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Moulin Rouge with Daniel O'Brien · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hi,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Laftas, and we are the hosts
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of the Bechtel Cast. Yeah, okay, okay, bye. No. I
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: am excited for today. It's just I'm still getting used
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: to us being in a different space. I think that's
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: part of what it is. Right, We're in transition, right now,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: We're in transition. It's like it's just the thing is,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: we're in a space that I would argue is far
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: less oppressive and well ventilated, and but it's somehow making
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: me nervous. I like being here because my good friend
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Sammy is recording for us today. Yes, Hi, Hi, Fammy,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: say so. The Bechtel Cast is inspired by the Bechdel Test,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and it requires that a move. We has two female
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: characters who have names, who speak to each other and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: cannot be talking about a man. Right. Not only do
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: we talk about whether or not a movie passes the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: backdel test. We also talk about all kinds of ship
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: regarding the portrayal of women in movies. We use it
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: as a yardstick to begin a larger I feel like
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: we're both were in a new space. We were sitting
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: like kind of well, let's introduce our guests. I feel
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: like that will really, you know, equalize things. I'm ready.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: He okay, he has a real intro too, But we
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: need to say our guests did bring everyone but himself
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: micsard lamon, which is truly the most generousing anyone can do.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I have yet to open mind, So just give me one.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Can you bring the hits up listeners live for the hiss.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I get emails every day about the
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: hiss of the Mike's hard and it's stop. It's nice
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: and we like it. I mean, thank you anyway. Our
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: guest um he is a very funny fellow and he
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: is the author of How to Fight Presidents. Dan O'Brien, Hi,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Thanks for being here.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I really hope I'm not like the weird element that
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: changes your energy. No, it's for sure our fault. We
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be blaming ourselves so much though we're strong, smart women.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: This is something I come up against again and again
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: where it's just like, Okay, I can be a feminist
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and also I hate myself as an individual. And it's
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: confusing sometimes because you're like, do I hate women? No,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I just hate me and that's okay, Jamie, I want
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you to love yourself. Well that's like a whole other podcast.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Sorry anyway, So, Dan, you brought us the movie Mulin
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Rouge I did. Yeah, I'm so I didn't tell us.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: So what's your history with this movie? Is there any
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: particular reason you chose this one? I knew I wanted
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: something musical because I'm a music theater kid, uh and
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: just wanted to play in that world. And like, it's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: really hard to find a group of people that are
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: willing to talk to me about musicals. Oh my god,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I've been waiting. So wait, what kind of musical? Like
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: high school? Or did you did you bring it into college?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Did you bring it after college? Because that's a move. Oh,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: it started way early. I started from Jersey originally, and
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: we went to I saw my first Broadway show probably
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: when I was in sixth grade, and then I started
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: doing local community theater immediately thereafter, and then was like
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: fully identified as musical theater kid in high school and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that was that was my So you'll be prepared to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: burst out into song with us. Oh definitely during this
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: episode at anytime. Great, what was your favorite role in
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: high school? I got to play Suitlist and a funny
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: thing happened on the way to the forum, which I
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: wish I would have like checked in with myself about
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: why I liked it so much that it's like a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: like a full blown clown. It's a character after Park
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: that for some reason is the lead of the show.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And when I was in high school, I just thought,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like the real thing to do is like to be
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: like romantically Like that means you're the best actors if
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: you get like Tony and West Side Store and you
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: play those kinds of roles. And I should have just
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: known at the times, like no, you're just like a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: dumb fucking clown, like like be a character actor, play
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: clown roles and where the goof is the lead? Yeah,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: it's like getting Teva. Yeah, oh here we go. You
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: know who passed pass guest of the podcast Julia Claire,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: who you may remember from Our League of their own episode. Yes,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and she just told me that she saw Alfred and
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Molina play Teva on Broadway. She mentioned that on that episode. Oh,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I wasn't listening. Well. She was like, I'm certain I
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: tells you and I was like, nay, there's audio evidence
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of it. Oh. Unfortunately I am a terrible friend, but
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I can't, but I would. I would kill to see
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Alfred Mollina played Teva. So, Dan, when did you first
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: see Mulan Rouge. I saw an VHS T. I for
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: some reason didn't see it in theaters, and I don't
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: know why, because I see almost everything that I can.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And I alone in my room watched Mulan Ruge because
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: all my friends were talking about it, and as soon
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: as it was done, I said, this is really goofy,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and then immediately watched it again, like I don't think
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I've ever watched the same movie back to back ever before,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: except from Mulan Rouge. And it's strange because it's not
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: my favorite movie. It's just a movie that I watched
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and was like, I need to to absorb when you
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: watch Rouge. Yeah, it's I mean it is, it's like
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: considered kind of a classic now, right, I think. So
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: it's like or it's like a movie that everyone remembers,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone remembers negatively per se um Jamie,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: When did you see Mulin Rouge? Weirdly, this is one
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of those movies that I think, if I had seen
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: it when it came out, it would be such a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: part of my identity to the point where I may
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: not even be here. But what does that mean? I
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: would be living in France and I thought you meant dead?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Would you would have passed away? You would have deliberately
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: gotten consumption just to be like Stine and right, I
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: would be like, you know, it's really hot terminal illness. No,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I I didn't. I didn't see this movie until like
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Christmas this year. Well yeah, yeah, I just saw it
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: recently and I really like it. But it's one of
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: those movies that I'm like, Man, I wish i'd see
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: us when I was like when it came out, because
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: that would have my life would have been taken over
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: by it. Yeah, I saw it, Um not right when
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: it came out. I think a few years later I
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: did a presentation on it as a freshman in college,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: where I did have you not done a presentation. But
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: now it is a good time to mention that I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: do have a master's degree in screenwriting. I have. That
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: was you know, interesting point. That's a lot of presentations.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: That's why you have so many presentations. I got two
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: degrees in film. Yeah. Anyway, So, um, this movie really
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: took hold of me in like my college years. I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: watched it like several times over the course of a
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: few years, and then I was like, I don't know,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and then I kind of forgot about and stuff watching it.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: But um, so okay, Mulin rouge. Should I do the recap? Yes? Yes,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and also you should you should speak like people sing
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: in this movie, which is just screaming for no reason,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of screams, singing gifts Marzo, You're like, whoa
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: who Elan McGregor has no concept of volume control. Or
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: there's a very deeply sadistic audio engineer who worked in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: this movie who would bring his levels up and down.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Willie ni I think he was screaming, screaming or whispering.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: He like even like my gift is Mazzo and you
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you're just like, there's a middle, there's there's others. I
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: don't know, right, You're gonna moman. I'll cover a bunch
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: of very specific but very different ground with this in
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the way that current basketball superstar Steph Curry is ruining
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: basketball for the youth because like all kids now want
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to be Steph Curry, which means they go very far
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: out and they shoot threes over and over again, ruining
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the work on like a youth level. Sorry, we don't
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: allow sports talk here on this podcast. I'll bring it
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: back then McGregor. McGregor did that for a bunch of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: boys in central New Jersey when this movie came out.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: We were all like, that's what good singing is. Back
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: was just like belting. He comes in so hot every
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: single time. What's the song he burst into at the beginning.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So when he's with John Leguizamo and the person to one,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: now imagine like a dozen chaotically horny teenage children in
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: a church in New Jersey doing that is singing. And
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I love I love when because most movie musicals, I think,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: followed this line of like you're putting movie actors in
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a musical, they usually nine percent at the time can't
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: really sing. And that's true of basically everyone in this movie.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: But it's always like treated like. It's like when Emmy
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: ras Some sings the first song in Phantom of the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Opera and everyone's like, oh my god, and it's like
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: she is a decent high school soprano at best. It's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the same thing for Ewen McGregor and Nicole Kim and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: we're like every time they sing, everyone's like, but we
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: know objectively, like this is like that this is not
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: good singing, but it sure is loud. Yeah. So the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: story of Mulan Rouge focuses on eumen gregor's character named Christian,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and he moves to Paris. He wants to be a
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: part of the Bohemian revolution and finds this group of
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: people who are writing a play called Spectacular Spectacular and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and he's just like, hey, I'm a writer, and they're like, cool,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: why don't you write this thing for us? And then
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: they have a plan to put up their play at
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the Mulan Rouge, which is a bordello, which I had
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: to look up what that is? What is that? It's
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: just another name for a brothel. So the Mulan Rouge
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: is a brothel in a dance hall where the creatures
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of the underworld hang out and this team of creatives
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: basically like open mic comedians essentially, and they're like, hey,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: let's like try to get her big break at the
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Mula Rouge. So they arranged this meeting with Satine, who
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: is like the she's a headliner. She's the headline exactly.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: When she sings poorly, everyone pays attention. She is a courtisan,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and they want to pass off Christian as a famous
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: English writer who is writing spectacular, spectacular, so that she
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: will convince Ziddler, the owner of the Mulan Rouge, Jim Bradman,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: who yes, squear icon in this movie, or you're saying
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: a sexual because Jim Broadman's character in this movie only
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: works if you assume he has no sexual organs at all.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: He has a sex lumpin gets very hot, but there's
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: nothing he can do about it. So yeah, they want
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: to basically convey and Sidler that they should put on
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: their play. Meanwhile, Ziddler is orchestrating this thing for Satine
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to meet the Duke because they want this guy, the Duke,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to invest in the Moon Rouge because he's very rich
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and very powerful. So there's this whole sort of like
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: comedy of errors where this mistake and identity thing happens,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and Satine meets with Christian thinking that he is the Duke,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: and then they magically fall in love over the course
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of one in love because he's an amazing singer during
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Ma Masa and then you have to fall in love,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: you have no choice. So then like she figures out
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: who he actually is and then she's just like, well
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: you're poor writer. Yeah, so they end up falling in
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: love and the Duke is all like, hey, wait a minute,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: what about me? And she's like she has to pretend
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: to like him. Also, meanwhile, they're constructing this place spectacular Spectacular,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: which has the exact plot of the love triangle of
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Christians the time the Duke, except their play is appropriating
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Indian culture, right, so it's like what if what was
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: happening in our lives but somehow even worse. Yeah, so
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: then like all the truth comes out where the Duke
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: finds out about Settine and Christians relationship and the throws
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a fit. Also a set she is dying of consumption
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes she goes, oh we go, oh yeah, she's she's free,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: bleeding out of her mouth and just having a really
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: bad time anyway, So yeah, all this stuff happens, and
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: then um, Christian thinks that she doesn't actually love him
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: because she has to convince him. Oh usuk, I hate you.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And it's just because she's trying to save his life,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and it's the whole thing. And then at the end
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they put on the play. It basically turns into an
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: UCB improv show at the end, and then it's basically
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: a really high product and value three oh one showcase
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that they do at the end, right, and and then's
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the team dies, and then Christians really sad about it
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and he's the real victim here. That's the story. Do
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we miss anything? Probably nothing crucial to the plot. I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: don't think I didn't excellent recaptain, say well what you
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: forgot the narcalyptic Argentinian that is mostly played for last
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: but doesn't actually have any bearing on the plot. There's
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a bunch of weird, right, there's to lose. This is
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: one of these movies that is plot wise about twelve
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: minute long. Yes, yeah, yeah, which is fine. That's that's
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: the nature of the musical movie. Very often, it's hard
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to write movies. So you write one there's a musical
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: within it, just make it the same things. So I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: guess to jump in the plot. I mean, at least
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: the plot starts out as being a story where a
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: group of men are trying to trick a woman so
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that they can get what they want, which is their
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: stupid play. Sounds like open my comedians to me. Well, well,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: even going back a little further than that, just like
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that were introduced to Christian as like this
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: genius who can just improvise classic songs from the past century.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Is so it's really funny to be where all the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: jukebox musical elements to this movie are just even McGregor
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: yelling and being applauded, because especially in that scene where
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I mean and that that's an interesting thing to talk about,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the first scene between Settine and Christian where she assaults
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: him a little bit and then he squirms away and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: then immediately improvises a very famous Elton John song and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: then they're in love. You're just like, this is I'm
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: almost like when I saw that, I'm like, I guess
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't see this movie when I was ten,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: because that is a very strange precedent. Yeah, like yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: she so she thinks that he is the duke and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: because she is a sex worker. She's meant to be
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: seducing him so that he will invest in the Mulan Rouge. Yes,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: which I think, uh powerhouse comedic performance by Nicole Kidman,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: who I don't think it's enough credit for being very funny,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: but watching this movie again last night, she's very funny
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: in it. And that scene is incredibly silly because he
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: wants to do poetry and she wants to do sex,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and then and they don't talk about it, and when
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: he starts a studying poetry and she just goes, oh,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that's right, this is what I want, naughty words, and
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: then she starts like she's coming all over the couch.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: It's so funny. She's like flailing around like she's she's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: going to hurt herself, especially because it was like she's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: terminally ill. She just can't be flailing herself around like that.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: She's going to pass out. And then eventually she she
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: she fake hornies herself into a dizzy spell. Right, Yeah,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Well you know that problem when you're trying to hook
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: up with a guy and he's like, no, I want
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to read you a poem. This is a problem problem.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: But I do appreciate Christian's behavior in this scene because
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: she's like throwing herself at him and he's like, is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: this okay? Is this what you want? Because he's there
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: just thinking he's going to recite his poetry for her,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: not realizing that she is expecting to be having sex
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: with him, So he's like, are you sure, but like
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he's he understands consent, he doesn't understand consent, but also
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: he's like, no, don't fuck me. I'm just trying to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: trick you. But it's a weird between I'm trying to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: trick your personality right right. So at the end, so
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that scene ends by her realizing that he is not,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in fact the Duke and is actually a penniless writer,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and then she was like gross, an open mit comedian.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And then they part ways. But then he's like, oh
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: my god, I can't stop thinking about her. So he
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: returns to her elephant, where she hangs out in her
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: big hollow elephant in the sky, scales the walls of
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the elephant, scares her not unlike snow White, and then
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and then sings a song in her which makes her
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: fall in love. Song, what my Gift is My One song? Yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: we were doing caitln and I watched this movie together
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Friday night and we were doing a mashup of men
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: scaling a wall and then singing one song. I have
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: a note that I did Friday night. I guess that
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: just says Ewen screaming bangs McGregor, and that's the whole note. Wait,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: how do you say his name? It's as far as
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I know Owen. Yeah. Oh, another note, I had a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: lot of xylophone in this movie. There are a lot
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of sound cues in this movie, very silly. It's yeah,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I have all caps sound effects as a thing because
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: it's it really happens a lot like there's I think
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the beginning of this movie has one of the most alienating, wacky,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: aggressive intros of any movie that I can think of,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: because once it's settin and Christian meet, I think, like
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: starting from your song, it's sort of unfold like a
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: movie you'd expect to unfold. It's far school and it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: silly and nobody's cool in it. But in the beginning
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: it starts with bearded Christian writing and it's like Paris
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Dred's like I gotta tell a story now, and then
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: it's like fuck you, Paris and it goes back to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: when he meets a Tina and he starts writing this story.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: The cutting is very quick, it's very very jumpy, and
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: he's talking about like he's sitting at his typewriter. Young
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Owen McGregor is saying, like, I want to write a
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: play about love. There's only one problem. Smash cut to
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: his face. I've never been in love. And it's like,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this is such a silly yeah, And before you can
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: even like wrap your head around it, it's like and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: then uh, anocalyptic Argentinia man through my ceiling with is
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that John Leguizamo For some reason, it's it's it really
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: seems like announces itself. That is like, hey, here's our
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: silliest ship up front, and if you're not ready for it,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: you shoul just like walk out now because the rest
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of you're not gonna like it. Then they also have
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: John Leguizama, who is not a little person, playing a
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: little person and yikes, but there is an actual little
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: person in this movie, one of the women in the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, who works one of those sex workers. Another
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: another brilliant note I had is the primary cast is redheaded,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: which is maybe bactal cast. First, very progressive great represent redheads,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, natural redhead, Jim Bradben red and out in
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: this one, Ellen McGregor, Brunette boo, e's a dick. And
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: then wait, the dude, the Duke, he's like a strawberry blonde.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: He's a he's a I'm a hot ginge. I wouldn't
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: go so far as to say that, Okay, I like
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I like the Duke because he this movie is so cartoony,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and the Duke reminds me of a trope that has
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: been unpacked and examined within an inch of its life,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: But like the queer villain trope where I feel like
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that is the Duke, even though he is also aggro
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and hetero at the same time. It's like he's stylized
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: like a cartoony queer villain, like a jaffar basically with
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like his twirly little mustache, and it's like he but
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: then it's also like, oh no, he's aggressively hetero and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: very toxic at the same time. Right, there's a line
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: in the movie where he, I mean, it's very clear
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that he sees Setine as a piece of property that
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: he is paying for, and he literally equates her two
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: items and he says he's like, I'm not a jealous man,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I just don't like people touching my thing. Yes, yes,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: that was so at least that's you. His talk masculinity
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: is used to show that he is a villain, because
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that doesn't always happen in movies where you know, sometimes
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: there's toxic masculinity and we're supposed to identify with that character,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: so at least we'll understand to rape her. Okay, Yes,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: there is a very difficult to watch rape scene. That
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: scene is bananas on so many levels because it is
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: also scored to a really poor karaoke version of Roxanne
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: by the Police, which, listening to the lyrics, now a
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: problematic song. Sure. Yeah. And speaking of problems, who is
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Setene eventually saved by a character named lay Shock a Lot?
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: That's right? Who is the black man who works at
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the Mulon Rouge? Only black person in the movie, I
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: believe so. And his name is basically Chocolate and it's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: never spoken. You have to go on the im we
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: here at one time, do you know, someone says thank
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you Shock a Lot? And I've seen it maybe like
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen times at this point, and never picked
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: up on that, and then last night Austin and was like,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: surely they said John Claude or something like that, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to give them to the benefit of
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: the doubt, and then went to I Amdb and it's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a lot. There's also a character played by an Asian
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: woman named China Doll, which we don't find out in
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the movie, but it's on IMDb. So there's some really
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: problematic and the whole play where they're just appropriating the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: culture and there's all white people in that play. Well,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: not great. Not a great precedent to set back. Okay,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: so back to the back to the rape scene. I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: hate that I have to say that, yeah, we're edging
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: away from racial appropriation, we're getting back to the rapes
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: to at this point, got it, got it, got It?
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So that scene, I think it's the documentary misrepresentation that
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: talks about this. We're oftentimes in movies, a rape scene
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: will be framed not that dissimilar from an actual, like
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: consensual sex scene where it's like kind of sexy almost
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: you know. Obviously that's a horrible way to frame rape.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that at least this movie doesn't do that.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I also, I think that's necessarily true. There were this
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: whole time and this whole so it's done to the
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: rock sand song Oh yes, and we're cutting so that
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: whole scene, you're cutting back and forth between the dude
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: basically attempting to rape Setene. Uh, and then we're cutting
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: back to like a very sexy musical number. I think
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: that that definitely contextualizes it in a very bizarre way.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think you know. That to me says drama,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't say danger necessarily. I don't know. I mean,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I think when you're watching it, you do get the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: sense of like, she like it's really hard to watch
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and yeah, like she's scared, and it's definitely I don't
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: know it is I see your point. I just think
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: paying rape to a musical like that is a very
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: choice for sure. They also do a really strange like
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: pre softening of it, or an attept to press soften it,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I guess with before this, Jim Broadbent and the Duke
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: do a cover of Madonna's like a version because Jim
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Rodburn is trying to explain why Seten has not come
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to the Duke to sleep with him. It's like, oh,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: she's gone fassing. She wanted to confess her sins and
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: be pure because the duke makes her feel virginal. And
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: then they both like growl at each other very wet
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: mouthedly about how great versions are. And then which is
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: crazy because Jim Broadbent's character is neutered. Yeah, so Jim
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Broadban like dresses up like a woman in that scene
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: and the duke chases her around, and it's played like
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Benny Hill goof up thing, like, look at the duke
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: chasing around this this woman. Isn't that funny? He's gonna
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: do it for real later the dance and waiters. Yeah,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that I didn't even think of that as Yeah, that
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: is kind of like a warm of like a very
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: goofy scene featuring the rapist. And then you see the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: rape in the next scene. Didn't I didn't even think
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. Man. At the end of the rape scene,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: she is rescued by character Christian comes and no, she's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: rescued by Oh, she's rescued, and then he comes in
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and she's like, I was scared, And so the conclusion
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to the rape scene is like and she could not
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: save herself, and the character that is a whole other
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: issue this movie has rescues her for the second time
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: because he also catches her at the beginning when she's
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: go she falls off of a circus swing. Not to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: make light of consumption, I think that we can make
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: light of consumption is not a problem. So no, it's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: isn't it the same thing as to bercular okay, h,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: which is still a thing. We just don't call it
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: consumption anymore. So, not to make light of a serious
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: illness tuberculosis saving. But yeah, so yeah, she does have
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to be saved. I have conflicting feelings about seems like
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: where like a lot of times when a woman has
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to be saved in a movie, it's because like the
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: super villain captured her and she has no agency and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: she can't do anything for herself, and she needs the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: male superhero to come and fix everything and to save her.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: It feels a little bit different in a situation where
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: a woman is being assaulted and someone intervenes and steps
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: in to save her. So like, obviously I want that
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: to happen. If there is an assault taking place, I
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: want someone to intervene, assuming she isn't in the position
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: to do that for herself. I deeply dislike the scene
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: on every level because the takeaway from that scene is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: also like it uses in sort of the classic way
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: that media often does, uses rape as a plot device,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: and that is the final thing that launches her into
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: realizing she truly loves Christian because she was almost raped
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: by the duke, and that is so like that happens
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: all the time, using rape as like the final thing
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to convince the woman that she's actually in love with
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: someone who hasn't attempted to rape her, even though that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: person is very possessive and weird and yelling all the time. Which, yeah,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that was also one of my least favorite parts about it,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: that the reason that she fought him wasn't because she
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: didn't want to get raped, for the violation aspects of
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: it and the removal of power and just the everything
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: terrible about rape. It is because she explains to Christian later,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't go through with it because I really
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: love right right. She doesn't even tell him that he
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: attempted to rape her. She yeah, she just contextualizes it
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: as like, I don't want to be this person anymore.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have to like sell my body
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to please men, and you know, which perpetuates a message
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that that was a necessary thing to happen to her
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to get her back to the protagonists. And that's just
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: like you see that when you're super young. That's like
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: just a nasty little precedent, right to say. And I
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: want to talk more about Christian like being extremely possessive
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of her, because both of the characters that are vying
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: for Statine's love are extremely possessive of her. It's villainized
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: more in the Duke obviously. Well then also Jim brodbin's
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: her in a non sexual way, in a business way, right,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: it's true business. Yeah. So christians arc goes from he
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: quickly falls in love with her, and she sort of
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: acts like she loves him, and then she actually does
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: fall in love with him, and then they're canoodling behind
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: the scenes and like having this clandestine relationship. Meanwhile, he
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: is upset that she has to be spending time with
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the Duke because Ziddler keeps being like, hey, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: he's he holds the deeds to the Moonlan Rouge, you
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: have to appease the Duke. And to be fair, Setine
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Is does seem to have a vested interest in the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Milon Rouge succeeding, and she's not pushing against Ziddler that
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: much because she's she has a vested interest in the
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: businesses success as well. So she's going to do her job. Yes, yeah, yeah,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And we'll get into a whole other station about sex work.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I spoke to a sex worker and I was just like, hey,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: can you give me some insight and anticipation of this episode? Yes, wow, yeah,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I do my research. That's so le So I want
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to get into that in a moment. But um so
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Satin's character, she understands what her job is, and Christian
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: knows also the nature of her profession and that she
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: has sex with other people for various reasons, and it
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: makes him very jealous, and several different scenes throughout the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: course of the movie to the point where his arc
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: sort of ends with she has convinced him that she
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't love him anymore in an attempt to save his
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: life because the Duke's like, I'm going to get my
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: man servant love joy sorry Titanic reference to murder Christian.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: So she like sends him away and he's like depressed
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and having an emo episode about it in his bed,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: and episode just go away, please stop you like a
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: John Logzalla. So then he's like, wait a minute, there's
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: something weird about this. I have to go see what's wrong.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So he sells this typewriter, gets all this cash drama,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: confronts Settin in the middle of their play, throws money
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: at her, and he's like, I've paid my whore and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: it's a very so hot love when people screen it
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: at me when I'm in the middle of doing something.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: He's clearly a feminist di com in that moment. She
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: also told him in song in the beginning of the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: movie that they shouldn't be together because you will be mean,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I won't and then smash cut
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to the end of the movie where he's throwing money
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: at her and calling her horror and like storming off
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: on her opening night. Yeah, foreshadowing. So he is not
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: respecting like the boundaries of her work and not respecting
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the nature of her work and can't hang. He cannot hang.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: His problem is he cannot hang. And so that is
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a huge problem because so Setine, I have a lot
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: of conflicting thoughts about this movie, where I think it's
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: interest sting and even cool that we see a movie
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: where one of the main characters is a sex worker
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and it is like hyper glamorized, and you know, it's
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: very flashy, and her life is made to seem like
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: really extravagant, and a lot of times when we're seeing
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: depictions of sex workers and movies, they are like tattered
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: women who are addicted to drugs, and they're like work
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in the streets. And that is true for some sex workers.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: There's some sex workers where they do live sort of
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: an upscale, glamorous lifestyle, and then there's a whole other
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: kind of branchise suppose of sex work where it's kind
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of middle class, and this has been ushered in by
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the Internet era, and the sex worker I spoke with
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: today basically advertises her services online, is able to screen
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: her clients, feels very liberated in her job. This job
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: is her choice. She wants to be doing this. She
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't forced by anyone. She's not doing it to support
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: a drug habit or anything like that, which is what
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I think. A lot of people have an understanding of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: what sex work must be or that's the means to
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that end. So there's a whole ton of people doing
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: a type of sex work where it's like on their
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: terms and this is what they want to be doing
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: and they are proud to be doing this, and media
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: almost never touches on this or porchas this in any way.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: So I was basically just asking, like, how do you
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: feel about depictions of sex work in movies like Mulan Rouge,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And she was just basically saying, like it's treated as
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: something that both male characters are trying to save Setine
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of trying to like get her out of this lifestyle
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and even settin in the movies like oh, I can't
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: wait to be a great actress like Sarah Bernhardt, she
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: has like desires outside of being a sex worker. And
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: again that might be true for a number of people
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: in sex work profession, but that's not necessarily true. So
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and granted you also have to consider the time that
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: this movie is taking place in It's turned the century France,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: where I would argue probably not a thoroughly researched part
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: of the movie because they are singing fat boy slim
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of really just on the historical accuracy level.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I never understood why John Louizaa plays on to loose
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: La Trek, who was a real person who lived at
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: this time and was a little person that had a cane.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That's a real person who existed in the art scene
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: didn't and no one else in the movie is real,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: but they picked this one person and they're like, well,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: we need like for some Vario similitude, we need to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: loose La Trek in there, and then Christian and Shock
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a lot and Satin and a much of other made
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: up people. I don't understand why I think that that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: that you bring up the the idea that sex work
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: is something that the team would have to be saved from.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: This kind of reminded me of this is a fun
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: roundabout plug. We recently did a bonus episode on The
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Big Lebowski, and I recognize a similar theme here where
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: there's two very specific types of toxic masculinity presented in
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: this movie, and it's clear which kind the movie favors.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You know. So we have the Duke, who is a
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: capitalist and entitled and a rapist, bad across the board,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: bad bad, bad. But then you look at the Christian
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: character and he's not a good guy. He is still
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: very entitled, he is still jealous and possessive, and that
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: form of toxicity is not challenging anyway by the movie,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and in fact, the movie is like, this is what
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you want you, this is the guy I And I'm
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: also just so tired of like movies being like you
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: should date a loser. It's like, you know what, Actually,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want to Setina's out earning him to like
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: an absurd degree in this movie, I'm like, why are
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you putting up with this loser who's just like, hey,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: you stop kissing on their boys. I'm like, get a
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: job there. Anyways, you're going to ruin my romantic life
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: as a unemployed writer who streams a lot and unemployed
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: screaming icon Ellen middle parts screamer McGregor. There's if there's
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: one saving grades for this movie. If I want to
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: give the movie more credit than it probably deserves in
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: terms of being clever, which I shouldn't um, the framing
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: device of the movie is still this is the story
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: as told from Christians perspective. So what we're seeing is
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: what he has written out on his hypewriter, his play
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: or movie or book. You know what, he does have
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a masters from bu that's for sure. I don't know
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: if I want to give bos enough credit for this.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: But if I'm being generous, I would say, bos, you
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: made this so very clearly males story with women that
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: need to be saved because it's a The guy who's
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: writing it is wrong, and that's if I want to
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: go two levels in and give him extra credit. I
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: don't think that was the thought that went into it.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think they thought, let's make a love story,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: but let's make sure that it's written from a males
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: perspective and problematic because of that. Lens Little Boss, Bosses
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of polarizing guy. He wears Aviator sunglasses a lot. He's Australian.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: This is the third movie in his Red Curtain trilogy.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: He's just you know, I'll say a boss is a
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: piece of work and he needs to chill out. And
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the Great Gatsby sucked eggs. Oh yeah, What are the
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: other in the Red Curtain trilogy? Strictly Ballroom from which
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that is? Romeo plus Juliette, Clara
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Dains and Leonardo DiCaprio, lots of Hawaiian shirts. Jamie Kennedy,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Jamie Kennedy, the Jamie Kennedy Experiment. I want to marry
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: into the family stuff, so I and then I want
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to become the dominant jam I want to get into
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: But he's not of the Kennedy's is he. No? No,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: no family. No, I want to marry into the Kennedy's.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Here's my plan. I need to Mary into the political
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: dynasty Kennedy's and then become a more powerful Jamie Kennedy
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and oh okay, and then fight Jamie Kennedy. And that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, there's a more powerful Daniel O'Brien in
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the world. That really Yeah he was an orphan who
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: went on to become a gold medal winning Olympic well ship. Yeah,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: there's nothing I could do. I've tapped the Jamie Loftus,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: who's a really successful realtor in St. Louis shout out.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I'll fight her any day. But now it's like, well,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I gotta Step one, Mary Kennedy. This will be easy.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Step to figure out Jamie Kennedy contact information, and this
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: will be harder. Step three. Challenge him to a public fight.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Step four, get very strong. Step five, beat Jamie Kennedy up.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Step six, start a show called the Jamie Kennedy Experiment.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Step six, seven, seven, have my version of the Jamie
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Kennedy Experiment go on exactly one episode longer than the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: original Jamie Kennedy experiment. That's the plank, that's the that's
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the real Jamie Kennedy experiment. Great, best of luck to
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you and that so much so. Yeah, you're right, the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: story is totally from the male perspective. And side note,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: like the opening shots you see in the Mulan Rouge
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: of like all the dancers, it's a lot of like
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: disembodied female body parts and like women lifting. There's and
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: it just feels like very kind of headless women of Hollywood.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Shut objectifying. You're not going to believe this, but every
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: major behind the scenes player in this movie is a man.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Right directed, produce, screenplay, cinematography, editing, all and most of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the characters are men. You would think that a movie
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: set in a brothel would feature more characters who are women.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: What is the name of the other female character who? Okay,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to talk about her a little bit,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: but I don't know what her name is. Marie. I
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: could call in her old carpet bangs because she has
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: these crazy tassel bangs. She's mean and that's all I know.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Nini is the one who talks to Duke and he's like,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: why would she get with the pene list writer. Honestly,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: fair point by all carpet things, I identified closely with
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Attle carpet things, where she's just like why is she
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: dating that fuck boy? Why is it what? And it's like, okay,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: fair carpet things, but like who are you and why
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: are you so angry? Where she's the only other employee
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: of the Mulin rouge who's a woman that we really meet,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and she is and this is again like something we
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: see over and over. She's just baselessly very hateful and
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: antagonistic towards the team because women behating women, and you know,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: it's like in my I feel like the implication is,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and it's never explicitly stated, but the implication is, well,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Setina is the big star, so everyone's going to resent
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: her because she's the big star and everyone else is
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: trying to get ahead. But it's so shoehorned in just
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: because basically Carpet Bangs is there to deliver a plot point,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: which is to tell the Duke that Christian and Setina
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: hooking up, like that's why she's there, And then she's
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: also in that she's the one they're cutting back to
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: it when Setina is getting raped and it's like carpet bangs.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: You deserved better. Yeah, I well, I definitely took note
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of how there was obvious sort of like lack of
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: sisterhood or like sense of family among the sex workers
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: in and I asked the woman who was a sex
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: worker about this, and I said, like, what's your take
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: on that. I would imagine that there's more of a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: just like sense of camaraderie among these women, and she
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: said that, yeah, Bronzelis probably did sort of operate like families,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: but because they were all kind of in competition with
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: each other because they were working for a man and
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the man was collecting most of their wages, they were
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: not independently operating and therefore did sort of have to
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: be in competition with each other. So it actually kind
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: of tracks that Nini was so antagonistic towards Settin, but
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the movie does not make any I feel like that's
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: giving the movie a lot of credits. She was there
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: to deliver a platform. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the movie doesn't
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: really explore the intricacies of sex work from that time,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and I would guess probably has no fucking idea they existed,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: because the female characters are not who they're invested in
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: at all. Movie. I didn't even really know that it
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: was specifically a brothel and sex workers. I know the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: play within a play is about a Cortison and that's
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: a sex worker, but I thought Mulan Rouge was more
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: like a burlesque call, Like I learned from you that
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: this is a brothel. I thought it was a burlesque call.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And they were like not formally selling Seine to the Duke,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: but just sort of like if you marry this guy. Like,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: but yeah, now that I know that it is about
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: sex workers, it's job movie. In the opening um like
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: voiceover where Christians like typing on his little typewriter which
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: he apparently had to buy another one of because he
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: sells his first one to throw money at Setine. I'll
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: show you. So that's oh that. I had a note
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: of that too. I was like, oh, no, white male
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: writer quit, No horrible, what a loss. But he so
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: he buys another typewriter and he starts typing up his
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: story about him and Settine, and he was explaining like
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: what the Milan Rouge is, and he calls it a
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: bordello and I had to look up what that is,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: but it is synonymous with a brothel. So I think
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the first time I saw this movie, I knew that
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: they were sex workers. I like, I was like, oh,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: that's what they were. Maybe not like I feel like
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I knew that good, but just because I knew what
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Milan Rouge was, right. Yeah, you also wrote up opening
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: shots of them where you just see like legs of
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: women dancing and like they lift up their skirts you
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: see underwear. Uh, just in googling a little bit last night.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Originally they wanted that to be they would have no
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: one to wear, so it would just be like a
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: parade of headless vaginas. And then they wanted the PG
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: thirteen ratings, so they decided not to do that. But
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: that's almost how this movie opened. That's horrifying. But I
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: do love as a nickname the headless vagina. Um. I
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: wanted to mention because I just double checked because I
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, Nini, I did not catch that name,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: but she is credited as her last name, Ninie Legs
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: in the air. Unbelievable. Great God, It's like I get
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: that you're training to have a fun time but please stop,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: please stop. Oh Kylie Minogue is in this movie, I'm
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: the Green Fairy. Well that's an original, Okay, So let's
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how bohemia is presented in
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: this movie, because it is a very like utopian thing
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: for a very specific kind of person. Where at the
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: beginning where they're like be do you freedom like foe
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: guys are on a balcony screaming beauty, freedom, truth and love,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and then there's like a gyrating Kylie Minogue like grabbing
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: in her own tips and being like, yeah, they're so right,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: and it's like, it's just I don't know. I just
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: didn't That sets the precedent for what the movie is
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: because then they're because when they're singing that, they're like,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: let's go trick a lady and they're going off and
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: then they try to do it. Yeah, I don't know
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: that was I was just like, man, this movie is
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: sure to come out in two one. Geez, same Trek
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: everyone two thousand one people are like a difficult ear
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: for us because of Shreky to Trek, why Strick two
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: is the better? Cuss? I owned Trick two on DVD anyway,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: So it's actually I would say pretty than the first.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I would most likely five, because fives in production is
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: three through five. Scrap them, don't eat them. Puss in Boots,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. Speaking of Puss in Boots, though
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: didn't know that cats have eight nipples. Cat facts. With Caitlin,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: there was like there was a cat in this movie
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: for like a second, isn't Yeah, It was like when
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: one of the bohemian apartments. Oh sure I didn't pick
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: up on it. Wow, I was surprised you didn't squeal
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: when we watched the movie together. But I was like,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: you know, me always squiling when I see that was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a poor characterization of who you are as a person.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Just a little bit more on Satine and how because
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: she is framed as like the object of several different
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: people's affections movie and she's given agency, but a lot
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: of her behavior is also like kind of wild, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: she's a sex worker who is portrayed not l I
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: would say, but perhaps better than sex workers in a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: lot of movies, where she has some degree of agency
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and she does stand up for herself toward the end
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: whenever she's about to go run off with Christian and
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: she's you know, confronting Ziler instead something like you've only
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: ever made me feel like I was worth what someone
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: would pay for me. And she's like, I'm tired of
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: your games, Like I don't, I'm sick of the Mulan rouge.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: We're leaving and that Jim Bradvan does not tell her
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: she is going to die. Yes, he knows problem, and
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: that's when he reveals it to her. He's like, you're talking,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: he's got I mean, which we were saying when we're
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: watching the movie. We're like, oh, he's got a trump card.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: He's got a Trump card. He's got a Trump card,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: which is so manipulative. Like the fact that they were
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: withholding that information from her is insane. I mean, I
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: am going to do that to Jamie Kennedy. But also
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: I view that as reparations also like a bizarre I
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: guess I don't know this reflective of nineteen hundreds France
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: or not, but she'd been going to that doctor for
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a while and it was just one point where the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: doctor was just like, is there a man that I
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: could tell about her condition? Like like even the doctor
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't tell her, just like, is there like an older
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: male figure around like a policeman or something that I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: could just tell I wouldn't be surprised if that were
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: a standard in in a bordello of like, oh, we're
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: not going to communicate directly with the patients. I'm sure
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't like ethical, but that was a while
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that because you knew, like the audience knows that so
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: early on. And Setina is just like, I have this
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: persistent cough and it's like no, Also, women be fainting,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: but I guess in this movie she's fainting for it's
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: a motivated faint, but still it's just like, okay, So
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: my point is I like that you at least get
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: to see her stand up for herself finally, at least
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: we get to see her stand up. At least we
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: get to see her type five. She's a headliner. She's
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: she's doing, she's working after her it's free French friend.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: She's going to submit her half our favorite part to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: halfy Central any day now. It's gonna be great. She
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: could do great. So at least you get to see
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: her stand up for herself. You know, doesn't really get
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: her anywhere, and she does, in fact die at the
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: end of the movie. Oh and can I say I
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: did really admire the way that she dies, which is
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: again very plot driven and informs the entire framing device
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: of the movie, but with her dying breath. So the
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: team gives Christian homework assignment, which is super dup, and
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I will remember that when I am dying to be
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: like before I go write a novel about me goodbye,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: just like he has to do it now or he's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: the biggest asshole in the entire world and there was
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: no room for him to be Like I can't. I
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: sold my typewriter to call you a horn in front
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: of your friends. Wait, is it gonna get read? I
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: cannot wait to a die be give someone a homework,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a very complicated homework assignment that is basically a shrine
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: to me as I die, like to make sure there's
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: clean water for everyone dies, Like shit, yeah, oh yeah,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to die anyway. So getting so sweaty
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: doing bits, I'm sorry, Dan, that's gonna be of my
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: life time of trying to get nicknames to stick. Dan,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: sweaty bits, that's gonna be the one that's the one
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that you want. No, it's not big Dragon, It's gonna
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: be sweaty bits on my tombstone? Have you sorry? Have
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you tried for big Dragon? I did? Well? Yeah, my
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: life is like super not real. I'm not a real person. Um,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I don't legitimately think I should be called big Dragon.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I think the idea of a person insisting on being
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: called big Dragon is are you funny? To me? So
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, it wouldn't be cool if I was
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: like a character who did that, and I just do
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: it in real life, because I because life, life is
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: a movie. Everyone wasn't some people do that's exciting. I'm
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: gonna put an end to either. Everyone should start addressing
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: me as Jamie Kennedy and just put that vibe out there,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and then Mary Kennedy and kill the other Jamie Kennedy.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Do you know, are there a bunch of young Kennedy's
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: running around? Still? There are Taylor switches sucking some of them.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: They're around, They're around, and they're erect and they're they're
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: ready for you. You just have to lookate them. Great.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Caitlyn is strategically already deleting this in her mind. You know,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? I'm trying to like figure out
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: what my like faces statement for this episode is because like,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I can't really I just don't know how I feel
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: about like Satine and her. I don't know. The one
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: argument I would make for this movie, because it does
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: make so many missteps in terms of representing literally anything,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: is that it is so extremely silly and removed from
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: reality that I would hope and again, it's different when
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: you have a very young audience coming to a movie
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: like this, but I would hope that for the every
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: man adult basically, that you wouldn't leave this movie being like, oh,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: a blueprint of how to behave in reality, you know,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: where where some movies I feel like are are are
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: more problematic at a deeper level because they're portraying normal
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: people behaving very toxically, where at least everyone in this
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: movie is so cartoonishly removed from what reality is now
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: or probably ever at any point in time, because people
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: are just people will be singing in eggs or elephants
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is that it's presented as a farce,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and that doesn't make the problematic parts less bad, but
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: it does make them easier to dis this totally. And
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons I like this
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: movie so much, because as we all know I don't
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: like musicals generally, but I really like this movie. And
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's because the reason I don't like a
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: lot of musicals is that I just have a really
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: hard time suspending my disbelief for like people just suddenly
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: bursting into song. But because this movie is so cartoonish
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: and so far removed from everything that we recognize as reality.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Then I'm like, because I mean everything between the production
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: design and Boss Lerman's like, hey, like half of the
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: scenes in this movie, Boss Lerman's like, get every red
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: gel in Hollywood and then put him on the lights.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: And then for the other half, get me every blue
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: jeal is Hollywood and put it on the lights. So like,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: the movie just looks so wild, like the costumes and
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the set design and everything about it is just like
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: so flashing and wild that we don't like. That's why
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I'm able to suspend my disbelief for this movie. And
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: this movie was like influential and that it put the
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: ability to make a Hollywood movie musical briefly back on
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: the map as a viable thing you could do. It
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: was only for like five or so years, and then
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: by the time we hit Rent and like Rock of
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Age as everyone's like, oh, yis you know what barrier
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: for a couple of decades and we'll try again. But
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: this and then a few years later Chicago where the
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: two hit movies that it's like, maybe we can and
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: then they made fandom of the Opera and Rent and
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: the like perhaps we should put in a little too
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: close to the sun on those. Yeah, but that I
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I like that the same reason that you do, Caitlin.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And there there's a Boss Lerman quote about and I
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: don't I'm not a big boss Lerman guy because I
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: agree that Gatsby is full trash. I'm not a boss boy.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: But he was influenced by and it's insane that he
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: didn't let this influence spread into the casting. But when
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: he was in India working on something and he saw
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: a buch of Bollywood films, he was really heavily influenced
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: by that and how much joy there was in the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: cinema and how the audience was participating, and he was saying,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: as there, would we ever be able to do that
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: in the West, Would we will ever be able to
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: be not cool and just lean into uncoolness? And in
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: service of just sharing this story with a singular voice,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: and I hate coolness, and I think most movies are
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: too cool for for for school these days. And I
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: like the idea of the Big Dragon O'Brien, but a
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: statement movies are too cool. Be my friend, you know what?
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: These days too cool? So he went to Bollywood and
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: he's just like, hm, I could appropriate this white if
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I still that's interesting. I didn't know that that totally
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: makes sense, especially given the play within the play is
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: sort of like reflecting that directly. You know, It's like,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I am not upset this movie exists at all. I
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: enjoy watching it. The problems are very clear. I don't
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: know what it is that you're just like but as
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Melan Rouge, Like yeah, I think it's also like you.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: You're both probably pretty lucky that it didn't come to
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: you in high school like it came to me right
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: around September eleven, because it did make us all very
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: insufferable for a while, like yeah, I mean, well people
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: are looking for escapes. Yeah, I I love Mulan Rouge,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: and then for a couple of years like distance myself
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: from it because like the the cult of people who
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: are really into Mulan Ruge was like Oh that's not
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be Where is there a based
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: issue with this movie that makes sense? Um? I think
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: it's it's rolled into the to the broader fan base
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: of really irritating theater kids in general. Just we're gonna
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: go to Friday's after the show. We're still gonna have
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: our old line makeup on our foreheads, and we're gonna
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: sing rent and everyone's gonna love it. The rest of
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: the restaurant is gonna be like, what a treat? Does
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: no one have any final thoughts about the portrayal of
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: women in the movie, mug I don't think we talked
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: about Marie, who is one of the other named women
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: who has a couple of lines in the movie, and
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: she's sort of like the dead mother of the brothels,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: just like non sexually running it with Jim Broadbent, and
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: you would think, I feel like that this movie was
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: made today, she would have had a way more prominent role. Yeah, yeah,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: well that bring let's talk about whether or not this
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: movie passes deep Entel test, because several conversations take place
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: where Settine is there and Marie is there and they
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: sort of sometimes talk to each other. You know, we've
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: got I feel like you and I have to make
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: a sort of call of whether a scene should pass
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the Bactel test if when the conversation that arguably could
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: pass happens. We know both names, because I think that
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: when the arguable scenes. Unless I'm mistaken, we don't yet
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: know Marie's name, but we figure it out later, and
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: then it's like, well does this scene pass in retrospect?
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Really getting into the weeds here, Well, okay, So the
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: scene where they first interact, it's after Settine has fainted, right,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: and then deposits her. In this Marie is holding some
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: smelling salts up to her and she wakes a classic revival.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And you don't know this unless you are watching the
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: movie with subtitles, on which I always do brag. You
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: do always do subtitles, you guys. Okay, so how dare
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: you subtitle shame me? Okay? Sorry? This so, so Tina
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: wakes up and it's so breathy that you don't really
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: know what she's saying, but she says Marie. Does she
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: say her name? She says her name these silly costumes
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: and then so she says her name, but you hardly
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: know that it's there, and then Marie says, just a
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: little thing in spell, and then and that's the that's
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: the line that we don't really know what she says
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: unless you're watching with subtitles on, because it's so kind
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: of garbled that it's hard to tell what she's saying.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Before that, Nanie says to oh, Nanie legs in the air,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: nany legs in the air, It can't pass. The woman's
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: name is Nanie Legs in the air. She's and she
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: talks to another woman and I don't remember exactly who
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: it is. Uh Nini says something like, I don't know
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: if the dog''s gonna get his manage last tonight. She's
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: also Michael Caine, it's like and then the other woman says,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: don't be on coined, Nini. But that doesn't pass the
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: back to test because they mentioned the duke, and also
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: we don't know that other woman's name. The scene where
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Sattine says Marie these silly costumes and then Marie says,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: just a little fainting spell. I guess passes, but we're
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: also hard to tell what any of them are saying.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: And then later on there is a scene where Marie
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: says to Satine that twinkle toast duke has really taken
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: the bait, and then Setine giggles he and then I
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: was like, what is going And then Marie says, with
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: a patron like him, you could be the next Sarah Bernhard.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: Speaking of patrons, please sign up for our patreon. Okay,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Satine responds, Marie, do you think I could really be
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: like the great Sarah? Marie says, why not. You've got
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: the talent. You hook that duke and you'll be lighting
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: up the great stages Europe. And Seteene says, I'm going
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: to be a real actress, Marie, a great actress. I'm
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: gonna fly far away from here. That does pass? I would?
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, they do talk about the duke, but because
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: we have a you know, just two lines exchange. Yeah,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: there are two lines where they are not. And yes,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the team's talking about her goals and Sarah Bernhard and
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: how she wants to be just like her. So with regrets,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Millnerge does pass the factal test, it would seem so, yes, yes,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I do think that ultimately it is bleak that we
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: are shown a majority female workplace that sidelines every of
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: those women in the movie. So significantly except for body
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: part shots also sidelines. Do you guys have thoughts to
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: forgive me if it's Aubrey or Audrey. It's the original
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: writer who I believe as a man wearing a Audrey Audrey. Yeah,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: he plays Farremire in the Lord of the Rings. I've
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: never seen a Lord of the Rings. I know. I
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: saw them as like, this is for geeks. I can't
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: believe how much you're shaming me today. I'm so I'm sorry.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's from, yeah, Audrey. I didn't know
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: if they were trying to present this is like this
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: is a potential transperson, or this is just or I'm
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: reading into it. It's just maybe that's his natural hair.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: But it felt like a like a like a bob
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: wig that he was wearing in France, hard to say,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: not a masculine name. So I didn't know what they
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: if they were trying to present a trans character, and
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: then if they were bad on you movie for replacing
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: it with the straight white male you and McGregor immediately right,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: But I don't trying to always suppress queer voices. There
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: is a very quick shot you see of two men
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: very heavily tattooed dancing together in the Moulin Rouge, but
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: like miss that. Oh yeah, there's just like a quick
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: moment of queerness do you see on screen? And then
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: it's immediately cut away from gay panic in my notes,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: but I don't know why I wrote it in all
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: caps right after sound effects and I'm trying to that's
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: early in the movie, so maybe it's is it when
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't write down the exact moment. But there is
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: a moment where there are a few tasteless jokes in
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: regards to like I think it's basically in any scene
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: where there are men hanging out together as friends, there
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: is some sort of like what is because the unconscious
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Argentinian puts his hands on Christians crotch and then he's
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: just like I love talent and he's like nothing funny,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: just like talent, yes, and then um, which is across
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the board bonkers thing to do in nineteen hundreds Bohemian
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: France if you're like this big artistic community and you're
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: like we're in truth, beauty and love, but like no
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: gay people obviously, right right. Yeah, Also, he is one
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: of two people who grabs Christians crotch in the movie,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: because later Setine is like, You've caught a huge talent,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: and they're like wow. And then all the people who
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: are spying on them, which is to loosen the other
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: the Argentinian andre freaking bays are just and also separately,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Ziddler is watching them through a telescope. It's crazy. There's
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: so much voyeurism and male gaze in this movie, which
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: is insane. Zeidler is thinking, I'm gonna watch the scene
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: have sex with the duke, and that's going to save
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: my business. I have a vested interest in this. She
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: is my employee or property or whatever terrible thing it's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: going to be. Those other guys just assume Christian is
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: going to do a poetry reading, which is a weird
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: thing to watch, and then when they discover that it's
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: not a poetry reading, they're still on board to watch.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: So I don't understand any of their motivations. Imagine if
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: the twist was Jim Bradman was watching the whole time
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: like that's such a wild Like oh yeah, Jim Bradman
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: is just casually surveilling me with his He always has
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: a scope because then he like always trying to read
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: like he sees what's happening, and then he's just like,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: I have to go intervene. He's always watching what Setena
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: is doing because he does view her as property, property
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: and oh god, anyway. So also, Kylie Minogue plays the
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Green Fairy, Ozzie Osborne plays the Green Fairies. Laugh, weird
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: way to Use Your money? Movie, interesting use of funds
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and a new podcast. Shall we write, Yes, let's write
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: the movie on our nipple scale, where we rate based
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: on the movie's portrayal of women on a zero to
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: five nipple scale. I guess I have to give this
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: movie you one and a half two. I don't think
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: it fares very well about all. Again, I'm still I'm
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: still confused about this movie because I feel like it's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: just like wild wackiness is like, oh, it's fun and
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: I like it. But at the same time, most of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: the female characters are completely sidelined. Satine is treated as
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: property by almost all of the main male characters, and
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: while she does have some degree of agency where she
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: is making her own choices and pursuing her own love
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: story and things like that, she's often dictated what to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: do by other men and isn't allowed to have any
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: sort of cathartic moment because she dies in the end
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: before she gets to do anything she actually wants to do.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, just like the depiction of sex work
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: is really complicated because I don't know, it's just a
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: really Hollywood eyes glamorized version of sex work that ignores
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of what sex work actually is. And granted,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: you could say, like, oh, well, you know, this is
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: you know, fictionalized Bohemian turn of the century Paris version
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: of all of that where things were much different, but
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just it just drives me crazy
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: when people have the opportunity in the platform, when they're
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: making a movie to depict something more positively and better,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: but they're like, actually, instead, I'm going to make a
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: movie set a hundred years or more ago and then
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: appropriate the funk out of Indian culture. So cool. Yeah,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to give it a one and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: a half. One nipple goes to Satine because she deserved
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: more and her story is told from the male perspective,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: and I want to see her side of it all.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: I want to see the story told from her ghost,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: her consumption ghost. More like Boo Boo and My half
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Nipple goes to I guess Marie because she's also very
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: much ignored for most of the movie. Yeah, I'm going
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: to give it a one, and not because I don't
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: like this movie. Again, it's that complicated thing we come
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: up against every time. But Settine is given some agency,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: but never enough that she actually gets to make her
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: own decisions. Her a decisions are always informed by the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: fact that she's dying and doesn't know it because men
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: won't tell her. Decisions are informed by the fact that
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: she is raped into realizing she should date Ewen McGregor.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Like just I feel like she has a kind of
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: a series of empty moments where it's like, oh, she's
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: realizing something. It has agency, but it's only because the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: movie is telling her what to do at every single point.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: So it feels like almost kind of like a hollow
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: sort of agency that she's given by the movie. Her
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: hand is sort of forced. Anyways, almost every time, the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: depiction of sex work is certainly very complicated. Also, the
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: fact that we are we are in this really this
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: building full of women with different perspectives, and we see
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: none of them. I mean, we see Ninie Legs in
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: the air, who is very antagonistic and are are given
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: very little context for anything other than the fact that
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Settine is being battled over by three or four different men.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Uh So, yeah, not not a progressive movie for women,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: i'd argue, but it it's you know it. It's tricky
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: because I do enjoy it. It is a fun movie
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: to watch, but in terms of how it portrays anything
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: other than straight white guys movie affairs incredibly poorly. I
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: gonna give it one and I'm gonna give my nip
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: to Chakola. You deserve better, but you are great at
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: catching people. I'll go one and a half nipples as well.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: This is nipple is not a word that I say
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: often in my life, and it's gonna just feel very
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: It's a very strange mouth feel to me right now
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: saying it into a microphone. But I agree with everything
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: that you guys said, and I know that the Times
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: movie came to me in my life and my perspective
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: with whatever my background is, means that of course I'm
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: going to find certain parts of it very enjoyable. You
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: and very You taught me how to sing very poorly.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: And but yeah, it's not it's really bad at portrayal
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: of women. I had a different perspective on it until
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I learned from you guys, because I went to the movie. Thing, Like,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman is very capable in this, Like she's the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: only one who seems like she knows what she's doing.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: She's always improvising on the fly and like getting people
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: out of sticky situation. She knows how to like the
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: scene where she has what to do, where she's like,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: the writer is just in love with me, that poor
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: penniless idiot we just needed for the show, and then
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to discard him, just like you can do anything,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: you're a politician, you can talk your way at anything.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: You're You're smart and capable. But listening to this podcast
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: that we just did and just seeing how much of
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: her agency has been taken away by everyone, I agree
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: that past Daniel and calling my shot future Daniel and
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: we'll be wrong, humble dragon. But I'll give my half
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: nipple to Nicole Kidman because again, I think she's a
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: comedy powerhouse in this and nobody talks about it enough.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: She was nominated for an Oscar for Yeah, that's great.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is against the rules or not.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I want to give my remaining nipple to the Lady
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Marmalade cover that came out an association with this movie. Okay,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: good because that song fucking bangs and there's like nineteen
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: women singing in that song and it's and it just
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: seemed like a very empowering, like it's just amazing, Yes
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: music videos video. I saw a tweet somewhere where someone
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: was saying, like, if that song was remade today, they
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: named three contemporary artists and then they were like, and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: still Pink the fourth member. She is. It's you know,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: you gotta hand it to Pink. She's got staying powers. Anyways,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: that's the that's a good note to come. Dan. We're
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: happy to have been here to educate you and and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: change your mind about everything, and and thank you so
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: much for being here. Oh thank you. I'm such a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: huge fan of the show. This is this is a
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: real big day from here. Veryanks so much for having me.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks for Mike's heart of course, I know, I'm I'm
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: a little drunk, so good. Yeah, um, is there anything
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: you would like to plug? Where can people follow you online?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: On Twitter at deal b underscore I n C. I'm
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: currently trying to get Cardi bad and notice me. She
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: gave an interview recently where she talked about being obsessed
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: with presidents. I have published two books about presidents, Cardie,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I would love to talk to you and do a
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: podcast with you about presidents. Well, Cardi is our biggest fans,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: so she will hear this. Yeah, you can follow checked out.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: You can follow us the Bacto Cast and on Twitter
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and Instagram and Facebook. Check out our website where you
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: can buy our merch. You can subscribe to our Matreon,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: which gets you five dollars a month. Nope, it gets
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: you so drunk. We will get up from a mix harder.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: And I think that what I just did was directly
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: informed by Mike's Harder. We are all disasters. Okay, you
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: donate five dollars a month to us and it gets
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: you to bonus episodes of the BacT To Cast every
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: single month, and it helps us out and then you
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: get extra content. Sounds good for you? On for you? Well,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I just want to say that my gift is my song.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't I hope you don't mind. I
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: hope you don't mind that I put down in words
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: how wonderful life is now you're the word. Bye,