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How Mike Mills Turned One Week of Childhood River Trips Into a $4 Million Resort · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Cotespotti
0:17
and today's guest is Mike Mills, founder of Buffalo Outdoor
0:20
Center located in Ponca, AR. It began in 1976 as a simple
0:26
canoe rental on the Buffalo National River.
0:29
Today, it is a full wilderness resort offering cabins, a lodge,
0:34
canoe and kayak trips, zip line canopy tours, mountain biking
0:38
and more. Its mission is to help every
0:41
visitor enjoy the Ozark outdoors while protecting the river for
0:45
the future. The Center earned Trip Advisors
0:49
Traveler Choice, awarded 2021, and is an authorized
0:53
concessioner for the National Park Service.
0:56
Mike was inducted into the Arkansas Tourism Hall of Fame in
0:59
2018 and earlier served as the state's Director of Tourism.
1:05
He grew up in Lowell, AR, served in the US Marine Corps, and
1:08
holds a biology degree from Hendricks College.
1:11
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2:08
All right, back to our guest today, the founder of Buffalo
2:10
Outdoor Center, Mike Mills. I appreciate you making the time
2:13
to Share your story today. Hey, it's my honor.
2:16
I appreciate you. So, Mike, let's go back early.
2:20
Let's talk about your time as a corporal in the Marine Corps.
2:24
What is a specific memory that you have, something that
2:28
happened there that had a lasting impact on how you
2:30
approach life and business? You know, I joined the Marine
2:35
Corps on Christmas Eve 1969. My mother knew I was going
2:41
straight to Vietnam, which I did not go to when I went through
2:46
boot camp. Boot camp is a series of, of, of
2:50
squads and there's 350 guys in the in the series.
2:56
I was the number one typist I could type.
3:02
So my Marine Corps, MOS, military, occupational specialty
3:07
was I was administration everywhere I went.
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I worked in an office and probably one of the most
3:15
impactful things was when I was in boot camp, I was very
3:21
athletic. I had a year of college behind
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me. I was a little bit smarter than
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a lot of the other people that were joining the Marine Corps in
3:36
1969. And I became the platoon honor
3:40
man. And I'll never forget being
3:42
called to the duty office, which we're all sitting out in a
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little gathering area. And then there's an office and
3:50
they, they, the staff Sergeant would bark out corporal or
3:55
private Mills at that time private Mills to the duty Hut.
3:58
And you would walk up and stand at attention in front of this
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duty Hut. And he ordered me to turn
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around. So I did an about face and he
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said the privates are looking at the series.
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Honor, man, out of 350 guys, I was #1.
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What led to that distinction? Well, I think once again, it was
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the test that I did really well on.
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I, I, I fired expert with the rifle and the pistol.
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I, I could run. I was a runner in in high school
4:35
and college and and so when we had games, I would I would win
4:43
the race that I was running in. And that gave my staff Sergeant
4:47
opportunity to go to the officers and say, there's my
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honor man candidate. And so they got to see me in
4:56
action. And it was just that that single
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thing there. There was another time when I
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want to race that was very honorable as well.
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But basically the the, the physical and and mental
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preparedness is, is what what I blame as as as my time in the
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Marine. Corps what you blame so you were
5:20
the total package Had to have been a big had to have been a
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big confidence boost for a young man.
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That that was one of the things where I say I always just keep
5:32
getting better that, that that time period gave me a lot of
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confidence. Let's talk about that always
5:42
getting better. You and I had a a, a short
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conversation before we went live with this.
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You've got a a very healthy and a different kind of mindset, the
5:50
way that you appreciate and and approach each of your days.
5:54
You know when you made a friend or family member or whatever,
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what's the first thing I say to you?
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How are you? Most people just say fine, I my
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standard answer for decades has been I just keep getting better.
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Even when I'm in the in the downs and I've had illnesses and
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that kind of stuff every day in my life, I just try to make it
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better. You know, some people would
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compare it to a fine wine every day.
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It just keeps getting better. That's the way with me at at my
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age, I, I have nowhere to go backwards.
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So the only thing I want to do is go forward and keep getting
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better doing it and. So you still summon those words
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even when you're not doing well, when you're mentally down or
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physically down the. Last couple years I've had some
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hospitalization for surgeries that I had that weren't really
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my fault, but it just happened. And the nurses, the nurses would
7:07
always say, we love coming to your room because you always
7:09
keep getting better. And so yes, even when I'm down,
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I'll still keep getting better. And, and part of it is my
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family. My wife in particular just keeps
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me with that attitude that I'm I'm always going to get better.
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You mind if I steal that phrase and start using it for myself?
7:30
Because I really. I'd be honored.
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OK, so let's get into the canoe business.
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What inspired this back in 1974 to start this canoe rental?
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Well, you have to back up further than that.
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When I grew up, my dad was in the business manager.
7:50
We lived on a a farm. He was chairman of board of the
7:55
church. He was commanding officer in the
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Army Reserve. And so as a young man, I didn't
8:01
see him very much. Once or twice a week late in the
8:05
evenings and I usually got chewed out for something I did
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or did not do. But one week a year our vacation
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was to take a canoe and a tent and go set up camp on the edge
8:17
of a river. Dad like to fish.
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I was the oldest of the four boys and so I learned to paddle
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a canoe and about 8-9 years old and I didn't have lessons.
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I just had, dad didn't want me to beat the paddle on the side
8:33
of the boat. He wanted it quiet.
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And when he wanted to stop, he wanted to stop.
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And so I was doing an Eddy term before I even knew what an Eddy
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was. And, and so I, I learned that at
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a very young age and College in the late 60s, early 70s, it was
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the back to nature ecology movement and going camping and
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canoeing was huge. And I could get a date with
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almost anybody to go camping and canoeing because that's what
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they wanted to do. And so I, I, I, I ended up my
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senior year in college, I actually bought my own canoe,
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although I, I could use dad's canoe anytime I want.
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I actually still have it. And it's one of those things
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where it just became, I was in a, a pre Med biology course and
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I, I just decided that I wanted to do what I wanted to do all
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the time, not just one week a year.
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And so when I got out of college, I went to Graduate
9:40
School, but I put myself through Graduate School renting canoes
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out of my apartment. And then that led to managing a
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a, a business on the Buffalo River that was a canoe business.
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And that led to me starting my own business in 1976.
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So when you were renting canoes out of your apartment, people
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would drive up and what you'd load the canoe put.
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It on most of the time it would be a situation where I would
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meet them at the river. So I would, I had canoes on a
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trailer and I would drive to the river and then we may have
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already done the paperwork or the exchange of money or
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whatever, but I would drive to the river, put the canoe in the
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river for them and then meet them at the end, pick the canoe
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up and take it back home. We did a lot, I did a lot of
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guiding early on. So groups of 810 people.
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So not only was I renting them the canoes, I was also cooking
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for them, setting up camp for them.
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I thought that was the way of life.
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Then I realized that renting canoes was more profitable than
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cooking and setting up camp. And so when did you, I guess,
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officially hang up your shingle? Did you get a place like right
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on the river? We started Buffalo Outdoor.
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This is the Buffalo River, so the the National Park Service,
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it became the Buffalo National River in 1972.
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Then there was a landowner's injunction that stopped it from
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developing until 1976. So for that four years you could
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not buy property on the river quarter mile away, half mile
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away, yes, outside the boundary of the National Park.
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And then in 1979, the canoe rental operations, which were
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all outside the boundary of the National Park, became National
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Park concessioners. And so at that point, we were
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basically told everything and how to do it by people who had
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never done it before. One of those.
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Challenges of that experience, huh?
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Well, it it, it, it toughens you administratively.
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Excuse me, So did you ever get a location right on the river or
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you're still operating? No, we've, we've never had a
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location right on the river. And any operation, any canoe
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business that has their own launch site right next to the
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river, they don't know how lucky they are because since the
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inception of my business, I've had to move a canoe, even if it
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was just a half a mile. You had to take it down to the
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river and put it on the riverbank so that your customer
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can get in and take off. There was no such thing as
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parking their car in the parking lot and saying, OK, we'll walk
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down here to the beach and get in this canoe.
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That didn't happen. And so you're still considered a
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concessioner today simply because?
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We, we're, we're, we do our business outside the park, but
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we are performing a service within the National Park
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boundary. So today, all the canoe rental
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operations on the Buffalo National River are National Park
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concessions. And so back then in the mid 70s,
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when you were first getting started as a concession or what
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were some of the frustrations, What were some of the things
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they were that people who had never done it before were trying
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to tell you to do? Well, they wanted seatbelts for
13:30
every occupant of every vehicle. Have you ever seen a seat belt
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on a school bus? Nope.
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No. And so literally, we were going
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to salvage yards buying seatbelts out of cars because we
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thought the Park Service was going to make us put seatbelts
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inside a school bus. That's a lot of a lot of the
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operations. That's how they transported
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people to and from the river. And certainly I was one of those
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that later on that use school buses.
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We also sell cars. So you drive down to our
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facility and rent a canoe. You drive to the river in your
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vehicle. And then while you're on the
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river paddling down and having fun, we get a driver and a
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pickup driver and we drive your car to the end.
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So when you arrive at the end, there's your automobile and your
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whole world is in that car. And believe me, I've driven
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hundreds and hundreds of cars, and some of them are really nice
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and really neat, and some of them are junky stuff, rattling
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and rolling and drugs and spill beer.
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And I mean just if it. You never know.
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Yeah. I drove a Mercedes one time that
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was brand new, had 400 miles on it and the lady says are you
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going to drive my Mercedes? I said yes ma'am, I am.
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She said, well it's brand new. I said how many miles has got
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on? She said 400, I said it all
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yours and she said yes. I said then I got more miles in
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a Mercedes than you do. Because you driven so many.
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Of them have driven several Mercedes on shuttles so I never
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owned one. You started the business in the
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70s. Were you profitable right away?
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No you know when you're young it doesn't require a whole lot of
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money to exist and and that's basically what led me to
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building cabins at one point is the canoe rental business,
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particularly once the Park Service got involved, became
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much less profitable and in the early years.
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Well, you also have to think about this in 1975 I bought a
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four wheel drive Chevy pickup truck for 3000 to $400.00.
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Now they're 60 seventy, $80,000 for that same truck and the
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canoe reel rates haven't followed that.
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They have gone up of course, but but not to the extent that
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everything else around them has. And then when the Park Service
16:24
came in, we have to pay them a percentage of gross, all
16:28
concessions do. And, and so there was another
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fee layered on top of already taxes and stuff that you had to
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pay the government to start with.
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So it, it didn't take very long into the late 70s, early 80s for
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me to understand that we were no longer going to be able to make
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a living just renting canoes. We had to do.
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First of all, our season was only four months long, March,
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April, May, June. So we didn't have traditional
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vacation season of June, July, August, September.
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Is it just get too hot or why are the other summer months kind
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of off? Limits.
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Well, we're on the very headwaters of the Buffalo River,
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so it's only runnable in the springtime when it's raining.
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When it quits raining, the river gets too low to float and most
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people don't even understand that it It has a lot to do with
17:27
rain, but it has more to do with vegetation.
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If you take a giant oak tree and when it's in full leaves, if you
17:38
wring the water out of those leaves, you would have barrels
17:41
full of water. So once the leaves come out in
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May, early June, the groundwater is absorbed by the canopy of the
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forest, lowering the water table.
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Therefore, the river stops running it.
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It always runs, but it stops running enough high enough to to
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canoe. Gotcha.
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So at some point late 70s, early 80s, you realize we can't be
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profitable long term just running canoes.
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What was the adjustment that you made?
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No, in fact, that's actually when I took the job as a
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director of tourism down in Little Rock because I was not
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making enough money to really provide a great living.
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And plus, you know, we had our first child and, and that leads
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to all new expenses and less time for mom to be a part of the
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business and those those types of scenarios which you know
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people still face today. So you took this job, How long
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were you at the the Director of Tourism role?
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I was there for almost 4 years. That's that's when I actually
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realized that I was sitting on a gold mine.
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I just needed to go mine the gold and that was my building
19:05
cabins. I was AI was a marketer for the
19:09
whole state of Arkansas and the department was the Department of
19:12
Parks, Heritage and Tourism. So parks had a lot of cabins.
19:17
So I had research available to the cabin rates, occupancy and
19:23
what type of profit they would bring and and in private
19:28
industry there were no cabins anywhere close to where I to
19:33
Ponca and yet it was a very popular place.
19:37
And so I I took out an SBA loan and started building cabins and
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the rest is history. How many cabins that you build
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in the 1st? Go round, the first set was 6
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cabins. What kind of money were you able
19:55
to charge per night for those? Oh gosh, back then I think it
19:59
was like $40 a night. OK.
20:03
And here's one of the lessons I learned the my rate at that
20:08
point was too low. I attracted the wrong type of
20:14
visitor. And so once the rates, once I
20:19
moved the rates up high enough, I attracted a higher class of
20:23
visitor and had better profits. Probably fewer incidents and
20:31
fewer repairs necessary at that point too.
20:33
Well exactly. I mean people would just trash
20:39
the cabins. Trash them.
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I've walked into a cabin where you couldn't put your foot on
20:45
the floor without stepping on pizza, beer cans, puke cards,
20:50
dice, and and literally took a scoop shovel to start off the
20:56
cleaning because the maids wouldn't do it.
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They refused to clean the cabin until Oh my gosh, it was that
21:00
time I got there and and so that has happened to me.
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So how many cabins do you have today?
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We have 30 cabins and two lodges.
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Why do you think nobody else had come up with the idea to put
21:15
cabins in that area? Oh, probably it was lack of
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tourism at that particular and, and the early 70s was just
21:27
building in this region. There was an old lodge that that
21:34
had pretty good occupancy and, and, but it was old.
21:37
It was built in the 1930s and had two bathrooms for 7:00
21:44
rooms. So the cabins I just literally
21:50
dreamed of, OK, if I want to take my wife and my child to
21:54
Colorado, what would I like to stay in?
21:57
A log cabin with a fireplace, a nice little kitchen, maybe a hot
22:02
tub, porch swing. And that's what I built.
22:07
I designed them myself. I mean, literally just took out
22:10
a piece of paper and drew out a floor pan.
22:14
And when I went to the bank the very first time, I'd like to
22:17
been a fly on the on the boardroom wall because I, I was
22:23
getting an SBA loan, but SBA was putting pressure on the bank to
22:27
loan money. Otherwise I don't think they'd
22:30
loan me the money. And, and the money came three or
22:34
four months after it was supposed to.
22:37
Unfortunately, it was during canoe season.
22:39
So I used the cash and I was normally saving for winter to
22:45
get through canoe season and I was buying out a couple of other
22:51
businesses and building cabins and that kind of stuff.
22:54
And all that started before the SBA money came along.
22:59
Paperwork was about an inch and a quarter thick, which is about
23:03
equal to what it would be today, but this was 1972.
23:08
So paint a picture for us today, Mike, what services that you
23:13
offer at the Buffalo Outdoor Center?
23:15
We've got canoe rentals, we've got cabins.
23:18
What else? Well canoe rentals have expanded
23:21
into canoe and kayak and then a high water raft rentals.
23:26
Rafts are much safer and higher water than say canoes.
23:32
So we have three different ways of getting down the river.
23:36
The Buffalo has tremendous hiking trails.
23:40
The highest waterfall in middle America is at Hemden Hollow.
23:43
You can access it from the river.
23:45
You can also access it from the trail.
23:47
So it's available year round. The while the canoe season is
23:51
still only March, April, May 1st, part of June.
23:55
The the the trails are there all year.
23:59
We have two lodges that would rent you, you rent the entire
24:05
lodge. One of them sleeps 16, the other
24:07
one sleeps 36. And so we have a lot of family
24:12
reunions, weddings, multiple friends.
24:16
We have some business, you know, marketing teams that kind of
24:20
stuff that want to isolate themselves and and work on
24:23
business. We have a downhill mountain bike
24:28
course which is longer than the longest one in Colorado.
24:35
It drops a little over 6 1/2 miles and drops 1300 feet in
24:41
elevation. We have a zip line canopy tour
24:49
which has 8 zips. Takes about 2 1/2 hours to do
24:54
and boy the screams that come off of that first zip are are
25:00
exciting. You know when you want an
25:02
adventure. The interesting thing is we have
25:06
people that come back over and over again.
25:09
And the one demographic that I did not see was older women, 80s
25:15
and even 90s. They're just out they, they've
25:20
lost their husband, their, their family's grown with kids and all
25:23
that kind of stuff. And they're out enjoying the
25:27
world. And we've done more zip lines
25:30
from for Grandma's than I would have ever imagined.
25:36
I love that. We also have.
25:38
Store. Sponsors We have a large retail
25:41
store and we do, you know, we have all the camping
25:46
accessories. If you forget something or if
25:49
you need something, we have it. We have a lot of souvenirs, so
25:53
T-shirts, hats, stickers, all that kind of stuff.
25:58
We sell used Canoes and kayaks. We have a deli that does
26:05
breakfast burritos and we have the, you know, when I decided we
26:11
were going to get in the deli business, I just said we're
26:13
going to be the best. So we make sandwiches that
26:16
people just rave over because we use the best ingredients, fresh
26:21
bread, that kind of stuff to do it with.
26:24
And we're still currently in a dry county, so we cannot sell
26:32
beer, wine. So those type of things you have
26:35
to bring with you. Of course, we sell all kinds of
26:40
drinks as far as soft drinks and vitamin drinks and energy
26:46
drinks. And we also sell things that you
26:51
could make a meal out of. Do you operate any of your own
26:55
campgrounds? We have an RV park.
26:59
The National Park Service has several campgrounds that used to
27:05
be free. Now they're beginning to charge,
27:08
but they charge a nominal fee. You do have to make reservations
27:12
for the National Park campgrounds.
27:16
And then of course, our RV park is the same thing when you see
27:20
it on our website. We have an We have ARV park with
27:24
one of the best views of any RV park anywhere.
27:28
What is the view? What are you seeing?
27:30
Mountain, you're looking, you're up on top of the mountain, so
27:33
you're looking down at the River Valley.
27:35
And early in the morning, you got fog laying in the valley,
27:38
sunrise. And it's a really pretty, it's
27:43
an outstanding view. So I understand that once you
27:46
get, you know, into June, that water's too low to run the
27:50
river. Does that mean tourism pretty
27:52
much dries up or people still drawn to the area for other
27:57
reasons? They're still drawn to the area.
27:58
We once again, you go back to the hiking trails, a trail like
28:02
Lost Valley, which your two kids would just absolutely adore.
28:06
It has a Natural Bridge that you can actually climb right up and
28:09
go through. It has a what's called Cobb
28:12
Cave, which is not really dark. It's just this huge undercut
28:16
bluff and and it's called Cobb Cave because the Indians used it
28:21
as a shelter of 500 to 1012 hundred years ago and when they
28:28
first discovered it had a hundreds of corn cobs in it.
28:33
So it was named Cobb Cave. Then there's another little cave
28:37
that you climb up to and you actually go in with flashlights
28:41
and it has a waterfall inside The Cave.
28:44
And so once again, a a lot of kids, that's their first true
28:49
underground cave experience ever and they love it.
28:55
Now I have to ask for my youngest son.
28:57
Are there any bats in these caves?
28:58
There can be a a brown eastern PIP Australian, which is a
29:03
little brown bat, but maybe you might see two or three or four
29:07
of them in in the in The Cave and they're they're harmless.
29:13
They're very common and but it's.
29:18
A worry about. A great a great opportunity to
29:21
educate and to view in in in real time.
29:26
Yeah. It seems like as you've gone
29:30
along over the decades with this business, Mike, that you've had
29:33
a pretty good pulse on what customers want, you know,
29:38
started out with canoes and the cabins.
29:40
You've expanded into the zip lines and, you know, RV park.
29:44
What what's next? What are some projects that
29:47
you've got in mind or are already under works?
29:50
You know, I wish I could answer that question.
29:54
Let me back up because here's how we have developed Buffalo
29:57
Outdoor Center. We asked our customers what do
30:01
you want? And when we first started with
30:05
cabins, we built little family cabins.
30:07
Well, it became obvious really quick that some of our customers
30:10
would like just a honeymoon cabin for two people.
30:13
And so we built, we now have six of those.
30:17
Then it became obvious from listen to them that they wanted
30:20
a meeting place, a place where they could gather.
30:23
So we built our first lodge and has a large meeting space and a
30:28
kitchen that has like 2 dishwashers and two ovens and
30:33
built for multiple, you know, 60 people can have dinner there.
30:38
And, and so we listen to our customers and, and that is the,
30:43
the, the key to our development and my opinion is, is by
30:47
literally asking our customers, what do you want?
30:51
And we're not a place that's going to put up a Ferris wheel
30:55
or a water ride or something like that.
30:59
We're, we're connecting people to the outdoors.
31:02
And when you stay in one of our cabins, most of the time when
31:06
you sit on the front porch, the only thing you can see is the
31:11
Ozark Mountains because we aligned our cabins not side by
31:16
side, but at a distance where you don't know the other cabin
31:21
is there. You may know it's there, but
31:24
it's never going to interrupt anything that you're doing at
31:27
your cabin. And, and so we're connecting
31:31
people to the outdoors. That's huge part of our success.
31:35
What was the most recent thing that you heard customers asking
31:38
for that you guys implemented? Well, it was the mountain bike,
31:42
downhill mountain bike course. And you know, the, the Walton
31:48
brothers, Sam Walton's grandkids are very much in the mountain
31:53
biking and they had huge influence and, and financial
31:57
support for the mountain bike trail that we, the downhill
32:02
mountain bike trail that we built.
32:04
And it's free. There's no cost to it other than
32:09
when you get to the bottom, if we provide a shuttle service
32:12
back to the top, including your bike and, and you can buy a
32:16
ticket for the day and go as many times as you want, or you
32:20
can just pay for one ride back up.
32:22
And some people actually come with two vehicles and they've
32:25
got bike racks and all that kind of stuff, and they'll do their
32:28
own shuttle, but the trail itself is free.
32:30
Wow, that's tremendous. And it's a part of the it's a
32:34
part of the Ozark Mountain Trail bike trail network, and there
32:40
are a lot of them. So what's something customers
32:44
are asking for now? Well, I wish once again when we
32:47
ask that questions, we'll get answers that are not realistic
32:52
for us. And you know, we, we continue to
32:58
ask the question. So give me an example of
33:02
something unrealistic that you've heard asked for.
33:04
Ice skating rink. Yeah, in Arkansas outdoors,
33:11
right? Yeah.
33:13
Yeah, well, it gets cold there in the winter.
33:15
Oh, it's cold now. But but you know, I actually
33:20
learned to snow ski at a snow ski resort in Arkansas about 20
33:25
miles from here. But it didn't last very long.
33:28
It it, it made snow. But in Arkansas, if it's 20°
33:33
today, tomorrow it may be 50. And and in winter time, even
33:39
when it gets to blow 0 for a day or two and freezing for three or
33:44
four days a week later it may be 60°.
33:48
Are people still coming in the winter?
33:50
Oh yeah, we have a a strong winter business.
33:53
And the interesting thing is we have our second quarter is our
33:58
peak quarter at 47%, but all the rest of the the first quarter,
34:06
third quarter and fourth quarter are all equal at 16%.
34:11
So we spread our, our business out throughout the year, the
34:15
holiday season, Christmas through New Year's.
34:19
This time of the year, it's Valentine's Day is coming up.
34:23
We do a lot of romantic cabin rentals.
34:28
In fact, I, I couldn't even tell you I, I don't know.
34:31
We have three people on staff that can actually perform
34:35
marriages. And so we've, we've, we've
34:37
performed hundreds of marriages at Buffalo Outdoor Center, but
34:43
we also have no idea how many engagements have happened here.
34:48
And so you know you want a unique outdoor private setting,
34:56
We've got it. Love is in the air there.
35:00
It certainly can be. Yeah.
35:03
So you guys received a Buffalo Outdoor Center, You received a
35:07
TripAdvisor Traveler's Choice Award, which is kind of a big
35:10
deal. What do you think led to that?
35:14
Well, when you look at my development philosophy, it it
35:23
beckons that type of award. And here's what it is.
35:27
I want to compete at the top, not the bottom.
35:32
And so while my prices may be higher than others, I'm
35:38
competing at the top and I'm providing the top amenities, the
35:42
top cleanliness, the top facilities, the the top
35:48
equipment. And, and that's been my
35:52
development philosophy since day one.
35:56
And and that brings on awards and and recognition.
36:04
I have a story. I was, I have an airplane and I
36:07
was flying down to Big Bend one time.
36:09
I stopped in San Jose, TX for fuel for the airplane.
36:13
The guy that came out that waves your arms and then crosses them
36:17
when you need to stop and that kind of stuff comes out and does
36:21
his thing. And I get out of the airplane
36:23
and I've got on a hat that says Buffalo Outdoor Center on it.
36:27
And this young man looks at that hat and says, boy, I wish I was
36:30
there right now. I love BOC.
36:33
I'm in San Angelo, TX and the guy waving my airplane in has
36:38
been to my business. That's that was a why that was
36:45
an eye opening day. I realized that the business
36:49
that I founded had become much more than just a local state
36:55
business. It was a regional business that
36:57
was iconic and it was all because I wanted to compete at
37:02
the top. So your prices are a little bit
37:06
higher, but so is the quality, so is the customer experience.
37:09
Sure. I mean, go to our website versus
37:12
any other website that that's just a a classic example of, of
37:17
information and and stuff that we provide that most others
37:21
don't. It's a beautiful website
37:24
yeahbuffaloriver.com for folks. Buffaloriver.com, you know, I
37:28
was, I was really lucky when I got that website.
37:31
I, this was back in 1996, there were 350,000 people on the
37:38
Internet and I knew I need to, I had a great mentor that told me
37:42
I needed to be on the Internet. So I went to this Internet guru
37:46
and, and a nearby town and, and he said, oh, you won't need your
37:50
own domain. They'll, they'll, they're all
37:53
going to be these big AO LS and, and that kind of stuff.
37:56
And, and I said, well, OK, how much did one of these things
37:59
cost? And he said $20.
38:02
And I said, well, is Buffalo River available?
38:07
And he types a little bit. And he said, well, yeah.
38:09
And I said, you know, I think I'm just going to gamble.
38:12
I'll take buffaloriver.com for $20.
38:16
Now. I was lucky if I'd have been
38:18
really smart, really smart and 1996, I could have ford.com,
38:25
chevy.com, bankamerica.com, arkansas.com.
38:31
I could have had if I'd have spent $200, I'd have been a
38:34
millionaire. But.
38:36
Yeah, reselling those domains later on.
38:38
But I was lucky, not smart, and I was smart enough to get
38:43
buffaloriver.com. Buffaloriver.com Well, you know
38:47
Mike, behind every success story there's usually a chapter in
38:51
life that almost broke someone. Can you share a serious
38:54
challenge that you've gone through, personal or
38:56
professional? You know, we founded the
39:03
business in 1976. We borrowed as much money as my
39:07
credit would allow me to buy pickup trucks and canoes and
39:10
that kind of stuff. And we went through our first
39:14
season and made the payment. And then I was having to do any
39:19
kind of job I could just to provide food.
39:25
And Christmas of 1977, I could not buy my wife a Christmas
39:31
present because I did not have $10.
39:35
And I probably gave her the best Christmas present that I have
39:39
ever given her, a handmade, a coupon book.
39:44
And it was for a, a coupon for doing the dishes, a coupon for a
39:49
back massage, a coupon for taking out the trash, a coupon
39:54
for cooking dinner, and on and on and on.
39:59
And when I look back now, I didn't have $10.00, but I gave
40:04
her $1,000,000 coupon book. So if you find yourself in that
40:10
situation, use your imagination. Use your creativeness and once
40:20
again as I look back that simple construction paper coupon book I
40:28
wish I still had it was probably the greatest gift I ever gave my
40:33
wife. Did you feel like that in the
40:35
moment? No, I, I don't think so.
40:40
I, I think I was grasping for straws at the moment.
40:46
It was the best I could do with nothing.
40:51
And there have been plenty of other challenges financially.
40:55
There was a time when I looked at going, trying to go with a
41:00
limited partnership or something, then get investors to
41:03
invest. And fortunately, I went to
41:06
college with several friends that are lawyers and I went to
41:12
one of those and he drew up papers for me and never charged
41:17
me anything. But I never sold a single share
41:19
either. Well, I, I, I think at the time
41:24
it was a desperation move. And when I made it through to
41:29
the next canoe season, it was a really good year and I didn't
41:35
need a partner. And then that was very close to
41:40
the time where I became tourism director and spent four years in
41:45
Little Rock and and then started building cabins.
41:48
And when I built cabins it changed.
41:51
We were a four month seasonal business.
41:54
By adding cabins, we became a year round resort.
41:58
And maybe in December we didn't make enough money but to pay the
42:01
electric bill. But the year before we didn't
42:05
make enough money to pay the electric bill and so you had to
42:09
have saved it. And in 1978 I promised myself,
42:13
after not being able to give my wife a Christmas present, that I
42:18
would rat hole enough money for Christmas and never touch it
42:22
until Christmas. And I have done that for almost
42:26
50 years now. What did you get her this past
42:30
year for Christmas? Let's see, it was a gift from
42:43
Tiffany's. OK.
42:46
And having said that alone tells you that it was a very nice
42:50
gift. Maybe not as nice as the coupon
42:53
book, but a close second perhaps.
42:56
It Yeah. I want to go back to some of
43:02
these financial struggles because almost everybody who has
43:05
ever started a business has been through this.
43:09
The gut wrenching, how am I going to, you know, in some
43:13
cases it's how am I going to make payroll?
43:15
In some cases, it's how am I going to pay the electric bill?
43:17
How, how am I going to, you know, go and buy groceries
43:19
today? You know, looking back, you've
43:23
got a pretty healthy perspective on it.
43:25
Going through the dark tunnel though is often times a
43:29
different matter. How were you coping in those
43:33
day-to-day moments? What got you through them?
43:36
You know, I go back to college and really I go back to my dad.
43:43
When I was 10 years old, dad took me to the bank and we
43:47
borrowed $100 to buy a calf, a cow.
43:51
We I grew up on a farm. And then one week at a time, $10
43:56
a week, I paid that $100 off. And Dad was actually teaching me
44:01
financial responsibility. He also taught me that I was the
44:05
customer, that the bank, when they have the right kind of
44:10
collateral, has no reason to say no.
44:13
And it's not something that you need to be afraid of or you
44:19
should be confident going to the bank as long as you understand
44:23
how you can make the payment, you can.
44:26
The, the, The funny thing is, I remember I told you about the
44:29
SBA loan that was for $125,000 and I built 6 cabins with that
44:36
$125,000. Now if I walked into the bank
44:39
and said I need to borrow $5,000,000, they'd start doing
44:42
the paperwork. They wouldn't even ask me what
44:44
it was for. They just, you know, And so
44:47
credit is one of those things where as a young person you need
44:51
to borrow some money, even if it's just a small amount, and
44:56
pay it back so that you establish #1 good credit #2
45:01
always pay it back. Figure when you borrow the
45:04
money, even if it's going to cost you a little bit.
45:08
I remember a trick that the banks sometimes use to get
45:12
people credit. They, they loan them $1000.
45:15
They buy $1000 CD with it. So the bank still has the money
45:21
in the end, 90 days later you cash the CD and pay off the loan
45:25
and now you have credit. What it cost you was the
45:28
percentage between what the CD rate was and what the interest
45:32
rate was. So you may have paid 3% or
45:35
something like that 4% on that $1000 for 90 days.
45:39
But now you have good credit and, and so that's what has save
45:46
me many times as I've had good credit.
45:49
I've also learned some tricks. Back in the days when you were
45:52
buying a a pickup truck, if you if you traded in a pickup truck
45:59
and the and the GMAC would loan you maximum amount on the new
46:04
one, they would give you a check for $10,000.
46:10
So in December, I'd go buy a new pickup truck.
46:14
I'd trade in my old one, I would Max out the loan from GMAC on
46:21
the new one, and they'd give me a $10,000 check.
46:25
That would hold me over until spring when the cash flow
46:28
started, and then I'd pay off the truck.
46:32
What other clever tricks do you have like that?
46:39
Well my first 20 years of Social Security I have 4 zeros and 16
46:50
under $2000. I didn't pay myself.
46:57
I think a lot of business owners can relate to that.
46:59
I, I put the money back into the business and that's how the
47:03
business was able to grow as much as it did as quick as it
47:08
did because I didn't, I, I, I only took what I needed to eat
47:15
and back. Remember I said early on we were
47:17
guiding and feeding people. So if I bought, if I had eight
47:21
guys on a on a guided trip and I bought 10 steaks, well, that was
47:26
two extra steaks that the company paid for that I ate.
47:34
You know, it's just one of those things where you got to be
47:37
creative and you got to use whatever, you know, I, I don't
47:43
suggest credit cards. I, I think credit card interest
47:47
rates are too out of out of whack.
47:52
I think that by going to a bank and paying a Bank rate, which
47:59
probably is less than the credit card rate, but you're dealing
48:03
one-on-one with a person. And chances are if you have a
48:10
good relationship with that person, if a a month comes that
48:15
you can't make the payment, you go in and say, look, I haven't
48:18
had the income this month. I could pay you the interest and
48:23
they'll forgive you that payment as long as you give them
48:27
something and then when the cash flow starts, you make up for it.
48:33
And that's how you always keep your credit is you continue to
48:37
pay the bank. Good credit, good relationships.
48:40
Good credit and good relationship, doing what you say
48:43
you'll do. You know, Mike, we've talked a
48:46
lot about how you invest in your facilities.
48:50
Let's talk about how you invest in the team that helps to
48:54
deliver the services. What is your approach to
48:57
attracting and retaining good talent?
49:00
Well, you got to also understand the the town of Ponca, the
49:06
population is 9, so you can hold up four fingers and one hand,
49:13
and that's the population of the town that I live in now.
49:16
I don't live in town. I live outside of town as most
49:20
of my employees do. So I'm drawing from a rule
49:25
county and Arkansas. The the one thing I can say is
49:31
we've always paid a very decent wage, more than a lot of jobs in
49:40
the same county. So we, when we put out a job
49:44
application, we, we get multiple applications for that job that
49:53
allows us to interview and to select the right person.
49:59
And once again, it's very, very quick that we, we always, we're
50:08
competing at the top. Therefore, we're competing at
50:11
the top for the employees. And when an employee doesn't fit
50:16
our environment, it doesn't take them very long.
50:20
And you know, it's funny, in 50 years, I have fired one
50:25
employee. Wow.
50:27
Now I've had conversations with employees that says you're not
50:32
happy here. Why don't you go somewhere that
50:35
will make you happy many times. And you know what, it works.
50:41
They know when they're not happy here that they know when it's
50:45
not right for them. And you, you basically just
50:50
you're, you're not really giving them a choice.
50:52
You're just saying, hey, why don't you take this up on
50:55
yourself and go somewhere that makes you happy and so that.
51:04
Sounds like a much gentler conversation.
51:06
Well, it's it's somebody. Sometimes it takes them a week,
51:10
maybe even 2 weeks, but and it works, you know, I, I mean when
51:18
if somebody just out rise lies to you face to face, got to fire
51:22
them or if they steal from you. But once again, we're hiring
51:26
people that have a, a higher ethical standard than those.
51:32
And so to start with, we just, we just know when somebody
51:36
doesn't fit and we're able to look at that and say, you know,
51:43
why don't you go somewhere else? And they understand that if if
51:48
they don't make their own decision, they're going to get
51:51
fired. So why not go on your own terms?
51:56
Mike, what is your superpower? I just keep getting better
52:06
everyday and I'm infectious with that attitude whenever you have.
52:17
We have very few disappointed customers, but it was always my
52:22
job to go handle that customer. I never sent anybody else and I
52:30
would always tell them I'm your new very best friend because
52:35
here's what we're going to do to solve this problem.
52:38
And sometimes, you know, we get customers where Aunt Flossie
52:46
made the reservations for the family reunion.
52:49
So nephew Johnny, he could be at the Waikiki Beach Hilton and it
52:57
wouldn't be good enough for him because Aunt Flossie made the
52:59
reservations. So we we, we as a team set that
53:08
person aside and we just give him that person Exceptional
53:14
quality service every time they walk in the door.
53:19
Kill them with kindness. And, and many, a vast majority
53:27
of the time by the time they leave, they want to come back.
53:32
In fact, the number one thing that we hear from our own
53:36
customers when they leave is that they don't want to leave,
53:42
they want to stay. And that's the same way when
53:46
we're hiring employees. We have a reputation that people
53:49
like to work here. They're, they're, they, they,
53:53
they, they really want to work for us.
53:57
And it's because of that attitude of that culture.
54:00
And, and the interesting thing is I'm now retired.
54:03
I don't spend every day down at the center, but that we
54:07
developed that culture and the greatest reward I have is to see
54:13
that culture exist even though I'm not there.
54:18
This idea of I just keep getting better.
54:22
Where did that first start? When did you first pick up that
54:27
phrase? You know, I, I honestly don't
54:31
know it, it it's it started because I think during down
54:43
parts of my life, at some particular point, that was
54:47
actually the case. I was down or, and then all of a
54:53
sudden things started getting better.
54:55
And the number one question that you get when you meet somebody,
54:59
a friend or a new person or whatever is how are you, how you
55:02
doing? My standard answer became I just
55:07
keep getting better. And then I explained that you
55:10
have a choice. You can either stay the same,
55:15
you can get worse, or you can get better.
55:19
And I just chose to get better every day.
55:23
So as a father of two young boys, I'm curious, dad to dad,
55:28
have you been able to teach or instill that same kind of
55:31
mindset in your children? You know, I've had I, I, I think
55:38
the answer to that is yes. I didn't teach it to them.
55:41
I just showed them how they've seen me in, you know, we're,
55:47
we're family. We're a family business.
55:49
My kids have worked at the business, my wife has worked at
55:52
the business. Rhonda still handles our social
56:00
media and, and, and our web development, that kind of stuff.
56:05
And so we're still very much engaged in our business.
56:08
But I, I think basically my kids have watched me go through hard
56:13
times and bad times and, and, and, and heard me always say I
56:19
just keep getting better. And I think, I think as a dad,
56:24
best thing you can do is I, I don't think you can teach it to
56:28
him as much as you can show him how to do it.
56:32
Are there times where you've said it and it's clear you just
56:36
don't mean it? Maybe you're trying to trick
56:38
your brain into believing it. No for me recently I've had some
56:47
surgeries and been in ICU, been on life support and when I woke
56:52
up they asked me how I was and I said I just keep getting better
56:57
and the nurses love me because they they came into a positive
57:01
room every day. That's phenomenal.
57:07
What's something that you really enjoy doing outside of work,
57:09
Mike? Well, currently Rhonda, who's my
57:15
wife, we enjoy petroglyph hunting.
57:20
So petroglyph is Indian artwork on Canyon walls and rocks,
57:26
mostly out West. There are some in Arkansas, but
57:29
not like out in New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Nevada,
57:35
where the, where the ancient Fremont Anasazi cultures
57:41
existed. And, you know, we, we, it
57:47
involves a hike. And that hike might be a few 100
57:51
yards or maybe 8 or 10 miles. It involves a treasure hunt
57:58
because you don't know where it's at.
58:00
You may have been given good directions.
58:02
You may not have any directions, but you're on a search.
58:06
And then when you find it, you take pictures.
58:10
And the reward is standing there wondering when the last human
58:16
being touched that wall with a rock and a rock chisel or an
58:21
antler. It's it's not necessarily when
58:24
the last human being was there. And and then you find something.
58:30
My favorite petroglyph is a Saber toothed cat.
58:36
And it's, it's about the size of a large computer screen.
58:39
So it's only three or four feet long and a couple of feet tall.
58:44
But when did Saber toothed cats disappear from Earth?
58:49
10,000 years ago you know that the guy that pecked this
58:54
petroglyph had to have seen one. So somewhere beyond 10,000 years
59:00
ago there was a human standing there with a rock and a antler
59:06
or some sort of chisel pecking out an image of a Saber toothed
59:12
cat. Our our minds have a hard time
59:17
even comprehending that. And that, for me, is just pure
59:22
fascination. And So what do you call this?
59:25
Petroglyph hunting. Petroglyph, PETROGLYPH,
59:31
petroglyph. And then in the same artwork you
59:33
find pictographs. Petroglyphs are where they Peck
59:37
it into the rock. Pictographs are when they paint
59:40
it on the rock. So they use some sort of flour
59:43
or, or powder or whatever made a paste out of it and made a paint
59:47
out of it and then painted it on there and, and usually the
59:51
pictographs are actually older than the petroglyphs and out
59:56
with there's. How do they not like wear away?
59:59
Well, first of all, it's the climate.
1:00:01
You're in a desert climate. Second, while most of them are
1:00:06
under an under. Overhanging Bluffs so they're
1:00:09
under on a on a place that never gets water on them.
1:00:13
To get some cover. And once again, it's a, it's a,
1:00:18
it's a, it's a great hobby because it's so intriguing.
1:00:23
I have seen thousands and thousands of petroglyphs and
1:00:27
it's just it, it's very, very intriguing.
1:00:30
The other part is a lot of a lot of these are next two rivers.
1:00:35
I'm a river guy, so I love going and floating out West River and
1:00:40
finding petroglyphs. And, and, and you learn real
1:00:44
quick that at the, at the forks of rivers or of a fork of a
1:00:49
Creek and a Washington or the fork of a Creek and a small
1:00:53
stream, that's where a lot of the petroglyph sites are.
1:00:57
And so then you start hunting on your own.
1:00:59
You know, there there are plenty of ways of finding petroglyphs
1:01:04
and you can find GPS coordinates and what they look like and all
1:01:08
kind of stuff. I prefer the method of just
1:01:12
going and hunting for them and then the reward is finding them.
1:01:16
The old fashioned Explorer. Hey Mike, I've just got one more
1:01:19
question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to
1:01:22
do three things. First of all, anybody who wants
1:01:24
to get in touch with Mike or the business, go ahead and hold up
1:01:27
your sign, Mike. buffaloriver.com.
1:01:31
We talked about the domain name. Domain name, how he got it back
1:01:34
in 1996. buffaloriver.com. Easy, remember, easy to spell.
1:01:40
And folks, if you're enjoying the show today, a quick comment
1:01:42
or review on your favorite podcast app goes a long way
1:01:46
towards helping others discover the show.
1:01:48
So thank you for taking a quick moment to do that right now.
1:01:52
And as a reminder, if you want to get more tourism employees,
1:01:55
access to therapists, doctors and prescription meds that, as
1:01:59
paradoxical as it sounds, actually increases the company's
1:02:02
net profits, reach out to us at adbackbenefits.com.
1:02:07
So last question, Mike, a year from now, what is 1 specific
1:02:11
specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?
1:02:15
Another birthday, you know, at my age, you begin to understand
1:02:23
that you, you don't have as much life in front of you.
1:02:27
I hope I have another 20 years, but you don't have as much life
1:02:31
in front of you as did when you started your business.
1:02:35
And, and so you you cherish every moment with your kids,
1:02:40
with your grandkids. And I just hope that that
1:02:45
continues. Having been in the situations
1:02:49
I've been in in the last few years, I'm thankful that I'm now
1:02:54
healthy and happy and just keep getting better.
1:03:01
Mike Mills from Buffalo Outdoor Center, I want to be the first
1:03:04
to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us
1:03:07
today. I really appreciate you.
1:03:09
It's my honor, I promise you. Folks, that's a wrap on another
1:03:13
episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
1:03:16
Thanks for learning with us today.