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How to Understand and Support Your Sensitive Daughter · Raising Daughters

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to Raising Daughters, the podcast that helps parents learn
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Speaker 1: the best ways to support their daughters as they navigate
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Speaker 1: the high levels of stress, anxiety, pressure, and uncertainties so
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Speaker 1: pervasive in our culture today. Doctor Tim Jordan is a
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Speaker 1: developmental and behavioral pediatrician who has specialized in counseling girls
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Speaker 1: for over thirty years and shed's light on the realities
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Speaker 1: of today's young women in all facets of their lives.
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Speaker 1: This is your opportunity to learn how to better support
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Speaker 1: your daughters, making them feel safe, secure, and truly loved
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Speaker 1: in the midst of life's ups and downs. Here is
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Speaker 1: your host, Doctor Tim.
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Speaker 2: Hello friends, doctor Tim Jordan, back here with you with
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Speaker 2: a brand new podcast. As you know, I talk about
0:52
Speaker 2: things every week I have to do with Raising Daughters.
0:55
Speaker 2: I talk about what's going on for girls today. I
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Speaker 2: talk about some ideas I think that helps parents to
1:01
Speaker 2: support their girls and their growth, and so I oftentimes
1:04
Speaker 2: have guests, especially when there's a topic that I think
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Speaker 2: is interesting and needs more than what maybe I have
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Speaker 2: to offer. And as you know from lots of these podcasts,
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Speaker 2: I tend to attract in my counseling practice and my
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Speaker 2: retreats girls who are sensitive girls who are old souls.
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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of kids who are that
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Speaker 2: way get misunderstood, and I think they get labeled with
1:26
Speaker 2: all kinds of things like being oppositional, or being on
1:31
Speaker 2: the spectrum, or having anxiety disorders, or being too sensitive,
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Speaker 2: being weak. We try and get kids to toughen up
1:39
Speaker 2: in this day and age, especially probably if you have
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Speaker 2: a boy, even more so for them. So I wanted
1:44
Speaker 2: to talk about this subject because I think a lot
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Speaker 2: of parents sometimes don't know how to approach their kids
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Speaker 2: because you may not be that way. So I ask
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Speaker 2: a psychiatrist after Judith Orloff to join us today. And
1:56
Speaker 2: by the way, welcome to Raising Daughters.
1:59
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. Well. Good.
2:03
Speaker 2: Doctor Orloff is a psychiatrist on the staff at UCLA
2:07
Speaker 2: and she's a best selling author. She's done lots of writing.
2:10
Speaker 2: She still works in supervisors psychic residents at UCLA. She
2:14
Speaker 2: sees her own patients. She offers empathy training programs to
2:18
Speaker 2: businesses and organizations like Google Talks and Google Summit and
2:22
Speaker 2: ted X all kinds of places. So she's very well
2:25
Speaker 2: known and she even got a recommendation for her book
2:29
Speaker 2: from the Dalai Lama. That's what really impressed me. And
2:33
Speaker 2: she has a recent book that just came out two
2:35
Speaker 2: weeks ago. It's actually written for kids. It's called The
2:38
Speaker 2: Highly Sensitive Rabbit. So we're going to talk about that
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Speaker 2: towards the end of this interview. But first, thanks so
2:42
Speaker 2: much for joining the show.
2:44
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
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Speaker 2: Did I miss anything important in your introduction.
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Speaker 3: I'm a psychiatrist, I'm an EmPATH. I combine traditional medicine
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Speaker 3: with intuition and empathy training, so I kind of combine.
3:03
Speaker 3: I'm a bridge between worlds, and I love that we
3:06
Speaker 3: don't have to just be one way or another as clinicians,
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Speaker 3: you know. I want to get all of the techniques
3:13
Speaker 3: that I can tune into in this world and apply
3:16
Speaker 3: it to help people.
3:19
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about your new book for kids
3:21
Speaker 2: towards the endpact, but there's a book of yours that
3:23
Speaker 2: came out several years ago that I read that I
3:26
Speaker 2: really liked about sensitive kids. It's so I want to
3:32
Speaker 2: ask you first what is an EmPATH because a lot
3:34
Speaker 2: of times I think just defining that is kind of tough.
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Speaker 3: An EmPATH is somebody who is very intuitive and open
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Speaker 3: and caring about the world, but they tend to be
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Speaker 3: emotional sponges and take on the stress and the negativity
3:52
Speaker 3: in the world until they learn certain skills, certain skills
3:57
Speaker 3: to be able to center themselves, to not absorb everything,
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Speaker 3: to not feel as their job to help every person
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Speaker 3: that comes along, because EmPATH often feel that way.
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Speaker 2: A lot of those kids too get overloaded a lot,
4:08
Speaker 2: don't they, which is why I think sometimes they show
4:11
Speaker 2: us symptoms that we start to label, diagnose and medicate whatever.
4:16
Speaker 2: But I think oftentimes we're just we're kind of misdiagnosing.
4:21
Speaker 3: Oh yes, that's the problem with not having the terminology
4:25
Speaker 3: for an EmPATH because many a psychiatrists, I don't think
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Speaker 3: this is a travesty. Misdiagnosed empaths and highly sensitive people
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Speaker 3: as generalized anxiety disorder, depression, even psychosis. So these are
4:41
Speaker 3: not relevant diagnoses because if you are an EmPATH, you
4:45
Speaker 3: need to know what to do. And in the EmPATH
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Speaker 3: Survival Guide, the first book I wrote on the Foundation
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Speaker 3: of being an EmPATH, I have a twenty question self
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Speaker 3: assessment tests there that anyone could take to find out
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Speaker 3: if they're an EmPATH and how much of an impath
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Speaker 3: they are. Because if you do find that out about
5:03
Speaker 3: yourself or your child, you know you're going to need to,
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Speaker 3: you know, get certain advice in certain strategies in order
5:11
Speaker 3: to not absorb this stress in the world and how
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Speaker 3: to calm down when you feel overwhelmed and like you're
5:19
Speaker 3: taking on too much.
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Speaker 2: I think what they take on is all kinds of things, right,
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Speaker 2: isn't that Yeah? To describe some of the things and
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Speaker 2: that some of those kids and adults taken, it's hard
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Speaker 2: for them to shields.
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Speaker 3: It's very hard. But they don't know to shield. They're
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Speaker 3: not even told. And so the first step is you're
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Speaker 3: a sensitive person and sometimes you might take on too much,
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Speaker 3: and this is what you do about it. And shielding
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Speaker 3: is one of those things where you visualize a beautiful
5:51
Speaker 3: shield all around you so that any kind of negativity
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Speaker 3: or bad energy can't get in to your body. You
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Speaker 3: don't want to absorb it in your body, and it
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Speaker 3: doesn't make you a more compassionate person to take on
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Speaker 3: other people's emotions, as I think what girls and boys
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Speaker 3: who are empaths tend to do is absorb the pain
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Speaker 3: of other people. It could be their parents' pain, and
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Speaker 3: they take on the role of the therapist, or it
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Speaker 3: could be at school and something's going on at school,
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Speaker 3: or if somebody a child is being bullied, they take
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Speaker 3: it on. They actually feel like I would actually feel
6:31
Speaker 3: your pain if you are going through that. Yeah, And
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Speaker 3: so it's very different than a non EmPATH. I'm not
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Speaker 3: saying that empaths are better than non empaths at all.
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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that there is
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Speaker 3: something called an EmPATH, and if you are one, you
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Speaker 3: need to know about it.
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Speaker 2: I imagine too when sometimes when kids are little, they may
6:52
Speaker 2: sense like their parents like, they may sense moms said,
6:55
Speaker 2: and they may say, Mommy, what's wrong or you said?
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Speaker 2: And their mom might say things like I'm fine and
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Speaker 2: maybe maybe not validate what they're feeling. And then they
7:04
Speaker 2: probably start to question, is you know why am I
7:07
Speaker 2: Why am I feeling this?
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Speaker 3: Then? Yeah, then they get very confused. They get very confused.
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Speaker 3: And I was a highly sensitive child. My parents, who
7:15
Speaker 3: are both physicians, were very linear and logical and rational,
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Speaker 3: and you know, I was a little girl who would
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Speaker 3: sense things or get overloaded in shopping malls. I couldn't
7:26
Speaker 3: go into shopping malls because I'd get overloaded and exhausted
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Speaker 3: or depressed or something I wasn't before I went in.
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Speaker 3: And so they said, you know, you just have too
7:37
Speaker 3: much sensitivity. You need a thicker skin. You're overly sensitive.
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Speaker 3: What's wrong with you? Why can't you tough en up?
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Speaker 3: And so I grew up believing that there was a
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Speaker 3: shame in being so sensitive and a cry baby. And
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Speaker 3: so that's why I wanted to write the book Highly
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Speaker 3: Sensitive Rebbit, to show all those sensitive kids out there
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Speaker 3: that they're okay, that there's nothing wrong with you. There's
8:03
Speaker 3: something very right with you. And I wish I had
8:06
Speaker 3: that message as a kid. I wish I had somebody
8:09
Speaker 3: tell me that, and I had nobody. I was an
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Speaker 3: only child and nobody knew about this back then, so
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Speaker 3: I was pretty much on my own.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking with doctor Judith Orloff. Orloff. She's a
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Speaker 2: psychiatrist and the staff at UCLA, and she's a EmPATH
8:27
Speaker 2: and she's also a writer. She's written several books, The EmPATH,
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Speaker 2: EmPATH Survival Guide, Life Strategies for Sensitive People. In her
8:35
Speaker 2: brand new book, which is actually written for kids, called
8:39
Speaker 2: The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, I also find a lot of
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Speaker 2: these kids they take on so much of other people's emotions,
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Speaker 2: and sometimes what happens the girls who I work with
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Speaker 2: is it's hard for them to figure out what's mine
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Speaker 2: and what's theirs.
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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's very common, and so it's important that
9:00
Speaker 3: that you can talk to the girls and say, just
9:02
Speaker 3: notice what's happening in your body when you're around somebody,
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Speaker 3: Notice your baseline feeling. They have to be trained to
9:09
Speaker 3: listen to their bodies, and this is if they always
9:12
Speaker 3: are trained to do that. But how do you feel?
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Speaker 3: Does your energy go up around somebody? Does it go down?
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Speaker 3: Do you feel comfortable? Do feel like you're not comfortable
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Speaker 3: for whatever reasons? How are you feeling around this person?
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Speaker 3: And if your energy is going down, are you absorbing
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Speaker 3: what they're telling you. Let's say you have a friend
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Speaker 3: who's really upset and it's just going on and on
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Speaker 3: and on, and you don't know how to set a boundary,
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Speaker 3: and so you sit there listening for a half hour,
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Speaker 3: and after that conversation, you might feel sick, you might
9:43
Speaker 3: feel exhausted, you might just feel discombobulated. And so that's
9:49
Speaker 3: important that you notice that how you feel around certain
9:52
Speaker 3: people and behaviors, so you could begin to set limits
9:55
Speaker 3: with them, like it's not okay for somebody to go
9:58
Speaker 3: on and on and on about some thing unless you're
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Speaker 3: ready to listen, unless you have a consent in this
10:04
Speaker 3: as opposed to just dumping. And sometimes people just dump
10:08
Speaker 3: on you. They see a loving heart and they just
10:11
Speaker 3: tell all they just dump and then the person who
10:15
Speaker 3: gets dumped on feels awful.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I see a lot of those girls that they
10:21
Speaker 2: they're called the friends parent therapists because, like you say,
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Speaker 2: they're so many of them are mature, they're sensitive, they're empathetic,
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Speaker 2: they care deeply in lots of different ways, and people
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Speaker 2: notice that and they want to be helpful. It's a gift.
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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, sometimes it's too much. I'd
10:40
Speaker 2: see girls who were up half the night, you know,
10:43
Speaker 2: waiting for their friend who is suicidal to call, or
10:45
Speaker 2: a friend because if I'm not there for them, then
10:48
Speaker 2: they'll cut themselves or they'll do whatever. So they take
10:51
Speaker 2: on so much and they have a hard time. They
10:53
Speaker 2: have a hard time taking care of themselves.
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Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm. And that's the basis for being an EmPATH,
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Speaker 3: is to practice self care and learn how to calm
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Speaker 3: things down when you're getting overloaded. Noticing in your body
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Speaker 3: when things are coming at you too fast, because that's
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Speaker 3: very common. Sensory stimulation is intense for highly sensitive girls
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Speaker 3: and boys. It's very intense, and so when you feel
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Speaker 3: it building in your body, you have to think to yourself,
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Speaker 3: all right, I'm going to take a breath. The first
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Speaker 3: thing you must condition yourself to do is to breathe
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Speaker 3: and to calm down and to center yourself, and then
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Speaker 3: find a place of lower stimulation like a room, or
11:36
Speaker 3: you turn down the lights so you listen to nice
11:39
Speaker 3: music that could calm you, just to calm down the
11:43
Speaker 3: nervous system. That's important for sensitive people to learn.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just saw a grow my counseling practice yesterday
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Speaker 2: and she's I don't know, she's an mpath, but she's
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Speaker 2: very sensitive and she takes on a lot and when
11:59
Speaker 2: she comes from from school, she's on overload and she
12:02
Speaker 2: just needs some time, and her mom barages her with
12:06
Speaker 2: questions in the car ride home, and and so then
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Speaker 2: this girl shuts down because she just has nothing left
12:14
Speaker 2: and she's you know, needs some quiet space first, and
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Speaker 2: then her mom in terpresidas, oh my god, what's wrong
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Speaker 2: with you? So that she gets more worried than she
12:21
Speaker 2: asks more questions and they've been in this little dance
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Speaker 2: for a while, and I think, I think, I think
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Speaker 2: a lot of times parents don't appreciate the need for
12:28
Speaker 2: quiet time and the need for a lone time that
12:31
Speaker 2: at these kids need.
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Speaker 3: Oh yes, and that's so important. I mean, you, as
12:36
Speaker 3: her therapist can bring that up and you know, make
12:39
Speaker 3: it okay to have alone time, because sometimes parents feel
12:44
Speaker 3: that a child needs to be on the go all
12:46
Speaker 3: the time, or you know, wants to have playdates you know,
12:49
Speaker 3: a lot frequently, and when the highly sensitive girl might
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Speaker 3: want to go in her room and do some journaling
12:56
Speaker 3: or you know, maybe meditate or just think about things
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Speaker 3: is or listen to music, or look out at the nothing,
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Speaker 3: look out at the air, just stare in the space.
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Speaker 3: That's all okay, the girl needs that. And so many
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Speaker 3: creative people are highly sensitive and so they sort of
13:14
Speaker 3: have a creative temperament which is different than let's say,
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Speaker 3: a CEO temperament, and they need to have this connection
13:21
Speaker 3: with the silence. And if the parents are uncomfortable with silence,
13:26
Speaker 3: then this could be a problem. But oftentimes the highly
13:29
Speaker 3: sensitive person likes to have a little bit of quiet.
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Speaker 3: You know, likes to have a little you know, to themselves.
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Speaker 3: They want to be in their own space, with their
13:37
Speaker 3: own boundaries and to feel that. And that's important for
13:42
Speaker 3: those girls.
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Speaker 2: And there's also some other things that make it worse, right,
13:48
Speaker 2: like a lack of sleep, for instance, you listen to
13:50
Speaker 2: a bunch of these in your book, tell our listeners
13:52
Speaker 2: some other things that parents need to be careful of
13:56
Speaker 2: or teaching their daughters about self care.
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Speaker 3: Oh well, just learning to express your needs and to
14:05
Speaker 3: just quiet down the environment, that is probably the most
14:10
Speaker 3: important thing. And to get a good night's sleep is
14:13
Speaker 3: so essential because if girls are not sleeping well, then
14:18
Speaker 3: you know they are already on edge and about to
14:22
Speaker 3: lose their center. Because it's important good nice sleep, eat
14:26
Speaker 3: good food. Don't load themselves up with sugar. If possible,
14:29
Speaker 3: if you have control over that, you know, to have
14:32
Speaker 3: them eat a good diet. That's grounding and to be
14:37
Speaker 3: able to say, I need to do this now, I
14:39
Speaker 3: can express my needs. I need to go to the library.
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Speaker 3: I want to go to the library and read, I
14:44
Speaker 3: want to research, or whatever they want to do. Instead
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Speaker 3: of sending them out to a party which they don't
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Speaker 3: want to go to, or maybe a concert that they're
14:52
Speaker 3: not so excited about going to because of all the
14:55
Speaker 3: people and the noise and you know, the disruption. You
15:00
Speaker 3: have to get used to your child or your child's friend.
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Speaker 3: This is what they need, and you want to meet
15:08
Speaker 3: the child where they're at. You don't want to impose anything.
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Speaker 3: You want to find out what they're feeling and what's
15:14
Speaker 3: important to them, and how to help them to have
15:17
Speaker 3: a happy life, and how to learn certain skills, because
15:21
Speaker 3: if you the children learn this early on, that's such
15:25
Speaker 3: a plus. So they don't have to learn to ride
15:28
Speaker 3: the bicycle as an adult. They can learn how to
15:31
Speaker 3: ride it earlier, which is just saves them from so
15:35
Speaker 3: much pain and confusion.
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Speaker 2: The other thing I think I find is that it's
15:40
Speaker 2: not just stories from their friends or their families that
15:43
Speaker 2: might tip them over. It's also just things they hear
15:47
Speaker 2: in the news, things you hear just there's so much
15:51
Speaker 2: stuff going on in the world today that I'm laughing.
15:55
Speaker 2: I don't mean to laugh, because they take it to
15:57
Speaker 2: heart and they feel so deeply for people across us,
16:00
Speaker 2: you know, the globe, much more so than the average person.
16:06
Speaker 3: And they care about the earth. They love it, and
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Speaker 3: they love animals and they care about what happens to
16:12
Speaker 3: the earth. It's not a debate. It's like, yes, of
16:15
Speaker 3: course we take care of the earth, and I love
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Speaker 3: these little animals and it's just a natural harmony that
16:22
Speaker 3: they feel with creatures on the earth. And so you know,
16:25
Speaker 3: it's important that they're in nature. You know, when they
16:28
Speaker 3: want to go for a walk or they want to
16:30
Speaker 3: just take some time and sit by a tree, that's
16:34
Speaker 3: very important time for them, very important time. And if
16:37
Speaker 3: they're watching too much news, it's really important to take
16:40
Speaker 3: a news fast because it's too much for anyone to take,
16:43
Speaker 3: not just an EmPATH or highly sensitive, it's just too much.
16:48
Speaker 3: We're in an environment where we're trying to integrate everything
16:54
Speaker 3: that's happening, and it's impossible. I wouldn't even try, you know,
16:57
Speaker 3: to just wish the world, I'll do what you can.
17:01
Speaker 3: If you meditate and you want to send out lovely
17:04
Speaker 3: energy to the rest of the world. I believe that
17:06
Speaker 3: energy travels from the heart. I'm a big believer in
17:09
Speaker 3: the heart and the power of the heart, and that
17:11
Speaker 3: we can, on an individual level send it out, but
17:15
Speaker 3: to try and absorb it and try and fix it
17:18
Speaker 3: in our minds. Somehow, when too much, there's no way
17:21
Speaker 3: you can fix it. So people get into codependent giving
17:25
Speaker 3: where they're just in anguish because they feel like they
17:27
Speaker 3: want to help, and then they lose hope that they
17:30
Speaker 3: can help, and it's just spirals as opposed to reaching
17:35
Speaker 3: moderation and seeing what you can do and what you
17:38
Speaker 3: can't do. I mean, it's wonderful to have empathy for
17:40
Speaker 3: our fellow humans. It's wonderful, but not if it makes
17:44
Speaker 3: you sick. You know, there's such thing as too much empathy.
17:49
Speaker 2: My wife, I just watched the documentary a couple of
17:52
Speaker 2: nights ago about Jane Goodall. It's it's I think it's
17:56
Speaker 2: called her Final Words or something of that sort. Does
17:58
Speaker 2: you have you seen the interview.
18:00
Speaker 3: I don't think I saw the last one, but i've one.
18:03
Speaker 2: This one just just came out apparently it's on Netflix,
18:06
Speaker 2: and it's like this is before she just passed away recently,
18:10
Speaker 2: so they interviewed her as she said, I don't want
18:13
Speaker 2: this publish or published to put out there until after
18:15
Speaker 2: I passed away. It's like my final words. I think
18:18
Speaker 2: that's what it's called my final words or something like that.
18:20
Speaker 2: It's oh, it's beautiful. It's so beautiful. She talks about
18:23
Speaker 2: hope and all this. But I think she may have
18:25
Speaker 2: been an mpath because she loved animals and the world
18:29
Speaker 2: and the environment so deeply, even as a little girl.
18:32
Speaker 2: She spends so much time alone in nature in Africa.
18:34
Speaker 2: I was thinking, that's perfect for an EmPATH.
18:37
Speaker 3: Perfect. Yeah, it's perfect for her. Yes, And just to
18:43
Speaker 3: honor that in your child. If your child is an
18:46
Speaker 3: EmPATH or highly sensitive person, get them out in nature.
18:50
Speaker 3: And if you don't like going out in nature, then
18:52
Speaker 3: you know, try and find some situation where they can
18:55
Speaker 3: they can go out with you, can't they Yeah.
18:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's easy to kind of focus on the
19:03
Speaker 2: challenges of kids and our adults who are in passed,
19:06
Speaker 2: but also there's a lot of incredible gifts that they
19:09
Speaker 2: bring to the world. You've mentioned this with some their
19:11
Speaker 2: creativity though, but mentioned some more of the gifts that
19:14
Speaker 2: these that these kids experience.
19:17
Speaker 3: Their intuition. They know things, they have a sense of
19:21
Speaker 3: who to trust, who not to trust. They have this
19:24
Speaker 3: very strong intuition that can serve them in their lifetime.
19:28
Speaker 3: So it's important that you support that and you ask them, honey,
19:32
Speaker 3: what are you feeling I don't really like this person,
19:35
Speaker 3: but you don't even know them, honey, how can you
19:37
Speaker 3: say something like that, It's just something I'm picking up
19:41
Speaker 3: from them. I'm not miserable, and you go, okay, I'll
19:44
Speaker 3: keep that in mind, you know, to have that kind
19:47
Speaker 3: of conversation as opposed to you can't feel that way
19:51
Speaker 3: you don't even know them, and then that cuts off
19:53
Speaker 3: their intuition as opposed to that's interesting. Let's keep an
19:56
Speaker 3: eye on it, you know, if there's a problem, less
20:00
Speaker 3: up on it.
20:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to put your finger on
20:04
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, like the sense that they have
20:06
Speaker 2: a knowing without being able to sort of describe why
20:10
Speaker 2: or how I know that. I think it may be
20:12
Speaker 2: hard for parents to trust that.
20:14
Speaker 3: Maybe, well maybe, but your child is intuitive, so it
20:19
Speaker 3: would be worth your while to, you know, begin to
20:23
Speaker 3: explore with the child, well, what is there something about
20:26
Speaker 3: this person? Well, no, not really, It's just something I
20:29
Speaker 3: pick up. It's an energy I pick up. And if
20:33
Speaker 3: you don't believe in energy or subtle energies, it's important
20:36
Speaker 3: to do some reading on it, because sensitive kids pick
20:40
Speaker 3: up things in the energetic or home. It's like in
20:43
Speaker 3: Chinese medicine. They call it chi when they put the
20:46
Speaker 3: needles in that they regulate that she in the body
20:49
Speaker 3: to facilitate healing. It's an invisible energy that's around the body,
20:54
Speaker 3: and sensitive kids can pick it up. And so you
20:57
Speaker 3: want to find out what's happening, as opposed to do
21:00
Speaker 3: is this their anxiety? Is this their fear of intimacy
21:04
Speaker 3: or whatever? But I think worth saying, let's consider this,
21:08
Speaker 3: Let's just see what you know. Let's watch, watch, and
21:11
Speaker 3: I hear you. What the kids want to hear is
21:14
Speaker 3: I hear you, I see you, and I honor what
21:17
Speaker 3: you're saying, all right. They want to hear that and
21:20
Speaker 3: they want to see it in your eyes, as opposed to, oh,
21:23
Speaker 3: what's wrong with my kid? What's wrong with them? Nothing's
21:27
Speaker 3: wrong with them, and you need to know that they
21:31
Speaker 3: might have a different way of being than non EmPATH kids.
21:36
Speaker 3: But it's really interesting, you know, if you could begin
21:39
Speaker 3: to embrace who your child.
21:41
Speaker 2: Is and that pathologize it, because those kids, as you know,
21:46
Speaker 2: those kids take it on so quickly that there's something
21:49
Speaker 2: wrong with me. It's not just that I'm different, I'm
21:51
Speaker 2: different in a way that I shouldn't.
21:52
Speaker 3: Be right exactly, and there's something wrong with me, and
21:56
Speaker 3: I'm ashamed of myself. That's what I did as a child.
21:59
Speaker 3: I took on that shame and for me, getting guys
22:03
Speaker 3: along the way to help me understand. I had to
22:07
Speaker 3: integrate this into my being if I wanted to be whole.
22:11
Speaker 3: But mentors are so important. I can't tell you how
22:15
Speaker 3: important they are because then the girls or the children
22:19
Speaker 3: can have mentors to listen to that they respect, and
22:23
Speaker 3: that is worth gold.
22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. I work with girls who are who get overloaded.
22:31
Speaker 2: Sometimes they're not empass but they still a lot of
22:34
Speaker 2: people get overloaded sincerely, just because of everything that they
22:38
Speaker 2: experience in life. I like to talk to them about
22:41
Speaker 2: rhythms and how rhythmic rhythmic things can be common. I
22:45
Speaker 2: think that you mentioned in your book how important rhythmic
22:47
Speaker 2: things are for empaths. You want to talk about that
22:50
Speaker 2: for a moment.
22:52
Speaker 3: Well, I think they're different kinds of rhythms, and one
22:55
Speaker 3: is the rhythm of the moon. Many empaths love the moon,
22:58
Speaker 3: and that's the cover of the children's book, is the
23:02
Speaker 3: rabbit looking up at the moon connecting to the moon
23:06
Speaker 3: in a really personal way. As I know when when
23:09
Speaker 3: I was a child and I didn't have people to
23:12
Speaker 3: relate to. I looked up at the moon every night
23:15
Speaker 3: from my bed and I just felt something, you know,
23:18
Speaker 3: I felt like a friend was up there, and I
23:20
Speaker 3: felt that my entire life. And so the rhythms of
23:25
Speaker 3: the moon, the rhythms of dance or drumming or some
23:32
Speaker 3: kind of the bodily rhythms. To be aware of how
23:36
Speaker 3: you are, know at different times, different seasons. You know,
23:39
Speaker 3: the rhythm of seasons. Now, how are you in the winter?
23:43
Speaker 3: You know, do you feel a little more depressed when
23:45
Speaker 3: there's not light present?
23:47
Speaker 1: You know?
23:48
Speaker 3: And just see getting to know your child and how
23:51
Speaker 3: they respond to the earthly rhythms, the rhythms of weather,
23:56
Speaker 3: the rhythms of music, the circadian rhythm, the rhythms of sleep.
24:02
Speaker 3: So it's getting to know your child how they respond,
24:06
Speaker 3: and not to have a right way to respond. There's
24:09
Speaker 3: no right way, but you want to find out what
24:12
Speaker 3: their needs are so you can help.
24:15
Speaker 2: I imagine it's probably helpful for them to overtime, to
24:19
Speaker 2: develop regular sort of quite alone time where they can
24:24
Speaker 2: drum or jump on a tramp or right in their journal,
24:29
Speaker 2: or you find those ways that they know to kind
24:32
Speaker 2: of relax, unload, you know all that, I'm sure regular time,
24:38
Speaker 2: as opposed to just waiting till they're like ready to.
24:40
Speaker 3: Explode right exactly, and just train themselves to notice when
24:46
Speaker 3: they're getting a little bit anxious or tense, or if
24:49
Speaker 3: they're taking on too much, if the lights suddenly are
24:52
Speaker 3: too bright or the sounds are too loud, you to
24:56
Speaker 3: notice those signs in yourself, so you can take some
24:59
Speaker 3: time out. Then no, it's you want to nip it
25:02
Speaker 3: in the butt. You don't want it to go into
25:04
Speaker 3: sensory overload because that's a very painful way to be.
25:09
Speaker 3: But in terms of the talents and gifts of these kids,
25:12
Speaker 3: there's so many. There's creative, there's many go into healthcare
25:17
Speaker 3: because they help people. They love to help people. They
25:21
Speaker 3: go into you know, saving the earth in whatever way
25:24
Speaker 3: that they're you know, professions you know that they're attracted
25:27
Speaker 3: to can be. They want to help them and if
25:31
Speaker 3: you want to help them, find what they love to do,
25:34
Speaker 3: not what they have to do. Because I had a patient,
25:37
Speaker 3: you know, who had an EmPATH child, but they pressured
25:40
Speaker 3: her into becoming an attorney, and she really didn't want
25:44
Speaker 3: to be an attorney. But she did it anyways, and
25:47
Speaker 3: it was a very unhappy situation, and she did get
25:50
Speaker 3: herself out of it and went into another profession. But
25:54
Speaker 3: you know, the people pleasing, if the child's trying to
25:56
Speaker 3: please the parent who wants them to be an attorney,
25:59
Speaker 3: you know, they sometimes don't have the strength to say no, mom,
26:03
Speaker 3: not doing it. Yeah, going to acting school or whatever
26:08
Speaker 3: they they choose.
26:10
Speaker 2: You're right. Let's talk about Aurora, who is the character
26:14
Speaker 2: of your brand new book which came out two days ago,
26:17
Speaker 2: called The Highly Sensitive Rabbit. Talk about Aurora and the
26:20
Speaker 2: kinds of things that she's an EmPATH and the kinds
26:23
Speaker 2: of things that she had to learn to do to
26:24
Speaker 2: take care of herself.
26:26
Speaker 3: Well, aura Ora is an EmPATH and she lives in
26:29
Speaker 3: the Sonoran Desert, which is a little bit south of Tucson,
26:32
Speaker 3: and we wanted to put the book in the desert
26:35
Speaker 3: environment rather than the forest where all kinds of children's
26:38
Speaker 3: books take place in the forest. And Aurora is a
26:40
Speaker 3: highly sensitive rabbit, and she's very caring, and she cares
26:45
Speaker 3: about all the animals. She cares about the coyote who's
26:47
Speaker 3: howling in the middle of the night, is the okay,
26:50
Speaker 3: what's he feeling and she stays up thinking about him,
26:54
Speaker 3: and the brothers said, you know you're a cry. Maybe
26:57
Speaker 3: I'm not going to play with you. What's wrong with you?
27:00
Speaker 3: So she had a sense that there is something wrong
27:02
Speaker 3: with her, and through her journey of a loss, they
27:05
Speaker 3: lose their home to a great storm they have to
27:09
Speaker 3: go through. She meets other animals who give her tips
27:14
Speaker 3: on how to be a sensitive rabbit, a healthy sensitive rabbit.
27:18
Speaker 3: The hovelina who is able to say to her, you
27:22
Speaker 3: need to center yourself, or the skunk who tells her
27:29
Speaker 3: you need to learn how to set boundaries, or the
27:32
Speaker 3: wren who tells her you need to fly away. What
27:35
Speaker 3: I do is I fly away and take them alone time.
27:38
Speaker 3: So these animals, through their compassion, give her tools on
27:41
Speaker 3: how she can center herself and become happy with being
27:46
Speaker 3: highly sensitive. And so it's a very positive story. It's
27:50
Speaker 3: about what self care tools can you develop as a
27:54
Speaker 3: child that are very simple. Taking a breath is one
27:57
Speaker 3: of the tools she learns, and it sounds very simple,
28:00
Speaker 3: but they work, and especially with children where you want
28:03
Speaker 3: it simple and you want it doable. So this is
28:08
Speaker 3: the story of Aurora, and it's really based on my
28:11
Speaker 3: childhood being a highly sensitive rabbit or human who didn't
28:17
Speaker 3: get the understanding, and so I wanted to offer this
28:20
Speaker 3: book to give the kids the understanding that I know
28:23
Speaker 3: will go a long ways for them.
28:26
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that parents sometimes have
28:28
Speaker 2: a hard time with, especially as the girls that I
28:31
Speaker 2: work with, at least as they get older, like in
28:33
Speaker 2: the middle school high school years, is they want their
28:36
Speaker 2: alone time to decompress and all that, and a lot
28:40
Speaker 2: of times parents judge as being why aren't they out
28:43
Speaker 2: there friends? You know, they don't they have any friends?
28:45
Speaker 2: They are they getting depressed? And they start, you know,
28:48
Speaker 2: parents worst case that like, oh my god, I've been
28:50
Speaker 2: hearing these stories about suicidal ideations and all kinds of things.
28:54
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of times parents even fight
28:56
Speaker 2: the fact that these kids just want alone time and
28:59
Speaker 2: they so how do you work with parents to help
29:02
Speaker 2: them understand that this is so important for them?
29:06
Speaker 3: Yes, well, the parents need to be reassured that this
29:09
Speaker 3: isn't about suicidal ideation. If they think their child is suicidal,
29:13
Speaker 3: they need to ask them that. You know, you have
29:16
Speaker 3: to find out that your child's suicidal. But no, empaths
29:19
Speaker 3: usually have fewer friends. They don't have big posse's of
29:23
Speaker 3: friends that they hang out with, and they usually don't
29:25
Speaker 3: like going shopping that much because of all the stimulation,
29:29
Speaker 3: So they don't do the same kind of things, or
29:32
Speaker 3: they don't like video games their if their boys, you know,
29:35
Speaker 3: it's too loud, and so they just don't like those things.
29:38
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean they're depressed. It means they like other things.
29:42
Speaker 3: And so the children have to be you know, honored
29:46
Speaker 3: that they want alone time. But if they're socially isolating,
29:49
Speaker 3: that's different than a loone time. If they won't go out,
29:53
Speaker 3: if they won't make any friends, if what's you know,
29:55
Speaker 3: you want to find out what's going on with that.
29:57
Speaker 3: But empaths, you know, I remember having one best friend
30:00
Speaker 3: all the time, and I had other friends that were
30:04
Speaker 3: more peripheral. But I have one best friend that I
30:06
Speaker 3: would climb the trees with, I would take the walks with,
30:09
Speaker 3: I'd go to the beach with, and we were like this.
30:13
Speaker 3: And in my life the pattern has always been I
30:15
Speaker 3: have one main friend and some other friends, but the
30:20
Speaker 3: main one is the one. So I didn't have like
30:23
Speaker 3: ten friends that i'm you know, I'm on the phone
30:26
Speaker 3: with all the time, Like some of these girls do,
30:29
Speaker 3: you know, and em pass might not like to do that.
30:31
Speaker 3: They might not like to hang on the phone like
30:33
Speaker 3: that because too many words, you know, it's too much talking.
30:38
Speaker 3: You know, m past feel they're feelers. They talk, but
30:42
Speaker 3: they don't talk in that same way. You know.
30:47
Speaker 2: The parents, especially the moms who I've worked with, who
30:50
Speaker 2: had the hardest time, I think with what you're talking
30:53
Speaker 2: about is the ones who were they were outgoing in school,
30:56
Speaker 2: they had fifty friends, they were one of the popular
30:58
Speaker 2: kids maybe, and so they see their daughter. They have
31:02
Speaker 2: this picture of this is what looks like in middle
31:04
Speaker 2: school or high school, this is what's normal, and their
31:07
Speaker 2: daughter is not living out that picture, and so that's
31:10
Speaker 2: what worries them.
31:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's important for those moms to learn that
31:16
Speaker 3: the daughter isn't always, you know, following the same path
31:19
Speaker 3: as you, and it's a perhaps a different temperament. And
31:24
Speaker 3: I was never popular, you know, as a child, I
31:28
Speaker 3: was never popular. So it was a source of pain
31:32
Speaker 3: for me. Actually I wanted to be popular, but I
31:34
Speaker 3: didn't have the outgoing personality to go on the upper
31:38
Speaker 3: patio with the kids and do what popular kids do,
31:41
Speaker 3: which is a lot of talking. And socializing. So you know,
31:45
Speaker 3: I remember, you know, you highly sensitive kids might feel
31:49
Speaker 3: a little out of it. No, it's true, but you
31:51
Speaker 3: want to help them find other highly sensitive kids so
31:54
Speaker 3: they don't have to reinvent the wheel every time they
31:57
Speaker 3: talk to somebody. Now, somebody them who understands them, even
32:02
Speaker 3: if it's one or two friends, that's fine. But if
32:06
Speaker 3: you think a kid is depressed and socially isolating, that's
32:09
Speaker 3: a different problem. And I do want to address that
32:13
Speaker 3: absolutely and get the child some help.
32:16
Speaker 2: And I think also in this day and age, what
32:19
Speaker 2: we tend to value is kids who are competitive, kids
32:23
Speaker 2: who are ambitious, kids who are getting straight a's, kids
32:25
Speaker 2: who were grant you know, going to go to the
32:27
Speaker 2: top colleges.
32:28
Speaker 1: Know.
32:28
Speaker 2: And sometimes I think these kids, at least the ones
32:31
Speaker 2: I've worked with, a lot of times, they don't It's
32:33
Speaker 2: not that they don't have visions for what they want
32:36
Speaker 2: to do, but they're not like they're not going to
32:38
Speaker 2: step on other people to get to the top kind
32:40
Speaker 2: of thing. And so sometimes they're seen as being less
32:44
Speaker 2: less I guess.
32:46
Speaker 3: Yes they are. In our in our doggy dog culture
32:50
Speaker 3: is step on this one and get, you know, get
32:53
Speaker 3: to the top. All those TV shows that you know
32:56
Speaker 3: support that, and so you want to you want to
33:00
Speaker 3: understand that there's another way, and things are changing. Obviously
33:04
Speaker 3: things aren't working out well for the world. The way
33:06
Speaker 3: that you know, the emotional intelligence is of so many people,
33:10
Speaker 3: you want you want to have more of this sensitive,
33:13
Speaker 3: loving and strong. I want to make that point. They're
33:17
Speaker 3: not whims. You know, I'm extremely strong. I set really
33:21
Speaker 3: good boundaries. I know, you know exactly, you know what
33:24
Speaker 3: to do. As a physician. You know, I've been trained
33:27
Speaker 3: to be very strong in a lot of situations. So
33:30
Speaker 3: it's not as if highly sensitive people aren't strong. They're
33:34
Speaker 3: just not. They're being sent They're being quieter about their strength.
33:39
Speaker 3: It's a quiet form of strength. But you know, you
33:41
Speaker 3: put me an emergency and somebody is down and out
33:44
Speaker 3: and they need help. I you know, I'm right there,
33:47
Speaker 3: right there, so you know, and making decisions. It's a
33:52
Speaker 3: misconception that just because you're quiet doesn't mean that you're
33:56
Speaker 3: strong or that you're competitive. You can be very competitive,
33:59
Speaker 3: just not in the typical ways.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I always I wrote a book a couple
34:05
Speaker 2: years ago called She Leads about developing female leaders. But
34:09
Speaker 2: one of the things I said, is I think too
34:11
Speaker 2: often we have this model of this is what a
34:13
Speaker 2: leader looks like, this is what strength looks like. It's
34:15
Speaker 2: just if I can say the masculine old school kind
34:19
Speaker 2: of a thing where you're get competitive and you know,
34:21
Speaker 2: all that, as opposed to like I always think of
34:24
Speaker 2: President George Bush standing on the aircraft carrier with his
34:28
Speaker 2: army jacket on saying mission accomplished. You know, the masculine
34:32
Speaker 2: that's that's what a leader is. But there's a lot
34:34
Speaker 2: of our those EmPATH kind of kids who are incredible
34:36
Speaker 2: leaders and strong. They don't get noticed because they don't
34:40
Speaker 2: show up that way, and we try and squish them
34:43
Speaker 2: to be a leader that way, and it's like that's
34:45
Speaker 2: not who they.
34:45
Speaker 3: Are right right exactly, But they're more collaborative. Now. In
34:50
Speaker 3: my book The Genius of Empathy, I have a chapter
34:53
Speaker 3: on empathic leadership and what that looks like compared to
34:56
Speaker 3: the old patriarchal model, and it's a very differentfferent thing.
35:00
Speaker 3: And it's more of a team approach where you want
35:02
Speaker 3: to hear what's going on in your team. You're not
35:05
Speaker 3: just the guy giving the orders, you know, you want
35:08
Speaker 3: to be a team, an organism you know, living creative evolution,
35:15
Speaker 3: which is very different than you do it this way,
35:17
Speaker 3: or you're out, they're going to be fired. I think
35:21
Speaker 3: that's more of the old school, and I my work
35:25
Speaker 3: is about promoting something different than that and seeing if
35:28
Speaker 3: humanity can go on a bit of a different path
35:31
Speaker 3: at the same time, embracing all those CEOs and all
35:34
Speaker 3: those people you know who are you know, wanting to
35:38
Speaker 3: counter life in that way. That's fine. Everybody is fine
35:42
Speaker 3: as long as you know they want to try and
35:44
Speaker 3: get along with each other, which is very hard for
35:47
Speaker 3: human beings to get along with each other. So I think,
35:50
Speaker 3: you know, working with children and the highly sensitive children
35:53
Speaker 3: and getting them young and being able to train them
35:57
Speaker 3: so they feel good about themselves and have a lot
35:59
Speaker 3: of confidence whether they're highly sensitive or not, and to
36:03
Speaker 3: be able to grow up with that confidence. I've seen
36:06
Speaker 3: kids who are raised that way, and I'm sure you
36:09
Speaker 3: have to and they when they grow up, they don't
36:11
Speaker 3: have the same struggles of am I okay? So yeah,
36:15
Speaker 3: I'm okay, I'm sensitive. I don't want to go to
36:17
Speaker 3: that big stadium, you know. I I'd rather go to
36:21
Speaker 3: a little restaurant. No, no, not good or bad it's
36:26
Speaker 3: just a preference.
36:27
Speaker 2: But the end up becoming the end up becoming the
36:30
Speaker 2: gene Goodall's and then mister Rogers Rogers of the world,
36:33
Speaker 2: who who did who just had different energy, but they
36:36
Speaker 2: were incredibly powerful and made a tremendous difference in the world.
36:40
Speaker 3: That's right, and the purity of the heart of the
36:43
Speaker 3: highly sensitive and of Aurora that's actually my nickname now
36:47
Speaker 3: as an adult on the Aurora.
36:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know to to everybody who is highly
36:58
Speaker 3: sensitive to open up to all of your gifts and
37:01
Speaker 3: deal with your challenges and learn how to work with it,
37:05
Speaker 3: learn how to be more centered. And it doesn't mean
37:08
Speaker 3: you're any there's anything wrong with you that you're learning
37:11
Speaker 3: how to deal with these strategies. But you know, I
37:15
Speaker 3: support you, and I really have the most admiration for
37:19
Speaker 3: you and in your growth and development, and there's nothing
37:22
Speaker 3: wrong with you.
37:24
Speaker 2: We've been talking with doctor Judith or Love. Yeah, she's
37:28
Speaker 2: a psychiatrist at UCLA and she's written several books about
37:32
Speaker 2: m pass sensitive people who are sensitive, kids who were sensitive.
37:35
Speaker 2: The book I read was The m Past Survival Guide,
37:38
Speaker 2: Life Strategies for Sensitive People. But she has a brand
37:41
Speaker 2: new book out two days old, called The Highly Sensitive Rabbit,
37:44
Speaker 2: which I would strongly recommend to all parents who have
37:47
Speaker 2: a sensitive kid. I told her that I'm going to
37:49
Speaker 2: take it to camp in two weeks to my middle
37:51
Speaker 2: school weekend retreat, because I know the kids will like
37:53
Speaker 2: the book. It's just it's a sweet book, but also
37:56
Speaker 2: gives some nice information about what sensitive people can do
38:00
Speaker 2: take care of themselves. I would recommend to all you
38:02
Speaker 2: listening to this to buy that book, That Highly Sensitive Rabbit.
38:06
Speaker 2: How can people get a hold of you if they
38:09
Speaker 2: want more information?
38:10
Speaker 3: The best way is through my website which is d R.
38:14
Speaker 3: Judith Orloff O R L O F F dot com.
38:19
Speaker 3: And I'm going to be giving a few online events
38:23
Speaker 3: if you would like to join in in this conversation
38:25
Speaker 3: about sensitive children. And I have all kinds of newsletters
38:30
Speaker 3: and blogs and whatever you want to know about sensitive people,
38:35
Speaker 3: it's it's on my site. So I invite you to come.
38:38
Speaker 2: Visit say the set one more time.
38:42
Speaker 3: D R Judith Orloff dot com, Doctor Judith orlof dot com.
38:48
Speaker 2: And for those of you who are driving in your car,
38:50
Speaker 2: as I always say, are walking with and listening to
38:53
Speaker 2: this through your watch, I always put these links in
38:56
Speaker 2: the show notes so you don't have to memorize it'll
38:59
Speaker 2: be in the show note. Just go to my website
39:01
Speaker 2: and you'll get those. Thank you so much for coming on.
39:03
Speaker 2: Thanks for all what you're doing for these sensitive Kidsie.
39:06
Speaker 2: I think people need to understand them. You've done a
39:08
Speaker 2: great job of educating us about that.
39:10
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's been my pleasure to be on your show.
39:19
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Raising Daughters.
39:22
Speaker 1: Hopefully you've learned something useful about girls and young women
39:25
Speaker 1: and how to help them navigate the pressures, challenges, and
39:28
Speaker 1: opportunities of modern life. If you want to become a
39:31
Speaker 1: more effective parent, keep listening to the show at doctor
39:34
Speaker 1: Tim Jordan dot com and let the conversations shape you.
39:38
Speaker 1: Build that one of a kind connection with your daughters
39:40
Speaker 1: in the most profound and meaningful ways possible, shaping them
39:44
Speaker 1: into strong, confident women of the future. That's all for now,
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Speaker 1: see you next week for another episode of Raising Daughters.