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The Plastic Straw Ban Failed – Here's What We Can Learn to Protect Our Oceans · How To Protect The Ocean

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  We're going back to plastic straws.
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  I think it's OK.
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  What happened to the
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  ban on plastic straws?
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  Remember when plastic straws became like
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  the public enemy number one?
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  It seemed like banning them
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  would be such an easy thing.
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  Plastic straws hurt turtles.
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  Turtles are good.
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  We want to keep turtles around.
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  So let's ban plastic straws.
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  But it became a lot
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  more complicated than that.
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  And on this episode of the How
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  to Protect the Ocean podcast,
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  we're going to be talking about what went
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  wrong with the plastic ban
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  and how can we do better in
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  the future to protect the ocean.
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  Let's start the show.
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  Hey, everybody, welcome back to another
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  exciting episode of the How
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  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  I'm your host, Andrew Lue, and this is
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  the podcast where you find out what's
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  happening with the ocean,
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  how you can speak up for the ocean, what
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  you can do to live for a
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  better ocean by taking action.
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  And on today's episode, we're going to be
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  talking about the ban of
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  the ban on plastic straws,
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  which you saw in the video where
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  President Donald Trump signed an
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  executive order banning the ban on
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  plastic straws that essentially
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  overturn the former president Biden's
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  executive action on let's ban plastic
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  straws from any
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  federal government facility.
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  This is not a huge ban.
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  This is one of the things where it's
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  like, hey, you know what?
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  It's just in government facilities, which
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  obviously is still a lot of usage.
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  But we're talking about the fight against
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  plastic pollution and
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  against plastic straws.
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  We're not talking about a huge win for
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  the plastic straw industry, but it's also
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  not good for the
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  banning of plastic straws.
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  And really the discussion about the whole
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  plastic straw and marine plastics debate
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  and reducing plastic pollution so that it
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  doesn't end up in the ocean.
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  That's what it's all been about.
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  But before we get into all that, I want
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  to just take it back a little bit and I
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  want to talk about how plastic straws
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  became sort of the
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  symbol of plastic straws.
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  And I want to talk about how plastic straws became sort of the symbol of
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  plastic pollution and then also not the
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  symbol of plastic pollution.
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  Because if you ever realize when I saw
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  the video of Donald Trump signing that
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  executive order, I wasn't surprised.
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  I have to admit, I
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  wasn't surprised at all.
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  This was something
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  that we knew was incoming.
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  He was going to do
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  little actions like this.
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  That's fine.
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  But it was the response by a lot of the
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  people that are out of the government and
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  some of them are celebrities or
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  personalities, influencers, content
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  creators, whatever you have.
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  People who have a platform
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  really talking about, thank God.
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  Like I think for a lot of people, even
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  though this was just banning the ban on
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  plastic pollution or plastic straws in
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  government facilities, this was more of a
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  symbol for a lot of people who are like,
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  I just like plastic straws.
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  I don't like paper straws.
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  That was the big argument against use
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  like having to ban plastic.
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  Trust people didn't like the fact that
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  when you banned it and the second is we
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  are forced to use an alternative that
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  people just didn't like.
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  You've probably heard
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  the argument before.
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  Paper straws, although they're getting
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  better in quality, they would
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  fall apart in a liquid, right?
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  That's paper falls apart in liquid and a
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  lot of the early paper straws did that.
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  Now, I don't find a big difference when I
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  use a paper straw, but a lot of people do
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  and a lot of people hate it.
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  That's the argument that you see over and
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  over, including the argument that Donald
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  Trump used when he
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  signed that executive order.
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  But let's take it back to how this all
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  started back a while ago, about a decade
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  ago, there was a viral video that showed
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  in all of Ridley turtle.
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  Having the plastic
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  straw taken out of its nose.
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  It was stuck in his nose with the
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  scientists that were out doing research.
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  Dr. Nathan Robinson was a friend of the
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  podcast as well as Christine Figoner,
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  who's also a friend of the podcast, been
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  on the podcast talking about this viral
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  video a number of times on this podcast.
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  And it was essentially they were out
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  doing sea turtle research.
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  They came across this sea turtle that
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  looked like it was in trouble.
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  They pulled it onto the boat.
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  They were going to do a workup to make
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  sure that one, it was OK.
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  And with two, they could do their
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  research and they noticed that there was
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  something protruding from its nose.
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  The video, as you probably already know,
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  showed a grueling match of trying to pull
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  that object out of the sea turtle.
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  And when they pulled it out, they
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  realized a plastic
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  straw just sort of unfolded.
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  This has never been seen before.
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  Researchers and sea turtle biologists had
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  never really thought of plastic straws
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  being stuck in the nose.
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  But it went viral and it really launched
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  a campaign on plastic straws.
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  People started their organizations on
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  banning plastic straws.
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  It was just about plastic straws.
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  Company started selling
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  alternatives to plastic straws.
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  A lot of them were metal that you could
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  reuse and it was a great option.
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  You could buy for like a buck 50 or
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  whatever that might be and you can read
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  them over and over and over again.
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  It took off in a little bit.
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  Everybody was banning plastic straws.
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  Cities were banning plastic
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  straws in the US and Canada.
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  Countries were banning plastic straws.
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  This all happened in a
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  very short period of time.
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  There's some pushback as you might expect
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  because there are some
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  people who needed plastic straws.
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  People with disabilities
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  couldn't use paper straws.
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  They had to use plastic straws and there
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  were exceptions made for people with
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  disabilities that had
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  to use plastic straws.
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  And here comes the
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  problem after all of that.
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  People were just tired of having to be
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  told what they can and cannot have.
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  People like plastic straws.
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  They were used to plastic straws and to
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  be honest, a lot of them just never
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  thought of not using plastic straws.
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  Let's be honest when you're sitting in a
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  restaurant when you get served a drink,
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  the plastic straw is in there, right?
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  Or a straw is in
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  there and it's automatic.
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  At one point you had to ask not to have a
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  straw and some people, some waiters would
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  push back others wouldn't.
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  They said, yeah, no problem.
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  Whatever you'd like.
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  It was really up to the consumer person
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  in the restaurant to say, yeah, whether I
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  want plastic straws or not.
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  I remember a couple times I would forget
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  to ask not to have plastic straws and
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  then they would bring it.
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  Now they put paper straws in it or
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  they'll give you a straw that's in a
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  wrapper and they'll put it beside you so
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  you can use it if you want
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  or you don't have to use it.
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  No big deal, right?
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  So the policy response was pretty good
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  when you saw a lot of these plastic
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  straws being banned, especially initially
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  we saw Starbucks, McDonald's, a lot of
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  places in like Seattle, San Francisco
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  started to ban or phase out
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  plastic straws in general.
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  So governments passed the regulations to
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  restrict the use and companies were
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  following that, including some companies
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  would come to alternatives
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  to even using straws at all.
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  Now, were they the best alternatives?
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  I don't know.
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  Starbucks said we're not going to have
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  plastic straws anymore, but we are going
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  to put a cap on it and it's going to be
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  plastic, which was probably
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  worse than the plastic straw.
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  And I think this is where we started to
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  see an unraveling of the campaign.
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  There was so much
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  focus on plastic straws.
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  So many organizations were just focused
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  on plastic straws, banning plastic
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  straws, not using plastic straws that
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  they really missed out on the bigger
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  problem and using this as what I call a
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  gateway plastic to our
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  usage of plastic in general.
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  This was an opportunity to make people
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  more aware of how much single use
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  plastic, which is what plastic straws
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  are, are in our lives.
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  And we just never took advantage as an
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  ocean conservation community.
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  There were some organizations that were
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  kept professing like this is more than
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  just about a plastic straw.
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  Plastic straws only make up 0.03% of
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  marine debris and marine
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  plastics that are in the ocean.
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  So it doesn't really make sense to just
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  focus on a plastic straw.
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  And a lot of people who are against the
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  bans on plastic straws say, why do we
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  care about plastic straws?
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  We shouldn't have to worry about that.
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  We shouldn't be
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  talking about plastic straws.
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  We should be talking about other things,
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  plastic packaging,
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  plastic fishing gear nets.
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  These are the things that we should be
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  talking about and not
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  just plastic straws.
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  Why are we focused so much on the
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  individual who uses plastic straws and
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  making them feel bad for using plastic
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  straws when there's this whole other
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  avenue to go ahead and
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  say, hey, you know what?
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  Yeah, we have a problem with plastic
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  straws, but there's a bigger problem in
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  single use plastics.
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  And this is an opportunity to educate the
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  people on what we can do
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  and provide alternatives.
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  Now, I wanted to really dive in to look
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  at how we can actually do these campaigns
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  better because here's the problem.
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  The alternatives weren't great, right?
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  Paper straws got soggy.
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  Reusable straws required extra effort.
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  Like you had to bring it around.
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  Some people would bring around their
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  purse, but not many people or not many
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  people would keep a
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  straw in their pockets.
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  Some of these reusable mugs and like the
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  Yetis and stuff like that or other like
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  Stanley's and stuff, they actually have
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  plastics or metal straws in their or
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  reusable plastic in their cups already.
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  So people could use that, but not
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  everybody was going to just take a single
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  or a package of plastic straws and bring
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  it around whenever they need it.
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  We don't need plastic straws that much
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  unless you need it to drink if you have
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  some sort of disability or you need it as
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  an exception, right?
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  There's always exceptions to the rule,
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  but for the most of us, we just didn't
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  need straws all the time.
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  It was just something
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  that was convenient.
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  Let's be honest.
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  You're in a restaurant or
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  you're at a coffee shop.
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  You don't really need a
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  straw to drink your drink.
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  You can just drink it out of the cup.
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  The straw has just become part of life.
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  It's become part of our culture, right?
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  Also another alternative like
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  biodegradable plastic still didn't
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  degrade properly in the ocean.
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  And so they were still
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  a problem in the ocean.
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  So in many of the places alternative
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  materials were either expensive or
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  unavailable and they were just
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  inconvenient for a lot of people.
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  So the band was partially effective but
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  divisive and it limited the impact and it
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  was used as a political tool, right?
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  You saw Donald Trump and the Republicans
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  on the campaign
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  talking about plastic straws.
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  And every time you hear, oh, and the
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  plastic straws everybody's like, oh my
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  gosh, don't talk to me
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  about the plastic straws.
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  It was not fun, right?
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  And so what I wanted to do is really look
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  at how this campaign really lost it and
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  how behavior change because that's what
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  we're looking at here.
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  When we're talking about people changing
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  their ways, it's a behavior change and
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  that's difficult to do for us humans.
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  We don't like to change our behavior.
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  Like think about going on a diet when I
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  go on a diet or I start
• 1:09:40
  saying, you know what?
• 1:09:40
  I got to eat cleaner.
• 1:09:42
  It's really hard not to have a sweet that
• 1:09:44
  I really want because I'm like, I should
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  be able to have a
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  sweet and I should be fine.
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  But then I just continue to have sweets
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  and sweets and sweets and sweets and I
• 1:09:50
  can't get away from it.
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  And then I end up gaining weight and I
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  don't want to do that.
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  So I have to change my behavior and that
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  takes a while and that is hard.
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  And that's one of the hardest parts about
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  eating properly after you're not eating
• 1:10:02
  clean as one would say.
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  So there's a lot of things that we need
• 1:10:05
  to know about behavior change.
• 1:10:07
  So here's some of the things that we can
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  talk about behavior changes. It's the
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  actual psychological reactants.
• 1:10:12
  So like people resist
• 1:10:13
  being told what to do.
• 1:10:14
  So if you say, hey, we're going to ban
• 1:10:16
  plastic straws, be like,
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  why? Like what's the point?
• 1:10:18
  It doesn't really do doesn't consist of
• 1:10:20
  all the marine plastics
• 1:10:21
  that are in the ocean.
• 1:10:22
  It's point zero three
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  percent. Why is this a problem?
• 1:10:25
  Why is it me that's having one plastic
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  straw and why am I being isolated and
• 1:10:30
  told I'm not doing something right?
• 1:10:32
  So we're just going to ban it altogether.
• 1:10:34
  People don't like that, right?
• 1:10:35
  Restaurants serves drinks
• 1:10:36
  without straws unless requested.
• 1:10:38
  So that's one way of doing it.
• 1:10:39
  So restaurants could just not serve it
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  and then people like I want my plastic
• 1:10:43
  straw and then they
• 1:10:43
  have to give it to them.
• 1:10:44
  Nobody wants to have
• 1:10:45
  that kind of conflict.
• 1:10:46
  Then there's a status quo by so people
• 1:10:48
  stick to what's familiar.
• 1:10:49
  So like I said plastic straws have been
• 1:10:51
  in our culture for a long time here in
• 1:10:53
  North America anyway,
• 1:10:54
  and we see it all over the world and
• 1:10:55
  sometimes people think it's cleaner.
• 1:10:57
  Some people don't want to drink out of
• 1:10:58
  the drink because it's been reused by a
• 1:11:00
  lot of people even
• 1:11:00
  though dishwashers are crazy.
• 1:11:02
  When you think about how much they clean
• 1:11:04
  and how hot they get but regardless
• 1:11:06
  people just don't like to
• 1:11:07
  get out of that norm, right?
• 1:11:09
  That what's familiar.
• 1:11:11
  So to ensure that sustainable
• 1:11:12
  alternatives are just
• 1:11:13
  as convenient or better.
• 1:11:14
  We have to like invest in better
• 1:11:16
  biodegradable materials
• 1:11:17
  instead of just banning plastic.
• 1:11:19
  So people want straws now.
• 1:11:20
  It's a matter of coming up with a better
• 1:11:22
  product that makes sure that people are
• 1:11:24
  like, okay, you know what?
• 1:11:24
  I actually like this a lot better and
• 1:11:26
  this is just like the social norms.
• 1:11:28
  People just follow the crowd.
• 1:11:29
  We all know this.
• 1:11:30
  We have cults that follow each other.
• 1:11:32
  We have people that follow each other.
• 1:11:33
  We always talk about how there's a hockey
• 1:11:34
  cult and there's a football cult and
• 1:11:36
  there's a basketball
• 1:11:37
  cult and all this thing.
• 1:11:38
  It's like a cult following movies want
• 1:11:40
  cult followings because people will
• 1:11:42
  follow what people suggest.
• 1:11:43
  And so if people are either for or
• 1:11:45
  against something you're going to be
• 1:11:47
  influenced by your peers who are for or
• 1:11:49
  against something right and so showing
• 1:11:52
  that most people are making the switch to
• 1:11:54
  reuse to sustainable
• 1:11:54
  alternatives might be better.
• 1:11:56
  So campaigns that highlight businesses or
• 1:11:58
  cities that are going plastic-free could
• 1:11:59
  be a good alternative like you know what?
• 1:12:01
  I like the fact that somebody is going
• 1:12:03
  out sustainable and I know how expensive.
• 1:12:04
  I know how hard it is.
• 1:12:05
  So I'm going to support that business
• 1:12:06
  more because that's my values.
• 1:12:09
  Not everybody's going to do that, but it
• 1:12:10
  shows a little more of a positive impact
• 1:12:12
  instead of a negative.
• 1:12:13
  We're going to take it away.
• 1:12:14
  So then there's just more licensing.
• 1:12:16
  I recycle so I can use a plastic straw.
• 1:12:19
  So there's a fact is like
• 1:12:19
  I do something sustainable.
• 1:12:20
  So that offsets whatever.
• 1:12:22
  I don't do that sustainable.
• 1:12:23
  I think that's what a lot of people feel.
• 1:12:25
  Then there's also
• 1:12:25
  like political identity.
• 1:12:27
  So it's avoid polarization.
• 1:12:29
  So keep the messaging
• 1:12:30
  inclusive and nonpartisan.
• 1:12:33
  That's really difficult
• 1:12:33
  thing to do these days.
• 1:12:34
  Isn't it?
• 1:12:35
  Even on this episode, I
• 1:12:36
  have a lot of problems.
• 1:12:37
  I just did an episode on what was the
• 1:12:39
  cuts to know and EPA in the comments.
• 1:12:41
  I got man and even
• 1:12:42
  responding to the comments.
• 1:12:43
  I had to learn a lesson or two.
• 1:12:44
  Let's just be honest.
• 1:12:45
  And so having the focus on shared values
• 1:12:49
  of values people like nature people like
• 1:12:52
  being outdoors a lot of people like that.
• 1:12:54
  So to be able to focus on protecting the
• 1:12:57
  outdoors protecting what you see enjoying
• 1:12:59
  that pristine this and that quietness and
• 1:13:01
  that just health of the environment
• 1:13:03
  because it's healthy to the people there
• 1:13:06
  are people on both sides the aisle or all
• 1:13:08
  sides the aisle that love nature.
• 1:13:09
  And that's what we need to really focus
• 1:13:11
  on is those shared values.
• 1:13:12
  So there are five things that in the
• 1:13:13
  future that we can do that will make a
• 1:13:15
  more effective campaign.
• 1:13:16
  So let's focus on bigger wins.
• 1:13:18
  So instead of just straws target high
• 1:13:20
  impact pollution sources.
• 1:13:22
  So plastic bags
• 1:13:22
  fishing gear microplastics.
• 1:13:25
  These will all be better.
• 1:13:26
  So policy efforts should tackle corporate
• 1:13:29
  plastic waste not
• 1:13:30
  just consumer behaviors.
• 1:13:31
  Let's start getting at the bigger impact
• 1:13:33
  here bigger means better.
• 1:13:35
  So not just individual
• 1:13:36
  waste talk about bigger impacts.
• 1:13:38
  Let's be honest when we talk about
• 1:13:39
  businesses even
• 1:13:40
  businesses here in Burlington,
• 1:13:42
  Ontario a lot of the like where the
• 1:13:44
  office where everybody's going back to
• 1:13:45
  office all the offices.
• 1:13:46
  They don't necessarily
• 1:13:46
  have recycling programs.
• 1:13:48
  It's all a sham.
• 1:13:49
  So let's talk about reducing the waste at
• 1:13:51
  corporate levels and at businesses and we
• 1:13:53
  can start doing a lot better providing
• 1:13:55
  better alternatives.
• 1:13:56
  So invest in better materials like we
• 1:13:58
  talked about biodegradable options that
• 1:13:59
  truly break down in the marine
• 1:14:01
  environment and not in your mouth.
• 1:14:03
  That's really what comes down to so paper
• 1:14:04
  straws need to get stronger, which I do
• 1:14:06
  believe again stronger.
• 1:14:07
  I just went to the movies the other day
• 1:14:08
  had a paper straw and it
• 1:14:10
  actually lasted the entire movie.
• 1:14:11
  No problem.
• 1:14:12
  So I don't know what
• 1:14:12
  people are talking about.
• 1:14:13
  Maybe it's like the old type of
• 1:14:15
  materials, but this is a little better.
• 1:14:17
  But you have to invest in better
• 1:14:18
  alternatives so that people are like,
• 1:14:19
  yeah, I can see this.
• 1:14:20
  This is not that big of a deal, right?
• 1:14:22
  Especially when we talk about the
• 1:14:23
  resistance to behavior change.
• 1:14:25
  So shift bands to smart policies.
• 1:14:27
  So use opt-out strategies like we talked
• 1:14:29
  about restaurants being like, you know,
• 1:14:30
  what we're not going to serve it unless
• 1:14:32
  you ask for it, right?
• 1:14:33
  Or we're going to serve different ones
• 1:14:34
  until like we're not
• 1:14:35
  forcing people to take it.
• 1:14:37
  So implement incentive.
• 1:14:38
  So rather than punishments give discounts
• 1:14:40
  for bringing a reusable cup.
• 1:14:42
  That's not a bad idea.
• 1:14:43
  So make it a positive experience and then
• 1:14:46
  for engage the public
• 1:14:47
  with positive messaging.
• 1:14:49
  So instead of don't use plastic straws
• 1:14:51
  say join millions of ocean protectors
• 1:14:53
  reducing plastic waste or small changes
• 1:14:56
  create a cleaner ocean.
• 1:14:58
  The last thing is use
• 1:14:59
  local leaders and communities.
• 1:15:00
  So instead of top-down government bands,
• 1:15:02
  let businesses influencers and
• 1:15:04
  communities lead the change.
• 1:15:07
  These are the different things that we
• 1:15:08
  can do from a behavior change perspective
• 1:15:10
  that will help future
• 1:15:11
  campaigns from working.
• 1:15:12
  Let's not just focus
• 1:15:13
  on the little things.
• 1:15:14
  Let's focus on bigger impact.
• 1:15:16
  Get people to like get the owners off the
• 1:15:18
  individual and more on a community level
• 1:15:20
  and get people behind the campaign
• 1:15:22
  instead of just
• 1:15:23
  talking about it against it.
• 1:15:24
  And let's not force things on people.
• 1:15:25
  Let's allow them to
• 1:15:26
  choose people like choice.
• 1:15:28
  Let's force them.
• 1:15:29
  So that's sort of the
• 1:15:29
  end of this episode.
• 1:15:30
  I want to just kind of let people know
• 1:15:32
  like I am for banning plastic.
• 1:15:35
  I am for this type of work, but maybe
• 1:15:37
  this is not the right way of
• 1:15:38
  doing this type of campaign.
• 1:15:39
  We've seen this done all
• 1:15:41
  over the US all over Canada.
• 1:15:42
  And although it makes it easier to take
• 1:15:45
  out single-use plastics altogether.
• 1:15:46
  And I do agree with some of these bands.
• 1:15:48
  Maybe give people the choice.
• 1:15:51
  Maybe allow business to lead with the
• 1:15:52
  choice and focus on incentives rather
• 1:15:54
  than taking away and maybe
• 1:15:56
  giving a little discount.
• 1:15:57
  It's a little hard to
• 1:15:57
  live out here, right?
• 1:15:58
  A little hard to live.
• 1:15:59
  Some discounts would really help from
• 1:16:01
  businesses and even
• 1:16:02
  government incentives.
• 1:16:03
  So that's the episode for today.
• 1:16:05
  I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
• 1:16:06
  What you thought went wrong with the
• 1:16:08
  plastic band and how you
• 1:16:09
  think it could do better.
• 1:16:10
  I don't care if you're Republican, if
• 1:16:11
  you're Democrat, if you're liberal
• 1:16:13
  conservative, I would
• 1:16:14
  love to hear what you think.
• 1:16:16
  Is it even worth it at all?
• 1:16:17
  So leave a comment down below on the
• 1:16:19
  YouTube channel or on Spotify.
• 1:16:21
  And if you want to get a hold of me, you
• 1:16:22
  can do so on Instagram at
• 1:16:24
  how to protect the ocean.
• 1:16:25
  That's how to protect the ocean.
• 1:16:27
  And also don't forget to subscribe and
• 1:16:29
  hit that notification bell here on
• 1:16:30
  YouTube to be able to get access to our
• 1:16:33
  Monday Wednesday and Friday shows.
• 1:16:34
  And there's going to be even some more
• 1:16:35
  episodes coming soon.
• 1:16:36
  So don't miss out.
• 1:16:38
  So subscribe, hit that notification bell.
• 1:16:39
  And thank you so much for joining me on
• 1:16:40
  today's episode of the How
• 1:16:41
  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
• 1:16:43
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.
• 1:16:44
  Have a great day.
• 1:16:44
  We'll talk to you next
• 1:16:45
  time and happy conservation.