Latest / Minnows Football / Matchweek 8: Quick hitters from two Championship derbies, Norwich mayhem and more
Transcript
- Sam: Welcome to the Minnows Football Podcast. It's Thursday, September 24. I'm your host, Sam Martin. Back again for another episode of Minnows Football. Check us out at MinnowsFootball.com. Have a look at the belief index there. And we've got a few quick hitters this week because we're entering the international break. We've rounded up the first segment of the championship for this year, and we're going to have plenty of opportunity over the next few weeks to dig into some of the bigger storylines that are going on around the league. lots of time before games begin again, I think around October ninth. And so I wanted to just take this chance to talk about the last round of games, match week eight, that is in the books, and talk about what we saw from that day, which was was quite a few things and and yeah, kind of go from there. So let's start with a couple of derbies to get us going. First one, Wolverhampton won West Brom Zero, the Black Country Derby. Now I didn't realize this. I knew that these two teams were rivals. didn't realize that they were so close, only eleven miles apart in the West Midlands, and also didn't realize that this is actually a derby between three teams. So it could be a black country derby if it's West Brom, Wolverhampton, or Walsall. There were a few seasons at the beginning of this century, the end of the twentieth century, that where all three clubs were in the same division, but it's been a while since that's happened. And so this week we had the one hundred and sixty-fourth Black Country Derby. And the tension and gravity of just the occasion was a little bit let down by the goal, and the way the goal happened. Maybe we just start with the goal. The goal was just this gift from West Brom, who had played reasonably well, I thought, until that point to really stay in the game. They were kind of it was clear in the first half that Wolves were gonna push incredibly hard and were maybe a class above, but Max O'Leary had a great game in goal. and West Brom looked really organized at the back, which was why I was even more surprising when Phillips tried to turn it back to Max O'Leary right in front of goal and Lopez pounces on that, scores his fifth goal of the season. probably his easiest goal of the season as well. But Wolves is starting to show some of their class in in these games and just that they're a little bit above their opponents. You got guys like Kieran Trippier in there who I thought had a really nice first half in this game, just had a few moments where a play could either break down and wasn't going to go anywhere, or a chance wasn't going to be created, and he got involved and he created that chance and he kept that play going and he showed that class of why they bring in a player like that to try and and improve your chances of going up for the next year because it's really these are the games that at the end of the season really matter in terms of promotion, winning the one the game the the derby one-nil rather than going nil-nil and losing those two points. So it was a tense battle. Both teams were pretty organized. West Brom were probably a little outclassed but hung in really well. And you know for West Brom When you look at where they're sitting at the as we enter this international break, and we'll go into kind of the storylines next week of of each of these different clubs in more depth, but they're sitting near the top of the table. They weren't expected to be near that in in this this season. There's plenty of time, obviously, still to go, but they'd be pretty happy with how they're entering, exiting this this period and and entering the international break. So an interesting game there. The more thrilling derby though was most definitely the Dockers derby. And that's that ended up with Millwall two, West Ham two at the den. And for those who don't have a history of this, it's a it's a really it's not just an interesting rivalry. It's one of the most dramatic rivalries, not just in the sport of football, but in in all sport, in terms of the roots of it and how long it's been going and and really how meaningful the the kind of combativeness of this rivalry is. So it's not just it's not just a rivalry like the black country derby where it's it's based on geography and the results on the pitch. This is really around things like economic warfare, class, identity, mythology. There's been real blood spilled over the 150 years of rivalry between these two clubs. Now these both these clubs obviously in London, but they are both founded by rival dock workers. And those dock workers would compete for the same contracts. So the founding of the rivalry is basically that the West Ham Dockers and the and the Millwall dockers would be fighting for the same contracts and the and the money to come in for them to unload and load these ships. And so when they won those contracts, that was taking directly taking dollars out of the hands or food out of the mouth, if you want to get really dramatic, of their rivals. And that's where we we begin this rivalry in the late 1800s. There are all these other moments in the mythology from the nineteen twenties when the Millwall dockers allegedly crossed a West Ham picket line. so there's labor disputes in there. You obviously then have the hooliganism of the seventies and the eighties, where the Millwall's Bushwhackers firm versus West Ham's ICF, their inner city firm, would clash a number of deaths out of that. That's all been really well documented by, you know, different documentaries and books, but you know, really meaningful clashes in those times of intense violence around football fandom. And then more recently, some really dramatic games, like the Mother's Day Massacre of 2004, where Millwall was up against West Ham. West Ham were Premier League bound, but they still beat them 4-1 at the Den. Big riots ensued after that. And then the Upton Park riot in 2009 and a League Cup tie that just went absolutely crazy with multiple pitch invasions. a stabbing after the game. So this is this is a really this is a a rivalry with so much at stake. And you could tell by the fact that the London police deployed 400 police officers to the game. And luckily everyone seemed to behave themselves and they left the animosity on the pitch. And on the pitch we got this phenomenal game. Jake Cooper's five hundred five hundredth appearance for Millwall. And you know when Millwall's rolling there are a few teams in the championship in in my viewing that look better. They're so physical. They can be so dominant. And it's kind of crazy then that they didn't go on and win this game. But that's kind of how what we've seen from the team in the first eight games of this season, that they can start really well but often fade out. And so we saw in the first half two great goals from long throws from Lyndon Dykes. It was a classic Linden Dykes game, by the way. He had these moments of brilliance and you know, set up both goals with with long throws. He also had moments where he like tried to dribble through defenders and just turned the ball over immediately or skied it over the the top bar. So it was a classic kind of up and down game from him. But their two goals came from these long throws. Millwall really used their physicality in the box to outmuscle defenders. came out super hot and really dominated the first half of the game. The goal that Sykes almost scored on on the stroke of halftime would have been, if not the goal of the year, well, if not the goal of the century, at least the goal of the year. It was phenomenal. Struck it from about twenty meters outside of the box and went like an absolute bullet and struck the top of the crossbar and was super dramatic and it really emblemized like how how much Millwall was dominating that game. And then classic story for Millwall, they Come out in the second half. And I can't work out yet. This is something I want to dig into over the next week, looking at some of the analytics and reading a little bit more about it. But I can't work out of Millwall in these losses or draws, wins that become draws or wins that become losses. Are they shutting down or are they switching off? Because th those two things are very different things. One is an issue of mental fortitude, and one's an issue of kind of moral fortitude or bravery. There's something in them though, which says that they they either become too defensive in these second halves when they have leads, or they just mentally go away and and stop focusing and lose whatever was driving them in that first half. And so I think that's the big work for Alex Neal to do in this international break is figure out how are we going to play the full 90 minutes in these games. And are we doing something strategically or tactically? That is actually doing us a disservice when we're having these leads, or if we're playing really well and watching our class. The other game I think of that really stands out to me from the first eight games for them where this happened was Southampton, where they really dominated the ball in the first 20 minutes and then it all all of a sudden turned around. I think they scored a goal. They're up one nothing. I think they ended up losing four one. and what is going on to cause that turnaround? Are they getting exposed by opponents? Are they too simple and the opponent can break them down? What is going on there? But something is happening. And they're up against a really quality opponent. and West Ham just kind of kept working away at them. And the first goal back from West Ham by Conte was a it was a great first goal, shot from out of the box. But there were millwall players everywhere. They're the all through the box, and no one was really pushing and there wasn't a lot of of work on the ball. And you just kind of felt at that stage that the momentum had already shifted. And when they scored that first goal to be just down two one West Ham, I thought at least that, you know, this is gonna be this'll be remarkable if West Ham doesn't win this game. And sure enough, six minutes later, they score. Maverano scores and his celebration, you could just really see so much emotion in that celebration to tie it up and I think that was obviously partly the derby. This derby is something that really means something to the players, to the fans, and they love being part of something which is so much bigger than them. It's bigger than the season. It's bigger than the game, the sport. And they love that. And they they really respond well to that. It's also there's West Ham is on this mission. And you can see that in the way that they continue to be so relentless on the ball. They are on this mission to get out of the championship this year and that has be seemingly been really drilled in well to them by Nuno. And so there's there's a l was a lot in that celebration. It's fantastic to see. The stands went crazy. Two goals in six minutes. I at that stage I was like, they're definitely gonna lose this game. But Millwall to their credit held up. Almost stole it. in fact at the end. There was the Conte red card. but couldn't couldn't convert and then It's probably it's a maybe a dis dissatisfying ending for a neutral because you you know, you want to see someone win, but it's probably if you weighed the game up on its entire merits, maybe the right result. But anyway, great derby, great game. It's what makes the game and the league so unique, and was great to see. So the next game, Norwich City three, Bolton four. There is no more exciting or frustrating team right now than Norwich City. They can score from anywhere. They can also concede from anywhere at any time. the goals that they scored against Bolton were as dramatic as the concessions were soft. You know, it's it's a tough position that I think Canaries fans find themselves in right now because Philip Clemente is a guy that you can really tell if he's your manager, you want to believe in a manager like this. And we see this in all of sports. Someone comes in and is innovative in a way that creates a product that from an attacking perspective on the pitch, on the field, on the court, whatever it might be, is different and unique when put up against other teams or other players that are that are out there. And you say, I wanna, I want to reward that. I want to be part of of something that's innovative and and that is entertaining and exciting. But entertainment for a fan can only take you so far. And so when you look at the goals that Bolton scored, do those goals outweigh the excitement of the way that Norwich City played? I think in this game it's pretty unequivocal that it does not. And then the result on top of that means that it definitely does not. And if you look at the winning goal from Bolton, it was just so soft. Like Edo had this a ton of time on the edge of the box. No one is putting any pressure on him whatsoever. He has time to just calmly take the ball from. He looks on the right foot and he's like, it's not, there's nothing really over there. He just calmly puts it back on the left foot, still no pressure. there's some room there. And scores a goal from from outside of the box. And with it was as if it was just him and the keeper there. And It was a really tough look. And I think a lot of the goals that Bolton scored in this game, credit to Got Bolton for coming out. We'll talk about them in a second. but credit credit to them for coming on the road and getting this victory. But it was they were the goals are are just too soft, against Norwich. And I went and listened to the press conference with Clemente after the game. And I think that's a highly frustrating press conference if I'm a Canaries fan. He he says things like, It's a frantic, it was a frantic game today. It was a frantic game in every sense. That's really funny. That's the same word that I've been using on this show to describe Norwich City over the last three or four weeks. And so why are they remaining so frantic? Those are things that are within s partly at least within your control as the manager to dictate the way that your your team is playing. And Clemente's answers as to why it was frantic. He kind of blamed that on the disruption of midweek games. It meant that he was locked into making certain substitutions at certain times. it just seemed like he was scrambling for excuses and there wasn't a ton of accountability that came through that felt really genuine. You know, he said things like it's about being aggressive on the ball. and that's true, but like, how are you going to coach that? You're clearly not coaching that at the moment. You know, Clemente's defensive philosophy is basically that he's gonna have this incredibly high press and he's gonna be incredibly aggressive. He wants his attackers to be the first line of defense truly. And so when play breaks down, he wants them to press and get that ball back right away. And if they don't, he wants that midfield to also press. But then he wants the midfield and the attackers to, if both those lines break down, get back incredibly quickly and also help defending in the box. Well, he doesn't have he either doesn't have the right midfield and attackers to do that, or he's expecting too much out of his squad, or that message is not getting through, because you're not seeing a ton of aggression from my viewing. You're not seeing a ton of aggression to get back or to to get the ball. And there is a growing chorus of voices, Norwich City fans, who are demanding that he switches his strategy and focuses a little bit more on on being pragmatic. And So that's that's gonna be what really defines this next period for Norwich City. You know, they've got this couple of weeks here. Can they get out and organize themselves and come up with a plan that either teaches the players they've got to play the way that Clemente wants or that alters the way he wants to play so it fits better the squad. That's really all that matters. And when Clemente was asked about this in the postmatch press conference. He kind of waved it away and said, Well, we've got so many guys going on international duty, there's not so much that we can really do in this period. And I just wonder if this is the kind of manager who is going to talk his way out of a potentially great situation. You know, when you think about what are the teams that are every Saturday you want to turn on and watch as a neutral. Norwich City's right up there. They're so exciting to watch. They break so quickly. They play with such fluidity on attack. It'd be such a shame for him to not see that and say, Okay, well, I want to be able to keep playing this way, but I need to find a way to make it sustainable. At the moment, it feels like we're just careening away at Norwich City towards a brick wall. And that brick wall will eventually come and and fans and ownership will get tired of conceding four goals in a game. And that will be the end of it. So anyway, so much to do if for Norwich City over the break and so many things for their fans to ponder. Bolton, on the other hand, like we don't want to overindex on one or two games, but th I think there's so many positives to come from the last couple of weeks of of Bolton's performances. The last the three games before these last two games, they lost all three of them. And then win against Cardiff City two weeks ago, big win against Norwich. this week. And Steven Schumacher likes to preach this idea of resilience and toughness. And that's what a promoted club has to show. And so far this year, with the exception probably of Cardiff City, from Bolton and Lincoln, we've seen resilience and toughness. And we've seen them both show up and show that they're they're not overawed by what's in front of them. And there's no better way to do that than to To win a game where your opponent scores three goals. He found they found so many ways to attack Norwich's midfield in this game and break them down and show that they can put away chances. And for a promoted club, they seem to have a few things that that really stand out. They have some versatility tactically. they were able to pretty quickly diagnose mid game. I'm sure they already had a lot of great plans going into the game, but mid game they're able to diagnose, okay. This is where Norwich City's falling down. This is where we'll be able to attack. And then they've got this depth on their bench, which you don't usually associate with a team that's been promoted from League One. But Edo, for example, who comes on in the 69th minute and scores the winner is great and has a lot of of great class and skill. And he's coming off their bench. And I don't know. It just feels like it's shaping up for Bolton in a in a to be a season with a lot of positives, potentially. They're in fifteenth now. They're a couple of spots above Norwich. And if you listen to Schumacher's press conference afterwards, he's really excited about where this club's going. So more to come, obviously, about them in the next couple of weeks, but a fantastic result away to Norwich for Bolton. And then the last quick hit game I wanted to get in from the weekend, Wrexham 2, Southampton 1. And I just wanted to I wanted to hit this because, you know, we had the drubbing of West Ham of Wrexham, sorry, at West Ham last week. And so they were in a position this week where there was a lot of anticipation around this game. Definitely from Wrexham fans, but also from the broader public around, well, what if they were to get drubbed again, which is Definitely a possibility when you're coming up against Southampton. What would that mean for Phil Parkinson? You'd then be going into this break with a lot of negativity around the club. And one thing that I think is dangerous is when owners and management have time to think. And you've got these three weeks here. And if you had time to think, you could easily see a scenario where Wrexham management and owners were looking at a potentially free falling team. And saying, what are we gonna do? What levers do we need to pull to get this team going back in the right direction? And against a team like Southampton, you could see, you know, that kind of disastrous back to back result potentially happening. Now, the good news for them is Southampton played a really up and down game here. I don't know if they were looking ahead to the Eckett ruling, which is allegedly coming here in the next, you know, thirty minutes or an hour or so. I'll check in before we wrap up the podcast here in a few minutes. But I don't know what they were looking ahead to or if they'd had a they had a slightly shorter week and things were off, but the whole game, the rhythm of the whole game felt off. f especially from Southampton. It felt a lot like a lot of the Wrexham games to start this season, which is kind of up and down, not having a ton of fluidity through the play, but having enough class, especially up front, to snag a goal or two. That's what happened. Keefer Moore scored a great goal from a From a header in the the first half. It was an incredible header. Like he was kind of faded, falling back away from goal, put it up and into the corner, the only place it could really go without getting saved by the goalkeeper. And so that was that was great. He's a talismanic talisman, to put it poorly. he really feels up and down, and the the team at the moment kind of rides up and down with guys like that, Wrexham. I think they need to find a way to kind of smooth the whole thing out a little bit, and play with with a little more a little more pace and rhythm. But that was the that was the pace of the game. In a game like that, you just want to win. Southampton came back, they scored, they had basically all the running in the second half, and it looked like it was heading to a pretty unsatisfying draw until I think it was the eighty seventh, eighty eighth minute or so, and it was a sloppy goal that kind of summed up the sloppiness of the affair, but Callum O'Hare went into the into the box. a cross was driven in and I don't know if it came off the goalkeeper or the the defender or O'Hare, but anyway it found its way in and it was an absolute joy for everyone at the race course and it felt cathartic in a way for them to be able to put the pain of the West Ham loss behind them. But you know in a way that these are two clubs that are really looking over their shoulders. Like you've got Wrexham thinking, Okay, we we got that win back, but what is this team gonna look like coming out of the international break? Can we get back to those winning ways that we had at the start of last season and and obviously the three or four seasons before? On the Southampton side, they're looking over their shoulders to see what's gonna happen with Eckert and is he going to receive the kind of ban that that Biesa had about six or seven years ago, I think, where it was more of a fine and less of a of a time ban. Or is he gonna have the book thrown at him for Spygate? Is he gonna go and get a six or twelve month suspension or or something else? We don't know. but we will find out here in the next hour or two. Okay, so with that, we kind of enter the international break with some teams flying high, some teams up and down, some teams stagnant, some teams in hot water. And so over the next couple of weeks, we're gonna bring some content to you that's gonna take stock of those teams, where everyone's at, what they need to improve either on or off the pitch. And every club is obviously moving to their own sort of story right now. So we're gonna pull apart some of those stories, look at some of them in more detail. And also look at some of the other giant killing football stories out there from other leagues and cups as they get going here into October. And we're really getting into the the thick of it all. So until then, thanks for listening. Check out our belief index for after matchweek eight at MinnowsFootball dot com. And we'll see you next week.