Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Salt of this Sea with Yasmina Tawil

Transcript

Salt of this Sea with Yasmina Tawil · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Caitlin Durante.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: where we take a look at your favorite movies using
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: jumping off point. Wow, Caitlyn, what what the hell is that?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It has many variations.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: The one that we use is do two characters of
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: And is their conversation about something other than a man?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: And we like it when it's a narratively relevant conversation.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Which will not be a problem with our episode today,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: which is why it's a jumping off point for a discussion. Yes,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: because our podcast has been on for over eight years
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: now and Alison Bechdel, I think is very kindly, politely
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: ignored our existence for the better part of a decade.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: I do at this point sort of like, I'm like,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: I wonder if we hit ten years, if she'll just
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: like pop out of the floorboards, Like I feel like
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: she should throw us a surprise party.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Is that?
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've talked for a long time about
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: having her as a guest on the likes.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Her emails, so it's like she also wants nothing to
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: do with us, but she hasn't sued us.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Have we emailed her? I think we have been too scared.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I think we did when the podcast started, which was
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: un The hubris of that is just like absurd. We're
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: just like, hey, we're two people ripping off your likeness.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Will you do free labor for us? Like we've grown,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: we've learned. I just sort of, you know, someday, someday, I.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Have no memory of this. I thought we were always
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: too frightened.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I have to go back into the archives. I feel
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: like we were so flagrant at the beginning in our youth.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Could be in any case.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: In any case, we are here with the do episode.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: We're very excited.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So the movie we're covering today is Salt of This
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: c a two thousand and eight movie written and directed
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: by Anne Marie Jacir, and we're so excited to talk
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: about it. And we're so excited to talk to our
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: guest today, who is a film programmer at Brooklyn Academy
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of Music, the curator of Cinema Arabia. She's a former
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: director of film programming at the Arab Film and Media Institute.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It's Yesmina tweel Hi, Hello and welcome.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I'm so happy and excited to be here.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: We're so excited you're here.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Something I didn't list in your credits, but I think
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: is important to mention is that you also studied at
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Boston University and have a degree in film. It's not
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: a master's degree in screenwriting, which is something that I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: would never mention having.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: But it's not and I put it specifically in my
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: email to you to make sure you knew.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you did.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: But that does mean statistically all three of us have
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: like someone has coughed in our mouths on the green line,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: and I feel like that's a beautiful bonding experience. Well,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for being here. And for bringing
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: us this movie. If you're in the US and you
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: have a library card, you should be able to watch
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: this film on canopy right now. That's where I believe
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: we watched it. But I wanted to start before we
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: get into Salt of this Sea. I mean when you
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: sent us, you sent us a really comprehensive list of
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: movies that would be good for us to talk about,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: but so many of them were difficult to stream. So
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: because you've been such a huge supporter and curator of
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Arab cinema in a country where it is just like
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: not as easy to access Arab cinema, I want to
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: know a little bit about your experience in this space
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: and what you're doing right now.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So for some context for listeners, I am Arab,
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: as one would hope. I was born in the US,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: but my mom is from Lebanon, my dad is from Syria,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: and I actually didn't grow up with Arab cinema really.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: I know my parents had a couple of VHS tapes,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: but it wasn't until maybe it was in high school
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: that I watched a couple things they had West Beiru
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: and Caramel, which to this day or two of my
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: absolute favorite films. But when I really started getting into
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: it was when I started volunteering with the Arab Film
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: and Media Institute. At the time, it was just the
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Arab Film Festival, and I started writing the blog for them,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: and I kind of got a hands on education in
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: Arab cinema, particularly contemporary Arab cinema. It also led me
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: down some paths of learning about the cinema industry in
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: these different countries as well, and so I taught myself
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: a lot just through that. I'd always been very proud
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: of my heritage and was studying film, so it just
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: kind of went hand in hand that I would start
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: working in that space beyond just volunteering and writing the blog,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: and was very honored to be brought on as the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: director of Film Programming in twenty twenty one, and then
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: it just kind of my involvement in the Arab cinema
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: space just kind of exploded out from there.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: That's great, Yeah, but.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: It seems like you're like truly a fixture in the
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: New York film scene at this point. I like to think, so, yeah,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: and we're going to declare it here right now because
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: we definitely have that power. Yeah, I mean, going off
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: of that. What is your history with this film in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: particular and this director's work.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Anri Yasser is one of the most famous
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: filmmakers from the region, and I had noted about her
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: work for a while. I can't remember when I saw
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: this film for the well, I think it wasn't that
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: long ago, actually, but I actually saw Ann Marie's film
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Lajib first many years ago in Beirut, and then Salt
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: of This Sea only more recently in the last few years.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: But both films made me completely fall in love with her.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: And she has such a way of capturing just the
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: human experience, but the human experience that happens to be
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: in Palestine and speaks to all the bigger sort of
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: social and political ramifications of living under occupation in her stories.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so this film is fairly new to me,
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: but I've been familiar with An Marie's work for many
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: many years.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Nice, yeah, Jamie, how about you.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I hadn't seen this before. I had seen one of
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Henry Jasser's more recent shorts. It was very short. My
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: friend Kavon put together a like streamed Palestinian Shorts presentation.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I want to.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Say, like around this time last year and there was
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: a short she directed in I Have It up Here
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two called from Palestine with Love. That is
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: it's four minutes long, but it was really really beautiful.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: You should check it out if you're able. But it's
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: basically a series of cement blocks being removed to reveal
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: this gorgeous beach and children playing on the beach. And yeah,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: so that was my experience with her work. I also
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: now looking at her IMDb page, realized she's directed an
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: episode of Romi. So I have seen whatever episode she directed,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I've seen it every episode of that show.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: I think it's the one that takes place in Palestine,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: or maybe there's a couple that take place in Palestine.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Let me check. Oh yes, yes, yeah, it's from also
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two Egyptian Cigarettes. Yeah, I guess I was
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: semi familiar with her more recent work, but had not
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: seen Salt to This Sea before. And it's so I
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: just I really was like blown away at the sort
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: of ease of her writing too, and how there are
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: so many complex things. I mean, if you're not familiar
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: with the Israeli occupation and the plight of the Palestinian people,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: it is a lot of information to convey, but it's
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: conveyed through It's just so naturally conveyed. And you also
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: kind of get this. This is like a maybe dumb
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: thing to harp on, but I was really blown away
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: at how how often we talk about on the show
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: how forced love stories feel, and how natural this one felt,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: and how just like her writing is so effortless, where
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: even when you don't agree with what a character is doing,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: you completely understand why they're doing it. And anyways, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's great. I'm excited to watch more of her work.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kaitlyn, this was my first film of Amory Jasser's
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: and I loved it. I think this is such a
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: movie moving, beautiful film, and all my notes on like
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: the discussion part of this episode is just gonna be
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: me being like and then this scene which is really
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: good and has this really amazing commentary.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: It's just a really good movie. I mean, it's just yeah,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: it's wonderful.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I did. When you were asking me for films,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: I was trying to think of some of the like
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: lighter but like high quality worth talking about films, And
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: I think this film is a great introduction for a
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: lot of American audiences but yeah, I was real listening
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: to old episodes before this, and I was like, oh,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: this is gonna be a hard one to rip on.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Well, just because we mostly do that on most episodes.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: It's just because a lot of movies are horrid, yeah,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: and they make it easy for us to dump on them.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: But when the movie is really good, will be nice.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: It was also really interesting seeing like how well we'll
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: talk about it, but like how collaboratively the story was built,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: where the star of the film is also a writer
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: and is pulling from her own experience to build out
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: her character. And I just I'm just excited to talk
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: about it. I love collaboration with women.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: This is great. You love to see it.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: You just love to see it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: for the recap. Okay, here is the recap for Salt
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: of This Sea. We open on images of buildings being bulldozed,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: people being removed from their homeland, images from the Nakba
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: of nineteen forty eight. Then we cut to the present
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: or the present of this film, which is, you know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. We meet Soya Tahani played by
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Suher Hamad A Brooklyn born Palestinian American woman who has
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: just a in the occupying, genocidal state that is Israel.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: The Israeli officials are interrogating Soraya about why she's there,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: about her name, her religion, her ethnic background. They strip
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: search her body, they rifle through her luggage, you know,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: just put her through this all around degrading experience, and
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: finally she's released and allowed to go. Onward, we learn
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: that her grandfather was born in the Palestinian city of
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yafa before he was forcibly removed during the Nakpa and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: displaced to Lebanon, where both of Soria's parents were born.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Her father recently passed away, which seems to be what
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: has inspired her to take this trip. She travels to
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the city of Ramala in the occupied West Bank, where
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: she links up with her friend Karn, who I think
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: is in like one or two scenes, and then she's
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I know, I kept being.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Like, Where's Where's Coronette, But then I kind of forgot
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: after a while because I just got into the other characters.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: For because she goes to this restaurant. Sarah goes to
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: a restaurant with Karin with other people who are like
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: rude and entitled to the wait staff, and I was
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: just like, if this, if this is who Karen's hanging
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: out with, I don't really I don't really care much
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: for her. And speaking of the there's a waiter at
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: this restaurant and we're like, hmm, I wonder if he's
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: gonna come up again later. He's too handsome not to
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: show back up.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Young Salah Bakri.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Ugh, right, this is like one of his breakout roles, right.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that was something that I was so delighted
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: the first time I saw it. I was like, look
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: at this little baby Salah Bakri. So like, sorry to
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: interrupt you, Caitlin, but no, please her listeners. Slav Backriy
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: is like a prolific Palestinian actor. You like, actually may
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: have seen him in some American works, nothing like super
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: notable on the American Well, actually, I take that back.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: The film that got the most famous in the West
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: was The Band's Visit. He was in that, Oh okay,
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: But he's been in some smaller indie films from Europe
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: and the US and then in like every other Arab film.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: He's a fantastic actor. He's an absolute sweetheart and he
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: is so hot. At every age too. And his father
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: is really hot and a great actor and a great
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: director as well. But they have beautiful genes in the
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Bakery family. Oh and his brother too, Adam's an actor too.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: So he's from like a Palestinian film family. Yes, yeah, cool,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: I was, Yeah, Caitlin, I had the same thought as
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: you when he came in frame. I was like, if
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: that man doesn't come back, we've made a big mistake.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Because whatever movie language is so impressive in so many ways.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: But sometimes when you see someone's that hot, you're like, Okay,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: so I'm going to see this person again. Someone hot
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: and they have a little twinkle in their eye, see
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: you soon.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, he's so good at the twinkle, the little look.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Uh truly Okay, so we perceive him, as does soria
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Then Soriah goes to a branch of the British Palestine
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Bank where her grandfather had an account with three hundred
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: and fifteen Palestinian pounds in nineteen forty eight money we
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: will learn this is the equivalent of around fifteen thousand
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: US dollars.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: And sixteen cents. I believe in.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Sixteen cent Yes, it is like fifteen thousand, five hundred
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: something something in sixteen cents, this exact amount will become
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: you'll understand why it's so important and a little bit.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: But she tries to, you know, withdraw this money from
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: this account, but it turns out she can't access the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: account because it's no longer considered to be valid since
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: it's from before nineteen forty eight. And she's like, okay,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: that's bullshit. This bank still exists, so it's responsible for
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: this money that is rightfully mine, and the bank is
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: just kind of like, shrug, I don't know, come back
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: later and talk to our regional manager. So Soriah goes
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and rents an apartment in Ramala. She returns to the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: bank and speaks to the white British regional manager, who
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: basically says the same thing, that the account is invalid
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: because the Israeli Control Board had claimed that her father
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: was not a refugee, even though he was, but they
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: deemed the whole situation such that the account was invalid
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: and he couldn't access the money. And the bank manager's
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: very condescending and shitty about this whole thing. So Soriah
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: leaves and runs into that waiter from the restaurant. This
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: is a man named Ahmad played by Sala Bakri. She
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: just like gets in his car. She's like, can I
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: go with you wherever you're going?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Well, because she's kind of being like cat called and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I think is like a little bit uncomfortable. And then Yeah,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: gets in a hot man's car nearby.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, no big deal, I'm just gonna
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: go pick up my nephew. Come along, And then she
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: goes to his home and meets his family. They drive
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: around a little bit. He kind of like takes her
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: around so that she can explore her country. She tells
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: him about her grandfather's life in Yaffa pri Nakpa. He
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: tells her that he received a scholarship to study at
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a university in Canada and he's just waiting on his
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: visa and he's like, oh, I can't wait to never
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: see another soldier again, referring to the IDF who on
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: their way back stops and antagonizes them. So we see
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: these soldiers making him strip down in the middle of
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: the street. More degrading experiences for them. Then Sayah applies
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: for a Palestinian passport. She's currently there on a two
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: week visa and is trying to be able to stay longer,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: but she is denied a passport because of you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: restrictive red tape that is real and forces.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I have a quick question just to make sure I
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: was like understanding what was happening at the beginning correctly.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: When she was going to Palestine. At the very beginning,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: they determined that she could only be there for two
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: weeks upon her arrival or did she know that already?
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: That was something I wasn't totally clear on.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think the movie makes it especially clear. Maybe
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: if there's like contexts that you already have.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: She has a visa, right because they asked to see
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: the so it must have. I would imagine it said
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: two weeks.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: That she yeah, and that she was going to try
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: to get it expanded. Yeah, okay, I just wanted to
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: make sure I didn't miss something because I watched it
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: twice and I was like, is it a surprise that
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: it's two weeks? Anyways?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: International travel is just confusing.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: It's just an absurdly short amount of time as well.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, visas are are crazy, and sometimes you forget
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: when you're having an American passport.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I take it for granted, so hard totally.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't remember. Sorry, this is an aside. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: literally just watched this today and I can't remember. Does
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: she meet with a lawyer to talk about the visa?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure who she's speaking to. She's in
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: some sort of official office with a woman. No, it's
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: a man, Okay, with a man.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm just I'm thinking about somebody's cameo and I'm like,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: is this the movie or never mind?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe she goes to like in office
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: of the Palestinian Authority or something, because that's where.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: She gets advised by somebody. But yeah, I also wasn't
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: clear who exactly like she was seeking out.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: I'm like scrubbing through the film right now.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: But anyway, So soria and Emma talk about living in
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Palestine versus leaving. They talk about how to deal with
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the Israeli occupying forces. They kind of butt heads about it.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: We can talk about like the more specifics of their
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: conversation later if we want, but they're like not super
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in agreement on like how to deal with the occupation.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Then Soriah tells Amud and his friend Marwin, who is
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: an aspiring filmmaker, I.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Love my favorite character, My favorite character. I love him.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: He's like, I'm down, I'm down for anything. Let's go.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: We're gonna rob a bank. Let's go.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Oh you want to do a bank heist? I'm in.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, he is my favorite character.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I liked him until he decides to stay. Does he
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: decide to stay with that Israeli woman?
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, that is where he does lose.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Early scenes with him, though, I just appreciated. I just
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: love a character who is very passionate about anything and
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: also is constantly kind of cock blocking the main couple
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: of the business, which is his role for the first
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: like two thirds of the movie. And then yes, when
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: the Israeli women becomes involved, you're like, oh, you really
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: had me in the first half. But yeah, he's a treat.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: He is third wheeling them a bit.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean many such cases. I've done that so
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: many times, where you're just like, these people want to
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: fuck Well, I'm here, too bad, I'm here, So what
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: are we gonna do?
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: You're my only friend?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, well I also robbed the bank, so you have
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: to talk to me.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah. They had to find some way to get rid
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: of him. Story. I guess that was the best way
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: to do it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, anyway, So we meet him, and so Riah
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: tells Emmud and Marwin that she wants to basically rob
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: the bank, the one that's supposed to have her grandfather's money,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: though it's not really a robbery because she would just
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: be reclaiming the money that belongs to her and her family.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Marwin is in, He's like sure.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: He doesn't have a single question. He's like, this is
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: going to be great tape. Let's go.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: He's like, I'll get some good b roll out of this.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So he's in, but Emmud is out. He's like, I
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: got my future to think about. I'm going to university
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: in Canada. I can't be robbing banks. But then Emmod
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and Soriyah lose their restaurant jobs because they like protest
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: to their boss who is not paying them. And Emmod
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: is particularly upset because he reveals that his visa to
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: go to Canada was denied, and Sarah's like, well, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: it's okay, we can apply for another visa. But it
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: turns out this is the fourth time he's been refused
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: and probably indefinitely anytime he tries that would be the case.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So he agrees now to participate in this heist as
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: long as they do it Soria's way with guns, but
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: no bullets because they don't want to hurt anybody. So
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: they make preparations and then Soria Ahmad and Marwin go
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: through with this you know, quote unquote bank robbery aka
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: soriah taking back what's rightfully hers that like fifteen thousand,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: five hundred seventy two dollars and sixteen cents.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Plus interest, which is such a great Oh, I just
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: love that one.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Was so much great tag to the scene, yesh the
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: equivalent of like what three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: would be in two thousand and eight American money, So
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that's what she takes. They escape, and they cross into
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the occupying state of Israel disguised as Jewish people with
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: yamakas and stars of David and like pro America propaganda T.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Shirts, the T shirt, the T shirt, the whole.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Sort of hiding their identity thing with like Silas wearing
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: a Yamaica with Israeli an American flags on it, and yeah,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: I forget what his T shirt says, but like clearly
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: they went to some like weird tourists.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: It's very like peer peer T shirt, but I have
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: it written down somewhere, but yeah, it's like indicating like
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: we've got you Israel love Oh America, don't worry, Israel's
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: behind you. And there's a picture of like a fighter
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: plane on it. It's just so fucking scary.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And they have the star of David in the
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: car and.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Right as like an air freshener. Something I really appreciated
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: about this movie is that in terms of like indicting
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: American culture specifically, but just Western culture in general, it
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: equally which we're about to get to, but like equally
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: is not afraid to indict Western liberalism as well. In
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I think my favorite most infuriating moment of the movie,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: which we'll get to in a second, but the T
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: shirt was very funny.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah for sure.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: And it works too because IDF soldiers are dumb as rocks.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, looks good to me, come on through.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: That's the sentence I agree with.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And so these characters go to I believe, Jerusalem, and
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: they're able to move about more freely because they are
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: not in occupied land and they are being perceived as Jewish,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: so no one's really giving them trouble.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: But still not completely safely too, which is I think
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: another thing that's donned super well is like even when
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: they are quote unquote in the clear, they're never quite
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: in the clear.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: They're still alluming threat over them for sure. Yeah. They
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: head to the coast, they swim and frolic in the sea.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Then they go to Yafa, to the home where Soria's
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: grandfather lived before he was forcibly removed during the Nakba.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: A young Israeli woman she lives in this house now.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: She invites them in and lets them stay for a while,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and she's friendly quote unquote, and she has mugs that
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: say things like end the occupation, and she's talking to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: them and saying things like, yeah, I hate all this violence.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: We all just want peace, right.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: Oh my god? Uh liberal zionis exactly.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: So as time goes on, and like soriah asks her
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: what she did with her grandfather's furniture, and she wants
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: this woman to admit that her family stole this house
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: from Soria's family, but this woman refuses, and she calls
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: the cops on them, so Soria and Ammad leave.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Like this scene is so infuriating, but it's so good.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: It's so good and just stripping back this character that
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: you're like, I guess if you if you have no
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: like knowledge of what the dynamics between these characters could be,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: you could be lured into this false sense of security.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: But the second it and because I feel like that's
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: like a very liberal Zionis and just liberal thing to
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: do in general, is like, oh yes I have quote
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: unquote the right opinion. But the second it threatens me personally,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: fuck you, I'm out, this is mine and I'm calling
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: the cops on you. Like It's just done so quickly
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: and so effectively. And yeah, yeah, why did my favorite
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: characters stay back with her?
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, they're like flirting a little bit
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: and they seem to be connecting, but it's just like Marwin,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: come on, like, what are you doing? She's she's no good.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: My head canon as he went undercover and he was
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: gonna bust the whole family, He's gonna bust the case
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: wide open.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And get back the house for Soriat. That would be nice.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I have no proof. I just want to believe the
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: best in him. But yeah, he kind of disappears after this.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Emmad wants to go to, oh, I forget
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: how to pronounce this city's name.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: I think it's Joweima. There's actually I don't know if
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: you remember the bit with the storekeeper. Yeah, she's trying
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: to change her pronounce they're trying to find it, so
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: she's trying to change her pronunciation because I think he's
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: an Israeli shopkeeper. So she's like, maybe pronounce it differently,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: but she makes it like a yo mama joke.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, which is like, oh, right, this movie came out
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: Right, jo mama, Yeah, I think she says at one point, Yeah, yeah,
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: Dowema or Dewaima. Yeah.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: But like the point is that the name of the
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: city has been changed by Israel, and that's why he
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: doesn't know what they're talking about.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, this city is where Ahmad's family is originally from,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: soh that's why he wants to go there, and he
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and Soria travel there once they figure out where it
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: is and what it's called. Now they arrive, the buildings
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: have been abandoned, if not destroyed. They find an abandoned
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: house to stay in. They smooch a little bit, then
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: they head to a nearby town to buy a mattress
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: and some other like homey touches. But a cop or
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: soldier or some occupier starts to hassle Ahmad when he's outside,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: so Sarah comes up to him and like saves him
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: in Spanish, which makes the cop assume that they're tourists,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: so he lets them go, but Amad is like, don't
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: do that again, Like we could both end up in
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: jail because her visa is now expired and he has
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: no documentation that allows him to be there at all.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: So they go back to the abandoned house where they've
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: kind of made camp. They stay there they discuss possible
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: futures of theirs, but the next morning, an Israeli teacher
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: who's like on a field trip with his students finds them.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: He spews a bunch of you know, Zionist propaganda and
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: says that they can't camp there because it's a national park,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: so they have to leave again. And then there's a
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: moment when Ahmad is alone and two cops approach him.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Sarah tries to save him again, saying, oh, I know him.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: He works at the kibbutz where I stay, but the
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: cops continue to harass Ahmad and the situation escalates, and
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: then he and Sarah are both arrested but like also separated,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: and Soria is taken to the airport to be deported
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: back to the US, and the movie ends much the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: same way that it started, with Soria being interrogated at
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the airport by occupiers. They ask where she's from. She says,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I'm from here. I'm from Palestine and I've been here
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: all my life. That passport you're holding in your hands,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: you think it might be an American passport, but it's
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: actually a Palestinian passport, And this is my home and
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you stole it. Is basically this sentiment, and that's how
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: we'll come back to discuss.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: And we're back. We're back where to begin. As upsetting
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: as it is, I think, just like even just like
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: in a filmmaking sense, the rug pull at the end
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: of this movie is so devastating and so effective, because again,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: it's just like, it's so hard to build a love
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: story that is genuinely of people, people who are so
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: different that you're really really rooting for, and seeing this
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: political violence and occupations separate them in a way that
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: logistically you're like, of course that happened, but it's so devastating.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: It's just like I just the ending really got me.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: And I wish I saw this movie when it came
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: out when I was in high school, because I feel
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: like this is like an ideal movie to show to
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: younger people, to demonstrate the consequences and yeah, where where
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: do we start?
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I'll say kind of to that point. Yeah, one
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: of the reasons I picked this movie a I think
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: it's incredible. I really love it, but I do I
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: think I mentioned it earlier. I think it's a really
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: good endpoint for American audiences without being one of these
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Arab films made for American audiences. I think it's made
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: for everyone. And I say specifically American in part because
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: the character of Soraya is like from New York City,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: are from Brooklyn, I've ever heard of it, But yeah,
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: it tells a story in this way that is perfect
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: for young audiences, for people, I mean, I hope kind
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: of at this point this is not really new to people,
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: but for people who are learning or unlearning something, I
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: think this is a really great way to start through film.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: And I actually screened this in Brooklyn last year, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: I did receive that as feedback. I had a friend
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: who brought someone he was seeing at the time who
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: was kind of a American liberal Zionist type person, the
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: kind of person who's like, oh, yeah, the fighting should end,
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: everyone should live in peace, and didn't understand there's more happening.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: It's bigger and worse and more complicated than that. And
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: apparently he left with like a lot of new insight
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: and empathy for the Palestinian people.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I just wanted to shout out the director
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: of bit More, Anne Marie Jasser, because this movie is
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the first feature film directed by a Palestinian woman.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry that that happened in two thousand and eight,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: but amazing that it happened. Yes, I was curious. This
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: also was And honestly I don't pay close enough attention
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: to the Oscars, but I know that every country gets
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: to submit one film to be considered for Best International
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Film at the Oscars, and this was Palestine' submission to
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: that year's Oscar Awards for the Academy Award for Best
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Foreign Language Film. So I wanted to just triple check
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: sort of what films were nominated that year because this
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: film was submitted but not ultimately nominated, right, and so
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: this would have been for the eighty first Academy Awards,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: so for the year two thousand and eight. And while
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: it was not ultimately nominated, an Israeli movie was, and
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: that is I think it's just worth calling out a
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: very common occurrence in the Academy Awards. Israeli movies are
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: very very very often nominated for Best International Film, which
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: given liberal or not liberal US politics, shouldn't be surprising,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: but is worth mentioning.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Well, the other thing about the director is that she
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: has so much award and festival recognition for her films,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: but because she's a Palestinian woman who directs movies about
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Arab people, she's like not a big name in Hollywood,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: so she doesn't get the recognition she deserves in this
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: film industry here in the US. But if you look
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: at her list of accolades and awards and festival recognition,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: it's like so much stuff. It's just not like a
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: mayor like Hollywood.
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is really common with Arab filmmakers or car
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: the board. The Palestine is a particularly strong filmmaking country
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: and some of arguably the best filmmakers in the region
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: come from there, not just Addmiry Jasser, but like Ilia
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Suliman and Hani Abu Asad, like speaking of like the oscars.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Ilia Suliman was the first had the first Palestinian film
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: ever submitted, which was not until two thousand and two,
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: and Hanyabusad had the first nominated Palestinian film. But yeah,
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: none of the three of them are highly recognized in
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: the Western world. And sorry, this is something that frustrates
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: me so much every day and as a reason I
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: started the Cinema Arabias screening series I do at Nighthawk Cinema.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: I get so frustrated because so many cinephiles, movie lovers
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: and people in the film industry have never seen an
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Arab film and don't know who any of the big
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: names are. Like Elia Suliman should be like an autur
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: that you know, you know what I mean, Like that
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: is like at every and his films have been at
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: all the big European film festivals and whatnot, and he
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: has the energy of like an Ocher French filmmaker, but
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: people don't know his name and it drives me nuts.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: I know exactly why this is the case, Just centuries
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: of vilification in the media and uh, you know, anti
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: Arab racism and stuff like that. But but yeah, getting
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: back to Anne Marie, she deserves well do we want
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: the approval of the Academy? Do we really care?
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: But well, yeah, sure she did.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: There's all the accolades regardless, Yes.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Any trophy. Yeah, you're just like the award body that
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: rewarded Green Book, you know who knows.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Very good point.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: The Academy awards too, don't leave a lot of space
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: for international cinema in general. I don't know if people
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: know this. People don't have a lot of understanding of
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: how the film industry works in general, starting with the
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: fact that you have to submit your film to the Oscars.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: It's not just every film ever that gets is in
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: the running.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: And there's like particularly like screening, very like sort of
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: ridiculous screening rules where it has to run in a
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: certain place for a certain amount of time.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think it needs in New York or maybe
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: it's just an American run or a New York in
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: an LA run, but it needs a proper theatrical run.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: It can't be a film festival, it can't be a
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: one off screening and That's why sometimes you'll see a
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: film that will just like randomly be at like a
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: weird theater for a week in the fall, just to qualify. Yeah,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: but a lot of international films don't get that opportunity
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: because they don't have distributors in the US. And then
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: on top of that, they're more likely to be picked
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: up by little indie distributors that don't have the money
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: to submitting to the OSCAR is past so much money,
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: plus you have to run a campaign on top of that,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: and then yeah, it's like the one that in what's
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: now called Best International Feature Film category is really the
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: one place and every country gets to submit one. Yeah, right,
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I am. I think the Academy Awards
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: should just accept that they're like an American award body
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: and lean into it. But hand you over.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think you're totally right where it
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: just feels like if folks were truly that surprised when
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: a non American or English movie one Best Feature five
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: years ago, then you're not a global film festival, like
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: be honest with yourselves, you know. Yeah, I was happy
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: to see and it makes me want to see more
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: of anry Jascer's movies that this seems to be the
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: beginning of a very fruitful collaborative relationship with her and
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: Salah Bakri. I guess he's in all of her features,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: all three of them, so they're besties. I just love
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: when someone's like, and here's my guy. Yeah, he's her
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: DiCaprio and she.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Includes his father in the film. Waship that the two
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: of them play a father son duo in the film.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Very nice. Yeah, that rocks. Also. I didn't make this
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: connection un till just now, but I recently saw the
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: film Omar, another Palestini movie from twenty thirteen. The titular
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: character Omar is played by Adam Bakri.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Oh his brother.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's his brother, who.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Is also so hot, like ridiculously handsome. I know we
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: were just talking about that, but I didn't put the
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: two and two together that that's him. So now I
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: know all the dots are connected. Very handsome family. We
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: love a hot.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: Family, very handsome, very talented family. Yeah. I know their
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: father directed some films.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I was seeing that too.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I don't know if Adam has directed anything,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: but anyway, very talented family.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I also want to shout out the actor who plays
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Soraya yes Suhara Hamad, who, much like her character, her
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: parents are Palestinian refugees. She was born in Jordan and
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: then her family relocated to Brooklyn when she was five,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I believe, and then later Staten Island. She's a poet
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: and author, a political activist. She obviously acted in this movie,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: but she's not necessarily like an actor by trade, although
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't know because she gives such a great performance
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: in this movie. But this is kind of one of
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: the only film roles she's done where she's like in
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: a fiction film playing a character kind of thing. She's
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: done like narration for other things.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: But she's also won a ton of awards for like
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: her writing. Yeah, exactly, yes, Jack all trades, but yeah,
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, all of the performances in this movie are
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: are so good, which is wonderful because you know, the
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: movie doesn't work without them. But the I think, especially
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: like the chemistry between the two main characters is so well.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm curious what people thought of that, because
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: I'm always sort of blown away when I'm very pulled
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: into a story. But I like this relationship so much
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: because you're pulled into their friendship connection first, and it's
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: so clear that they understand each other as people, and
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: the moment that they're meeting is so important that it
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: just makes sense that it grows into this romance because
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: they're both so beautiful. So you're like, well, at some
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: point you should kiss.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah, the two hot people have to have to kiss.
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: That's just the rules.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: And this movie is not afraid to make the hot
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: people kiss, and I appreciate that, but I just really,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, there are so many there's a number of
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: conversations between them before they get together that just I mean,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I'm yeah, I'm curious what you both felt about it,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: but how they are both to some extent representative of
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: very different Palestinian experiences. You know, where Soriah wants nothing
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: more than to stay and she can't, and Mahmad wants
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: nothing more than to leave and he can't. And they
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: both love Palestine and that is not that is a
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: core thing that they agree on, but their experiences of
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Palestine are so different. And it's a really beautiful friendship
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: to watch develop first, which is why when it turns
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: into a romance and even when she's like, should I
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: have a baby? I'm like, yeah, you probably should like
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: those more of these people.
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they definitely could have gone down the route of
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: like because they become friends and such like a sudden
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: way where like they see each other and then she
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: like sees him in his car and she just like
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: gets in and it's like she's like.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: You're my friend now, by the way, Yeah, exactly.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: You know, a worse film would have been like I
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: get into your car and we're in love now, right,
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: But they really she gives them some time to flesh
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: out their connection and yeah, their friendship. Like you said,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: I think it's a great film about the representation of
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: the diaspora experience, and that's a whole complicated thing, like
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: this longing for home, but you come from a situation
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: of privilege compared to the people back home, and then
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: especially for Palestinians who are pretty effectively stuck, it's I
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: don't really have much to say about it. It's a
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: situation that I am familiar with, but my situation is
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: much different than the Palestinian situation. I do have the
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: ability to go back to some degree, but there's always
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: this push and pull, and I see it a lot,
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: especially whenever things get bad in places like Paulus Signer
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: or Lebanon. It creates a tension between the two people.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: So it's nice to see it enacted on screen like that,
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: And I think it's an important conversation to have. Usually
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: you see one or the other, what to see it together?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what Really the scene that really struck me is
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: when they were discussing how she wants to be there
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: because this is her home and this is where her
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: family's from, and she feels this connection to this place
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: even though she hasn't spent time here prior to this.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: She grew up in the US, but you know she's
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: drawn to this place because this is where her roots are. Meanwhile,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Emma is like, you know, he's disillusioned with living in
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: this occupied place, under this occupation. And the conversation they
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: have where he's like, don't tell them the truth about
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: why you're here, Like you should have lied and said
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: that you're visiting Jewish friends, because you know, telling the
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: truth makes their job easier in their job being like
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: oppressing Palestinians. And she says, well, why should I lie?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Like all we have is the truth, All we have
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: is our truth, and he's like, you know, the truth
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: never helped anyone here, Like, look around, they've won.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he basically is like grow up.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Like open your eyes, look around you. But like I
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: see where both of them are coming from. You know,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the way the scene just plays out is in their
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: emotions and all of that is just really impressive and moving.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appree. Again, just like I feel like
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: her writing is so specific and the performance is just elevated.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: But how we fully understand how all three of the
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: main characters really feel. I love that they're all so
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: strongly motivated to rob a bank for three very different reasons,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: and like that is so hard. You don't get that
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: in Oceans eleven. You just don't. Some people are like, well,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess I'll do it, But like
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: we know why they're there. They're all doing a common
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: goal for a particular reason, and no one is presented
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: as like they're doing it for the wrong reason. This
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: character is doing it for the right reason. We're just
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: given the context of why, and they all like and
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: respect each other and work together even when they think
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: what the other person is doing is reckless or stupid.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: I feel like all three characters, but particularly in mod
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: and Soriya both have moments where I mean, with I
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: mod it's at the restaurant with Soya, it's at her
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: grandfather's house where they cannot contain their emotion anymore because
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: it's just it's too much, it's too upsetting, and I
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: feel like, again, a lesser movie would have the other
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: characters be angry with them, but there's just like such
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: a fundamental understanding, even though they're under standings and experiences
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: in Palestine are quite different, like Emma doesn't need to
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: ask why were you so mad back there?
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: And even with I mean the limited exposure we get
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: to Israeli characters and certainly didn't need to have more
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: than we had. But I did appreciate again that the
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: writing took care to show a gradient of villainy and
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: not even like less so, but like different types of prejudice,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: because I do feel like just in movies in general,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: like liberal prejudice is not shown very often, or like
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: not shown well because it's like if you see it,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: you see it in like a right wing movie, and
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: at that point you're like, well, what, you know, why
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: am I engaging with this at all? But I love
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: her writing so much because all of it is just
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: so organic.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and the showing the liberal Zionis, I think is
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: so it's so important. I won't mince words. Those people
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: drive me nuts. It's the kind of people who, yeah,
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: want there to peace, but don't understand what causes the war,
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: the violence, attention anyway, they don't recognize their own privilege
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: in society. Kind of people who condemn Netanyaho without investigating
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: anything further, and they're really not part of me is
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: trying to like hold back because I don't know any publics. Yeah,
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: they're like not they're not helpful to the cause. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: that the same goes for like the American liberals in general.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: But if we're speaking specifically on the the liberation of Palestine,
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: like holding hands is not what's gonna what's going to
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: free those people? Is that what's going to free any
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: of us?
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: And the way this character is handled in this like
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: kind of just larger situation as far as liberal Zionism goes,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: which like kind of represented by this one character, this
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Israeli woman who lives in the home that belongs to
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Soriah and her family, where like when they first go in,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: oh she's friendly, Oh come on, in stay as long
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: as you'd like. Oh, what a horrible situation. This is
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: all this violence. Everyone just wants peace, right except for
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: our leaders. And then she says something like, oh, your
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: grandfather left in nineteen forty eight. That's so sad. I
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: wish he had stayed. And it's like you're saying that
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: as you're living in the house that your family stole
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: from him, So you don't wish that he's stayed. You
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: feel entitled to this stolen house. And then this like
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: fake allyship and this whole facade of being nice and
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: friendly starts to unravel when Soriah very rightfully says like,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: this is my home. It's actually for me to decide
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: if you get to stay here. And I say that
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: you can, but you need to acknowledge that this is
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: a stolen house. This is my house and you stole it,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and this woman cannot do it. And she just says
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: nine to one one and she calls the cops instead.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: Well, which is like such a widely applicable message too,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: because it's like in the US, how many white families
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: are descended from thieves. Yeah, it's just she has big
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: black square on Instagram energy where she wants to be
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: perceived as doing the right thing, but when it comes
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: to a personal action, she is like horrified to even
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: be asked, Like I thought that I don't know who
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: the actor was, but just how flippant she was where
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: she was like, well, of course not and if you try,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: it's not going to work. And she's like juicing an
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: orange and it's just like walking past her and is
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: just so it seems like annoyed that Soriah would even
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: ask a question.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: She did not expect her to be as headstrong as
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: she is.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Right, and I feel like that's so so like it's
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: a very liberal attitude. And now I'm projecting because I
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: am like projecting this onto a lot of attitudes around
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: the California fires right now. But you know, just the
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: idea that like you should be grateful I let you inside.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: How dare you ask me a follow up question? How
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: dare you ask me a valid question? How dare you
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: say that this is actually yours when that is the truth.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: And it's just like, well, the open door should have
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: been satisfactory. And if you irritate me from here on out,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: I will be contacting the authorities. You're just like sink
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: into the ground, sink into the core of the earth.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Like it's just so, yeah, it's great representation of Allyship
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: that is very performative and only exists as long as
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: it's convenient for them. But they would never admit their
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: participation and complicity in, you know, the occupation and apartheid
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: that Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians. And as soon
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: as she's asked to do that, she just like can't
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: even admit that she's on stolen land and she freaks
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: the fuck out. And yeah, that's what we see time
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: and time again with this kind of brand of Zionism.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Also, like to go back to Jamie's original point about
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: seeing the levels of evilness. I think this is part
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: of the frustration I have with specifically liberal Zionists. Like
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: net Yaho's a monster, we can all agree on that,
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: but evil comes in all shapes and forms, and.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: It's not so there's a spectrum.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and real allyship, and like, if you're gonna fight
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: alongside people, you need to learn to recognize that. And
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: you can give people some level of grace as they
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: learn and unlearn things, but yeah, but you have to
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: recognize at some point that they could be really nice
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: to you to your face, say the right things, but
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: don't actually do the right things.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this movie does a really good job
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: of showing that's spectrum where, you know, you have a
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of scenes where Soria is either at the airport
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: or at the bank or some you know, interacting with
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: some IOF person and they are being openly hateful and
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: racist and antagonistic. And then you have this other version
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: of it with this you know woman who's living in
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: this stolen home. Then you have that teacher who comes
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: in at the end who's regurgitating the Zionist lie that
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: this land was empty and barren. We didn't steal it
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: from anyone, It was just here waiting for us. Then
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: you have the guy at the passport office who says
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: that he agrees with Soria and he's on her side,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: but he's still denying her important documentation and he is
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: helping to uphold Zionist values via bureaucracy. So we see
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: all of these examples and different degrees of op Prussian
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: and systemic racism, and I think the movie does a
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: good job of showing that there are different versions of this,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: but it's all under the same umbrella of Zionism and
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: apartheid and occupation.
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: One of the IOF or customs agents in the airport.
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: I can't remember exactly what they say first, but when
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: they're like asking her all these questions and they go,
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: it's for your safety, and it's like, but you know
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: it's not.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah no, that opening scene and also just how many
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: times that opening scene is HARKing back to it and
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: seeing Soria feel more and more empowered to be like,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: fuck you, I am allowed to be here. It's so
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: frustrating to see those scenes where you know Sria shows
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: up and like she knows what she's in for, but
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: like experiencing it is very different. And I feel like,
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: especially her and Emod with this ongoing battle with getting
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: his visa to Canada approved, the thing that brings them
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: both into like we're not going to hurt anybody, but
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: we are going to get this money that I feel
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: like is so frequently ignored in a lot of situations
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: is both of them try every quote unquote like respectable
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: way to get this done. But the system has been
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: designed to deny them and designed to trap them, and
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: design to keep them apart from either their homeland or
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: from where they're trying to go, just from freedom in general.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: And I do appreciate that even though it's I mean
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: especially I think of like young people watching this is
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: like they both do everything they can in terms of
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: like this is how you accomplish this, but it's you know,
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: a mod's fourth time being rejected to do it in
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: the quote unquote correct way. Soriah's doing everything she can
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: in the two weeks she's been provided and is being
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: shut down in this very polite like shrud sorry, nothing
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: I can do. So when they arrive at like we
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: are just going to take what's ours, it's impossible not
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: to be on their side, Like it's just yeah.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: And this is so honest to the actual situation. I
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: assume a lot of your listenership already knows about what's
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: going on, But there are some really great documentaries out
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: there that just support this point, one of them being
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: Between Two Crossings about a young woman who gets accepted
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: into college and she lives in Gaza and she can't
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: get through either border and she hasks like all the
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: paperwork that goes into that, and the systems are Yeah,
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: even if someone doesn't believe that, like like if they
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: believe that, you know, the two Postinian territories, Gaza and
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: the West Bank are you know, they're not technically under
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: occupation whatever. The limitations of movement and the hoops people
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: have to jump through that they can't actually get through
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: is really heartbreaking and it never gets less impactful when
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: you see it on film, whether a fiction or documentary.
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: And it's the way that Israel controls everything. They control
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: the movement of everything into and out of these territories,
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: including the people. There's a really great film called two
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: hundred Meters from a couple of years ago about a
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: man who his wife has Israeli like residency or whatever
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: it's called. She's Palestinian, but she's part of the forty
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: eight and he does not. So she chooses to live
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: in what is technically Israel because their kids can go
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: to a better school, and he lives two hundred meters
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: away on the other side, and he can only get
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: through to see them when he has a work permit,
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: and sort of similarly robbing the bank. He's in a
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: situation where his child's in the hospital, so he'll do
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: anything possible to cross that border. But this is like,
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: it's not some sort of crazy fiction. It is just
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: the actual lived reality of a lot of people.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: And then it goes without saying that the current reality
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: in Gaza is a holocaust that as we are recording
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: this episode, it's like the day that the ceasefire deal
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: was announced and we're waiting to see what is actually
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: going to be the result of that, if you know,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the occupying state that is Israel is going to honor
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: that because they have a history of you know not
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: and still bombing in massacring people, and so yeah, just
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: to provide context to our listeners as far as like
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: what's going on in the world right now. As we
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: are recording this episode and discussing this movie.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: I feel like I keep like we keep talking so
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: much about like the real life politics that feed into
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: this movie, which is so important. But I feel like
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: part of it is because it's hard to because we're
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: in this moment where we're a Palatins top of mind,
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: it's hard to not talk about their reality, for sure. Yeah,
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: but I do something I do love about this movie.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: We've talked like about a lot of the heavy stuff,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: but it also is so sweet and funny. HM and
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: Emory does really does a good job at balancing that
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: and not just making something that could feel like tragedy porn.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, like we're I think, like again a less
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: thoughtful movie and also a movie not from a palace.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: Dan director would have probably harped on certain character elements
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: or I feel like, as is so often in movies
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: that skew towards tragedy porn, just not really write a character, yeah,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: and just define sort of this void like character by
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: their trauma specifically, like they've got jokes, they're funny, like,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: and I just I don't know. I really do like
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: the relationship between Sarah and Ahmad, where Ahmad can like
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: loosen up around her a little bit, he can have
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: some fun with her, and that she you know, in
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: a way that like they're learning from each other in
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: a way that doesn't feel the way that you see
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: a lot of hetero relationships presented of like he really
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: showed her how the world works, but like that's that's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: not how this works.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I mean a uh Titanic with Jack being like here, Rose,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: let me show you exactly.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it could have one gun down that route. M H.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: What I especially appreciate is that their love story, whether
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: it's like the platonic friendship at first, and then it
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't even see them kiss on the lips,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: like he kind of nuzzles her and like kisses around
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: the neck a little bit. But you're like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: there's no like big like scene where the camera was
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: swirling around them as they kiss passionately.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, capital M make capital L love.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing like that.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: No love in basketball virgility scene.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that the like interpersonal romantic love story doesn't
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: overpower the larger story, which is like a love letter
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: to Palestine. It's like the characters loving their home and
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: soriah reconnecting with her homeland, and like that's that's the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: real story. And then this you know, relationship that blossoms
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: is a fringe benefit of that and like a subplot narratively,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I like the balance of all of that.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: And then to the point of like the moments of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: levity and joy that you see a few that really
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: stuck out to me, where the scene where Emma takes
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: soria to his home and he's like come in and
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: she's like, nah, oh it's okay, and then his comes
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: out and she's like, oh, my son's so rude, he
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: has no tact. He didn't even invite you in. He's like,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: yeah I did, and she's like shut up. And then
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: she brings Soriah inside and she's telling them like the
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: family history of oh, this is where my grandfather was born,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: this is where my parents grew up, this is where
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I grew up.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: And the whole family is there, which I there cool,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: like it's like meeting the parents, but like the whole
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: family's there. She barely knows.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: This man, right, Yeah, she just like talked to him
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: for the first time earlier today. She's you know, at
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: this family home, and then his mom says, welcome to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: your country, and I was just like, oh, it like
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: rocked me to my core.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: This like harkens back to a very specific relationship, but
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: definitely like I feel like she has been including with
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Immad at this point, been made to feel like an
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: outsider many many times by Israeli and Palestinian characters at
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: this point, and it's Iman's mother who was the first
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: person that is just so openly welcoming and happy that
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: she's there. And I feel like that she did her
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: son a huge favor in that department of like, okay,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: if this is your mom, you're probably an alright guy.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: And yeah, even though she doesn't come back, I just
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: thought that that was so lovely because at that point,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: you know, we've been with Soriah feeling so confused and displaced,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: you know, since moment one of the movie and clearly before,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: and just seeing someone like welcome her with open arms
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: was so so nice.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I really was.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: I wanted to touch on just in terms of like
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: the specific because I know it's like, it's very it
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: feels impossible to not project twenty twenty five onto this
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: movie now. But I did want to go back to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: how this movie was received at the time, because I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: honestly was like, any answer wouldn't shock me. I don't know.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: It was, you know, over fifteen years ago now, and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: I I guess as expected, the critical reception at the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: time in the West was mixed in a way that
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: I thought was like very telling. This has a Rotten
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Tomatoes rating, which makes no fucking what sense. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: I mean a lot of these reviews are quite literally
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: so old that you can't even read them anymore. But
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: the two reviews I was able to access were on
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: NPR and Slant they were both very like. Basically both
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: of the reviews boiled down to this movie is histrionic
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: and over dramatic, which is just so absurd from the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: first movie directed by a Palestinian woman. To receive it
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: like that in the US is just so ridiculous. But
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: I wanted to specifically single out. There is a quote
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: in the NPR interview that is just so telling of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: like where this film critic is coming from, where he
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: refers to Okay, in a fit of supreme frustration, she
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Soria convinces them to help her rob the bank for
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: the three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds owed to her
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: as her grandfather's heir, plus more than sixty years interest.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: When the clumsily orchestrated heyst is over, they go on
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: the run to Tel Aviv so that she may see
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: her grandfather's old house. It comes as no surprise when
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: she picks a fight with the kind and sympathetic young
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: Israeli who now owns it. And so it's just like wrong. Yeah,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: I'll keep going because this review really really frustrated me.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: But I feel like does clearly put us in a
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: moment in time in American criticism, write director and Marigeous
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: here in her first film, is determined to make important
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: statements through her protagonists, which is what makes Soriah so uncompromising. Unfortunately,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: it also makes her less of a character. She often
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: seems little more than a mouthpiece for history lessons on
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: the injustices perpetrated on the Palestinian people. So it's just
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Most of the reviews are not only
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: expectedly written by men, but they're written by white American men.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: That just I mean. And I know we've talked about
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: this on the show in the case of so many
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: movies over the years, but this just felt like a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: really glaring one of just clearly like this movie wasn't
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: made for me, and so it's hysterical and.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: It's yeah, yeah, I see it a lot with Arab
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: films in general up into this day. People think a
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: film is bad because they don't get it, because they
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: lack context, or it's not made for them, it does
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: not hold their hand through it. Like sure, Soraya is
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: hard headed. I would find myself sometimes being like, no,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: you're gonna get yourself in trouble with the way she
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: would speak to people. But it doesn't make her not
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: a character like it is part of her characters, It is.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Part of literally and you get why she's behaving that way.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: She's very justified.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: As like an Arab too. Like I just like get
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: nervous for her when she because she's so outspoken and
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: so confident that she's right, and I am so scared
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: that someone's going to shoot her.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, Like her safety is at stake
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: in this context, and yeah, you do, you certainly fear
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: for her, but you also admire her for like I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: there's a scene where I mean, and again, there's so
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: many scenes where she's interfacing with someone who is like
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: enforcing this red tape that is not allowing her to
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: you know, get the passport she's entitled to, or get
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: the money out of the bank that she's entitled to,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: or you know, do all these things. You know, it's
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: this oppressive force that is designed to withhold things from
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: her that she's entitled to. So all this is it.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: There's a bunch of scenes like that where she's always
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: just like what the fun this is bullshit? She's calling
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: it out every step of the way. And then there
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: was one that I especially enjoyed it. I think it's
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: when she's crossing back into the West Bank after she
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: went on her like shopping spree of like getting disguises
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: for the for the quote unquote robbery, and the occupier
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: guy is like, hey, no tourists allowed. You can't go here,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: and she's like, well, where are you from. She's basically
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: implying like you're a tourist, Like, where's your family from?
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: You haven't been here this whole time. My family and
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: my people have been here this whole time. And it's
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: just it's many situations like that where she's always pushing back.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: She's not afraid to call out injustices when she sees them,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: but it does make you like fearful for her safety.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes page right now,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: and Ella Taylor for the Village Boyce refers to her
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: as a spoiled princess.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thankfully that link. If you click the link to
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: see more. They're like, we've never heard of this review
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: because it's so like the one poll quote.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: You're like, oh, okay, idiot, Yeah, it's too bad. But luckily,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: I think audiences, especially now can see past that, and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: the film has had a staying power that these Western
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: critics couldn't suppress.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, for our listeners who if you're listening
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: to this episode and you haven't watched the movie, I
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: highly recommend that you do again. Like Jamie said, is
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: very accessible, at least in the US, if you have
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: access to Canopy, which you can get if you have
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: a public library card.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: You should have any you should have one.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: Unless you live in New York City, then you don't
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: have Canopy.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: But but yes, I know that's one of the few places, right.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: They used to but they don't anymore.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: Mister Adams said no more.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: I think if pre dated Adams really wow. Yeah, so
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: I'd love to put the blame on him regardless, I.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: Guess I took. I took the path of please resistance.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: If you need a Canopy log in, yes, Mina, I
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: I got you. Yeah, I might.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: I should have asked you earlier because I so. I
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: will say for audience members who don't have Canopy, there
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: are two other places to access it that are not
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: going to give your computer a virus. Unfortunately, right now,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: neither of them have English subtitles, and the film has
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: large portions in English, but is predominantly in Arabic. That
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: bothered me, and I'm going to see if I can
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: figure out how we can get them some SRT files.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: But if you are part of Solidarity Cinema, which I
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: highly highly recommend, you just join a Google group and
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: you have access to hundreds of really amazing rare films,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: including Salt of the Sea. It is also on the
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: Palestine Film Index, which is a wonderful document put together
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: by a number of volunteers over the last year just
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: noting Palestinian films. Not every film on there has a
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: direct link to watch, but if you the listener, are
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: interested in exploring more Palestinian films specifically, or I should
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: say films that deal with the Israeli occupation because some
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: of them are also from Lebanon and Syria. That is
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: an amazing resource even just to find out what some
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: of the titles and the filmmakers might be. But it
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: also has some links to some things that are otherwise
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: pretty rare. But yeah, we'll see about getting some English
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: subtitles on those things. I found it on Okay dot Rue,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: but I would not recommend that.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, we've all done it. I did it
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: last I forget why I did it. We will link
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: those because yeah, I follow the Solidarity Cinema letterbox list
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: like they have a very very accessible presence, So we'll
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: link to that in the description.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: And I'll just say this that, like I used to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: work in film distribution, I am all for, especially for
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: indie filmmakers, international filmmakers. Whenever you can give them the
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: money that they deserve and rent the film or stream
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: the film or buy the DVD, I think you should.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: But unfortunately so many international films, especially older ones, are
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: not even given that chance, which case, resources like these
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: are so incredibly important to basically archiving and making these
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: films accessible, So nobody say anything about piracy in the
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: show comments. I swear to God, there's a lot of
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: things that I even as a film programmer, there's lots
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: of things I would never be able to show or
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: review myself with how resources like solid Ar Cinema and
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: House and Film Index.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, as you mentioned at the top of the episode,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: you provided a list of a bunch of options of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: movies you would like to cover with us, and several
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: of them, just like are not available to stream anywhere.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: You can't buy them. There was no way.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what is the name of the movie that summer.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: Farah also suggested that we wanted to cover with her,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: and then we couldn't. And then yes, Mida you suggested it,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: and we still couldn't because we couldn't find it.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: Probably I'm going to guess it was Amrika.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the one.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, Well, so that film. Everyone should keep an
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: eye out for it because hopefully it'll come back soon.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: The director just got the rights back.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, oh, wonderful.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: Because the thing that happens to demystify some more of
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: the industry for listeners is, please, films have rights holders,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: and the best way for them to be seen in
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: the US is to have a US distributor who is
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: then the regional rights holder, and those deals usually last
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: about ten years. So a lot of times when things
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: suddenly disappear from the Internet, it's just that the rights
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: expired and for whatever reason, that company doesn't hold them anymore,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: and they're probably just back with the filmmaker who doesn't
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: have the means, whether financially or just the time or
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: the interest in getting it up on vod platforms or whatever. Yeah,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: Amrika's I think one of those films that just the
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: licensing ended or sometimes if a company goes under, it
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: just kind of gets lost and it doesn't always easily
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: revert back to the filmmaker. It sucks. The industry is
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: a mess.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Amrika's an amazing film by Sharen Doabs, who has
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: a new movie at Sundance and also Oho like directs
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: some television and another pest in American filmmaker to watch
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: out for since we're talking about her. Hell yeah, but
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: hopefully in the future you can talk about that film someday.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I'm also going to see if any of these movies
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: you suggested, especially for the ones that aren't on the
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Palestine Film Index or that like don't have accessibility to
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: watch streaming, if they're available on DVD, I'll check that out,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: because look, I love a DVD.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: eBay is another great resource for finding especially if they
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: did have US distribution. At one point, which a film
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: I suggested that I absolutely love and highly recommend is
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: Caramel by Nadine Labaki. I have the DVD and I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: think it was like lions Gate or Sony Pictures Classic
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: or something.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: But cool.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the rights must have the contract must have ended.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: It happened with that and with Crossroads famously.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yes, two great films.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Equal quality. Definitely. Does anyone have anything else they'd like
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: to discuss regarding Salt of the Sea or anything really
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: or anything.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: I would love to soapbox for a quick minute. I
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: know we're running short on time, but I just you know,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: if it hasn't come across clearly by now. I'm very
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: passionate about Arab cinema, and I think a lot of
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: people listening, especially those who are from America, probably don't
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: even recognize what kind of anti Arab biases that they hold.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: And I really encourage everyone to speak out international cinema
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: in general, but consider adding some Arab cinema onto your letterbox,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: watch lists, and if you want to try to unlearn
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: some of these biases or learn why, you know, even
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: if you are supportive an allied, you know, not an
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: overt racist, you might hold some biases that you don't
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: even realize. A great resource to kind of starting to
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: unpack how the media affects where these come from is
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: a book, book, and connected documentary called Real Bad Arabs,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: Real Being Are Double E L subtitle How Hollywood Villifies
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: the people They're both by Jack Shaheen. I have a
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: copy of it above me here. He's really really incredible,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: and the book just goes through I believe it's like
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: a thousand American films and points out all of the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 4: anti Arab stereotypes, and the documentary does it more generally
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: talking about these things. And if anyone listening thinks that
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: this is all a post nine to eleven thing, it
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: is not. It's been going on a really long time,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: specifically about Palestinians too. The sort of Arabs as terrorist
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: trope was specifically Palestinians as terrorists for a long long time.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: And I just get really frustrated when even folks I
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 4: know in the industry they'll be like, oh, you you
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: know work in Arab cinema. Oh I love this Aronia director.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: And then I have to be like, you're on Newscasion,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 4: it's not Arab. You've never seen an Arab film, have you?
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: So I just I would love if more people watched
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: our stuff. And part of the reason I brought up
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: some of the like comedy in the film too, is
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: because I think people are afraid of Arab cinema because
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: it can be very very heavy, but there's humor, there's romance,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: there's horror, there's sci fi, and I just I think
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: we get a bad rap. So that's what I want
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: to say before.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you for out saying that it's all very true.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, somehow my Instagram has become like a landing point
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: for a lot of people seeking out Arab cinema. So
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: people are welcome to follow me. It's my handle is
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: just yes Meina dot to wheel, so feel free to
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: follow me on Instagram. But I I have a couple
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: directions to send people. They're all linked on my Instagram.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: But on my website, I keep a Palestinian film calendar.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: It's specifically for New York City, but I do include
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: limited online screenings that are available throughout the US from
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: different sites and festivals and stuff like that. And on
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: that page, I have a list of resources of other
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: places to explore and learn about Palestinian cinema specifically, So
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 4: even if you're not in New York City and can't
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: come to any of the in person screenings listed, it's
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: a great jumping off point if you are in New
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: York City. I also do a screening series called Cinema Arabia.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: It's every other month at the Nighthawk Cinema in Williamsburg.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: There's a Cinema Arabia Instagram as well that you can
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: follow to keep up with it, and that series specifically
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: is to highlight lesser known or lesser shown Arab films
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: that I think deserve more attention and hopefully sort of
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: challenge and excite the curious cinephile. But also too, there
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: is the Arab Film and Media Institute, the Arab American
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 4: National Museum, MISNA, and RT East, which are like four
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: of the big Arab film and cultural organizations here in
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: the US. So I would check any of them out,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: though I'm not personally associated with any of them anymore,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: but they're all really great places to go. And then,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: oh then one more thing to promote. I no longer
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: specifically program in Arab cinema. I am the new film
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: programmer at BAM, so you will be seeing more for
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: anyone in the New York City area, you will be
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: seeing more Arab cinema in the BAM lineup, but not exclusively.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 4: My first program I will plug is at the end
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: last week of February and it is dedicated to counterculture
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: pioneers from the Middle East. So if you want to
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: learn about the first hip hop group in Palace Sign
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: or the first all female thrash metal band from Lebanon,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: or the first professional skateboarder from Morocco. That'll be the
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: last week in February, and then in general, I encourage
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: you to come see some movies at the Brooklyn Academy
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: of Music.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: This is wonderful, I mean, because it's frustrating on our
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: end to have so many great options for movies to
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: want to cover and then have to kind of go with.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, we lucked out here because alt of this
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: is incredible, but for the access to be so limited,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: it is frustrating.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: It's very frustrating.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I can't imagine like what your day
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: to day is like, but I'm so grateful that you
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: are doing so much of the work to make Arab
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: cinnemon more accessible and we will yeah, continue to share
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: however we can be supportive of your work is what
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: we would love to do.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: I appreciate it. And if you ever want to talk
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: about non Arab cinema, I'm also down.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, come back, talk about whatever you.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: Want, whatever your favorite movies are. We're we're down for anything.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: We can talk about my favorite film of twenty twenty four,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: which is the Kneecap movie.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, that movie was so good, Katelyn, I
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: haven't seen it. Caitlin's side, Yeah.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: It rocks. It's so great. A movie that does not
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: pass the Bechdel test. But you know what movie does
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: pass the Bechdel test, Salt of this Sea. It is
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: mostly the conversation between Soriah and the Israeli woman. I mean,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: she does talk to her friend Krinn, and she talks
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: to Imad's mom. But this is an example of a
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: movie where it's like, even if it doesn't handily pass,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: or even if some of the conversations that pass are
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: like contentious, difficult conversations. As we've always said, the test
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: is a jumping off point and there is much else
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: to discuss. So to me, the more relevant metric is
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: the nipple scale of the famous spectral cast nipplescale, where
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think this
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: is such an important and moving movie. Wow, oh whoa
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: watch out world, I'm a poet. I think this is
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: just so terrifically done. And I think the way Soriah
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: the characters is represented in her journey of reconnecting with
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: her homeland and advocating for herself and advocating for her people,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: and the story just like being a love letter to
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Palestine and the connection she makes along the way, and
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: the thing she has to deal with along the way.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Like everything about this narrative is just so poignant and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: beautiful and heart wrenching and just so well done. I
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: feel like, I don't know why I wouldn't give it nipples.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: But what about Marjuan, Well, yeah, that's okay.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: That was something I wanted to talk because I Marwuan
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: and I'm a Marwan Truther. I love that guy. I
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: want to see his film. He reminded me of whatever
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: I was like middle schooler who was really into Rent,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: and he reminded me a lot of Mark from Rent,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: where you're like, he's making a movie.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: Is it good?
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: We're not sure, but he's really into it. And I
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: love a character like that. I do wish. I mean,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: just because it seems like we're introduced to Karne, I think,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: who's like a potential friend for Soriah at the beginning,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: but then she really only does seem to come into
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: contact with men for the remainder of the story outside
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: of this horrible Israeli woman. I just am like, if
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: I could be so nitpicky, I would love if we
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: just adjusted Marjuan a little bit and both, you know,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like it's like, it's not a gender
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: specific character. I would love to see like, especially coming
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: in you know, in the first widely distributed film by
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: a Palestinian women, see a woman filmmaker and maybe not
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: have her cozy up with the Israeli antagonists that the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: guy from NPR loved. Yeah, that's my hyper that's my
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: little little thing because I wish that there had been more.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: Even though we see women allies for Soriah, we don't
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: really get to know any of them. I mean, even
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: like getting to know the mother better, who made her
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: feel so welcomer. It felt like a lot of the
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: women characters who weren't soah were a little bit like
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: very in and out of the story. But that's very nitpicky.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: I do think it was like a little weird the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: way Karen is introduced and then never seen again.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Where what was her deal in the bank when they're
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: taking the money back? We like get a cut to
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: this woman who looked just like her, But I'm like,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's her. If I just like
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: am having a facial recognition problem.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 4: I don't remember. But it could have been a little
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 4: easter egg because Soraya is completely covered in an obeya,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 4: so she wouldn't have recognized her, And that could have
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: been a fun poke by the director to be like
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: someone she knows who could rat her out effectively.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Who could recognize her doesn't right.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: That would have been fun.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the intention. I think we cut
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: to like a shot of Krinn. I think I don't know.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: Karin is in and out so fast. You could show
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: me a picture of her right now and I would
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: have no idea who she was.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, there's not sure what her deal is, but
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: best of luck or goodbye.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It just seemed like so weird to introduce what
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: was set up to be an important character and then
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: she just never shows up again. So yeah, but it
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: is nitpicky because ultimately I think the story doesn't necessarily
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: need Kurin nor.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: I think even so, Yeah, I'm gonna stick with five nipples.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: I think this is just such an important movie recommend
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: everyone watch it, and yeah, five nipples. I'll give them
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: to a Mari Jaesser and Sarah the character, as well
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: as Suher Hamad the actor.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: I'll go four and have off of our our researent discussion.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: But I mean even with I mean, I think Soria
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: is such a strong central character. I love that she
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: pulls both from the actor's experience and from the writing
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: and directing ability. And I just I don't know, I
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: love this movie. I really wish slash hope. I feel
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: like this is the kind of movie that should be
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: shown in like schools. And I mean this in the
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: most positive way. It reminds me of the kinds of
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: movies you would watch in history class, but it's an
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: area of history that American public schools take no interest
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: in whatsoever. But I think it would really resonate. I mean,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: and like you were saying earlier, yes, you know it
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: can resonate with everyone, but I think also does a
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: very subtle and thoughtful job of just illustrating an everyday
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: person's predicament. So yeah, I think it's wonderful. I'll go
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: four and a half nipples. I guess I'm going to
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: give three. Damn Mary Jasser. Oh gosh, really difficult decisions
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: to make here. I will give one to Sahar Hamad.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: I will give one two. Oh my gosh, wait where
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: we see this Wikipedia page?
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: For what it's worth. Sucks.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: They don't even have a cast list, and I'm just like,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: how am I supposed to?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: I will say, I was like trying to look up
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: the character the Israeli woman's name, and I could not
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: figure it out.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think she's listed like on IMDb.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they've got like even on like you know the
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: way like Google will show you like the top cast
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: when you look up a film. They have like the
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: cat collar before they have her.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: Okay, I think one, my fourth will go to Salah Bakhry,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: and then my last half nipples. I think I want
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: to bring up a while ago, one of my favorite
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: movie tropes in the world someone wearing a T shirt
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: with just the name of where they came from. So
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give my last half nipple to Soria's
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: shirt that just says Brooklyn. I love that movie trope
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: Between that and her accent, there is no question You're like,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: we get it. She's from Brooklyn.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: Yasmina how about you.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: I would also give it four and a half nipples
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 4: for the same reasoning Jamie had so disappointed in Marijuan.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: Mostly I wish uh tisk I think he deserved better.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I would like to give them all to Stella.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: That's it. Maybe to the whole Bakra family, even the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: ones who are not in it. Sorry, but this is
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: this is not very bechdel cast of me to give
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: it all to men, but men, just.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: To multiple generations of men. This did maybe want to
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: see her her most recent feature with Sala Bucky and
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: his Father, though, I.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: Mean like it, just that one. It sounds great, truly
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: impossible to find online. If I find a copy, I'll
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: send it to you.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: But yeah, let us let us know.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: It's been kind of heartbreaking because her other films have
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 4: been on and off accessible, but that one. I don't
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: know what the deal is, so damn.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, keep his posted, and thank you so much for
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: coming on the show like this. This has been so wonderful.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Of course I've been I've been
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: waiting for the call, so I'm so delighted to be here.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: Where can listeners follow you online and follow your work?
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so my handles on every everything are my name, Yes,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: Mina to wheel. My website is Yesmina dashtowheel dot com.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: It has all the events that I have coming up,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: whether it's through BAM or Nighthawk or somewhere else, as
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 4: well as the Polsinian film calendar. I think that's it,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 4: or you know, I don't know. Go to the BAM
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 4: website look at what's coming up next. Yeah.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: If you live in New York, go to the screenings
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: and we'll buck you the next time we're there. Yeah,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: we will, Yes, please. You can follow us on Instagram
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon, where
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: you get two bonus episodes every month, plus access to
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: the back catalog, all for five dollars a month. At
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: If you haven't gotten tickets, you can we sell tickets
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: available to our San fond discussion next week January twenty third,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: or we'll be talking about Titanic. Ever heard of it?
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, get our birch at teapublic dot com slash
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: the Bechdel Cast. If you're so inclined with that, Let's
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: rob a bank. Let's rob a bank.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, take back, What's ours exactly? Yeah, Bye Bye. The
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan
• 1:32:22
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• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:32:31
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• 1:32:35
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