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Normally Podcast: Can Kamala Harris Connect with Male Voters? · Normally

0:03
Speaker 1: Hey, yes, and welcome to you. Normally the show with
0:06
Speaker 1: normalist takes for when the news gets weird. I'm Mary
0:10
Speaker 1: Catherine Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz. And you know what, Carol,
0:13
Speaker 1: before we get started today, I have to hear about
0:15
Speaker 1: the baby picture that goes harder than any baby picture
0:18
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Carol posted one on Twitter X that
0:23
Speaker 1: she must explain to me.
0:24
Speaker 2: So it was taken in Italy. We came from the
0:28
Speaker 2: Soviet Union to Italy and that was the holding place
0:32
Speaker 2: because back when we had immigration laws in America, we
0:35
Speaker 2: made people wait in countries and apply to come in.
0:39
Speaker 2: So our holding spot was Italy. And in the picture,
0:43
Speaker 2: I'm asleep in a baby carriage. I am way over
0:46
Speaker 2: bundled because I think it's like July. And the little
0:51
Speaker 2: note that my parents have underneath it says like sleeping
0:54
Speaker 2: outside while the parents are in the bar. Because leaving
0:57
Speaker 2: your kids outside in the stroller used to be something
1:00
Speaker 2: that people did all over the place. I was responding
1:03
Speaker 2: to somebody saying that moms used to leave British babies
1:06
Speaker 2: outside in the stroller while they went into the shops,
1:10
Speaker 2: and so I was like, guh, yeah, mine used to
1:11
Speaker 2: do that when they went into the bar.
1:13
Speaker 1: I need that. I need that in my neighborhood. I
1:17
Speaker 1: don't think I have a baby picture that goes that hard,
1:19
Speaker 1: but we do have video of my littlest brother circa
1:23
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, just like camcor Old Cam Quarterer video,
1:28
Speaker 1: And he's sitting with a toolbox just full of sharp
1:33
Speaker 1: things and he's one and a half and he's pulling
1:37
Speaker 1: them out and kind of like just experimenting with them,
1:39
Speaker 1: and my mother is filming him the entire time, and
1:43
Speaker 1: I just think, like the arc, the arc, we've come
1:47
Speaker 1: to a different place we need to ash more of
1:50
Speaker 1: Like I mean, yeah.
1:53
Speaker 2: I'm okay, your brother's okay, We're fine.
1:56
Speaker 1: Turned out fine, Yeah, turned out fine. All right, let's
1:59
Speaker 1: get to them to it.
2:00
Speaker 2: So we've talked about my governor on here quite a bit,
2:03
Speaker 2: and let's get a little bit into your governor Glenn
2:06
Speaker 2: youngin Virginia doing some very interesting stuff and obviously getting
2:10
Speaker 2: a lot of hate. I think he's racist now possibly
2:13
Speaker 2: also sexist and moodynist.
2:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's you know, within a month of an
2:17
Speaker 1: election and Governor youngin of Virginia is following the election
2:22
Speaker 1: laws in the state of Virginia why and that became
2:25
Speaker 1: a problem for the Department of Justice under this administration.
2:29
Speaker 1: So the Department of Justice has sued the State of
2:32
Speaker 1: Virginia Glenn youngin According to a law passed in two
2:35
Speaker 1: thousand and six in Virginia and signed by then Governor
2:38
Speaker 1: Tim Kaine, who is a Democrat in the US Senate,
2:42
Speaker 1: they have to vet the voter roles in Virginia for
2:45
Speaker 1: non citizens. The way they do this is that they
2:47
Speaker 1: this was non controversial in two thousand and six. The
2:50
Speaker 1: way they do this is that the DMV has a
2:53
Speaker 1: box you check of whether you're a citizen or not,
2:56
Speaker 1: and if it says you're not a citizen, then the
2:58
Speaker 1: Board of Elections works together with the DMV to look
3:01
Speaker 1: at that information and then send it to your local
3:03
Speaker 1: registrar and say like, hey, is there an issue here.
3:05
Speaker 1: The dj does not want them doing this within ninety
3:08
Speaker 1: days of an election, and they say it violates the
3:11
Speaker 1: federal motor voter law. Weirdly, no one's ever had a
3:16
Speaker 1: problem with this. Right.
3:17
Speaker 2: I was gonna say Governor Kane a racist also or
3:20
Speaker 2: only now No.
3:21
Speaker 1: It turns out it was okay for him to do it,
3:23
Speaker 1: and it's okay for anyone to do it in any
3:25
Speaker 1: election up until this one thirty days away. And I
3:28
Speaker 1: actually talked to the former ag of Virginia about this,
3:32
Speaker 1: Kim Kuchinelli, and he was like, this is pretty clearly
3:35
Speaker 1: for show because this can't even be adjudicated before the election.
3:39
Speaker 1: Like the next filing deadline for our response is twenty
3:42
Speaker 1: one days from now, which puts you almost done. Youngin
3:47
Speaker 1: of course, is like, uh, I have to enforce the law.
3:51
Speaker 1: I don't even have a choice here, guys. So it
3:54
Speaker 1: is a demand from the DOJ for Virginia not to
3:58
Speaker 1: follow its election laws in the thirty days before the election.
4:02
Speaker 1: And I love him calling it out for what it is.
4:05
Speaker 2: So Glenn Youngin, it's not this crazy right winger guy.
4:09
Speaker 2: He's just a very normal, staid, trustworthy guy. And he's saying,
4:16
Speaker 2: they are trying to mess with our election in Virginia
4:20
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to let that happen. So I
4:24
Speaker 2: think the fact that it's Glen Youngin really is important here.
4:29
Speaker 2: It goes beyond just a Republican governor said, or this
4:33
Speaker 2: happened in a Republican governor led state. It's Glen Youngin,
4:37
Speaker 2: and I think he brings a gravitas to the situation
4:40
Speaker 2: that other governors might not.
4:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, with the support of our Attorney general,
4:44
Speaker 1: we will defend these common sense steps that we are
4:47
Speaker 1: legally required to take with every resource available to us.
4:50
Speaker 1: Virginia's election will be secure and fair, and I will
4:52
Speaker 1: not stand idly by as this politically motivated action tries
4:55
Speaker 1: to interfere in our elections. Period. And the funny thing
4:58
Speaker 1: is that the messaging you hear from liberals on this
5:01
Speaker 1: is that Younkin is stirring up right some sort of
5:06
Speaker 1: concern about the elections. No, he's just following the law,
5:09
Speaker 1: which is required to do, and you guys are trying
5:13
Speaker 1: to block a law that actually makes people feel better
5:16
Speaker 1: about the election. That's what's happening.
5:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, And again, I think because it's Youngkin, I think
5:21
Speaker 2: that point of view is actually not getting as much
5:24
Speaker 2: play because they know that he's not doing anything crazy
5:28
Speaker 2: here and that he is. He's like, I'm just following
5:31
Speaker 2: the law. This is the law. You guys had no
5:33
Speaker 2: problem with this law before. Now you do, what's.
5:36
Speaker 1: Up with that?
5:37
Speaker 2: So I like that that your governor's on that.
5:41
Speaker 1: We're glad to have him. I did I looked up
5:43
Speaker 1: all the statutes the other night because and this is
5:46
Speaker 1: what always happens time. Yeah, well what always happens with TV,
5:50
Speaker 1: and Carol will know this is that they give you
5:52
Speaker 1: a list of things to study, and if you really
5:54
Speaker 1: study something, it's definitely not coming up. So it did
5:58
Speaker 1: not give up.
5:59
Speaker 2: Right, if you're ready to go, it's not happening.
6:02
Speaker 1: But I read all of the statutes and called some
6:04
Speaker 1: people and verified all sorts of things, and sure enough,
6:08
Speaker 1: yet it's right there in the Virginia statutes that you
6:10
Speaker 1: have to do this. So this is this is nonsense.
6:13
Speaker 2: Right, and look look at all this research paying off,
6:16
Speaker 2: you know, on normally.
6:17
Speaker 1: Here we go, I did it, guys, All right, what
6:21
Speaker 1: else do we have on our plate? Kamala Harris she
6:25
Speaker 1: is chasing male voters and I don't mean that in
6:29
Speaker 1: any sort of suggestive way. It's just a campaign and
6:32
Speaker 1: they need mail voters and it's not working out. So well,
6:34
Speaker 1: we'll be right back in just a minute. On normally.
6:39
Speaker 2: So we last saw the Kamala Harris campaign over the
6:43
Speaker 2: weekend send Tim Walls out to do some hunting. And
6:48
Speaker 2: that was awkward as all. I mean, it was. It
6:52
Speaker 2: was really bad. It was very hard to watch. He
6:56
Speaker 2: had this elmer Fudd thing about him. It seemed like
6:59
Speaker 2: he had trouble lowing the shotgun. I just you know,
7:05
Speaker 2: the main thing that I think that they're missing here
7:07
Speaker 2: is that pretense is the killer of campaigns. That's really
7:11
Speaker 2: what it is. Like voters can smell when you're not
7:15
Speaker 2: being authentic, and that was inauthentic. If these people could
7:19
Speaker 2: just be themselves a little bit, I think it'd be
7:22
Speaker 2: better for them. But they'll never do that because they're
7:25
Speaker 2: so regimented and so driven on the idea that oh,
7:29
Speaker 2: we need the mail vote. Men like hunting and you know, shooting,
7:33
Speaker 2: and we gotta we got to portray ourselves in that way.
7:36
Speaker 2: Donald Trump does not go dosant hunting, you know.
7:39
Speaker 1: What I mean.
7:40
Speaker 2: He is just himself. Can you imagine him in that outfit, you.
7:43
Speaker 1: Know what I'm we don't need. It's good, he's good.
7:47
Speaker 1: But this is the thing he wouldn't because he's not
7:49
Speaker 1: He would to do something that's not him. Right, He's
7:53
Speaker 1: an authentic weirdo, but it's not that guy.
7:57
Speaker 2: So this Wednesday, Donald Trump is actually going to try
8:00
Speaker 2: to appeal to women. And what he's going to do
8:03
Speaker 2: is not go like put on makeup and go shopping
8:06
Speaker 2: or anything like that. He's going to try talking to them,
8:10
Speaker 2: Mary Catherine, He's doing a town hall with an all
8:13
Speaker 2: female audience. I don't know that seems like the better
8:17
Speaker 2: plan to me.
8:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think engaging with voters is a good thing
8:23
Speaker 1: to do, and it turns out that Walls and Kamala
8:27
Speaker 1: Harris are not great at it. I also think that
8:32
Speaker 1: I look I like the fact that Vance has at
8:36
Speaker 1: times noted like this is just a weakness of ours.
8:40
Speaker 1: We understand that, and now we're speaking to the issue.
8:43
Speaker 1: For instance, when he talks about abortion laws and having
8:45
Speaker 1: exceptions and sending decisions to the states, but he also
8:49
Speaker 1: says women have other concerns, which is something that has
8:53
Speaker 1: always been true for me, right, not my number one
8:56
Speaker 1: concern as the feminists would like for it to be,
9:00
Speaker 1: so speaking about those issues could probably matter to them.
9:04
Speaker 1: I've also have this thing that I haven't researched enough,
9:08
Speaker 1: which is that I am interested in the woo woo
9:10
Speaker 1: mom demographic. It's like sort of nutrition moms. Oh yeah,
9:13
Speaker 1: the RFK fangirl sort of demo. Ye, what kind of
9:18
Speaker 1: numbers are there and how they're reaching them. I'm not
9:21
Speaker 1: really sure what's going on there, but I think there's potential.
9:24
Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen some moderate friends on like
9:29
Speaker 2: Instagram who I don't know that they're voting for Trump,
9:32
Speaker 2: but they love RFK and they are make America Healthy
9:37
Speaker 2: Again moms, So I don't know. I think that there
9:39
Speaker 2: is something to that. On the X on Twitter, our
9:45
Speaker 2: mutual friend John Ekdell tweeted, the Obama coalition was about
9:50
Speaker 2: driving up female support. This was quite successful for them,
9:53
Speaker 2: so successful they began to get smug and downright hostile
9:57
Speaker 2: towards mails, thinking they didn't need them. They're panicked and
10:01
Speaker 2: awkward outreach now tells you they know they pushed too far.
10:05
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of truth to that. I
10:06
Speaker 2: think that they thought that maybe they had some percentage
10:10
Speaker 2: of the mail vote, like locked up, maybe through unions
10:13
Speaker 2: or other ways, and now they're finding that they don't.
10:17
Speaker 2: And of course there's a panic going on right now
10:19
Speaker 2: that black men are moving away from Democrats and heading
10:24
Speaker 2: towards Donald Trump in record numbers. So whether or not
10:28
Speaker 2: that I will really play out on election Day, we'll
10:30
Speaker 2: have to see. I have to say, though, I think
10:33
Speaker 2: that the anti man thing really has backfired. And it's
10:38
Speaker 2: been going on for several years, and you felt it everywhere.
10:42
Speaker 2: The first company I ever boycotted ever was Jillette because
10:46
Speaker 2: they produced this ad that I thought was anti men,
10:50
Speaker 2: and it portrayed men as angry and violent, and I
10:53
Speaker 2: looked at my husband and my two sons and said,
10:56
Speaker 2: I can't support this company anymore. So if you have
10:59
Speaker 2: a political party doing that kind of messaging and saying
11:04
Speaker 2: men are, you know, all toxic masculinity and really just
11:09
Speaker 2: terrible all around, I think you're going to not only
11:13
Speaker 2: push away men, but the women who care about them.
11:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. This has always bugged me, and it's it's so
11:20
Speaker 1: funny because Democrats will say, like, oh, as if you
11:23
Speaker 1: sort of need supporting evidence for this claim that they've
11:26
Speaker 1: been a little hostile to men, I would just say,
11:28
Speaker 1: what's the word most frequently associated with the word masculinity
11:33
Speaker 1: for the past five to ten years. It's toxic, right, Yeah,
11:37
Speaker 1: And that didn't come from the right. The term that
11:41
Speaker 1: came from the right. And men are not missing this right.
11:45
Speaker 1: They have seen this happen. There's been an erosion, by
11:48
Speaker 1: the way, even among black men since two thousand and eight,
11:51
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Obviously Obama consolidated them in huge numbers,
11:55
Speaker 1: but it fell from ninety five to eighty seven percent,
11:57
Speaker 1: down to eighty two, down to eight, and we'll see
12:01
Speaker 1: what it is this year. I found a great stat
12:04
Speaker 1: Carol about this. I think that the Democratic Party, for
12:08
Speaker 1: anybody who sees themselves as traditionally masculine, is going to
12:13
Speaker 1: be an uncomfortable place. Let me give you this stat.
12:17
Speaker 1: So this is a politics, Sex and Sexuality survey from
12:21
Speaker 1: the American Enterprise Institute in twenty twenty two, so it's
12:24
Speaker 1: pretty recent. Among Republican men, a majority fifty four percent
12:29
Speaker 1: described themselves as very masculine. This is compared to thirty
12:32
Speaker 1: three percent among Democrats, so a much lower number. Do
12:36
Speaker 1: you know what two demographics line up exactly with that
12:39
Speaker 1: same percentage percentage of self identified very masculine Black men
12:45
Speaker 1: and Hispanic men. So if you are someone who sees
12:49
Speaker 1: yourself as masculine, right, it is going to be an
12:53
Speaker 1: issue for you. This can be predictive of your party,
12:56
Speaker 1: and I think we might this might be a lagging
12:58
Speaker 1: indicator that's like now catching up.
13:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right about that. I think
13:02
Speaker 2: things like the bud light thing that happened in the
13:04
Speaker 2: last few years. I think men are awake to the
13:08
Speaker 2: threat now. I don't know that men cared for a
13:11
Speaker 2: long time. I don't know that men didn't buy Jillette
13:13
Speaker 2: even after I stopped buying it, because I think that
13:16
Speaker 2: they were like, who cares? But they see now that
13:20
Speaker 2: they are a target and it's no longer fun and cute,
13:25
Speaker 2: And I really do think that they're making changes and
13:30
Speaker 2: going towards the Republican Party.
13:32
Speaker 1: Men are also in despite all of the messaging we
13:35
Speaker 1: get about them being supreme right and oppressing the rest
13:39
Speaker 1: of us in a lot of ways, they're getting kicked
13:42
Speaker 1: while they're down. Because the stats for young men who
13:45
Speaker 1: are increasingly identifying as at least open to being right
13:49
Speaker 1: of center much more than young women, despair deaths are higher,
13:54
Speaker 1: the dangers they face in their jobs are higher, overdose
13:58
Speaker 1: deaths or higher suicides or all of it. Educational attainment
14:02
Speaker 1: much lower, all of these things, and we sort of
14:05
Speaker 1: keep yelling girl power at them as if that will
14:09
Speaker 1: fix some of the policy problems and societal problems that
14:11
Speaker 1: there are. So it just I find it surprising that
14:15
Speaker 1: they're surprised that this will be an issue.
14:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. A long time ago, I read that Roy Tiksira
14:20
Speaker 2: book Why the White Working Class Still Matters, And basically
14:24
Speaker 2: he argues in this book that the white working class
14:27
Speaker 2: will never leave the Democratic Party because they are the obvious,
14:32
Speaker 2: you know, kind of place for them, and that they
14:35
Speaker 2: have nowhere to go in the Republican Party. That book
14:37
Speaker 2: came out like two months later. George W. Bush wins
14:39
Speaker 2: the two thousand election and wins the white working class,
14:42
Speaker 2: and that is completely, you know, null and void. I
14:46
Speaker 2: think the same kind of thing is happening now with men.
14:49
Speaker 2: Although they've already been losing men for a lot of
14:52
Speaker 2: you know, many elections now in a row. I think
14:55
Speaker 2: this is particularly going to be a bad one for them.
14:58
Speaker 2: Let's play the Shane Gillis joke here where he gets
15:03
Speaker 2: kind of somebody yelling at him and trying to be
15:05
Speaker 2: mean to him and calls him a Biden voter.
15:08
Speaker 1: Go to f s U because the girls are unbelievad Why.
15:10
Speaker 3: Why what is it about attracts?
15:13
Speaker 2: Yeah?
15:14
Speaker 3: Boy, the guys were hot too, Yeah, and they were mean.
15:16
Speaker 3: They were mean to me because I was wearing a
15:18
Speaker 3: Notre Dame shirt and I'm pale. They criticized me for
15:21
Speaker 3: being pale.
15:21
Speaker 2: What did they say to you?
15:22
Speaker 3: They said, have you ever seen the sun? Freak? Guy
15:26
Speaker 3: called me a homo. One guy said, I swear to
15:30
Speaker 3: got one guy one frack had yelled from his backcony,
15:32
Speaker 3: you probably voted for Biden. Wow? Yeah, which actually hurt.
15:37
Speaker 2: That one hurts hurt.
15:38
Speaker 3: I did, look, I didn't. Yeah, you know, but that's
15:42
Speaker 3: an insult. That's an insult.
15:44
Speaker 1: That makes very clear though that if this is an
15:48
Speaker 1: on its face insult at a state school while everybody's
15:55
Speaker 1: getting drunk on the weekend, right, then you have a
15:58
Speaker 1: problem with dudes. This is you have a dude problem.
16:01
Speaker 2: But it's funny because I think that we mostly hear
16:04
Speaker 2: about how Trump has this woman problem, and only recently
16:09
Speaker 2: have we started hearing, oh, Kamala Harris isn't doing that
16:11
Speaker 2: great with men. And also it's going to be portrayed
16:14
Speaker 2: as like this sexist thing. Men just won't vote for
16:18
Speaker 2: a woman. But I'm not sure Tim Walls at the
16:21
Speaker 2: top of that ticket would be doing much better.
16:24
Speaker 1: No, or it also doesn't account for the fact that
16:26
Speaker 1: Biden wasn't doing great. You know, I think there were
16:29
Speaker 1: some blue color male voters who were willing to take
16:33
Speaker 1: his sort of scrant and cred the first time around,
16:36
Speaker 1: but after four years many of them were like, I'm
16:39
Speaker 1: not feeling this. Also, you just can't use the sexism
16:43
Speaker 1: card when someone is so manifestly bad at running for
16:48
Speaker 1: president and convincing people. The fact that she's a woman
16:51
Speaker 1: can't be used as the excuse. They'll try, Yeah, they
16:54
Speaker 1: will try. It's like maybe they're just watching her in
16:58
Speaker 1: interviews and they are.
16:59
Speaker 2: Human, but maybe they have ears.
17:04
Speaker 1: I think that might be what's happening. We're going to
17:07
Speaker 1: take a short break and come right back with normally.
17:12
Speaker 2: Well it's Tuesday and we have our occasional Tuesday segment.
17:16
Speaker 2: Yes I'm still mad, bro, where we talk about things
17:19
Speaker 2: that we're still angry about that maybe the news cycle
17:22
Speaker 2: has forgotten and you know, for me new it really
17:26
Speaker 2: does tend to go back to COVID a lot of
17:28
Speaker 2: the time. But I hear from people all the time
17:31
Speaker 2: that they also want a reckoning. People are still waiting for,
17:36
Speaker 2: you know, some accountability, somebody to be held responsible for
17:40
Speaker 2: the bad information that we got. This week's story maybe
17:44
Speaker 2: takes us a tiny step of the way there.
17:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hopeful. So let me read to you two
17:49
Speaker 1: old headlines from twenty twenty two. First, this is the
17:52
Speaker 1: New York Times masks cut COVID spread in schools, study
17:56
Speaker 1: fines and so called natural experiment to school districts and
18:00
Speaker 1: maintained masking after mandates had been lifted in others, enabling
18:04
Speaker 1: a unique comparison. Okay, one more Time Magazine universal masking
18:09
Speaker 1: in school works. New data shows how well, okay.
18:14
Speaker 2: And we knew this was not true. You and I
18:16
Speaker 2: and lots of other people knew this was not true.
18:20
Speaker 1: Right, And this is in twenty twenty two. They're still
18:22
Speaker 1: trying to make such happen. And for those of us
18:25
Speaker 1: who are interested in accountability, the reason I'm interested in
18:28
Speaker 1: this insane twenty twenty two headline about this one study
18:32
Speaker 1: is that they will use it now in twenty twenty four,
18:35
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five to tell you that your kids should
18:37
Speaker 1: be masked during flu season or whatever it is. So luckily,
18:42
Speaker 1: some actual critical thinking scientists went back and reevaluated the
18:49
Speaker 1: way that this group did this study, which was featured
18:53
Speaker 1: in the New England Medical Journal, and a bunch of
18:56
Speaker 1: them were like, maybe you guys should have fact checked
18:58
Speaker 1: this study, because what they did is they did an
19:02
Speaker 1: observational study of two different districts and then drew causal
19:07
Speaker 1: conclusions from it. And there were, as you can imagine,
19:12
Speaker 1: many confounding characteristics of the students in these different districts. Yea,
19:16
Speaker 1: many things that did not allow you basically to draw
19:20
Speaker 1: causal conclusions. Here. Sciency, yes, very science y. And because
19:25
Speaker 1: it was put out there as master AOK and awesome
19:29
Speaker 1: for everybody, it got this glowing coverage. The study debunking
19:34
Speaker 1: it has not gotten so much coverage, but Vene Pissad
19:38
Speaker 1: Tracy Hoag, the folks we can rely on heroes from
19:43
Speaker 1: the past, are involved in this and have publicized it,
19:46
Speaker 1: and so it will be yet another nail in the coffin, hopefully,
19:50
Speaker 1: of these insane mandates.
19:52
Speaker 2: It's important to, as you brought up, to note that
19:55
Speaker 2: this was twenty twenty two, yes, twenty twenty two, not
19:59
Speaker 2: like spring twenty twenty. Twenty twenty two. When we left
20:04
Speaker 2: New York we moved to Florida, and January twenty twenty two,
20:07
Speaker 2: my kids were still masking, not just inside their schools
20:10
Speaker 2: but outside. During lunch. They were taking bites and masking.
20:14
Speaker 2: In between bites. They were sitting on the ground in
20:18
Speaker 2: winter New York City outside because they couldn't be eating inside. Meanwhile,
20:23
Speaker 2: of course our senior citizen Governor Kathy Hokeel was dining
20:28
Speaker 2: inside at restaurants and never seen in a mask. So
20:32
Speaker 2: it's really it continues to fill me with bitterness that
20:37
Speaker 2: so many kids had to do this for so long
20:40
Speaker 2: based on completely corrupt and incorrect science, and that there
20:45
Speaker 2: has been no accountability. Nobody has said, look, we were wrong. Sorry,
20:51
Speaker 2: we haven't gotten anything close to that. What we do
20:53
Speaker 2: get sometimes is nobody knew. Nobody knew, we knew, we knew,
20:58
Speaker 2: we knew, and they knew and they didn't care. And
21:02
Speaker 2: that will just bother me for the rest of my life.
21:05
Speaker 1: Yes, I am with you, and I think there is
21:08
Speaker 1: a tendency in our modern times to just double and
21:12
Speaker 1: triple and quadruple down, and as long as you sort
21:16
Speaker 1: of fold yourself in moral righteousness, you're going to get
21:20
Speaker 1: a pass if you're generally of the sort of elite
21:23
Speaker 1: lefty leaning thinking. It's crazy to me because still people
21:27
Speaker 1: will come after Ivanate prosad or a jay A Boticharia,
21:31
Speaker 1: people who were correctly skeptical of all these things. They'll
21:34
Speaker 1: come after them online or even our friend Bethany Mandel
21:37
Speaker 1: for instance, and say like just like sort of come
21:41
Speaker 1: after them for things they said that were correct. Yeah,
21:44
Speaker 1: and like we've lived through this, we now know that
21:48
Speaker 1: these critical thinkers were the more correct thinkers, because that's
21:53
Speaker 1: how science works, because you're supposed to be questioning these conclusions.
21:58
Speaker 1: So I'm really thankful for the people who did this study.
22:01
Speaker 1: Debunking an observational study sort of turned into a magical
22:07
Speaker 1: booster of mask mandates.
22:09
Speaker 3: Right.
22:09
Speaker 2: And I remember arguing about these studies and saying these
22:12
Speaker 2: aren't real studies. This is not actually how studies work.
22:15
Speaker 2: It's this is incorrect, and getting all this pushback, well
22:19
Speaker 2: you're not a scientist. Well these people are clearly not
22:21
Speaker 2: scientists either. These are the kinds of studies that they're running.
22:24
Speaker 2: It was nonsense all along. I'm glad to see some
22:29
Speaker 2: again reckoning with this. It's just Tracy Hoague has been
22:33
Speaker 2: on this for years and years. I think she's done
22:35
Speaker 2: some of the most amazing work. Yeah, here we are
22:38
Speaker 2: still angry about this.
22:40
Speaker 1: Many years later. I was actually just looking at my
22:43
Speaker 1: Facebook memories from twenty twenty and we had gone my
22:46
Speaker 1: husband was in near Seattle, sort of out in rural
22:50
Speaker 1: Washington state outside Seattle for a work training for a
22:54
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. And we flew out there in October
22:57
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, my kids and me. There was nobody on
23:00
Speaker 1: the plane. We got a little air be amazing. We
23:03
Speaker 1: hiked all week long. I did homeschool with them, and
23:06
Speaker 1: I'm very thankful that that's the uh, that that was
23:09
Speaker 1: the strategy that we had in our family because we
23:12
Speaker 1: lived a good life and a lot of people could
23:14
Speaker 1: have who were kept from doing so. And it was yep,
23:17
Speaker 1: it was not great. We had no rational risk analysis
23:20
Speaker 1: going on at all.
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean Bethany, our grandma killing friend. She argued
23:26
Speaker 2: that if we keep things closed too long, they won't reopen,
23:31
Speaker 2: and that ended up being the case, of course. And
23:32
Speaker 2: I still even now when I see, you know, Facebook
23:36
Speaker 2: groups of New Yorkers being like, oh, remember that restaurant
23:39
Speaker 2: that closed in twenty twenty, Like it closed because of
23:42
Speaker 2: bad policies. It closed because of bad policies that you
23:45
Speaker 2: all supported. Yeah, that restaurant closed, and it said and
23:50
Speaker 2: it was for a reason. It was because you believed
23:54
Speaker 2: something crazy and lived your life in a crazy way
23:56
Speaker 2: and didn't question any of it. So, I mean, the
23:59
Speaker 2: all all I can hope for, and I have very
24:02
Speaker 2: little hope for this is it should anything happen again,
24:04
Speaker 2: I would hope that people would be just less likely
24:09
Speaker 2: to do any of the any of the insane things
24:12
Speaker 2: that we were told to do. You can go surfing
24:15
Speaker 2: by yourself, and you can be outside and all these
24:18
Speaker 2: other things. But I don't know. I haven't seen a
24:21
Speaker 2: lot of evidence that people really learned lessons. And this
24:25
Speaker 2: is why this continues to be what we are mad about.
24:27
Speaker 1: Bro still men, I would the accountability for the people,
24:32
Speaker 1: for the people who made the bad decisions, not just
24:34
Speaker 1: the people who had to live through the bad decisions. Yes,
24:37
Speaker 1: that's all I'm looking for someday.
24:41
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
24:45
Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
24:48
Speaker 2: in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com,
24:52
Speaker 2: and thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act
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