Latest / ChildCare Conversations / 392: You Are Not Addicted to Control, You Are Afraid of Collapse with Chanie Wilschanski

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392: You Are Not Addicted to Control, You Are Afraid of Collapse with Chanie Wilschanski · ChildCare Conversations

• 0:03
  Childcare Conversations: Welcome to Childcare Conversations, a growing community of early childhood leaders asking better questions and finding real solutions together.
• 0:11
  Childcare Conversations: The conversations shaping early childhood happen here.
• 0:15
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• 0:28
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• 0:35
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• 0:39
  Childcare Conversations: Now let's get into today's conversation, one we think you're really going to enjoy.
• 0:57
  Kate Woodward Young: And I just want to have to say, because this is going to be the entire episode, it should not be normal.
• 1:04
  Kate Woodward Young: This is not normal.
• 1:05
  Kate Woodward Young: And so uh with that, why don't you go ahead and give us an introduction and tell us how you ended up in childcare and even better, why this book and why now?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I'm actually start with that question and then we'll trace back to some of your other questions.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, why this book, why now?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: So my book is called This Can't Be Normal: What to Do When Success Starts to Feel Like Survival.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I went into writing this book because I really began to explore the tensions of really difficult, paradoxical questions that didn't have simple binary answers to.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why does building a bigger team leave leaders feeling more alone than before?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Why does being needed feel meaningful until it becomes suffocating?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Why does the very competence that builds a leader's success actually become the handcuffs and the trap that doesn't allow them to leave their business because of their competence?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: And where does responsibility go under pressure?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: So if everyone is responsible in the team and you're paying senior leadership teams, but what happens when there's uncertainty and pressure?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Really, if you look under the hood, all routes lead back to the owner.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So everyone holds their responsibilities until it's like, well, I don't really know what to do now.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is too uncertain.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's too many competing priorities.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is too difficult.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not really sure how to answer this.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's the owner becomes the place that everyone metabolizes all their uncertainty, chaos, distress, overwhelm, anxiety.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then we wonder, why is the leader overwhelmed, burnt out, frustrated, losing her hair, has her own immune disease, can't sleep through the night, fill in the blank.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why, why now?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because our industry is at a turning point.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: We cannot continue to operate this way.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: We must declare this can't be normal.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't normal for success for leaders who are operating multi-million dollar operations to feel like they are dying inside.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I do not use that word lightly.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: They feel like they're dying on the inside.
• 3:18
  Kate Woodward Young: Let me ask you a quick question before we get too far.
• 3:20
  Kate Woodward Young: When you start talking, you said a couple of things, you said a whole bunch of things that I that resonate.
• 3:25
  Kate Woodward Young: Um, but the first one I just want to touch on because I think it's one that a lot of leaders in our industry forget, especially like leaders who are managing seven, eight, twenty schools, they get it.
• 3:39
  Kate Woodward Young: But those who are managing don't.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 3:42
  Kate Woodward Young: Those are actually the leaders that are the most voting.
• 3:44
  Kate Woodward Young: Well, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait.
• 3:45
  Kate Woodward Young: Let me know.
• 3:45
  Kate Woodward Young: We could go to that thing also.
• 3:46
  Kate Woodward Young: We can address both.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: We can address both.
• 3:48
  Kate Woodward Young: Because because I think they see themselves as managing multimillion dollar businesses.
• 3:53
  Kate Woodward Young: I think what we where we struggle sometimes is that phrase that sometimes those smaller programs don't necessarily recognize themselves.
• 4:03
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that we know that people in upper leadership with a whole team definitely resonate with the book because they're like, oh yeah, she sees me.
• 4:13
  Kate Woodward Young: But I want the folks who are listening who have one or two or three centers to also realize this book is absolutely for them as well.
• 4:21
  Kate Woodward Young: Because you are running a multi-million dollar business if you actually did the math.
• 4:25
  Kate Woodward Young: Uh, it's amazing to me how many people don't actually understand their revenue and the size of their business.
• 4:32
  Kate Woodward Young: They go, Oh, I just run a childcare center.
• 4:36
  Kate Woodward Young: And then you start asking them questions like how many people, how many families, what is your um actual economic impact in your community?
• 4:44
  Kate Woodward Young: And they have no idea because they haven't sat down and done the math.
• 4:47
  Kate Woodward Young: So I just wanted to make sure that everybody who was listening understood that this is for everybody and every version of leadership.
• 4:57
  Kate Woodward Young: So you didn't write the book just for those who have a senior leadership team, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, all right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: I wrote it also as a mom of four young people.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I have my youngest is eight.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: I have an 11-year-old, a 14-year-old, and a 16-year-old.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And again, a big part of the premise of the book is where does responsibility go under pressure?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: And chapter one explores the invisible weight of leadership.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: The invisible weight is everything that your mind cannot afford to stop tracking.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that I write probably a hundred words into the book is you aren't addicted to control, but you are allergic to collapse.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever I hear people say, Oh, you're a control freak, you need to let go, you need to delegate, you need to trust.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, excuse me, are you blind?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: How can you like, how dare you tell a person you need to delegate, you need to trust.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, she's paid the cost of delegating and trusting, and it's cost her her life.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's costed her.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: The place has collapsed, and she knows the downstream consequences of not making that move.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so telling her not to make that move is telling her, can you survive not knowing what happens when this thing might collapse?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: No, you can't do that to someone unless you've supplied the capacity for them to tolerate witnessing everything crash and burn around them while they're not coming to rescue either people.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I came to my mentor and I write about this in chapter one, and I said, I am exhausted.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: I need to protect my energy.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: I am falling apart at the seams.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: I, in chapter two, I write about the false promise of systems.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: I got sick 15 times in 11 months.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was rushed to the ER because I was having heart attack symptoms.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: The entire left side of my body was numb.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't diagnosed with a heart attack.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was diagnosed with something called stress-induced inflammation.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: You can go research it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's a fancy word for it that I can't even pronounce.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: So my body was literally revolting against the level of responsibility and pressure that I was holding in every area of my life.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so can I ask a question?
• 7:18
  Kate Woodward Young: Please.
• 7:19
  Kate Woodward Young: So because I think one of the things is it's every area of your life, but as an owner or as the one in charge, I think there's a piece that sometimes we forget, which is part of that, right?
• 7:29
  Kate Woodward Young: Which is in the back of your head, which is the risk.
• 7:32
  Kate Woodward Young: Sure.
• 7:33
  Kate Woodward Young: Because everything lies on you, the the payroll for all of the staff, everybody.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: It can't be normal.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: The parents being able to go to work.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't normal for one person to have everything rely on them.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's the premise of the book.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was the relational, operational, spiritual, and cheerleader shock absorber of every ecosystem in my life.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Parenting, marriage, siblings, friendship, business.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Every single bucket of my life, I was the central shock absorber where any place where uncertainty and responsibility needed to go, it gravitated to me.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you a funny story.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: My daughter is very similar to me, but I'm raising her very differently.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: So she doesn't feel like responsibility needs to route to her.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: But she was on a plane, she was going to Canada where my two younger, where my two daughters went to overnight camp.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so my younger daughter's 11.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: She's sitting in the aisle seat.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: My older daughter's 14.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: She's in the middle seat.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then there was another person sitting in the window.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there was crazy turbulence.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: The plane is shaking, and my 11-year-old is scared, and she holds my daughter Goldie's hand, and she's like, Goldie, I'm scared.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: And Goldie's like, don't worry, it's okay.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we'll say a chapter of Psalms together.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's okay.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Come, let's like, I got you.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: This woman who's sitting in the aisle seat, mind you, grown woman, Goldie's like, she had to have been at least in her 40s.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: She takes my daughter's hand and holds her hand.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: And my daughter looks at her and she's like, no, we're sisters.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm I'm helping her.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: And the woman's like, yeah, but I'm also scared.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: And my daughter calls me up and she's like, Mommy, I know you always talk about like responsibility always gravitates to the highest capacity person.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: On the plane, I was the highest capacity person in that row.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: So whoever's listening to this and thinks that only grown-ups get dumped with responsibility, not true.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: My 14-year-old was sitting in the middle aisle, and a grown woman decided, oh, I'm scared.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a high capacity person.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Gravitate.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and when you're listening to this, like it is so automatic, you're faster than Wi-Fi.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Your capacity to absorb, anticipate, forecast, look ahead is so high.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: People literally do not even realize how they are leaching onto your brain.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and it's and half the time we don't, and we don't recognize it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we don't realize it either.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's this can't be normal.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: We do not realize it either.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's what this can't be normal is.
• 10:02
  Kate Woodward Young: Absolutely.
• 10:02
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that it's so important to kind of like you said, raising the next generation.
• 10:07
  Kate Woodward Young: But I also think putting the vocabulary, naming it, identifying it, naming it, giving out words.
• 10:14
  Kate Woodward Young: And I love the fact that you're talking about other ways to talk about things and why sometimes those buzz phrases or those buzzwords or things that, again, we've taken as normal statements if we haven't backed them up with additional context that sometimes and boundaries and limitations, because again, you can still have pieces of that, I think, be valid, right?
• 10:42
  Kate Woodward Young: Like that delegating piece can be a component.
• 10:45
  Kate Woodward Young: But I think that your comment and your statement about don't just do that falls back into that, you know, we we we say do this, but we don't really understand that risk, that that piece of being the one who is in charge, you know, because again, we're the one on the dotted line, we're the one signing the check.
• 11:07
  Kate Woodward Young: So I can delegate all I want to, but if what happens if you don't do what I delegated?
• 11:13
  Kate Woodward Young: Because then the risk is on me.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's not on you anyway.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that means that everyone in the organization plays pretend and you're the only one that's really working.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because if no one has to really absorb the consequences of their choices and their lack of capacity, that means you're the one that's only responsible.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: So technically, you're the only one that's working.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone gets to play pretend.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: They get to play house, they get to play enrollment specialists, they get to play operations director, they get to play director.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: But when it's hard and when it's difficult, and when there's competing priorities, and when they're out of capacity, and when the mayor makes a new rule of ratio, then it's like, okay, but now you have to deal with this.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I'm really the only one that works here because all of you get to play pretend working.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: But when it's really hard and the stakes matter, you get to opt out.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: So then everyone's playing pretend, and that can't be normal.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: It is not normal to have a payroll.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I have a client who has a million dollars in payroll.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you are the only one who works.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone plays pretend because if it gets hard and they get to come to you and say, help me, I can't figure it out.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then you have to figure out for them, as opposed to giving them a question and letting them sit in the muck of that discomfort.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Shit, this is hard.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, love.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: It is effing hard.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Deal with it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I will sit with you.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: I will not rescue you.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I have to rescue you, then I'm the only one that works here and you play pretend.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, it can't be normal.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Be normal.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't normal.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: We have normalized insanity.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: We have normalized that you can have a million dollars in payroll and everyone plays pretend and you're the only one that's up at night.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean I'm the only one that's responsible because I sign on the dotted line?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: I have a team.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean I'm the only one that's responsible for our four children?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm married.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean I'm the only one that's responsible for this friendship?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Are you not an adult in this friendship?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: What does that even mean?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: That one.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is my life.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is my life.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, um, no, this can't be normal.
• 13:25
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh, I I mean, I read the book and saw so many similarities because again, when my youngest graduated from high school two weeks later, my husband of 23 years decided he was done.
• 13:37
  Kate Woodward Young: And again, had all kinds of, you know, I had to deal with the friendship things, the children things, everything during that time period.
• 13:44
  Kate Woodward Young: So there was a lot of, yes, I totally got the book.
• 13:47
  Kate Woodward Young: But let's talk about the friendship thing.
• 13:49
  Kate Woodward Young: Because again, one of the things that I think is really, really interesting about women in leadership and women who have built that authority is that sometimes we can find that peer who gets it.
• 14:02
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 14:03
  Kate Woodward Young: And sometimes we can't.
• 14:05
  Kate Woodward Young: So I think that that friendship piece, like when we talk about you need your tribe, you need your people, you need whatever whatever phrase it is that you're looking at, right?
• 14:14
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Kate Woodward Young: I think having a group of folks in your circle who get it, even if you don't consider them, I'm gonna call like your best friends, right?
• 14:22
  Kate Woodward Young: But sometimes we outgrow people.
• 14:25
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that it's okay to outgrow people and call a spade a spade.
• 14:29
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that that is one of those things that I kind of picked up during the book and I make in my own notes, is I have to be okay with outgrowing people, whether it's my family, whether it's my friends, because again, there are things that we've kind of come to say as well.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'll share a different perspective because I love what you're bringing up, and I'm obsessed with friendship as well.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: So in the emotional regulation chapter, where I talk about a lot of leaders tell me, like, I don't struggle with emotional regulation.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't yell.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, emotional regulation is not about volume, it's about your steadied presence.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: How steady are you when the unpredictable arrives?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: I can also become when nothing's going on.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's not what I asked you.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: How are you when there's 70 competing priorities coming at you?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do you anchor and steady yourself?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one of the reasons why a lot of leaders struggle to steady themselves and why everything becomes a big deal is because their life collapses into two worlds, home and work.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: When your life collapses into two places, then each one holds disproportionate stakes in your brain, which is why you need something that I call the rhythm of friendship.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll just read a small section of that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you do not create intentional space to be witnessed as a human, your exhaustion will reveal in ways you do not want.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: When bottled up, the weight of leadership does not vanish.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: It looks for side doors.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: It leaks out in your tone, the short reply, the clicked what instead of a gentle high.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: It shows up in your decisions when you choose what ends discomfort instead of what holds the standard.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: The solution is not how do I be calmer?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: It is to be more connected.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Friendship steadies you.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is where you remember you are more than the role that you fill.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: You need friends, real friends, who you can come and fall apart in.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't have to say, I'm so sorry for crying.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, then I already know you're not my friend.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: If I have to apologize for crying in front of you, if I have to apologize for being a real human emotion and having a need right now, how are you my friend?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: I have to apologize in front of a million other people for losing my cool.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, I need to be able to fall apart in front of you.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, guys, my calendar is practically full with child care owners asking for the secret sauce on how to pay zero in taxes.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we firmly believe that rather than pay taxes, pay yourself and build generational wealth.
• 16:51
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• 16:52
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• 16:56
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• 16:59
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• 17:10
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• 17:19
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• 17:25
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• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know I just blew your mind.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So go back and review this video several times.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can just click below, find out how and if you qualify.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roll.
• 18:08
  Kate Woodward Young: That is so, I mean, that is, I think that, like if there was gonna be something that hopefully folks, yes, I want folks to go download the first chapter of the book.
• 18:17
  Kate Woodward Young: I want people to connect with you on Substack.
• 18:19
  Kate Woodward Young: Yes, but I want people to take away.
• 18:22
  Kate Woodward Young: So, you know, our listeners are in 125 countries.
• 18:25
  Kate Woodward Young: We've got, you know, predominantly, you know, females in leadership of all ages.
• 18:31
  Kate Woodward Young: It's amazing when you start looking at the demographics because they're as young as 20, and some of them have been in the industry for five and six decades.
• 18:39
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 18:39
  Kate Woodward Young: And they're still coming to the podcast.
• 18:41
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that all of us have to remember that there's a season, right?
• 18:46
  Kate Woodward Young: And so where you and I are right now and our, I'm gonna call it baggage, all these stuff that we kept carrying on our backs that we've determined should not be normal, um, we're trying really hard to share with others to again put that vocabulary to it, the the awareness that if you've got to apologize in front of a friend or a family member or a significant other, then maybe they shouldn't be.
• 19:13
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think it's okay to say, you know, you had a space in my life, you're not here now.
• 19:20
  Kate Woodward Young: And I don't see that as a bad thing.
• 19:22
  Kate Woodward Young: I've got friends.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the relationship can adjust.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to I give, I want to give a nuance there.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: We are, it's not an all or nothing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I know in a world of like where we talk about like gaslighting and this and all this kind of stuff, it's like, cut people off, cut people off.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's a nuance, okay?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Meaning you can come to a friend and say, you know, I realize that I really need a container where I don't have to edit myself.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: When I'm in my job, I'm constantly needing to edit and think through my emotions because people are constantly looking at me as the role model and as the, you know, emotional dispensary of advice and whatever it is.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: I need a container where I can come and I don't need to be perfect and edited and polished.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: I really believe you're that person for me.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: The question is, is this the season for it?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can I rely on you for this?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and then you stop.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then you stop talking.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: You let the other person meet you.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, honey, I would love to be that person for you.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know what?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: I have too much stuff going on in my life.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can't be that person for you right now.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: I could cheer for you from the sidelines, but I can't be that person.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: Be willing to risk to renegotiate the terms of a relationship, whether that's with your spouse, your kids, your mom, your friends, whatever it is, renegotiate the terms of the relationship.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't working for me.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's not working for me that I can't cry in front of you or I can't do this in front of you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking about crying.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to cry in front of everyone.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: But you get what I'm saying?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Renego.
• 20:45
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh, I do.
• 20:46
  Kate Woodward Young: I mean, I think about so again, so like I have people who are have who were in my life for long periods of time who are no longer in my life.
• 20:54
  Kate Woodward Young: But I think one of the things that happened that sometimes, um, again, because we don't talk about it, right?
• 21:01
  Kate Woodward Young: It's kind of a shh, it's a secret, right?
• 21:03
  Kate Woodward Young: We don't talk about the front, the fact that some of these relationships can be, they can go on the bookshelf as, hey, that was a great chapter in my life.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:12
  Kate Woodward Young: It doesn't mean that we have to carry the book around forever.
• 21:16
  Kate Woodward Young: And I've got friends right now that if they called me, I'd be there for them on a heartbeat.
• 21:20
  Kate Woodward Young: I love them.
• 21:21
  Kate Woodward Young: I would do anything for them, but they're not my day-to-day people because maybe they're just too much, they're too energy draining.
• 21:28
  Kate Woodward Young: Like I gotta be a whole different person.
• 21:30
  Kate Woodward Young: So it's like it's not really a friendship anymore.
• 21:33
  Kate Woodward Young: Like at one point in time it was, right?
• 21:34
  Kate Woodward Young: And we all have those people.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Katie, there's grief.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the probably most unlike, and I talk about this in relational intelligence.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: I talk about in the integrity of standards chapter and the rhythm of repair.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: There is grief as you move through different seasons of leadership, when you close certain chapters, when you open certain relationships, when you don't.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you metabolize your loss, your grief, your frustration?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you get to come unfinished, unpolished, unedited, not knowing the perfect question to ask?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you get to come and say, I don't know what I need to ask?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I just know I have a million things in my head.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And someone stands there and says, just talk.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm listening.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Just talk.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: We don't even let ourselves have that because in a world of in Western society, we idealize individualism.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: We idealize, I did it myself.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: I did it on my own.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a self-made millionaire.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: I could do everything myself.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a boss woman.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what you constantly signal to your team is isolation is strength.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: The more isolated you are, the stronger you are.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, the more vulnerable you are to actually all the outside forces that could destroy you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: You are not stronger when you are isolated.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: You are stronger when you are connected to yourself, to your soul, to your values, to who you are, and to other people.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: How do I stay with myself while staying connected to you?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Women are terrified of losing themselves in other people, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is what happened to me.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: This can't be normal.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: I lost myself in all the relationships.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know who I was.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's just who everyone needed me to be.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I needed to find me.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's whatever hat you were wearing.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: You were so-and-so's mom, so-and-so's boss, so-and-so.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: I needed to find me.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then can I stay connected to me while being connected to you?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe sometimes I can't.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe in order to stay connected to you right now, it means abandoning me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: I need to pause.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: I need to take some space where I can't abandon me ever again.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: The cost is too high.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: This can't be normal.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: I can never abandon myself again.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: I will never pay that price again.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: How will I ensure that I don't pay that price again?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: What are my anchors?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: What are my rhythms?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: What do I predictably and reliably return to to remember who is Hani before overwhelming anxiety, grief, frustration, and everyone else's stuff?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Who is she?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: She is warm.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: She is loving, she is generous, she is kind, and her soul and her brain deserve to be protected, just like everyone else's.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And because you're overwhelmed, that doesn't mean I have to come and save you.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: My heart also deserves care.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: I also deserve someone to come look after me and say, honey, what do you need?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Not me constantly going and supplying it for everyone else.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: What do you need?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: What does anyone ask me what I need?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Does anyone tell me come sit down?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: The problem every mom really has, most business owners have.
• 24:30
  Kate Woodward Young: We all become the lifeguard.
• 24:32
  Kate Woodward Young: Yes.
• 24:32
  Kate Woodward Young: Yes, we we've all become the lifeguard.
• 24:34
  Kate Woodward Young: Okay, so as we start to wrap up this episode, what would be one tip?
• 24:39
  Kate Woodward Young: So somebody's listening, you want to give them one word of advice and the reason to go download chapter one, the reason to join you on Substack.
• 24:48
  Kate Woodward Young: What is one piece that you're like, if you get nothing out of the last 25 minutes, this is what I want you to get.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I like to leave people with a question.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So chapter one is about being witnessed.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because grief and pain are not only internal experiences, they alter our relationship to the world.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: And being witnessed helps make that experience more bearable.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that I change your experience or now I change your circumstance.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we all know that grief needs a witness.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: You can read all the books on grief, all the books, but we tend to think of grief as like, oh, I lost someone or someone I love died.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, grief comes with that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And also, grief has no immediate problem to solve.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: A witness stays present without requiring you to turn your pain into something meaningful and optimistic and a lesson.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: No, chapter one is the invisible weight of leadership.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Can you sit with how not normal it has been?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Can you witness where your success has turned into survival?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Can you actually sit inside of that?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: Can you let someone accompany you without asking to take away your pain?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what chapter one is.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: When you read it, I hope you feel witnessed, seen, cared for, just like exhiled of like, oh my gosh, somebody sees what it costs to carry it all.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because only after you are witnessed and feel deeply seen can you actually say, is there something I want to do about this?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something I want to change?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: You have the answers.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: You're actually a lot more intelligent than I am about your own life.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: But we need a witness.
• 26:39
  Kate Woodward Young: You know, I think one of the only word of wisdom I would give anybody who downloads chapter one, reads the book, is don't think this is a quick read.
• 26:48
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh no, to me, this is a, you know, you gotta pause and sit with it.
• 26:52
  Kate Woodward Young: Like, you know, sometimes we've got those, you know, kind of fluffy books or even business books or leadership books that you can kind of just zoom through, right?
• 27:01
  Kate Woodward Young: This is not one, if you do it, in my opinion, the way you intended, which is to make you pause and go, what is what have I taken for normal?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Kate Woodward Young: What do I want my new normal to look like?
• 27:15
  Kate Woodward Young: And who or what do I need to make that happen?
• 27:18
  Kate Woodward Young: Because in some, for some folks, it might be a whole new change of of thinking.
• 27:25
  Kate Woodward Young: It might be new vocabulary.
• 27:27
  Kate Woodward Young: So I think that that was the part that really struck me as I was going through the book is okay.
• 27:33
  Kate Woodward Young: And again, I think it's also worth having components of books that maybe challenge you or maybe you don't always agree with.
• 27:41
  Kate Woodward Young: Because there are components of this book that I love the concept, but I struggled personally with the vocabulary.
• 27:48
  Kate Woodward Young: But the more I sat with it, the more I came back to go, now I see why that's the word she chose.
• 27:55
  Kate Woodward Young: Oh, interesting.
• 27:55
  Kate Woodward Young: Because to me it wasn't necessarily instinctured.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually curious, Katie.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a specific example?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love this because I I love how we riff with each other.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate your.
• 28:04
  Kate Woodward Young: A lot of it is the it was that whole delegating and systems, right?
• 28:09
  Kate Woodward Young: So because to me, these are words that have become such a buzz.
• 28:12
  Kate Woodward Young: Everybody needs a system, everybody needs a system, everybody needs a system.
• 28:15
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 28:16
  Kate Woodward Young: And um the more I hear phrases, the more I like them less, right?
• 28:21
  Kate Woodward Young: Like, you know, it's like, I just want a system.
• 28:25
  Kate Woodward Young: I mean, but yet I absolutely operate in color-coded checklists and systems, right?
• 28:31
  Kate Woodward Young: So, like, I mean, I operate there.
• 28:33
  Kate Woodward Young: So I had to kind of reflect in the book and kind of figure out, okay, well, what did that mean to me?
• 28:40
  Kate Woodward Young: What did that mean to you?
• 28:41
  Kate Woodward Young: And although the dictionary has the same definition, sure.
• 28:47
  Kate Woodward Young: How I internalize it is going to be different.
• 28:50
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think that that's what I loved about this book is that it allowed me the opportunity to kind of pause and reflect on phrases, on, on topics, on and get somebody else's point of view.
• 29:03
  Kate Woodward Young: Because again, we don't talk about this.
• 29:05
  Kate Woodward Young: Like things like this are things that leaders at in all cases, but predominantly women, people who are in multiple circles wearing multiple hats, which often we lump into women, right?
• 29:17
  Kate Woodward Young: So I, you know, I'm trying really hard to remember that I have met men who are single dads, who run their own business, who basically have the weight of the world on them just like we do.
• 29:28
  Kate Woodward Young: And sometimes we forget that, right?
• 29:31
  Kate Woodward Young: So sometimes, you know, so sometimes there is that pause.
• 29:34
  Kate Woodward Young: But yes, I absolutely think 99% of the female leaders I know absolutely fall into this book as far as at some point in time in their life, maybe not yet, maybe it was 20 years ago, but they absolutely can relate to probably 80% of the book going and check, check, check with substance.
• 29:56
  Kate Woodward Young: And sometimes we realize it and sometimes we have the words, we have the the support system.
• 30:01
  Kate Woodward Young: Yeah.
• 30:01
  Kate Woodward Young: But I think a lot of times more than not, we don't have that support system because we haven't identified what the real issue is.
• 30:09
  Kate Woodward Young: And I think you're not going to be able to do that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you said support system because when a leader comes to me overwhelmed and that they're exhausted, the first question I ask is not what's in your calendar, what's your time management, what's your system, what's your the first question I ask is who's your support structure?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Who is in your life?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Are you married?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Does do you have a spouse that's functional?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you're single, are you divorced?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have um parents that live nearby?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have friends?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have caretakers at home?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a nanny?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, who's your support structure?
• 30:41
  Kate Woodward Young: Who do you pay?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: In my case, it was who did I pay?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you are a woman that is isolated, which a lot of women are, come to me isolated, your capacity to do certain things, that's part of the witnessing piece, which is before we talk, she's like, but how do I fix this?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: We're not on fixing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: You need to recognize the weight that you're carrying and recognize that you can survive feeling it.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you cannot feel the weight and the depth of how lonely you actually are and how isolated you are, you actually will rarely reach out for help.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because every time you reach out, it's an attack on your character.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because your character tells you in order to survive, I must do this alone.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so every time you reach out to me, it's a stab of your survival strategy and your identity.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you will not reach out to me, even though I have an entire lifeboat system here for you.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: You will never encounter the system because every time you encounter it, your mind says, Don't do that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, what do you mean?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: I need help.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: That means I'm weak.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can't be weak.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: How am I ever going to survive my life?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Run, run, run.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they run for the hills, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: And my team's always like, Why are they running?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what do you mean why are they running?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: They're running because I signal to them, oh my God, I'm weak.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm falling apart.
• 31:57
  unknown: Yep.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: But don't.
• 31:59
  Kate Woodward Young: All right.
• 32:00
  Kate Woodward Young: So to continue the conversation, make sure you go download chapter one.
• 32:03
  Kate Woodward Young: Yes.
• 32:04
  Kate Woodward Young: Go find the Substack.
• 32:06
  Kate Woodward Young: All the links for everything are in our show notes.
• 32:08
  Kate Woodward Young: So please, please, please uh go check them out.
• 32:11
  Kate Woodward Young: There's actually some additional resources in this week's newsletter.
• 32:15
  Kate Woodward Young: So if you aren't already on the newsletter, go jump on the web, go to the website, childcareconversations.com.
• 32:21
  Kate Woodward Young: Make sure you're on the newsletter because sometimes we drop things in the newsletter that you don't get in the show notes.
• 32:27
  Kate Woodward Young: And so, you know, there are 125 countries and 25,000 of you that get that newsletter every week.
• 32:34
  Kate Woodward Young: So we want you to connect and uh know that those resources are available because this absolutely is not normal.
• 32:42
  Kate Woodward Young: Thank you so much for joining us for today's conversation, and we can't wait to talk to you in a few days.
• 32:48
  Kate Woodward Young: Bye.
• 32:49
  Kate Woodward Young: Thank you.
• 32:53
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• 32:54
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• 33:03
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• 33:18
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• 33:23
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