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Transcript

Can Christians Watch Horror? · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_05]: But as I'm not for me, we're gonna add the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church, and by the local church, and we are your local churchmen.
0:43
[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Josh, and I'm here as always with the captain, Jack Barry Jack.
0:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It is good to be with you, my friend.
0:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy Reformation Month.
0:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
0:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You got some smooth jazz kind of voice to you right now.
0:56
[SPEAKER_03]: You got like an empty heart kind of voice, Josh.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all things considered with town cooking.
1:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have in cocaine as a last name is that's the man is you only have a couple you only have a couple routes that you can go in life with that kind of last name for sure.
1:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, but Jack it's it's good to be with you good to be doing some radio with you it's been a very strangely sunny October it has I'm not complaining actually got out golfing yesterday, wow, which I was sunny golfing in October.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, you would have told me.
1:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, it's, it's good not to believe in that.
1:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good not to believe in that in the Northwest.
1:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, getting into all kinds of, of, of trouble over on the socials.
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, just having fun.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a kid having the time of my life over there.
1:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, uh, just, uh, just, uh, just, uh, just, just some light mockery.
1:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Of, that's what, require some light mockery.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Got you.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He got to.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's so well.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: right um but uh yeah no all all all fun over on the over on the Twitter but jack man we got man we got stuff to talk about you got good stuff talk about you know there's there's nothing there's nothing that gets my eyeer up more like grinds my gears more you know it grinds my gears I and look I understand this is probably a fault of mine
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, like I'm self aware to know that I probably, this probably bugs me more than it should, right, I'm working on it.
2:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are a few things that get, get, get my, get my feathers all ruffled if you will, more than when someone tells me what to do, without having either the authority
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: or the biblical reasoning to do so.
3:06
[SPEAKER_02]: If you lack one or in a lot of cases, both of those things, and you tell me, I need to do something, I need to be a certain way, I need to believe a certain thing, I need to address a certain way, and you don't have scriptural proof
3:29
[SPEAKER_02]: it gets under my skin.
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, it gets under my skin a little bit, Jack.
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I take chapter 21 of our confession very seriously.
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
3:36
[SPEAKER_02]: As I think we should as particular Baptist.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And when people, you know, the vet, here's the thing, the opposite's also true, right?
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I like to think I'm pretty consistent.
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You come to me and says, hey, you're out of step.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And you pull up the word of God, the authoritative and errands word of God, and you show me, hey, brother.
3:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We're out of step here.
4:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, yeah, you're right.
4:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to get to step in, get back in the step.
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, we're going to talk about that today, but before we do, that's just a little teaser.
4:11
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just a little, that's just a little apetister.
4:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the, that's the, that's the, you can see me now, teaser was like, why would I deceive you?
4:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would I, why would I, why would I just like, a guy is just like, a guy is just like,
4:23
[SPEAKER_03]: floor on the floor like looking at her like what is going on with my life?
4:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
4:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
4:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
4:31
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just that's just a preface.
4:32
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just a preface.
4:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we do that, Jackie is time for everyone's favorite segment.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget to eat your Instagrams.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of the time you have no winning for it.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams with your host, Josh Loftus, or Jack Mary.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, kids, it's not heresy if you're believable, hard enough.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Don't forget to eat your instant grams with Tom Cocaine.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember kids, it's not heresy if you believe it hard enough.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how it works these days.
5:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack in honor of Apparently I was made I was made aware today.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not partake in this particular form of entertainment, but I was told
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[SPEAKER_02]: today by a reliable source that apparently dancing with the stars is all the rage right now.
5:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
5:23
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
5:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, especially Julia Styles.
5:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Julia Styles used to be on, like, OK. She was a very famous actor.
5:32
[SPEAKER_03]: She actually played in the movie 10 Things I Hate About You, where my wedding photos were taken with my wife as the Hogwarts of the Northwest in Tacoma, Washington.
5:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So with the great Heath Ledger.
5:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
5:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That was his first American movie, by the way.
5:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
5:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Did not know that.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you already know more about dancing with stars than I do, but in honor of that, Jack.
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how this worked out, but both of our Instagrams today are on theme.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They are on theme for dancing with the stars.
6:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, you walk into a local church.
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, everyone expresses themselves a little differently during worship.
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: right we know that's true some people some people like to you know you know get the hands up a little bit maybe maybe like kind of move around a little bit if you're particular Baptist like us uh you like the joy of the Lord uh to be and way down down down down down down your heart like hinge yeah yeah yeah not not like not like these folks that I'm about to play for you right now
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, there you go.
7:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, I don't know, but all this reminds me of is Bill Hader, where he's like, this club is called ClubSkunk.
7:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all the rage.
7:29
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what's going on in ClubSkunk.
7:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
7:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
7:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
7:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, that's a good reference.
7:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's everything.
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's everything.
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So ballet dancers, people jirating their bodies like the club, every.
7:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
7:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 100%, so yeah, our audio only listeners, that was a man using the term loosely there.
8:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Strutting his stuff, some ballet dancing in the front while music is playing, using his gifting for the Lord as he puts it.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, definitely going to want to
8:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one thing when the congregation is all about that, right?
8:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one thing when the congregation decides to utilize their talents for the Lord.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's another thing altogether.
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: When the service comes to a halt because the pastor wants to strut his stuff.
8:35
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Bring it back for the dooms.
8:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And as you can see, I'm not your average master.
9:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I go by the name of Prophet Francis McKinley.
9:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Also known as the Prophet Master, because I preach, I pop in a proper size.
9:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And I do all three very well.
9:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And you never know which one I go pop out and show you.
9:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh!
9:16
[SPEAKER_04]: What?!
9:17
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a good joke!
9:19
[SPEAKER_03]: A good joke, guys.
9:21
[SPEAKER_03]: What is that pastor doing?
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, unbelievable.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the pop and pastor.
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You never know what he's going to pop out and show you.
9:30
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I don't like that.
9:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like that.
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like that.
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I preach in, I prophesy.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to say the band was on point.
9:40
[SPEAKER_02]: The band, the band knew their march.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You can tell they work, they rehearse that.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they, they worked on that until they got it down perfect.
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yeah, he just stopped.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: He just started to start it.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it called, is it called pop locking?
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I think pop and lock or something.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that's it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just right in the middle service.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right in the middle service, Jack.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was the instant Graham slating gentleman hope that you enjoy that now on to the main of that Jack my friend as I said at the beginning.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: There are, there are, there are a few things that will, uh, we'll get my feathers ruffled.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And it'll get a, get it, get that'll raise my eye or get a rise out of me, uh, a few things to do that more than someone attempting to bind to the conscience in a way, uh, that scripture does not.
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are many people that attempt to do this in one way or another.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the effects of that, I think, are seen kind of, you know, far and wide throughout the church as we have people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: calling things sin that scripture does not.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: All this is very fresh in my mind right now, because we just began at our local church, a new small group that I'm running at our house called Matters of the Conscience.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Why we have it, how it's informed, what the purpose of the conscience is, and then to utilize that correct understanding, to give us some context for understanding what constitutes a conscience issue and what does not.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're actually going to go into practical applications of that as a group, talking about some real life conscience issues that we run into every single day in the local church.
12:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And how do we work through these as men and women that are unified together in church membership?
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[SPEAKER_02]: But might not agree in the applications of the principles that Scripture gives, right?
12:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be very clear before we start this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This episode is pertaining specifically to matters of the conscience.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is not something that we are, that we are, you know,
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[SPEAKER_02]: saying that Scripture does not speak clearly or definitively on some things, absolutely it does.
12:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Scripture is very clear on what it calls sin and what it calls destructive behavior and we as Christians must have hold that and apply that to our lives.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even saying that Scripture does not provide principles to every
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[SPEAKER_02]: in our lives.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely it does.
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I would put it like this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that scripture speaks into everything that we go through in our life.
13:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do not believe it speaks to everything that we out through in our lives.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's two different things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So in matters
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[SPEAKER_02]: that we must as Christians utilize to dictate how we go about engaging in those particular issues, right?
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of factors that go into that.
13:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's going to be different for every Christian because every Christian is an individual made in God's image that has a different conscience, but our consciences need to be rooted and informed not by opinion, not by culture, not by upbringing, but by the word of God.
13:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
13:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of that as a preamble.
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: believe all of that is true, celebrate that is true, teach that is true, but it seems as if there are certain topics, Jack, where, in one instance, someone would say, yes, in a men to that, absolutely.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it gets to a topic that I believe is pretty clearly
14:28
[SPEAKER_02]: or that understanding of those things.
14:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of goes out the window.
14:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And we begin to put law.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We're scripture gives freedom, right?
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're gonna watch a little video here that has been making its rounds.
14:45
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a video by a very popular podcaster Ali Beth.
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you say your last name?
14:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Ducky, I think.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Stucky.
14:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, stuckies a little stick in the mud is what she's stuck in the mud.
14:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to say it.
15:00
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
15:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure this like I don't I don't engage with Ali Beth.
15:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard good things.
15:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently she's you know a Calvinist like political commentators.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: She's out there.
15:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You know.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm sure she has some great takes.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure she has doing some great work.
15:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not one of them.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion.
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't one of them, I think this is an example of how our presuppositions, perhaps our upbringing, perhaps our experiences, can influence the way that we interpret scripture and then apply scripture in a way that is not consistent with the, you know, normally with the other theology that we would agree with.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jack, we're going to play this video.
15:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to kind of use this as the template for our
15:48
[SPEAKER_02]: our episode today, and we're going to dive into matters of the conscience as it pertains to horror, Halloween's the spookiness, the spooky season jack, all right?
16:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think it is at all an option for Christians now, only fully participate in Halloween and all of its darkness and scaring us.
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So right there I want to pause right there like I'm already this is this is a characteristic this is going to be this is going to be like me working through this jack.
16:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously hop in a whenever like do not feel do not be afraid.
16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Or or or or or or hesitant to cut me off because I'm just going to like.
16:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, somebody put a quarter in me.
16:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what fully participate means in this context.
16:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like, again, this is like, it seems like there is throughout this video, you're going to see subjective application.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So already we're starting off on a subjective footing here where she says, I don't believe it's right for Christians to fully participate in Halloween.
17:02
[SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to partially participate and if so, like where is the line there?
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like where do we draw the line between partially participating and fully participating?
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
17:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So automatic, like already we're having some issues, I think,
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: we're already starting off with terms and a standard that I would say is pretty ambiguous.
17:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just, I don't, I don't get it to be quite honest.
17:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I guess the biggest thing is just, what,
17:45
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean by all of this?
17:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what do you mean by Halloween?
17:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Because Halloween has its roots in Christian history.
17:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It was technically all, all Hallows Eve, but it was all Saint's Day.
17:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So all Hallows Eve was before all Saint's Day.
18:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So if we're talking about Halloween in a church history context,
18:07
[SPEAKER_03]: There is precedent for quote unquote like Halloween, but not as we know it today, as we know it throughout church history and a certain dynamic.
18:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, at all an option, are you talking about, this is the typical, do we participate in the, the, the worship of demons?
18:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you worshiping, are you consciously worshiping demons?
18:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you consciously doing these things?
18:32
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're
18:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, this is back to the Satanic panic, this is back to, does this day constitute a day of death and evil and destruction?
18:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, sometimes kids just dress up in costumes and ask for candy.
18:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that, is that destructive?
18:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that demonic?
18:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that is.
18:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, and it's one of those things where I think, again, this is a conscience issue.
18:59
[SPEAKER_02]: There are some parents that do not want to engage in this holiday.
19:03
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want kids being exposed, you know, things that are scary or things that that have, you know, a certain, you know, a certain horror aesthetic to them.
19:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's totally fine.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I like I fully
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And right to raise their children in the way that they see fit as long obviously as it is being done under the authority of the word of God and not in violation of it and this is one of those one of those things where I believe that there is freedom to be had and and to be given.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: When as it pertains to the things that parents want their kids exposed to I totally understand but again like that's that's that's that's part of the issue here is that.
19:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm willing to say that, right, and I'm willing to say like, yeah, if it is your conviction and your choice to not expose your kids to this, to not engage in this, that is absolutely your right.
20:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a matter of conscience that I, even though I might disagree, or I would apply that differently, I will support you in as a Christian brother, right?
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, we're starting off already on subjective terms here because again, I don't know what fully participate means.
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what personally I don't know.
20:23
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that even mean?
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So like obviously Ali has some sort of line in her head as to like what what she would become from a with or maybe is a gray area to what she's not.
20:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is one of the main issues
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: and argumentation like this when you're trying to make a law where scripture does not is that automatically.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: you become the law giver, you become the brahmeter of what keeping that law looks like.
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think she's trying to do that, but my point is that is what theologically and practically happens when we engage in, frankly, what I believe theologically is called legalism.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: right when we are creating or or perhaps perhaps maybe even more specifically a ferricism where we have the principle right and we're in order to not get close to that principle we're going to create fences around the principle so that we don't even get close and what ends up happening is the more fences you
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: build, the more you are going to infringe upon the consciences of people that would apply that principle differently than you, right?
21:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, those are just the initial thoughts.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's hop in and continue here.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: just not only fully participate in Halloween and all of its darkness and scaring us, but I also just don't think that Christians should be a fan of horror in general.
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't think you should be reading books that make you scared.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that you should be listening to true crime podcasts that make you scared.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's a good thing.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we've we've we've crossed we've crossed a couple borders here.
22:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we crossed three rivers by the time we we flew over like three different states.
22:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, so yeah, it started out with Halloween, right.
22:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, a subjective understanding of Halloween, then we went into horror in general.
22:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So here here's another fence, right, right, here's another sphere.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we completely left the genre and went to True Crime, which is, which is, it's not a mystery, yeah, drum and mystery, like what?
22:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I want to be very clear here because this is always what happens when we have conversations like this is people assume motives and take it to the farthest, if you don't want to watch or listen to True Crime,
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: horror movies.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That's totally fine.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: If I would even go so far to say if true crime bothers you and it gives you anxiety and it causes your mind to to to sit and to dwell in an
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: my advice to you, my counsel to you would be you should not engage in that.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not good for you.
23:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be wrong for you to do that.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would I would come alongside you and support you in that and help hold you accountable in that.
23:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not what Ali is saying here.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is why we're taking time to talk about this because what she is saying is that she does not believe that a Christian across the board has any business engaging with, again, we've we flew over a couple a couple states here, Halloween.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: right which is it's which isn't even which isn't even horror right yeah we see the progression that you have to logically take.
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: in these types of situations where Ali, again, I don't think she's probably trying to, but what's practically happening is she is creating her own law and her own definition of what falls under the category of horror or things that Christian shouldn't engage with, right?
24:54
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is like, this is just the playbook, right?
24:59
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how it works, right?
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have to be very careful not to do this because as we're going to see later, there's no real scriptural backing to give this scriptural backing is attempted, but it's, but it's, it's, it's very, very, very leaky.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so let's continue here.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that you should be listening to true crime podcasts that make you scared.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you should be listening or watching movies that make you scared.
25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have, like, I'm to, I've seen Rosemary's baby.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've seen the, really scary movies.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
25:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So, wow.
25:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, like, excuse me?
25:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what, yeah.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, again, I want to be I want to be I want to be gracious to a sister in Christ right it's a very it's a very quaint example, all right, you know, it's like it's like this this again, like I'm speaking from experience because this is 100% me it's like when you have a home schooler who like has, you know, his, he's like, hey, I learned to cuss word the other day.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what was it?
26:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, fiddle sticks.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, you know, like, oh, okay, buddy.
26:12
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, thank you for there.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Rosemary's new baby is an example.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
26:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I just, I fight, I just find that.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Her examples.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: uh humor me.
26:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll just say this, not to offend the boomers, but I'm just going to say it boomers, that was a very boomeristic kind of answer to be quite.
26:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, listen, if you if you want to go a little bit more advanced tour like the new it movie, like I saw that in theaters, I wanted to see it because I heard that it was really good.
26:49
[SPEAKER_03]: There was aspects of it that I didn't like.
26:51
[SPEAKER_03]: but there's other aspects that were redemptive.
26:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So I will say that is just my piece.
26:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so, and I think, too, like, am I then open to being disciplined by my church by seeing that movie?
27:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I did, I violate anything of what the Christian life demands of me, but also of what my covenant with my local church says and has of me as well, too.
27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I did.
27:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, are there images?
27:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I'm going into a movie that I don't know the complete content of that movie.
27:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, yeah, there could be some stuff like if he go into our movie,
27:32
[SPEAKER_03]: you're going to know in our movie like okay sure you're going to have to base some wisdom there on what you are going to like look at maybe or what you're going to be subjected to like for example i watched this last week digger digger is rated r but there is no nudity
27:49
[SPEAKER_03]: in it.
27:49
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no kind of like, there's a lot of crassness, but there's no nudity in it.
27:54
[SPEAKER_03]: That's about it.
27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So do I exercise judgment in that?
27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I do.
27:58
[SPEAKER_03]: But am I now an Athema ties by my local church?
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I am.
28:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, I agree, man.
28:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, this is the problem that you run into when you say, you know, I don't think Christians should do this.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not a Christian thing, okay?
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what a lot of people do, I think they have the intention of wanting to, you know, wanting to provide some principles, but I don't think they realize the theological implications that we should
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: follow if we were to hold your opinion, right?
28:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a difference between saying, for me, this is not good in here's why versus
28:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think this is a Christian thing to do because one of those falls under the realm of conscience that is between you and the Lord.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The other falls into a realm to where.
28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So what you are saying, again, let's, let's, let's be consistent is that if a, you're saying, if Christians engage in this thing, you believe it to be sin.
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you believe it to be sin, you, what again,
29:10
[SPEAKER_02]: in the process of reconciling that sin with Christians that engage in this thing.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Most people, not all because there are some that I think consistently follow this through, but most people who take stances like this aren't, they either don't realize the theological implications that that would require, and I don't think they're willing.
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: to follow through with those theological implications.
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're going to say a subset of Christians are wrong for doing this, they should not do this.
29:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then we need to engage with that subset of Christians like we would any other subset of Christians that are behaving sinfully, but most of the time they're not willing to do that.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, that's the consistent application,
30:00
[SPEAKER_02]: of what we are saying when we take convictions, and we make them law, right?
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all right.
30:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's, let's hop in here.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Rosemary's baby like I've seen the really scary movies out there and now I'm like, oh, I know why my mom didn't want me to watch signs when I was like can fix great Okay, so again, why would people?
30:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Lightwork like signs of do signs.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure Ali's a sweet gal man.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like this.
30:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want this to come off like I'm I'm coming at Ali at all
30:34
[SPEAKER_02]: but she says, I've seen the really scary movies that are out there.
30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen signs, and that brings signs.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Signs isn't, I wouldn't even classify signs as horror.
30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even think it's in the like horror genre.
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like mysterious.
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so again, this is, this is like, I'm not, I'm not mad or angry.
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm literally just kind of like, oh, like, oh, you're,
31:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Does Ally need to take us into a swim filter?
31:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, does Ally need to take a intro into film theater kind of class to justify where she's as far as understand it?
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not literally guys, I'm not trying to be a jerk.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not trying to be like, it's like, it's like the old folks who say like, I don't think Christian should be listening to heavy metal.
31:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's good for them and like, okay, what do you mean by that?
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's that new skillet band.
31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they should be listening to skillet.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, oh, okay, okay, all right, no, no, no, no, I got you a question now.
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Christian, yeah, it's like that that hard rock Christian, if you heard the band third day, like they're they're they're getting a little up at me.
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, all right, Vingai, all right, so again, I am not, I don't want this at all.
31:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The feel like we're, we're coming after Ali, it's more of a, oh, like, okay, that's a clean, it's clean.
31:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, let's let's continue here the scary movie signs.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where left.
31:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's signs when I was like in sixth grade.
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It scared me Like being scared is not like how many times how many times do we read through out script
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do it.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do it.
32:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do it.
32:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't do it.
32:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't do it.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do it.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Throughout Scripture from Jesus and in the Old Testament, do not fear.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: She did it.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
32:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's here's ISIS.
32:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's this.
32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, this is what you have to do.
32:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it follows the playbook.
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what you have to do if you're going to raise personal conviction.
32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: to corporate application is you have to rip versus out of context that support your conviction and make them law.
32:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore they can be applied across the board to Christians.
32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Scripture speaks very often about not fearing, about not having anxiety, about trusting in the
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: but every single one of those verses has a context around it that is meant to be understood in the context that it is given.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's her one baby.
33:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right?
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I think from the very limited info that I know about Ali, I think she would agree with that.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she would understand the concept of contextualization when it comes to the word of God.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is what I mean by those blinders that just it it is like you can almost set your watch by it man blinders get put on so easily when we start engaging with some of these hot button issues because
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: we are interpreting scripture through the lens of either our upbringing, our experience, other extra biblical factors, whatever it may be, this is what ends up happening.
34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And we end up ripping verses out of context and using them to prove a point that all you're really proving is that, at least in this particular scenario, you don't know how to interpret
34:17
[SPEAKER_02]: and make a biblical argument, and you end up kind of looking foolish because now not only are you showing yourself of being kind of legalistic, you're showing yourself to be harmonetically ignorant, and that's just kind of what ends up happening.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And it happens all the time when we start engaging with conscience issues and trying to make them
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: trying to give them a a position that they were not meant to have.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's let's round the video out and then we can we can close up here.
34:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Do not fear and yet we purposely consume content that is meant to make us scared.
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we often think about like the horror content, the scary content, law and order S.V.U.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: that
35:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's another, we just flew over another state of the alone or part of it, part of it, part of it, people, why, again, those verses, they are in the Bible, absolutely.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But what those verses in the context, if you're going to look at those contexts, you have individuals being told that specifically because they are failing to put their trust in God.
35:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They are failing to trust their Savior.
35:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They are failing to trust their Lord that says, I will be with you.
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I will not forsake you.
35:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Christ in Matthew is dealing with
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: the individuals that are that are racked with anxiety because they are not trusting in the Lord for their provision.
35:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And he points to to his creation.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at the birds.
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at how God takes care of the birds.
35:55
[SPEAKER_02]: How much more will he take care of you?
35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the context that we're meant to understand these these commands to not fear.
36:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not meant to just use as a blanket.
36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Stay in what God tells us not to be scared.
36:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So anytime you're scared,
36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, that is the application if we're going to consistent theologically I would argue of this argumentation.
36:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think you can do that.
36:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bad her minutics.
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bad interpretation.
36:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether she means to or not, she's setting up a standard here that is just not found in scripture.
36:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's trying to use it to justify the position that that she holds here.
36:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see if I can finish, let's finish this up.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You are in Bible that is actually a direct contradiction of Jesus' command to not fear or be anxious about anything.
36:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So we shouldn't be facilitating fear.
36:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, so that's the whole video.
37:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I've said a lot.
37:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, any, any, any more thoughts on this, man, I will say this.
37:10
[SPEAKER_03]: If you guys need scriptural backing, if you are a Christian and you are being pressed by the idea of you participating with your kids in trick or treating, can I just advise you that Paul
37:27
[SPEAKER_03]: in his letter to the first Corinthians, in his letter to the Corinthians, is talking primarily about eating meat sacrifice to idols.
37:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And in that eating meat sacrifice to idols, the meat is neutral.
37:41
[SPEAKER_03]: The idols are not real.
37:44
[SPEAKER_03]: The situation and the world that we live in is absolutely real, and we have to deal with it time and time again.
37:52
[SPEAKER_03]: the issue here is that we get spooked and we get afraid of the fact of obviously like ad hominims where you have fake quotes by the leader of the church of Satan saying Halloween is the most, you know, I love it when Christian celebrate Halloween or participate now.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That court doesn't exist guys.
38:15
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not a real quote.
38:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Look it up.
38:17
[SPEAKER_03]: It's
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Send tag jack in the in the comments, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for jack to take some heat for once.
38:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a real quote.
38:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So I will say this, I will be out in front of my house on Halloween, giving out candy, giving out hot chocolate, giving out coffee.
38:38
[SPEAKER_03]: My son will probably go around to house is getting candy.
38:41
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want a bath of ties me, go ahead.
38:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It does not matter to the matter of my faith and place in Jesus Christ.
38:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I fully belong to him.
38:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I am secure in him.
38:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not getting ransomed by Satan in order to get pulled out of the faith.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this goes back to Hermanutics 101, like every single time.
39:02
[SPEAKER_03]: People talk about the market of the beast.
39:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Right every single time.
39:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's always this panic of oh my gosh the mark of the beast guys It's in the Bible Christians can never get the mark of the beast look it up It is right there in plain land.
39:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But Jimmy Jenkins and Tim La He said, you know, it's said this man I don't know.
39:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
39:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I will just say this Go be not like I will say this be not afraid Because you know that you fully belong to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
39:32
[SPEAKER_03]: be not afraid because you can walk through this world, how ugly, how messy, how demonic, how satanic it is sometimes, and you can show people the love of Christ, and you can give them the gospel, and you can participate in this way that shows them Jesus, time and time again, and your conscience is clean, guys.
39:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Stop with this satanic panic.
39:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Focus in on your identity with Christ.
39:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Know that you're not gonna be ransomed out of the kingdom of God just because somehow some way you went up to a house and knocked on the store and got candy.
40:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this is not the time nor the place to be doing that.
40:10
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the, these are the assurance issues of why evangelicalism is in absolute shambles right now, guys.
40:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, let's go back to our Hermanutics, let's go back to scripture, let's go back to the foundation of what we understand these things on, and let's be real like, can we be adults?
40:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we be adults in the room right now?
40:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we talk about this in a real way?
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't hit that for a while.
40:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like that.
40:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like that guy where you shot that shot and last dance where you go.
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jordan was like, oh, I made it.
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael, you did pay me 20 bucks.
40:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry guys had to do it.
40:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Had to do it.
40:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, to rant.
40:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I like had to be a particular, like had to be a particular Baptist for there for a moment and just give some reason and some conscience to this right now.
41:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Captain Jack doesn't go off often, but boy when he does it's fun to watch.
41:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I just sit back and just let him knickly know like finally.
41:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, he's gonna finally get all of this heat.
41:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna save for a little bit.
41:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to that.
41:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, absolutely.
41:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
41:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We have scripture that is our authority.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It tells us what is sin and it tells us what is not.
41:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's very clear.
41:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes no ifs or buts about what violates the law of God.
41:37
[SPEAKER_02]: In the matters where it is silent, it provides principles, but not application.
41:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And it does that for a reason, right?
41:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if we are going to just create law
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: in addition to all of the other reasons in this episode that we have talked about why that's an issue.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's lazy, it's lazy, because it does not require you to have discernment in those issues.
42:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like discernment on the surface, but what it actually is, it's, it's,
42:12
[SPEAKER_02]: is lazy.
42:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's just easier not to think about it.
42:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just let's just not put the biblical principles.
42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: God has given us into practice on an individual level and let's just blank it the entire thing so we don't have to worry about it.
42:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's lazy.
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not how we're supposed to engage with issues that we face in this world and that we come across in this Christian life.
42:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We take the scriptures and we apply them to them individually.
42:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And then live your conscience, right?
42:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with Luther to go against conscience is neither right nor safe.
42:45
[SPEAKER_02]: If it violates your and hurts your conscience, then yeah, don't do that thing, but also understand that it is possible for the conscience to be wrong.
42:54
[SPEAKER_02]: and for the conscience to be misinformed.
42:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why our conscience must be informed and not by our opinion, not by the cultural moment, not by our upbringing, but by what the Word of God says.
43:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in,
43:09
[SPEAKER_02]: those differences that we have with our brothers and sisters, we have liberty and we have grace.
43:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I would encourage Ali Beth, one to read chapter 21 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession.
43:26
[SPEAKER_02]: and to maybe watch a horror film.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I don't know.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she just needs that she needs to if if if her top horror films for her again, I don't want her to violate her content so don't do that.
43:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it's Rosemary's baby in science, I do we we got a X.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We got it.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: At least have X or X. Yeah.
43:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we got to at least have much source material.
43:48
[SPEAKER_02]: to justify your position right so that anyway that's just my opinion poltergeist poltergeist I would recommend poltergeist anyway if you want to hear more about some some good horror films that maybe I like and that I enjoy we're going to talk about it over on the Patreon but Jack want you get us out of here my friend
44:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, if you appreciate Josh and I sauce you miss today's spicy, so if you will spot matters of liberty and the conscience.
44:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Going back to our roots, going back kicking at old school, 16 and 9, particularly the Baptist.
44:19
[SPEAKER_03]: If you appreciate how we put the local church central to the believer's life in episodes that you do here,
44:25
[SPEAKER_03]: You can throw us on the sociables if you will.
44:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, those bastardly real things.
44:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if we have a meta-count anymore.
44:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh is informing me of this.
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know if we're on there.
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Our Facebook got purged, and at the end of the day, whatever, we have Twitter and we have Instagram.
44:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we have Instagram.
44:43
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all we have.
44:44
[SPEAKER_03]: We have the Instagrams.
44:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Goes well with chocolate, marshmallows, sprinkle hear the sea on top of it.
44:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Goes well.
44:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: We also have the sociable formerly known as Twitter X, if you will.
44:55
[SPEAKER_03]: All the interesting things you'll find me tweeting about my heartbreak of the Cleveland Guardians losing the nails.
45:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes to Tampa Bay But also my thrill of wanting the brewers to crush them in the world series You'll you'll see a little bit of that shoot the real babies spicyness on on X that way So Josh you can read a little bit of people behind my supporters further in our endeavors
45:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, well you can head on over to YouTube like comment subscribe hit the little bell for notifications as the kids say We greatly appreciate that does make the instant grams go down a lot smoother when you can see him as well So listen to him you can write to this podcast and review this podcast on Apple on Spotify if you have not done so Maybe you're a long time listener no time reviewer now is the time and honor of Reformation
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: and honor of the five solos and honor of everything else that is good about the fall season give us a five star give us a rating maybe maybe write a little maybe write a little review tell us about how you found the found the podcast maybe what you like about it
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We'd greatly appreciate that, helps get the podcast out to more people.
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And last but not least, we do have a Patreon.
45:59
[SPEAKER_02]: As I said, we're going to have on over there.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about some spooky, scary, spooky scary stuff.
46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And who knows what else, it's going to be awesome.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But we have a great time over on the Patreon.
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only $5 a month.
46:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all it is.
46:13
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to raise that.
46:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because we believe in, in cheap entertainment and we also believe in you get what you pay for him.
46:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Five dollars is about all we feel like we could have charged for what you get over there.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but that is $5 a month if you choose to do so.
46:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Our pledge to you is a Joe name shall be Halloween.
46:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, hello, hello, through the halls of the podcast.
46:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That is our pledge to you.
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We thank you all for listening and we will catch you on the next step of the reformatory.