Latest / APD Pod Squad / Season 2, Episode 17; Interim Chief Jackie Stepp with Buncombe County District Attorney Todd Williams, Capt. Jonathan Brown, and Sgt. Noland Brown

Transcript

Season 2, Episode 17; Interim Chief Jackie Stepp with Buncombe County District Attorney Todd Williams, Capt. Jonathan Brown, and Sgt. Noland Brown · APD Pod Squad

0:00
SPEAKER_01: This is the APD Pod Squad.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm Rick Royce.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Coming up in this episode, Interim Chief Jackie Steph and Bunkham County District Attorney Todd Williams sit down for an important and timely discussion about technology and its vital role with the Asheville Police Department and the DA's office.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: We'll get to know Western North Carolina native Sergeant Noland Brown, who just passed the 15-year mark with the APD.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Halfway there, so we'll look back and forward.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: And from the Community Engagement Division, Captain Jonathan Brown will lay out the new MOU with HACKA, where it came from and what it means.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: We'll even explain the acronyms and everything.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: It's all coming up on Season 2, Episode 17 of the APD Pod Squad.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm joined now by Interim Chief Jackie Stepp and from the Buncombe County District Attorney's Office, Todd Williams.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: First time, Todd, thanks for joining me.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully not the last time, as your tenure is winding down.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: You didn't run for re-election, wrapping up a career that spans a little over ten years.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm working on 12, uh, but I've still got six or seven more months.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: So depending upon how this goes today, I'd be happy to come back.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, six or seven months.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Not it's not happened over the next couple weeks.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Plenty of things to be done.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: And we're not kicking you out yet.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: So today I wanted to talk about technology, something that affects both of you.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the Asheville Police Department and the Buncombe County District Attorney's Office when it comes to trials and convictions.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the Asheville Police Department, because this has been a hot topic lately.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: A grant that was applied for, presented to City Council for approval.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Instead of voting on it that night at council, they decided to postpone that vote after they heard from a lot of citizens that said they didn't know enough about it.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're going to discuss here today.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: In essence, it's technology that's been in use for years.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: So hopefully, Chief Step, you can clear some things up, uh, clarify some others, and debunk some misinformation.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Great.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So uh the grant that we applied for and are hopefully uh going to receive funding for is not necessarily meant to provide additional cameras owned by the police department out in the community.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: That's number one a misconception that's out there.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: What the funding will be spent on is really primarily three things.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: A software platform called Fuchsiaus, which really integrates everything that already exists into one pane of glass.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: That's the most simple way I can explain it.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: It takes the body worn cameras, the drone footage, the private business cameras, you know, residential cameras if they decide to opt into the program.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: And it integrates it in a way that the public safety analysts aren't logging in here, logging in there, keeping this screen up, pulling this screen down, and really enables us to do real-time intelligence.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: So that's what the software is.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: The software fuchsia does not store anything.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: That's another misconception.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Each camera, you know, whether it's a flock or vercotta or uh axon has its own storage retention.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: And then North Carolina law also provides additional retention.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: But we've had access to fuchsia since 2022.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, the city of Asheville has been paying in partnership with Buncombe County to utilize their Fuchsis platform since 2022.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: We've been paying$30,000 a year to have access to that system.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: So this is not a new system to the City of Asheville and our community in any way.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: The other piece of that funding would be spent for what we call a video wall, and that's where you have, you know, TVs literally on a wall to be able to view the different footages as a crime occurs in real time and bring everything to be able to ensure a more coordinated response by the officers.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: And then any additional that would be left, which is is very little because those two things take up the vast majority of that funding, is just simple workstations for the current public safety analyst to work.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Let's pivot to the district attorney's office.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: How does the technology and what some of these devices produce, some of this camera footage, how do they help you in the job that you do?
4:01
SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely critical since I've been doing this, both as the elected DA and then as a defense attorney prior.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: It's been called the CSI effect.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: CSI was a show that was on, was it on the night in the 90s or like four different versions of them now.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: It's been so successful.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: So people watch the show, you know, or they watch the true crime shows and they see how evidence unfolds in the courtroom and how that transparency, you know, really leads to verdicts, convictions, accountability in case after case after case.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: When they come to court in our courthouse, there are at times, I'm being careful, there an unreasonable expectation that absolute transparency is going to be the expectation in each and every case.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: We do not.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: We we never will have cameras to cover, you know, you know, 360 degrees of our community up and down, North Asheville, West Buncombe.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, we can't achieve that.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes all we have is is eyewitness testimony.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: And when we're left with eyewitness testimony, fingerprints, the old school type stuff, increasingly jurors are skeptical of what they're hearing, especially with and I maybe I won't be invited back to the podcast, but especially when we we only have officer testimony, when we only have a police officer that was the eyewitness.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: So when we can bring additional evidence like camera footage, um DNA evidence is extremely critical.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Juries are more likely able to reach a verdict.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: And that's become increasingly their expectation in these cases.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell These two things almost seem to go counter.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: They expect this video, but they don't want us to have the video.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: It's very confusing.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Let me play devil's advocate.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Here's what some of the people in the community are saying, those that are not in favor of it.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't want you spying on me in my backyard.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: That's something that they're saying.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: You're using AI, and you're gonna say that I did something I didn't do.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: So in terms of AI, Ephucius does not use facial recognition.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the big the the big thing out there is the facial recognition.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: And it does not use facial recognition.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: The police department has no intention to even consider that if it were on the table, uh we're we are not moving toward uh facial recognition.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing in terms of of people spying uh on me in my backyard, number one, you know, we've got eleven people in this technology and intelligence division.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Seven out of the eleven are uh civilian professional staff members.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Only two right now are assigned to kind of help research with the current camera access that we have that has to go backwards because it's not real time yet.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: So we don't have the resources to sit around and and spy on people.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: We have to have the criminal activity, a call for service.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's the same thing with our drone technology.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: We don't launch the drone unless we have a crime to go to.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's just reality.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: There are so many checks and balances, internal audits, accountability measures put in place that frankly you just you can't do it, number one, but then we we wouldn't have the resources to do it uh, you know, if we could.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Interim Chief Jackie Stepp and District Attorney Todd Williams.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Todd, you want to chime in?
6:59
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times when we think about this technology or evidence, we're thinking about, you know, getting convictions, getting accountability.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's a large part of the job.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: However, and you know, we've talked about this in the past, Chief.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: When we have like a live event unfold, kind of like what happened last summer at the Imperial Bar downtown, which was a shooting as a bar, I guess it was late night.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: You had i is it appropriate to call that camera a flock camera over there by the the public bathroom that was installed by the city?
7:28
SPEAKER_00: That's not a flock, but it's not a flock.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: There's a camera.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: There's a camera there.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: There's a camera there.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: So we were able to, at a very granular level, break it down frame by frame, determine who was the aggressor, who was using appropriate and statutory lawful defensive use of force.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times when you have like a live event like that, people really don't know what happened.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Bullets are flying.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: They're running running for cover.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: They might be eyewitnesses, they think they saw things, they might give statements to law enforcement.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: But the beauty of these cameras is that we can go in and no, it hasn't been corrupted by AI or any it's camera footage that gives us the transparency to ascertain what happened, break it down.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, in that case, we were able to look at the evidence and determine that charges wouldn't be appropriate against one of the shooters, that he was using defensive force appropriately under the under North Carolina law.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe I'm thinking that some of the people that are not in favor of all the cameras or any of our technology that we use, perhaps they don't know the success stories and what we're doing with it for the positive.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I know just this past week a bicycle ring, bicycle theft ring, was broken up with the help of technology.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: I know that we're recovering stolen vehicles on the regular with this technology.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Can you give an example, Todd, of how the technology has helped you?
8:41
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times determining an individual's intent is very difficult in court.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: The defendant has a right to testify and say, well, it was self-defense, right?
8:50
SPEAKER_02: With the technology, with the camera.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, if the defendant is saying it's self-defense, but he's you can see on various views that he's, say, stalking someone, you know, he's in pursuit of someone, or he's advancing aggressively.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, a jury can look at that and compare, you know, the perspective given by the camera with the contentions of the defendant in court and weigh that.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: So that gives the transparency to the jury to that's the function of the jury.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Weigh the credibility of the witnesses.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Is that a self-interested statement or is that an accurate statement?
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Right?
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Jurors, I think, like I said, they expect that we're gonna have this.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: They already do.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, we had a case where if you don't mind me sharing the uh the example of uh somebody was had an accident on ATV.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: He was the only person on on scene.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Again, I gotta respect the the work of the jury.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: They came back not guilty on this.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: His beer was in the road, his ATV was in the road, and he was in the road.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: EMS came, picked him up, and it turned out that he had over a.08.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: But the juror feedback that I got from a juror after the not guilty determination was law enforcement should have swabbed the throttle to determine that he was the driver of the of the ATV.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: And you know, reasonable doubt is reasonable doubt based on reason and common sense.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's not transparency to the extent of uh almost an omniscient viewpoint.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: But increasingly uh jurors really do expect that there's gonna be some kind of DNA or there's gonna be, you know, a camera present.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus Well, uh Rick, I think you nailed it really in terms of success stories.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to take a second to say I would love to share video footage.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: There are other agencies outside of the state of North Carolina that do that.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: They showcase and highlight success stories, whether it's strong footage or or LPO or any type of uh technology, but unfortunately, we are bound by North Carolina law, and those cameras are treated just like our body worn camera.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: We cannot, by law, just release those.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: So it looks like we're not being transparent because we just can't share, but it's not because we don't want to share.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Believe me, I want to share how much technology helps us.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Every day I walk into technology, I've got a business owner this morning that sent me a video of somebody that started a fire outside of her business downtown this morning.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, every day, uh and what I think people don't realize is they're under surveillance.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Not by the police, but there are cameras everywhere.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: And frankly, if you want to go to a non-surveillance state, you've got to go back to 1900.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: You're under surveillance.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: And again, not by police, but there are cameras out there everywhere.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: And the way we are using the cameras, I think and I hope that we have demonstrated as we've started implementing this technology that we are transparent.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: We've got LPR, both with our axon and our flock LPRs that are in the field.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: We've got transparency pages built so the public can see.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: We showcase the technology and really bring a behind-the-scenes look with our Citizens Police Academy twice a year.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh we invite people in, I say it all the time, come see it, touch it, feel it, see how we use it, ask questions, because I do think there's just such a misunderstanding.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and even as we move forward with Fuchsis and we talk about private businesses and homeowners being able to register and share their footage, there's a misunderstanding about what that looks like.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: And and there's there's two different avenues.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: You can register, which tells us, hey, there's a camera at my house.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: If you need it, you can ask for it and I'll give it to you.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And then there's integration.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: But even with integration, which that means we could view your camera live, but you as the private business or residents still have to dictate what you want to allow.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: If you don't want to uh allow us just carte blanc access, okay, great.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: You can limit our accessibility if you want it only after your business hours from 5 p.m.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: to 10 p.m.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: or if you want it overnight.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: There's so many limitations and guards put in place that we just can't, you know, log in.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So I wish we could share success stories more.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: We're just bound by law that we can't.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, if I can just jump in on it.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: One of our most critical focus focuses, I think, both police and and district attorney's office is we recognize that there are there are people that are distrustful of the system.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: And then there are marginalized uh communities that increasingly, well, it's been the historical fact, you know, just suffer more from crime and violence in our community.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: They haven't been flock cameras, they haven't been drones, but you know, in housing authority, we have surveillance cameras that have been absolutely dispositive of many tragic, you know, losses of life, and have been extremely useful because in those cases particularly, a problem is nobody will unfortunately, nobody will cooperate.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: And you know Or sometimes the case just falls apart, people get scared.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: People do cooperate, talk to the police, and then won't come to court.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: I just want to make mention of that.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And then in in regard to what you were just saying, Chief, what I want to say, and I don't necessarily want to be uh invited back to the pod squad unless it unl unless it uh you all appreciate this comment.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: APD is an agency that this community should be very proud of.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Your attention to you know professionalism and and standards and policy from our end uh of the spectrum is commendable.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: And that has been the case uh for the last several years.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, the command staff over here is extremely professional, competent, all the things.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And in terms of like who you can share this with, you do share it with the district attorney's office in the ambit of, you know, we're advising you on charges, we're advising you on the investigation, or there are charges, and then the statute gives you authority to share it with the district attorney's office to disclose to the defendant to ensure due process.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: So I just want to say from the district attorney's end, come on over and take a look at this, Mr.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: D.A.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Let's figure out what there's no like you know, smoke room, or there's no like kind of like back room.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Like we're not playing games here.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Your investigators have always used this uh, in my view, evidence you know, appropriately.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: And and we're we're thankful for the professionalism of your agency.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Let's wrap it up by just saying where are we now in the process for the grant?
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Where is it going from here?
15:09
SPEAKER_01: We know City Council pushed pause on the approval of this.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So what's the next step?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Great question.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: So right now we're kind of on pause trying to make sure that each council person has really the understanding and education that they need to make an appropriate vote.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to just provide them details of the funding, uh what its intent is, how long we've had access to the system, kind of the same things we've talked about here today.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Tuesday, uh I will present at a policy finance meeting, and then from there it will be determined if it goes back to council in May.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: But you know, really the the one thing I I would like to end on is that people's concern of surveillance, whether you're on I don't want to be surveilled or bring me all the technology you have, it's real.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: And those concerns are valid, and everybody on either end of the spectrum deserves to be heard.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: So I won I want to make that statement that we we don't take this lightly.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, when when we first introduced body worn cameras, gosh, it's been probably ten years ago now.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you officers had the same concern about privacy.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: So that concern is real.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh we're just launching on social media a transparency campaign to try to talk about each one of these technologies.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to be as transparent as I possibly can to make people feel comfortable but also confident that the police are gonna use these resources and tools responsibly.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Chief Step, District Attorney Todd Williams, you're welcome back anytime.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much both of you for joining us today.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks, Rick.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Getting to know Sergeant Noland Brown, thanks for sitting down with me.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Of course, thanks for having me.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: It took a minute for us to to get this date because we had an incident this past week which just shows how dangerous policing is.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh we had an officer involved shooting, and thankfully, all of our people are good.
16:58
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: We had one officer that was injured with minor injuries, thankfully, due to broken glass, but it could have been a lot worse.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: And I know you were on scene for that.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's the kind of thing that probably makes you y think about your job more so than maybe other days.
17:12
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
17:13
SPEAKER_04: Uh when things like that happen, it makes you uh appreciate uh the time we have with our families and that we get to go home safe when we do.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell, Because you're no longer out there like on the streets patrolling, right.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh like you would have been at one point when you started your career, currently with professional standards, so more office than streets now.
17:30
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell Right.
17:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh I investigate any uh officer misconduct uh that gets reported by citizens or internally uh and uh when we have a s officer involved serious incident, I would respond to that scene similar to what we had a couple nights ago.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell So how deep does the Asheville Police Department and yourself get involved in something like the incident this week?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: I know the investigation is handled per protocol by the SBI.
17:56
SPEAKER_04: Right.
17:56
SPEAKER_04: We we run uh our own investigation at the same time that they are doing their criminal investigation because any time an officer uses deadly force, that is a criminal act that needs to be investigated, just as anyone else who would use a deadly force.
18:10
SPEAKER_04: So they do the criminal investigation into that, we do an administrative investigation into our internal policies.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: So how long have you been in this department professional standards?
18:20
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell I've been working in uh professional standards for a little over three years, I believe.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell So that's a stint.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: It seems like most people do not stay in that department that long.
18:30
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell Right.
18:31
SPEAKER_04: Uh typically I would think most people have have gone on to something else uh at this point, but for whatever reason, I've I've stayed in there for this long and and I I'm still enjoying it.
18:41
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm not looking to get out of it or anything like that.
18:43
SPEAKER_04: So um I'm I'm I'm liking my time there so far.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: We spoke with Lieutenant Russ Crisp just in the past episode, and there's there's different stressors on your position, your department, than there would be on somebody else.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Because do you get the impression sometimes that people see you coming and they're a little bit leery, you know, because of what you do?
19:01
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell Definitely.
19:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, I've always been a reserved person.
19:05
SPEAKER_04: Uh there aren't a lot of people that I I know that closely here at the department.
19:11
SPEAKER_04: Um so I think that it that's been okay for me.
19:15
SPEAKER_04: You know, I I've not really felt that much of a difference, that much of a change, because I've never really been much of a conversationalist with people.
19:23
SPEAKER_04: I I don't hang out with a lot of people away from work.
19:25
SPEAKER_04: So that's not been a huge change for me.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Well, we're gonna pop the cork on that here today by getting deep into the uh the life and times of Sergeant Nolan DeBrown.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: We'll start at the beginning, uh as you were a a baby boy.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Where were you born?
19:39
SPEAKER_04: Uh I was born not too far from here in Silva uh at at the hospital there, and uh uh my family's from Bryson City um in the Great Smoky Mountains.
19:49
SPEAKER_04: So I lived there uh for the first part of my life uh when my parents separated.
19:55
SPEAKER_04: I moved to Florida, South Florida, outside of Miami, uh before moving back up here um in elementary school.
20:03
SPEAKER_04: So a few years down in Florida.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So your formative years though, Bryson City still there?
20:07
SPEAKER_01: So the road to nowhere.
20:08
SPEAKER_04: Right.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Have you taken it?
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Have you walked out there?
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Have you driven out there?
20:11
SPEAKER_04: Many times.
20:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:12
SPEAKER_04: I've taken my kids up there.
20:13
SPEAKER_04: My wife and my kids have been up there with me, and and it's something we we do every few years, go up there and check it out and do do the hiking trails up there.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a a really interesting story and to look into our past in Western North Carolina and how the area was formed based on what happened there.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: There's there's a town that is under that water, and there was a road that got started and never finished.
20:35
SPEAKER_04: Right.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: But didn't something happen just a few years ago where there was some funding where they were gonna complete that road so families could get to the cemeteries?
20:42
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell, yeah, there was always a back and forth battle whether they were going to finish completing the road there uh or if there was gonna be a payout for not completing the road.
20:51
SPEAKER_04: Uh there was a lot of issues around environmentalists not wanting the road to be completed.
20:56
SPEAKER_04: So I think the final settle was that the road was not gonna be completed.
21:01
SPEAKER_04: Um, that project was not gonna move forward.
21:04
SPEAKER_04: And I'm not sure what kind of settlement was reached monetarily or anything like that.
21:08
SPEAKER_04: But definitely there are some cemeteries, things like that that are cut off that families uh want to get to and can't uh unless they have a boat or something to access that area.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one more thing for the tourists to check out when they go out there.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Because it's a great story to tell.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: They hear the road to nowhere and they want to see where it leads.
21:25
SPEAKER_04: It's intriguing and people want to check it out.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great little area.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh my wife and I, we like to do little day trips once in a while where we stay in overnight somewhere and we'll pick a small town in western North Carolina, of which there are many.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: And so we've chosen Bryson City several times.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: I was friends with the owner of Natahala Brewing for years.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh Joe Rowland is his name, and he sold his portion and he ended up moving away at some point.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: But we would go there uh and we would hang out with him and uh and hang out in town.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: There's a little uh I don't want to call it rundown, because that's kind of an insult.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: There's a little hotel there right at the before you get into The main drag into downtown right there in the corner.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of L shaped.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm talking about?
22:05
SPEAKER_01: There's a I I think the check-in is like a house right in front of it.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: It was clean, it was cheap.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: And we would sometimes go either in the winter or in the non-tourist season, pay next to nothing when almost nobody is in town and just enjoy it not busy.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's just a great time to get out there.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Although you want to go in the fall or summer anytime.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Bryson City is just beautiful out there.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: There's the uh what's the little waterfalls and the hike in the waterfalls that are right there, too.
22:31
SPEAKER_04: Deep Creek.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Deep Creek.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: That's a great hike.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: It's like a three, four-mile hike, do the loop or whatever it is like that.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: And you've got several waterfalls.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: So that's very nice.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: There's all kinds of stuff out there that you can see.
22:41
SPEAKER_04: I trained in uh in Deep Creek.
22:43
SPEAKER_04: I ran cross country in high school.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: And that's every day after school, my team would go over there.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: That was our training grounds for the season.
22:50
SPEAKER_04: We'd go out to Deep Creek.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful out there.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Boy, that'd be a tough run.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Holy cow.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: You can get, yeah, really tough.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're just a glutton for punishment running cross country in the mountains.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll do a little trail running here, like I'll go out to Bent Creek.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: But when I lived in the flatlands, like down in the low country, I was a whole lot faster.
23:08
SPEAKER_04: All right.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: I suppose the natural beauty, at least, if you're running out there, would at least distract you.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: I had an aunt and uncle that uh owned a cabin not far from the Natahala Outdoor Center.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: It was just take a left at the power station and just keep going all the way up the hill till you're near the top, and it was just like in the middle of nowhere, but just beautiful and peaceful.
23:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, my family has uh some property out there on the lake as well, and uh we have a little cabin.
23:35
SPEAKER_04: Um it's not much to look at, but the property itself is great and great views of the lake and beautiful area.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: I had a friend with a houseboat on on Netahala, and I guess they they cut that off, but you can't have any more on there.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: But I guess the ones that had it were grandfathered.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: And we've stayed with them, and it's out there in maybe twenty feet of water or whatever that's the depth.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: You can almost see to the bottom that lake is so clear.
23:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:56
SPEAKER_04: I mean, yeah, there are areas uh you can still see remnants of the town uh that was flooded.
24:03
SPEAKER_04: And you can see um, I think there are some areas where you can see like roads and bridges and things like under the water because you can you can see that far under the water is so clean.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't normally eat like catfish out of another type of a lake because they're a bottom feeder.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But I caught some catfish that were huge out of that lake, and I'm telling you, I ate those things, and they were some of the most delicious fish I've ever eaten in my life.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
24:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: But the movie, Oh Brother, were out there, that was kind of in part with the Tennessee Valley Authority flooding of that area.
24:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, very similar story to what happened there, yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_04: Which is pretty cool.
24:37
SPEAKER_04: It led up to the eventual, you know, flooding at the end of the movie, yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you moved away from that area and you said high school type time or after high school?
24:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so my wife and I both attended Western Carolina University.
24:48
SPEAKER_04: Okay, Catamounts, go catamounts.
24:49
SPEAKER_04: That's where we met.
24:50
SPEAKER_04: And uh when we graduated in 2007, we moved over to the Ashville area.
24:56
SPEAKER_04: We lived in uh the Arden area for a little while and eventually settled in Hendersonville, is where we live now.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know, Chief Step is also a catamount.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: So you know, if you're looking for a promotion or something like that, you're bucket for that.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Just kind of you know, use that maybe.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, catamount alumni status.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Is what it is.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so 2007, did you come back here to join the Asheville Police Department or a police department, or what's the process there?
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Where did that come in?
25:20
SPEAKER_04: No, uh initially, uh so in high school and through college, I worked uh in bed and breakfast work, uh, hospitality, brooking front desk, working in dining rooms, and that's what I thought my career trajectory was going to be uh moving in that area.
25:36
SPEAKER_04: And I guess it got to the point where I was lacking something.
25:40
SPEAKER_04: I didn't feel fulfilled in my career.
25:43
SPEAKER_04: So after a few years, I decided to make a change and saw that the Asheville Police Department was uh hiring, doing their own academy.
25:52
SPEAKER_04: It looked appealing.
25:53
SPEAKER_04: Uh had some family history in law enforcement and uh was something that I was always intrigued in because of things that happened when I was a kid and seeing law enforcement and respecting law enforcement and and decided that was something that I wanted to try.
26:08
SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the hospitality industry is a hard one, so is the policing business sometimes.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: They can both wear on you.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: In way different ways, though.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: I spent a little time in hospitality myself running a brewery down in Charleston, and I know that what comes with that is, you know, kind of like this in a way, you're on the clock 24-7.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: There's always issues.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: So there are those similarities, and you're dealing with the public.
26:27
SPEAKER_04: Right.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: So have you seen anything from that previous life translate into this at all?
26:32
SPEAKER_04: I think that uh having patience with people has been the biggest thing because whether you're in a hotel or you're out on the street talking to somebody about their issue, you have to have patience with people.
26:44
SPEAKER_04: You have to be able to listen to them, show some compassion, and be able to help them through their problems.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I would say the difference would be in uh in our case here, the customer isn't always right.
26:54
SPEAKER_04: Right.
26:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'd agree with that.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And not always honest.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Either in that respect.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: So what year did you uh go through the academy?
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
27:03
SPEAKER_04: 2010 is when I started.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Well that would explain the uh the timing, because I saw that you uh recently celebrated, or either that or it's coming up like any day now, your 15-year sweariversary.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: So your 15-year anniversary of being sworn in to the APD.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Is that something you knew before I told you?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Or is that something you kind of knew was coming up?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
27:24
SPEAKER_04: It was something I was aware of, but didn't really, I guess, hit home until you contacted me because 15 years is a long time.
27:32
SPEAKER_04: And uh it doesn't feel like I've been here that long.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell It's also kind of the you know give or take halfway mark.
27:37
SPEAKER_04: Right.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: It makes you pause just a little bit.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: It does.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And you say to yourself, okay, I've fifteen years I've been here, I've got fifteen or less to go.
27:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: It gets the mind thinking whether you like it or not.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like what have I done and where am I going?
27:51
SPEAKER_04: Right.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: So with the Asheville Police Department, like everybody else, you start with patrol.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: So how long were you on patrol?
27:57
SPEAKER_04: My first four years, I'll work patrol Baker District, uh both nights and days, and then move to the uh public housing unit after that.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell And that's something that's currently experiencing a rebirth of sorts after being disbanded for several years because of staffing, among other issues, with the new MOU with the housing authority.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And we'll be talking with uh Captain Jonathan Brown, no relation, about what that means for those communities.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's mostly because they wanted that.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: They wanted us there.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Was that the impression that you got when you were part of that they wanted officers there?
28:29
SPEAKER_01: I think some people get the impression that we're not wanted within the housing developments, but I think that's incorrect.
28:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, during my time on public housing, we had great relationships with the people that ran the different complexes, uh, kept in constant contact with them, and they always very much wanted us to be in there.
28:46
SPEAKER_04: And that was the same with the people that lived in those areas.
28:48
SPEAKER_04: Most of the problems that we see in public housing do not come from people that live in public housing.
28:53
SPEAKER_04: They come from people that want to come in and see an opportunity to do something in an area that that they don't really even belong in, don't live in.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: They're taking advantage of the residents.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Be it to sell drugs or something else.
29:07
SPEAKER_04: Right.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: And so the people that live there, vast majority of which are just law-abiding people trying to live their life.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And do it safely.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And so after you were with the housing authority, then what was your next step?
29:18
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
29:19
SPEAKER_04: So I did two years uh with the housing team and then I uh was promoted to sergeant um in 2016.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell So back to patrol, patrol sergeant?
29:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I was a patrol sergeant uh downtown uh and then we closed our downtown office a couple years into my stint there, and I moved out to uh West Asheville.
29:39
SPEAKER_04: Um was a patrol officer there for a few years.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Okay.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: I was living there probably while you were a patrol officer.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh my wife's house and where I lived for a while was uh at Vermont Avenue, Sixth Vermont Avenue.
29:48
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh the the house there right there on the corner of Haywood and Vermont.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Long before Universal Joint was Universal Joint.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: You might remember it was a garage.
29:57
SPEAKER_04: Right.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: It was a mechanic.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: And uh we used to sit there on the front porch of Sixth Vermont Avenue across from what was then a bank, which now is no longer a bank, shows you how much things change.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: And I looked at that building, which is Universal Joint now, which people don't know it's a burger place.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: It's and I'm like, that's a beautiful building.
30:13
SPEAKER_04: It is.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: I I said, at some point, somebody is gonna do something with that besides just be like a mechanic where there's just cars that are broken sitting out front.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: It's got this blue slate roof, you know, white building.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: It's old, it's and sure enough, they make some great burgers and it's a great place.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've been there.
30:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I have uh the the mechanic shop never really fit into that that neighborhood.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, it maybe it did 50, 60 years ago.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, but as it the neighborhood starts to change, it would just kind of stuck out like a sore thumb.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: It did, yeah.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, and so that was a that was a big thing for the community to get another location.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh my favorite burger there is the Hemingway.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you've had that potato.
30:49
SPEAKER_04: I don't think I've had that now.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Pimento cheese and some jalapenos and some uh onions.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Try it sometimes.
30:55
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
30:55
SPEAKER_04: It's absolutely delicious.
30:56
SPEAKER_04: I'll do that, yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely delicious.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: So we've talked about your 15 years with the Asheville Police Department, almost maybe 15 more to go.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: And you've probably not given hard thought to what comes next, but have you given any thought to what comes next, either within the APD or afterwards?
31:12
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell, I think after uh I retire, I can see myself uh getting into coaching baseball.
31:20
SPEAKER_04: It's something that I would probably enjoy doing.
31:23
SPEAKER_04: I I coach youth baseball now.
31:25
SPEAKER_04: I've got a kid that that plays baseball.
31:27
SPEAKER_04: Um I'm a huge baseball fan.
31:29
SPEAKER_04: I follow the Atlanta Braves.
31:31
SPEAKER_04: I actually started playing baseball again.
31:33
SPEAKER_04: I'm going to be playing this summer in a men's league.
31:35
SPEAKER_04: Oh, nice.
31:36
SPEAKER_04: So it's it's a big part of my life now, and it's something that I could see myself continuing to do when I retire.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: You obviously played when you were younger, d high school.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Did you play in college or no?
31:46
SPEAKER_04: I played through high school.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Just through high school?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was the same way.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: I didn't play in college at all, but I loved playing little league and high school and all of that.
31:53
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell I think it's something that'll you know stick with me for the rest of my life.
31:57
SPEAKER_04: It's it's something that I've always enjoyed.
31:59
SPEAKER_04: It's it's passed on to my kids and something we enjoy together now and always been a part of my life.
32:04
SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Do you go to games at McCormick Field?
32:06
SPEAKER_01: Well I can't say McCormick Field anymore, can I?
32:08
SPEAKER_04: No, yeah.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's Home Trust Park, I think it is.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'll ever get out of the habit.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I still call the building downtown the Civic Center.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean it's so it's tough once you know something is one thing.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And I worked there for I was the PA guy there for 17 years or whatever.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of tough for me to think of it as anything but so you've been there.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
32:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we try to go to at least one game a year, maybe a couple games a year.
32:28
SPEAKER_04: We always try to go.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: So you haven't been yet, though, right?
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Not to the not to the updated part.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: So just opened.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: I haven't I drive driven by it a bunch of times.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: No everyone that works there.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: I think it looks fantastic.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: It does.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: I think it'll be a a great thing for the fans that enjoy going to those games.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'll they usually suck me into doing a game or two in the in the press box public address.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I did one last year, I did one the year before, like the regular guy can't do it.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'll probably be up there at some point this year, and if not, I'll be in the stands to watch a game because I enjoy it too.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: There's something about just eating a hot dog on a sunny afternoon.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: It's just my favorite day.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: I like day games.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, Sundays.
33:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we try to go to a Braves game uh every year and usually a Sunday game uh during the daytime and maybe catch the the night before a Saturday night game and stay a couple days.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: So it's usually what we try to do when we go to Atlanta.
33:17
SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: So you got to talk with uh Lieutenant Loveland or with Craig.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Because you know they got those seats out there at the Braves Park.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: There are some special kind of seats where you get like the food and the beverage with them.
33:28
SPEAKER_04: Right.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: That's how you want to do it there.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: I'd be afraid I would just eat myself into a coma though, if the food was all just you know how it is when you when you're not paying for the food individually and you're just they just keep bringing it on.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: I'd probably eat a dozen hot dogs and a couple plates of nachos.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Nolan Brown joins me now, and I can't let you get out of the room without asking the question I ask everybody.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And I I gave you some advanced notice.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: One thing that most people don't know about you.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
33:53
SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of things that people don't know about me, but I think probably the one thing that maybe nobody knows about me here is that I'm somewhat of an artist.
34:02
SPEAKER_04: It's not something that translates into police work, so it's nothing that's ever really come out here.
34:08
SPEAKER_04: I like to take things that are seemingly uh not pleasing to the eye and make them beautiful.
34:16
SPEAKER_04: And an example of that I can show you on my phone.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, I'd love to see it.
34:20
SPEAKER_04: So when Helene hit our area, um, like many other people, we had many down trees in our in our neighborhood and on our property.
34:30
SPEAKER_04: And we had one tree that I'll show you that came down in our backyard, a big oak tree, uh left a big root ball behind.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Did it land on anything, your house?
34:41
SPEAKER_04: No, everything was okay.
34:42
SPEAKER_04: It did hit a uh playhouse, little tree house that that my kids had, but they hadn't really been using it for a couple years, so it wasn't a big deal.
34:49
SPEAKER_04: So that's the root ball that was left.
34:51
SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's that must have been a big tree.
34:53
SPEAKER_04: Really big, landed across the whole property.
34:56
SPEAKER_04: And was I was able to cut the tree off and get the root ball to stand up so where we had a big stump in our backyard.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:03
SPEAKER_04: We didn't like it.
35:04
SPEAKER_04: Uh we wanted it removed.
35:06
SPEAKER_04: We we looked at uh some quotes from some people to try and get it removed, and uh never really did it.
35:12
SPEAKER_04: And my wife was like, well, what about this?
35:15
SPEAKER_04: And she gave me an inspiration to turn it into this little gnome house.
35:22
SPEAKER_04: Oh my, look at that.
35:24
SPEAKER_04: So I I built the roof for it, built the little front door.
35:27
SPEAKER_04: I still need to put some windows on it, not completely done.
35:30
SPEAKER_04: The little staircase leading up to it.
35:32
SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like the Keebler elves live there.
35:33
SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
35:34
SPEAKER_04: Right.
35:34
SPEAKER_04: So now it's something that we can look out the back window and not have to stare at this ugly stump, but now we see something pretty out there.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell That's awesome.
35:42
SPEAKER_04: Now so did you hollow any of that out, or is it just kind of looked like it's Yeah, it's not hollowed out, so the a gnome can't actually live in it, but uh it it it's the appearance that there is.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Well, an ambitious one could if he wants to you know get in there.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: So that is fantastic.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Now, you're gonna have some issues maybe with the uh since it's a dead tree, it might start to rot.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Have you thought about that?
36:03
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell Not yet.
36:04
SPEAKER_04: No, we'll cross that bridge when it gets there, but uh at this point it's holding up so far.
36:09
SPEAKER_04: It's been a couple years and and and it's not rotting yet.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: So I'll describe this to some of the people that obviously can't see this, but uh so you can imagine uh it looks like a that thing's gotta be what?
36:18
SPEAKER_01: What's the circumference of that thing?
36:20
SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be like six feet around.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Probably six or eight feet around.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Big tree.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Big right.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: So it I would say it's what does it stand?
36:27
SPEAKER_04: About four feet of the Yeah, it it was about maybe four or five feet high, and I cut it down to maybe about three feet high.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so imagine that.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: So this big circumference is of this tree, it's a big oak tree, and it's about three feet tall.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: It's got a it's got a roof on top, like you would imagine, like an A-frame type roof.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: It's got like a door in front where the gnomes would open it.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: I see you got a couple of gnomes in front there too, just to kind of bring them on in.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And then you got some steps that you've got because it's on a little bit of a hill.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: So you put some rocks for steps.
36:56
SPEAKER_04: Yep, just in case, you know, they don't want to get their feet muddy.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, as far as the world of art, different, but did you know that Deputy Chief Sean Artemis is a pencil artist?
37:06
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: So there may be more artists here at the APD than he showed me some of his stuff, too.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: It's really good.
37:13
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so you could talk art with DC Artem at some point.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: So what else have you created?
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh you manufacture things by scratch, or just you look for things that need to be kind of just given a second life?
37:26
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell Yeah, it's usually my wife uh gives me some kind of inspiration, like, hey, I want a decorative piece for the wall.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a nice way of selling honeydew list.
37:36
SPEAKER_04: Right.
37:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:37
SPEAKER_04: And it's it's a project that I don't mind doing because it's something that I enjoy the process of.
37:42
SPEAKER_04: Um so I I've created things um that are now pieces that hang on our our wall at our home or you know over our fireplace, things like that.
37:51
SPEAKER_04: So um just little art pieces here and there um that she's asked me to do.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell, you're working on one now?
37:57
SPEAKER_04: Uh no.
37:58
SPEAKER_04: I just finished this one up, uh the gnome house.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell You're just waiting for your marching orders.
38:02
SPEAKER_04: Right.
38:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we'll see what's next.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, look forward to your next project.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Yes, sir.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: And Sergeant Nolan Brown, thank you for joining me today.
38:08
SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell Yes, thanks for having me.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: Captain Jonathan Brown joins me.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, Captain.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Rick.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: It's always good to be back.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: APD embraces acronyms like nobody's business, right?
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And so we've got one for you.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: The MOU with H A C A.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Well, that's the acronym of all acronyms, I guess you could say.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: What is it?
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Memorandum of understanding with the housing authority of the city of Asheville.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: So the MOU with the Housing Authority.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: And we've got kind of some exciting news in that regard because of what this is that came up at the last city council meeting.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: We're going to be uh sending them some additional help.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And the reason is because they asked for it.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, they they've onboarded their new CEO, Ella Santos.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: And Ella is doing a wonderful job.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: She is trying to implement some some of her priorities as uh as she is filling that role as CEO.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Safety is certainly one of those.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: And uh she surveyed the residents of the HACKA neighborhoods, and the results of that survey indicated that their number one concern was safety.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: They didn't feel safe in their neighborhoods.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: So she began collaborating with us.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: We put a plan together to increase our patrols and increase our presence in the HACKA communities.
39:31
SPEAKER_03: So that led to the 30-day housing initiative that we did.
39:36
SPEAKER_03: Eventually, it's going to lead us to a full-time housing unit.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Which used to exist, correct?
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Back in the day when we had the funds, we had the officers.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: It did, yeah.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: We we did have a full-time housing unit that was dedicated to those eight neighborhoods.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: Through the COVID, you know, 2020, 2021, 22 era, we saw a reduction in those specialty teams.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: You know, now hopefully we're getting back to the point where we can restaff those and and put those back in place.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: So we spoke with prior in this episode to Sergeant Nolan Brown, who was part of that housing team for several years.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: And the thing he mentioned is the thing that I have heard as well, which is that a majority of the crimes that occur in those communities are not from people that reside in those communities.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: It's from people coming into those communities.
40:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes, we we've heard that a lot.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: It's interesting because that data point, we actually validated that during the 30-day housing initiative that we did in March.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: Out of all of the charges that were made, what we found was that just under 10 percent of the people that were charged actually lived in housing.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: So around 91 percent were folks coming from the outside into those neighborhoods, and those were the ones that were criminally charged through our investigations.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: That's an overwhelming number.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: That's not like a 60-40.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: No, it's not.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: And it really speaks to back to the residents' concern.
41:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, they're saying that these are folks that are coming in, they're infiltrating our neighborhoods, we don't feel safe, our kids don't feel safe going out outside to the playgrounds to play.
41:17
SPEAKER_03: So um we saw that firsthand recently, and uh I'm anxious for us to to have a more robust presence in housing where we can provide some relief to some of those folks.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of good people that live in the housing neighborhoods, and uh, you know, they're just trying to do life.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: They're trying to do life the best that way they can, you know, kids having an opportunity to go and play, and you know, hopefully we can restore a sense of safety to them.
41:43
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: And you know what's been seen lately is kids outside playing on play sets and enjoying their life like they should be able to.
41:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's such a gratifying part of this initiative.
41:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, we had so many people from the APD that participated in this initiative in one way or another.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes, there were six or so that uh, or five that were direct boots on the ground as part of this team, if you will.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: But we had so many people in supplementary and support roles that made this happen.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: And to start getting feedback from the community that we're very grateful for your presence, we're thankful for what you've done, all of collectively, everyone involved has made that difference.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: And Chief Step sent out an email earlier this week in perfect timing.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: So we were already scheduled to have you come in, and then I read this email, which came from Sherry Guyton, the Hackett Director of Property Management, and of course you mentioned Ella DeSantos.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Both of them commending the Asheville Police Department for the efforts and mentioning about the kids being outside and the community members feeling safer.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Talk about an instant impact.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: I know, I know.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: It's uh that email was um it was tremendous to read that, you know, to be able to make that kind of impact in folks' life.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I the again, these folks, they're just trying to do life.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: Very thankful for our officers.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: Our officers were out there, they were working during the day, they were working in the evening, working at night.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: And again, we have to mention, you've got to mention those that were working in support roles to make this happen because had we not had them, none of this would have been possible.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the reasons it's been difficult to prosecute some of the things that have happened in those communities is the residents feeling unsafe and not wanting to talk, not wanting to point the finger at somebody for fear of their own safety.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Perhaps now, with the safety increasing because of these efforts, it could lead to some more arrests and some more charges and more people saying it's that guy.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, because they feel safer about being able to open up to the Asheville Police Department.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that trust building component is one that's a work in progress for us.
43:57
SPEAKER_03: And I really do anticipate that.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: We are gonna make some gains.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: Once we get our full time housing unit up and running, I think that it's gonna enhance trust, it's gonna enhance collaboration, it's gonna enhance communication.
44:12
SPEAKER_03: I think we will see more information, whether it's in this anonymous tip or or whatever form that may come in.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh I think we will see an increase in that and uh it will help us solve crime.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: And already though, instant dividends.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: We try a lot of things here at the Asheville Police Department to increase community safety, right?
44:30
SPEAKER_01: A lot of initiatives.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: A lot of them, it's a long game, right?
44:33
SPEAKER_01: It it takes a while to see any kind of results.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: We're seeing it here almost immediately.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: And I think that speaks to the special need that it currently exists within those neighborhoods.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of getting out into the community, that's the department that you lead, the community engagement division.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: And you guys are already out there, different communities, including these, always trying to make those connections and build that trust.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: And let's talk about some of the things that are happening coming up in the next month or two.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: We've we've got great ways for the community to get involved with us, to come to us, actually, instead of us going to them with several of our academies.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh we know that the uh the CPA is going on right now, the Citizens Police Academy, uh, and we're just about wrapping up on the junior police academy signups.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: You've got like very little time for that, right?
45:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the junior police academy applications close the around the first of May.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: We we have a really good uh application poll now.
45:28
SPEAKER_03: I think we're up around 20 or so.
45:30
SPEAKER_03: But if you know of anybody in that ninth to twelfth grade age demographic that would benefit from a program like this, a family member, a neighbor, coworkers, kid, whoever, encourage them to sign up.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: We'd love to have them.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: I remember coming out last year.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh I was covering with a reporter, a local media member, uh, to see one of the days that was being done.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: And it happened to be the day with the bomb squad.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And they absolutely annihilated this watermelon.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: And the looks on the kids' faces, I'm like, it's that was just fun, right?
46:00
SPEAKER_01: They're just having a good time and learning at the same time.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell, that's right.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: And that's what we want it to be.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: We want it to be educational.
46:05
SPEAKER_03: We want them to have fun and make some good memories.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: And so we got that.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: You've got the immersion academy.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: Still a chance to sign up for that.
46:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes, immersion academy.
46:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh we are nearing the end of that application process.
46:18
SPEAKER_03: You can can squeak in if you if you get in quickly.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: That's going to be May 18th through 22 when that takes place.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: And that is for our 18 to 20 year olds, or excuse me, our 18 to 22 year olds.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: And uh we're looking forward to that.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: This is a new academy that we're putting on for the first time, so I think it's going to be a uh a really neat opportunity for us to showcase our agency to that that group of folks that uh may be looking for a job.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: It's a very unique opportunity for possible job seekers, because I I don't know too many other fields where you can basically try a job on for size before you dive into the ocean.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: Right?
46:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a little ultra-condensed synopsis of every department and going through that over a period of several days, getting to experience what it would be like to be an Asheville police officer.
47:13
SPEAKER_03: It is, and it also focuses on uh sworn and non-sworn.
47:18
SPEAKER_03: So uh we we may have folks come through this program that have an appetite for uh non-sworn positions, and uh we want to cultivate that and uh make connections, build relationships, and hopefully see them back one day.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they could steal my job.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: They could take mine, right?
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll create some competition here.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: We'll see how that goes.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: What else do we got coming up with your department?
47:39
SPEAKER_03: Don't forget the officer cookouts.
47:41
SPEAKER_03: That will start um Wednesday, April 29th will be our first one, and then the following Wednesday, May 6th, we will have our uh last officer cookout that will be for our A team and B teams.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're getting that good weather too, so good time to light up the grills that really is and start to just hang out with each other and spend a little bit of time.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got a few hundred people in this department.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: We all work together, but how often do you really get a chance to just break bread together and just hang out for a few minutes?
48:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's it right there.
48:09
SPEAKER_03: There's really no agenda other than let's pull the grill out, grill some hot dogs and hamburgers, and everybody come and let's just enjoy a couple of hours together, and it's always a good time.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't get too many opportunities to do that.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: So looking forward to that one coming up.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh having one now, basically, as this is released, and then one next week as well.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: Captain Jonathan Brown, thank you again for joining me, talking about the new MOU with HACA and also your community engagement division too, doing some great stuff.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you, Rick.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: That does it for another episode.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: Thank you to my guests, interim chief Jackie Stepp, District Attorney Todd Williams, Sergeant Noland Brown, and Captain Jonathan Brown.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for listening.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Can't do it without you.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: If you got a question or a topic you'd like discussed or someone you'd like to hear from, call 828-250-8800 and leave a voicemail.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: That's 828-250-8800.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: Or you can email APD Podcastfeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Listen and subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts and don't miss a single episode.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Do me a favor if you could leave us a five-star review, that'll help.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm Rick Rice, and this is the APD Pod Squad.