in the introduction.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought about again a way of leveraging music to to foster leadership development and team building.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, each of the six letters in the chords in the word chords is a note, if you will, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you play all six notes, so C is communication, H is harmony, O is ownership, R is respect, D is direction, and S is support.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the book goes into each of those in great depth.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: But the the premise is if you're playing all six notes as a leader or as just an individual contributor to a team, you're probably you know experiencing a fair amount of success.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: But with each fewer note that you play, uh you start to see some dysfunction leak in.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always say to my clients, what chords are you playing?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is a question I'll ask them.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think of the chords we play as the energy with which we show up at work, the the way we comport ourselves, the way we carry ourselves, uh, the the quality of the interactions we have with our colleagues, with our boss are collectively the chords we play.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'll tell young young leaders, hey, I want you to be more aware more aware of the chords you play every moment of every day, because they can make a huge difference to your success.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um they they get it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: They get it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it seems to you know, strike a chord with them.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, Mike, that it it is so important that you said that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and one thing that I actually I listeners, and I also really want you to understand this more than anything, is that uh asking that question, like what chords are you playing, or you know, and and how does that how are those chords that you're playing relate to the chords that other people on the team are playing?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what and how are you showing up?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because and I'll give an example.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I have um you know, there I I'm just thinking about uh a woman who's in a part of a group that is in this company that I also work with, and she's horrible.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I mean, like oh no, like I mean, it's it's sad.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in the sense that, you know, because she like how she shows up is negative.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: She's a complainer, there's always the excuses, right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So and you almost have to say, you know, being able to say to somebody like that, like, you know, or in general, like to look at yourself, like if you're not getting the results that you want, either in your work, in your leadership, what chords are you playing?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's the energy that you're bringing to the table?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are you that person that I just described who's like, oh, cringe?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%, Jacqueline.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I talk about that when we talk about or when I talk about you know emotional intelligence.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: One of the key dimensions of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Without self-awareness, without an understanding of um, yes, what makes you tick, who you are, what your hopes, dreams, and aspirations are, that's one dimension of self-awareness.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: The other dimension of self-awareness is what kind of impact are you having, you know, on the people around you, uh, which goes back to the what chords are you playing?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you lack self-awareness, uh that's that's a huge um liability at work.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so what I try to underscore with the folks I work with, the clients I work with is you know, sometimes you you gotta turn the mirror on yourself and ask yourself if I'm not getting the results I want.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, it's very easy to blame others and point fingers and say I have the worst luck.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we know people like that, but it takes the courageous person to turn the mirror and say, what maybe the chords I'm playing are holding me back or hindering me in some way.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I need to play some different chords to get some different outcomes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's a question which I will frequently pose to my clients who are, you know, not getting where they want to get.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'll say, you know, not everybody is willing to do the heavy lifting, the self-reflection required to get a you know, an increased understanding of what you're doing that may be holding you back.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I once was doing a workshop for a group of labor and delivery nurses who worked on the same floor at a hospital here in Philadelphia.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the nurses who had been uh a part of the team for many, many decades, she was like a senior nurse there, was explaining something to me and the full group that you know wasn't going particularly well.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, Well, would you consider playing some different chords to potentially get some different results?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget what she said.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Ah, I've been here since the Liberty Bell cracked.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So she said she said it very dismissively and very sarcastically.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, everybody laughed.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought about it, and of course, that's code for don't look to me to change, you know, I've been here forever, and everyone else is gonna have to kind of work around me.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought to myself, gee, yeah, on the surface, that's a funny thing to say, but it's also very revealing of a person's on lack of self-awareness and unwillingness to to maybe play some different chords.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's critical.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anybody, and you probably don't either, Jacqueline, who's successful in any endeavor in life, who's not willing to do a little self-reflection and and ask, you know, what role am I playing either in my success or my lack of success?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's a hallmark of any of anyone who who ever achieves anything worthwhile is someone who's not afraid to do that level of self-reflecting.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's something that I I really underscore with my clients.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: If they want to be not only successful at work, but successful in life.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Mike, that is it is so true.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I would say that I think that that is something that you have as a as a good leader or somebody who who is has is embracing success or has it, the only way to get there is to be.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: able to look inward to see because in order to look inward if you can if you can't look inward you will never know how you can change to be better so that you can create more of an impact you just you have to be able to yeah as you said turn turn the mirror on yourself and say what am I doing but spend that time you know it's really important to spend that time to understanding who you are as a human what do you need to do and and as you as you share with what you're doing is what chords am I playing and what chords need to change to make the music that I'm producing better and different.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: You you got it right whether whether I'm coaching a client or a delivering a you know training program I literally I think a hundred percent of the time the the event or the experience or the conversation begins with uh uh an exploration of self-awareness and I'll say you know how willing are are you to to do some of the work I'm gonna ask you to do because if if you're not going to sort of consider the chords you're playing that's fine but the I'm I'm I'm not the right you know I'm not the right person for you.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that doesn't mean you know we don't have to go to some you know silent retreat and not talk for a week as we examine our inner spirit and you know that's fine if you want to do that but that that's not the kind of self-reflection I'm referring to.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking about you know take take take some time you know every day or a few times a week to ask a very simple question which is what chords am I playing and are they helping or hindering my progress and that that that you know whether you frame it in chords or any other metaphor you want to use for me it is a hallmark of any champion.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: You talk to any athlete any great musician any great actor anyone who's great at what they do they're always asking themselves what am I doing and is it helping or hindering my success and my progress.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And to me it's just it's fundamental to success as a leader it's fundamental to success as a as a team contributor it's fundamental to success as a musician it's fundamental to success as a human being and that's why the really the first part of the of the book is really focused on emotional intelligence self-awareness self-management right staying calm under pressure staying calm under stress navigating through difficult moments challenging moments social awareness which is about interacting with other people with a high level of empathy um and then um relationship management which is all about trust and and and so forth and from that foundation of skills comes sort of the more you know the more uh sophisticated skills but it all begins with that with that emotional intelligence I absolutely love it you know Mike I love what you're doing and and listeners you know do me a the favor and uh go out and go get the book strike the right chord I'm actually going to make sure that we have a link to the book in the show notes but go out and get the book whether you're a seasoned leader or you're you know just starting out on your leadership journey it is something that we can always take the time to to learn and do better at uh and I and Mike I think what you're what you're doing and what you're bringing to the table um for leaders and helping develop leaders is so important.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I really want to thank you for bringing this um and being a guest on the podcast.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And again listeners um go out connect with Mike and do me the other favor and hit subscribe and the best would is share this with your friends and colleagues because you know that there is somebody out there that needs to hear this message.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for listening.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host Jacqueline Strominger and Mike thank you so much for being an amazing guest.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much Jacqueline I hope we played some some right chords today uh I appreciated your excellent questions and being a guest on your podcast was a lot of fun.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you thank you thank you so much for joining me on the Unstoppable Success podcast where we don't just talk about growth we lean toward it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: If something today lit a fire within you sparked a new idea or gave you the extra push forward please don't keep it to yourself.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Share this episode and podcast with a friend, colleague or fellow high achiever be sure to subscribe rate and review and most importantly connect with me Jacqueline Schumeter at leaptoyoursuccess.com for coaching community and your next bold move keep leading with intention keep building your network with purpose and most of all keep leaping because you are meant to be unstoppable