Latest / Real State / North Carolina’s Approach to Disaster Resilience, with Rep. Mark Pless

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North Carolina’s Approach to Disaster Resilience, with Rep. Mark Pless · Real State

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And we try to help incentivize businesses to come to North Carolina.
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And this just falls right into that economic development side.
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If we don't invest and they can't invest, then we're going to continue to lose
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as a direct result of this natural disaster.
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This is Real State, a podcast from CSG South.
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Join us as we talk with policymakers and public leaders shaping state
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level decisions across the South and explore how ideas move
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from policy to real impact.
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Hello and welcome to Real State.
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I'm your host, Lindsey Gray.
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Across the South, states are facing an increasing number
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of natural disasters from hurricanes and flooding
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to severe storms and infrastructure strain.
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These events are not only testing emergency response systems,
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but also shaping how states plan, budget and build resilience for the future.
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North Carolina has been at the center of this conversation,
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responding to multiple major disasters in recent years.
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Today, we're joined by Representative Mark Pless,
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a legislator, first responder, and chair of the House Emergency Management and
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Disaster Recovery Committee.
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He has been directly involved in guiding recovery efforts across
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Western North Carolina. His district has faced a series of significant challenges
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from the pandemic to tropical storm-fred to most recently,
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hurricane, haline. Representative Pless, thank you for being with us today.
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Thank you for inviting me.
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So let's jump in. Before we get into specific policies,
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I want to start with your unique perspective, serving both as a policy maker
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and a first responder. You've experienced disasters both on the ground
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and in the legislature. So how does that dual-perspective shape the way you approach
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disaster policy in North Carolina?
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You know, a lot of times legislators and other folks,
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they don't have a background in the particular areas that they have to deal with.
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I've been fortunate having spent 30 years doing rescues being in the water,
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doing the initial aftermath, and helping the community through
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little disasters that come about from time to time.
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So I got to see a different side of it that most people never get to see.
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My hard part was with tropical storm-fred, figuring out what a legislator is supposed to do,
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because I had not been one of those, but about eight months when that happened.
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So I had to have a lot of help from then-speaker more to try to get me
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with the right footing so that I could be a benefit to those folks.
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But I think the thing that it brings to the table the most,
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government is not always in the middle of everything.
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A lot of times things go by, and folks just accept the fact that government is too large,
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and they don't need to be in your daily lives, but when it comes to disaster,
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that's entirely different. They are relying on us to be able to help them.
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And that's one of the things that helped me to know that, hey, if you're not fighting for them,
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tropical storm-freds are going to come and go. These lives are going to be destroyed.
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These homes are going to be damaged, and they're going to be that way 10 years from now,
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as people try to recover. They're only hope in some of these situations is the government.
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And when you think about these events, like tropical storm-fred and hurricane Helene,
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along with the economic disruptions that your district has experienced, such as a large
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mill closure, which we've had several of those across the southern states,
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what lessons from those experiences have most directly influenced policy decisions in the general
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simply that you've seen and you've been a part of? You know, over the last three terms,
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there's been so many things go wrong. It seems in our county that it's been nice to be able to help.
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The mill closure came at one of the worst times. It had been anticipated for years,
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but tropical storm-fred was in the just barely in the rear-view mirror. We were moving forward
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with that. Our town was trying its best to get back on its feet. Well, now their main supplier of
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tax revenue announces that they're closing. So they're losing the income tax, they're losing the
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sales tax, and now they're losing property tax. So how do you help a community recover
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when their largest employer, over a thousand employees, is suddenly saying,
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okay, we're closing the door in three to four months. We're not going to be here to help see you through
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this. It was definitely eye-opening, and it was difficult to see and explain to a lot of folks
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in Raleigh. Fortunately, I have a good group down there, and they paid real close attention,
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and they were willing to hear me whenever I would tell them now this was going to impact.
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So they stepped up, and we've had some extra money for several years now,
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and they were willing to let us have that money to try to help keep the speed under them and the
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county, till they could find a way to get back on their feet by themselves. And I'm glad you had the
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general assembly backing you for a lot of those transitions. You've certainly taken more hits than
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some of the other areas that we've seen in the south. So those real-world experiences often translate
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directly into health states, allocate resources, and prioritize investment, which you just shared
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some of that. So over the past two years, what have been the most significant investments? North
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Carolina has made a disaster response and resilience through the state budget. I know there's been more
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efforts done besides that, the efforts directly in your county, but some that are statewide as well.
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So what does those look like for the state budget? We were able to get some funding out there for
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department of transportation. A lot of our roads get washed away when we have these storms,
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and they have been able to go back in, and when they rebuild this time, they had money dedicated to
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putting in larger culverts to changing the drainage systems, to doing things that are going to keep
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those same roads that wash out time after time. They're able to not have to deal with that. And then
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we recently got 20 million that went to the local governments. So now they can actually decide how
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they spend it. There were some awards given out in the last few weeks by the governor's office to
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some communities that had passed through that money to where they were going to be able to do things.
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They ordinarily would not. They'll take any help we can get, but a lot of times FEMA and even the
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state just says build it back the way it was. Well, now they're able to change the way they do that.
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The one that I really enjoy the most I was able to champion was for the fire service. A lot of folks
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do not understand that most fire departments are not county employees. They're not city employees.
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They are private contracted fire departments. So most folks don't understand they don't qualify for
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a lot of public assistance. So I was able to get them $50,000 per department in the lean area to compensate
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for some of the things that insurance just wouldn't cover the fuel that they were having to spend,
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the things that they were having to do in order to protect their community for months on end.
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They would have just been out that money and it would have inhibited their ability to grow and their
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ability to keep up to date with things that are going on. So we were able to get about 18 million
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to split among all of those departments. And at the end it wound up being a great plan,
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a great idea. And they were very appreciative of the abilities to keep going the things that
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they're doing. Some of them are still in the process of spending their money, but it went kind
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of unrestricted. It's for anything that they feel that was necessary for their district other than
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hiring folks. Oh well, that is amazing. That is definitely a new fact that I did not know,
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but we've all seen those videos with the roads being washed away in North Carolina and their
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tragic. And so it is nice that you all are rethinking how to build those when you have the
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opportunity to put those back. So as the chair of the emergency management and disaster recovery
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committee, how do you all evaluate? You know, whether those investments are helping communities
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recover. Of course, you've just mentioned the firefighters, the fire department as well as
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rebuilding infrastructure. But I'm sure you'll still have to evaluate those investments and
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making sure that money is going where you all attended it for it to go. So especially in the
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areas that you've experienced repeated disasters, just how are you all evaluating that investment
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and not recovery effort? We're in a position now that we're the money is just now being spent.
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It takes a while to get government money out to where it needs to be. We also have a shortage of
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contractors, which most people don't realize. We were able to expand our Western Carolina University
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engineering school a couple of years ago. They are in the process of fixing it because we recognized
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early before this that we didn't have enough folks to rebuild when things happened. So now we're
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in the middle of that. The college will be able to help us in a few years with some more engineers
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that can fit this together. But I guess the easiest answer to that is we're going to have to wait
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until this is work is completed and then evaluate the small storms and see how the impact change.
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Department transportation does a really good job of keeping an eye on things and they will be
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letting us know, hey, this didn't work or this did work based off of some of the storms that we'll
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see. It's not unusual to get a seven or eight inch rain storm. It took 20 inches or more for the
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damage that everyone saw. But we'll have some small storms to see if it's working over the next
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couple of years when they get their work finished. Wonderful. Well, I'm sure you'll all be watching
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that closely and watching these communities and making sure that they're able to have that
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resilience aspect, not just recovery. So looking specifically at the 2026 legislative session,
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which you all are still in, what additional priorities or gaps are shaping the conversations
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around disaster funding at the state level? You know, one of our biggest things that we have
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tried to do in the last four years has been private roads and bridges. That's not something that
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typically the state of North Carolina has helped a whole lot with. We have run out of money
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for what was done with Helene. There's a few things that are being done. I believe in correctly.
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So we're going to have to go and have some conversations when we get back later on in April.
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Department of Transportation has criteria to rebuild roads, bridges, things like that. Well,
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they've taken and applied some of those to emergency management's rebuild of these private roads
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and bridges. So we think they're building larger than what is necessary. So we're going to have to
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evaluate that and reach a consensus on how much more money, because according to what we
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put out so far, they have already spent every bit of that and they need several million dollars more
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in order to be able to finish the project. And we don't want funds to be left out, but we're going to
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have to have some some heart-to-heart conversations about that. The other side of that is going back
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to the fire departments. We have a lot of fire stations that are destroyed. We have a lot of them that
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can no longer function. They are able to get some FEMA help in some of those situations,
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but it's only what they can go back to. Some of them need to be relocated. So we're going to have a
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conversation about getting them out of farm's way. FEMA does it usually tell them you have to move,
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but they recommend it, but these fire departments are strapped and they're not capable of moving on
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their own. So that's wanting to be one of the real big conversations, the private roads and bridges.
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And then what are we going to do about these fire departments? Where when the emergency happens,
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they're not having to try to protect their own house, they're able to help everyone else.
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It's such a complex layered issue. And unfortunately, it's likely never ending with the disasters that
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we're seeing hit our southern states in particular. So disaster recovery often depends on strong
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federal state coordination, particularly through FEMA, which you just mentioned. And from your perspective,
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what is North Carolina's experience shown about where that partnership works well? And where timelines
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or requirements can create challenges for communities trying to recover?
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You know, I think a lot of folks misunderstand what FEMA does, what their role in this is,
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what the state's role in this is, what local governments role is. It took me a little while to
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figure that out. I had my practice storm with tropical storm red because it pretty much was mostly
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my district, was the areas that were affected the most. FEMA is there to help folks in the initial
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onset. They need housing, they need clothing, they need their furnishings, they need all of these
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things done. So FEMA plays that role. And once they transition out of getting money directly to people,
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which the state of North Carolina, we're not allowed to do that. We can't hand anyone money,
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but the federal government can through the FEMA program. So once they get them stabilized there,
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FEMA starts the evaluation process of how are we going to help local governments? How are we going
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to help rebuild roads? The assessment part of that is very slow. It's very frustrating. And you know,
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if I could speed it up, I would, but there's not a way for me to tell them how to do it. But I have
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noticed that some of the safeguards they have in place are beneficial. Their biggest challenge
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so far seems to be keeping people to do the assessments and the evaluations. Those are contract
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positions that come and go. Some folks do it and don't decide that really what they wanted to do.
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So they just don't sign back up again. So that puts a new contractor doing it. We're able to take
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their assessments, their evaluations, and we're able to come back in on the backside of that and help
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supplement some of that funding so that these projects can continue so far. We have tried to take
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everything off of local government to where the state of North Carolina can pay the match. We have
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a lot of money setting there waiting on those days to happen. If they need to expand or they need
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to do something that FEMA won't allow, then we need to have a different conversation with them.
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And it may be that ultimately if they want to do things a little better or a little different than
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where they were, they may have to put some money forward in order to do it the way they want. But we're
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going to try our best to make sure that we supplement what FEMA does and help local governments to
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not have to make that investment. And you know, beyond funding and you just touched on this a
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little bit, so it might go just to touch deeper. So beyond funding, policy, design plays a major role
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and how effectively states can respond and recover. So what types of policies, whether related to
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infrastructure, emergency management coordination or rebuilding, has proven most effective in strengthening
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North Carolina's disaster resilience. And to that end, from the state perspective, since there is a
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federal and a local government perspective as you just walked through and having to figure off
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that out. So what is proven to be most effective in strengthening North Carolina's disaster resilience
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from a state perspective? Helping the folks at home was a challenge through Matthew and Florence,
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which happened in 2016 and 2018. Fortunately, I was placed on the committee for oversight. After
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tropical storm Fred, I had a different perspective on some of that. So they put me on the committee.
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And we were able to learn that a lot of our policies and a lot of the things that we were doing
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did not work in 2016 and 2018, but we didn't change any of it. We left it alone because either the
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general assembly didn't dig deep enough or there was too many things going on by the time they
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realized the failures for them to be able to really dig into it. So we found that whenever they're
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building homes, we were making folks bid at low amounts. When in fact, through HUD, they could do up to
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250,000 per individual without having to bid for anything. So we were slowing down rebuilding houses
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because of our own policies and the way we had to do things. So we relaxed that in a bill and made it
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to where we matched what the federal government said was acceptable. We still have our accountability
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and the things that we need to make sure that they don't step over that. But as the rebuild process
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goes for homes, it should move faster. The other side of that is we had to change a little bit and allow
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our inspectors to come from Raleigh to go to these areas and allow them to be able to go in and
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make sure that everything was built back to code and things were done correctly. We made a minor mistake
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in that whenever we were doing it and didn't realize that we were sending folks in to say yes,
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you can do this, but they didn't have the authority to sign to say that yes, you can do it. So we were
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actually overburdening the locals because now the inspector there still had to go out and either
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take the word of a total stranger or view it themselves. So even though we had allowed things to
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happen, maybe that wasn't the best way to handle it. So we've had some positives and we've had
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some things that well, maybe we should have thought that through just a little bit further.
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There's always lesson learned in these things and even states that are not dealing with as many
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disasters as North Carolina has faced over the last couple of years are grappling with housing issues
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very similar to what you just explained. So I can't imagine if you layer disaster response on top of
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that, just all the things that North Carolina has tackled and the lessons to your point that have
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come out of those, those learnings. So you've also supported targeted efforts like assistance for
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short-line railroads impacted by Hurricane Helene and you mentioned earlier with the firefighters
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and the fire departments. So how do those more focused policy actions fit into the broader recovery
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strategy? Well most people whenever they look at the short-line railroads they don't understand
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what's truly at stake because you kind of take them for granted. You don't see them. They travel
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areas that most people, they may have to stop for a crossing periodically but they really don't know
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what they do. Were that finally hits home during tropical storm Fred, I learned a lot about him because
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of Blue Ridge Railroad. They were part of the paper meal and they were delivering to the meal.
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Well they had a lot of damage so we were able to go in and help them to stay vibrant and be able to
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continue to service our meal because of the amount of damage they had. Well when the meal closed
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that took a lot of their cars offline to where they were not going to be profitable. So whenever we had
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this happen with Hurricane Helene I have a manufacturing facility in Wainsville that has about 350
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employees. They were paying $70,000 a week for content to be brought for them to continue manufacturing
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because the rail line was offline. So when you did the numbers you looked at the loss from the paper meal
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it wound up being that we had a major problem. Why would they build that rail back without us helping
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them for a few customers that were not the paper meal that we had lost? So it was not profitable. It was
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not something that we felt they would do but great smokey mountains railroad also brings in tourism.
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They bring in almost 300,000 people a year close to $2, 210 billion dollars, I'm sorry, $210 million
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in revenue. So what ends up happening whenever we go without them we lose the people that we need in
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Western North Carolina. We put money forward for advertising so that everyone would realize Western
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North Carolina was open but if the rail line is destroyed and they can't take those rides and they
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can't pay then we're losing out hotels. We're losing out restaurants. We're losing out the other
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events that people do while they're here in Anaheila Outdoor Center. A lot of things bring folks to this
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area but the train is kind of key to it. So without some kind of help we were going to lose a lot of money
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and we try to help incentivize businesses to come to North Carolina and this just falls right into
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that economic development side. If we don't invest and they can't invest then we're going to continue
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to lose as a direct result of this natural disaster. Just so many people were impacted by this
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and North Carolina operates a bit differently than many states when it comes to the legislative
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structure. So North Carolina does not have a traditional constitutional signi die and the
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legislature is effectively able to remain in session year round. So how has that structure
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influenced the state's ability to respond to disasters in real time and how has it impacted it?
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You know when I first ran for office I was told you're going to go in in January you're going
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to go out around July 1 you're going to be okay till next year and you're going to come back. Well
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that's not been my reality. It may have been the reality before but I think COVID is what actually
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changed that from everything that everyone has told me in the legislature. They come to realize
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that even though we're a part-time legislature there are real time needs annually that come up
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and if we're not in session we can't deal with those. We can't address those in any way shaped
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form or fashion. We have to wait till we're back and a lot of times that crisis or that emergency
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or that need is is gone by the time we get back or the destruction from not being able to meet
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that need. So we check in about every three or four weeks we have some dates that are listed in
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there and if there's nothing for us to do we don't come back. A lot of certain rolly doing oversight
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hearings and things like that right now anyway. So it usually coordinates with at least one of those
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weeks that we're supposed to be back that I have to be back in rolly anyway. So we can deal with things
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having that puts a real great piece of mind to me because I know from my experiences we don't get
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to work on a calendar time. So tropical storm fred was in August we would have been home
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hurricane Helene. We would have been home had we have not been in session then there's not a way
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that we could have done anything. So I like the model it gets tiring and a lot of folks wonder why we're
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in rolly all the time as a part-time legislature but you know it's worked out well for the last six
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years. And disasters don't know holidays disasters don't know session so it is nice that you'll have
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a little bit of that flexibility to remain focused and that continuity that some of our other
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states may or may not get they'll have to be called into special session to deal with that. So
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do you think that flexibility is accelerated y'all's response and recovery efforts in North Carolina?
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It does we are able to put some folks together named committees like for the Helene community and
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folks can begin work before we show back up in rolly to have a conversation. So I think that having
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that game plan and the ability to be flexible has helped us out greatly. I have friends that are
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in other legislators and other states and they come in they have a set period of days that they
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come in and then they go home. If we had a set period of days that we came in and then we went home
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I think North Carolina would suffer and we're still growing we're 10 and a half million people
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and that requires a lot of work as well. The speaker works harder than any of us. He is at it 24/7
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and I appreciate everything that he does but it is nice to be able to come back and help the folks.
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This all raises a broader question on how states position themselves over time. So with North
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Carolina's response to major events like hurricane Helene where do you see the state leading either
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regionally or nationally in disaster resilience and response? You know I think most of the time from
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the conversations I've had folks do not recognize the role that the legislature can play. I have had
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some conversations with folks in other states that have experienced emergencies disasters and they
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didn't. Before it happened they didn't really understand the impact they could have and I think
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now that they are in the storm and they recognize the fact that you know what people are looking to the
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state to lead local governments looking to the state to lead because they have a fixed revenue
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and they have a hard time just surviving day to day in some of these communities because they don't
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have a lot of money. The state of North Carolina has avenues that we have been able to tell other
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folks. You know they're looking for you they want you there. We may not want to be in the middle of
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everything but sometimes our money needs to be in the middle of everything so that we can make people's
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lives better and I think that's been our greatest influence so far is the fact of the way we have
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responded through the storms that we've had. Now people see that in these other states that you know
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what maybe it is more about getting to them, getting quickly, getting them the resources. I was in
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Georgia not too long ago and they've done a lot of stuff down towards the southern part because
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they got hit by the same storm we did and I think that some of this is contagious. I'm hopeful that a
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lot of these other states will take the same perspective as we move forward and even though you
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don't have an endless budget you do have a way to shift priorities pretty quickly in order to be
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able to help folks. And what progress over the past several years and that you see upcoming are
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you most encouraged by? You know I think we're going to restructure some of the things that we do
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as far as disaster response and recovery preparation. I was really concerned given my background that
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I saw a lot of YouTube videos of people standing in waste deep water in their housing and that really
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bothers me and we're working on that now to try to get an educational package out to where people
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understand it. At elevation where I'm at it's anywhere from about 2700 feet up to about 6500 feet in my
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area. That's a lot of water coming down hill at a high pace and if it's in your house it's going to
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pick up speed and eventually it's going to wash it away down on the coast unless it's a storm surge you
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don't see that a lot. Water comes up and some folks are used to it but that's the thing that I think
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we're going to be able to make the biggest difference in is getting people aware of you need to
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get to safety. Yes, you're going to be wet. You need to get out get out of your house get up
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somewhere let the responders come and get you take you to a safe place but it's not worth being in
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these homes whenever the storm finally takes the home away. So I think that's going to be our biggest
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focus going into the future is trying to get people to understand this true emergency because most
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people just do not know. Absolutely. I can attest that if I was in that situation I wouldn't quite
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know what to do. I imagine if I lived in an area that dealt with these disasters that I would
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learn or appreciate the opportunity to learn how to respond or if I'm vacationing there how do I
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respond what do I do. And every state is still navigating you know areas for improvement we've talked
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a little bit about this. So when you reflect on hurricane healing and similar events where did you see
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where did the system face a great strain and what gaps still need to be addressed?
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You know I think our greatest strain was no one anticipated you could not get to western
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North Carolina during this storm. A lot of folks wanted to help especially down east because we
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have helped down there so much but this is the first time that I'm aware of that it's actually been
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cut off. There was no way to get here. You could get in from the west you could get in from the north
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you could get in from the east you had to come up from the south out of Greenville, South Carolina
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and I don't think anyone had ever planned on that. We heard a lot of folks that were out at helicopters
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that were going in and getting folks and doing things and I'm grateful that they were able to step
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up and help. No one has ever envisioned this. So I don't know where we go from here but this taught
28:05
us something that we had never seen before as a state and I'm 59 years old I've been doing rescue
28:12
since I was 17 years old in the fire department and this is just unheard of to me. Yeah Hurricane
28:19
Helene just came so fast and impacted so many states. It was just a disaster. I hope we do not see
28:27
again in our lifetime. So as disasters you know become more frequent and complex as you just mentioned
28:34
I mean we work nobody could even foresee that so they're becoming more complex federal disaster
28:41
assistance may become less predictable and there are talks from the federal government of FEMA
28:46
being restructured. I know that's been back in the news recently within the last week.
28:51
So what emerging risks do you believe policymakers need to be prepared for now?
28:57
You know I think our biggest thing that we need to do is we need to make sure we have the money
29:03
on hand to respond. Everybody wants to count on the local governments and the federal governments
29:08
to kind of take care of everything. At the state level we need to have our funds to where we can
29:15
respond. We have five billion with a B in the bank for this kind of an event so far we have spent
29:22
1.4 of that so we've still got about 3.6 left but we need to make sure that as quickly as we can
29:29
that we put that money back because it may be a coastal storm this year or two years from now
29:35
and those folks are going to rely on the exact same thing so I think that's where we need to really
29:39
work hard is making sure that our states are in good enough shape to where they can manage it
29:44
regardless of what the federal government does. The federal government's good about reimbursement
29:48
they're good about helping us but at the end of the day if we're not responding the people that
29:53
in care where the money comes from they just won't help and they want to be able to see things being
29:57
done and see the damage is being repaired and if we fail at that then I think we have failed them.
30:03
And we're seeing a lot of chatter around FEMA and what could come next and even re-categorizing
30:12
what constitutes as a disaster for a certain level of funding to get deployed by FEMA so I just
30:22
know there's a lot of kind of ebbs and flows or things happening on the FEMA level that will
30:27
impact our states and so you make a great point there and you know something I didn't think about
30:33
and I'm not sure why I didn't before we spoke I mean you all have the beautiful mountains from the
30:37
Appalachia and then you also have your beautiful outer banks for the coast so you have several different
30:43
angles that you need to look at for natural disasters and to your point it could be the coast
30:50
next and that is a little bit of a different response and impact as well so just being nimble as a
30:56
state particularly with how you can respond and with that funding seems like it could be the most
31:02
important thing for states to brace for. So many of these challenges aren't unique to North
31:08
Carolina they're shared across southern the southern region many states have similar make-up as
31:16
your state with coastal or mountains some both like North Carolina so are there any lessons
31:24
North Carolina has learned and implemented from other states when it comes to disaster response
31:29
and resilience and what role can organizations like CSG South play in that exchange?
31:36
No I think one of the the components I didn't recognize was how well emergency management connects
31:43
across states I didn't recognize until we started having the response and the recovery part of this
31:50
that we go to other states we had folks on the ground in Texas we have sent folks to Kentucky we've
31:57
sent folks to Tennessee I never paid any attention to that whatsoever so I think we're CSG can come into
32:03
play is that relationship that we have with these states it needs to be pretty solid to wear in the
32:11
event that someone is needed then we can actually send them the resources or they can send us the
32:17
resources like what happened here we need to be able to have that relationship so that when an
32:23
emergency strikes that we can do something about it and you know I think that's one of the biggest
32:27
things that CSG does for us is it gives us an opportunity to get together know some of these folks
32:33
and have a conversation with them so that it is personal it is friends helping friends when things
32:40
come about I think that's going to be one of our future endeavors that you're going to be stuck with
32:46
trying to help put together because I know sometimes legislators are great and sometimes we are
32:51
very difficult people to keep corralled and keep busy because we like to talk but I think that's
32:57
going to be a great advantage to be able to see more and more collaboration between these states
33:02
that's orchestrated through you and since you all several of the states do have similar challenges
33:08
and opportunities I imagine it will be nice to have that network so again if a state has to come
33:15
to respond to your state it's actually something that they may have dealt with before and vice versa and
33:20
and that that exchange of support and help I know has happened quite often so I think that's
33:26
that's wonderful I let if there's any silver lining out of a disaster it might be the the amount of
33:33
camaraderie and kind of grit that comes together in the south in order to get a community back on
33:39
its feet and we we do that well in the south it seems as well as we can and people just rally so
33:48
before we close I want to ask a question that we're posing to all of our real state guests
33:55
so what is the best piece of professional advice you've ever received that influences how you
34:01
lead whether an emergency response or in public service you know I thought I had all the answers to
34:09
the world I have always been one who studies and knows before I ask a question I already have a
34:17
general idea of what the answer should be I spend a lot of time learning and that has served me well
34:26
but I worked at Farm Bureau Insurance and my agency manager at the time I was doing kind of what I
34:34
do best sitting and talking to people and she stopped me one day and she said you know she said
34:42
you're pretty smart she said you definitely know more than most of the other people in this room
34:47
but she said people don't care how smart you are they just care how much you care and when they can
34:55
see that you care then that's when they trust you and that was one of the greatest things that she
35:02
ever did when Wendy told me that I was like I don't know if I like that or not but the more I thought
35:07
about it you know I don't have to tell them everything I know but I do have to intently care about the
35:13
situation that they're in and try to guide them through it and I've tried to apply that here
35:18
in everything that I have done just make sure that that people feel the heart part of it as opposed
35:24
to my mind may be rolling around we're in a world are they going to get this money from
35:29
but they don't need to see that they need to see the fact that I do care about their situation so
35:34
I appreciate her taking the time to tell me that that's just something she noticed in my personality
35:39
well I've had the blessing of seeing your heart in action representative plus so thank you for your
35:45
time and for sharing your perspective on this important issue we truly appreciate your leadership
35:50
and service both in the legislature and on the front lines thank you very much I appreciate this
35:57
well and to our listeners thank you for joining us for this episode of Real State
36:03
we'll continue to explore the leadership decisions and policy strategies
36:07
safe shaping state governments across the south more conversations like this are available
36:13
at csgsouth.org I'm Lindsey Gray let's keep it real. Thank you for joining us today on Real State
36:21
where we keep it real about what really matters.