Latest / Parent's Talk with Francine Juhlin / EPISODE 14: Neurodivergent Children Aren't Broken

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EPISODE 14: Neurodivergent Children Aren't Broken · Parent's Talk with Francine Juhlin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, Francine and Juline here the founder of Parents Talk.
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  Speaker 1: I am here with Rebecca Engel Engel, and we are
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  Speaker 1: going to have this lovely conversation today about neuro diversity
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  Speaker 1: and how it really isn't a bad thing because these
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  Speaker 1: beautiful little children have so many straints that the rest
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  Speaker 1: of us might not have. So first, I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: ask Rebecca to introduce herself and tell us a little
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  Speaker 1: bit about ourself.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm Rebecca Ingle.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a special education teacher, author and advocate, and I'm
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  Speaker 3: passionate about creating inclusive educational environments for our nard everdgeing students.
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  Speaker 3: My journey into education was shaped by my own experiences.
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  Speaker 3: I was non verbal until I was five years old,
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  Speaker 3: and I often navigated a world that didn't understand or
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  Speaker 3: support my needs. And growing up with learning delays and
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  Speaker 3: I was placed on an IP until I was in
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  Speaker 3: fifth grade. It gave me first hand experiences of the
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  Speaker 3: challenges many of our narrative virgin students.
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  Speaker 2: Face in traditional fool systems.
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  Speaker 3: However, rather than letting these challenges limit me, I use
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  Speaker 3: them to feel my drive for desiring change, and I
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  Speaker 3: know what it feels like to be misunderstood, underestimated, or
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  Speaker 3: simply passed over because my needs didn't fit into a
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  Speaker 3: conventional mold.
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  Speaker 2: And now I'm twenty two years old, I'm working on
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  Speaker 2: my master's degree and I'm teaching full time.
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  Speaker 4: Wow, what an accomplishment. Yay?
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  Speaker 1: And I can imagine that they tried to fix you
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  Speaker 1: rather than just accept this is who you are and
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  Speaker 1: try to work with what you have and all your
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  Speaker 1: special talents. They try to fix you to fit into
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  Speaker 1: this mole that you didn't fit in.
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  Speaker 4: Is that true? Yes?
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  Speaker 1: And what do you do when parents start trying to
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  Speaker 1: fix their kids?
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  Speaker 4: Now?
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  Speaker 3: So that's a belief I've carried throughout my whole career
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  Speaker 3: and it's central to my approach is both a teacher
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  Speaker 3: and an advocate. I strongly believe that narrativersity is not
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  Speaker 3: something that needs to be fixed. It is a natural
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  Speaker 3: and beautiful variation in the way people's brains function and
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  Speaker 3: process the world, whether that be autism, ADHD, dyslexi, or
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  Speaker 3: any other narrative vigent trait.
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  Speaker 2: These differences should not be viewed as deficients.
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  Speaker 3: They are simply another way of being, a way of thinking,
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  Speaker 3: in a way of experiencing the world. That can often
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  Speaker 3: offer remarkable strengths and valuable insights. As an educator, I've
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  Speaker 3: seen firsthand the incredible abilities that narrative vergent students bring.
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  Speaker 2: To the table.
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  Speaker 3: Students who have the ability to focus deeply on subjects
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  Speaker 3: that others may often look. Students who think creativity creatively
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  Speaker 3: and solve problems and ways that others never considered. I've
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  Speaker 3: even seen students who possess a level of empathy and
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  Speaker 3: passion that can deeply impact those around them. These are
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  Speaker 3: not disabilities, they are gifts. And we when we support
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  Speaker 3: and nurture these gifts, we allow these students to thrive.
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  Speaker 4: And you know what, you bring up all of these gifts.
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  Speaker 1: And I work with a lot of neurodivergent adults, and
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  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what some of them are like the
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  Speaker 1: best at expels Excel spreadsheets because they have that concentration
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  Speaker 1: on those little details. And I love having them on
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  Speaker 1: my teams because well, I'm a vision person and then
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  Speaker 1: I get these detail oriented people on my teams to
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  Speaker 1: keep me on track with all the details of these
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  Speaker 1: huge visions I have. I will see this in your students,
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  Speaker 1: and how how do you encourage them to find what
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  Speaker 1: it is that's special about them and nurture those talents.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So I I think what I do is I teach
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  Speaker 5: my students that they're not broken through the power of literature.
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  Speaker 3: There's so many great books out there that teach kids
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  Speaker 3: through experiences the the their needs and what they need
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  Speaker 3: to succeed. And sadly, our educational system is still focusing
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  Speaker 3: on fixing what is perceived is broken, rather than celebrating
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  Speaker 3: the unique abilities of renarrative virgin students. And this is
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  Speaker 3: something that I'm working to change every day I go
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  Speaker 3: into my classroom and it's a shift of the narrative.
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  Speaker 3: You have to shift the narrative from fixing to support,
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  Speaker 3: and you can recognize the strains and continue to bring
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  Speaker 3: them out in a child. You know, take their special interest,
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  Speaker 3: take their thing that require that they use for emotional regulation,
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  Speaker 3: and implement it into their core subjects. I have a
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  Speaker 3: kid who likes cutting paper, So for math, we're going
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  Speaker 3: to cut six pieces of paper added to seven pieces
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  Speaker 3: of paper. You know, like, that's if that's what we
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  Speaker 3: got to do, that's what we got to do. Bring
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  Speaker 3: out your child strains, bring out the strainths of the
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  Speaker 3: of the kid rather than suppressing them because it's time
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  Speaker 3: for academics.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm hearing is what we term as normal learners
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  Speaker 1: are the children who don't have all these special abilities
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  Speaker 1: that they're neurodivergent have. In my opinion, they would benefit
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  Speaker 1: from these learning styles too. How much more fun will
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  Speaker 1: it be to learn by cutting up paper and adding
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  Speaker 1: them up rather than the old fashioned way of writing it.
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  Speaker 1: Back in my day, we used to copy off the
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  Speaker 1: blackboard and memorize things. I think if we took lessons
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  Speaker 1: from the neurodivergent community, it would be more interesting for
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  Speaker 1: everybody around.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a question.
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  Speaker 1: The children recognize that some of these students are different
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  Speaker 1: or do they just grow up thinking.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, this is just Bob. That's how Bob acts.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm a special at teachers, so every student
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  Speaker 3: I interact with those have special needs, and I think
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  Speaker 3: that sometimes they do. I think when the kids are
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  Speaker 3: more some of your needs. But I think sometimes they don't.
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  Speaker 3: You know, It's funny because the one of my jen
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  Speaker 3: A classes that I go into, the teacher will say,
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  Speaker 3: everybody who works with Miss Single go to the back
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  Speaker 3: with Miss Single. Like during this thirty minutes for math
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  Speaker 3: which is fine. And I have like eight other kids
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  Speaker 3: that aren't mine who are like I want to work
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  Speaker 3: with the single Miss Single can be my teacher?
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  Speaker 2: How do I get into Miss Single's room? And it's
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  Speaker 2: just funny because it's like.
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  Speaker 3: I don't like, you know, if they knew that they
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  Speaker 3: were disabled, and they knew that these kids were you know,
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  Speaker 3: differently abled and you know, running through these things, how
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  Speaker 3: do you think do you think those kids would respond
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  Speaker 3: that same way?
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  Speaker 5: Right?
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  Speaker 3: Like, do you really think that they would want to
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  Speaker 3: be at the back table with me?
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  Speaker 2: You know? Like so I feel like it depends on
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  Speaker 2: the kid. You know, I think that they know, but
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  Speaker 2: they don't care.
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  Speaker 1: Because you're having fun. They just want to have fun
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  Speaker 1: with you. Yes, because you make learning fun.
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  Speaker 4: I love that.
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  Speaker 1: Now you're a children's book author, and as you could see,
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  Speaker 1: I'm a children's book author. I have my own children's
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  Speaker 1: book authors group that we meet every Friday.
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  Speaker 4: At three point thirty on zoom.
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  Speaker 1: So if any of you listening today our children's book author,
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  Speaker 1: drop a note in the comment and ask for the
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  Speaker 1: link to join us Friday at thy thirty. Find out
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  Speaker 1: what other authors are doing to promote our books. Because
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  Speaker 1: we are on a mission to get more books into
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  Speaker 1: more hands. So what I want to know, Rebecca, is
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  Speaker 1: what is the special mission of your children's book?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so all of what I've talked about today, you know,
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  Speaker 3: one of the ways I strive to amplify this message
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  Speaker 3: is through my book.
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  Speaker 2: My book is Step Into My Shoes.
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  Speaker 3: This book is a reflection of my experiences growing up
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  Speaker 3: as an right divergin individual and the experiences.
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  Speaker 2: Of my students. The story follows my character named Rocky.
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  Speaker 3: She's a special education student and she navigates the world
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  Speaker 3: of school, friendships and self discovery. Rocky, like many of
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  Speaker 3: my students and myself, had to overcome obstacles that are
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  Speaker 3: often invisible to others, and through this journey, we get
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  Speaker 3: to see the strength, resilience, and determination that emerges when
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  Speaker 3: a child feels understood and supported.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just a book.
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  Speaker 3: It's an invitation to parents, teachers, and readers to step
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  Speaker 3: into the shoes of a nurodivergent child and to experience
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  Speaker 3: the world through their eyes. It encourages empathy foster's understanding
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  Speaker 3: not only for the challenges these students face, but literally
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  Speaker 3: for every situation. The book was designed to challenge the
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  Speaker 3: stereotypes and misconceptions about nurodiversity, replacing them with a message
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  Speaker 3: of acceptance and empowerment.
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  Speaker 2: One of the key themes of.
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  Speaker 3: My book is that narrodivergence students do not need to
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  Speaker 3: be fixed and cured, that they need to be supported
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  Speaker 3: and encouraged to grow in a way that aligns with
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  Speaker 3: their unique brain wiring. In my own life, I found
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  Speaker 3: that when I'm given the space to be myself, and
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  Speaker 3: when I'm supported in my learning and expression, I achieve
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  Speaker 3: things I never thought were possible. I want the same
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  Speaker 3: thing for my students. I want the same thing for
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  Speaker 3: our children, a world where they are given the time
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  Speaker 3: and tools to thrive without being made to feel that
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  Speaker 3: there is something inherently.
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  Speaker 2: Wrong with them. And through my book, I hope to
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  Speaker 2: give parents, educators, and caregivers the insight and tools that
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  Speaker 2: they need to help in rite divergent children feel valued
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  Speaker 2: and understood, to.
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  Speaker 1: Let them know that there's really nothing wrong with them.
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  Speaker 1: They just have a different way of thinking, a different
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  Speaker 1: way of learning, and a different way of communicating.
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  Speaker 4: It's not wrong, it's just different.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So if you want to find out more about Rebecca
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  Speaker 1: and her mission, just check out the comments there'll be
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  Speaker 1: all the different ways you could get in touch with
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  Speaker 1: her and how to find her book, and you could
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  Speaker 1: also get on the newsletter, which is the Confidence Club
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  Speaker 1: that's now for the whole family, because I recognize that
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  Speaker 1: sometimes parents need more confidence to step outside of the
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  Speaker 1: box and think differently than their peers. So in the
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  Speaker 1: Confidence Club newsletter or I don't know, maybe I.
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  Speaker 4: Should have a contest on what to name it.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I haven't figured out what to name it yet, the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Sparkle Feathers Newsletter. But it's a newsletter that's going to
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  Speaker 1: offer activities for the kids, great book reviews like we
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  Speaker 1: just did, with information for parents about different topics that
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  Speaker 1: parents are going through. It's going to have lots of
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  Speaker 1: cool information, lots of free programs to get into, lots
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  Speaker 1: of free stuff, lots of fun, just really fun. Because
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  Speaker 1: if you join the newsletter today, you'll get your first
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: activity which you and your child will design their own superhero.
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  Speaker 1: Get those creative juices flowing. Find out what's important to
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  Speaker 1: your kid. Do they want to fly?
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Would they rather be invisible? Why?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Why would they want to be invisible? Do they want
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  Speaker 1: a kpe? Or how do they want to dress? Have
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  Speaker 1: you ever done an activity like that with your kids.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have. I've done tons of different activities.
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  Speaker 3: That have embrace their needs. You know, we do a
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  Speaker 3: lot of math activities where they get to express themselves,
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  Speaker 3: and a lot of reading activities where we had to
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  Speaker 3: jump into the character shoes.
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  Speaker 2: And kind of become the character.
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  Speaker 3: We've even done you know, I bring candy and we've
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  Speaker 3: laid out candy to do different place values and numbers.
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  Speaker 3: And we've done tons of stuff with bowling pins, even
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  Speaker 3: where we've hit bowling pins to determine our hundreds, tens
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  Speaker 3: and ones place values and done subtraction that way. I've
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  Speaker 3: never given any of my kids, except for their general
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  Speaker 3: when they're in their general egg classroom when they're required
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  Speaker 3: to do it.
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  Speaker 2: None of my kids have ever seen a worksheet inside
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  Speaker 2: of my classroom.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a pull out support teacher and I've never assigned
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  Speaker 3: a worksheet in my time teaching.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing because back when I was in school,
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  Speaker 1: that's all we got was worksheets. Here sit in tradasca
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  Speaker 1: do that. So is there any message you want to
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  Speaker 1: tell parents?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: I always tell people I see humans like a Rubics cube.
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  Speaker 3: Don't let people pull your stickers off. I have seen
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  Speaker 3: the difference.
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  Speaker 2: It makes.
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  Speaker 3: When we rush a child and we try to discover
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  Speaker 3: them quickly, and we don't allow them to be themselves,
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  Speaker 3: and we don't allow them to find their own identity.
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  Speaker 3: You know, if we rip the stickers off of a
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  Speaker 3: Rubics cube and place those stickers where they're supposed to
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  Speaker 3: be so the colors all line up, we haven't really
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  Speaker 3: solved the Rubics cube. We've cheated our way to it.
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  Speaker 3: And the same thing can go for human beings.
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  Speaker 2: We cheat ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: Through and we don't take the time to figure ourselves out,
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  Speaker 3: we won't succeed. And one of the greatest joys you
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  Speaker 3: should have as a teacher, a parent, as anyone working
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  Speaker 3: with children, is watching them grow into confidence. Confident little
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  Speaker 3: people develop a sense of pride in their abilities and
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  Speaker 3: achieve things that they once thought we're out of reach.
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  Speaker 2: And if we rush them to do that, then they
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  Speaker 2: won't do it.
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  Speaker 4: Well, that is so too.
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  Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid and like I,
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  Speaker 1: like I told you, I'm the big vision person, the create,
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  Speaker 1: creative person, and math just was not for me, and
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  Speaker 1: they try to fit me in that mold that I
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  Speaker 1: have to do math because it was just sitting there,
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  Speaker 1: copping off the board, copping off the board, writing it
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  Speaker 1: one hundred times, coping off the board, and then when
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  Speaker 1: there was something that I could apply it to. When
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  Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to be an electronics and I
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  Speaker 1: had to learn calculus to be able to do electronics
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  Speaker 1: to get my degree in electronics. When I applied the
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  Speaker 1: math to something that interest me, all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 1: the world of math became interesting. And that's exactly what
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  Speaker 1: Rebecca does. Instead of trying to make the kids fit
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  Speaker 1: into the mold of a math student, she makes it
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  Speaker 1: interesting for them to learn to the point where they're
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  Speaker 1: learning without even realizing it.
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  Speaker 4: They're just playing.
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  Speaker 1: To tell us besides math, do you play any other
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  Speaker 1: games with them?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we do. We do reading activities where we've you know, uh,
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  Speaker 3: jumped into the characters and tried to feel the character's
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  Speaker 3: emotions and tried to act out the characters and things
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  Speaker 3: like that. I mostly do math because I'm a pull
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  Speaker 3: out teacher, so my.
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  Speaker 2: My focus is mostly math a lot of the time.
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  Speaker 3: For their genetic class, they're into for social studies and
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  Speaker 3: science there with their genet settings.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, I just love that it's becoming a whole
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  Speaker 1: new way of nurturing and growing children, which is what
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  Speaker 1: we're here to figure out how to do better. Well,
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. I really
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  Speaker 1: appreciate it. And I know I already asked you do
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  Speaker 1: you have any last words? But we've brought up so
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  Speaker 1: much stuff that since then, is there anything else you'd
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  Speaker 1: like to add?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just wrap it up with I believe that
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  Speaker 3: through education, empathy, inclusion, that we can create a world.
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  Speaker 2: Where nurient individuals are not.
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  Speaker 3: Just accepted, but celebrated for their unique contributions they make.
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  Speaker 3: And I hope that my book can be a tool
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  Speaker 3: and effort in helping others to understand, acceptance support their
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  Speaker 3: narrative virgent individuals in their lives. And if you're a parent,
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  Speaker 3: teach your advocate. I encourage you to explore the world
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  Speaker 3: of neurodiversity with an open heart and mind. My book
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  Speaker 3: is a starting point, but the real word comes at
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  Speaker 3: how we continue to foster understanding and acceptance every day
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  Speaker 3: in our schools and our communities. When we all come
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  Speaker 3: together to support our nurative virgent individuals, we create a
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  Speaker 3: better and more inclusive world for all.
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  Speaker 4: And just think.
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  Speaker 1: Of the future of our children when they're celebrating each
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  Speaker 1: other and come together to work together. Rather than this
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  Speaker 1: us versus them, the normal versus the divergent. Well, we
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  Speaker 1: don't need these labels. They're just children. And with that,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say thank you for listening to parents' talk.
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  Speaker 4: We'll see you later.