Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom found alone and dead in upscale home, family begs for answers

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Mom found alone and dead in upscale home, family begs for answers · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Get started Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph.
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Speaker 1: Right now, police on a man hunt for a suspect
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Speaker 1: who fatally stabs a loving mom dead in the neck.
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Speaker 1: We want justice. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I'm talking about a
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Speaker 1: lovely mom, her family pleading, pleading with the public to
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Speaker 1: help catch the killer. And this is amazing to me
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Speaker 1: because we've actually got who I believe to be the
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Speaker 1: killer on video tape. Now you think, well, there you
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Speaker 1: go go ahead and book him. Uh, it ain't that easy.
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Speaker 1: The video tape. And this happened to me once in
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Speaker 1: a bank robbery case, which I may tell later. I
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Speaker 1: will say the bank robber was dyslexic. His bank notes
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Speaker 1: said don't touch the al ram. This is a roby.
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Speaker 1: Once I got the jury pass that, I started making
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Speaker 1: a little headway it. I know what it feels like
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Speaker 1: as to many people joining me this morning to have
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Speaker 1: video tape or photographs and their blurry you can't make
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Speaker 1: it out. It is the devil is in the details.
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Speaker 1: We've got this guy seemingly coming out of nowhere from
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Speaker 1: a hedge or some bushes at a very unusual hour,
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Speaker 1: going toward her home. But I can't make him out
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Speaker 1: that well, you know what, Let's go to John Linley
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter John take it from the top.
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Speaker 1: Kay Thompson alone in her upscale Sandy Springs home. According
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Speaker 1: to police, she we know, had a blunt force trauma
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Speaker 1: and stabbed in the neck. But let's start at the
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Speaker 1: get go tell me what happened that night from all
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Speaker 1: accounts Nancy, Kay Thomason was the perfect other grandmother. Even
3:01
Speaker 1: neighbors say that she was one of those people that
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Speaker 1: you could always count on. Now, she wasn't what you'd
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Speaker 1: call the social butterfly. She kept to herself, but if
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Speaker 1: someone needed something, there was no one more dependable than
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Speaker 1: Kay Thomas. Now, hold on, hold on, wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: John Limley, I don't know what you may buy a
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Speaker 1: social butterfly, you know, uh, you know what. Let's go
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Speaker 1: to the other ladies joining me this morning. Francy Haggs,
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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor in Francy, you have got such a
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Speaker 1: mouthful of a title, no offense, but let me think
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Speaker 1: how it went. You were the first federal okay, you
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Speaker 1: know what you tell me in charge of child abductions
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Speaker 1: and extradition. This position was actually formed for her by
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Speaker 1: the federal government. What's what? Give me your whole title? Francy? Well, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: don't blame me for it. It's Congress they invented it.
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Speaker 1: It was called the National Coordinator for Child Exploitation Prevention
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Speaker 1: and Interdiction. You see that, not me? Okay, I did
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Speaker 1: not say that. Also with me, in addition to Francy
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Speaker 1: Haigs is Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist Dr Bober. I
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Speaker 1: don't know how you managed to work a sentiments to
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Speaker 1: all the uh insane criminal lunatics you're dealing with every day,
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Speaker 1: but thank you. Okay. I don't know Alan if you
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Speaker 1: and Jack and I fit into that category. Kenya Jackson
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Speaker 1: with me, veteran Atlanta prosecutor and of course Crime online
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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter John Lemley. You know, John, I
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Speaker 1: take um, I take issue with what you just said.
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Speaker 1: Oh good, she's not a is she not a social butterfly?
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Speaker 1: You know what? Let me just go out to Francy
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Speaker 1: and Kenya. By the time I get up at four
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Speaker 1: thirty to five o'clock every morning, and I uh make
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Speaker 1: the children's breakfast, and I make dinner and set the
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Speaker 1: table and work on serious and work on crime stories
4:58
Speaker 1: and work on a book and work on Hallmark. Then
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Speaker 1: wake up the children and get them to school and
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Speaker 1: then come back home and this and that and that
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Speaker 1: and this and this and that, and suddenly it's time
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Speaker 1: to get them and I have a whole night of work.
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Speaker 1: You know what. I don't know what you mean by
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Speaker 1: social butterfly. You know, I don't know if you know
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Speaker 1: this John Limley or not. But most women are expected
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Speaker 1: to fully take care of the home. I guess that
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Speaker 1: includes with the yard, the children. That includes dressing them,
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Speaker 1: feeding them, keeping them clean and all their crevices, keeping
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Speaker 1: them healthy, feeding them, getting them to school, making sure
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Speaker 1: they have everything that they're supposed to have, um making
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Speaker 1: money and bringing it home and supporting the family. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So Francie Haggs, I don't know what he means by
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Speaker 1: she's not a social butterfly. The woman has uh works
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Speaker 1: rental properties, she has children, threats you, oldrin. She takes
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Speaker 1: care of this home in addition to working rental properties.
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Speaker 1: I mean, what does John Linley want her to do.
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Speaker 1: That's a great point, Nancy. It brings up mean in
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Speaker 1: mind of the old commercial. Remember she can bring home
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Speaker 1: the bacon and fry it up in a pan. This
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Speaker 1: one was obviously doing all that. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I don't even know what you're saying, John Lely. You
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Speaker 1: just better back off on this side, okay, and quit
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Speaker 1: the giggling. It's not attractive now, John Linley. Now that
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Speaker 1: we have appropriately you know, flawed you, now can we
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Speaker 1: get back to what happened to this lady? Certainly now
6:36
Speaker 1: we were talking about how I noticed Alan do you
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Speaker 1: got really really quiet tiptoed away. That's because his wife
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Speaker 1: is nearby and she is not putting up with any
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Speaker 1: of this. Okay, back to this lady, because I mean,
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Speaker 1: it's killing me about this woman. And how can they
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Speaker 1: not have any clues when they've got the guy of
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Speaker 1: a videotape. Okay again, start at the big inning. Certainly now,
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Speaker 1: as we were talking about, this woman was, if anything, dependable,
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Speaker 1: and that dependability was something that actually carried over to
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Speaker 1: her schedule as well. If there was something on her
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Speaker 1: calendar on a sad day, a given day, you better
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Speaker 1: believe she was going to keep that appointment. And that
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Speaker 1: is what first raised an alarm to family members when
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Speaker 1: they found out that she was a no show, that
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Speaker 1: she had not made an appointment earlier that day. Different
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Speaker 1: family members then tried calling Kay. There was no answer. Uh.
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Speaker 1: This went on for a couple of hours. So around
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Speaker 1: seven o'clock that night, Kay's granddaughter grabbed a couple of
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Speaker 1: friends and went over to the woman's house there in
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Speaker 1: Sandy Springs, just north of Atlanta to find out what
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Speaker 1: was going on. Oh my stars, Oh my star, I'm
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Speaker 1: just thinking Dr Daniel Bober, psychiatrists joining us. I've been
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Speaker 1: ribbing John Linley the last couple of minutes, but just
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Speaker 1: imagine what this does. I'm thinking of John, David and Lucy,
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Speaker 1: my children if they were to find their grandparents dead.
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Speaker 1: That's kind of thing you never get over. Dr Daniel Bober. Oh,
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Speaker 1: it's beyond terrific. Nancy. Uh. I thought i was going
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Speaker 1: to be your latest victim. But I'm glad you just
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Speaker 1: asked me a question. So I feel I feel better
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Speaker 1: and I'm not shaking anymore. But yes, for sure that
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Speaker 1: that would be a horribly traumatic event, and it's something
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Speaker 1: that staves in the child's mind probably for the rest
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Speaker 1: of their life, and keeps, you know, rearing in suddenly head.
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Speaker 1: You know, you think in your own home that you're safe,
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Speaker 1: But not true with me. Francy Haigs, Dr Daniel Bober,
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Speaker 1: Kenyan Johnson, and John Linley. Let's take a listen, allen
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Speaker 1: to the nine one one call and see what we
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Speaker 1: can learn. I'm not so your emerchant. Yeah, I'm not
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Speaker 1: kind of and we just came. Oh, I tell her
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Speaker 1: mother and okay, that's all right. Well, Peter, Peter address
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Speaker 1: for me here. Um, well, okay, and what's the telephone?
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Speaker 1: I'm we're coming from my number is okay? How along
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Speaker 1: the LOI fonder? Oh? We were we just found it.
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Speaker 1: We just we just we just we'll just start in
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Speaker 1: the door. I don't know how how long you've been? Okay?
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Speaker 1: Are you with the patient now? Yeah? Okay, I'm on
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Speaker 1: the stair on on the stairway. But my friend for
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Speaker 1: her daughter helped her. How alticipation? How how old this is? Katie? Katie?
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Speaker 1: How old this seventy two? Sorry? Oh I'll cay on
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Speaker 1: on one tepo we have I'm saday she late, No,
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Speaker 1: she not to wake you, very very she's beyond help.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how. And she behind that beyond she's
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Speaker 1: work yea very head. Do you think when murdered her?
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Speaker 1: You know? To Kenya Johnson, veteran felony prosecutor, I always
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Speaker 1: love playing a nine one call in front of a
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Speaker 1: jury because it takes you back to that particular moment.
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Speaker 1: There's no interpretation, You're hearing it raw as it happens,
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Speaker 1: and you can learn a lot there you hear the
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Speaker 1: nine one one call. But aside from learning about who
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Speaker 1: found Kay Thompson dead and their reaction. I didn't learn
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Speaker 1: a lot about what happened to her, but it's still
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Speaker 1: a value. Kenya absolutely if that isn't devastating, nine one
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Speaker 1: one calls, you can feel the pain and the panic
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Speaker 1: and the caller's voice. And what I wanted to make
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Speaker 1: a point about how reliable and how consistent the victim
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Speaker 1: was in her life. That helps investigators being able to
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Speaker 1: track back the events that occurred because they know where
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Speaker 1: she should have been or where she was planning to go.
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Speaker 1: And so that really assists with the comeline. We have
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Speaker 1: a victim that is so reliable and consistent and so
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Speaker 1: scheduled U it helps the investigation and Nancy, I also
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Speaker 1: want to mention your on Marbary case. This is an
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Speaker 1: al ram that is fodder for legend and it's actually
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Speaker 1: a big poster on the wall in the Pulton County
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Speaker 1: District Attorney's office. So that's so just one of your
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Speaker 1: claims to Fane whoa, whoa Are you serious? Are you serious?
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Speaker 1: That office? You know? I I haven't framed uh in
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Speaker 1: my office at crime Online. That that that's hilarious. That
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Speaker 1: and there's so much more to the story which you know,
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Speaker 1: when you have an hour and a cup of tea,
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Speaker 1: ken you, I'll be happy to tell you. You know.
12:48
Speaker 1: I mean, I just anyway, off our ram and roby
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Speaker 1: and back to this when Keny you're right and I
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Speaker 1: want to talk about you know, I'm back to you. Limley,
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Speaker 1: you know social butter fly. You would never have said
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Speaker 1: that about a man. Oh, he's not much of a
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Speaker 1: social butterfly. And I'm just sitting here stewing but well
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Speaker 1: listening to that nine one. No, you would not. I've
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Speaker 1: never heard you say it before. And not only that,
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Speaker 1: let me correct you. She works charity at St. Jude's
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Speaker 1: Children's a research hospital, the Ronald McDonald House Charity and
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Speaker 1: many other charities. So I don't know what you want
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Speaker 1: her to do? What galivant around at night to hot
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Speaker 1: spots and discos and bars. And I don't even want
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Speaker 1: to talk about it. I want to talk about what
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Speaker 1: happened to this woman? What do we know about the injuries,
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Speaker 1: and what, if anything, does that tell us? First part,
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Speaker 1: what are her injuries? John Limley, Her granddaughter and her
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Speaker 1: two friends find Kay with a stab wound to the
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Speaker 1: back of the neck, a stab wound to the back
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Speaker 1: of the neck, and not only that, she had blunt
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Speaker 1: force trauma to the head. Francy Haggs, what does that
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Speaker 1: tell you, well, Nancy, what it tells me is it
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Speaker 1: it's almost a personal crime. It's certainly a very violent crime.
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Speaker 1: It's also kind of unusual. I'm not sure I've ever
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Speaker 1: seen a case where the cause of death is a
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Speaker 1: stab wound to the back of the neck. It doesn't
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Speaker 1: seem to me that she would have been all that
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Speaker 1: hard to subdue, so I find it very violent out
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Speaker 1: you know. Another thing, it makes me wonder, Francy, about
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Speaker 1: where she was and what we know about the attack. Pristance,
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Speaker 1: Was she in bed? If she was in bed, we
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Speaker 1: don't have any evidence of a sex attack, no evidence
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Speaker 1: that anything stolen from the home, such as credit cards
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Speaker 1: or a t M S were ever used. So what's
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Speaker 1: the point do we know, John Linley? Whether there was
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Speaker 1: damage in the home, was it ransacked? What do we know?
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Speaker 1: What we do know is that when Kay's granddaughter and
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Speaker 1: her friends arrived at the home there on Woodbine Road,
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Speaker 1: the first thing they noticed was that Kay's car, a
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Speaker 1: black Sorrento, was not in the driveway, so they had
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Speaker 1: no reason to believe when they entered the home that
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Speaker 1: Kay was even there. Uh, that's when they began searching
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Speaker 1: the home, and it was not long before they came
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Speaker 1: upon that horrific scene. So what is that that's an suv? Correct? Correct?
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Speaker 1: We also know that that that suv was found almost
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Speaker 1: immediately after. So let's think this thing through. Dr Daniel Bober,
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Speaker 1: you're the forensics psychiatrist. Somebody breaks into this woman's home.
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Speaker 1: There's no sex attack, there's no theft of any merit.
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Speaker 1: The suv was taken and then left immediately after. So
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Speaker 1: what's the point, Dr Daniel Bober. I actually agree with
15:48
Speaker 1: your previous guest, Nancy. I mean, if you're a contract killer,
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Speaker 1: you killed someone with the right below hundred yards away.
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Speaker 1: This is the kind of attack that's up close and personal,
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Speaker 1: and so it sounds like the attack or had a
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Speaker 1: personal with the victim. To me, it see if it
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Speaker 1: feels very personal, it feels very close. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to her daughters. We know that there's a community that
16:07
Speaker 1: takes care of their neighbors, who were asking you now
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Speaker 1: to help take care of one of the one that
16:13
Speaker 1: mattered greatly do us? Oh good? She would have done
16:19
Speaker 1: anything for anybody, and so please, if you know anything,
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Speaker 1: come forward, anything that you might know. You are hearing
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Speaker 1: the daughter of Kay Thomason tearfully breaking down, begging for
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Speaker 1: help to find the killer of her own mother. There
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Speaker 1: is now a one hundred thousand dollar reward. Repeat one
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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar reward tip line seven seven oh five
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Speaker 1: five one six nine three seven. This woman a beautiful woman,
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Speaker 1: a mother, in her home, minding her own business. She
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Speaker 1: lives alone. How many of us? I lived alone for years,
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Speaker 1: well ever since my fiancee was murdered, until really the
17:05
Speaker 1: time I married, had a couple of roommates, but essentially
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Speaker 1: lived alone. This woman living alone, She in a home,
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Speaker 1: Her children live away from her in different cities. Divorced
17:20
Speaker 1: husband is a lawyer and a very uh well known
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Speaker 1: lawyer in another town. So how can you be you're
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Speaker 1: not safe in your own home minding your own business.
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Speaker 1: This is a very upscale area. Did she have a
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Speaker 1: burglar alarm? I can't believe that she would go to
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Speaker 1: bed without locking the doors and turning on her alarm.
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Speaker 1: Plus there's video of this guy. Take a listen to
17:49
Speaker 1: what cops say about the reward. Hundred thousand dollars that's
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Speaker 1: being put forth. I think in the case to the
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Speaker 1: public how serious we are about solving this case. We
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Speaker 1: hope that someone will look at the subject in that video,
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Speaker 1: see how perhaps that person walks, See what that person
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Speaker 1: was maybe wearing the night of the homicide. I am
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Speaker 1: looking at the video right now. It's clearly her surveillance
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Speaker 1: video in her home. I'm guaranteeing as she had a
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Speaker 1: burglar alarm if she's got cameras. This guy comes out
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Speaker 1: of nowhere. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Alan, do
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Speaker 1: have you viewed this video? He It's not like he's
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Speaker 1: wandering down the street. Oh no. He comes out apparently
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Speaker 1: right at her home, where it looks like he's been
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Speaker 1: hiding behind trees and undergrowth. He just comes out right
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Speaker 1: at the entrance to her home. It looks like looks around.
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Speaker 1: It's not like, Wow, where am I going to go?
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Speaker 1: What am I gonna do? He turns and had rate
19:00
Speaker 1: to her door. I mean, Alan, this looks so planned
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Speaker 1: to me. Well, he could have been watching this house
19:07
Speaker 1: for a while. He looks kind of like a vagrant
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Speaker 1: to me, the kind of person we have a lot
19:12
Speaker 1: of in in Los Angeles. But in the grainy photo
19:15
Speaker 1: at night, you can't really tell. He doesn't look like
19:17
Speaker 1: a vagrant to me. I don't know how he can
19:19
Speaker 1: even possibly say he looks like a vagrant. Why does
19:22
Speaker 1: he vagrant? Are his pants torn? I don't see his
19:26
Speaker 1: pants torn. They look baggy? Okay, well it's baggy alright.
19:29
Speaker 1: A vagrant that knows how to beat an alarm system
19:32
Speaker 1: and get in murder this woman, stabbing her, bludgeoning her,
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Speaker 1: getting away in her suv, stealing nothing else, not leaving
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Speaker 1: fingerprints or anything behind. Wow, that's some vagrant. It doesn't
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Speaker 1: fit the profile of a vagrant as Alan could have
19:52
Speaker 1: me believe. Francy Hakes, I agree with you, Nancy. This
19:55
Speaker 1: seems very personal and very personable. That is personal to
20:01
Speaker 1: the victim. It looks like he was stalking her. It
20:04
Speaker 1: looked like when he got into her house he murdered
20:06
Speaker 1: her in a very personal, very violent way. Interesting if
20:09
Speaker 1: this were a personal and violent attack, that there is
20:12
Speaker 1: no sex attack. What about it? Dr Daniel Boberg, How
20:15
Speaker 1: does that fit into this scenario? No credit cards have
20:19
Speaker 1: been used, no a t M has been used. It
20:22
Speaker 1: was almost as if the suv there was an afterthought.
20:26
Speaker 1: It was taken and dumped immediately. I agree with you, Nancy.
20:29
Speaker 1: Maybe the motive was revenge. It just seems like pure rage.
20:33
Speaker 1: The way she was murdered, um just feels very cold,
20:37
Speaker 1: very personal, and very calculated. We know that the vehicle
20:41
Speaker 1: was discarded, was abandoned in an apartment complex in Shamblely.
20:47
Speaker 1: I would say that's about ten miles from the murder,
20:50
Speaker 1: saying Kenya Johnson, what can you glean from the fact
20:54
Speaker 1: it was abandoned in an apartment complex. Well, usually people jump,
20:59
Speaker 1: I him that they've stolen near their last location, So
21:04
Speaker 1: I would imagine that this is an area that the
21:07
Speaker 1: suspect frequented, he was familiar with, and not far away
21:12
Speaker 1: from where he ultimately ended up the night. And I
21:14
Speaker 1: agreed that this clime doesn't seem like from a vagrant,
21:18
Speaker 1: because those are more random crimes, crimes of opportunity. But
21:22
Speaker 1: they this particular suspect knew that the victim would be alone,
21:26
Speaker 1: knew that the victim was of means and uh and
21:30
Speaker 1: this sort of seems like a very calculated type of crime,
21:34
Speaker 1: although vicious, but very calculated and not random at all.
21:38
Speaker 1: But I said, I would say based on the location
21:41
Speaker 1: where the car was dropped. If you hang out in
21:43
Speaker 1: that area, I think pretty soon you'll either show up
21:46
Speaker 1: again in that area or there's some connection to where
21:49
Speaker 1: he lives or frequent Kenyan Johnson exactly. And I always
21:54
Speaker 1: use Scott Peterson as an example, but there's many, many,
21:57
Speaker 1: many examples. You know what, he's the big fisherman. What
22:02
Speaker 1: did he do kill Lacy and dumper body where he
22:05
Speaker 1: went fishing? That does not call for a braining act. Okay.
22:10
Speaker 1: People go where they're comfortable, all right, A place you've
22:14
Speaker 1: been before, your grandmother's property, you're you're where you grew
22:19
Speaker 1: up as a kid. Look at Todd Mom, Casey Anthony
22:22
Speaker 1: dumping little Kelly's body behind the school she used to
22:25
Speaker 1: attend to, where she go out and sneak and smoke
22:27
Speaker 1: in the back of the school. That area, I mean,
22:30
Speaker 1: it's a place that you're familiar with. So that's where
22:33
Speaker 1: he goes to dump the suv K Thomason's black suv.
22:39
Speaker 1: Now is there surveillance video there? That's my next question?
22:44
Speaker 1: If so, where is it? Why haven't I seen it?
22:46
Speaker 1: If not, why haven't they gotten it? You know, in
22:50
Speaker 1: an apartment complex, there's gonna be surveillance video. That's one thought.
22:54
Speaker 1: Next thought to Francy Hicks. If this woman has video
23:00
Speaker 1: cameras on her property, you know she had a burglar alarm.
23:03
Speaker 1: Second thought. Third thought, Francy, the vehicle was parked in
23:08
Speaker 1: the house. A burglar they're gonna rob. No, they're not
23:11
Speaker 1: gonna go in when you see the person parked in
23:15
Speaker 1: the driveway. For Pete's sake, Not only that it was
23:18
Speaker 1: the early early morning hours, this means between midnight and
23:21
Speaker 1: six a m Um. What does that mean? Why is
23:26
Speaker 1: he out and about at this time of night? Let's
23:29
Speaker 1: address those three things, Francy. Well, first the time frame, Nancy,
23:33
Speaker 1: You're so right. Only bad things happened between midnight and
23:37
Speaker 1: six a m. There's no doubt about it. Also, I
23:41
Speaker 1: don't think I've seen anywhere her surveillance video picking him
23:45
Speaker 1: up leaving the house. Is he sophisticated enough to have
23:48
Speaker 1: disabled the cameras? That's what I would like to know.
23:52
Speaker 1: And you're right about the apartment complex and the area
23:55
Speaker 1: where he dumped her suv. I doubt he lives there.
23:59
Speaker 1: He seems to me to be smarter than that. So
24:01
Speaker 1: did he do that in order to draw police's attention
24:05
Speaker 1: away from where he actually lives. That would be one
24:09
Speaker 1: of the questions. I had another thing, think about it.
24:12
Speaker 1: Think about it, John Linley, the route and and Alan,
24:16
Speaker 1: do you you're familiar with the area that he would
24:18
Speaker 1: have likely taken to get from the home the murder
24:22
Speaker 1: scene to Shambly. I mean, if that uh SUV has
24:28
Speaker 1: any type of tracking, navigational tracking in it, you can
24:32
Speaker 1: determine which route he took, and then you go along
24:35
Speaker 1: that route and you get surveillance video. Where's the surveillance
24:38
Speaker 1: video from the apartment? And again, did this woman have
24:42
Speaker 1: a burglar alarm system? It seems fantastical to me that
24:45
Speaker 1: she would not if she has cameras. What about it, Alan, Well,
24:49
Speaker 1: there are several routes. You know. I used to be
24:51
Speaker 1: a traffic reporter in Atlanta many years ago, and I
24:54
Speaker 1: can tell you there are a lot of roads that
24:55
Speaker 1: he could have taken by ways. But if he had
24:59
Speaker 1: taken the free the Interstate, ultimately there would be no
25:02
Speaker 1: cameras there. But plenty of businesses have cameras around Shamblen
25:06
Speaker 1: gotta get to the interstate, Alan, right, But around Shamble
25:10
Speaker 1: there are tons of security cameras because there's a lot
25:14
Speaker 1: of stuff that goes on in shambly, and you would
25:17
Speaker 1: think that they would see maybe even at the apartment complex,
25:20
Speaker 1: so I would think he knows somebody there, he used
25:23
Speaker 1: to live there, he lives nearby, or his worked there.
25:27
Speaker 1: Um have have you ever heard francy of people dumping cars,
25:33
Speaker 1: say in a mall parking lot, way out at the
25:36
Speaker 1: end of the airport parking lot, some vast parking lots,
25:40
Speaker 1: some area where they think it will get lost in
25:43
Speaker 1: the sauce and nobody will notice it, like an apartment complex. Absolutely, Nancy.
25:47
Speaker 1: It's really, if you think about it, a forensic countermeasure.
25:51
Speaker 1: He's taken that vehicle and dumped it somewhere, almost like
25:55
Speaker 1: to lead the police on a wild goose chase. This
25:58
Speaker 1: does not seem like a vagrant or random crime at all.
26:01
Speaker 1: To make another issue, she's stabbed in the neck. Man,
26:05
Speaker 1: that's cold stabbing somebody in the neck. But what about
26:09
Speaker 1: the murder weapon? Did he leave it there? Are there prints?
26:13
Speaker 1: Was the murder weapon from the home or did he
26:18
Speaker 1: bring the murder weapon in also, which would have shown
26:22
Speaker 1: some forethought? Also bludgeoned with what I mean, I'm not
26:26
Speaker 1: I'm not getting enough facts. John Limley Crime online dot
26:30
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. What more do we know of? Why
26:33
Speaker 1: are police planning it so close to the vest, and
26:36
Speaker 1: why are they searching her phone records? Did the purp
26:39
Speaker 1: call her? If so, how does he know her her
26:42
Speaker 1: cell number? And why would he be calling her? That
26:45
Speaker 1: does make it personal. Let's start with the murder weapon,
26:47
Speaker 1: John Limley. As with so many murder cases, please are
26:50
Speaker 1: sort of keeping a lot of these facts to themselves
26:53
Speaker 1: because as the interview um, potential witnesses or so specs,
27:00
Speaker 1: they don't want to already have planted any information in
27:05
Speaker 1: these people's heads. So I want to analyze what we know.
27:08
Speaker 1: But let's listen right now to more of that nine
27:12
Speaker 1: one one call. Do you think someone murder her? Okay?
27:17
Speaker 1: What can let make you think that? Because what do
27:23
Speaker 1: you think? What do you think the murder? Carry? Is
27:34
Speaker 1: just blood all over the places like sharp change? Is
27:36
Speaker 1: a broken mirror broken? Okay? Some were broken to this house?
27:39
Speaker 1: And okay, one stake and let me sat a police.
27:46
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the car has gone. Can you call me?
27:50
Speaker 1: Gone right coming Ford car? That is the nine one
27:57
Speaker 1: one call in this case where witness fines Kay Thompson's
28:02
Speaker 1: dead body stabbed and bludgeoned in her home, another issue
28:08
Speaker 1: we touched on before. To Dr Daniel bober I mentioned
28:13
Speaker 1: that her three children lived in different cities, not near
28:17
Speaker 1: her um. We also know that the husband they've been
28:22
Speaker 1: divorced and he is a lawyer in another city. She
28:27
Speaker 1: ran rental properties throughout the city of Atlanta, some in
28:34
Speaker 1: fancy areas, some in high crime areas. Dr Daniel bober
28:40
Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? If anything, it means
28:43
Speaker 1: that your suspect list is increased significantly, because you have
28:47
Speaker 1: to think about any of these people that she may
28:50
Speaker 1: have come into contact with and may have had some
28:53
Speaker 1: grape or some issue with her, and they are all
28:56
Speaker 1: potential suspects as of this hour, one thousand dollar reward,
29:01
Speaker 1: the highest reward ever in Sandy Springs history tipline seven
29:06
Speaker 1: seven zero five five one six nine three seven. Listen
29:13
Speaker 1: to her children as they beg for your help. She
29:17
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29:21
Speaker 1: you know anything, come forward, anything that you might know.
29:28
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30:52
Speaker 1: gorgeous young woman goes missing a landfill, searched connected to
30:57
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Jolene commins Uh, a gorgeous young mom
31:04
Speaker 1: who worked as a salon stylist. I'm Nancy Grace, this
31:09
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What
31:13
Speaker 1: do we know? Joining me right now, Ashley Willcott, judge lawyer,
31:18
Speaker 1: founder child Crime watch dot Com, New York psychologist, Karen Stark,
31:22
Speaker 1: forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksona State University and
31:27
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joseph Scott Morgan. But
31:32
Speaker 1: right now to crime online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Egan.
31:36
Speaker 1: Before I go into how jo Lene goes missing, to
31:41
Speaker 1: start with, what can you tell me about the search
31:44
Speaker 1: of a landfill. Well, they're searching the Chesshire Island landfill
31:50
Speaker 1: that's in folks And Georgia, and right now they're saying
31:53
Speaker 1: they have several pieces of items of interest. They're not
31:56
Speaker 1: telling what it is, but they're saying it could possibly
31:59
Speaker 1: lee to more information that will lead to finding Jolie.
32:02
Speaker 1: Let's talk about how she goes missing. Start at the beginning, Leagan,
32:08
Speaker 1: she was working at a tangles hair salon San Fernandina Beach, Florida.
32:14
Speaker 1: They leave for the night and nobody hears from her
32:17
Speaker 1: sense police searching the salon where the mother of three,
32:22
Speaker 1: just thirty four years old, was the last scene before
32:26
Speaker 1: she goes missing, her family posting desperate and emotional messages
32:31
Speaker 1: on Facebook begging for her return. Well, we hear her family,
32:38
Speaker 1: and we are trying our best to help solve the
32:40
Speaker 1: mystery of the disappearance of Jolene Cummings, a mother of three.
32:44
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to Jolene's mother.
32:48
Speaker 1: It motivates me that the community just loves my daughter
32:52
Speaker 1: and that they care about each other. We're a small
32:56
Speaker 1: knit community, but it's some acted by everybody. I mean,
33:06
Speaker 1: from one parent to another. Can you imagine the imaginable now,
33:14
Speaker 1: just the smallest closure would be having her home and
33:21
Speaker 1: is that's the hardest part, that's not having her home
33:27
Speaker 1: to Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, professor of forensics and author,
33:33
Speaker 1: they turned the salon upside down. I'm looking at a
33:37
Speaker 1: picture of her right now. She looks kind of like
33:39
Speaker 1: a cross of Carrie Underwood and Ariana Grande. That's what
33:43
Speaker 1: she looks like to me, This beautiful young woman, Jolene
33:47
Speaker 1: Commings working at a tangles air salon to support her
33:51
Speaker 1: three children, works that evening. It's a small area, Fernandina
33:57
Speaker 1: Beach near Jacksonville. Joe Scott, what can you tell me,
34:00
Speaker 1: Like she said, it's a close knit community. And uh,
34:04
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know how many eyes were on this area,
34:09
Speaker 1: how many eyes were on this area watching what was
34:11
Speaker 1: going on in this particular area. And I'm not just
34:13
Speaker 1: talking about people, but I'm talking about things like CCTV
34:18
Speaker 1: footage here, uh and and who would be motivated, uh,
34:22
Speaker 1: to to just kind of extricate this woman from this
34:25
Speaker 1: environment and which you you stay that she's trying to
34:28
Speaker 1: take care of her family, working in the salon, her
34:31
Speaker 1: family desperately asking for help. And we know in the
34:35
Speaker 1: last hours a search of a landfill has been going on.
34:40
Speaker 1: To Lee Egan, investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com
34:44
Speaker 1: about how far away is this landfill from where she
34:50
Speaker 1: went missing? Um, it's not that far away, Nancy. It's
34:53
Speaker 1: close to the Georgia Florida line. Yeah, this is This
34:56
Speaker 1: is just to the west of Brunswick, Nancy Charton County,
35:00
Speaker 1: about an hour away from the last place she was seen,
35:03
Speaker 1: an hour away across the state line. Now, I understand
35:10
Speaker 1: from what you're saying, Lee Egan, that items of interest
35:14
Speaker 1: have been found in the Jolian Cummings disappearance. Do we
35:18
Speaker 1: have any idea what the items might be. The sheriff
35:22
Speaker 1: did say that they had found items such as envelopes,
35:27
Speaker 1: mail and different things that that put them into an
35:31
Speaker 1: area because it's a huge landfill, so they had to
35:34
Speaker 1: kind of go piece by piece until they got to
35:36
Speaker 1: the area they needed to be in. And they did
35:39
Speaker 1: say they found some mail and envelopes around that area,
35:42
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't specify if that was what they were
35:45
Speaker 1: looking for. In regards to this case, something led them
35:49
Speaker 1: there In the search of a landfill is a very
35:52
Speaker 1: very difficult thing to do. You have to grid the
35:55
Speaker 1: landfill off on I wonder what led them and our
36:00
Speaker 1: way to this remote landfield. To Joseph Scott. More're gonna
36:05
Speaker 1: going to get back to the grist search, but I
36:08
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to what the sheriff
36:11
Speaker 1: had to say. Can you say if they're more consistent
36:14
Speaker 1: with maybe a murder weapon or something that would be
36:17
Speaker 1: Cussler's prince or any suspects prince, or they're more consistent
36:20
Speaker 1: with remains I'm not gonna get into why we found uh.
36:24
Speaker 1: They have to be tested to laugh first. We'll continue
36:27
Speaker 1: to follow any leads, credible leads that uh that we received.
36:31
Speaker 1: We have not received any credible in a while, so
36:36
Speaker 1: we'll continue with our criminal case. Criminal investigation there too,
36:39
Speaker 1: Uh put a rock side of case together to make
36:43
Speaker 1: sure that this will never happen again. After battling horrific
36:47
Speaker 1: temperatures a solid week and search for evidence in the
36:52
Speaker 1: disappearance of Joel and Cummins, investigators announced at this landfill
36:58
Speaker 1: they have found evidence of interest. They sifted through three thousand,
37:03
Speaker 1: three hundred tons of trash. And we hear this from
37:08
Speaker 1: Nassau County Sheriff Bill Leaper. Now what does that mean,
37:12
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, How did they come out of over
37:15
Speaker 1: three thousand tons of trash? How do you come up
37:19
Speaker 1: with envelopes connected to Joe Lene? It is a tedious process, Nancy.
37:25
Speaker 1: I've been involved in several of these landfill searches, uh,
37:29
Speaker 1: you know, over the course of my career. And just
37:32
Speaker 1: let me set the scene for you very carefully. Let
37:35
Speaker 1: you know what these guys are going through and gals
37:36
Speaker 1: are going through out there. They're wearing taive ex suits,
37:39
Speaker 1: which are those white crime scene suits you see us
37:41
Speaker 1: wearing with the hoods on and all that sort of thing.
37:45
Speaker 1: We're talking about South Georgia, immediately adjacent to northern Florida.
37:49
Speaker 1: It is blistering hot. Uh, your face is covered, You've
37:54
Speaker 1: got gloves on your hands. Uh. It's easy to be distracted.
37:58
Speaker 1: And if you can imagine the world's largest jigsaw puzzle,
38:03
Speaker 1: that is the most faulest, faulest environment that you can
38:07
Speaker 1: be in. It's just randomly thrown on the ground. You're
38:10
Speaker 1: having to look for for just clues in this environment.
38:14
Speaker 1: That's what these people are having to contend with, the
38:16
Speaker 1: fact that they were able to find anything. I am
38:19
Speaker 1: absolutely amazed. You've got this big equipment that's rolling over everything,
38:23
Speaker 1: that's pressing this stuff down. It's a horrible, horrible environment
38:27
Speaker 1: to to uh, to have to have to deal with.
38:30
Speaker 1: Oh and did I mention the rats they're everywhere. Now.
38:35
Speaker 1: Two hundred members of the FBI and the Sheriff's office
38:39
Speaker 1: rotated through this massive dunk landfill and that's from Jackson
38:44
Speaker 1: All FBI Special Agent charged Charles Spencer. They're wearing those
38:49
Speaker 1: protective suits that Joe Scott Morgan's telling you about temperatures
38:53
Speaker 1: that reach up to a heat index of a hundred
38:56
Speaker 1: and sixteen degrees. That's point five million pounds. My math
39:04
Speaker 1: whiz here Jackie Howard figured that out. Three thousand, three
39:07
Speaker 1: hundred tons six point five million pounds of trash to
39:13
Speaker 1: find evidence connecting back to the missing hair salon artist
39:19
Speaker 1: Jolene Commins, the mother of three. Now we have the
39:24
Speaker 1: issue of surveillance video to Ashley Wilcott, lawyer, judge, founder,
39:31
Speaker 1: child crime watch dot com way in Ashley, Well, let
39:34
Speaker 1: me just tell you, I'm so wicked impressed by law
39:36
Speaker 1: enforcement FBI because of the search of the dump, because
39:40
Speaker 1: that is such a monumental effort. Here's what they're doing.
39:44
Speaker 1: They are trying to find anything that might relate to
39:49
Speaker 1: the victim and figure or the victim herself, but also
39:52
Speaker 1: to figure out um who was involved or might have
39:57
Speaker 1: been involved in this um the Skillingness murder. And one
40:02
Speaker 1: of the things I want to point out that I
40:04
Speaker 1: really love is the items of interest that they found.
40:08
Speaker 1: They made a statement to say, listen, they may not
40:11
Speaker 1: be significant, they may be significant, but we are going
40:15
Speaker 1: to take those and we're gonna have the lab analysis
40:18
Speaker 1: done and we're going to determine how helpful or not
40:20
Speaker 1: it is. So it's a really a monumental effort, and
40:24
Speaker 1: someone knows what well. Think about it, Ashley Wilcott, think
40:28
Speaker 1: about it. Trash from Florida sent to a Georgia land film. Okay, Now,
40:37
Speaker 1: think about what someone even if it's just a bill
40:40
Speaker 1: from the victim's pocket book that was in her car, Okay,
40:43
Speaker 1: because her car was found had been moved. Think about
40:48
Speaker 1: someone even if the bill is of no importance, and
40:50
Speaker 1: maybe it's cable bill. I don't know, But what I'm
40:53
Speaker 1: saying is the significance to me of that bill may
40:57
Speaker 1: be that whoever did away with Jolene went to that
41:01
Speaker 1: effort to hide it. Then you can find out what
41:04
Speaker 1: else was there, who else had been in that area,
41:06
Speaker 1: who was familiar with that area. Why it's you know,
41:09
Speaker 1: because criminals always go back to something familiar, like Scott
41:12
Speaker 1: Peterson was a fisherman, soy dumps Leicy and Connor and
41:15
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay get it, Ashley, I mean, it
41:18
Speaker 1: could reveal a lot, even if the build means nothing,
41:21
Speaker 1: and there could be DNA on it. Who handled it?
41:23
Speaker 1: So they've sent it to the lab for all that analysis,
41:26
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say what I say, In every single case,
41:28
Speaker 1: somebody knows what happened. Maybe more than one person knows
41:32
Speaker 1: what happened, and so I believe that they're going to
41:34
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of it. Joey Cummins reported missing
41:37
Speaker 1: two days after she was last seen leaving her job
41:41
Speaker 1: at a Tangles hair salon. Fernandina Beach. What do we
41:46
Speaker 1: know about the last person to see her alive? Kimberly
41:51
Speaker 1: Kessler h a k A. Jennifer Cyberg. That's what the
41:54
Speaker 1: people at Tangles knew her as because she was using
41:57
Speaker 1: an alias. She's had a teen different identities over the
42:02
Speaker 1: path since. Now wait a minute, clears something up for me. La.
42:06
Speaker 1: When you say Kimberly Kessler has had all these various identities,
42:12
Speaker 1: you're Kimberly Kessler. Now that's her co worker who also
42:15
Speaker 1: works in the salon, right, That's correct. And police say
42:19
Speaker 1: that Kessler has also had numerous different job titles over
42:23
Speaker 1: the years. She was a truck driver at one time,
42:26
Speaker 1: worked in restaurants, um different hairstylids at different salons. The
42:30
Speaker 1: thing is, when she had these different jobs, she would
42:33
Speaker 1: change her name each and every time she never kept
42:35
Speaker 1: the same name. And that's the red flag that the
42:38
Speaker 1: police picked up on. She is said to be the
42:40
Speaker 1: last person to see Julie alive, the last person in
42:43
Speaker 1: her car. Well, how do you know that, Lee, That
42:46
Speaker 1: that the co worker, Kimberly Lee Kessler was the last
42:51
Speaker 1: person in her car, in the victim's car. Okay, the
42:54
Speaker 1: last time they saw Jolne's car, it was parked in
42:58
Speaker 1: a parking a home depot parking lot. Police pulled their
43:01
Speaker 1: surveillance camera. They see Kimberly Kimberly Kessler getting out of
43:06
Speaker 1: the driver's seat of the car. No one else was
43:09
Speaker 1: in the car with her. She parks the car, gets out,
43:12
Speaker 1: shuts the door, walks to a nearby gas station, and
43:15
Speaker 1: takes a taxicab away. Okay, Karen's dark. That doesn't look good.
43:21
Speaker 1: It doesn't look good, and it's it's a clear sign
43:24
Speaker 1: that it's intentional, that she understands what she's doing and
43:31
Speaker 1: that something is amiss in this situation. Nancy, what is
43:36
Speaker 1: she doing there? What is she doing with her car?
43:38
Speaker 1: When was the last time she was saying? She was
43:42
Speaker 1: last seen on May thirt she was supposed to pick
43:44
Speaker 1: up her children and she did not show up. Obviously,
43:48
Speaker 1: raise the red flag with all of her family because
43:50
Speaker 1: she is very much a hands on mother and she
43:53
Speaker 1: spends a lot of time with them. She separated from
43:57
Speaker 1: the children's father and she was supposed to meet it's
44:00
Speaker 1: him at a parking lot to pick them up, and
44:03
Speaker 1: she did not show up. These two women, were they
44:06
Speaker 1: on a friendly basis? What do we know about them?
44:09
Speaker 1: Were they working the same shift at when she goes missing?
44:14
Speaker 1: Was their animosity? Did they have an argument that day?
44:17
Speaker 1: And if so, over what what do we know? Lee?
44:20
Speaker 1: They were not on a friendly basis. They were very
44:24
Speaker 1: very a lot of animosity between them. For some reason.
44:28
Speaker 1: From what her coworkers said is Kessler had a problem
44:32
Speaker 1: with Joline, but they did not know why. She just
44:35
Speaker 1: refused to help her. She just snubbed her at every
44:38
Speaker 1: chance she got, and it was to the point where
44:41
Speaker 1: it was uncomfortable inside the salon. It made things very tense,
44:45
Speaker 1: But I mean it's tense enough to commit a murder. Karen. Start,
44:51
Speaker 1: When you work with somebody day in and day out,
44:55
Speaker 1: what type of animosities can grow, can build it? It's
45:00
Speaker 1: one of those things where you can build up a
45:03
Speaker 1: resentment against the person, and they might never know it,
45:07
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of tension that can happen in
45:09
Speaker 1: a situation like that because you you become so intimate,
45:14
Speaker 1: you know each other backwards and forwards. There's a constant
45:19
Speaker 1: getting together. So the more that you dislike that person,
45:23
Speaker 1: you're still forced to continue to interact with them. Well,
45:28
Speaker 1: Lee Egan Crime online dot Com. The surveillance video of
45:33
Speaker 1: the coworker getting out of the victim's car is not
45:37
Speaker 1: the only video, is it. It is not. They also
45:40
Speaker 1: have a video of her her dumping trash into a dumpster,
45:44
Speaker 1: which is what led the police to the Georgia landfill
45:48
Speaker 1: to begin with. Because the dumpster that she used, they
45:52
Speaker 1: take that trash to that landfill in Georgia. Aha. So
45:55
Speaker 1: there's the answer to my mystery. My mystery was it's
46:00
Speaker 1: on one drive all the way to this landfill. But
46:04
Speaker 1: you just answered it for me. That took some good
46:06
Speaker 1: detective work from police Lee Egan to know to go
46:11
Speaker 1: to that dumpster. Do we know where the dumpster was located?
46:14
Speaker 1: It was in a commercial area in Jacksonville, AH. So
46:19
Speaker 1: that clears up a lot. They had to use a
46:22
Speaker 1: lot of powers of deduction and use their gray cells
46:25
Speaker 1: to figure this one out by combing surveillance video at
46:29
Speaker 1: dumpsters throughout the area to catch the coworker throwing away trash.
46:35
Speaker 1: They didn't know what was in that trash, but maybe
46:37
Speaker 1: it was an odd time of day or night, like
46:40
Speaker 1: one am or two ams. She's throwing out the trash
46:42
Speaker 1: at a dumpster. Why not just putting in your kitchen
46:44
Speaker 1: trash and put it out by the street. But still
46:48
Speaker 1: we don't know where is Joelene. But we fear the worst. Listen,
46:55
Speaker 1: I want answers more than anybody else wants answers, and
47:00
Speaker 1: I feel confident that will have those answers soon enough.
47:04
Speaker 1: We will continue. We will not cease praying my daughter
47:10
Speaker 1: will be found and there will be more evidence. I
47:13
Speaker 1: want justice. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend.
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