Latest / Bleacher Report / Sue Bird Talks Caitlin Clark s Ceiling, Pushes Back on Media s WNBA Takes _ Taylor Rooks X

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Sue Bird Talks Caitlin Clark s Ceiling, Pushes Back on Media s WNBA Takes _ Taylor Rooks X · Bleacher Report

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Super and welcome back to the show.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 0:02
  Speaker 3: Always a pleasure to see you and so fun because
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: I get to talk to you at sort of these
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: different stages of your career. Because the last time we
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: did this show, the question was when are you going
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: to retire? Yeah, almost three years in, give me your
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: retirement assessment.
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: Woo, it's great. Like I feel like zoomed out. I
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: look on and I'm like, this is going well. But
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: it's weird. It's definitely weird. It's weird not playing. It's
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: weird not being an athlete. It's strange to have to
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: say I'm a former player as opposed to a current
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: So I'm still adjusting to that.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: But so far, so good.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: But you are so busy and so entrenched in so
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: many different things. Of course you aren't athlete right now,
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: but what do you think you are?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: If that makes sense?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it makes sutal sense. So this is what
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'm noticing.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: The way that I played the game as a point guard,
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I was setting things up, making sure people in the
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: right spot, you know, at the right time, making sure
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: we're running the playwright so everybody could be set up
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: for success. Like that was that really became my identity
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: as a player. I always had it, but then especially
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: you know in the last couple of years of my career,
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: and who does that in this media world a producer.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: So whether it's on the podcast that I'm doing and
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: other you know, whether it's in front of camera, behind camera,
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: I'm noticing that that like production part of my brain
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: is still coming out. So the point guard, I guess,
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: the point guard part of my brain is now coming
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: out in this like production way.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: What do you think is that trait? Meaning?
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Like I remember once I was listening to this interview
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: that he just Elba did and he was saying that
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: our jobs are just the ways that we translate our skills.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: So like, yes, you are like a producer or you
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: are a point guard, but there is an underlying trait
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: that allows you to be those things.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that trait? So I think for me
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: it's two things.
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  Speaker 4: One, I think this was just like how I was raised,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: probably just something innate that was inside of me that
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: then you know, through different coaches, you know, people who
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: saw it in me helped helped it grow. But I
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: think naturally I do like to make sure other people
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: are comfortable.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I think just naturally.
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  Speaker 4: That's that's like a part of like I said, like
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: the fabric of who I am, and then the other
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: part of it was having like I said, these coaches
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: people see that in me. And then what I started
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: to realize was, Oh, when I can help my teammates
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: be their best selves, that only makes me be able
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: to be my best self, not the other way around.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: That just never worked for me as a basketball player.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: I was never going to go out there and like
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: try to get mine and then figure out the other parts.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: It always had to be in the reverse order.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Make sure the team is flowing, and then that's where
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: my skill set could shine. So I guess you could
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: argue in a way, it's like selfish of me to
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: be unselfish.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the universe I understand that.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: So at what point, and not to be presumptuous, maybe
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: you always felt this way, But at one point in
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: retirement did you say I'm happy? You know, there's maybe
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: this thought of can I be happy without playing?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: I have always felt very fulfilled by my career. I
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: don't have many regrets. Of course, you're gonna always regret,
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: like the game you lost in you know, two thousand
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: and one in college when Notre Dame beat you in
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: the funnel four.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: So you're always gonna have what's the dates, You're always
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: gonna have those.
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  Speaker 4: But but but I mean, for the most part, I'm
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: incredibly fulfilled. When I look back on my career, I
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: played to the absolute end, but not too far where
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I looked crazy out there, you know, not too far
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: where people are like what is she doing out there?
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: But like right to the exact moment where I knew
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: it was time. So because of that, I don't really
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: have a big pull. Is it strange, like I said, yes,
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: because it's an adjustment, it's an identity, it's you're adapting.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: But I don't have a pull to get back out there.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: And in any real way. Every now and then it
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: rears its head, but not in any real way. So
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: I feel very lucky for that, to be honest, not
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: a lot of people have that. It's definitely a sense
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: of closure. But yeah, so in that regard, I am happy.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because what you're sort of speaking to also is
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: just the power of choice, Like you made this choice
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: as opposed to it being made for you for whatever
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: external reasons.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: What has retirement taught you about time?
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: That we are at the heart. We're all kind of
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: like our toddler versions. Like what do we always hear
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: about if you have people like my sister has kids.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: I don't have kids myself, but we all hear about
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: when people new parents are like, oh, I got to
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: keep the schedule, nap times at this time, they got
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: to eat at this time, and you're like, come on,
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: you can't. And then you get to a point for
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: me as a retired athlete where I didn't have a
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: schedule now and by the way, for the first like
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: six months, that was amazing. I got to just do
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: whatever I want, eat whatever I want, whenever I want.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: You know, sleep, don't sleep. It didn't matter.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: But then very quickly you realize I did. Anyways, having
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: a schedule it just allows for a lot. It allows
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: for and for me, it allows for peace, It allows
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: when you have a certain expectation of your day. It
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: allows me to settle in a little bit differently from there,
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: it actually allows for more creativity for me personally. It
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: doesn't feel as chaotic when I have a schedule. So yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: I realize I'm actually just a toddler.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, we all need to schedule. Yeah, I totally get it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I read this quote as we talk about age, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: you said that a doctor once told you that you
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: have the knee of a seventy.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Five year old.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think about what that knee will look like
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: when you're seventy five, when you're fifty? And I guess
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: what I'm really asking is this sort of trade off
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  Speaker 3: that you make with your body when you decide to.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Do what you do And if there's any fear.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: In that, Yeah, no fear. I don't feel that now.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: I don't remember feeling it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: While I was playing.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: It was always just about how can I get this knee?
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: It's my left knee, Like, how can I get this
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: thing in a place where I can play? Yeah, like,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: I'll do whatever I have to do to do that.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: There is a trade off in that, you know, I
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: can't straighten my knee all the way, I can't bend
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: it all the way. This is something Candace Parker and
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: I talk about all the time. We've got the we've.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Got our knees.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: They don't look that great, but they got us through.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: And you know there's certain ages and pains with that,
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: just in your daily life. Forget basketball in my daily life,
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: but when I do it the exact same all over again. Absolutely,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: and when I'm fifty seventy five whatever age, this thing
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: will probably be meddle by then I'll be getting a replaced.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: So it is what it is.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Shout out to Candas by the way she does all
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: She always has a knee joke. Yeah, every now and then,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: and we get one from Canvas. I want to talk
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to you just topically because the NBA Playoffs are going
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: on right now.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I have a few questions for you, mainly just about.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: The pacers, because I had a conversation with Tyrese Halliburton
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: doing the first round of the playoffs and he told
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: me that he has had extensive discussions with you about
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: when to be a facilitator versus when to be a score.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: How have you seen some of those conversations manifest for
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Tyrese Halliburn in the playoffs.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, clearly he's figured it out. Clearly he's figured
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: it out.
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  Speaker 4: I think my favorite part about watching Tyrese in this
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: run is, yes, the clutch play, the big moments, but
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: he's it's been a little up and down at times,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: and that's the reality. I think a lot of times
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: you talk about top players, you talk about all stars,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, you see their great play, but it
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: always comes with, you know, a bad quarter, a bad game,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: a bad stretch, and it's really how you respond to that.
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  Speaker 4: That's to me, that's always the differentiator between like good
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: players and great players who can respond to the tough
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: stretches because we all have them. And I think you're
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: seeing it in real time, not just in in series,
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: but in games where he maybe not has the best
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: stretch ever, but he's finding ways to win the game.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: He's hitting the big shot, he's finding his teammates. I
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: love the pace that they play with. Yeah.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: So Jenny Bussek, I'm gonna give a quick shout out.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: She's an assistant for the Pacers, has worked with Rick
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: both in Indiana and Dallas, but there was a time
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: there where she had worked with him, but then came
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: and was the head coach of the Storm and we
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: basically ran a lot of the same stuff, played a
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: very similar style, and so I have so much respect
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: for Rick, the staff, Jenny, and the pace that they
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: play with because they really do wear teams down. And
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: when we won in twenty eighteen and twenty, that's the
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: exact same mantra. So Tyrese had a quote at the
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: end of Game one, something to the effect of, you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: because they were down nineteen to the Knicks, and something
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: to the effect of, like we knew we would wear
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: them down, Like you have to play the long game,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: so even in those stretches, you're gonna wear them down eventually.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: And I'm a Nick fan, so this is difficult, but
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: if you watched the end of regulation in overtime, that's
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: essentially what happened. And that's exactly what we would say
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: when we were on our playoff.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Runs in the WNBA.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, so take me a little bit more into how
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: you all are using that pace to your advantage and
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: how you're seeing it for the Pacers'. Yeah.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: So, I think a lot of people can connect with
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: the idea that you're gonna wear a team down physically
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: by being physical, right, by being aggressive with them. Again
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: the physicality piece, and that usually comes in the form
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: of like bigger, stronger players, you know, maybe it's a
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: post player you have, or maybe it's just the way
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: you play defense, like you get up into people, and
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: I think people think, like, oh, they're gonna wear you
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: down because they're just physically dominating. There's a whole other
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: way to wear a team down and you never even
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: have to touch them, and it's by playing with this pace.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Whether it's picking up full court for forty eight minutes,
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: which I know the Pacers do, whether it's getting the
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: ball out quick, getting into transition. And then the other
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: part of pace is in the half court, again playing
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: with pace, but moving in a way that's read and react.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: And when you have a read and react offense that
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: you're comfortable in, you can play faster and it just
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: wears teams down. And you don't notice it in the
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: first quarter, and you don't notice in the second, you
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: probably don't notice in the third, but late in the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: fourth it's coming. Yeah, and we beat There'll be times
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: in the w Booth, the Seattle Storm, it'd be late
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: in the fourth and we'd be hearing the other team
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: breathe and we'd be like, we got them, Like keep going,
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: we got them.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: So when you're watching that game, you're not surprised about
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: what happens there in the fourth. You can see it coming.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: You can see it coming. You know, it doesn't mean
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: it's always gonna happen that way. But you can see
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: it coming because the Pacers, whether they're up ten down ten,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: they play the same and that's always going to catch up.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: It just is so you talk about what it does
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: to the opponent, but like, how do you have to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: keep up with that pace?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: What does it take out of you.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: That that starts in training camp? This isn't like you're
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: not like, okay, guys, today we're gonna run fast. Like
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: that's not you know, oh this game, we're gonna do that.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: That's not how it works.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: It is something that the same way you might work
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: on your three point shooting, the same way you might
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: work on and roll defense, you are working on your
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: conditioning to play at that pace literally every single day.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: In fact, I actually know the Pacers they had a
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: bit of a break from their last series to the
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: nixt series. Yeah, and that was something I know that
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: they were a little concerned about. You know, you have
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: this eight day it's hard to keep up that pace
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: in practice. Like who wants to run that much?
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: In games?
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: It's easy, right, but you have to. So that was
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: something I know that they were talking about.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: That is so fascinating. I want to bring up more
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of sort of.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: What Tyree said about that conversation with you because he
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: said to me, what I also talked to her about
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: is how sometimes your IQ can get in the way
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: of what the game needs from you.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, what do you think he means by that?
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Oh, man, your IQ can get in the way of
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: what the game may need.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Because it was.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Sort of in this context of Okay, you know, when
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: do I attack, when do I score, and when am
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I facilitating? But also when I am saying okay, but
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I know right now the right thing for me is
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: to make the past because that is.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: How I learned to play.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're saying, okay, but that's not what is
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: being called on for me right now. And I feel
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: like we're seeing so many moments where he is going
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: against what he's maybe been like taught because that's just
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: not what the situation is presenting.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: So basically, when you are a high IQ player, when
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: you have you know, and for Tyres, as you mentioned,
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: kind of figured out that balance as a point guard
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: between facilitating and then calling your own number in a
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: sense or are so being more aggressive? Yeah, you don't
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: just have to like call your own number, but just
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: being more aggressive. The part that you have to incorporate
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: into that, into that high IQ is the feel, and
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: that's really that's what's like dueling. It's dueling mindsets. So
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: the IQ might tell you, like you said, to do this,
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: but you have to feel the game simultaneously because the
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: feel of the game is really going to give you
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: an answer at certain times. And those two things, when
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: you can essentially marry them, that's a sweet spot.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how long did it take you to marry them?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, probably? I mean, like you always have.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: I feel like I always had a version of it,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: and it was almost like it didn't take me.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: It wasn't about mastering. It was about like refining year
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: after year.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: But I've always said it's like, to me, a prime
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: is when yours. It's like when your experience and your
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: understanding has excelled in a way usually based on age,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: but you haven't gotten too old where your physical starts, like,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: you know, sluffing off a little bit. So when those
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: two collide at the right time, that's when you've mastered it.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: That's when the refinement is at its best.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: And that's why towards the end of my career, probably
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: like the last like five six years, so late thirties
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: into my forties, I just knew if I could keep
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: my physical just at a certain point, I always said,
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not trying to beat father time.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just let me tie him. I could just stay
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: where I am.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: I knew my experience, my knowledge of the game was
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: only going to increase year by year. And that was
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: so that was really fun for me later in my
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: career to have that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I love that, and that makes sense.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: It's the pairing that really gets you to that ultimate,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: ultimate place you want to go. I mean, I love
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: just hearing you passing down the knowledge because you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Page says you're gatekeeping, So I mean, what what are.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: The hair products? What's going on? Are you not? Are
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you not sharing how to do the slick bag?
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I'm always a pay it forward type. She hasn't asked,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: You gotta ask, That's it.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: But key was their key.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: It was so simple.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, water and hairspray okay, and a really good you
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: know a lot of bristles brush if you will not
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: the ones that's going to get the knots out you need,
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean?
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of bristles. I answers, are there? He
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: knows it. Congratulations are in order.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: By the way, the first managing director of the women's
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: national team, I want to know what is the process
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: of obtaining that role? You know, we see the announcement,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: but I'm like, when do those conversations begin in what
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: was the genesis?
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so really quickly after I retired, I was on
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: the board directors for USA Basketball, So I was already.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: In the mix, like right away.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: And so for those that don't know, the men, they've
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: always had a managing director Jerry Colangelo Grant Hill now
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: has that role. But the women, we always did it
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: with a committee, so five or six people like essentially
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: get in a room and have the conversations on who's
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: going to be the coach, who's going to be on
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: the team. And so when I retired, we still had
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: the committee, and they were already in the swing of,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: you know, choosing a World cut team, World Cup team,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: which had just happened in twenty twenty two, and then
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: of course gearing up for Paris. So it wasn't the
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: time to change anything. Yeah, So the conversations at that point,
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: more so like going in to Paris, like into that year,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: was really just like, hey, do you.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Want to be on the committee. Is this something you'd
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: be interested in? And to be honest, at that point
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I was still too close.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just a little too close to it all,
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: and it didn't I didn't feel right for me to
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: be in that room. So that kind of it was
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: a quick conversation. Yeah, nothing Yeah, on the board of
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: directors were good.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: But then after Paris is really when the conversations around
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: moving to the managing director became like real. And I
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: think for USA Basketball it was just they had seen
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: how it worked out with the men, and they thought
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: it's time to switch the model for the women. And
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: then that's when conversations got more serious. I did initially
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: say I'm good. I like my life right now. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: don't need to add anything to other job.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: But the more I sat with it, and really the
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: more I had conversations with Grant and just hearing his experience,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: the good and the bad, right like the pros and
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: the cons, because of course there's going to be both,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: it just became clear that A I had a passion
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: for it, I was interested in it, there was a pull,
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: and then b that I was likely the right person
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: for it. And so the nomination, I would say around
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: shortly after the holidays, so let's call it sometime in January.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I gave the old call and I was like, to done, deal,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: let's do this.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Tell me more about that, why you're the right person
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: for it.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: So I obviously played USA basketball my entire career, so
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: I've played in every type of situation you could imagine,
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: not just Olympics, not just World Cups, training camps, qualifiers,
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: literally you name it. And I've just really been a
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: part of so many different experiences that I know I
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: can pull from, and I think, what, first of all,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: there's another part to this, which I do feel in
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: the totality of my career, I've gained.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: A lot of respect.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: And what that respect really is is I'm pretty consistent
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: in how I show up. I always put the winning
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: first and that's really all that matters, and I'm going
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: to do as a player. I was going to do
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: whatever the team needed for that, and I think I,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: like I said, just gained a lot of respect from
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: a lot of different people for that. And that kind
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: of tiptoes around integrity as well, which is a big
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: part of this position. But back to the playing part,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: of it. What I bring is just an understanding of
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: what it is to bring a group of really talented
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: players together and to figure it out and to win
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: gold medals. I have firsthand experience of that. I know
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: exactly what it takes. I know how hard it is,
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: and to be honest, I know how uncomfortable it can be.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: It can be a very uncomfortable experience.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I've already said this on record, It's probably the most
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: uncomfortable basketball I've ever played in my life.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Because we don't get a lot of training time.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: You don't get time to mesh to become a team,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: to develop that chemistry. You have to speed that up
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: in a way where you're just going to be a
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: little uncomfortable. And I always tell players, I'm like, if
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: you're uncomfortable, you're actually doing it right. Yeah, And so
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: that's why I think you put all that together. I
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: think I'm just in a unique position right now, having
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: just played as recently as.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I have, but also having that experience and knowledge to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: pull from.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: So tell me the kind of like prototype or blueprinted
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: player that thrives in that sort of uncomfortability.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, first and foremost, if you can kind
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: of just accept it, not fight it.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: That's half the battle.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's half the battle, because the reality is your
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: role is just going to be different, all of our roles.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Because that's the hard part. That's the hard part. Yeah.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: You might go from Yeah, you might go from I
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: don't know, shooting twenty shots on your WNBA team to.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Get in a couple.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: You know, you might go from you know, a leading
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: score to now we need you to be a defensive stopper.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: This is hard, I'm telling you, uncomfortable even as a
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: point guard. My role in that regard didn't change a lot.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: But what was asked of me offensively totally different. What
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: was asked of me defensively totally different. I mean they
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: had me picking up full court a lot of times.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: This is not my thing, Yeah, but it's what we
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: needed to do to win. So I think not fighting
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: it and being open to it is, like I said,
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: probably even more than half the battle. And then from
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: there you have to trust and have a lot of
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: trust in yourself, in your skill set that at some
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: point what you do bring to the table A is
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: unique from everybody else. That's why you're there, and B
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: will will get to shine. Yeah, it just might not
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: shine in the exact way you're.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Used to, right, but it'll be shining, especially when that
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: shining is winning.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you're like.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, exactly, Yeah, nothing does shine.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: That's when I when I saw the news, I actually
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: thought about the last interview we did, because we had
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: a conversation sort of around kandas Parker and USA where
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: we talked about when nekeld it make the team and
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: sort of the reactions to that. You've been winning your
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: whole life, so you know about tough situations, but how
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: will you deal with being the bad guy?
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Because you will inevitably be the bad guy.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: The way I think about it is.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: This goes about saying but I'll say it first and foremost,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: I am choosing a team based on winning a gold
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: medal period the end, Like nothing will ever be person
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: and all. It's never about that. It's just about winning
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: the gold medal. But did want to say it just
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: to have it on the record. You know, that is
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: the hard part. The thought of that is the hard part.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: So the one thing that I do bring from my
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: player experience, which I think.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Is unique and nobody has.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: I've never been a coach or a GM where I've
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: had to make these decisions and I've had to see
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: people down and have those conversations. I've never had to
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: be the bad guy in that sense, so that is new,
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: and I'm going to be leaning on a lot of people.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Like the one thing I know is there's things I
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: don't know. Yeah, and I need to go into this
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: experience having like that part to it, because that's where
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: I can ask Grant, right, That's where I can talk
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: to the people at USA Basketball and the staff there
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: and figure out a what roster makes the most sense
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: to win a gold medal and then b how to
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: handle being the quote unquote.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Bad guy because it is. It's sad, but it is inevitable.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: It is inevitable, and I think at the end of
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: the day, I just have to trust in myself that
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I'm going to choose a team that's going to win
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: a gold medal and that's the most important thing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Feel like I know the answer to this, but I
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: just want to hear it.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: What do you think will be more difficult choosing the
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: coach or choosing the players?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure, but one thing I'll say about choosing
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: the players again, based on my experience, first and foremost,
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: you can't do it now. It somehow it always just
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: ends up showing itself as the competition gets closer.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: You can't get ahead of yourself on that. You really can't,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and luckily you don't have to, right.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's certain cutofs where you have to have
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: the roster in by a certain time, but you generally
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: can't get ahead. Sadly, injuries can happen, things change, so
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: you can't get.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Ahead of yourself.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: But the coach you have to choose the coach like
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: almost now for the next you know what is now
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: three years, So that actually has a different I think
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: pressure to it or a different stress level to it,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: because a lot can happen in three years. You just
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: have to go on like who you think is gonna
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: be the right person for the job for that stretch
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: of time. It's like a little bit of a different
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: challenge for sure.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: So you've had four coaches during your time in the Olympics.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: What does it take to be a good coach in
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: that specific environment and also what is being a bad
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: coach in that environment?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: We'll start with the good part. I think when you're
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: the coach of USA basketball. Similar to what I just
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: said about being a player, you have to be okay
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: being uncomfortable.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: You have to be okay.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: With things not going exactly how you want all the
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: time because we just don't have enough time to get
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: it all in. Yeah, So you have to have a
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: little bit of that. I think another part the good
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: news is similar to the player pool, we have again
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: embarrassment of riches in terms of talent. Yeah, and coach,
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: which makes the decision hard, but I'd rather have this problem.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: And so on some level, you know the coaches x's
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: and o's are going to be great. You know, there's
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: no coach that would get the st that doesn't have
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: that part. So I think the next thing you look
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: at is a little bit of like player management personality management,
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: like how does the coach communicate with the players on
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: what their role is going to be and what they
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: need from them and what they need for them to
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: be the you know, to make the team successful. So
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: that's another I think part that I have, you know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: my eyes open to.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: It's exciting though, yes.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: It's like I'm sure there's very few times now in
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: your basketball career where you feel like you're doing something
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: new Yeah, because you've done it all this and seen
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: it all, but this probably feels like an exciting, real
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: element of newness that you're maybe not used to. That is,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: like I said, exciting, but also a little like, Okay,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: it's going to be fun figuring out how exactly I
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: do this the right way and the way that feels
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: like true to me.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So I love you have this this new venture.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Well, just to add to that, the other cool part
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: is and Grant, Grant kind of opened my eyes to this,
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: is you know, when you're at the Olympics, or I
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: don't want to get ahead of myself, we do have
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: the World Cup. So when you're at these events, these
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: major events, you're also you can also talk to the coach.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: You can also be a.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: Little bit of a confidant in a way. And in
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: that way, now I get to be. Now I get
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: to bring all my expertise and experience in terms of
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: the basketball part and what I see like on the floor.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: So you also get to flex that muscle a little
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: bit in this position.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: You may not even know the answer to this, and
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: not to put you on the spot, but is this
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: role like in any ways in your head like a
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: stepping stone is the wrong term, But like, is doing
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: this a way to see if you would like to
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: do something else like this?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. No, No, I think this is
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: pretty unique.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I think are you talking about like if
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: I want to go into coaching or front office?
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, coaching, front office.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I know I've heard you mentioned before that like when
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: it comes to like ownership for like the saw on
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: exhibit comes back, you'd like to do that. But anything
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: that's in line with this that you're almost seeing what
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: it is like right now?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: No, Okay, yeah, we're come back in three years.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, listen, life is long, you're your thoughts of all.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: I just don't know if you know right now. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: this is going to be this is going to be
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: really fun. I'm super excited for you.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about some current w I heard
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you obviously talking about Kaitlyn Clark. You're like, she has
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a year under her belt.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Now she gets the league, She's going to be dangerous.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Now that we have seen a season of what Caitlin
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Clark can do as a pro, Like when you think
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: about what her ceiling is, like, what can Kitlyn Clark
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: be to the w I.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: Mean, she's already it's it's it's like already happening. She's
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: already breaking you know, records left and right. The way
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: that this kid fills a box score is unprecedented. I
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: think what what we all want to see from her
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: is that translate translating into championships. Because that's ultimately for
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: me anyways, how you get you know, graded judged. But
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: for her, I mean, if I were to put like
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: us statistical kind of benchmark on this, and I've talked
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: about this with like Ryan Ruco, Rebecca Lobo, she could
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: end up being the like one of I think Courtney
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Vanderslot at one point averaged a double double with points
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: and assists, but Kitlyn might be the first to do
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: it with over twenty points and over ten assists. Like
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: slutin't average over twenty points, you know, so a twenty
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: and ten points assists double double to average that overseason,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: I don't see why she wouldn't be able to do that.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels very much so Yeah, like happening in
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: front of our eyes. I think everyone thought, you know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Katelyn Clark's going to come into the league and be outstanding, But.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Did you see it this quickly.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Good question. I think like like both like yes and no.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: It was it was I knew the physicality, which obviously
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: took on a whole other like life of its own physicality,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: meaning you're now playing against like grown professional adults, So
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: there's just an adjustment. I knew that was going to
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: take her time, but I have to say, come All
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: Star Break, maybe even a little bit before that, she
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: had already quickly figured it out. I knew from watching
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: her in college, A lot of us knew she couldn't
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: really go right as well as she could go left.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: So what'd you see in the first couple months this season,
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: everybody forced her right, and to her credit, by All.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Star Break, she figured that out too.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: So it was like the things that I thought were
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: going to be troubling or give her trouble, they did.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: But she figured that out much quicker than I think
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: anyone could have anticipated, which is really a credit to
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: probably like how her mind works, like how her basketball
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: mind works, right to be able to lock in and
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: figure that out, especially as a rookie, It was impressive.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Because it feels like that sort of what you're speaking
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: to is sort of that separator when it comes to
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: those those kind of players like in this league, because
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: it is truly fascinating watching her figure this out in
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: this time Because similarly to you, I was like, obviously
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Caitlin Clig is going to be good, but just the
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: rate at how at how it has happened, and how
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: she continues to make a step. But it feels like
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: every few months she hits this different gear in a
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: crazy way. It's just it's really really fun to watch.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite WNBA player? Oh?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Man, a favorite WNBA player. They're all retired. I like
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: the ods.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Gosh, I mean, listen, it's hard not to say, like
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Caitlin Clark, it's hard not to say a lot of
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: these younger players. It's been fun to watch Page get
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: her WNBA career going.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Oh you know what. And this isn't just because it's
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: a Seattlestorm player.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: I love Nekay, Yes, I mean I just really appreciate
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: a player, and probably because I see a little bit
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: of myself and her in this way, not the game,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: but just the mindset. You just know exactly what you're
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: gonna get from her. So consistent shows up every day.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: It doesn't mean you always hit every shot doesn't mean
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: you always play your best, but the effort and what
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: you know you're gonna get from her in that regard.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Is so consistent. It's that steady Eddy that you just
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: love having on your team.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I love that. That's a good answer.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: I went into so I did some of the sideline
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: for Unrivaled, and I went into Unrivaled with Asia Willis
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: has my favorite player, and she still is my favorite player.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: But Kaylyn Clark is also probably my part of occasion Caitlyn.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: But I left Unrivaled so obsessed with Chelsea Gray. Yeah, like,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I think Chelsea Gray is my new favorite wnbaby. See
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: why it is so except every pass I know, you
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: think there's no way she just did that, and there's
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: no way it worked like it was. It's so crazy
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: watching her. One thing that stuck out to me about
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Chelsea Gray's you were having these conversations is she said,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I have to tell my teammates you might get a
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: black eye, but I have to give you that black eye.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: For you to always be ready.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: And I also have to know I'm going to have turnovers,
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: but I need those turnovers for us to get to
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: where we need to be, for our.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Connection to grow in that way.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: What is it you think about Chelsea Gray that just
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: makes her shine as a facilitator.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, I call that the tax.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: We all got to pay.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Taxes in some ways, and as a point guard, the
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: ones that they drop is just a tax. You gotta
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: pay that tax because you know, as you're saying with Chelsea,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: like they get hip to it, they learn, and then
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: they're gonna they're gonna give you all kinds of assists.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, So there's a little bit of a tax you
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: gotta pay. Okay.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: What makes Chelsea special is first and foremost her ability
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: to see the floor. And I don't just mean like
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: she has eyeballs and is looking right. It's the ability
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: to anticipate. It's the ability to read defenses simultaneously. And
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: I think that is probably just something she's always had. Yeah,
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: you get better as you get older because you've been
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: in so many situations and you can kind of recognize
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: them quicker.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: But she probably always had that.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: What I think allows that to shine like that particular
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: part of her game is her ball handling and to
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: be honest, her body type. She creates a lot of space,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: so when you're guarding her, you really. First of all,
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: the handle is tight. You've seen her do her warm ups.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: It's great that thing is on a string. But you
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: when you're guarding her, the way she turns her back
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: to you, you can't get to the ball. But she
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: always has her eyes up looking and so the combination
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: of that allows that ability to see and to anticipate,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: it allows it to shine.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: It really is the combination.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: And then you add the fact that the way she
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: shoots her pull ups, the little fade she has, that's
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: just more distance that's being created. It's really difficult to
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: get like like a real contest on her because she
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: creates so much distance, like with the handle and then
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: with that fade.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Someone so many games, but it's like you know where
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: she's trying to go, and you know what, she still
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: gets there, and that's that's a great player.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Though.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Did you watch I assume you did the attorney, the
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: one on attorney first?
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I did?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, Prime super Bird. She can she can call out
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: one current w player for a one v one Who
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: you calling out?
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Who you gotting out?
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: This is where I put Stewie. I'm like, Sue got
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: taken down in the first round.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Is that my chance? No, I'm not calling out anybody.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I was, by the way, I do think there shouldn't.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: There has to be categories.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like we got.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Why are you giving me all the talls?
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: All these big girls doing here?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so displaimer. I do think there should be categories.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: But yes, who you calling out?
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Oh man, who am I calling out? You know I'm
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: gonna call out my favorite player of all time, Jen
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: a Zy. By the way, I was lucky. Jen is
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: my favorite player. She's my c it b at moment
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: when I was a kid. I've had the opportunity to
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: tell her that, which was one of the best days ever.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: And I did get to play against her early WNBA
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: years she was in the league, I think for we
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: were in the league at the same time for like
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: two seasons and she blocked my shot like multiple times,
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: and I was I'm like, we're the same height. How
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: is this happening? She just had my timing. Yeah, but yeah,
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: I'll call out Jenny's.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Any current player currently like I would have loved I'm
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a Potter now I get it.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: Literally, I would have loved to have played in it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I feel like for me personally, I'm not a one
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: on one player. Yeah, I'm tiny, it's the whole thing.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: But it would have been like funny. Yeah, you gotta
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: like throw a real small one in there. Let her
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: go to work, you know.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I think it was exciting.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Though it was great, I was all I was all
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: into it. Yeah, I loved everything about the experience of Unarrival.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: But they just they made so many different innovative decisions
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: that I just.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Think are great for the game.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Of course, I want to talk to you about I
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: saw the you and Diana Tarassi once very.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Short lived talked about Timina playing together. Yeah. I'm always
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: fascinated by stories like this.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Is there any other almost pairing that we don't know
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: about or trade that could have happened the Dinnert.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: That we're just not privy to.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: No, nothing that I don't think I spoken about publicly.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: That was definitely the only pairing that I ever had
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: like a really semi serious conversation about.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: There was a free agency.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, but I've told this story before where I
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: was a free agent, Jewel had just been drafted, so
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: the twenty fifteen season had just finished. We didn't do
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: so great, and I had a moment where it was like,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: am I ever going to play in the playoffs again? Right,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: I'm thirty five years old. I've way less years ahead
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: of me than I do behind. You know, am I
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: ever going to play in the playoffs again? And so
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: that was like a question. And I remember exactly where
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: I was when the draft lottery was happening. It was
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: basically the brand of Stewart sweepstakes, and you know, we
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: had a lot of balls in that lottery, which is great.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: And I was with some friends and I was actually
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: out and the TVs were on. I asked with the
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: TV on and in the moment where it was like okay,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: and the number you know, they go.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Backwards, so it's like, then the number two pick goes too.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: So when it didn't go to us, which meant we
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: got the number one pick, I was like, guys, I'm staying. Yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: but yeah, seriously, in that moment, I was like I'm
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: staying And I've said this time and time again. Stuie
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: and Jewel like quite literally saved my career. Quite literally
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: saved my career. I didn't even care if we got
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: to the playoffs. I now just had a whole new
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: reason to show up to work every day. And so
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: they literally saved my career. They kept me young, saved
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: my career. We won two rings. It couldn't have ended
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: any better.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: And it's definitely because of them.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: That's such a beautiful story.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you I would have left I didn't get
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: the number one pick.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I don't know if that's true.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeahs as often as I can.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: How does that just kind of forever bond you to
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: these just like two women and in a way that
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: is just unique?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, well, first of all, it forever bonds us
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: and that can never be broken.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: They're obviously no longer with the Storm, and I only
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: bring that up to say what was so? So what
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: really connected us was I was the elder statesman, you know,
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: I was the one that had been there, done that,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: and could really kind of, you know, give them as
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: many tips, as many shortcuts, as many WBA hacks if
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: you will, that I could. And you know, the whole
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: idea was for them to then take the reins and
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: lead the Storm franchise, you know, for the remainder of
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: their career, remainder of their careers.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Obviously they didn't.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: Pan out that way, but even still, I know the
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: impact I had on them is in some ways immeasurable.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: But they also did it their own way, which is
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: always a big part. I think if you're going to
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: be in any kind of like mentorship relationship, you want
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: to help and you want a guide, but they kind
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: of have to figure it out on their own too.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: And so we just had a really I think, a
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: really special way with each other. And then, like I said,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: the other part of it was the impact they had
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: on me, and that wasn't really I wasn't really expecting that.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know that that was going to be
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: another part of this.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: So the minute we get together, even if a group
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: chat you know, between the three of us get started,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's just classic. It's like right where we
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: left off. That's so, Yeah, it's really amazing.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: You know, as you're talking about that, I remember we
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: had this conversation about just that first year with Lauren Jackson, Yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: and how she didn't really like you. How did that
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: experience maybe shape how you wanted to be as events
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: and especially when it's just.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: The new, fresh, young talent that comes on a team
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: So the one thing I'll say about the Lauren situation
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: was we were so close in age that that's kind
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: of what made it a little bit of like, oh,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: who's this new kid on this is my block?
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like what's going on here?
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: So that that was unique because we I mean, she
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: was actually younger than me, So even though she got
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: drafted ahead of me, she's actually younger at me.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: So that was a little different.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: But I've certainly had my fair share of Vets older
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: players five, ten, fifteen years older than me, and so
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: I had experiences with that, honestly, some great, some not
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: as great.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: And I learned from them, for sure. I learned from
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: them from sure.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: And I think the thing it still plays out to
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: this day, and I totally get it. The thing that
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: I've learned about that kind of dynamic, right a younger
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: player an older player. When you're the older player, you
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: might even say to the younger player like any time,
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: reach out, here's my number, and they're going to go okay,
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: and they're never going to do it. They're never going
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: to do it. And I think when you're the older player,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: you have to remember that that that telling them that
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: that one time isn't enough. You don't want to annoy them,
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: and you don't want to bug them. You don't want
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: to be the older player that's like constantly in their face.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: But you have to remember to like circle back on that.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I get it. I know you mean it.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I get it when I was a younger player
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: and I had, you know, the likes of Cheryl Swoops
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: or Lisa Leslier Don Staley being like, yo, if you
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: have any questions, you're like okay, and then you never
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: go back because you're like a little scared.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but you never go back.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: So that's definitely something that I learned that I tried
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: to use in that relationship.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: You and Meghan had a really enlightening conversation just about
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: the discourse around the W right now, which is a
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: little out of control at the moment. To you, like,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: what is the line between things that we should talk
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: about in the W that are additive to the game,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: even if it isn't something that isn't x's and o's,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: but it is still additive to the game, and that
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: line that completely takes the focus away from what is
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: happening on the court.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is the million dollar question.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: I think that is what a lot of people, whether
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: it's fans, whether it's media, have heart myself included. It's
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: that that subtle little nuance, that thin, thin, thin line,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: because sadly, in women's sports for a lot of reasons,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: once it does crawl, it's gone. We can't even get
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: it back, and it's hard to articulate. It's almost like
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: you know when you see it, but it's hard to articulate.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: I think a big part of it is people not
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: understanding that our league, the WNBA, is physical and it's
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: competitive the same way you've watched men's sports be physical
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: and competitive for all these this is not new. All
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: the little you know fights, or all the little moments
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: where people like you know, do the stare down. This
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: has been in our league from the jump. This has
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: been in sports from the jump. It's the same for women,
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: and it doesn't have some deeper meaning to it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Is that to say that at times it might have some.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Deeper meaning to it. Of course there's been that too.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Because this is sports, right, this is what we love
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: about sports, and so that has definitely been been a
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: big issue because like.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: The deeper meaning is no deeper meaning than the other deeper.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Meanings, you know, like that's it is the same thing.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: And I think sort and I say this all the time.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: To me, what it is is it's it is like
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: people are incapable of not seeing women as women.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: First.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So the reason that they are seeing this differently
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: than what it is in the NBA or any other
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: men's sport is simply just that you're looking at the
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: NBA and you're seeing athlete and you're looking at the
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: WNBA and you're seeing women, and that is obviously a
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: incorrect but be messing up how it is being discussed
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: because you aren't even allowing yourself to see it through
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: the lens of what it is, which are people that
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: are playing a sport, not like just women that are.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Just out there.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, yea, And that is I don't know
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: how we get past that, because it feels like that
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: has been the issue for quite some time when you're
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: talking about women's sports generally.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's tough. And then, I mean, I can't
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: even believe that we have to talk about this. But
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: it's like the Twitter troll and bot situation is wild.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: And then the other part of it, and this is
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: what Megan and I talked about the other day. We've
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: talked about the last couple of years, even or over
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: the course of the last year, is the fact that
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: a Twitter narrative, probably from which becomes the mainstream story,
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: and that just speaks to the lack of coverage that
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: has been in the world of women's basketball and now.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: And that's when we say like new the new members
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: of the media or the new fans, Like that's what
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: we're referring to because you come in and you kind
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: of believe everything you read, and you that just would
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: never happen in a men's sport. So nobody would ever
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: you know, read I mean, I guess NBA, what is
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: it sentil I guess some people do it, yea, So
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: maybe I'm wrong about that, but we're always going to
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: be like one person popping off on Twitter, and you know,
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: you would turn on whatever mainstream media you watch and
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: they'd be talking about it. Yeah, like there'd be an
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: understanding of the full picture. And we never get And
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: I think that's to your point, where they see women,
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: we never get the full breath of it. It's just
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: always in these little silos totally.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's transparently. The more the media does this,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: like we are failing. The women like you aren't allowing
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: people to be the thing that they have worked for
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: their entire life, because you're just completely seeing them as
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: something else. And where it's a very very dangerous slippery
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: slope if social media determines the stories that we tell,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: because social media isn't the world, but we allow it
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: to be the topic of the day, which actually does
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: translate to the world because that is how people are
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: digesting what they're seeing. And it's just the more and
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: more we do that, I just think I don't think
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: people really recognize the percussions of continuing to talk about
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: it in that way. So I don't know, there has
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: to be there has to be some kind of fix.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: I mean what it is honestly, it's us having a
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: conversation like this. It's I think what we're seeing now.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: You know, we joke about being a podcaster, but yes,
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: I am now a fully fledged podcaster.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: But it is the people that really do have that
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: understanding are now in front of the microphone a little
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: bit more. Yes, like Chinae was very.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Quick in the most recent you know, Caitlin Clark flagrant
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: foul and Angel Reese Cheney was one of the people
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: that got to speak on it, you know, which I
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: thought was great. So having people that know have microphones,
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: like more microphones in front of their faces now, does
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: is like one way to have that impact.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: And have that change totally.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I want to talk about this idea of marketability because
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: you were you so vulnerably and beautifully discussed how concerns
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: about marketability was one of the things that held you
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: back from coming out, and that you were very cognizant
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: of the fact that people believe like sex cells, or
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: at least being sexy cells. What do you think that
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: says about what we believe to be marketable, specifically when
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: it comes to women's sports.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Interesting my experience now, not just for myself, but like
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: what I'm seeing is it's it's actually the opposite. I
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: feel like what we're seeing now is the more authentic
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: you are, the more true to yourself that you are,
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: the more marketable that you are, the more.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: People want to work with you. But the subtle difference
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: there is.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: When I was younger, and like you said, I had
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: this thing where like I can't come out sex sells.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I have to be a certain way that was to
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: be digestible. That was to be.
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: Attractive, not I don't mean like the actual physical, but
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: like people wanting to work with you. That was me
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: or somebody like me wanting to be available to everybody,
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: every brand, every company, every commercial, every everything. And so
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: what's interesting is when you're authentic to yourself, you might
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: not be what one company or one brand is looking for,
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: but you might be exactly what somebody else wants. And
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: that's really what matters anyways, Like that's the relationship you
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: want to have of your marketing. Those are the relationships
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: you want to have. You don't want to have to
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: be fake to just be able to get them. All
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: you want to have, like whoever you are in, for
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: lack of a better lane, you're in, you want to
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: team up with those companies, those brands.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So my mindset has shifted.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: But when I was coming up in all this, yes,
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: and it was definitely it felt like a vibe of
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: for me personally.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: The more girl next door I.
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: Was and the more I leaned into that, the more
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: palpa do I be for all these companies, the more
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: people would want to work with me, The more I
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: don't know fanfare I might get. That was my version
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: of like the sex Cells being the girl next door.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you see authenticity show up in the
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: W today?
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's everywhere in a really wonderful way, because I
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: think for so long we did have to deal with
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: just trying to be something we weren't and maybe for
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: some it hit you know, for some players it was
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: their lane, but from a jar the league it wasn't.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And now you're just really the way I would say it.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: Is there's just a freedom to really just be yourself,
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: like whatever, the full like spectrum of.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: That, and you see it.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: You see it on people's social media, you see it
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: in a league like un Rival, the way it was celebrated. Really,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: you know, whether you're I don't even know, like Courtney
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: William's starting to power with your dad, or you're one
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: of the moms who you know, luckily has now a
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: caretaker for their child and they can be a mom
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: essentially when they're not playing.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think one of the shifts that
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: has happened in the in the W that I think
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: is really beautiful. It's more subtle, but it's like very meaningful.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Is it feels like there's no longer this I just
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: feel lucky to be here, yeah, which is probably more
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: in line with what you felt like when you had
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: first started. But now historically, I also think just as
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: women are always trying to sort of get out of
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: that idea of like I'm not lucky to be here,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: I deserve to be here. I should be here. I'm
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: getting the things that I should have that doesn't feel
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: like it exists now. And I think that is actually
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: the most important difference that doesn't always get talked about.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't exist at all. If I could put
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: like a year on it, I would say around like
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: twenty eighteen ish, I started noticing a shift because I
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: was in I was on the executive committee, so all
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: the CBA conversations and you know, you're talking about a
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: lot you're teaching the young players, and I noticed a shift.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: A lot of the young players are like, no, we
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: want charter flights. We're like, wait, we're just trying to
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: get our own hotel rooms. But they had something about them.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Now in the moment where we're going to get charter flights.
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: Probably not, but the way they were essentially like thinking
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: big and not taking no for an answer, it was
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, it changed how even the older players.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Were looking at it.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: It really informed a lot of what we did in
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: that CBA negotiation. And I noticed it right away, And
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: I think it's speaking to what you were saying, because
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: not only were we for so long just like happy.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: To have a league, there was another part.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Of it where we're all making our money overseas, so
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: we were just like.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, whatever, like I'm making my money over there, yeah,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: like whatever, not that we didn't care.
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: We obviously cared we played in it, you know, even
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: though we would like bag on it. Sometimes we were
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: showing up every season, you know, ready to go. So
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: that it was just a totally different shift that happened again,
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: if I had to guess, I'd say around twenty eighteen.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so happy it came.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: Though, I'm like, you should be others that you should
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: ask for exactly what you want, And I do think
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: for so long it didn't even seem like the possibility existed.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: To ask for what you want, just happy to have it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I I that is what I think about
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: this moment. I actually think about celebrating the women because
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: you it's that is a mind shift that I think
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: has been more of the incremental change that has led to.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Right now, I want to talk some Hall of fame
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: before we let you go. So on September you Maya
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: more Sylvia Falles, you get enshrined into the Hall of Fame.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: That's ten WNBA titles, three finals, MVPs, and twenty seven
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: All Star selections.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Very easy argument there.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: That this is the best class of women that we
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: have seen him to this point. I don't know, are
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: you comfortable saying that.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good class? Yeah?
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when you say it that way, I'm like, I mean,
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: they're they're definitely hold holding up.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, I don't have any MVPs.
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: So they're they're they're doing their job on that one.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: But I contribute in other ways.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: But I mean, just even hearing that out loud and
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: knowing that you are part of of that group, what
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: sense of pride do you feel?
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: I feel so lucky to be going in with Maya
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: and so not just because they're amazing players, not just
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: because they're amazing people. Of course, I feel like it's
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: so special to go in with people that you played with.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like you.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: You really experience the game of basketball and the journey
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: that all this was for for those of us in
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: this generation, we got to experience that together. So Maya
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: and still I both played USA basketball with like multiple
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: teams multiple times.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: All the things I mentioned earlier, they were all there too.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: And Still actually played in Russia with And that's a
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: whole other situation because you're you're together twenty four to seven.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you're living in a foreign country.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: It's you know, so you really get to know somebody
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: so to be able to go in with them right now,
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: because it hasn't really sat in yet really not really,
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I'm kind of like, oh, yeah, I guess the Hall
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: of Fame is coming. This is crazy, but it hasn't
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: like really clicked.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: You think it won't be until you're there, probably, Yeah,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: So how what's the process of Like you're writing your speech?
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Have you started and you're like, I'm just it's from
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the heart, from the heart. But I love that. Okay,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: two more questions for you? Let you go.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: I would just like, can you contextualize for people how
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: insanely good Maya more was, because I do not know
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: if people really get it. I don't know if it's
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: the playing eight years, I don't know if it's just
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: like time.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: But she was like nothing we've seen.
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: Oh god, how do I even explain it? Just could
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: could score at every level. I know that we say
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: there's three levels, like Maya had like eight.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: It's like.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: You just so impossible to guard her. Really, the only
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: two ways to guard her were to find ways to
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: you know, like double team or find ways to or
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: you literally just had to like go box on one.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: And you don't say that in the WA. You don't
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: say that in professional basketball, like it's you don't say that.
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: And that was literally what we would have to do
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: at times. It was just so hard to guard her.
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: Her size, you know, I would say six one ish,
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: maybe six to two on a good day.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Her strength, Maya was so strong, her.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: IQ, so the minute you did think you had her stop,
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: she would find the open player. And then on top
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: of that, I mean not a lot of people talk
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: about this with Maya, but she's arguably like top three
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: shooters in WBA history just like flat out can shoot,
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: you know, like I'm not talking numbers or where she
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: ranks with three pointers, stability, just like shooting. Yeah, like
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: just one of the best shooters. The minute it got
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: locked in, like her form was pretty and the minute
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: it got locked in that was it. It was and
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: then yeah, I mean she was just a winner.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: She was really incredible.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm from Gwenett, so like.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: Maya Moore was all the rain dilove me sent Maya
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: Moore so and I love everything that she has done
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: in her career. Rather it was her deciding to you know,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: really be an activist and dedicate herself to that or
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: just the elite basstall player she was.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I loved the photo of you and her and.
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: Diana, but then you have page and it's it's all
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: so good. I love it, so major shout out to
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: Maya Moore. Last question, which we ask everybody to end
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: the show is who was your biggest assist off the court?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Like who helped me?
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I'm like, let me get this right.
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh no brain or my sister. Oh that's an
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: easy one.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: And what's cool about it is her name's Jen. She's
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: five years older.
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: So when you're younger, she wasn't really fucking with me.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: She's really messing with me. I was kind of annoying. Yeah,
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: but I always had this person obviously her to look
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: up to, like in my house, and she was incredibly
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: successful in sports, even more successful, like in the classroom,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: went on to be a lawyer.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: She opened up her own bookstore just because you know
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: why not, Like she's just so cool.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's so ambitious, so motivated, and I was so
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: lucky to have that type of role model in my house,
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: Like not everybody gets to say that, you know, and
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: then you fast forward to getting older and that five
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: years isn't so much of a gap anymore, and now
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: I get to learn from her in this whole other way.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: But the relationship has really gotten closer, probably of the course,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: like the last ten years, but then even more so
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: in retirement. Yeah, now that I'm a little more settled
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: on not traveling as much, I get to spend more
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: time and it's just for me. It's like a full
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: circle role model moment that also evolved with our lives
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: just naturally evolving. And now that we're older, we're even closer.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: So it's really special.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: That's a beautiful answer. So we are lucky to have you,
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: and the w is lucky to have you. Sports is
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: lucky to have you. It's always so cool for me
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: to see just the different ways that you are impacting everything.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: It it's with your voice, your actions, you having these roles.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: I just think that you are an incredibly important figure
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: and all the things that we see right now, and
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: I hope that you also take that time to soak
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: in the impact.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: That you're having now. I really appreciate that means a
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: lot coming from you. I love seeing you do yourself.
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: I know when I come on here, I'm going to
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: get some hard hitters, but I know you're also going
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: to do it with a lot of care.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: So I really appreciate us, of course, and thank you
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: for your time. Always a pleasure, cap and I our
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: day is made. We got to chat with Super
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you, So that's finest