Latest / Sarah Knows Support Workers / NDIS Compliance & Auditing Explained: How Australian Providers Can Turn Audits Into a Growth Strategy

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NDIS Compliance & Auditing Explained: How Australian Providers Can Turn Audits Into a Growth Strategy · Sarah Knows Support Workers

0:00
It's Sarah. No support workers today.
0:01
I got Katura. We're back, we're ready.
0:03
I can't wait to tell everybody in this podcast all the mischief
0:07
that you're up to. So let's just crack a like and
0:09
let's get straight into it. What?
0:11
What makes you start a business in this sector out of all crazy
0:15
sectors? Of all the things to do, I know.
0:19
Look, I fell into the sector nearly 20 years ago and have
0:24
been working for a variety of organizations since then.
0:28
And look, I think it was one of those things I'd, I'd always
0:31
wanted to do something myself. I'd always wanted to start my
0:35
own business, but the timing was never right.
0:38
There was always something else going on, usually in my own life
0:43
rather than in my work life, that just meant that it wasn't
0:46
the right time for me to do it. And then funnily enough, it was
0:49
life circumstances that that ended up being the instigator
0:52
for me actually making the move when I did, which was, you know,
0:55
just over 18 months ago now. Yeah.
0:58
Just just really looking at trying to find some balance.
1:02
I worked for an amazing organization who were really
1:05
supportive and really flexible, but I was going through some
1:08
pretty significant stuff in my life.
1:12
I was diagnosed with a chronic condition.
1:14
I have neurodivergent kids, and my eldest was just about to
1:17
start high school. And so timing, I just kind of
1:20
felt like I was doing really great in the organization that I
1:24
was working for, but felt like I had all these diva demands that
1:29
I was kind of trying to, you know, I was, I was asking for a
1:33
lot of flexibility, which they were happy to give.
1:35
But there was still something inside of me that was just like,
1:37
you know, I really feel like I'm stretching the friendship a
1:41
little bit. And I had the opportunity, I had
1:43
some really great support around me to be able to step back from
1:48
a nine to five will be at a flexible 9:00 to 5:00 and to be
1:52
able to focus on on me and my family a bit more.
1:55
But I'm not very good at not doing anything.
1:58
So in that moment, in those quieter moments whilst I was
2:03
focusing on myself, I started a business.
2:06
Just as you do. In your quiet moments.
2:09
It's like when everything comes out for me, I've done the same
2:12
like you. It's kind of like that pivot,
2:14
pivot moment that you've gotten. It's like that jump start that
2:18
you kind of needed that you didn't, even at times I didn't
2:20
even know I needed, but I got it anyway.
2:23
Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
2:25
It's the, it's the universal push in the right direction that
2:29
just sort of everything happened so that it was the right time
2:32
really. So when you were working inside
2:35
the organization organisations, what problems keep showing up
2:39
and again and again that you just have to tackle?
2:41
Look, I think really in a lot of cases it comes down to
2:45
organisations having systems that are designed for
2:49
compliance, not designed for successful business management
2:53
or business growth or not designed for them specifically.
2:57
So in a lot of cases I've either worked for in my own business or
3:01
or worked for organisations when I was when I was working as an
3:05
employee where there's a lot of additional work that's in place
3:10
or that needs to happen. A lot of busy work that's
3:12
happening in the back end to try and make the systems that have
3:15
been implemented really work and really provide the value that
3:19
they can do for, you know, that really strong foundation that
3:23
organisations need to build from.
3:26
And I think sometimes when their systems that have been put in
3:29
place is a catch all from a compliance perspective,
3:33
sometimes they're the wrong size for the organization, they're
3:36
the wrong fit. And it's like that, you know,
3:39
when you try on clothes that are one-size-fits-all, they either
3:43
don't fit because you're not the size that they anticipated when
3:47
they created it, or they have to be big enough to fit most
3:53
people. And therefore you end up with
3:55
all these extra material that's flapping about in the breeze.
3:57
And I think it's a similar thing with with quality systems where
4:01
you end up with superfluous policies or procedures or
4:04
registers or, or systems or processes that you then have to
4:08
manage as an organization but are actually not helpful for you
4:12
at all. They're just creating more work.
4:15
They don't make you more compliant, but I think people
4:18
get scared that if they refine or reduce things that they'll
4:22
end up cutting off compliance in the process.
4:25
So it's finding that balance and really creating systems that
4:28
have built for you that are built for the organization.
4:31
Is it kind of cool because you get to be like, wait, hold up,
4:34
there's a better way. Follow me Like do do you get to
4:38
do things like? That yeah, absolutely.
4:40
And look, I think it can be really liberating.
4:43
I think there's a lot of fear mongering in the sector around
4:47
compliance and around, you know, the auditors are coming and I've
4:51
been an auditor before and I don't think I'm overly scary,
4:55
but I, I accept that, you know, I, I can see why it's a nerve
5:00
racking process, but I think being able to show people that
5:04
it doesn't have to be that scary.
5:06
And I think a lot of that comes from them understanding the
5:09
value of the systems that are in place and making them value, but
5:14
making them more than just a tick box process, which is where
5:17
the value is for each individual organization, for each provider.
5:21
It is funny, you're right, because people like, Oh no, the
5:23
auditors are coming And, and I, I, maybe I've always had that
5:27
mindset. Well, they should be able to
5:29
audit my paperwork any day of the week.
5:31
And if I'm not happy with and there's a problem that makes any
5:34
sense, like I love auditing like I, it sounds so cheesy, but I
5:38
did because then I was like, well, where do I sit on the
5:40
benchmark? Like is am I hey low?
5:43
Like what am I working towards? I didn't have like any KPIs on
5:46
it or any crap like that, but I was just more curious of where
5:49
my work could lead me. Do you find that people get
5:52
excited about audit? Like is there a percentage of
5:54
people that enjoy auditing? I am one of those people.
5:57
I like to think there are other people out there.
5:59
So you've made me feel good that I'm not alone.
6:01
Look, I think there are, and I think there are more, probably
6:05
more people that actually feel that way than they realize.
6:09
I think there are a lot of people that are stuck in that,
6:11
that anxiety, that fear around it, where if they actually
6:15
switched their mindset about it and went, this is actually an
6:18
opportunity for me to showcase what I do, for me to go check
6:23
out all the awesome stuff that we do here.
6:26
These are our clients, these systems that we use to help us.
6:29
This is how we find out what's working and what's not.
6:32
These are the cool things we've changed because people gave us
6:35
feedback and instead of going, instead of seeing it as a test,
6:39
see it as AI say performance. But yeah, as a showcase, as as
6:43
an opportunity, and then people come back and go, there's a bit
6:48
of a gap here, you know, Or have you considered doing it this
6:51
way? There's there's opportunities
6:53
for improvement. And of course, there are things
6:54
that you have to be compliant with.
6:56
We can't get around it. But there's no one formula.
7:00
There's no one recipe for that. And when people feel empowered
7:04
to be able to apply their own culture, their own real values
7:08
of their organization, what they want to these systems, they
7:12
become some something so much different than something that
7:15
someone else created that you're going to come and get tested on.
7:18
It's less of a test, yeah. Well, I feel like it's a really
7:21
good opportunity to explore your teamwork that you've got because
7:24
you've all got to be in it together.
7:26
Like there is that. It's kind of like a Henry Ford
7:28
factory where everyone plays a role to get to get to your
7:32
policies and procedures, making sure that they're in line.
7:35
And you need us all to work together to see that it is going
7:38
where it's meant to be going. We're doing what we're meant to
7:40
be doing and when we succeed it, we all party, we all celebrate.
7:44
It's because we followed what we needed to do to be successful.
7:47
Yeah, absolutely. It's that, you know, everybody
7:50
coming together as a community and working towards it.
7:53
I liken it to work health and safety quality being similar in
7:57
that it doesn't just sit with one or a few people in the
8:00
organization. You can't actually be successful
8:02
at it if you don't have systems built in and the understanding
8:06
across the organization that means that people know what
8:09
their role is in it. Policies and procedures don't
8:13
make you compliant. People who are having access to
8:15
policies and procedures that guide how they work every day,
8:19
that are useful and valuable to them to be able to go to and go.
8:23
Now I understand where I begin and end because I've got access
8:27
to these cool things that that tell me what's expected of me
8:30
and that give me some really cool guidelines to work within
8:33
and actually doing that and understanding them.
8:35
That's where compliance is. You know, it's, it's whilst
8:38
there's all of these, you know, things that happening in the
8:41
background. It really happens with each
8:43
individual in an organization understanding how they
8:47
contribute really. Well, it makes me also think
8:50
because you interview external, you interview our stakeholders,
8:54
they're our people that we serve as well.
8:56
Get interviewed during the process.
8:58
Some people are a bit nervous about that.
9:00
I'm, I dare say that we're on the same page here, but I find
9:04
like this is a really opportunity to empower somebody
9:07
for the services that they have. Have you found that when you've
9:09
been auditing? Yeah, absolutely.
9:12
Interviews tend to make everybody a bit nervous, whether
9:15
that's participants who've been who've who've opted in to be
9:18
interviewed and and chosen for interview or even workers who
9:21
end up being part of that interview process.
9:23
And I think really what it comes down to is, is being really
9:27
truthful and honest. And auditors aren't.
9:30
The job isn't to catch people out.
9:32
It's not to try and trick people or, you know, that they
9:36
shouldn't be shouldn't be convoluted questions yet that
9:40
make you have to rack your brain for answers.
9:43
And I think some people feel really overwhelmed by thinking
9:48
that they have to know all of the answers in order to get it
9:52
right, I guess. And sometimes, you know, for
9:56
look for clients, participants being involved, really what you
9:59
want is their honest feedback. If they don't understand how to
10:02
access your feedback processes or if if they feel like they're,
10:08
you know, not being heard or there are issues, you want to
10:11
know those things as a provider, that's gold.
10:14
That's where you improve your services for support workers and
10:17
other people who are involved in interview.
10:19
Really it's about knowing the information, if you do knowing
10:24
or knowing where to find it if you don't.
10:26
So if in order to ask you a question, I don't know, but I
10:29
know where to go to find it is a really valid response.
10:33
It's not the wrong answer. It's really showing that you've
10:36
not only got the information, but when you don't know you've
10:40
got the right supports and strategies in place, the
10:42
structure in place to in the right direction.
10:45
So with auditing, what has it taught you so far when it comes
10:49
to life skills outside of auditing?
10:50
Has it taught you to have really good files on your computer
10:54
like, or has it given you any skill sets that you've taken
10:56
outside? 2 days ago my laptop died.
11:00
I've spent the last, well I spent the 1st 24 hours after it
11:03
happened trying to fix it and the most recent 24 hours setting
11:07
up my new laptop because I couldn't fix it.
11:10
But I did think about it earlier today and go.
11:12
I'm so glad I do what I do because I've got everything.
11:15
I've got all of my data, everything backed up.
11:18
I've got all of my information there.
11:20
I don't know how much that comes from auditing per SE, but I
11:23
mean, yeah, look, I, like I said before, I enjoy auditing.
11:27
I've audited my own social media use in the past.
11:30
Yeah. I have, I'll admit it.
11:33
And I've actually, it resulted in me uninstalling apps from my
11:37
phone. Yeah, yeah.
11:38
I did an audit of my Facebook feed based on how many of the
11:43
posts were actually from people that I knew.
11:46
So people who I was connected to directly, how many were
11:49
sponsored, how many were things that I wasn't interested in at
11:52
all. And I did.
11:55
I can't remember how many posts, it was quite a few.
11:57
It didn't take long to scroll through them all.
12:00
But what I found was that majority of them were ads and
12:03
things that I actually wasn't interested in.
12:05
And very few of them. I think out of about 150 posts I
12:09
scrolled through, I think there was maybe 3 that were from my
12:13
friends or family. And maybe it's just because I
12:16
don't have a lot of connections and my friends and family aren't
12:18
very active on Facebook, but. It's a, it's a whole thing.
12:22
You're right. Because they were saying that a
12:24
lot more people when it comes to social media are following
12:27
because what's the point? Yeah, I'll come across your
12:29
content anyway. So a lot of people don't press
12:31
the follow button because they'll see it through their
12:34
feed and they get there a dopamine and then they move on.
12:37
They don't hold on to you. Yeah, it's interesting.
12:39
But yes, so absolutely, I use auditing has got a lot has has
12:45
influenced my life in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways.
12:48
I'm a little bit impressed. Thank you, I can send you my
12:51
results if you'd like. I'll have to see if it makes the
12:54
benchmark. Review the data.
12:57
Yeah, absolutely happy to be audited on my social media
13:00
audit. What gives you the confidence to
13:03
build your own empire and you know, like to build your own
13:06
empire? Because not everyone can do it.
13:09
Look, I think for me it's I see it may be less as an empire and
13:13
more as a community that grows together.
13:16
And I think what gives me the confidence to do it is the
13:21
people that I connect with and that I work with.
13:23
And, and knowing that, knowing that I can make a difference and
13:27
that I can support people, whether that's through them
13:30
having a better understanding of, of quality management,
13:33
because it's not a lot of fun in a lot of cases.
13:35
Like people don't go, yay, tell me more.
13:39
So if I can frame it in a way that helps people to
13:42
contextualise it makes it really easy for them to absorb, but
13:46
also makes it less, less dry, more meaningful and, and
13:52
actually links it to really good outcomes.
13:54
Then I guess that's the thing for me, that's the driver for
13:58
me. The driver for me is, is helping
14:01
people and certainly helping people who help people, but a
14:05
little bit of a, a roadie in that sense.
14:09
I set up all your equipment and I'll help you tune you tune your
14:13
guitar. And so do you sound check and
14:16
stuff for you, you know, But you need to let me know what it is
14:19
that you want to sing. What?
14:20
What's on your playlist? What what do you want to sound
14:23
like as an organization? And I'll help you pull together
14:26
a really good show. And that I enjoy doing that.
14:30
I love doing that. So yeah, for me it's the passion
14:33
to really help people that's driven me.
14:36
So I'm sorry, I'm having a giggle because I'm like, if
14:37
you're the roadie, I must be the groupie.
14:41
Cool. I like it.
14:42
I love it. Anyone listening what does
14:45
quality HQ stand for? In a philosophical way.
14:49
Go for it. I'm only as.
14:51
Yeah. Look, it's really about making
14:53
compliance inevitable rather than making compliance this
14:57
ongoing goal. It's making, you know, helping
15:01
organizations to understand quality really well, to
15:04
understand the value of it and how it improves their
15:07
organization, their capacity for growth and scale, but growth and
15:11
scale that is supportive of their workforce and their client
15:14
outcomes. And so it takes all of these
15:16
things that people value and their culture and creates A
15:20
framework that means that that is scalable in their
15:23
organizations. It doesn't get left behind when
15:26
they grow. It also doesn't get left behind
15:28
when the, you know, the sector goes, you'll never guess what.
15:32
We're changing this and we're doing this, and we're doing the
15:34
other thing because it's your structure.
15:37
Yeah. Oh, look, there's still tweaks
15:39
that need to be made. But when it's your structure
15:41
that you've created that you've got confidence in, there's
15:44
really less of a panic because you understand where those
15:47
changes integrate with the system that you've got, because
15:50
you know your system, you know your framework.
15:52
And so for you, for organizations that have got it
15:56
in place, making those changes when they hit is it doesn't feel
16:00
like a complete restructure because they've got that
16:03
foundation in place. So really, yeah, it is really
16:07
about helping people. You said before you were talking
16:10
about people having these aha moments.
16:12
I mean, that's what I kind of, that's what I live for is, is
16:15
helping people have aha moments. Is it like when you talk about
16:19
aha moments? Is it really cool getting when
16:21
you first start with a small provider and then slowly
16:24
watching them scale to where they are today?
16:27
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think, you know that, that
16:31
watching people's confidence grow, you know, just in, in
16:35
their, you know, their systems and their structure, but in
16:37
their mindset as well. Yeah.
16:39
And that confidence that comes with that is yeah, is great.
16:43
That's why I do it. Yeah, absolutely.
16:45
Would be really a rewarding and then because in the beginning
16:48
people need you more and then as time progresses it just slowly,
16:53
gradually drifts away, if that makes any sense.
16:55
Because in the beginning is always hard.
16:57
Yeah, Oh, percent. And I've said, you know, my, my
17:00
goal in my job is to do myself out of a job, which doesn't
17:04
sound like a great business model, let's be honest.
17:06
But my goal is, is not to make people dependent on me.
17:09
My goal is to make people independent and have the
17:13
capacity and the confidence and the understanding and structure
17:17
built in their organization that that they can run with so they
17:21
don't need to keep coming back to me, that they slowly create
17:24
this capacity internally. That means that, yeah, I can
17:27
release them into the wild. Is there like any like is there
17:31
anything that providers make a mistake on commonly that you see
17:35
as when it comes to it? Oh look, probably the biggest
17:38
things that I see providers get stuck on or feel stuck on a
17:47
policies and procedures 2 two things policies and procedures
17:50
risk. That that's why, you know, we're
17:52
all support workers at play, right?
17:54
We we enjoy people. Exactly.
17:56
Well, absolutely, I thought. We do best.
17:58
Totally get it, who wants policies and procedures?
18:01
But yeah, look, I think in a lot of cases and in the sector that
18:04
we've we're in, a lot of providers have purchased their
18:07
policies and procedures. And whilst I understand why they
18:12
often end up with policies and procedures that are similarly to
18:16
what I said before, they're they've been created to as a
18:18
catch all and they've been created specifically for
18:22
compliance, not for your organization, not for your
18:25
culture, not for your systems, not for the way you want to run
18:30
your organization. And in a lot of cases, they're
18:32
purchased with these caveats built in, like whatever you do,
18:36
don't change them or they won't be compliant.
18:39
And the, the reality is, is if you don't change them, they're
18:42
not compliant. Not that if you do, but there's
18:45
again, coming back to that fear that people have of not, of
18:49
either not being compliant in the 1st place or undoing
18:52
something that was compliant. It's that I don't know what, I
18:54
don't know problem. But I think organizations have
18:58
really busy policy and procedure manuals that they're responsible
19:01
for reviewing and updating, but that they actually don't know
19:05
where to begin and end. It's like, what do I review and
19:07
update it? I know it's compliant.
19:09
I've been told not to touch it. I'm a little bit worried about
19:12
it, but also they end up with all of these this dispersed
19:15
workforce that are out there doing these amazing things, but
19:19
that if they don't have a solid policy and procedure suite of
19:22
documents to guide them are constantly on the phone to
19:26
different people. Hey, I've got a client that
19:28
needs I need, I need, I need. How do I, how do I and if they
19:33
could create that really solid document suite to support them,
19:37
that's their go to. It's, it's kind of like they're,
19:40
you know, it's their song sheet, it's the lyrics that they go to.
19:44
So everyone's singing the same song.
19:46
And I think the issue that people have and, and something
19:49
that I've come up against before is people going, well, you're
19:52
either person centered or your system centered.
19:54
And that kind of does my head in a bit because your systems can
19:58
be person centered. And I think people go, I feel
20:01
like it's red tape and it's just, you know, there's no
20:03
person centered if you've got a policy that tells you how to do
20:06
it, but it's actually. How you create safe person
20:10
centered services and you support your workers to know
20:13
where they begin and end so they don't put themselves into
20:16
situations where they're like, oh, person centered, sure, you
20:20
can do whatever you like. I'll do whatever you ask, which
20:23
is really not. That's a massive risk to your
20:25
organization. It's a massive risk to that
20:27
worker and it's an even bigger risk to that client.
20:31
It's having person centered structure in place.
20:34
That's really where the gold sits.
20:36
IA 100% agree because there's if you have a really open-ended
20:39
one, it means that you could provide support to everybody.
20:43
And as a provider, we're not a one stop shop like we can't, we
20:47
have to be particular what we do well and do that well instead of
20:51
thinking that we could provide support to everybody because
20:54
everybody that comes through and who we support has all these
20:58
different disabilities and have different environmental things
21:02
that we as providers can't always get right and we are not
21:05
the right provider for it. Yeah.
21:07
Absolutely. And you know I said before that
21:10
the standards aren't a recipe, they're a serving suggestion,
21:13
right? They don't tell you exactly what
21:16
needs to go in, they just tell you what they want at the end.
21:19
This is person centered. Provide person centered services
21:22
to everyone. How you actually do that is up
21:24
to you as an organization. And if you've not written down
21:28
the expectations of your workers in your documentation and that's
21:32
expectations of practice, but as well as behaviour, how you
21:36
expect them to be with people. I want you to involve people.
21:39
What does involve people look like?
21:41
Like make it really obvious because then you can be really
21:44
confident in your organization, having that consistency in your
21:49
practice, but consistency in culture as well and in in what
21:53
you're wanting to provide to your, to your clients, not just
21:58
person centered services to everyone.
22:00
We're not the Oprah of person centered.
22:01
So you get person centers, you get person centered services,
22:04
but there's actually something meaningful behind that so that
22:07
everybody understands for your organization what person
22:10
centered services really means in practice.
22:13
And that's where it's really valuable. 100% because it's got
22:17
like it does have a bit of a personality and a language
22:20
around it. Because I have worked at
22:22
providers where I felt like I was opening War and Peace and I
22:25
was like, oh God, this is this is huge.
22:28
Like, you know, and then I've had others are like, Oh yeah, I
22:30
get you. And then like they've got, you
22:32
can see with certain founders the personality that comes out
22:36
with their policies and procedures and how it in lines
22:38
with that workplace. Like so when writing them, they
22:41
can be a little bit of fun. Like you can put things that are
22:44
really service based into them. Yep, absolutely.
22:47
They should be easy to read. They they should be.
22:51
Yeah, they should be. They're your guiding documents.
22:53
If if you don't have a conversation or say at least
22:57
once a week what does our policy say or what does the procedure
23:00
say, then your policies and procedures aren't written for
23:03
you. They're not.
23:05
If you're not referring to them constantly, then you don't have
23:10
a document suite that's actually valuable for your organization.
23:14
And that's, yeah, I'd love to help people to be able to
23:17
transition those. So how do you do it?
23:19
Like how do you build like a female LED business in a space
23:24
that can feel really corporate and really serious and kind of
23:27
stiff? But being really not corporate
23:30
and stiff, yeah, look, I think that I think in in Health and
23:34
Human services. So in the sectors that we work
23:36
in, I think it lends itself to being more human and and more
23:41
connected and having better conversations with people.
23:45
And so I think for me, it really comes down to being myself,
23:49
being my professional self. But really, part of my approach
23:53
is to bring humour is to bring. I do a lot of.
23:56
Storytelling I didn't pick. A lot of storytelling and
24:01
analogies and stuff. So I, I don't approach things
24:05
by, you know, by reading to people from the standards.
24:10
It's not how I how I my. Favorite sleep time?
24:14
Book. Yeah, exactly.
24:17
Yeah, If I want to really put people to sleep, I've got plenty
24:21
of resources to do that. But yeah, look, I think, I think
24:26
really it is about it is about having a a different approach
24:31
that meets that meets people where they are.
24:33
A lot of people in our sector aren't corporate and stiff and
24:37
you know, they they need and that's where they end up feeling
24:41
a barrier to quality management and compliance is because it
24:45
feels like that stuffed shirt stuff where you're like, I don't
24:48
get it, I don't understand it. So where I can make it and put
24:53
the human into it and help people to contextualize it so
24:58
that it feels applicable to what they're doing.
25:01
It feels applicable to the care sector that we're in.
25:04
I want to care for people. I don't want to talk about risk,
25:08
you know, I don't want to write policies.
25:10
I just want to help people when they can see how these things
25:14
really support what their goal is.
25:17
It just makes all the difference.
25:19
It's also uncovers your ass. Oh yeah.
25:23
Big time. Like, it's not like I'm very
25:28
good at, I'm not very good at expressing it, but it really
25:30
does. Because if you don't have
25:32
anything in play, then you're an open book.
25:35
And to allow some terrible things to happen to the people
25:38
that we provide care to. Yeah.
25:40
And it's the, the, you know, unfortunately there's been a lot
25:44
of stories in the media about organizations and in some cases
25:48
really well meaning organizations, but that that
25:51
really highlight the unfortunate part of the story, which is I
25:55
didn't know not being good enough, not being a solid
26:00
excuse. You know, that's where, you
26:04
know, a lot of these systems and strategies are safeguards.
26:07
Like you said, it really isn't. It's a processing covering my
26:11
ass. But you also can get fines like
26:14
through the roof if you don't have things in place.
26:16
Like there was a provider and then there's a provider out
26:19
there that had that somebody had passed away in care and they had
26:23
to go back and retrain all their staff because they weren't aware
26:28
of a certain way to support people.
26:31
And then they will find, yeah, a big amount and fairly so because
26:35
somebody passed away in care. Yep.
26:37
Yeah, absolutely. It does happen, it does happen
26:41
then, and you know, it works both ways as well, creating
26:46
strategies and frameworks that mean that all of your workers go
26:49
home to their families everyday life and, you know, not burnt
26:55
out and in a position to be able to play with their kids and go
27:01
on a date night with a partner. Is, is also, you know, you've,
27:05
you've got, when you're running an organization, you, you've got
27:08
a lot of people, you've got a lot of people that are looking
27:11
to you. And I recently was, was talking
27:14
about risk management. You know, we get up in the
27:16
morning and we majority of us have a hot drink and it's risky,
27:19
right? If you've ever seen me in a
27:21
kitchen, I can somehow burn myself on anything.
27:25
It's a skill, but I still risk having a hot drink every day.
27:28
And I could, you know, we've got we put strategies in place.
27:31
Maybe I put a bit of extra milk in or a little bit of cold water
27:33
to help me not burn myself on everything because I'm good at
27:36
it. You know, maybe people like
27:38
their coffee hotter, but when you're making decisions for
27:40
yourself to have a hot drink every morning, it's very
27:43
different to them going. I'm now responsible for all of
27:47
these workers and all of these clients to all have a hot drink.
27:50
And do I have the same appetite for that risk or not?
27:53
And that's where things become a lot more grey, right?
27:57
We can make those decisions for ourself, but as you know, as
28:01
organizations that are supporting our workforce and our
28:04
clients through, you know, and, and a vulnerable, vulnerable
28:09
clients who have this supportive workforce that are at risk of
28:13
certainly at risk of burnout, you know, we're caring.
28:16
We're a caring sector, you know, and so, so yeah, it's a lot to
28:21
take on. I feel like for a lot of people
28:23
when they hear risk management, their eyes just go open because
28:27
you're like, and then you start looking around like, and this
28:29
could be a risk and that could be a risk.
28:31
And then like it just the overwhelm, like it can be quite
28:34
overwhelming because you don't realize how many risks there are
28:37
until you have to write it down. Absolutely, but without
28:40
highlighting them. And I think, you know, it's, it
28:43
can feel like an exercise in doomsday sometimes, which can
28:47
feel really, you know, what's the worst that could happen?
28:50
Let's write it down and map it out.
28:52
But in all honesty, it actually creates really interesting
28:55
conversations. It actually gives you the
28:58
ability to create really supportive structures for your
29:02
organization, linking it back to policies and procedures, linking
29:05
it back to, you know, your systems and your registers and
29:08
your frameworks that support your organization.
29:11
But it's the the difference between having a safety harness
29:15
on or having an ambulance on site.
29:18
I'd much prefer to have a harness on and, and you know,
29:22
just to not fall to my, you know, plummets down to the
29:26
ground then to be, you know, to be trying to fix things
29:29
retrospectively. So wherever you can create this
29:32
proactive harness that is there to provide you with some support
29:37
so that you don't in the hope that you don't fall means that,
29:41
you know, you could have the best paramedics on call if I
29:44
offered you that as a solution. Look, you can have this harness
29:46
or I'll call an ambulance for you.
29:48
Get up to that, you know the top floor and start working.
29:52
Most people in the right minds, I would think would opt to have
29:56
a harness if they're going to be working at heights.
29:59
It's that same. It's creating a harness for you
30:01
and your organization. It's also giving you informed
30:04
decision making because you know the process and it maps it out
30:07
very quick, very easily and very quickly.
30:09
What what Rd. you need to go down next?
30:12
Yep. Yeah.
30:13
And your appetite for that risk, you know, like I said before
30:16
with the tea and coffee, you know, my my partner used to jump
30:20
out of airplanes. Hi.
30:24
And but that he had an appetite. He was, that was a risk he was
30:28
willing to take. It's not a risk I'm willing to
30:30
take and every organization should be aware of their own
30:35
risk appetite as well, because that drives the strategies you
30:39
put in place. If your risk appetite is really
30:41
quite high, maybe you will just have a paramedic on site.
30:44
That's your organization's risk appetite, you know, or risk
30:48
appetite might be so low that you might not even let people
30:52
work at heights. That's really, there's a massive
30:54
scale of then all of these things come into play.
30:57
The different risks, your appetite for them, the
30:59
strategies that you have available to you as a as an
31:02
organization and how they all work together to create this
31:05
really cool supportive framework.
31:07
Yeah, but it is make people glaze over.
31:10
Well, you were talking about risk appetite to own a business.
31:13
It is a risk and you've got to have an appetite to do it.
31:16
Could you give anyone any like advice that you would have if
31:22
they were to step out and do their own consultancy?
31:26
Look, yes, can I do it? Yeah, invest in coffee, invest
31:32
in caffeine, caffeinated drinks. No, look, I think really it just
31:36
comes down to going for it. I think if it's something, yeah,
31:41
if it's something that you can't stop thinking about, don't stop
31:43
going for it. Just really you only get one
31:46
life, so get out there and do it.
31:49
But you know, do some risk analysis, you know where where
31:53
your risk appetite is. You know, maybe you financially
31:57
have, you know, you have different financial risk
31:59
appetite to the person sitting next to you, but what is your
32:01
financial risk appetite look like?
32:03
I can throw everything into it for the next 6 months, three
32:06
months, 12 months. What does that look like?
32:08
What am I, you know, my hard nose, what are my backstops?
32:12
How can I support myself from, you know, getting into a
32:15
financial turmoil, All of those sorts of things.
32:18
It's really, you know, you risk your risk analysis is really
32:24
just a pros and cons list on steroids.
32:26
It really just is looking at your cons list and going what
32:29
if, what if, what if, what if, what if?
32:32
And then figuring out whether or not or which ones of those what
32:35
ifs and non negotiables. That's not OK.
32:38
That happened now. So what can I do to make sure it
32:40
doesn't at all because I've got 0 appetite or I could probably
32:44
do a little bit what's my appetite and how do I keep
32:48
myself in? What strategies can I put in
32:50
place to make sure that I don't fall out of that level of risk
32:55
in that area? And then and go for it.
32:57
Would you risk it all again? Absolutely, absolutely.
33:01
And look, I'm really lucky to have some really great support
33:04
behind me, which has been really what's made me able to to go for
33:10
it and grow really quite pleased.
33:12
I'm sorry, that's all right. So at the moment with your, as
33:16
you're building your business, are you scaling, are you
33:20
refining? Are you just happy go lucky?
33:23
Happy go lucky sounds great. It does, isn't it?
33:27
It does look, I, I tend to go through these cycles of growth
33:32
and refine and growth and refine.
33:33
And now I would say I'm probably in a bit of a refining moment,
33:37
but I am excitedly implementing a new system because I love
33:41
that, because it helps me nerd out.
33:43
But it's, look, it's, it's really helped streamline.
33:46
I went through some process mapping of my own and I found a
33:49
system that can really help me streamline it.
33:51
I know I practice what I preach. Yeah.
33:55
So I'm in the process of that at the moment while still working
33:58
with clients are still, still doing work, still working with,
34:03
with providers. But yeah, at the moment that's,
34:05
that's my focus. And then once that is all
34:08
finalized and in place, then it will be another, another
34:11
launchpad for my next growth phase.
34:14
I know which. Sounds exciting because you've
34:17
got you've got a bit going on like because you do like educate
34:21
the community that you've have and you built around you.
34:23
You got consulting. I have seen you on other
34:25
podcasts speaking. Is there anything else?
34:29
Yeah, look, I'd love to do more events this this year.
34:33
So loving podcasting. I write spilling the quality
34:35
newsletter on which send out every week, which is all story
34:39
based, often mildly embarrassing stories about my life that
34:43
somehow then link back to some sort of insight or or ideas to
34:48
support quality management in organizations.
34:50
So I really, I really enjoy doing that.
34:53
And yeah, I've got some talks at some networking events coming up
34:55
as well in WA, which has been exciting.
34:58
But yeah, look, I'm, I'm just looking forward to, to
35:01
connecting with more providers and, and to support as many
35:05
people as I can. So what does your next 12 months
35:08
look like? Is it more just going to
35:10
networking and more providers? Yeah, I look, I think a
35:13
combination of all of those things is what I've got on the
35:18
cards. But yeah, look, as I said, at
35:21
the moment my business as usual is as much networking as I can.
35:26
So I do a lot of online networking for because I'm based
35:29
in WA, but I support people across Australia.
35:32
So I do a lot of online networking to reach people on
35:36
the eastern coast of this country.
35:40
And I try to get to as many in person ones in in Perth as well
35:44
to try and support people. But any more opportunities for
35:47
for online networking for events and things like that?
35:50
I'm open for 100%. Yeah.
35:54
So if I brought you back onto this podcast, say 2 years from
35:57
now, what would you love to say that you've achieved?
36:00
Oh goodness, mate, I really just comes down to supporting the
36:05
people who who need it. So I'd really, you know, for me
36:09
it is, I say quality, not quantity, but it is I'm really
36:16
the I'd really like to be able to support as many providers as
36:19
possible. So I'd love to launch a talking
36:23
about policies and procedures before I'd love to launch a
36:27
policy lab. So an intensive for
36:30
organizations to be able to join, to be able to support
36:33
them, to get the confidence and the skills and everything to
36:37
review and refine their own policies and procedures that
36:39
they've already got, but that maybe not fit for purpose.
36:42
So I'd love to do some some more group things like that that mean
36:46
that where I can reach more people have.
36:48
You got any words for anyone that is just using AI with what
36:52
things to look out for? Because it isn't.
36:54
It's not the VR and end of it doesn't fix it all your problems
36:58
as a business. Yep, absolutely.
37:00
Look, I think AIA 100% has its place and but I think it still
37:07
comes down to at the moment you get out in a lot of cases what
37:10
you put in. So you need to have an initial
37:14
understanding of what it is that you're doing to be able to be
37:19
able to really create these things that are supportive of
37:23
your organization. So in some cases, putting into
37:26
AI, write me a consent policy and using what it spits out is
37:31
really similar to purchasing one off the shelf.
37:35
Unless you know what you need for it to do or what it is that
37:38
you're wanting for it to achieve for your organization
37:41
specifically, or what standards you're wanting it to align with
37:44
and how, yeah, you'll get out what you put in essentially.
37:48
And you know, I liken it to, you know, if you think about going
37:51
to have surgery done, would you want to go to a doctor that
37:54
actually just plugged into AI? How do I cut out someone's
37:58
tonsils and followed what? So, you know, look, I think
38:02
there's an element of maintaining your own knowledge,
38:06
your own confidence that you've built for yourself.
38:09
So it's not relying on AI to give you a finished product.
38:15
It's about utilizing AI to write what you need and know you need
38:19
faster for you. So I think there's got.
38:22
To be the element. The AI doesn't have a
38:24
personality, it's not human, and it still needs a human to read
38:28
over it and to ensure that what is said is 100% correct.
38:32
This idea that we can sit and forget and leave the whole
38:35
project to them is, I think is wrong.
38:39
Yeah, I'll say it. I do feel like you still need a
38:41
human element to oversee it. I think it's it's takes away our
38:44
critical thinking and our creativity or is it risk of
38:47
taking away our critical thinking and creativity where if
38:51
we're utilizing it to think for us or to create for us, we're
38:55
actually losing those skills for ourselves because we don't use
38:59
them anymore. I guess it's similar to, you
39:01
know, to, to Googling the answer to everything.
39:04
I don't remember. I've never remembered actors
39:06
names. I'm the person that goes, you
39:08
know, the guy with the face was in the thing.
39:11
Yeah. I never forget actors names, but
39:14
I now can Google the show that I'm watching and see the cast
39:18
list and then find the face and find who they are and find who I
39:22
what I saw them in in the past that I recognize them from.
39:25
So, you know, I've lost. I never really had it.
39:29
Let's be honest. I never really had the skill to
39:30
begin with. Yeah, but you know, like I no
39:34
longer have to sit with that uncomfortable thing of trying to
39:36
remember and waking up at 3:00 in the morning going.
39:39
I've remembered. But I worry, you know, I worry
39:42
that we, we lose our critical thinking, our own, our innate
39:48
intelligence because we're outsourcing it to an artificial
39:51
intelligence. Well, I just feel like it's you
39:54
can only personality can only do so much.
39:56
Like I'm, I'm dyslexic as hell so I need chat GPD to run my
40:01
life so people aren't reading an e-mail and wondering what the
40:05
hell happened because the structure is completely off.
40:08
And if I use some interesting words at times so it's you know,
40:13
So what I think 1 And like for the love of God, I'm never going
40:16
to know which there to use in a sentence.
40:18
It's never going to happen. But I I use it for that stuff,
40:22
but it can't. It's not created like a human
40:24
being and it needs to be prompted.
40:27
Yeah, really. Well, it needs to be prompted
40:29
really well to replace that. And personally, I don't want my
40:33
person. I don't want it to get to the
40:34
point where it's replacing my personality.
40:36
It hasn't replaced. It does refer to me ChatGPT as
40:40
brat, but I do find that a little bit funny.
40:43
That's kind of brilliant. Yep.
40:45
That is kind of brilliant. We'll roll with them, but other
40:48
than that, anybody that's listening, how do they get in
40:50
contact with you directly? Is it a website?
40:53
Is it LinkedIn? Absolutely, so you can visit the
40:55
website qualityhq.com dot AU or please feel free to find me and
41:01
reach out on LinkedIn. That's where I play after my
41:03
social media audit. It's pretty much the only place
41:06
that I play. So find me there and subscribe
41:09
to spilling the quality. If you're curious about it, jump
41:12
on. I send one out every Monday.
41:14
You can subscribe through the website or through my LinkedIn
41:16
as well. There's a link on there to
41:18
subscribe. They're probably the best ways.
41:20
But yeah, reach out. I'm more than happy to connect
41:23
and chat. Thank you so much for tonight
41:25
during the You're so welcome. Until next time you're.
41:28
Welcome. Thanks for having me, Sarah.