Latest / Skin Anarchy / Skincare Vs. Cosmetic Surgery: Myths and Misunderstandings

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Skincare Vs. Cosmetic Surgery: Myths and Misunderstandings · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: Hello everyone.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: This is Ekta and Fraheen, and we're back with another episode for you guys.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: Today we're going to talk about skincare versus plastic surgery and also cosmetic surgery and the differences and overlaps between the two and you know what it really means to get one versus the other.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, just the overall understanding I think that you know the community has right now about these procedures, right, Fraen?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I personally you know rely on skincare for a lot of um changes in my skin, but I would love to know what other procedures there are out there for someone whose skin is getting older, aging and changing.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: And there's really a lot of stuff out there.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's the the funny part is that um, you know, I've noticed just you know in the medical field that as you know, skincare has kind of come about and really kind of grown over these last couple of years, um, so has cosmetic surgery, you know, believe it or not, it's it's really expanded.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think one of the best examples that I've seen of that is that show.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if Rena, if you had a chance to uh catch it on Netflix, but it's that show with that um plastic surgeon and uh nurse Jamie.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like basically doing, you know, they do this consult where, you know, the person comes in and you know, like I guess fans write in, you know, about their skincare concerns.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, they basically set up a meeting with both the plastic surgeon and then nurse Jamie, who's more on the cosmetic surgery side or cosmetic procedure side, you know.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I know she's got a whole skincare line, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: That's like it's launched and people really love her tools.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean it's it's an interesting show, you know, to say the least.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm I'm actually really when I first saw that on Netflix, I was really excited to see that because I think it's um bringing up a topic that uh, you know, indirectly that needs to be talked about.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny that no one wants to hit this topic head on, or you know, maybe they don't feel like it's relevant to a general audience, but I feel like people who are in our age group and younger, online shopping and consuming products um by researching it and experiencing it first online is like really important to the overall purchasing experience.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know that if I'm gonna be purchasing skincare, chances are that I'm not gonna go in store and like put it on my hand and try it out.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm going to go on my favorite content creators uh page or read reviews online and look at textures and um read from creators who have a similar skin type as me to see whether it's a good product.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that tactile um aspect of just you know being able to try things and really work with them is really why um I think this this topic is important because um, you know, with for example, I just want to kind of start off with an overview um for the listeners, because I think people assume that plastic surgery or cosmetic surgery are these extremely lengthy procedures that require some sort of downtime or you know what I mean?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like they I think a lot of people have this preconceived notion that it's really, really um, you know, vastly different than just putting something topically on your face, like most of our skincare products.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's not, you know, like for example, like, you know, there's so many procedures, and I know we'll we'll dive into these later, but um, there's a lot of stuff that takes like 30 to 60 minutes, you know what I'm saying?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like I I look at that and I'm like, you know, that's basically like if you look at a skincare routine of some people.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: I know some um bloggers or people that take 30 minutes just for their night routine, you know, every single day.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I fall into that category that has a preconceived notion of what plastic surgery is.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you say that, I mean, immediately the word surgery evokes anesthesia, going under the knife, pain, blood.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the little marks that are, you know, that always come to mind where people mark up your face and um it's an indication of what needs to be done before the procedure takes place.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not the reality of the situation.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it's definitely an area that needs a lot more information.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I guess to start things off, um, we can kind of look at, you know, just like I know you you touched on online shopping and you know, um the importance of it, but really just the um where did this this notion really come from?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_04: This all this misinformation, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's like this almost like a a fear in um the community, the beauty community, I think, of plastic surgery and skin, you know, just facial stuff.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, I know for a fact that when I started um making my Instagram posts a a couple of years ago, um, FaceTune was this huge thing, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: So, like all these girls on Instagram.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I kind of started off by following uh like you know, like you know, the makeup people and stuff like we talked about this in our first episode, but um, they all use FaceTune.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember one day I saw And Snapchat, the filters.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, I mean, I'm guilty of that, I'm not gonna lie.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: Guilty of the Snapchat filters, but yeah, you're right.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: It was a lot of filters, a lot of lighting changes, you know what I mean?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like they really manipulated what they were looking like, and um it almost felt real because I think this level of editing, we hadn't really been doing that, you know what I mean?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like before it used to be like remember like Photoshop when it was big, you always knew when someone's picture was photoshopped, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: So, like when these it was too perfect, yes, exactly, exactly.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so when FaceTune and all these apps came out, it was almost like deception for the longest time because I I I'll be the first to admit I had no idea that was a thing.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea either.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would see these pictures on Instagram and I'd be like, How in the heck does their face look like that?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like the smoothest skin, the best lighting, and it just I mean, I was like, is this what people look like?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because where where did the circle exist?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no, I 100% agree.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it is really deceiving.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're not um in tune to that, if you're not like up to speed on all these different apps that make it literally, you know, would take seconds to manipulate a photo, yeah, that still looks realistic, that still looks very much true to its form.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: But all these little tweaks and lighting and smoothing filters and all these things that people do to the photos that they don't even know that's being done because the app does it automatically really creates this perception of and the idea of like skin should be perfect and flawless, and I guess an unrealistic idea of skin health that's essentially unattainable.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you feel like, okay, that's the skin I should have.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me try everything possible to try to achieve at least a quarter of that because skin is so far behind.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think especially as we age, I mean it becomes this thing because I know for me, um, one of my personal skin concerns, pretty much my whole life has been like um enlarged pores.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: So when Facetune and all these apps kind of came out, it was so deceiving for me because I would still see the pores on the person's skin, but they were very blurred, you know what I mean, to say the least.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like almost like deceptive in the way that I know they still had the pores and they're showing people that, but it's like the quality of the pores, you know what I mean?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a huge, yeah, huge um kind of like shocker, you know.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and I'm not gonna lie, it kind of for me, it propelled me to get even more interested in skincare hustle because I was like, oh, if they can attain it, I'm sure, you know what I mean?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: If I buy the right products and stuff, I can do it too.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it really gets to everybody because we're I mean, we're reasonable human beings, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we always fell into this trap.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I can only imagine.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're in our 30s, I can only imagine the effect that this culture has on the younger generation.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think they're more in tune to all the stuff that's on social media.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but still, I mean, when you keep seeing these images from a young age, that's that messes with you.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I absolutely agree.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like the new, it's basically the new version of what we had to deal with in our magazines, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, it's like a virtual magazine everywhere you go.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: And these, you know, young girls, like in their teen years and whatnot, they see this and they they have this like notion in their mind of of beauty and what it means and how how perfect is perfect, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: So like all of that has been, I think, warped because of these filters and you know, like apps.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not real.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, um, I feel like it's almost worse now because it's the whole point of Instagram is like relatability, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like you're going on there and the creators you follow, that's like your friend or your girl next door, or your friend next door, or like your colleague, or someone at school, and you feel like, well, they're just normal people.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: They can achieve this.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's wrong with me?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it really just creates, yeah, I mean, it creates this false sense of um uh attainable perfection.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you you feel like you've lost if you don't attain it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm not even gonna put all the all the, I don't want to say blame, but I mean, for lack of a better term, really it is blame on the consumers because to be honest, um, I think a lot of uh companies saw these pictures, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: That a lot of these bloggers were taking and promoting, and they basically ran with it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I think propagated the idea that wait a minute, this isn't an unattainable perfection.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: We can help you get there.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then they started using these words, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like poor, like more poreless skin or whatever, you know, whatever the skin can consider.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Poreless skin, yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and like the yeah, go ahead.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it like it went from skincare to makeup too.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like half the foundations on the market have filter in the name or blurring or whatever the case may be.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's gotten everywhere.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's basically and you know, in skincare, yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: The blurring word is definitely in skincare too.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, what does blurring mean?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, reality can't be blurred.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like we have to accept that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: But like I'm a sucker for it too, though.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm not gonna be a hypocrite, I'm a sucker.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: If I see the word blurring in a in a product, I'm gonna be like, yes, I need blurring, please.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, blur as much as you can.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know what?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, Instagram aesthetic looks absolutely ridiculous in reality.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about that?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you mean you don't want to see seven shades of eyeshadow on me?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: What?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, free.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that in like the makeup, like the Instagram makeup in person.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: If like the highlighted look underneath the eye and this like the sharp contour, the sharp highlighter, yeah, it it looks ridiculous.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would I would I couldn't go to the grocery store looking like that or work or anyway.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, like no, the highlight, it's so funny you brought highlighters up, and I know we're taking like a little detour right now with our with our um you know, staying on topic, but it's really funny.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the highlighter thing is so good because I can't you not I did not understand highlighters for the longest time.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, what is the purpose of this product to make me look oily because I had oily skin.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like, why would I want to make my own skin look oily?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't make any sense.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, again, with the you know, it's just that lighting and the camera and all of that makes this whole thing come together for them.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um completely disregarding that they, you know, I mean, keep let's just keep me keeping on skincare, even with skincare.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, they'll pile on.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: Remember the seven skin method and all of that, and how dewy everyone's face was, and like you know, moisturized and plump, and it was like, oh wow, why can't my skin look like that all the time?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: But it's like you don't, it's like we don't stop to think, wait a minute, she probably has like eight layers of toner on her face, you know what I mean?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I saw this really um funny TikTok that was a satire of these routines.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like this guy slathering Vaseline all over his face.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then he was posing, and his skin looked amazing.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was not expecting that to end that way.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's funny.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, you know what?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Vaseline, I I'm coming to the conclusion that Vaseline really is that magical skincare product.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so I guess he's using the right product.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, another funny thing that happened to me is I usually do my skincare in in the morning and at night, like at night, especially.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm very religious about it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yesterday, for some reason, like I'd forgotten to do it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I woke up this morning and my skin looked really good, like, really, really good.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what did I use last night?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, it took me 10 minutes to figure out I didn't do anything to her face.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't even wash it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: I let my face breathe.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I did.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: I let it actually inhale some oxygen.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like, O2 did this to me.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: This is great.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: We should come out with a product O2 toner.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's you know, but no, I I completely get you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: I've had those those days too.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I'm not gonna lie, back when um La Mer was not being um basically chastised as much as it is now, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: For their prices and what they're giving you.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna lie, that LaMaire cream I use, like the moisturizing cream that they have, it's like the big one, I think.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it worked really well for me.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't realize the only reason this is working for me is because I'm actually going out of my way to now put some sort of moisturizing, you know, agent on my skin, which it needed, you know what I mean?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: So even if I had done that with any other moisture, I think my skin would have looked just as good in the morning.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, it's almost like like for me, that's where I start to have like a problem because it's like, you know, skincare companies have monetized so heavily on this like misconception of what you really need and to look like those girls in the Instagram posts until you know, and so yeah, that that's why I think this pro this topic is so important because it's taken a lot away from the dermatology and the cosmetic surgery um professionals out there, I think, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I I definitely think so too.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, I know that like a lot of people, you know, don't want to go to cosmetic surgeons or plastic surgeons because they always have this, like you mentioned, like that whole big procedure in mind.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, there's so many like nowadays, there's so many like clinic spas.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if you know what I'm referring to, like the med spas, yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, the med spas.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, you can walk in, get get a procedure and get a get a really good facial, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, for example, like um, I know derm abrasion was this huge thing, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: For a long time for acne scarring, and a lot of people were relying on um home derm abrasion kits and all this, but it's like, why don't you just go to a doctor's office, you know what I mean, and spend the money that you're gonna spend on the skincare anyways and get proper dermobrasion done, you know?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a huge difference because the procedure that you're trying to, you know, perform and the results you're trying to accomplish are already, you know what I mean?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: They've been tested, tried, you know, shown at these clinics or through these professionals.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: So that stigma is something I just can't understand.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where is that stigma really coming from?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think part of it is coming from um people think it's expensive and out of their reach, you know, if their budget.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, if you added all of these things together that you're buying, you could afford the um the copay or the premium or even paid cash.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel like even going to the dermatologist, you know, it falls in the$250 to$300 range, even if it's out of pocket.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then these procedures, I mean, at least you can for sure know you're getting you're going to get a result from it because uh doctor has evaluated your skin and is recommending a procedure that is targeted for that skin condition.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you know it's going to work.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, you know, you can get that done with a couple hundred dollars.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Over the course of a couple of months, I mean, that kind of is the same thing as buying 50 bottles of whatever it is that you're buying.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And like, you know, even with um skin concerns, like I know you and I have discussed hyperpigmentation as well, you know, really up there for both of us, um, because of our, you know, just uh more melanin in our skin.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's like, you know, if you go to one of these places, a lot of times, you know, the laser therapy or whatever um, you know, procedure that you're opting for, it's going to cost you the same amount of money as any good hyper pigmentation skincare product.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, not to mention products, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're gonna have like, you know, I I'm willing to bet people have like three or four that they're using for such concerns.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the all of that adds up to that, like you said, the same, that$350,$400 range.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, these days I'm not seeing very many lines that are very affordable.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think the ordinary was the first line, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_04: That I for me, I noticed them immediately because I was like, oh wow, ten dollars for a serum.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, what's wrong with this stuff?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like something must be wrong, something must be off.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I know everything else was like 80, 90 plus, you know, in terms of um of money.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: But I think for me, it's like, you know, it it really is that monetary aspect that I think uh I thought was the big hurdle for the longest time, but it makes no sense, you know, because you're still spending that much money.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: We I mean just between us on our Instagram po uh feeds, independent feeds, we see so many people, followers and people just buying, you know, in bulk, like just you know, three toners and one you know, two essences like you don't need all that, you really don't need all that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think so.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's also this misconception.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there's still a stigma attached to going to a doctor for cosmetic procedures.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, okay, I don't know for sure, but in my mind, that started in my experience when like the celebrities, like for example, Kim was like Kim Kardashian was like, no, I've never had surgery done, I've never had cosmetic procedures done.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: But clearly she has, she just didn't have the type of procedure where she probably went under under anesthesia and they like cut her up and stuck like silicone in her body.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I mean, she's had Botox done, she's had um like that uh vampire, yeah, the fillers, yeah, and that vampire facial that she did was done at a doctor's office.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was a cosmetic procedure.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people moved that line of what constitutes a cosmetic procedure all the way to oh, I gotta go under the knife, get cut up, and have silicone in my body for that to be considered cosmetic procedure.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think I think this is such an excellent point that you bring up because now that I think about it, um, if we're really honest, all of these really big skincare trends have actually, I mean, I I'm thinking back, and they've most of them have originated from some sort of celebrity endorsed uh cosmetic surgery procedure.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, for example, the vampire facial, or before that it was um, you know, like I I brought a derabrasion, and that was because of celebrities as well.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then you had these like, you know, um very extravagant facials and whatnot that you would see people, you know, buying basically, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think skincare took off from that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: So that whole stigma really imply, you know, applies, which you mentioned with the whole idea that if I go to a plastic surgeon or a cosmetic surgery clinic, I'm definitely gonna be bloody, I'm definitely gonna have scars and all this stuff.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just not true.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's it's not the like I just want to clarify that cosmetic surgery and plastic surgery are two different things, you know, and um plastic surgery usually is more invasive, obviously, because you're you know, you're coming into like actual body work at that point, in which case, obviously, you know, blood and all that is gonna get involved.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: But cosmetic um procedures are first of all, they're usually not health related, you know what I mean?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: 99% of the time.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: Second of all, there are gonna be um procedures that are just much more superficial, you know, like we talked about like Botox or any kind of injectables, um, you know, soften off the upper layers of your skin, um, you know, putting in something in there to plump it up a little bit, all those, all that stuff, you know, falls under the realm of cosmetic surgery.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so and and really cosmetic surgery is what these celebrities utilize, if we're very honest.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's what they're really doing.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, it's it's I I think we need to take the reason I'm even saying that is we need to take away and separate out cosmetics and plastics.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like we need to really because those two, you know, they're very different.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: And and they're they're dealing with completely different kinds of problems.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: So um I think a lot of people don't understand that a plastic surgeon can be a cosmetic surgeon as well, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but cosmetic procedures can be done by, for example, you know, again, nurse Jamie, you know, she does cosmetic procedures, but she's not a MD.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's a completely different type of training.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know about it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Aesthetics is really important, right?
• 22:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Aesthetics is really important when it comes to I feel like both, but more so with cosmetic, at least in my mind, because it's only a 30-minute procedure, so you better get it right or yeah.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna look good.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: And and you have to know what you're doing because the the machines that they're utilizing are extremely expensive machines.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: So they have to be able to they have to be able to deliver.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost like in my mind, I I'm I'm confused because I feel like there's more invested from the and from the cosmetic uh clinic's end in terms of money and time, you know.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they are, I think, investing a lot of um their resources into making sure that they're even able to perform these procedures.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: So they're probably going to deliver a product that is going to actually do what it claims, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because otherwise, there's no sustainability on their end for spending millions of dollars on this new laser technology machine they have, you know.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: So which is which, you know, in contrast to skincare companies, a skincare company, how much effort does it take to come out with a new serum?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: For example, glow recipe, again, with glow recipe, like coming out with these redundant, you know, products.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I feel like they're always coming out with redundancy, and it's um, they came out with a new hyaluronic serum.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sitting here thinking, like, dude, this is like, you know, what what really are you investing here as a company?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, hyaluronic serums are some of the easiest.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think, I mean, I want to say and it's like$40, isn't it?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's always like$40 with them.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's always like$35,$40, you know, and it's it's expensive.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, how many hyaluronic serums can you buy in a lifetime, you know, before you go to a cosmetic place and have actual hyaluronic acid injectables put into your face that are actually gonna give you the results you need?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not promoting it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just you know, I'm just saying, like that's that's the difference.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean that really is the difference.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_04: You're trying to attain something with skincare that is just not possible, you know.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like like we we've talked about in our previous episodes about how things like hyaluronic acid, collagen, all these things are available in our dermal layers.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: So why the heck would you put the money into skincare versus you know, a place that's gonna poke you with a 25-gauge needle and you know you're gonna be good?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like so, anyways, but I think I think it's interesting.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think it's interesting how people choose to spend their money.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think cup is it is interesting, and I think it's rooted in marketing.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's almost as if skincare companies have really gotten that down.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they've really figured out the way to get into our heads and convince us that a serum's gonna solve the issues that really only realistically cosmetic surgery can solve.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're really successful at it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think we can just tell by the the huge ranges of products that are coming out.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, almost every company has a whole range of skincare.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now celebrities are releasing skincare lines.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that should in itself like tell you a lot about the industry.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's funny you brought up Kim Kardashian because she just came out with her announcement about KKW skin, you know.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I I put that up in my stories.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: I know a lot of people did.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, about are you serious?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, come on, Kim.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know, why would you pro you know, promote a skincare line, which is not at all a contributing factor to how you look right now?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's not even and we all know it, you know, it's like out in the open.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's everybody knows about this stuff, but um Yeah, because she puts it out there.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's in the doctor's office.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Filming it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's like she's like cripple monetizing on us, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: She's got the publicity stunts and the you know, we buy into that, and then we buy into her skincare line, and then we you know, it's just it's a it's a non-stop snowball effect, I feel like, with these celebrity lines.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, so I think So I have a question for you.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this so what are some procedures that should be done in with with a cosmetic surgeon or cosmetic specialist versus skincare?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's an awesome question.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I think um if if it were up to me, I kid you not, I would put everybody in an office because I think there's a really, really um fine line between a do-it-yourself thing versus are you do you really know what you're doing with a do-it-yourself?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I really come from the angle of thinking that we for example, okay.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: Let me let me actually address the actual question.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: So der abrasion, I brought that up.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: Microneedling, definitely think that's an in-house procedure.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: You need to go to a professional.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Any kind of injectables, anytime you're poking your skin or like damaging that barrier in any kind of way, you need to go to a professional.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: So that not only is it done properly, but so that the way that you're damaging your skin, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because sometimes people want to damage it to promote collagen production, which we talked about before, but like, you know, the you can't do what a trained professional is gonna do in an office because the just the way that you, you know, run the tool across your face or the patterns you create, all of that comes into play with the results you're trying to achieve.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's gonna infect scarring, it's gonna affect things like fibrous tissue coming back in and really doing its own job and you know, just the regeneration of cells.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of um, there's a lot of these factors around this question.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think a lot of those question marks about these factors are only answered by a trained professional.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: So when it comes to procedures, yeah, I think anything injectable, so Botox, um lip fillers, hyaluronic acid.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I lip fillers, for example, I know um people were really into them, but then a lot of skincare lines came out with these like lip serums, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: That were like okay, making your lips tingle, and like, you know, it was claiming, hey, you know, collagen boost or whatnot, make your lips look fuller and all this stuff.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: And they were kind of following that trend of you know, cosmetic surgery kind of blowing up again with the with the lip filler.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: So, hey, here's the skincare lines, you know, coming out with their own version of a lip filler.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: But um, but no, I think those kind of procedures like that needs to be done in a in a clinic.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um I would even say something like uh like peels, like certain peels for your skin need to be done by a professional because the likelihood of damaging your skin barrier with a peel is extremely high because acidity and pH changes need to be monitored and regulated.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you can't leave a product on your face for more than a certain amount of time, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of people I know um when the, for example, the ordinary and drunk elephant, when they came out with that baby facial, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that 30% AHA or whatnot, it scared the living crap out of me.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna lie.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was like, that's a really intense, that's a potent product, you know?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it scared me to think that people were doing this at home.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: And were they timing themselves?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, for me, I always put on a timer, like with those kind of things.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, I do not want to go beyond my limit, you know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it kind of scared me because I was thinking about all these women that probably just put it on, go do something, they lose track of time, and then bam, you've got you know, certain types of like chemical burns going on on your skin, you know, and you don't even realize it because you know, you yeah, it just it doesn't show like normal burns, you know.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, I feel like I definitely felt in that category where I didn't time.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I've tried the baby facial, but I definitely did go through a whole bottle of the ordinary uh the dupe, the H A BHA dupe that's red.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I liked it, it was nice.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I repurchased it because I just didn't, you know, I felt like other products could achieve the same thing without me having to mess with the the product.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yes, I mean I I feel like at one point it lucked it on even up to 15 minutes, like I just kind of forgot.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think for someone who doesn't have a background in medicine, you just kind of take for granted that things are safe and that there's like you know, an idiotic factor built into the product where it gives you a certain level of leeway, yeah, um, where you can maybe misuse the product and not be hurt by it.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just like a I think I take something like that for granted.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, you know, I need to just be more careful because you're right, like damaging your skin is so easy because there's so many products at our disposal now, and we just don't have enough knowledge.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't, as a regular consumer, it takes way too long to do the research and figure out if what products work for you or if this product works for you versus another product that may have similar ingredients.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, I'm I think I'm starting to go down that route of simple routine is best, and I'm being more careful these days.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I mean, you know, we both are immersed in the in the whole skincare industry and following, you know, the all the new launches, but I think for anybody, uh, you know, my my personal take on it after having tried these products, like the one you mentioned, I love that product by the way, by the ordinary.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm not gonna lie, I really loved it, and I thought it was great for my skin.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_04: But here's the thing um, even if you're one, if you do a facial like that one time and you leave it, you know, you leave it on for the designated amount of time, well, who's to define how many times a week you can use a peel that strong?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's no one at all setting guidelines about this stuff, you know, and there is such a thing as overexfoliating.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I, you know, one of the biggest kind of cringe moments I've had just watching the skincare scene has been about just over like excessive use of certain products, you know, and peels being really at the at the forefront of that because everybody loves a good peel, you know, everybody does.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's like your skin radiates, you look beautiful, like it just your face looks renewed, you know?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it really does.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so a lot of times you fall into this trap of, okay, well, I need to keep doing this, you know, maybe three times a week, maybe two times, and that might be too much for your skin.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: So then you get skin redness and you get irritation, and then you're trying to figure out, well, let me backtrack and figure out what I did because why am I having this you know reaction?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're if you go to a doctor's office with that, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: So now you you're bringing up you're bringing a doctor in a little too late, you know, in in the situation because now you've done the damage, and the doctor now has to piece together the puzzle of how can I help you and how can I treat this?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, it's it's really, I think, a trickling effect with you know what you're doing to your skin.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: But more so I want to actually make this point, you know, that it doesn't always have to be medicine, you know, it doesn't always have to be doctors, it can be anyone who is trained, you know what I mean?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be trained, like anytime you handle skin or any part of the human body, some level of training has to go into that.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, would you want, you know, like to go in for a medical procedure?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: And even if it's a tech that you're dealing with, would you want that tech to not know what they were doing?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, would you want to do it yourself?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like take over your own, you know, routine or like, for example, I don't know, dialysis.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Would you want to do your own dialysis?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know, or would you want to actually train professional doing dialysis for you, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like it's I I just think of it like that.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I think for me, it's I it's automatic because I'm in the medical field, but it's like I think people need to really pause, is my point.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: Let's just all take a pause and think about what we're doing and why we're doing it, you know.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's too easy to get lost um with the information that's out there, and there is, I feel like right now there is such a thing as too much information because people, I feel like, aren't given the tools to process that information.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of, yeah, you might have the right data, but how are you evaluating that data and how are you processing it and applying it?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because that could be harmful too.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I you know, there was at one point, I think even now, um, people like to talk about where ingredients are in the ingredient list, in the um, you know, in the back of the product.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, that's fine.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, if there's a hint of how much of an ingredient is in a in a formulation.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we talked about this in another episode, but you just you still don't have enough information to know whether it works for you, um, how it's been formulated, how effective it is, you know, all of that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's not properly formulated, maybe it could hurt you.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's just I don't, I just I think if anything, in the you know, after the summer where I just educated myself on skincare and from talking to you especially, I've really kind of taken a step back and I was like, okay, I I need to look more into these marketing claims, more into what people are saying about products, because I felt like there's just so it's just so easy to be misled by things online.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: So true.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's so true, it's so easy.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I think a lot of I think that really has to do with why dermatologists have kind of backed away from the skincare industry, honestly.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: From if I just looking at it from a consumer standpoint, you know, here you are buying things that they know is not going to help you.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: So as a professional, looking at people just doing this repetitively and then watching their own practices suffer from this, you know what I mean?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then seeing like this massive movement around this basically products that they feel from their medical perspective isn't gonna are not gonna work.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's gotta be hard for dermatologists.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it's it really comes down to I think, you know, like goal, like what are what are the goals for dermatologists versus all of these different goals that skincare companies want to sell us, you know?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I you know, I've spoken to some dermatologists, so I I I can't speak on their behalf, but just the feedback I've gotten, most derms seem to be interested in genuinely skin health.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I think when, you know, I tread very lightly when I um say skin health because I truly don't know.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: This is not my area of expertise, it's just something I have, you know, we we read about it, we do our research and whatnot.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: But skin health, I think I want to say from a dermatologist's point of view, would be something like associated with, for example, UV protection, you know, um, making sure that your skin is not being predisposed to cancer and you know, you're not damaging it to the point where you really have barrier damage and things are getting into your dermal layer and you know, hurting it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, acne, for example, you know, and that because that is a like acne um popping up is an inflammatory reaction and it's really causing damage.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I think a lot of dermatologists are really focused on real skin concerns, you know, and if the feedback I've gotten from them about just normal people wanting an everyday routine that's like good for their skin health, most of the time they're gonna tell you wear sunscreen and use a vitamin A derivative that works for your skin.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: That's usually what they're gonna tell you, and so you know it almost leaves this feeling for me at least of unsatisfaction, I wanna say.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've been so trained by the skincare community and the industry to want all these products, yes, and have I I don't feel complete, I'm not gonna lie to you, yeah, until I use that essence or until I use that, you know, that one product.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_04: And to accept that it might be useless, that's hard for me.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's very hard.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and you're and you're right, because I think uh so the goal of Durham's is skin health, but the goal of skincare companies is uh an attainable poreless perfection on a perfection, yes.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what it is.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my mom's a doctor, and it I've always had this issue.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ever since I was, you know, younger, I think we've talked about this again.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love putting stuff on my face, and even she was like, What are you doing?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: All you need is like, you don't need anything for your face, you know, as long as there's no cuts and stuff, or you don't have like active perpetual acne, um, it's fine.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what I would be interested to know if if dermatologists consider uh acne scars and hyperpigmentation as like a cosmetic thing or a sign of like bad health?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: I that's a really good question.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_04: And um, we're going to have, by the way, for everyone listening, we will have Dr.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Natalia Spearings on here.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_04: She's an amazing dermatologist.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna actually ask her that, or you know, we can ask her that because I want to say yes.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're gonna think I'm I want to say that they look at hyperpigmentation and these concerns as um serious because I know that just from my past, you know, conversations, I've heard them say, well, there's so many different types of hyperpigmentation, there's so many ways to deal with hyperpigmentation, you know what I mean?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like they they really look at this stuff and they say there's different um procedures and different kinds of techniques you can use to combat these issues.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, in terms of cosmetic versus plastics or versus dermatology, that's a that's a gray area for me too.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm not too sure.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I want to say dermatology, I would I would want to say dermatology.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think I like that term the most.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, all of these terms, because yeah, dermatology really encompasses almost everything in my mind, you know, like like cosmetics are everything.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you know what?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I also I'm very interested in hearing uh Dadalie's opinion on is skin fluencer culture and uh the role that they play in uh the online culture of how we consume skincare and also how aestheticians fit fit into the skin.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like at certain points I hear very different things from aestheticians who are supposed to be trained in skin and have a license and potentially answer to a licensing board than I hear from derms.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: So who should we be looking to for guidance?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's that question is I think so, so difficult these days to answer.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I if I were to look for advice, I think for me it's like always a dermatologist.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how others feel about it, but I see here's the thing, and I don't want to knock any aestheticians out there, you know.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: If I I have respect for everybody in this community because I think we we all need to kind of do what we think is the right approach, right?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: For skin health, for skincare.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: But there's a huge difference between like going to like medical school and then going to like a almost I don't want to say trade school, but like just a more focused area of study where you're just learning about, you know, for example, this and that's it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and I would like to say skin fluencers should just get out of the picture, like there's no room for skin influencers because I mean in in terms of like the medical aspect, you know what I mean?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like the actual, like the and that's what I mean by that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: I don't mean like you know, obviously then it is very important for us to know how things work, you know, in the real world.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: And skin fluencers are some of the best people for that because they're gonna give you their opinion, they're gonna tell you how it works for them.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, as far as aestheticians and doctors, like I just I don't know.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's really I think we have to like look at like what level of training we want the person to have, right?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's like if I have an extremely weird lesion on my skin, I'm not gonna go to an aesthetician.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: I want to be like, I need to go to a dermatologist immediately, or you know, some sort of medical professional.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm not gonna lie, I love getting a facial, and some of the best facials are done by aestheticians, like hands down, you know what I mean?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like, and a lot of these med spas and clinics, you know, that are skincare uh oriented, I guess, they usually have aestheticians, right?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're the people working there.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think so, yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like I think it's it's kind of like a it needs to be a like an effort, you know, it needs to be like a like a joined effort, I think, between the medical community and aestheticians.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I know there's a lot of uh polarization actually, because um, I think both fields don't understand each other.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's my honest opinion.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like aestheticians, I don't think they understand derms, and I think derms don't understand aestheticians, yeah.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: So but yeah, interesting.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, interesting.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to the idea of spending um, you know, the same amount of money that you would spend on here and just going to get a procedure done to absolutely get the result that you're looking for, I think it's interesting.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That part of the marketing tactic for skincare companies is that they create this illusion that you're spending less money for the same results.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: 100% agree with that.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: They want us to believe that this$50 serum that we're gonna buy is going to be all the money we're ever gonna need to spend.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: This is it, no, nothing else is needed in your life.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's so not true.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like I I know, like as women, I I just want to say, like, as women, we I think every woman at on some level loves to shop.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: So if you give us something beautiful, beautiful packaging, beautiful, yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or even just the experience of using it.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I think you know, I feel like when I say that for Heen, I feel like it's such a cop out when I say, Well, I just really enjoy the experience of using this because truly, what is the experience that I'm having?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm rubbing something on my face.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the entirety of this experience that we're talking about.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, but it's real though.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's true, you're right.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yes, I mean, it's so true.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: Putting on the face masks and going through the ritual of, you know, oh, I'm masking tonight.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's really stupid.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's so silly because really, what is it doing?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very short-term effect.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's been no research that's shown that doing a face mask gives you any sort of benefit except like a short-term hydration effect to your skin.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, good.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: So you just gave your skin like a it's like what we were talking about with getting out of the shower.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I feel so hydrated.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_04: I feel so hydrated.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I it's almost like a um placebo effect in a way, you know.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: You put the sheet on your face and it just sits there for 20 minutes and then you take it off, and you look different.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_04: You do, you look more hydrated.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's it's true.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: I still like doing it.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: I am still gonna cheat.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: We I'm probably gonna do it tonight.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna lie.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm probably going to, it's gonna be a masking night for me for sure.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I'm masking, there's several masks involved.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no just all oh yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Multi-masking is a hashtag that I very much follow.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, yeah, because once you start, you can't stop, right?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: This is what people with no children do.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Obsessive.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: This is what happens when you're in your 30s and have no kids.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: You invest all of your money into something you don't even know if it works, but you know, it's like invest, quote unquote invest, but really money down the drain.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think we keep saying this, but we really need to talk about the verbiage that we use in skincare, like investing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, we do.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like, honestly, like some of these words are so ridiculous and such high claims.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I mean, you're not going to it, you know.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think, for example, like when um Peter Thomas Roth came out with this 24 karat gold facial mask, it was a sheet mask.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it is, I think the product's still out in the market.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: Sheet mask that's infused.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I don't know how you infuse an element into a mask.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I really don't know how that works scientifically, but I believed it wholeheartedly, and I bought a bunch of these, and it was like the most unnecessary purchase because it did nothing for my skin.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, you're Indian, and anything that says 24 karat, you're gonna buy.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: My sirens are already like going off.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_04: Every time I'm 24 carat gold, yes.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: Please sign me up for this.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, anything 24 carat.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll I'm first in line.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Anything 24 karat and Indian says coal eyeliner.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: I completely, yeah.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's and you know, it's like I remember buying this product and using it multiple times.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I used it, I was like, my skin got no benefit from this whatsoever.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I would look in the mirror and I would be like, Yeah, I don't feel like this did anything for me.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I found myself always going back because I the whole again, quote unquote experience of using this product was so intense and it's good for me because it's like, you know, you get off of work and you know, I I know we're we all stressed out, we do skincare because it feels good on your face.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost like a massage for your face, you know?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: And and but it the thing is that we have to learn to admit that that's what we need for, you know what I mean?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like instead of like hiding behind this idea that, yeah, well, this is actually this is really gonna prevent, you know, those fine lines or whatever our skin concern is.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: We have to be able to say, as women or as people, really, everybody that does skincare.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, we we we just like the experience and we like the feeling of this thing sitting on our face.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we like the feeling of patting our skin instead of rubbing it, you know what I mean?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like these things are just they're like ritualistic, you know, yeah, habits, right?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: So very true, very true.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean, I I I think we consume skincare differently these days because even past, um, like you said, along with the experience, the even past, like what it claims to do and what it actually does, and the experience of using it, I think we like to do it because um we want to kind of be part of the community, we want to talk about it.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: At least that's true for us content creators, but also I feel like each product that's out in the market right now has a story, like it's no longer just claims, it has a backstory, and we want to participate in that.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we want to consume the story of that product.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's why there's release videos, that's why there's like this huge, lengthy two-page essay on the origin of the product.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: And well, you know those um, you know, the diphora, like I mean, uh these always those little paragraphs about what your experience is about to be.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like immerse yourself in a you know, like sensory, like I don't even know.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna BS it, you know, but like I it's so intense.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: And these I will say though, these writers are so good.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: You guys are really doing a great job.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're selling the crap out of this product.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like you really are, and you know, yeah, you're right.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's a two-page essay, uh, it's a novel about why you need this in your life, right?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and you know, I posted about this today, but you know, the so another creator um brought to my attention that Niode or is Neo, Niode had a Sanskrit seponens, I hope I'm saying that right, uh, skin cleanser.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a cleansing bomb or a cleanser.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's a there's a whole host of issues associated with it, a lot of cultural appropriation and just misrepresentation of Ayurveda and all of that.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it was interesting because I went on the site and it was literally like a huge like story about a cleanser, right?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that why do we need this?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's very intense.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's very intense, but it's the marketing because it's just another cleanser, but you have to put all this backstory and exoticize ingredients and give it like this um otherworldly.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're gonna have a spiritual experience if you use this type of thing to sell because to set it apart, more or less, right?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: Not it's not it's insanity, you know what I mean?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like you don't need, and I completely agree with you.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_04: I personally I love Neoda, I really do enjoy them as a company.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it well, I want not even say a company, I enjoy their products, the ones I've tried.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_04: But this one, no, I haven't I haven't even seen it, but I'm pretty sure I would be have the same reaction you did to it because I'm really tired of seeing that whole, you know, it's a cleanser, you know.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a cleanser.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's a cleanser.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_04: You can wash your face with nothing and it's fine.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's not you're not going to change your life, nothing is going to happen overnight with a cleanser, you know.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_04: Even for those of us who love immediate results, most likely you're not gonna see it after you wash your face.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's no difference between cleanser A, B, and C.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's always the same.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so right.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cleanser, the price of cleansers are freaking skyrocketing.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are we up to?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so double cleansing, there in itself, you're doubling the amount of products that you're using just to cleanse your face, and then the price of each cleanser has gone up.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're expected to spend between$40 and$60 per step on a cleanser that is literally going down the drain.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because the average price of cleansers right now is around in the 30s.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're absolutely right.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it's, you know, you do a double, you put a double cleanse in that, and that's$60 just to wash your face.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: So then you have another like$600 worth of serums you need to put on your face.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: You need it in your life.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, now you're looking at a nightly face worth a thousand dollars.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, isn't that crazy to think about?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's that's craziness.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, it well, I shouldn't say that because you know, I'm very, very guilty of it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, you know, my entire there's really nothing crazy happening.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I still have the same breakouts, and my skin pretty much looks I'm still aging, Bernine.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm still aging, even though I've invested so much of my money and time.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I should have taken the money that I spent on skincare, put it in like I don't know, an SP 500 or whatever, and then in five years take that money out and like invest in cosmetic procedures.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: For no, for real, though.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: That's like true skincare investments.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: When I moved, when I so I recently moved for everybody out there listening, I recently well, we both recently moved actually.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we've both been moving, and I know when I moved, I sent for Heen a snapshot of just my skincare I was taking with me.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: And when I did that, I kid you not, Fraen, I stood there for a solid minute and was like, Ecto, what has your life come to?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on redundancy, you know what I mean?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was like literally five hyaluronic acid serums, five collagen boosters you know, it was nuts.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: And going through my skincare like that, it really made me kind of step back for a minute and go, you know, the next time I really don't like something on my face that can be altered in terms of like not, I mean, I'm not into like plastic surgery, but if it can be done as a cosmetic procedure, I think I'm going to opt for that because I know that when I walk out of that clinic, what I wanted to happen actually happened to my face.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, it's I I it really made me think.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: It really did.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because I mean I I showed you the box, it was full.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: It was full, it was full, yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Same here, and it's and I did a huge declutter before I left, and you know, between the products I received in the last month alone, um, it's it's back to being full.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've really made a conscious effort to stop accepting any more PR because I feel like even before I started receiving PR, I used to spend a lot of money on skincare and makeup.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was just kind of a hobby, it was something that I like to do, but I felt like PR fuels your spending even more.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you think you would spend less money if you get free product.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's completely the opposite.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: You end up spending more money because you feel like, okay, well, um, yes, I got this product, but then you're like, oh, I really like this company.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go see what else they have.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you end up buying more crap that you don't need.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: No, I completely agree with you.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's so interesting because, you know, most of the I know you and um Sarah had brought this up in your in your guys' talk that, you know, like in terms of just being kind of overwhelmed when companies start to reach out to you and like, you know, oh my gosh, is this happening?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I know she had said that.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: She was like, I is this really happening.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that is the feeling we get, you know what I mean?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's like in like people on Instagram that are starting to get PR or whatnot.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so then we start getting hyped up and we're like, well, I want to review this product and this product and you know, yeah.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that causes you to spend money and it causes you to like, you know, uh dive into an area, and that's really what skincare is.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a rabbit hole.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: You can find anything you want for any skin concern, and so it's dangerous, it's a slippery slope.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: It really is.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: It really is, yeah.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such an easy trap to fall into as well.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because I I think as soon as you get into, oh, how do I form this brand relationship?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is so easy to be like, oh, I'll spend my money and review more of their products, but you know, that should that's really not what you should be doing.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I see a lot of people out there doing that.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: One to establish brand um relationships and also to perpetuate it.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um even kind of aside from, I mean, if I buy something, I unless I really like it or really hate it, I typically only talk about it in stories.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really do, you know, free advertisement for companies because they don't need it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: They're already advertising, like literally everywhere, all the time.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and and the thing is, like I think like as influencers and content creators, we need to, I'm so glad to hear you say that you're cutting back on your PR because yeah, being selective about PR and being selective about what we want to promote.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think we're I think there's gonna definitely be a change and we're gonna see a difference because I already see people being picky about what they you know post about.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I already like the the influencers I follow that I actually enjoy, you know, like yourself and you know, I know there's a bunch of people that I, you know, I look at you guys' feet like regularly.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like I'm seeing that there's a huge change in kind of direction with what's being promoted at this point.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: So um I would love to actually see, you know, it's coming back to our topic about cosmetic surgery and um you know derms and whatnot.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_04: I would love to see more dermatologist, truly dermatologist-backed lines.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: And when I say that, I don't mean like, you know, like putting a doctor's name on a line.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean like really uh an active dermatologist that speaks about why these products work.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I would love to see that.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we're I want to say that we're heading in that direction because there's definitely I'm noticing more derms on Instagram, you know.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so so so happy that there are more dermatologists on um on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, because I think it's a space that they need to desperately enter and inject some um sense and yes, pun unintended, but maybe it was appropriate.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um just get some information that truly we can depend on and rely on.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's like a false misconception uh that you know doctors like to push pills and like to sell you on expensive procedures.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I have admit, I mean, in in my, you know, 20 however 30 plus years of going to the doctor and having doctors in my family and knowing friends who are doctors such as yourself and people I grew up with, that was never, I mean, no one I knew was like that.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, I myself have to remind myself to kind of cut back on all of this and really figure out, okay, what is the goal?
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: What am I doing with my skin?
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then go to a a specialist or dermatologist to get the results that I want.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that, you know, um, it's it's I think it's a culture that needs to be um kind of or not even a call, it's it's a thing that needs to be propagated, I think.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think um, you know, content creators and influencers, I think, you know, going back to the skin influencers' role in the skincare community, um, you know, maybe do a little bit more uh ref like you know, hey, let me direct you to where you should go.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I might not know, but I'm gonna direct you to this dermatologist I really like.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_04: Or I might not know the answer to that, but I'm gonna tell you about this cosmetic surgeon I saw on Instagram the other day.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, those kind of things I think we have to come off this, like, you know, um, like you and I aren't really doing this.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_04: You're right, we're not I mean, I never see either of us doing it, but like, you know, I think as skin fluencers, content creators, we have to get to a point where it's like, I'm gonna pass the baton to a professional because this is where my knowledge has reached its limit.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, just recognizing that on its own, I think is a it's a very um it's a hard thing for a lot of people.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: And it is I understand why.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I understand why you want to feel like you know what you're talking about, and I get it, but you know, yeah, I agree.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: So just to round things out, um, I love that we did this.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_04: I always love our our our talks.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_04: We always have such a good time.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I love I love that we brought up uh cosmetic surgery and plastics because um I hope that we were able to diffuse some of the stigma you know around these words because I know how scary they sound.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, anytime you attach surgery to something, it's like, oh god, you know, it's it's scary.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_04: So um my hope with this episode is that you know we've given listeners something to think about, you know, that it's not as as scary as you might think.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying go out there and do it, I'm just saying look into things, you know.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think dive deep, like look into what you want.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, what are the what are the concerns you have and really what are all the options?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because sometimes skincare might not be the answer, you know?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_04: And that's okay.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's not a bad thing.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to really examine where you're getting your idea of what your skin should look like.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, are we going past skin health?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think if you are trying to pursue skin health, then yes, I I think that's a valid goal.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are trying to pursue this poreless perfection, I mean, no one's gonna have poreless skin.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think everyone, I mean, me included, like we really need to check ourselves in in terms of what we really expect human living skin to do because it's not gonna look like an Instagram built.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's not, and you know, you're gonna sweat and your pores are gonna be huge, and that's just life, you know.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that is life, but yeah, this was so much fun, and I'm so glad you guys all joined us for another episode.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm loving this podcast.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we're really, I think, bringing up a great um variety of topics for Haine.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: I'm yes excited that we're doing this together.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I me too.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited for your interview with uh Natalie.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so so excited.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: I she's such a great speaker, and she has such a world of knowledge, and I feel like she has the tools to and she has the understanding of what's happening in the Instagram space to really give us another uh viewpoint.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: She really does.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_04: I completely agree.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_04: She's I I'm excited.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you guys just stay tuned.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_04: We have a lot of cool stuff coming up um in the near future.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: But thank you for joining us for another episode, and we will talk to you next time.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_04: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:04:07
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  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.