Latest / FintechOS Evolv / Delivering Banking Transformation: From Mindset to AI at Scale

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Delivering Banking Transformation: From Mindset to AI at Scale · FintechOS Evolv

0:06
Welcome to the FinTech OS Evolve podcast.
0:10
I've traveled again into Europe and I'm here in Serbia, Belgrade, first time for me.
0:15
And I'm delighted to have Nivenka here. We've just quickly rushed in a taxi cab to get here.
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We've just done a panel discussion about digital modernization strategy,
0:25
and of course, AI as well.
0:27
But why don't we start, Nivenka, tell us a bit about your role and the bank
0:32
that you operate in, and just to set the context.
0:35
Yeah, I work in a bank in NLB Comercialna Banca here in Belgrade.
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The bank is a part of the NLB group.
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Currently, I manage banking products delivery.
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Actually, if we would go to the terms like in history, that would be back office.
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And I am a part of various projects involved in the strategy and very much working
1:01
on efficiency in our bank. Yeah.
1:03
Now, usually I do the introductions, but I was going to trip over how to pronounce
1:08
your bank, and I was so afraid of doing it, which is why I got you to do it
1:11
this time around. Excellent.
1:12
So thankfully, you've taken the burden off me, and I will now refer to it as
1:17
the bank from now on, just to save myself any embarrassment.
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But you say you've been at the heart of product delivery here for your bank in Serbia.
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And we just spent the morning talking about digital transformation versus modernization
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and I guess the difference between the two um what's your take on on that here
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for for NLV and of course for the the region itself.
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Yeah. I mean, the transformation is for sure happening.
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The transformation in, I would say, changing the mindset of our people.
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The transformation also from the technological point of view,
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for sure, because that goes hand in hand, especially in these days.
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And I think that's happening all over the market because things are changing so fast.
2:02
The technology is evolving so fast that we actually need to be faster and evolve as we go, actually.
2:09
Yeah, and I guess everybody's stuck on quite an old core, and I guess how you
2:16
build upon that, so you can address those agility and the speed to market and
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the new products that's going to come out here in the region,
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it's pretty fundamental. Yeah, it is.
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Actually, in the terms of a project manager, I would say we are far,
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far from waterfall, which was the way to go for years and years, right?
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We are really focusing on delivering our projects in smaller pieces to have
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the smaller wins, but the wins are here.
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With that, we motivate the colleagues that work on the project.
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And that's the key point of every project are the people behind it.
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The technology, of course, is the enabler.
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But people and business need to know why. The technology is how.
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So that's a big step out of the system and the way of working before towards...
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And everybody seems to be taking that approach now the days of.
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Big bang transformations are kind of disappearing in
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that more modular approach taking
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things in bite-sized chunks delivering value
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confidence momentum um you
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know not very often um a cto ceo a
3:31
board will start a digital transformation that is finishing in
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three five years time and you look back and a
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lot of the executives aren't even there anymore so
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they've forgotten what they've done it for or they've been moved on because it hasn't delivered
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the value that is expecting yeah yeah those days
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are definitely over we we are constantly looking to
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have minimal viable project deliveries um
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and that means that that gives us the opportunity that we are really agile so
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have a small piece done put it into production see if it works maybe it doesn't
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maybe we are too late maybe we did it wrong maybe we didn't listen to the customers
4:08
good enough we We didn't understand their needs.
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So that is actually where we are, the way of working.
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We do still, of course, have projects. We do have the vision.
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We do have the strategy that has to be there.
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But to get there, we take it step by step much faster with delivering or failing
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fast, if I may say so. Yeah, absolutely. That's also important. Yeah.
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And you said before, the mindset and the culture to be able to deliver that
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way in smaller chunks, it.
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It takes a lot to change that in our old-fashioned bank that has been doing
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it in the same way in so many, many years.
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But I think you said the opening game is not necessarily the technology that fails, it's the people.
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It's the people. It's always the people. It has always been the people.
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We just didn't maybe recognize it strongly enough.
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We focused on the technology in the past. This time, we do know with the AI
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coming really strongly, right? Yeah. We do need a new mindset.
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So in our bank, we have this initiative on the bank level, how we engage people
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on the operational level.
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Of course, we do have top management support. We do know where we're going. Yeah.
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The strategy is set, everybody on board. The strategy is there.
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But everybody has to be on board, not just the management.
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I mean, we need to have our people on board. So we started actually looking
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for some champions in our bank that were interested in new technologies or something new,
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whichever works, whatever works, maybe a way of work, maybe the technology, not always.
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And we started spreading it from bottom
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up actually yeah so especially in the operations of the bank where i'm a part
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of um we have started building this little little improvements and started communicating
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to the whole team the team of 100 or 200 people we've done this look.
6:12
Think about it think about how it can help you maybe tomorrow it takes time
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of course it doesn't happen overnight, but if you work on it,
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now it's here, we have the culture here.
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I can easily say that every person
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in operations and now we are spreading all
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over the bank thinks about why am I doing this this way can yeah constantly
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questioning it yeah yeah that's that's the the uh constant improvement mindset
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that we are building actually and and we have the momentum now we have results
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already yeah and when you have the results it's much easier to on board everybody.
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You have the buy-in and especially important when you have the buy-in with the
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seniors because it's not about always about the young people.
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They usually are the first on board, of course. They're interested in new things.
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But the seniors, I mean, we were very happy, very impressed.
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We have colleagues in my team that are really seniors doing their work for 30 years the same way.
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We said, let's try and find another way. Let's look on the market what can help
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us do our jobs efficiently. efficiency, of course, efficiently,
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and maybe learn something new.
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And they were on board from day one that we started with this little project that we had.
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They were on board. And imagine the seniors being able now to understand how
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AI solution works, how the models are trained.
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Imagine the buy-in from other colleagues. I agree.
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I agree. And it's a big part of your role is aligning those business
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stakeholders and the technology stakeholders together to come
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to deliver a customer outcome a project a
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program in a successful way and you know
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having champions to be the
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voice of that and often maybe picking the
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the detractors across the bank and converting them
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into promoters is is is key way and i
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think you said thank and i referred to back to the panel we just come from
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which is stuck in my head which is listening
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to the quietest voice in the room yeah and that's
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so super important and a few people come up to me afterwards and said you know
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what I don't do that actually I listen to the biggest the loudest but actually
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some of the greatest ideas and maybe some of the barriers and some of the some
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of the insights come from people
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who are just maybe not as comfortable in group settings or speaking up.
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That's something you promote. Yeah. And I promote it because I have failed before in some of the tasks.
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And that's brave just to admit it and to say it.
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And you've learned from it. I mean, I don't have problem with admitting it because
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this is the only way we can learn actually as human beings.
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That's my opinion. So I've learned now that every team, whether it's from business,
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whether it's from technology, they have to sit together.
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Whether it's external vendor, we have to accept everybody.
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We are the same team it's not them it's not us
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and then um to add to
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that always be aware of the quietest person
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in the room because most often they
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have something relevant to say maybe they're not
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comfortable as you said maybe i
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don't know they're scared of some you
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know there are always the relationship relationships
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between colleagues yeah the politics of it yeah that
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has to be taken into consideration so um
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the quietest person in the room you don't need
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to address him to ask him in front of everybody if
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you see and you have to actually concentrate to see that if you see that the
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person doesn't speak yeah maybe later on maybe offline if it's online meeting
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let's say yeah um and just nicely approach the the person and say What do you think about it?
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And these people often have good remarks, things that you can address on time.
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And then these people...
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Often feel, I knew that, I said it, but he didn't say it maybe at the right
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time and nobody heard him.
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So yeah, that's a lesson learned actually. It's really an experience.
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I think politics plays a huge role in that.
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But we keep circling back to this mindset and change of the culture that every have a voice.
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And actually, if you're trying to fundamentally change how a
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bank operates or you know a new initiative the people
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have been in that organization for 20 30 years
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that they hold so much intelligence about
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how things are truly done not how they've been
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written how things are truly done how things customers truly get
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around how the staff work their way around systems the little niches they they
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and that's where the efficiencies come from actually cutting out those those
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levels that just don't need to be done so i think i think it's really brave
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and And it's interesting how you then translate that into Serbia as a market
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because we're here today, we've just done a panel,
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we've had many banks here talking about these subjects and obviously I'm not from Belgrade.
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So I find it really interesting, are the banks here...
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Ready for this element of transformation and modernization? How early are they in the journey?
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I would say we are pretty much at the same stage of this journey.
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We are aware, everybody's aware that transformation has to start,
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but I would say actually it started in all of the banks, the transformation.
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It's visible through different channels that you can see they're opening to
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different solutions that they're giving to the market.
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Everybody's here, but everybody, we are learning actually how to do it.
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And one model doesn't fit every bank. Of course, it depends on what you're focusing in.
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So every bank has to recognize where is their human value in where are the values
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of the team that are here and how to build on that.
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Because again and again as I say and I will probably say a few more times the
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technology is the enabler,
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it's not the thing that you should fit to but you need to get the best out of
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it but fit it to your business cases and that's a bit different for every bank
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it depends on the target market that they have or the niches that they work on.
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But I think we are all here I would say
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not just in serbia i would say in europe also maybe
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you mean you're from slovenia yeah i'm from slovenia i
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would say in slovenia also um the transformation in
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the manner of learning how to do
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things differently again i'm returning to
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the mindset of the people right because technology is there there's so many
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different technologies we we can always pick one and do but do you pick so So
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it's such a fast-moving market now with new technology players,
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new initiatives, things that we think we know today,
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even tomorrow, they're changing because that's how fast-paced this is.
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How do you and your bank...
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Look and prioritize these initiatives or evaluate them and say,
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this is the one for us and not just for today, but for tomorrow as well.
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Well, it's a bit tricky these days. Of course, you need to have the strategic
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view on where first the business, right? Where you want to go.
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What do I need to get there? That's the first thing that you're asking.
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Where is the value for the customer?
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Always customer first, then employee experience. um
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so how do i get there and then
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when we go sometimes we have internal development sometimes
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we work with a partner it's a combination and that's okay
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it's healthy this way i think um but when
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we decide okay um that's the solution we want
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to have we see something on the market we go into
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the processes of procurement of course we um
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as we have to and um lately
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we decide okay we this one fits
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best today and it can fit um
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for a year two three but we are aware that within this period of one two three
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years it depends there will be new things on the market maybe much better also
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it's on the partners if this is a partner solution that they involve evolve their.
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Technology they need to constantly invest in their platforms yeah
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they need to constantly invest and from the other
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side we need to constantly follow what's happening and
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um so actually strategically we
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don't sign contracts for 10 years anymore i mean it wouldn't make sense at all
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you're just locked in yeah you're just locked in and then you have an issue
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because maybe somebody is not able to deliver what you need yeah um so my latest
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experience was we signed the contract for three years,
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but within these three years, we today already know, we have implemented this,
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but we today already know that there are better solutions on the market,
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Of course, we expect the provider that we have today to also upgrade the solution.
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But maybe we will check the market within this time of three-year period and see maybe to change.
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Because today, to add another satellite in our technology stack,
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right? It's not that hard anymore.
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It's not like it used to be the integration because we are much more mature in that manner.
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So, yeah, constantly...
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Researching the market but of course we
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need to do the job so we need to take the decisions yeah
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um sooner rather later i
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can say um and that's the
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way we do things i think you're right i think um this i
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think is on uh technology platforms to
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really be aligned with banks vision
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and where they're trying to get to and banks need
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to be open about what their strategy years and not be
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a closed door and actually talk really openly about it and be
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honest that maybe they're in retail banking and they want to
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move into SME or capital markets or corporate and
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then the platforms look at their capabilities and be
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honest about where that roadmap sits and where they can
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solve the problem today and work with you and co-create co-design
16:48
the future aspects of the proposition you
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want to deliver but you hear this term partnership
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all the time and I sometimes used a bit loosely but the true
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partnership is where the bank and the the
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ecosystem provider are truly working together and
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they're informing each other's roadmap so not only is the the
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bank saying actually we're going to get capital markets can you help code design
17:10
some customer journeys some products but then also the provider going to the
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bank actually you know what we're talking to a lot of people it's a niche here
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for you it's you know young savers and actually the big banks aren't interested
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and here's some of the features that we think could be really cool and that That becomes really,
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that becomes a true form of partnership, brings loyalty.
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And suddenly then you're in the three year, it's a no brainer to be,
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that's the partner for you and you can grow.
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And I think that level of honesty is starting to get there and I'm starting
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to see it as well where banks are okay with that.
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And so it just gets abounded. And the other thing I'd say about,
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he's talking about digital transformation and human, if I could change one thing,
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I would switch the two words around and rather it'd be digital transformation,
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I'd call it transformation with digital because so much empathy gets put on
17:58
the word digital that people forget to transform.
18:01
Yes, that's exactly why I always emphasize the people.
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The technology is here. Yes, we are digital, but the people are important.
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The people, of course, from one hand, the people that work in a bank,
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so our employees, and from the other hand, our customers.
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I mean, we are here for our customers, right? Yeah.
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So, I agree totally with your proposal to change it. Switch it around.
18:27
Switch it around. Absolutely. yeah and i guess all these
18:31
initiatives uh and they're endless right um
18:34
they they cost money let's be honest about they cost a
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lot of money um and there'll always
18:40
be skepticism on are they
18:43
going to deliver first of all they're going to deliver the customer outcomes that's the
18:46
key thing but also are they going to have a
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if there's a cfo in the room but say are they going to return on the
18:52
investment and i guess there's two sides of
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the coin which is yeah you know you can spend money to to
18:57
make money ultimately nobody's a charity but there's also we need to do this
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because if we don't do it here is the outcome so it's going to cost money it
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might not even return but if we don't do it we're going to lose our customers
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to competitors down the road or you know we've got to do it to keep the wheels
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turning or fear of whatever it might be so you i know you do but you've seen
19:15
a few business cases in the past and.
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What's what how do you start to measure them and what's the kpis and the metrics
19:21
that you truly measure to see if there's success or not?
19:28
We truly, truly measure the processes, the efficiency of the processes when
19:33
it comes to the processes of the bank, right?
19:35
From the other hand, we measure, of course, our profit through our fees and interest rates.
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So that's another metric.
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But it all comes down to each individual business case.
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Behind every idea, there should be a business case.
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Yeah, absolutely. Maybe at the end of this business case, there's just a competition is here.
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They are all on this train and we need to join the train.
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Sometimes it's that. In majority of cases, of course, we always try to find
20:13
something that we can either lower the costs or make more profit. Of course, we are a bank.
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But the business cases are crucial. And again, it depends on the case where
20:26
we look for the benefits, because benefits can be different.
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And I think when we discuss efficiency...
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As a business case, at the end, this efficiency should be seen also towards the customers.
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How? We are faster, most probably, if we are efficient.
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We are faster. Maybe we have done something on the quality of our deliveries, right?
20:51
And that comes from this efficiency also. So I think it's hand in hand.
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It's not either one or the second, but it's somehow connected.
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And I say this a lot of times to my colleagues when
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we are discussing internal processes within my team and
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what can we do more about it and how can we be faster and
21:12
more efficient and there's always somebody that asks
21:15
but what does the customer has out of this I mean we are investing our money
21:21
into this but of course the customer has at the end if nothing else on time
21:28
whatever we need to deliver and with the exact data as we are obliged to give them,
21:33
as we are regulated, and faster.
21:36
That's important for the customer. Yeah, the voice of the customer is really...
21:40
There was a story, I think, I can't remember who it was, I think it might have
21:45
been Amazon, or one of the big tech companies, that whenever they have a board meeting...
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They always leave an empty chair. And the reason an empty chair is because they
21:56
say, what does the customer think? And they point to the empty chair.
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And it's always the comeback.
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And it's interesting because ultimately, even in Serbia, the expectations of
22:06
a customer is no different to a customer in the UK, in Moldova,
22:10
in Romania, even in the States.
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It's being digitally enabled. The next generation, or even my son's 18,
22:18
that generation of new customers, expect banking at the fingertips.
22:25
Interesting that you're mentioning this because I had an opportunity to work
22:28
with a group of students.
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We have a program that we invite students that are actually still studying to
22:37
our bank to get to know the banking.
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They're not necessarily students of economy, but to get to know the banking.
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And I had the opportunity and it was a great pleasure to work with for wonderful girls.
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Well, women. And I've asked them after the discussion how the bank works,
22:59
how we operate, how much we are regulated, and where we are towards digitalization and so on.
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And I said, what do you expect? You're 20, 21.
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What do you expect from a bank? And all four said, I don't ever want to step into the branch.
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This is all I need. Here's my phone.
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Here's my phone. That's all I need. So make sure you're there.
23:25
So, I mean, we all know that, right? We are thinking about it.
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It doesn't matter if you're 20, 30, 40.
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Actually, in these days, who wants to go to the branch?
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But the message was so strong, so loud, actually.
23:42
Don't even think about if you want to attract us as the younger generations.
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And we need to attract, of course, the younger generations.
23:51
If you want to have as your clients then don't
23:55
make me go to a branch ever ever yeah right
23:58
so that's that's i think very important and i
24:01
think it is my uh my son recently opened
24:04
up i mean they come from a family of bankers my dad was a banker 40 years before
24:08
me so you know it's not a new concept for him but uh even as 18 year old he
24:12
had to open up his first uh kind of student account with many banks and we looked
24:18
at so many of the big banks in the UK and we got so fine in the process and he's like dad I'm.
24:24
I'm bored now this is just hard work and he just wanted the path of least resistance,
24:29
and so you then step to the neobanks that give this
24:32
fantastic app experience now we
24:35
all know that there's maybe there's not much behind that but you know
24:38
they've kept captulated that young audience that
24:41
want the the banking at the fingertips and they make
24:44
it um as fun as it possibly could be to onboard
24:47
and to open a bank account those are features that are relevant for
24:50
that card trade that this kind of hyper personalization of features
24:54
that at life stages of people's uh
24:57
so they've really captured that market um and
25:01
then in the post came a physical debit card he kind of literally went what do
25:07
i do with that and he literally i mean he's moved he's gone to university now
25:11
that bank card is still in his desk at home he's never going to use that bank
25:15
card it's it's on the phone it's that it's apple pay or whatever it might be
25:19
and it just made me to giggle because I thought.
25:21
Yeah, that's it. Today, that's it. That's it for the younger. That's absolutely it.
25:27
Our generations, if I may say so, we are still, of course, I have everything on the phone. Yes.
25:33
But I always carry just in case my card with me.
25:37
Maybe the phone will not work. Maybe something happened, right?
25:40
Yeah. But I also see this with my daughter. She's 27 years old.
25:45
The phone is her life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. there's
25:48
no discussion about it so yeah being being
25:51
able to follow that expectation to deliver
25:54
on that expectation that's a job because realistically that
25:59
affects also the business models of the
26:02
banks in the future and that future is not so far
26:05
far away yeah as you mentioned already
26:08
some of the other competition that it's not the banking industry
26:11
but they have it they have all these gadget features
26:14
that are very interesting right um so
26:17
the banking models i think in a
26:20
very near future we'll have to adapt to this new
26:23
reality that we are living in and whoever doesn't adapt well most probably will
26:29
not be for long on the market just to make you feel better in my pocket i do
26:34
still have debit cards and i still have some cash i can't remember i I just used it.
26:41
I even got some local currency, just in case. Just in case. Because it's just in case.
26:46
What happens if they don't accept
26:48
Applebee? What if they don't accept a card? I better have some cash.
26:52
If my son arrived here yesterday as I did and...
26:57
Had to order a taxi and pay
27:00
cash or card he wouldn't get very far and he'd be like
27:02
but he is responsible that this is terrible it's a
27:05
terrible experience and his entry point into the country
27:08
would be like yeah this is a bad experience bad
27:11
experience it's digitally enabled how can i possibly operate as
27:14
a human being without using my phone to to make
27:16
payments and schedule things and my my uh
27:19
advice to my daughter when she travels always is do
27:23
a bit of a checkup on the country that you're traveling to because
27:26
different countries are in different stages of involvement
27:29
of digital right there are some countries which
27:33
there's still a lot of cash so do a bit of research just
27:36
be prepared that you don't land on the airport and
27:39
you cannot get a taxi because you don't have a cash because also
27:42
atms are now being withdrawn from the markets very much yeah um also on the
27:49
market of the i mean on the area of european union there's a quite a strong
27:54
push towards withdrawing the cash out of the cashless society.
27:59
There are some fights back now, I mean, expected, if you ask me.
28:05
But yeah, the younger generations, absolutely, digital, digital, end-to-end digital.
28:12
They don't care how in behind that works. And this behind part that actually
28:18
is the bank as today is will for sure be changed in a few years,
28:23
how it will look, how many people will be needed.
28:27
Different skills actually maybe the number will not
28:30
dressed drastically drop yeah uh the
28:33
number of employees maybe not but the skills will be
28:36
different yeah right they expect the skills to have
28:39
on daily on on your job uh to
28:42
operate with this is for sure changing how is
28:45
your bank doing in terms of this digital label uh onboarding you
28:49
know having a great onboarding journey for current account savings
28:52
for retail for sma even
28:56
into lending how are you getting on in that journey yeah we
28:59
we are on the journey for um for some
29:02
segments we already are there for some we
29:05
are still working we also have some legislation maybe
29:09
that needs to be addressed or maybe challenged a bit
29:12
yeah absolutely but um i mean
29:15
this is absolutely something that i think all
29:18
the on the level of the country it needs to be
29:20
actually from the if not nothing else
29:23
from the bank side bank banks needs to push it right
29:26
and this transition will take some time but it's possible already today uh so
29:32
we are on the journey working on it and pretty sure next year we will be fully
29:38
um digital also for the onboarding side yeah yeah so and you are also slightly ai enabled Right.
29:46
So you've actually started playing with some AI tools and some AI initiatives.
29:50
And we've talked before around a lot of these do fail and it's okay to fail.
29:55
Fail fast is, as you say, it's part of the, it's part of the process and having
29:58
a mindset to, to try something and it doesn't work and quickly.
30:01
You know, recycle back and try something new.
30:03
And, but you've, you and your bank have actually deployed.
30:07
Um an AI initiative and it's I won't spoil the the surprise but it's been successful and you
30:12
can actually measure it yeah it's really successful and we we of course are
30:16
measuring it all we we did plan we did we did prepare the business case we did
30:21
the assessment and actually it all came true so we are we are very successful
30:25
yes in that part uh maybe to mention before AI In the past few years,
30:32
we have strongly really had a push on the development of RPA.
30:38
I don't know. It's not the new technology.
30:41
But it's easy to use. It's easy to deliver the RPAs.
30:47
And we have built a wonderful community within the bank that now everybody knows
30:52
that our colleagues are also robots, as we call them.
30:55
We didn't give them names yet. I don't know why.
30:57
But there's many of them. Maybe we would run out of names.
31:01
Yeah, but on top of that, when we saw that actually RPA is fantastic for some
31:07
repetitive tasks, we started in, of course, in the operations.
31:11
Now we are spreading the knowledge on how to use it and for what actually can it be used.
31:16
And on top of that, we started playing with AI.
31:20
When I say playing, I mean we
31:23
gave the opportunity to a big number of our colleagues to have AI tools.
31:29
Um, uh, now these AI tools are all the same on the NLB group level.
31:35
And actually we said for the first, I don't know, few months,
31:40
maybe let's play with it. Let's learn what it can do, what it cannot do.
31:45
So again, within my team, um, I said, whatever you think of, give it a chance.
31:53
Um give them the task
31:56
um give the instructions we had
31:59
the education on how to write prompts we did
32:02
all that yeah and then i said just try it with whatever
32:05
you are doing on a daily basis and here
32:08
is where we had expectations in some ways quite
32:12
big expectations and here is where i can say
32:14
maybe our expectations um well
32:18
rather i can say i was disappointed because in some
32:22
for some business cases it was like uh
32:25
be fast be first and with that
32:28
we all also failed first right but it
32:31
was okay it was not in production it was something that
32:34
we were playing with yeah um we also discovered uh
32:38
during the time that we are playing with it that what for
32:41
what actually we can use it and it's a
32:44
fantastic assistant yeah to each and every
32:47
employee if they are willing to use it
32:49
yeah um and on top of
32:52
that now i'm coming to the ai uh success story so
32:55
far we have implemented one of the ai uh
32:58
partner solutions so it's not built within the bank yeah we've made sure that
33:04
all the security that it's needed through like regulation and whatever is covered
33:08
so we are fine with that and then we implement it into the end of june into
33:14
our first process the one of the ai tools that we have.
33:18
And actually confirmed the KPIs that were set, so actually from 35 minutes to 2 minutes of.
33:26
Being done the work, right? It's fantastic, yeah. And maybe the biggest win
33:30
here is that the seniors got involved.
33:33
I mean, for everybody, that was the biggest surprise, I would say,
33:36
because the seniors actually today are using this solution, working with it
33:42
daily, seeing the results.
33:46
And if needed, even do the changes in the models that are set.
33:54
I mean, they have learned so much about the solution and
33:57
the solution is so user friendly that actually the
34:00
employee can do some changes within it and and that's
34:03
what we're looking for right not to be dependent on our
34:06
internal it or the provider yeah yeah but
34:09
we have a chance to do it ourselves you have the keys to
34:12
the car we have the keys to the car that i mean that's fantastic so
34:15
the efficiency here was absolutely as we expected it
34:18
to be it sounds like leading from the top because actually if you get that senior
34:21
buy-in and people see that that's just
34:24
an extra motivation for well if they're using it
34:26
and they're trusting it then we absolutely
34:29
need to ourselves but it's great that you get that buy-in we
34:33
we do have i mean the the support from top management
34:36
is fantastic i i mean i really i can honestly say that and the buy-in on the
34:41
operational level as i mentioned at the beginning well that's where the the
34:46
the magic happens when you have the buying on operational level actually that's
34:50
when the magic happens um because um.
34:54
This is a step-by-step approach, and if you are successful with something that
35:00
you're doing, and you show it, and you say to everybody who's interested,
35:04
right, come and see. Let us show you what we've done.
35:08
And a lot of people are interested. I know we often say that people don't like
35:12
changes, but they're curious. If nothing else, they're curious, right?
35:16
So a lot of people come and want to see what we've done. And then they start
35:21
thinking, oh, my God, maybe I can use that in my process.
35:26
But maybe just not to forget, because I didn't mention it, and it's very important,
35:32
always start with the process.
35:34
Because there's a hard rule that I really follow.
35:39
Don't robotize. Don't implement AI. Don't do anything if the process is not good.
35:45
Absolutely agree. Yeah. So that's also one of the key points.
35:49
I often see, or I have seen, really speak over some of the old shops that I
35:53
used to work at, where they would go out and buy a new piece of technology.
35:59
And, you know, it doesn't quite fit the way they do it today.
36:02
Not necessarily in the first line, but maybe in second line functions,
36:06
the risk functions, where they'd end up trying to shape the technology to fit their current process.
36:14
Rather than shape the process to fit the technology and then evolve with it.
36:18
So you end up spending all this money to do something exactly the same.
36:23
But you're a couple of million down yeah and that
36:26
we keep going back to culture mindset and the
36:30
kind of keep constantly asking why are we doing this why are we doing this why
36:32
are we doing this and i mean to be honest mark we we've all done that right
36:37
in the past i also have experience uh thinking that buying another solution
36:43
will solve all the issues yeah i mean you just have another solution in the VAT process.
36:50
These are the hard lessons that we learn. And there is investment in that.
36:55
And for sure, you didn't solve the problem and you have just another application to use.
37:00
So these are the lessons learned.
37:03
I think we have to keep in mind constantly
37:06
when discussing which solution
37:09
is a solution and when to go into
37:12
the investment of buying new either ai tool
37:15
or whichever solution on the market that we need so start
37:19
with the process do the the homework
37:22
on the process and then see what you
37:25
actually need yeah yeah and i guess with ai with great
37:29
power comes great responsibility in that you
37:32
are you're you're trusting these
37:36
tools to make decisions to create processes
37:39
do things a new way and eventually you're going to put
37:42
them in the hands of customers who might be quite
37:44
fearful of the transparency or the ethics
37:47
or whatever it might be that's powering it how did
37:50
um how did you have those conversations and cross those barriers that's at your
37:55
bank and you know how did you set yourself up so that you was you had the right
38:00
policies and the right governance in place to allow yourself to comfortably
38:04
sit there and go you know what we're good with this and we can show auditability,
38:09
we can show traceability. Yeah.
38:11
I would say for us, um.
38:15
The smart decision was the decision, okay, let's try with the AI.
38:24
Try in a manner that only affects internal processes at the beginning.
38:28
Yeah, so go internal first.
38:29
So don't go towards clients at the beginning.
38:34
Have a solution or either from the partner or either we build it ourselves that
38:40
we really understand how it works.
38:42
So for now, we are in the production with the solution that actually demands training the modules.
38:52
So you train them. You train them with your data. You train them.
38:56
And we still have a human in the loop, to be honest. And that's interesting. It's not end-to-end.
39:01
You need it still. Yeah. We still have a human in the loop. Yeah.
39:05
We need to be really sure and comfortable with.
39:10
Whenever the day comes to say okay this
39:13
doesn't need to be monitored anymore i don't know when this
39:16
will happen yeah but for sure efficiency is much
39:20
better in the processes where we have it yeah but we
39:23
were aware that the human will still be in the loop yeah i
39:26
think it's uh i think you're a spot on um having
39:29
an internal focus first it goes back to it sort of about before that
39:33
modular approach cutting it into pieces little business
39:36
case little use cases that we can trust and get internal
39:40
buy-in senior buying colleagues buying people using it
39:43
people trusting it and get momentum and then
39:45
you start to look at okay how do we
39:48
start to deploy it in more customer facing places
39:52
where it's not replacing humans it's empowering humans
39:55
for want of a better word because banking you
39:59
know over generations it's always a relationship
40:02
between customer and bank
40:05
you know mine goes back you know as i said like nearly 65 years
40:09
in my family so it's still quite personal um
40:12
and the trust is the key and the trust is the key word so
40:15
it's it's the marriage it's the balance between ai
40:20
and human making sure that the ai does maybe
40:22
the mundane the repetitive as you say that the kind
40:26
of robotic piece but then frees up.
40:28
The banker the bank to show
40:32
that empathetic the relationship the personal
40:35
touch human touch side of things and i think if you get that
40:38
balance right that marriage right that's where you're
40:40
going to create usps and succeed in in the market yeah i agree completely this
40:45
is why we are on the path as we are right having still human touch wherever
40:51
we are in which whatever process we are discussing um building this trust because
40:57
i think the trust as i mentioned now uh
41:00
the most important thing between the client
41:03
and the bank i mean once you don't trust your
41:06
bank it's game over right absolutely yeah so
41:09
this is something that we need to keep in
41:12
mind all of us working banking industry and from
41:15
another side we are all customers also right
41:18
so um that this is something
41:21
that we need to be careful about and always of
41:24
course be compliant make the as much
41:27
as possible on the security this is why we
41:30
have these solutions in the closed environments so
41:33
no external no connection
41:36
to internet nothing it's it's totally isolated from
41:41
other things because we are at the beginning right we are using it but controlled
41:47
and still really careful and And I've just been in Frankfurt last week on the
41:54
conference on banking and usage of AI.
41:58
And I can say that we all agreed that, yeah, let's have AI. Let's take it into our processes.
42:06
But carefully and with the human in the loop.
42:09
That was the conclusion. I agree. I agree. And I guess we're coming to kind
42:13
of the close of the podcast.
42:15
So I always like to kind of put a future lens on it.
42:19
And I guess, for the Serbian market in particular, what do you think is going
42:24
to be more important in the next two or three years?
42:25
Is it going to be adoption of AI or is it going to be modernization or just
42:32
transformation of the core element of the bank?
42:36
Which one would you say is probably more important or is it a blend?
42:40
Absolutely a blend. I wouldn't say that one is more important than the other.
42:44
We, in the times that we're living, we have to do all at the same time.
42:51
Yeah. So transform, digitalize, modernize.
42:56
And meaning technology and the culture in the bank of the employees and in parallel
43:03
work on the education of our customers.
43:08
Because also the market, such as it is, you've noticed, right,
43:12
that there is still cash. It's not totally digital.
43:16
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So also, I think one of the key things that the banks
43:22
also have to work on strongly is to give the customers the opportunity to learn
43:28
and to trust the digital world.
43:30
The youngers don't have an issue, right? They are there. They are aware.
43:34
Mostly they are aware of all the dangers. But the generations,
43:38
I don't know, above 50, maybe 60, they need to learn that and they need to see
43:46
that the cash is not the only way to go, that you can trust the card, you can trust the phone.
43:52
So that requires the culture, the cultural change, the mindsets change,
43:57
the technological change, the business model of the banks, actually.
44:01
So i would say work on every
44:05
possible aspect you can yeah and be careful
44:08
safe fast and everything that comes with
44:11
it what's your one piece of as we
44:14
end the podcast what's your one piece of advice for your
44:18
peers and colleagues in in here in serbia that
44:21
they could take away from what you've done in terms of a successful digital
44:27
transformation on ai delivery what's the what's the one nugget you say you know
44:31
what i wish and wish somebody told me that before that's something i've learned
44:35
and pass that on to to your colleagues so they can have the success you've had,
44:39
i think it's a no-brainer i've said it before right always give a chance to
44:45
the quietest person in the room always um hear them out think about it,
44:52
And see where this can take you in the future. Maybe resolve the issues before they occur.
44:59
Have all the stakeholders together. Yeah, have all the stakeholders together.
45:04
Have the tech team, have the business team at the same table,
45:08
in the same room, as much as possible.
45:11
In these days, we are, of course, a lot working from home.
45:15
But people do want to come to office, to be honest. They do want to see their
45:20
colleagues. They do want to have that coffee.
45:23
Collaboration and collaboration so use
45:26
that moments to give them into the it either
45:29
for a task either for a project it doesn't matter
45:32
um have them in one room so that
45:35
they all get to hear the same information that
45:39
they all understand that they are a part of the same
45:42
team yeah uh it's not them it's
45:45
not us but we are all us yeah um
45:49
and if that means include external partners
45:52
also they are a part of our team if
45:54
we are working with external partners we need to behave
45:58
like we are all in one team absolutely so two take
46:01
two takes from this i would say always hear
46:05
the quietest person and always make sure
46:07
people are together as one team yeah i
46:10
love that co-creation collaboration sense of
46:13
ownership across all the stakeholders in the bank and
46:16
external vendors every the kind of we are the us yeah i love that um well look
46:22
this is your first ever appearance on the podcast first ever wow you've done
46:27
fantastic it was very easy mark thank you you you did a great job well i'm now
46:33
expecting to uh for you to host your own one.
46:37
And invite you and i'll come on as a be your first guest but i think you'll
46:41
make a a fantastic host but all joining aside really do appreciate your work
46:46
this morning on the panels.
46:49
Agreeing to be as I said my next victim on the podcast yeah you did a fantastic
46:53
job wish you all the success you,
46:57
um in your in your next deliveries i'm sure they'll they'll do really well and
47:01
i'll be keeping a real kind kind ear and eye on what uh what the future brings
47:07
for for you and your bank so thank you very much thank you mark.