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How Trusts Can Protect Your Home and Reduce Estate Taxes · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Toddltsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: if financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better? You, I'm great.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks. What do you have for us this week?
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  Speaker 3: I've got a couple of things. I've got a Florida
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  Speaker 3: appellate court case. Basically, you think it's dealing with the homestead,
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  Speaker 3: but it's homestead protection in trust or not. So if
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  Speaker 3: it's in trust, you get the homestead. And by the way,
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  Speaker 3: homestead is different for every state. This is one where
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  Speaker 3: they're trying to say that because the house was in
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  Speaker 3: the trust, you don't get the homestead protection after someone died. Well,
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  Speaker 3: we're going to talk all about homestead and what kind
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  Speaker 3: of protections you get while you're alive, and then how
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  Speaker 3: it deals in Massachusetts anyway when you die. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: there's Florida law here and I'll explain it, but early
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  Speaker 3: it's about mass So interesting how trusts work with homestead
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  Speaker 3: protection and probate. So you're going to see the benefits here.
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  Speaker 3: Then I have a fifth circuit case, little complicated situation
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  Speaker 3: dealing with family limited partnerships and LLCs and the transfers
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  Speaker 3: of them and using discounts when you're valuing them when
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  Speaker 3: you die, and how that all works. This is a
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  Speaker 3: little more sophisticated for people, but it's a way of
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  Speaker 3: discounting your estate to save estate taxes. And by the way, hey,
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  Speaker 3: this technique works, but you gotta do it right. And
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  Speaker 3: you're going to see how in this case wasn't quite
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  Speaker 3: right and why it failed, but it's very important you're
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  Speaker 3: going to see. And this is a fifth circuit out
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  Speaker 3: of Texas case that deals with these partnerships and LLCs,
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  Speaker 3: by the way, all created under a power of attorney,
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  Speaker 3: just to add to the facts. So, folks, these are
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  Speaker 3: just some irrevocable and revocable trusts. Both of these cases
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  Speaker 3: deal with both of those trusts. But the one we
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  Speaker 3: have in our guide for this month is the irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: Medicaid trust. It's the one where a lot of people,
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  Speaker 3: we talk about it a lot, and it's the one
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  Speaker 3: where you try to get not only estate tax planning benefits,
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  Speaker 3: but also protecting your assets from the cost of long
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  Speaker 3: term care. And the word irrevocables in there, and people
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  Speaker 3: get nervous, think they lose control. This guide is a
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  Speaker 3: question and answer guide, probably thirty five plus questions and
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  Speaker 3: answers about how this thing works. When you're done, you're
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  Speaker 3: going to find out how much control you used to have,
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  Speaker 3: from living in your house to selling your house, to
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  Speaker 3: no adverse income taxes even when you file the income
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  Speaker 3: tax return, the access you have to the money you know,
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  Speaker 3: is it a gift when you set it up? Is
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  Speaker 3: it not a gift? You know every how it works
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  Speaker 3: when you pass away, Folks, this guide will finally, once
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  Speaker 3: and for all help you decide whether or not it's
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  Speaker 3: right for you. Call and get it eight six six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
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  Speaker 3: And you can always go to our Instagram page Cushing
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  Speaker 3: Dolan PC for more information. Florida pellid court case. So
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  Speaker 3: Sally she died and her daughter Kim, filed a petition
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  Speaker 3: seeking determination that Sally's home, which was owned in the
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  Speaker 3: family trust at the time of her death, is protected
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  Speaker 3: from the homestead, which means there's no creditor claims that
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  Speaker 3: can file against her in that case. So that's what
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  Speaker 3: homestead means in Florida. Now it's different in all states.
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  Speaker 3: But okay, so Joel and Tammy say, you know what,
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  Speaker 3: We're going to file a creditor claim and we're going
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  Speaker 3: to file a petition to a motion to dismiss Kim's petition,
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  Speaker 3: arguing that the homestead protection is limited to the surviving
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  Speaker 3: spouse or children and not when it's in a trust.
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  Speaker 3: The trial court denied the motion to dismiss, allowing the
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  Speaker 3: homestead protection to stand. Well, Joel and Tammy weren't happy
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  Speaker 3: with that, so they appealed. They said the residence is
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  Speaker 3: not owned by Sally's trust because Sally's will gave the
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  Speaker 3: personal representative the power to sell any and all property
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  Speaker 3: belonging to Sally's estate, and because the property is part
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  Speaker 3: of Sally's state, it should be sold to pay the tax.
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  Speaker 2: Sounds like they're grasping it's.
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  Speaker 3: First of all, it's foolish. It doesn't matter what the
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  Speaker 3: will says if it's in a trust. The will doesn't
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  Speaker 3: govern assets that are in a trust, so it really
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  Speaker 3: doesn't matter. Anyways, that's a commentary. I don't want to
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  Speaker 3: change things. Let's see what the appellate court sure has
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  Speaker 3: to say. Nope, they agreed affirmed the trial court and
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  Speaker 3: found that the residence was titled to Sally's trust and
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  Speaker 3: Sally maintained ownership interest in it even though the trust
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  Speaker 3: held title to it. Therefore, it's still protected from Sally's creditors. Folks,
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  Speaker 3: that's the right answer right here. But they kind of
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  Speaker 3: get there in a roundabout way.
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  Speaker 2: And that's because if she'd owned it in her own name,
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  Speaker 2: it would be a probate asset, right, a great asset,
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  Speaker 2: which that's when you're exposed creditors.
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  Speaker 3: I believe. Well, let's go through it for Massachusetts anyway,
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  Speaker 3: and again I don't want to spend too much time
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  Speaker 3: on that's the facts in a Florida case. We're here.
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  Speaker 3: Let's learn about how this would play out in Massachusetts
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  Speaker 3: because we know what the homestead does here. There's two
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  Speaker 3: ways of looking at it. One during life. So during life,
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  Speaker 3: you get homestead protection in Massachusetts one hundred and twenty
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  Speaker 3: five thousand dollars automatically on your.
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  Speaker 2: Home without filing any paperwork, doing nothing, okay.
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  Speaker 3: No filing. If you file, I know, you got to
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  Speaker 3: spend thirty five dollars and you get a five hundred
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  Speaker 3: thousand dollars per person protection. Okay, if you're over sixty two,
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  Speaker 3: that's considered elderly according to the homestead rules.
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  Speaker 2: I know, does that offend you as you're approaching.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, you get to stack these so your protection if
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  Speaker 3: you're married husband and wife, would be a million dollars. Wow,
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  Speaker 3: that's pretty cool. And like they say, it cost thirty
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  Speaker 3: five dollars to go record this and then you can
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  Speaker 3: get this protection. Now, even if your home is in
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  Speaker 3: a trust in Massachusetts, you get to protection. So you
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  Speaker 3: get home homestead protection. And now when you work with us,
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  Speaker 3: we transfer your house to the trust for you, and
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  Speaker 3: we make sure that you file the homestead so you
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  Speaker 3: get your protection even though we put it in the trust. Fine.
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  Speaker 3: Now note the irrevocable Medicaid trust, like the one we're
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  Speaker 3: talking about in our guide this month, always gives you
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  Speaker 3: the homes. I mean, we decide not to do homestead
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  Speaker 3: protection when it's in the EREV because the EREV actually
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  Speaker 3: provides more protection than the homestead can give you.
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  Speaker 2: Oh from a creditor perspective, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And the language in the homestead seems to make it
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  Speaker 3: sound like you're the owner of the property, and I
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  Speaker 3: don't want that to impact your Medicaid eligibility. I could
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  Speaker 3: see a judge making that leap. So we don't do
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  Speaker 3: that for you. But you don't need to worry about it.
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  Speaker 3: You're still protected. The bigger issue here, and like with
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  Speaker 3: this case, is what happens when you die. Well, in Massachusetts,
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  Speaker 3: the creditors can file claims. And this is what you
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  Speaker 3: were saying Susan against the probated state only. So avoiding
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  Speaker 3: pro mass not only helps you avoid all the headaches
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  Speaker 3: and delays associated with probate, but it also protects your
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  Speaker 3: assets from creditors. So the fact that this house was
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  Speaker 3: owned and the court acknowledged it that it was titled
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  Speaker 3: to a family trust means in Massachusetts that it would
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  Speaker 3: have avoided probate, and therefore I don't even need to
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  Speaker 3: go any further. In Massachusetts, creditors can only file claims
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  Speaker 3: against your estate when you're dead, your probata state, not
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  Speaker 3: your grosses state. So in this case, you know the
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  Speaker 3: facts that the trust was named in the trust, that
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  Speaker 3: that was titled to the trust, it would be completely protected,
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  Speaker 3: I think, from these creditors here in Massachusetts. Now, remember
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  Speaker 3: there's certain types of so you can have assets, and
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  Speaker 3: this is the difference between the probata state and the
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  Speaker 3: grosser state. You could have zero assets in your probata state,
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  Speaker 3: but your grosser state could be millions. That's okay, even
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  Speaker 3: though probate estate is empty. Now there's certain irrevocable trusts
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  Speaker 3: that are outside of both the probate and the grosser state.
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  Speaker 3: So if you set up an irrevocable trust in which
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  Speaker 3: you've actually made a completed gift, like.
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  Speaker 2: An irrevocable gifting trust.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's so many kinds that I just want
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  Speaker 3: to make it clear for people. In those situations, you
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  Speaker 3: have made a completed gift, put the property outside of
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  Speaker 3: your probata state and outside of your grosser state. So
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  Speaker 3: in that case, you're doing that to reduce your estate
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  Speaker 3: tax liability. And that would be for folks that have
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  Speaker 3: larger states. I don't want to mix that up with
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  Speaker 3: this irrevocable medicaid trust we're talking about in our guide,
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  Speaker 3: because those transfers are incomplete gifts and included in your
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  Speaker 3: grosser state, but not your probata state. So back to
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  Speaker 3: this case, it would avoid probate and protect it from
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  Speaker 3: creditors filing against your estate. The guide understand how this
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  Speaker 3: irrevocable medicaid trust works. It's a question answer format. It
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  Speaker 3: explains how you can sell your house, move by another house,
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  Speaker 3: all the income tax ramifications, et cetera. Eight sixty six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the legal exchange
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  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Cushing in Doolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power but Revocable
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: assets from the cost of long term care while still
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the common misunderstandings about irrevocable trusts
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  Speaker 1: and how they actually work. It explains why many families
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: use these trusts as part of a broader play and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also
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  Speaker 1: find information about how these trust work, what types of
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  Speaker 1: assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why the details
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: matter when it comes to protecting what you've built. Get
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  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers of Financial Advice with the Armstrong By Group,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and doln for the Masters in taxation.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You're going to show us how to wave your magic
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: wand to knock down those estate taxes.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an interesting case out of Texas the
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Fifth Circuit. So here in twenty ten and created a
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  Speaker 3: durable power of attorney and named her great nephew Brian,
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  Speaker 3: as attorney in fact, and appointed him PR on the will.
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  Speaker 3: Very next year. Dates are very important here, she was
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: diagnosed with Alzheimer's and declined rapidly. Over the next few years,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: she was further declining. He provided care for her, and
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: in twenty twelve, two years later, he was managing her
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: financial affairs. Now we get to twenty fifteen. Five years later,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Brian forms an LLC and puts cash, notes and receivables
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: in real estate in Texas. In this LLC, he does
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: this by power of attorney because she's obviously five years
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, Brian created a limited partnership and transferred most
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: of Ann's assets into it. Shortly before Ann's death. The
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: partnership owned about seventeen million dollars of Ann's assets. He
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: did that in twenty sixteen some point shortly after that
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  Speaker 3: June twenty sixteen, and died. By the way, dates and
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: timing here a very important, folks. The CPA then prepared
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: the state tax return for the estate and included the
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: partnership interests at eleven million interest.
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  Speaker 2: That is seventeen, and that's.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Because of these discounts that you're allowed to take that
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: I'll be talking about. That's about a thirty five percent
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: discount if you run the numbers, which is an acceptable
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: amount of a discount when you're valuing things for lack
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: of control and lack of marketability, which i'll explain in
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: a minit it okay, And so it reflects this discount
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: that we just talked about. Well, this reduced the estate
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: tax by six or reduced the value of the estate
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: by six million dollars right seventeen minus eleven six million.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: The tax bill was four point six million. The IRS
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: said the full value of the partnership assets should be
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: included in this estate, thus increasing the tax by one
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: point eight million plus a two hundred and seventy thousand
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: dollars penalty for failure to pay. Come well, well, the
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: family wasn't happy with DIRS decisions, so they appealed this. Well,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: the appellate court affirmed the IRS decision, the trial court's decision,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: and the IRS decision, stating that the assets were not
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: there was not a bona fide sale for value and
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: it lacked a substantial non tax purpose when you set
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: up these partnerships and LLCs, and therefore no discount should
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: be included when you're doing the estate.
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  Speaker 2: And so that's going to be need to be translated
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to me.
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  Speaker 3: I will I'm going to absolutely translate that for you.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: But I'm also going to leave you with this message
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: that that's the right answer. I think it's absolutely the
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: right answer. I've seen these bad facts over and over.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: This does not mean this technique does not work. This
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: technique works great, but you got to do it right. Remember,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: these are these things where you don't try to do
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: things alone, and folks, maybe call and get this guide
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: so you don't try to do your own estate planning alone.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: This will at least educate you. It's called Unlocking the
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Power of irrevocable trusts. So many of you are interested
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: in understanding how an irrevocable trust works. You're often put
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: off by the word you or evocable, thinking you've lost
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: control and you're afraid of it. This has got all
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: the most frequently asked questions and answers laid out in
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: this guide. You know you're going to learn how to
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: set it up. You're going to learn who the donor
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: and trustee can be. You're gonna learn how you can
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: sell your home, you can move, you can buy another home.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: You don't have any adverse capital gains tax consequences. You're
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: gonna learn how it's a grand tour trust and you
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: can still get your capital gains tax exclusion when you
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: sell your home. You're going to see how it's not
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: you know, is it a taxable gift going in? Is
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: it not a taxable gift? How do you access the
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: income and principle? Folks, if you ever wanted to know
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: if this trust was right for you, this guide will
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: in fact answer that question. Call and get it eight
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: dot com. You can always go to Cushing Dolean PC's
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Instagram page and get more information.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: So I know you've done you've you've done this technique before.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Are lots of time very successfully.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: The amount of money we save people is staggering when
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: you start talking about a thirty five percent discount on
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: millions and millions of dollars. So let me explain what's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: going on here. LLCs, LLPs and discounts, we'll call it.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: So this is a technique that you're allowed using valuation discounts.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: You can gift limited partnership units or non voting LLC units.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: It's a viable way of reducing your technique your state
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: if you do it properly. So here's how it works.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: If you set up a limited partnership, and let's just
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: say we focus on just a limited partnership, and you
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: transferred one percent general partnership interest to the kids. You
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: don't want to be in control anymore. That controls the entity.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: If you did it this way, this is better for
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: this case, and you get to keep ninety nine percent
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: of the non or non voting or in this case,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: limited partnership interests. So what happens in this case? You say,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to now say to my parent, look, I
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: can't run everything anymore, and I want you to run everything. Yep,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to keep ninety nine percent ownership interest.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: But as a limited partner, I really can't do anything.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I got to hope that you kids manage and run
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: and do everything well. But I get ninety nine percent
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: of the income which I need to live on. But
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I'm also you know, frail, and there's you know, got
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: to have these other reasons that I'm doing it. I'm
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: just not able to manage it. Whether it's real estate
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: or or money or whatever you put in there. You know,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I just don't feel like I can do it anymore.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: So when you hold limited partnership units, there's seemingly this
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: loss of control and loss loss of lack of marketability
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: when you own these partnerships. So if I died owning
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: these limited partnership units, you take the value of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: partnership and you say, look, nobody wants to buy im
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: my limited partnership units because they get they have no
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: control over it, so they don't want it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: If I were if you were trying to sell me
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: your units, I'd say, yeah, sounds great until you say, oh,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: by the way, there's a little bit left over here.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: You have to go through my kids.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: You just got to sit back and hope everything gets out.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: No thanks, So nobody wants it. So there's a lack
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: of marketability and there's a lack of control, which is
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: what we just described. So those you'd say, I'll buy it,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: but not for fair market value. I'll buy it for
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: a discount and over time. There's tax court cases out
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: there that we follow that say about a thirty five
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: percent discount combined for those lack of control, lack of marketability.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: And if you took seventeen million and hit it at
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: thirty five percent low and behold, you get eleven million.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: So they took the right discount in this case, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: so I get it. So that should be fine, you
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: should get the discount. So why this failed is very
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: likely because by twenty fifteen she had lost capacity completely.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: If you look at this right, she had lost capacity
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: to make decisions. All the actions taken were done by
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: a power of attorney, none done by her right. And
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the limited partnership was actually created in twenty sixteen. I
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: don't know February March. She died in June twenty sixteen,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: very close in time to the time in which she
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: set this up. So remember, in order for this to work,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: you need to have a bona fide sale for fair
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: market value, and there needs to be non tax reasons
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: to do this. You can't do it just to save taxes.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So she would have had to have initiated that transfer
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: more than the power of attorney.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's a combination of her having to do
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: it herself. So there's a non tax reason, and you
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: can't do it close in time to death. If you're
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: gonna die sick two months, three months after you put
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: this together, the IRS is going to say there was
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: no non tax reason to do this. There is no
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: managing living your life having it controlled for you. There
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: was no reason to do this other than reduce taxes.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Right it failed, got it, got it okay?
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: And so just the lesson here is just don't procrastinate.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: We talk about procrastination planning from all sorts of angles,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: but in this case, don't procrastinate. You're not going to
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: get the success that you need from your plan. Folks,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: call and get the guide. Learn what kind of planning
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: is right for you. This is an irrevocable Medicaid Trust
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine to
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. You can download
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: it there.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd Willburary
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: answering your questions. When we return to the Legal Exchange
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necess necessarily the case.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power of Irrevocable
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: assets from the cost of long term care while still
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the common misunderstandings about a revocable
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: trusts and how they actually work. It explains why many
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: families use these trusts as part of a broader plan
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: find information about how these trusts work, what types of
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why the details
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: matter when it comes to protecting what you've built. Get
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: your free guide today call Cushing and Dolan at eight
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six nine nine. That's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online at Legal exchangshow dot com.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: I'm Michael Vlila, adjedent of the Disabled American Veterans Department
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: of Massachusetts. The DAV of Massachusetts provides thousands of hours
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: of voluntary services at our VA medical centers and soldiers' homes,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: and is the only DAV department in the country to
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  Speaker 5: lead a veterans housing initiative for both single veterans and
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  Speaker 5: great American heroes by making a donation today. Please visit
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: DAV fivek dot Boston. That's DAV fivek dot Boston.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: It's the understanding, the intentions, and the family relationships left behind.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. For
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: many families, estate planning isn't just about who gets what.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: It's about communicating your values, explaining your decisions, and helping
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: to avoid misunderstandings after you're gone. Our new guide Talking
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: to your kids about inheritance explains why these conversations matter
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: and what to consider when fair and equal may not
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: mean the same thing. You'll learn strategies from managing expectations
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: and helping your family understand the thinking behind your plan.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Get your free guide today by calling eight hundred three
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred three
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: nine three for zero zero one, or you can request
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: it online at Armstrong Advisory dot com. That's Armstrong Advisory
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: dot com.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Protecting your assets from the cost of long
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: term care takes more than good intentions. It takes a plan.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide Unlocking the Power of a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: revocable Medicaid Trusts shows how these trusts can help protect
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: certain assets from nursing home costs without giving up everything
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you've worked so hard to build. You may be surprised
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to learn that you can continue living in your home,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: receive trust income, and still maintain important flexibility in your planning.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: The guide also explains how these trusts may help your
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: family avoid probate and preserve important tax benefits for future generations.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: If protecting your home, investments, or other assets is important
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to you, request your free guide today. Call Cushing and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Dolan at eight sixty six eight four eight five six
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: ninety nine that's eight six six eight four eight five
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or requested online at Legal Exchange show
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for and the views
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: not endorse each other and are not affiliated. You're listening
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: to the Legal Exchange and it's time for Ask Todd,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the segment where Todd will answer your questions about anything
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and everything that's included in the estate planning process. Once again,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Michael in Smithfield, Rhode Island.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: In Michael writs, my mother is in a nursing home
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: and on Medicaid. I am her only beneficiary. And I
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: understand that the state placed a lean on our house.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: What's the process of clearing this lean after she passed?
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Do I need to sell the house? Or can I
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: use other money that I have to pay it off?
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: So this sounds like no planning was done. But the
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: good news here is, and he's already learning this, that
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: the home is like a special asset. So when there's
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: no planning done, you're still able to, you know, not
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: have the home be countable to prevent her from getting
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: on medicaid because she's on medicaid. According to these facts,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: and yes, while you're single and you're able to get
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: on medicaid like mom did. Here, they're going to put
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: a lien on the house and they indicated that. So
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: but it sounds bad, but it's actually not bad. That's
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: why I'm trying to.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: It's a beneficial tool. For sure.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: It's a beneficial tool because Medicaid, let's say it's sixteen
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: grand a month when you're on medic when you're in
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: the nursing home, private paying but when you're on Medica paid,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe it's more like seven. Yep, well that's
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: a big savings, sure is. And remember if mom's getting
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: three thousand a month in Social Security now it's seven
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: minus three is four. So now the lean that we're
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: talking about trying to release here is only running up
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: at a rate of four thousand dollars a month.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: So little less than fifty grand a year.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine versus sixteen thousand a month if you
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: had sold the house and paid privately. So this is
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: why you need to understand that if you've done no planning,
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: please don't write the check to the nursing home, or
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: sell your house or do anything without getting.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Help pick up the phone.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: So at least here they must have done something to say,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: you know, this is better because now the lian on
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: my house is only four thousand a month. That's manageable, right, manageable,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: and she's on Medicaid. However, when she passes, there's going
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: to be And by the way, this is why I
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: would not sell it during life either, because then you
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: got to pay the lien off and then she's gonna
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: have all this money.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And you do another scramble.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a capital gain likely, so you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: you get this capital gains tax problem. Whereas now by
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: holding the house, I don't know if the kid's living
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: there or not living there, But by holding the house
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: until she dies, the state will have a lien and
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: it will need to be paid back.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So let's say it's two years and she's one hundred grand.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: I mean a house in Rhode Island, it's got to
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: be worth eight hundred nine hundred thousand. I mean everything's expensive.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: So let's just say it's a million. If the house
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: has worth a million and you have a one hundred
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars lian on it, who cares. I now, as
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: a kid can go take out a thirty year mortgage
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: on one hundred thousand dollars house, would be more than
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: happy to give it to me. They got tons of
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: equity and pay off the state, and now I have
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: the house.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Does it have to come from the house or if
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: he had one hundred grand, oh, he could pay He
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: can pay that with that, He could absolutely pay it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I was just assuming they can't have any money, but
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: absolutely could. So you know, to me, that's a home run.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: And the second home run is even if the kid
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't want the house, he could sell it now, full
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: step up in basis on death, eliminating all the built
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: in capital gain. And likely someone on medicaid probably doesn't
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: have an estate tax liability, either at the federal or
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: the state level, so they have one on both the
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: income and the estate tax side, and the medicaid side. Yep.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Really even with no planning. But of course, folks, that
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: would have been way better had they set up this
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: medicaid irrevocable trust and put the house in there, they'd
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: have none of these headaches, they'd no leans, they'd have
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the house in there. Mom could have been living in there,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: and you'll see what this trust is. A question and
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: answer guide that allows you to understand how it works.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: She could have lived there, She could have paid her bills,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: she could have sold her house, she could have bought
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: another house. They explain in this guide how all that
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: works and how all the taxes work with it. Question answer,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: how these irrevocable trusts work. From soup to nuts. Folks
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: about thirty five questions. Call and get the guide. You'll
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: know once and for all whether this trust is right
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: for you. Eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Unlocking the
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Power of Irrevocable Trusts eight six six eight four eight
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Last question comes from Barbara and Framingham, mass And Barbara writes,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: my mother is ninety and has lived with my sister
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: for seven years. She gets around two thousand a month
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: in social security social Security and basically gives it all
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to my sister to care for her. She only has
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: ten thousand in a savings account. I heard you speaking
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: about personal care contracts recently. If my mother doesn't own
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: a house, does she still need a personal care contract
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: with my sister with the money that's been paid to
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: my sister over the past seven years need to be
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: paid back if she goes into a nursing home. So
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Mom's living with her sister It sounds.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, sounds like Mom lives with her sister. Mom
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: doesn't own any real estate assets. Not really sure mom
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: has Yeah, she's got ten thousand dollars. So mom's mom
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: would normally be I say, Mom, it's yea, it's mom. Mom.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Mom would normally be eligible eligible for Medicaid right away.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: So if she got sick, she could go into the
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: nursing home be eligible for Medicaid right away. Why because
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars she just buys a funeral, pay prepays
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: her funeral for eight nine thousand dollars. She's left for
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: one thousand dollars, and as long as she has less
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: than two thousand dollars of assets, she'd be eligible for
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Medicaid right away. Yeah. Problem is she's creating a disqualifying
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: situation for herself every month, every month, right So by
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: paying her who's she paying her her d? She's paying
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: her daughter. So she's paying her daughter to in essence,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: provide care for her. She's really not. She's just saying, listen,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: you take my money because I feel bad that you're
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: you know, and what happens when you do that is,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: you know, when you go to apply for Medicaid, they're
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: gonna ask for five years worth of your bank statements,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: and they're gonna see these ongoing transfers out of her
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: account to her daughter, and you know, they're not gonna
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: you know, they're gonna say, well, what are they for?
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: And I don't think it'll matter. It's it's gonna look
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: like a gift because it went to the daughter, and
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: you didn't get something back of fair market value in return,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: She's gonna say, oh, no, no, I was paying her
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: to care for me. Except when you have a loved
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: one providing care for you, the government says that you
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: are doing that out of love and affection, not to
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: get paid, because it's irrelative. Because it's irrelative. So you know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: you have to overcome that presumption. How do you do
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: that personal care contract. If you don't do this personal
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: care contract, every one of those will be disqualifying transfers,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: which will be five year look back periods, or you
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: do the calculation of the penalty period. But either way
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: you're going to be denied Medicaid for a period of time,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: right or put the money back. So in this case,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: I would say for her, set up a personal care contract.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Get this clock started on that. Yeah, you can in there.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: You need to put you know, how many hours a
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: week you work? You need to show and if you
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: live there, that's easy. You could be twenty four to seven.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Help the type of care that you're doing. What is
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: it that you're actually doing for this person? How long
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: you think this is going to go on for, and
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: how you're going to get paid and the rate at
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: what you're getting paid hourly, bi weekly, monthly, all that,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: put that in the contract, sign it, and then start
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: accepting the money and report that money on your income
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: tax return care provider. This arrangement, if you put all
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: that together, that sort of transforms this love and affection
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: relationship that would be the transfers would be considered disqualifying
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: to an actual business where you're now getting fair market
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: value in exchange for what you received, not disqualifying transfer.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Do that. Another thing you folks should do is call
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: and get this guide on irrevocable Trust so things that
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: are in here are already protected. It's a question and
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: answer format that will allow you to fully understand how
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: this trust works on a day today basis for You
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: can get it eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com and
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: you can download it right there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Tod,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the legal
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: exchange with Todd Ludsky.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power but Revocable
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: assets from the cost of long term care while still
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the common mess understand things about
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: irrevocable trusts and how they actually work. It explains why
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: many families use these trusts as part of a broader
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: play and to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: you'll also find information about how these trust work, what
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: types of assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the details matter when it comes to protecting what you've built.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Get your free guide today. Call Cushing and Dolan at
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online at legal exchainshow dot com.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan in
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: it's the legacy you leave behind.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. For
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: many families and inheritance represents more than assets. It reflects
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: a lifetime of hard work, values, and the hope of
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: helping future generations. Our new guide Talking to your Kids
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: about Inheritance explains why sharing your intent can be just
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: as important as the estate plan itself. The documents may
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: determine where your assets go, but a conversation can help
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: your family understand why. You'll discover ways to talk with
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: your children about your wishes and help them learn what
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: matters most to you while working to create a stronger
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: foundation for their future. You can get your free guide
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: today by calling eight hundred three nine three four zero
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: zero one. That's eight hundred three nine three four zero
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: zero one. Are requested at Armstrong Advisory dot com. That's
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Protecting your assets doesn't always mean giving up control.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Get Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the power of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a revocable Medicaid trusts. Learn how to protect your assets
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: while maintaining planning flexibility. Get your free guide today by
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: calling eight six six eight four eighty five six ninety nine,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: or requested online that Legal Exchange show dot com. The
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for and the views expressed there solely
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan int Or
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated. For veterans, every day is
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: a commitment to service. This Veterans Day weekend, be part
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: of something meaningful at the DAV five K Boston join
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the thousands of runners and walkers at Fort Independence on
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Castle Island for a day of community remembrance and gratitude.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Proceeds help fund the programs and services provided by the
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts. To register or make
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: a donation, please visit DAV five K dot Boston. That's
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: DAV five K dot Boston. Your tune to the Legal
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If you are a loved one
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: needs a nursing homestay, call Todd right now at eight
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: let him make sure your assets are protected. That's eight
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: six six eight for eight five six nine nine, or
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: visit him online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: Todd.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: This guide this month all about unlocking the power of
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: irrevocable trusts.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna you this is a question and answer guide.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: It is I'm gonna keep going.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Should I say that's my favorite guide. No, don't say that.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: It's they're all your favorites. They are, They're all your
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: favorite kids, because say that right? All right? These specific trusts.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Do these irrevocable trusts protect assets from the cost of
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: long term care? And how long does it take?
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: So the answer is they do, and not only can
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: we say that now we're feeling way better since the
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court case in Massachusetts that came down many years ago.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: It's really playing out over the years showing that they
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: that these trust to work. But before I remember, there
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: was all this concern, oh they don't work. That they work. So, yes,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: they do protect it from the nursing home. But you
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: got to not only create it, draft it correctly, which
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: is very important, and you have to fund it. And
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: that's where the five year waiting period comes in. So
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: when you transfer the assets to the trust, that triggers
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: the start of this five year lookback period. The reason
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: I'm just throwing out the five year lookback period and
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: not running through any kind of a calculation is it
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter how much because this clock starts to run
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: immediately by putting it into the trust, and you have
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: a five year waiting period regardless of how much you
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: put in. Now, if you don't make the five years,
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: there might be something I can calculate for you, but
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I just want to give you the general five year
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: waiting rule.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: So five years. And you know, you get comments from
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: people sometimes saying, oh, you're working the system by doing this.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: We've heard it.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Making sure what that means.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Well, meaning that you've got all this money in your trust,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: but you're not paying your way. My whole view of
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: this is you're going by their rules. This five year
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: clock is their rules. So they're basically asking the question
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: they meaning the nursing home Medicaid, have you given anything
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: away in the past five years that otherwise would have
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: been available to pay for your care? They see the trust,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: they see what's in it. You're not hiding anything from this.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and I agree with you. I think
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: the answer here is that you know, you said it
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: one way the way people say it right, I say,
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: wait a minute, how are you working the system? You
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: mean we're basically following the rules that the state put
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: together to say, here's what you're allowed to do provided
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: you follow these rules.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, how is that?
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: That's we're just following their instructions, their rules, right?
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: These exist for a reason. So I think you're right.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: That's all you need to do is follow their rules.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So you made a comment in past shows about if
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: you're if you're giving away assets and it's within the
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: past five years, then there's a penalty period that would
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: be assessed if you go to apply for medicaid. How
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: is that transfer penalty computed?
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: So two things here. One the first comment is you
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: give it away, right? And let's just say, I'm just
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: to follow up on your last question a minute. I
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: was thinking about it. What if you never did any
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: of these trust planning and you just made gifts to
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: your children, right, Well, you didn't work the system, but
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: in essence you did because you same thing, you gave
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: it away. I don't recommend that. I think we don't
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: recommend that. I want you to keep control of your assets,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: which is why the trust is here. But people just
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: give stuff away.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Spoiler alert. When you give stuff to your kids, it'll
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: be gone. It's not going to be there when you
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: need it.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: You want to talk about irrevocability, that's irrevocable. Okay, Now
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: back to your questions.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Actually, have you offer this guide out first, and then
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go back and ask you that question.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: And because it's so important, I want people to make
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: sure they get it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's gonna be a calculation there, folks. But
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: we're just sort of now touching the tip of the
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: iceberg of all the questions and answers that exist in
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: this Unlocking the power of Medicaid Irrevocable trusts In essence, folks,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: there's so many questions and answers about how you can live,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: how you can sell, how the money gets invested, how
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: you pay taxes, every question you can think of. I'm
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: just going to say, if you need ever wanted to
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: know if this trust was right for you, this guide
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: will tell you when you're done right or wrong. You'll
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: know eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Download it there again,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Unlocking the Power of irrevocable Trusts eight six six eight
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: dot Com.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, Let's say you've given your money away to
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: your kids, and then you're like, oh, I got no
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: more money left. Oh bad news. I have to go
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: to the nursing home and you apply for medicaid.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: So you'll be denied, not knowing any other facts, assuming
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: you've met the other financial eligibility requirements, you would be
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: denied simply because of this gift. Now. I say that
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: because if you're single and you've made a gift of
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know, say two hundred thousand, and you have
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: less than two thousand dollars left yep, then they're going
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: to calculate. Then they're going to deny you because of
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: the gift. But if you gave away two hundred thousand
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: dollars and you still had another two hundred thousand in
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: your pocket, yep, you now would be denied because you
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: have more than two thousand dollars in your pocket. So
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: over assets, right, you'd be denied because you're over assets.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't even look at the two hundred thousand you
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: gave away. That wouldn't even come into play. They would say,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: take care of the two hundred thousand that you have
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: first and then apply, and then they'll deny.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: You because you gave it away.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: They're not going to tell you this.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Then what would happen is then they would deny you
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: because now if you have no other assets, now you're
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: denied because of the waiting, because of the look back period.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: So how this works is they simply take the two
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand that you gave away and divide it by
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: the average cost of nursing home care in the state
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: that they set. That number today, I believe is close
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: to they're using, I think a number close to thirteen
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: fourteen thousand, thirteen thousand a month, I think is what
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: they're using to calculate. So you divide the two hundred
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: thousand by the thirteen and then you would get a
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: number of months that you're disqualified, and then they would
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: tell you that you can, and that's going to be
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: way less than sixty months. Yeah, right, So you think, wow,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: it's less than five years months Just for say it
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: comes to fifteen months, you're disqualified for fifteen months, not
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: sixty You say, oh, that sounds great, Yeah, except the
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: fifteen months didn't start to run when you transferred the
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: assets to the trust. Like the five year clock starts
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: to run when you transfer the assets to the trust,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: this shorter calculated penalty period begins to run on the
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: day you apply for medicaid. Are eligible for Medicaid, but
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: for this bad transfer, now they would start the clock running.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Ok So now that if you applied today, they'd say
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: come back fifteen months later. And if you come back
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: fifteen months later, you will have spent all the money
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: that you gave away in order to cover the fifteen
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: month waiting.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: At the kids don't have that money anymore, so nothing left,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: nothing good comes in it. Don't ever do this on your.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Own, right, yeah? Oh gosh, no, please don't start applying
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: for medicaid, making gifts and all that on your own.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Not a good idea.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you've got anybody out there that is
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: thinking about giving assets to a kid to protect them
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: from the nursing home, you don't gain anything versus using
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: a trust. Right, say it.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Was in the trust the two hundred thousand, You still
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: have the same five year waiting period, or you still
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: have the same fifteen months if you get sick before
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: the five years is up. But if you get sick
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: before the five years is up, at least you can
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: put the money back because you know it's there right right,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: So if you can get the money back through the
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: arrangements of the trust, now you can do some last
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: minute medicaid planning. Remember there's always things that can be
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: done last minute.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Never as good as getting this irrevocable medicaid trust that
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: we're given away in the guide up and running. But
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: in case you either don't make the five year waiting
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: period or or more importantly, even if you do, you're
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: always going to have assets left over. There's always some
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: things we can do to save those assets or slow
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: the bleeding on those assets last minute when you're applying
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: for medicaid, so you.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Keep your options open, you do rather than closing the
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: door of oh go have a nice vacation kid.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: The messages folks don't don't please, don't apply for medicaid
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: on your own, and don't plan on your own. Get
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: some information for yourself. Get this guide and see if
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: these irrevocable Medicaid trusts are actually right for you or not.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: This question and answer guide will give you that answer
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: or legal exchange show dot com and you can download
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: the guide right there.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us today and
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on the Legal Exchange
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power of but
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: revocable Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: certain assets from the cost of long term care while
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: still allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: guide breaks down some of the common misunderstandings about a
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: revocable trusts and how they actually work. It explains why
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: many families use these trusts as part of a broader
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: plan to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: also find information about how these trust work, what types
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: of assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why the
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: details matter when it comes to protecting what you've built.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Get your free guide today. Call Cushing and Dolan at
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: eight sixty six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online at legal exchainshow dot com.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan Intoor
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: other and are not af feeling.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: It's the understanding, the intentions and the family relationships left behind.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: HI.
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. For
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: many families, estate planning isn't just about who gets what.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: It's about communicating your values, explaining your decisions, and helping
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: to avoid misunderstandings after you're gone. Our new guide Talking
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: to your Kids about Inheritance explains why these conversations matter
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: and what to consider when fair and equal may not
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: mean the same thing. You'll learn strategies from managing expectations
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: and helping your family understand the thinking behind your plan.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Get your free guide today by calling eight hundred three
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred three
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: nine three for zero zero one, or you can request
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: it online at Armstrong Advisory dot com. That's Armstrong Advisory
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: dot com.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment advisory.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Protecting your assets doesn't always mean giving up control. Get
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Cushion Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the power of a revocable
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts. Learn how to protect your assets while maintaining
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: planning flexibility. Get your free guide today by calling eight
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six nine nine, or
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  Speaker 1: requested online at Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding
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  Speaker 1: was paid for and the views expressed are solely those
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  Speaker 1: of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan Into or Armstrong
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  Speaker 1: and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
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  Speaker 1: and are not affiliated. Every mile can make a difference
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  Speaker 1: for a Massachusetts veteran. The DAV five k Boston returns
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  Speaker 1: to Castle Island on Saturday, November seventh for a family
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  Speaker 1: friendly day of community remembrance and support. Whether you run
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  Speaker 1: the five k, join the one mile walk, or make
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: a donation, your participation helps further the mission of the
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts honor those who served.
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  Speaker 1: Sign up today at DAV fivek dot Boston. That's DAV
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  Speaker 1: five k dot Boston.