Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 399: Late Season Hunting and Habitat Improvement with Rob Haubry

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Ep. 399: Late Season Hunting and Habitat Improvement with Rob Haubry · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and tell you in the show, we're joined by wildlife
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and habitat consultant Rob Hobbrey to discuss late season hunting
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and ideas for improving deer and wildlife habitat. Welcome to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Today we are talking with Rob Hobbrey. Rob is a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: land specialist for white tail properties as well as a consultant.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: He runs a wildlife and uh forestry consulting business. And
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Rob actually joined us on the back for to this
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: summer and helped us out with some trees and tree
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: plantings and and during that time with him, I realized
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that he has got a lot to offer when it
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: comes to ideas around both how to hunt deer and
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: how to improve a piece of ground for deer and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: other wildlife. Um, just a great source of knowledge. And
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: today that's what I wanted to do, was was get
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: him talking on all those topics. So what we're gonna
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: dive into here momentarily is a little bit around Rob's
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: late season hunting plans, the types of things he's paying
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: attention to, as well as a little bit more generically,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: things he thinks about just when it comes to hunting
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: a small property in general, especially with lots of pressure
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: around you. He has a unique situation on his home
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: farm and and he has some ideas around that that
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I thought were pretty interesting. And then for the majority
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of our time, we then are going to talk through
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: ways to develop a plan for improving your property, whether
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: it's twenty acres or two acres. UH. This is a
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: eight time a year here at the end of the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: year to be thinking about what we want to do
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: this next time around. So we discuss how to audit
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: your property, how to determine where to start, how to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: prioritize projects, and then discussing everything from improving food sources
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to you know, improving cover and timber stands or creating
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: brand new cover in the middle of the fields. We
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: talk about food plots, we talk about evergreen tree plantings,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: we talk about planting orchards, UH and everything in between.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: So if you are into just hunting, we've got something
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: for you. And then if you're into improving ground, we've
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: got that as well. It's a fun talk. Rob's got
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a lot to offer, so I'm just gonna let us
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: dive right into it. We're here at the very end
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of the year, so uh, I just want to wish
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: you all a merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, happy New Year.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I hope it's been a good year, although I know
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: it's been tough for a lot of folks. I hope
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you've been able to uh weather the storm and find
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: some silver linings and uh, we're gonna head into one
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: with some optimism, is what I hope. We're gonna have
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a better year everyone. That's what I believe. And uh,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: let's let's make that a reality real quick. Before we
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: get to Rob's chat, a couple of quick plugs, I'll
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: just let you all know that the back forty series
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: is completed. That show that I host, it's now all
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: out there. It's on the Meat Eater YouTube channel. You'll
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: get to see Rob in one of those episodes as
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: he helped bring out and help us get started with
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: some of our tree plantings and episode two, so make
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: sure check that out. I hope it's something you enjoy
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and can learn from and maybe be inspired by a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: little put a ton of blood, sweat and tears into it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So head on over scope that out. And then finally,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: if you got some gift cards for Christmas or maybe
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a little cash and you're stocking and you're looking for
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: something to buy. Um in particular, I'm gonna recommend some
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: books because I'm a book nerd. I love reading. I'd
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: recommend checking out the new book for Meat Eater, which
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: is The Meat Eater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: That's a dang good option. Or if you're looking for
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: more of a history and adventure read, I got to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: suggest that Wild Country. That's the book that I wrote
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and had published last year that I'm super proud of
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and would love for you to give a read. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: thank you for your support on that one and all
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: of this. So that's it for me. Thanks, and let's
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: get to my conversation with Rob Hobbrey. Alright with me
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: now on the line is Rob Hobbrey. Rob, thank you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: so much for making the time to do this. Great
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: to be with you. MARKA not a problem at all. Yeah, I,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: as we were just talking about before we started recording,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: we had a We had a quick visit this summer
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: in that left me wanting to have a real deep
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: dive with you for for months now, so I'm excited
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to be able to do this. I want to talk
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: through a bunch of different things, everything from late season
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: hunting to you know, land management throughout the year. But
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: before that, I guess I would be curious to hear
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: from you what your life looks like. What's the day
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: in the life of Rob Hobbrey looked like? Because I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: introduced you a second ago before we started recording as
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: someone who consults and you're also a land specialist for
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: white Tail properties. But people hear about folks that do that.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: They hear about people that are land consultants or or
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: habitat management consultants or forestry consultants. That's a term we
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: hear a lot, but I'm not sure people always know
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: what that looks like in reality. What what does a
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: day in the life look like for someone like you? Well,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the beauty of of my job and and how I've
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: been blessed immensely by God is every day, every single
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: day is something different. Uh. You know, I started my
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: career back in after I graduated from Purdue had a
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: double major enforced management wildlife management. I worked sixteen months
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: with the Indiana Division of Fish and Wildlife with their
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Forest Wildlife division, and I absolutely loved that job. And
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and my true passion is habitat management for wildlife species.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I just loved that. But it's hard to make a
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: living in wildlife habitat. It really is unless you're you know,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: one of the top research biologists or you know, Grant
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Woods or somebody like that. And so my my career
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: tailored into forestry because they had the double major. I
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: worked for a hardwood lumber company and then after a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: few years, I started my own forestry consulting business um
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and with that, after fifteen or twenty years, I was
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: called by White Tail Properties. A friend of mine worked
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: for them and gave them my name, and uh, you know,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: my business has kind of transitioned a little bit now
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: that I'm a forestry consultant, a habitat consultant, and I'm
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: also a land specialist with White Tail Properties. Every single
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: day is something different. One day, I'm looking at a
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: parcel of land that somebody wants to sell. Uh. The
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: next day, I'm showing a property that somebody wants to buy.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Two days later, I'm marking a stand of timber in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: UH in southern Indiana, and I'll spend two or three
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: or five days on that hour long takes me to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: finish that UH and maybe the next week I'm over
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: in west central Indiana looking at three acres with a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: landowner wanting to improve his habitat, and he wants me
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to write a management plan. So every day is something different,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: every day is something unique, and that is what I
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: absolutely love about my work. I'm fifty seven years old, UH,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and I I really don't have a set date or
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: a year that I want to retire because I still
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: love what I do. Um. It's just it's just that simple.
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  Speaker 1: So I've been really blessed in that regard. So every
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: day is, every day is different, every day presents a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: different and unique challenge. UM. At first, it was a
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: little bit difficult trying to juggle all three aspects with
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: real estate and the forestry and the habitat. But I've
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: gotten to a point now to where, UM, you know,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I know how far I can stretch myself. UM. So
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's been it's been a real blessing, and and
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  Speaker 1: I just I enjoy getting out of bed every single day.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I just really do. Yeah, that's that's the dream right there.
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  Speaker 1: With all that going on, Do you do you find
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: any time to hunt? Because it's funny you hear from
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: folks that work within this industry and from the outside
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  Speaker 1: it seems like, oh, they just must hunt every day,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: but then lots of times the work during this time
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: of the year could be really busy. Is that the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: case for you or do you a are you able
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to schedule things that you can actually get out and
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: practice what you preach? Still, Uh, it's difficult, I have
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: to admit it. Uh. You know this hunting season, I've
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: hunted five days, um, and that's that's been it since
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: October one. Uh. I hurt. I actually hurt my arm
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: using a piece of equipment, so and it was my
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: my my my draw arm for my bow. So I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't able to bow hunt at all. Um. But that
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: allowed me to get some things caught up in the field.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people take a lot of time
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: off during hunting season. And you know, if you get
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a couple of warm days and the deer aren't moving, Uh,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: they'll call you and they want to see properties. And
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: sometimes you just have to take that opportunity when it arises.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So I try to make my schedule um to where
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you know I can. It's not just rock solid. Sometimes,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: you know, I I can arrange things a little bit.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: But my wife is really good about telling me, you
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: need to take the week that you want to hunt
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and just turn your phone off and hunt that week. Uh.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm blessed to have a wife that wants me
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to do that. But my my problem is is I
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: just don't like to turn anybody down. Uh. If somebody
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: calls me wants to look at the property, I want
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to get there as soon as I can. If somebody
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: calls me wants to see a property, I want to
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: show it to him as soon as I can. If
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: an individual calls me and they're wanting me to look
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: at a track of timber or do some habitat consulting
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: for him, I want to try to reach out and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: make it as convenient on them as I possibly can.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So sometimes I just have to arrange my schedule. Now,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: what makes it a little bit easier for me is, um,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I'm mainly and I do and I do mean mainly.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I mainly just hunt my farm, which is right out
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: my back door. Um. So, Uh, the buck I killed
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: on opening day this year, I've been after for two
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: years and I shot him two hundred yards behind my house.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Um so you know, I I know the dear by
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: watching him and by a trail camera and everything. And
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't have to leave the house at
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: four am to try to get my stand by six
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: or six fifteen. Uh you know I can. I can
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: walk out the back door and be in my at
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: six and be in my stand at six ten and
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and I absolutely love that. I mean I absolutely love that. Yeah,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that's pretty darn cool. I gotta I have to ask
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: about this story then, the the opening day behind the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: house buck two year history. Uh, how did it start
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and how did it end? I had this buck on
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: my trail camera's last fall. I was seeing him quite
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a bit, especially in the middle of the morning. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: would I had him on trail camera anywhere between nine
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: thirty and noon, going through my food plots. Um, and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: he was I could tell he was a really mature deer. Um.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I mean for my farm, you know, uh, four and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a half year old deer as a mature deer because
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: on the east side of my farm is heavy state land. Uh.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: And then on the northeast side of my farm. Uh,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of guys really hunt that property really hard.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: So for me to you know, for me to let
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a deer get five or six years old, is really
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: tough because they just get hit hard as soon as
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: they leave my property. Um. But anyway, I had him
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: on Trail Cameron and last year opening day, I didn't
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: see him at altering bow season, but I was only
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: able to hunt three or four days. Opening day at
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: firearms season, I saw him, uh in the same stand
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I killed him out of this year, but he was
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: at a hunt about eighty five yards and I was
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: hunting with a gun that I didn't feel comfortable at
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that with and I watched him for ten or fifteen minutes.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Well that evening, I went back to that same stand
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and I saw him again, and he was at the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: same spot he but he was only out for about
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds and I didn't have a shot. I did
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: not see that deer again until the opening day of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: muzzleoader season, which would have been sometime around December tenth,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and he stepped into my food plots broadside at thirty
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: yards at five o'clock in the evening, and I thought, buddy,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: you are dead. And I pulled the trigger on that
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: muzzle loader, and that deer just stood there, looked around
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and turned around, walked across the pond, damn, and went
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: right back up into the woods. And so I got
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: down now my stand after half hour so and went
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and looked right where he was at. Not a not
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a hit, not a hair, and I dropped the blood. Nothing.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I mean that that deer didn't act like he'd been shot.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: And I got back up in my tree stand and
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: looked in front of me in about ten yards in
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: front of me was about a four inch elm tree,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and I shot one of the limbs right out of it.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I didn't see it through my scope, and it
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: was it was actually laying right. It was laying in
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the crown of the tree, right in front of me
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: at ten yards. So there I knew why I missed him.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And I did not have that deer on my trail
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: cameras all fall of this year. I hadn't. I had
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: not seen that deer since I missed him that day
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and open day, I'm hunting behind the house and right
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: about nine or ten h I start getting several young bucks.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Year and a half to two and a half h
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I think there was five bucks and all chasing two doughs,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: all through the bedding areas and prairie grasses and and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: just all around me. And this went on for an
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: hour hour and a half. Well right about noon, a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: dope went through the soybeans in front of me into
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the little woods right next to me and to the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: prairie grasses, and three little bucks followed her, and I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: was watching them, and right behind the third buck, that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: big buck that I had not seen for almost twelve
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: months stepped out of the woods and he was about
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he was about sixty yards and so that I was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: able to put a good shot on him and UH
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and we were really blessed and that it was. It
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: was pretty unique hunt because he wasn't in a position
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: at first for me to shoot him. And well, he
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and I had a forty five minute standoff. I'm standing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: with UH with my rifle on him, and he was
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: still not in a position. I felt comfortable that I
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: was going to take the shot, and he stood there
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: and stared at me, and I stood there and stared
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: at him, and we did that for forty five minutes
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and he stepped back. Then he stepped back into the woods,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and then five minutes later steps right back out and
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: in the exact same position. And he just stood there
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and and watched me. He knew there was something there,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: but he couldn't figure it out. And the wind was right,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: so I knew he couldn't win me. The wind was
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: out of the east that day. That's why I hunt
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: that stand. And uh and so it it, It made
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: for a It made for a really really uh interesting
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and exciting day. Oh yeah, what was going through your
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: head or the course of that forty five minutes, Like
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: what was the Rob Hobbery self talk to make it
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: through that without losing your mind? The Rob Hobbrey self
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: talk on that was move, do something, take a step.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And you know he didn't he because he was a
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: big mature buck. He didn't do that bob your head,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: stomp your foot, Bob your head, stomp your foot that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: you see a lot of young bucks and does do
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: He just stood there and was literally locked on me,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and every now and then he just turned his head
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and watched the dose and the little bucks around him.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: But the fascinating thing about that hunt that I found
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: was those those little bucks were chasing those does in
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: circles around him, and he still never moved. He was
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: still just staring and fixated on me. And uh I
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: found it. I mean, you know, that's the beauty of
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: deer hunting, especially, you know when you when you go
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: out and you spend time in the field, you get
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to see how deer react to certain scenarios, um and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and you just you can just learn a lot. Uh um.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: You know people have always said, well, a big buckle
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: standing in the brush and just watch things for forty
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: five minutes, for an hour. I believe that absolutely, because
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: that that dear just I mean, he wasn't in a
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: hurry to move, and he he wasn't leaving the prairie grasses.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Because those young bucks chased those two doughs uh an
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: eighth of a mile out into the bean field and
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: into a little patch of corn and then back around me.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I mean they they had a quarter of a mile
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: loop they were running around it. And that that buck
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't leaving that woods and he wasn't about to step
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: out of those prairie grasses. Well, yeah, they're they're almost
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: a different species once they get to four or five
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: years old, aren't they? Oh? I mean just absolutely. And
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I checked my my trail cameras. Uh. Again a matter
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: of fact, I pulled the SID cards last weekend. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: because I hadn't pulled the SID cards since the first
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: week in November, and I only had that buck on
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: my trail car trail cams one day. Uh, And I
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: got and I had five pictures of him in one spot.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So he wasn't he wasn't venturing all across the farm. Uh.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I felt that he was probably staying in that little
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: woods right behind my house. And and that's my believe
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: it or not, that's my sanctuary. It's a three and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: a half acre woods right behind my house. And I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: never ever ever go in unless once a year I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: looked for sheds and here within a month or so,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go in and do it a little
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: bit of habitat improvement. But other than that, I never
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: go in that woods. And every year there will be
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a really nice mature buck, make that his little bedroom.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: So and maybe that what you just described was going
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to be the answer to my next question. But what
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering is how do you manage to have a
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: good mature buck like that on what I think it's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a it's a relatively small property that you have, right
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: am I read on that total of eighty acres? Okay, yeah,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of what I was assuming. And so
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: with state land on one side and another heavily pressured
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: property and the other, you know, I think a lot
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of people might assume in that scenario, there's no way
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have a four or five year old buck
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: because you know that eighty acres is not the entire
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: range of a big deer like that. He's gonna get
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: He's gonna get killed on one of those neighbors. So
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: what do you have to do from a hunting perspective
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: to to not pressure deer off that and have them
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: on the neighbors getting shot or I guess is it
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a habitat thing that you do that leads to these
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: bucks being able to make it despite the neighborhood. Is
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it uh conservative hunting approach or is it an aggressive
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: hunting approacher? What do you think it is that allows
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: you to still have good deer like this despite the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: fact that there's public land two hundred yards away or
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. And and they're right there. I think
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: it's a combination of both the habitat and and your
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: how you hunt the property. Because in the past, Um,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I would have trail camp pictures of really nice mature deer,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: determined to kill that deer before a firearm season came in,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: so I had the month of October to hunting, um,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: because the rut isn't in full swing yet in October,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, does aren't really going into estrus and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: there's not a lot of chasing going around. UM. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: think the mistakes I made in the past was I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: was so determined to kill that deer in bow season
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that I think I put too much pressure on the farm,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: even though I'm very meticulous on how I hunt the
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: farm with the wind there there. I mean, you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: we've got eighty acres and I think I've got thirteen
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: or fifteen stands. And when I tell people that, they
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: think I'm nuts, Well, you know I have got a
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: tree stand for any wind direction to be able to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: hunt at whether it's a morning or or an evening stand.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: You know. And this is the beauty about owning your
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: property is you know, if you just take time and
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: enjoy it over time, you will learn how the deer
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: move and how they come in and out of the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: property and what they like what they don't like. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you will also learn the best places to hunt and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the places you don't want to hunt because you've got
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: busted too many times. And so if the wind isn't
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: right at a certain time of day, for example, if
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the only place I have to hunt is my back
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the back forty of our property is all timbered, and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: if the only place I have to hunt is evening
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: with an east wind, I don't get to hunt that
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: day because on the back forty of my property with
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: an east wind, I'm out of luck. That's just all
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: there is to it, because if I try to hunt
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: that with an east wind, it's going to interfere with
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: where the dozed bed and where the bucks bed, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to mess it up now. And if
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I want to hunt a morning hunt and I have
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a west wind, I've just got a fabulous stand on
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: our back ridge. I know where that I know where
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: they bed, and I know how they travel through and
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I've got a really good standing from from
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that standpoint. So I think what's really helped me, especially
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the last three or four years, is. And I don't
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: want to take any thing away from the guys who
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: loved to bow hunt, but I have just not pressured
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: to farm at all during bow season. And I think
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: my thoughts on this, and my father and I were
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: discussing this here last week. Um, I think what's happened,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: what's helped with that is because the lack of pressure
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that I put on yet the pressure that the neighbors
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: have put on, has allowed the deer to feel comfortable
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: on the farm. Uh. And then once those does start
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to go into estrus in the end of October one November,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: because they feel comfortable on the farm, and because there's
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a few little bucks on the farm, I think, uh,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, at least in my case, a mature
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: buck will come in. And this isn't the first time
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it's happened to bet you know. That was one of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the best year I've ever killed on the property. Second
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: best year I've killed on the property came out of
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the same a little three and a half ager woods. Um.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I think what's taken place is
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: because of the lack of pressure that I put on it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not out there every morning, every evening,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: six days a week. I think that helps the deer
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable on the farm, and that allows me to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: hunt on days that I know I can if I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: need to, I can put in a full day sit.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: If the wind is right, I know I can hunt
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: a specific stand. And the other thing I think I've
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: done mark that has really helping, you know, and I've
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: read a lot of articles on this and and I'm
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I'm finding it to be very true, is those approaches
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: to your tree stand and and the exit routes out
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: of your tree stand are absolutely huge. I mean, just
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: moving a tree stand fifteen yards uh, you know, with
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a south wind, uh, and being able to get out
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: of that stand down into the creek and leave that
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: stand and not have dear blow out of your food plots.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: That has really helped immensely. I mean, you know, I
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: love late season hunting. And we've got a little bit
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: of snow on the ground this morning from last night snow.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I'll probably hunt this evening and there's you know, I've
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: got six acres of standing soybeans and there's a good
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: chance there will be fifteen deer and my food plots
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: this evening and I may not kill one. I just
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: like going out and and watching how they behave and
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: watching how you know, how they work through the food plots,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: and then and then once they passed by me, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I usually take my binoculars and look real
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: close the best I can. You know, I might sit
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: out there an hour after dark, just so I don't
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: spook deer when I leave. And I think that has
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: helped immensely as well. Now I want your listeners to
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: understand every year I learned, I'm learning something constantly. And
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not the guy like Don Higgins who's
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: gone out and killed two inch deer. I just haven't.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: But you know, I enjoy hunting my farm. I enjoyed
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: doing the habitat improvements on my farm. And that's what
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: has really brought the joy of hunting to me is
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: seeing how the deer react to those habitat improvements and
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: seeing how those habitat improvements have have helped the herd
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: quality on my property. And so I've learned a lot
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: over the years. And I've learned a lot by listening
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and watching videos and listening to a podcast like yours,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, in reading articles, you know, and every
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: every now and then you know, you'll read an article
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and go, I've never thought about that, and you try
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: it and you think that gone, that really works. Yeah,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that that process of continuous learning is is probably the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: very best thing about this whole thing ye're hunting and
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: management and all that. You're never going to arn it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You're never gonna know at all. So it's it's a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: constant process, new discoveries, new things to try, and that's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: just a good time. Um. And that's that's That's one
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: thing I love about my property that we have is
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: you know, when there's a new food plot, blend comes out,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: or a new seed variety, I'm not afraid to buy
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: it and plan it, you know, maybe in a quarter
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of an acre for a year or two, just to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: see if the deer like it. Uh. And that's that's
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: how I've kind of narrowed down what I plant on
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the farm, because it's been a lot of trial and error.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Um and uh So, I mean after after you do
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that quite a bit, you have a tendency to realize
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the deer really don't uh brows on what I planted
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: that much, or the next year, maybe I'll plant something.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: A man they hammered that they really liked it, so
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll try a little bit more. You know, as
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: long as the nutritional qualities there, I'm not afraid to
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: try new things. But that's the beauty of your own property.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to you know, you don't
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: have to be you don't have to try one specific product,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: one specific seed blend and say, well, this is what
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I want to plant this year. I'm just gonna leave
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: it at that. Don't never be afraid to try a
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: variety because you know, you never do you never know
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: what the deer might be liking next year. Yeah, Yeah,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: trial and error is is usually a good approach to
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: uh take things that next level. You mentioned that you're
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: probably gonna go hunting tonight or or sometime soon. So
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: what's what's your program for late season deer hunting? What's
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: what's your approach? And my approach is food because I know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like last week it was warm. I mean
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: we were in the mid sixties a couple of days. Um,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I really there's one particular stand on my property that's
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: right next to the creek, and I love hunting that stand.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: It's I've had it there since my dad bought the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: farm back in two thousand and that's my favorite evening stand.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I can only hunt it with a south wind. Well,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I hunted it one evening last week and uh, at
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: ten minutes until dark, I mean shooting light was just
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: about over. The deer hadn't even started coming out yet.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So I went ahead and climbed down and left because
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to be there an hour and a
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: half after dark, and I didn't want to spook him.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And so when it's warm like that in late season,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: they just don't move until almost dark because they don't
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: have to because they're not cold, uh, you know, and
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: they're not gravitating to the food as quickly. Um. And
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: so I didn't hunt a lot last week. This week
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it's it's colder. I know they're going to move sooner.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of soybeans planted. So my goal
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: for this evening will be to check the wind in
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the side which stand I like best based on the
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: wind direction. Uh, and then I will basically hunt over food.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Uh and basically I meet hunting now. I usually try
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to kill one large dough on the farm. Uh. Sometimes uh,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'll kill like last year, my my wife, I
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: hadn't killed a deer for a couple of years because
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I hadn't seen one that I wanted to kill. And
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: last year, my wife's like, we need meat. Kill your
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: deer and then chase your buck. So last last year,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I I shot a big dough on the first day
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: of firearms season because it wasn't able to bow hunt
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: that much. And I sent her a picture. I said,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: does that work for you? And she said very good?
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: And so but uh so, but uh you know, uh
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and and we're the family that my we rarely ever
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: buy beef unless we're going to grill a steak on
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: a grill. I mean, we we eat everything that I kill.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: And my wife's a good cook, and uh so we
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: really enjoy that. And even my daughter, you know, she's
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: a she's a fifth year senior in college and and
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: she's she even informed me last year, Dad, we're getting
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: low one meat. So that's kind of nice. But to work, Yeah,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: my late season focus is I like hunting over food.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Uh and so because I have a lot of soybeans.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Um you know, they have a tendency too to be
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: right there. Uh no, you know, depending on the wind
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: direction and so forth. So but I have noticed on
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the farm as well that if if for some reason
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: there's pressure on a neighbor, uh, and they have a
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: tendency to bed close to the neighbors, but on our property,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: that can dictate how they move into the food plots
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: that evening by what pressure they had during the day.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: So that by that, do you mean if on the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: neighboring property they were in their hunting earlier that day,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that the deer coming into your place won't move until
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: after dark or something like that. Or it's not only that,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: but you know if and this happens when you own
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: land next to state land, if if somebody's come in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and avoided or or trespassed on you and has pushed
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the deer out of the betting area, you know, while
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I was at work and they came in and do that, Uh,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: then uh, you know that might change the dear patterns
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: that day because you know, they were ran off the
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: farm or away from the farm, or in a different
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: spot than where they knew normally bed. And so as
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: they're moving into the food that evening, it might take
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: them an extra fifteen or twenty minutes to get there,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: or they may not get there till after dark because
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: they've been betting a half a mile away. Yeah, do
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you view that, you know, having public land next to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you as as a detriment or as an asset in
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: certain ways? I've I've talked to some folks that have
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: similar situations like lists excuse me, like this, and the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: initial thought is typically, oh, man, there's guys in there
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: all time, pushing stuff around, shooting things. It's a tough
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: thing to deal with. But on the flip side, you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: might be able to look at and say, Okay, there's
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: hundreds of acres of public land or whatever that if
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: it was not public land, it might hold a bunch
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: of deer that would stay there and I wouldn't see them.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: But instead there's deer there in the spring and summer,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and then once hunting season starts, all those other people
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: go in there and they push everything to your place.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Do you do you get any of that kind of
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: effect and all of a sudden, like your properties better
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: because everything's pushed off by the pressure on the neighbors.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I think most definitely. Um. I know since that that
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: was forty acres on our east side, and we had
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: told one of the owners that if they ever decided
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: to sell it, we want first chance to buy it, UM.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: And then the Indiana Division of Forestry came in and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: bought it and we didn't even know it. UM. We
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: were really disappointed in that, But I think since the
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: state has owned it, that's exactly what's happened. I since
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: people you know, with the with the with the g
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I S information you have on your cell phones, you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: know that most people don't go by a plat book anymore.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: They can pull up their cell phone and know who
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: owns the property. And so most people now know that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that piece next to us is public land. Uh. It
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: does get hunted more than it used to since there
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: have been more people hunting it. I think that has
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: pressured that area a little bit more. And I do
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: think that is one of the reasons some of these
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: more mature bucks have gravitated into our property because there's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: no there's very little pressure UM. But I will admit
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: from I like to be able to control what goes
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: on on the farm UM, and I can't control that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: forty acres and that's uh. I don't I don't like
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: having public land right next to me because, like I
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: mentioned before, with trespassing, people can really mess it up.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I think that has, uh,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: that has been a little bit of a benefit in
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: allowing more mature bucks to find a little bit better
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: sanctuary on our property. UM. I know people from a
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: from a real estate standpoint, I know people who have
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: who are looking for property and they love the fact
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: that a parcel I might have for sale or parcel
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: they're looking at is next to public land because that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: gives them more acreage to hunt. And I understand that,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: or gives them more acreage to hike or whatever. Um.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And from from a selling standpoint, you know, when you
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: sell a farm, if it has if it's adjacent to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: public land, you know, I've not had anybody not like that. Um.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just I think what hurts me more than anything
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: is the county road. Uh, there's a public there's an
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: access site right there on this forty acres that joins us.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: If it was a little bit more isolated or landlocked,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't bother me a bit. But it's not. And
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: so so yeah, there there's good points and bad points.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And it's one of those things
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that man having public access for those hunters that you
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: know are going to use that, it's such a great
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: privilege and it's great that people can get out there
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: and enjoy it. It's just a shame when people abuse
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: that privilege and then trespass on somebody else's land. So
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: um man, I hate to see a good thing be
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: you know, turned into a bad thing when people abuse
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that and uh, and I hope I hope that happens
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: less and less because you know, we need place for
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: people to go hunt. But you know, public access is
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: gonna be taken away if people don't use it the
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: right way. So it's a shame when you see those examples.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I've certainly seen it. Um Uh. Now back to the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: late season thing. You talked about the fact that you're
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: late season strategy all revolves around food, and you talk
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: to a lot of different people when it comes to
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: managing land or adding food to a property, and and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: some folks, many folks take the approach of the fact
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that they want, you know, year round food or season
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: long food. Um. But there are certain parts of the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: season when food is disproportionately important, at least from a
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: hunting perspective, and late seasons seems to be one of
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: those times when you know a lot of neighboring places
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: might be lacking, while in October everything's covering food. There's
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: great stuff all over the place, there's great habitat all
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: over the place. You know, it's a it's a diminishing
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: set of resources that we have once you get into
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: December or January. So my question is do you make
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: improvements to your property or do you think about food
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: specifically with the late season mind ever, because you know that, man,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that's when my food plots will really be special. In
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: October they're okay, it's great to have, but they're that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: not that unique compared to everything around me. But once
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: we get to December, I could have the only show
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: in town. Um is that in your mind at all?
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Or should be people be thinking about that? It is?
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: But I do, and I stress this to like my clients.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: When I meet a client, you know, and a lot
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: of my my habitat clients, they want me to write
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a plan and they want to implement it, which I
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: think that's great. I think it's great when people can
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: do their own management work and see the rewards of
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: their hard work. And I just they kind of used
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: me as a coach and that's great. But on my farm,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: I focus year on year round nutrition. I want to
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: make sure that that let's start in January. I want
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to make sure that I have a good high carbohydrate,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: high protein food source January February March, because I want
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: my deer to be healthy going into that lag time.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Because that time period when your soybeans are picked off
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and the deer have been in the corn for the
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: last two and a half months and they're just not
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: much there and the grounds just starting to thaw out,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: and but you know the native fourage is is not
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: budding yet and the deer are really just eating brows.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I have plenty of nutrition
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: at that time. And so that's when I think you're
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the fall food plots that you plant such as wheat, oats, turnips,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: winter piece things like that, they're breaking dormancy. And you know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: in in April and May, before your clover starts to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: grow again and before anybody's planted any soybeans, you have
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: got something that's really nutritious for the deer. And then
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you go into um. Then you go into the growing
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: season where you plan your annual crops. And I I
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: plant a forage soybean, and that is what I encourage
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: my clients to plant. And the reason I like a
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: forage soybean is because it's not an agbean. A forage
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: soybean is the soybean that deer can browse, and that
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: soybean continues to grow and will continue to put on
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: new growth. So if you picture a soybean that grows
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: out of the ground and once it's you know, ten
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: or twelve inches tall, it's got two or three or
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: four stems on it, and then the leaves start coming
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: on those stems, Well, the deer comes in and browses
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: those everywhere there's a crotch in that stem, it's going
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to sprout, you know, a new leaf. Uh. And so
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the forge soybeans can handle a lot of browse pressure.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So the soybeans I plant in in May or the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: forge soybeans. But the beauty of those is they're very
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: late maturing. So going into October, I've still got green soybeans.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Last year I had six acres of green soybeans. The
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: first week of November. Every soybean plant within five miles
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: of me was nothing but a stem with a bean pot.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: And keep in mind it's still sixty five degrees, so
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: the deer aren't necessarily gravitating too, you know, something that's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: high in carbohydrates. They still like that green forge. They
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: still like the clover, you know, they like the If
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: you've got winter wheat out, they like the winter wheat,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: they like the oats. Anything that's green. When it's not
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: real cold outside, they're gonna move to. And that's the
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: beauty of the forage soybean. And the nice thing is
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: is if you have a good growing season, they're still
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: gonna put on a lot of pods. So I've got
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: green forage on my farm from the time I put
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: my fall plots in until I plant my fall plots
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: the next year. So so basically I've got wheat, oats,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: p and turnips in and brassica's on my farm going
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: into the fall into the winter. They're gonna take off
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: in late winter early spring and really grow nice and
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: thick as it gets warm. And the beauty of those
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: fall plots, or I call them winter annuals, is you know,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: you get you get a week in December when it's
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: sixty five degrees, they're gonna grow, you know, unless the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: grounds just frozen solid. I mean, they're going to grow
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: because and ben then when it gets cold, you know
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: they're gonna go dormant again. And it's just a really
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: nice winter porridge. When I missed that big buck last
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: year during muzzle older season, he had a mouthful of
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: winter oats. Uh he I mean he would. You could
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: hear him pulling them out of the ground. Um and
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: that was just literally fun to watch and until I
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: saw him turn and go back. But anyway, so so
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I really focus on nutrition, um, but I also want,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: uh something that's going to carry the deer when it
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: gets really cold, like with the no one right now. Uh,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I've got standing soybeans. The deer gonna be
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: feeding on soybeans this evening. I'm I'm just convinced of that. Uh.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: So that's what's nice. They're talking by next week we're
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be back up in the mid fifties, so they're
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: probably going to be back in my clover and on
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: the winter oats and winter piece. Now on those cool nights,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: they're still gonna eat soybeans. But you know, they're opportunistic,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and so they're gonna hit a variety of forage types
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and I just want to make sure I have as
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: much variety out there as I can and enough nutrition
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: to carry them into spring. Because you know, there's there's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: nothing better than knowing when your doughs are pregnant that
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: they're healthy. And as the dough is healthy, it's when
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: when it gives birth to its fawns, she's gonna lactate
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: really well and the fawns are going to be healthy.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: As a buck comes out of rut, you know, you've
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: got to make sure that on your farm, he's got
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: plenty of nutrition so his body is strong and healthy.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: So when that antler growth begins, his body isn't trying
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to grow antlers and replenish that body mass that he
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: had before the rut. If you can help maintain that
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: body mass, you know, and don't get me wrong, I
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: know they wear themselves out and they run themselves down,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: But if you have the nutrition on your property to
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: help maintain that dear's body weight when he's going back
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: into the late winter spring antler growth and he's got
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: plenty of nutrition, uh, you know, he's his body is
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: able to really put an extra percentage in those antler
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: growth rather than just on the body weight. Yeah, let's
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: let's keep going down this road. Um. Because while people
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: certainly are still trying to get some hunting in over
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the next month or so. Um. There's also a lot
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of people whose seasons are wrapping up and the new
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: year is just a matter of days away. And at
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: least for me, this is that time of reflection and
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: looking back on the year and then planning for the
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: new year. So from a habitat and property management perspective,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: how do you go about your doing this yourself or
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: recommend other people? Kind of auditing what they have as
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: they start planning out their plans for the new year. Um,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: what's that look like for you as you as you
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: analyze things from the past and think through where we're going,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you know, in the coming six to twelve months. So
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I think the best time to do it while you're
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: it's when you're sitting out there in a tree stand
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: and you're observing your habitat and you're observing what the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: deer like and what the deer don't. Um, you can
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: you can visualize because you know, with me, I hunt
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: several stand locations. So as I'm sitting in a tree stand,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I'm looking around thinking thinking, man, I have got to
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: get more cover in this valley right here. So that's
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: in my mind, and maybe I'll pull my cell phone
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: out and make a note my Uh, the northeast valley
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: within our farm, I need to get in and do
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: some hinge cutting in January and February. Um. You know.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: So as I'm on the tree stand, I'm thinking about
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: different things that I want to do on the farm. Now.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I will not start doing anything on the farm until
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: the last day of hunting season is over. If I
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: if I'm finished hunting for the year and I go
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: out and I start um doing hinge cutting or or
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: or making larger areas for my food plots or whatever,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: there's a good chance I could push the deer off
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: the farm onto the neighbor's property during a hunting season
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and they could end up killing deer that I wanted
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: to kill next year. And so I'm not going to
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: do anything on the farm until after January six here
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: in Indiana. That's just that's me. That's just what I do. UM.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: If I go into the farm other than approaching a
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: tree stand right now, I'm always going in on an
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: a t V. And even when i'm I might be
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: changing a tree stand, I do that with the a
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: t V running. And I have found that that as
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: long as that, as long as there's a machine of
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: some sort, it doesn't seem to bother the deer that bad.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Now I'm not driving it through the batting areas or
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: my sanctuaries or anything like that. But when I'm going
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: around a farm to check trail cameras, or like last Sunday,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I moved a tree stand and and I left the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: A t V running while I moved the tree stand.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I don't think that. I don't
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: think that spooked the deer or pushed the deer off
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. So as I'm thinking about different
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: habitat improvements, I'm thinking about those when I'm sitting on
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: the on my tree stand, observing the habitat, thinking about
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: what I need to do, and maybe making notes on
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: on my cell phone or if you've got a little
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: notepad with you too, um, And then I'm thinking about
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: implementing those habitat improvements as starting as soon as I can,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: as soon as hunting season is over. Now, if I'm
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: going to go out and start doing a lot of
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting or something like that, maybe I like to
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: do it when it's coover. So maybe I'll do it
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: in the winter. But um, you know, I'm not going
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: to be out there consistently making habitat improvements between January
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: and July, or or you're gonna there's just gonna be.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, there's just gonna be a little too
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: much activity on the property. What do you recommend to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: folks when it comes to trying to prioritize all these ideas?
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Because someone could do what you subscribe, set up in
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: their tree throughout the fall, and they're thinking, they're, Okay, man,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I wish I had more food here and be cool
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: to have a food plot there, and I need more
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: cover here, and maybe I can improve an access round
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: over here, and you know, YadA to YadA. There's a
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: thousand different things you could do. How do you recommend
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: someone prioritize, whether that be on a property they've been
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: working with for years, or maybe they just bought a
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: new farm, or they just picked a police and they're saying, Okay,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: where do I start? So my suggestion is, what is
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: the number one limiting factor on your farm affecting your
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: dear herd? Is it food? Is it cover or is
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: it water? If you've got plenty of cover, but you're
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: limited on food, then I would focus on food. If
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: you've got plenty of food, Like on my farm, I've
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: got plenty of food because of of natural succession that
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: takes place in the four stand, A lot of my
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: betting areas have grown into are starting to grow back
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: into a two A four stand. So my focus this
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: year this winter will be improving the betting areas and
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: improving cover um And actually, uh here, as soon as
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: dear season is over, I'm actually getting ready to market
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: timber harvest onto my farm because we've got some areas
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: that are mature. I've got some white oak I'd like
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: to release for better acorn production, and so I'm going
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: to create betting areas through the timber harvest and also
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: help release some of the white ook get better white
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: oak acorn production. But if water is an issue on
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: your farm, then you know you might want to be
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: thinking about building a pond or creating some type of
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: a small wildlife pond on the property for water. But
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: but I would look at your property and ask yourself
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: what is the number one most limiting factor? Is it food,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: is it cover, or is it water? Because any wildlife
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: species requires that those are the three main components of
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: habit that food, water, and shelter, and you've got to
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: have all three of them. Uh So if if if
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: you've got plenty of cover, but all your deer going
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: on to the neighbors to eat the food, I'd be
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: thinking about food. Um, you know, but if you've got
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: plenty of food but you're starting to lack cover and
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: you're finding that the deer are starting to bed on
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: your neighbors, then I would be thinking to do thinking
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: about habitat improvements to improve the cover. Does any of
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: that change if you have a really small property versus
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: a really large one? Um? Have you found that? Man,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: when you've got those super small properties, X is particularly
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: important or no matter what, you're always gonna want to
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: look in an exam what that limiting factors? If you've
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: got a really really small property. I mean, you can
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: always put out some type of food source to at
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: least get a shot at a deer, you know too,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: so they would come out of bedding cover or something
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: and just stand there a minute and feed. Uh But
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're looking at a really small property,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: I think the key to that is going to be cover.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is because you have
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: and it's just my opinion, but you have an area
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: that a lot, say, if you have a large farm
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: around you and they've got all the habitat components you
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: can want, and there's a lot of guys hunting, those
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: deer are going to be searching for an area that's
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: small and isolated. Um. And you know, if they've got
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: just like that little three and half acre woods right
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: behind my house, if they've got a little area like
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: that that they can escape to, they're never pressured and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: they've got cover and they like it there. You know,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: if you can improve the cover on that property and
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: then and then hunt around that property in a way
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: to you know, because at some point the deer are
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: going to leave there to go to a food source. Um.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, I think that would
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: be really important because you know, if you've got a
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: little ten or fifteen or twenty acre woods and you
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: really don't have any place to put food. Uh. You know,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: even if you can't clear a little ridge top of
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: some kind of put in a clover plot or something
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: like that, you might be a little bit limited. So
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: the easiest thing you could do is to create cover
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: and and allow those deer sanctuary on that little fifteen
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: or twenty acres. So, so walk me through how you
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: would do that. And I know you alluded to some
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: of the stuff you're gonna do on your own farm.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: What are your different tools for improving cover that that
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: you liked it to use or recommend your your clients use.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I know you do a lot with timber stand improvement.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I've seen you talk about native grasses. I'd love to
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: hear you expand on some of those things. Okay, So
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: if you're talking if you have an area that is
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: would say, if you have twenty or forty acres of timber,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you know naturally your cover is going to be creating
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: a betting area within that twenty or forty acres um So,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: as a forester, I don't want to ruin the the
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: quality of my forest stand because my goals are two fold.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: My goals are growing timber for a revenue at some
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: point in time, but at the same time of my
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: goals are improved habitat excuse me. And so if my
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: goals are twofold like that, I'm gonna I'm gonna select
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: areas to go into. Say, for example, if I've got
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the woods that it's just it just appears to be
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: pretty mature. It's ready for a timber sale, or or
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: it could have it could stand at timber harvest. I'm
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: going to go into that woods and I'm going to
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: select those areas that you know, I know are going
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: to provide a lot of cover really quick, maybe an
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: east or northeast or north facing slope, and I like
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: the toes of those small ridges, and I'm gonna go
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: in there and I'm gonna I'm gonna mark every single
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: three I can. Basically, you're making a small regeneration opening.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: And depending on the size of the property, it could
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: be a half acre in size, it could be six
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: acres in size. Uh. And I'm going to take all
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: the timber out of there. And then once that timber
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: is removed, and I'm going to go in with timberstand
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: improvement and take out those trees that um that we
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: don't want to leave, um that the timber cell didn't remove.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: So those will either cut those down to make as
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: large of an opening as we can, or we can
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: hinge cut some of those trees based on your management goals.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Now I've cautioned people with the hinge cutting. I've been
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: on properties where people have gone in and done a
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: lot of hinge cutting, and and they didn't know their
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: tree species, and they've gone through and hinge cut all
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the red oak and white oak, and they left a
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: bunch of poplar and soft maple and beech. Um. It
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: can be really discouraging when you see that um, you know,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: so I would encourage your listeners to to get an
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: idea of the tree species or meat with a forester
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: or something when you go out. If you're thinking about
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: creating these betting areas using inge cutting and and hinge cut,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: those tree species that you know are going to sprout well,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: like a soft maple or beach or sassafras, hinge cut
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: those they're going to sprout back really well. And that
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: way you're not ruining the residual value or the future
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: value of your timberstand, but you're also creating habitat. And
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: so in those foested stand in those four stand areas,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: you know, once we once we have a timber harvest,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: if it needs it, then we'll go back and do
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: timberstand improvement. Then we'll select those areas that we want
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: to do the hinge cutting on and I always select
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: those areas mark that that I know the deer already using.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: If I've got a spot on my farm and I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: know I've never seen those bed there, I've never seen
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: bucks bed there. I don't know why they just don't
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: like it. But I got another area on the other
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: side of this ridge where that seems like they always
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: want to bed and they always want to be there.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: You know, if I've got an area like that, that's
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: the area I want to improve because if i'm I'm
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: if I'm improving their home, they're going to want to
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: stay there. And so I would encourage people to kind
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: of kind of look at that as well. And so
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: so if you're if you're looking at forest and you
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: can look at possible timber harvest and after the timber
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: harvest to post harvest timber stand improvement and incorporate your
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting after that. If you're looking at a forest
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: stand that is a really young stand. Um. I looked
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: at a track of timber for a client a few
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: months ago, and once deer season is over, they're going
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: to do the work. But I'm going back into their
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: property and I'm going to flag all the all the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: young white oak and red oak trees to make because
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: they could to make sure that they don't cut them.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: And then they're gonna they're gonna go through this stand
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: of timber because it's full of of sycamore and soft
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: maple and elm, and they're gonna do some hinge cutting
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: pockets based on our map and our plan, but they're
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: not going to hinge ut those future acorn producing trees.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: And so you know that's that's a particular property where
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: there's not enough mature timber to have a timber cell.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: But they can go out on a couple of weekends
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: in January and February and start doing some really good
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting and which I think will improve the cover
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: habitat on their property immensely. How big do you recommend
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: those types of cover improvements be, whether it be a
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting pocket or you know some of these other
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: t s I type projects when you're trying to improve
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: betting and wildlife cover. Is there a size of cat
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be any smaller than this, or it should be
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: at least this big, or or is it just do
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: whatever you can. I think it's based on your objectives
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: for the farm. Um, if you have an eighty or
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: a hundred or a hundred, twenty acres or anything larger
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: than that. You know, there's nothing wrong with having a
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: three to five to six or eight acre opening. You know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: if you only own twenty acres, that's that's a pretty
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: good size opening. But there's nothing wrong with it if
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: your goal is cover and habitat. But what I like
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: to do is I like to create a large opening,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and I call that my dope betting areas. And then
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: then what I'll do is I'll create a couple smaller openings,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: like a satellite. I call it a satellite opening, maybe
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: just a few yards away from that dope bedding opening
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I made. And that smaller opening is going to be
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: tailored to my buck betting UM and so I and
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: it's just my choice to do that. UM. I really
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: like UM too. I would like to go. I like
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: to go into an area and create an area that
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: I know the does are going to bed in UM.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: But I also want to create it in a fashion
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: that I know, UM that I can hunt close to it.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: For example, on my farm, we've got a long ridge
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: that runs through the farm, and and on the north
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: side of that ridge is a valley um and that's
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: where I'm going to focus part of my timber cell
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: in that valley, because I know the dough like to
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: go in that valley. But there's also a little pocket
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: at the east end of that ridge that's got a
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: bunch of small cedar and some small sassaf a cedar
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: and percimmon at the end of that ridge. And the
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: dough bed either on that on that north facing slope,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: or they bed on that west facing slope where the
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: cover is. But that ridge right in the middle uh
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: is where I come in from the east and I
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: hunt that ridge because it's a it's it's a little
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: bit more mature, it's got a lot of white oak
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: on it, and the dough come in circle around that
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: ridge and then go into their bedding areas when the
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: wind is out of the west, and it's just a
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: home run hunting area because the bucks just when the
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: winds out of the west, they just come winding both
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: of those bedding areas all the time. So I keep
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: that ridge somewhat open. So that's a whole idea of
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: a plan. You've got You don't want to just go
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: out and start cutting things down. You've got to have
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: a plan that this is a betting area and this
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: is where I hunt. How am I going to approach
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: it in the morning, How am I going to approach
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: it in the evening with with certain type of wind directions?
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: And you know that sometimes that just takes a little
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: bit of time in a couple or a few years
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: to learn that. And so, for example, on my farm,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to improve both of those betting areas, but
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not going to do a lot on top
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: of that ridge, and so my improvement might be through
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: a timber harvest and then post harvest timber stand improvement,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: and then hinge cutting in the little area of where
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the cedar trees are. There's not We're not going to
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: do a timber harvest in there, the timber is not
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: mature enough. But I will go into where some of
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that poplar and soft maple and beach are and I
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: will do quite a bit of hinge cutting in that
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: area just to improve that spot. Back to that comment
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: you made about how you'll make the larger openings for
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: does and then you'll create these satellite openings um nearby
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: for bucks. Is there any rhyme or reason to the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: orientation of where the dough betting area versus the buck
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: betting is. I know some people propose something like this
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: where they'll let's say you've got a food source. Let's
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: say your proper is a four square, and let's say
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: there's food on the south side, and will say they
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: I've heard, will look at making your dough betting areas
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: just north of that. So closest to the food would
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: be your big opening for does, and then the buck
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: betting might naturally be behind that. So further north of that,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: is that how you orient your satellite bedding from the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: main betting. Is it behind it? Or or does that
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: not matter? What's your thought process there? Yeah, I like
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: that approach, but I also base mine on topography. So
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: let me let me walk you through a little scenario
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: on my farm. So right in the middle of our
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: our farm is is like a it's shaped like a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: dog's leg. It's almost l shaped. But right in the
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: middle of the l at our farm actually gets narrow.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Right there, that's the narrowest portion. And so real close
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: to that narrow portion is it's where the creek valley
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: goes through. It's kind of low, it's almost like a bowl.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: It's very very difficult to hunt. Um, but that's where
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: my food sources are. Okay, So you go from from
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: that little bowl where my food plots are, and then
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: you start going east east. Just adjacent to the food
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: plots is a half acre pond, and then adjacent east
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: of the half acre pond are my doll bedding areas.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: And then you go just a little bit east of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: that and you can get satellite spots where the bucks
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: bed and then just east of that you get into
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: a little more mature timber on our farm where we
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: have a lot of white oak and black oak, And
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: so I can approach the farm to hunt with a
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: west wind that if I approach it from the east,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I never approached the farm and walk through that area
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: going to my tree stand. And so to answer your question, yes,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I would put those satellite those bucks satellite areas a
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: little bit farther out, but I'm also not gonna put
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: those satellite areas too close to the neighbor's property or
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: too close to state land. And when I said that,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: I base it on topography. And this is just my
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: experience as a forester, not a habitat manager or anything.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: My experience thirty years in the woods as a forester,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I have found piles of not at the same time,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: but I've got piles of deer sheds in my pole barn.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Where if you walk out a ridge and then drop
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: off that ridge and get halfway down that ridge on
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: that toe there, it seems like there's always a little
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: bench right there. And that bench might be ten ft
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: in diameter, it might be four feet in diameter, but
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: it's a little spot. You go into those areas this
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: time of year, or in January February their war flat,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and that is where I always find sheds, and I
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: call those buck benches. And so when I when I'm
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: looking at a plan for a client, if I'm going
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: to implement an opening for a dough betting area in
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: this area, I'm gonna look topographically at those little toes
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: where I know bucks have a tendency to bed and
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: they like those areas because if somebody comes in from
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: the top of the ridge, they have a quick escape
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: group right down to the creek creek valley because they're
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: halfway down already. If somebody comes in from the creek valley,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: they got as quick escape group right to the back
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: to the top of the ridge. Um, so I'm going
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: to try to improve those areas on the toes of
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: those benches for the bucks because I know they're already
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: betting there, and then and then create a larger betting
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: area somewhere adjacent to the at for the does. But
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I don't want any of those betting areas to be
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: too close to the neighbors, because you know, once the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: neighbors find out that you have a lot of good habitat,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: you'll start seeing a lot of tree stands along your
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: property line. Yeah. So how do you typically orient uh
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: improvements in relation to that? Do you try to keep
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: most improvements towards the center of a property? Um? There's
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of different opinions on how you should create
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: improvements to try to keep deer using parts of years
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: while you know you can look at Some people say
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: try to draw a deer from other people to yours.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Some people will say put your best stuff in the center,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: So keep stuff in the middle. Is that overthinking things? Um?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on just orientation regards to
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: property lines? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I've got my own
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: opinion on that. I don't ever put food right next
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: to my neighbors, that's for sure. You know, I'm not
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: going to put a big clover plot in a big
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: patch of eagle soybeans in October that are green right
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: now my neighbor's property so much so they can kill
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: my dear. Um. You know, sometimes if that's all you got,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: that's all you've got. But I I like to try
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: to put as much cover as I can toward the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: middle of the property if if your property allows you
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: to do that based on its topography or orientation, you know,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: because I mean, if you've got to cover and you've
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: got the betting um and you've got that sanctuary in
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the middle of your property, you know, you can always
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: approach that property from different directions to hunt it. Um.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I like it. I like it towards the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: middle of I mean, it doesn't have to You don't
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: have to draw a circle and then put an extraw
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: circle and put a dot in the middle of that
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: X and say I have to have my cover here.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: You know, it's based on your the aerial photo, and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: it's based on the topography of the of the property
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: as well. Um. You know, you may have a small
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: neck of the betting area based on the topography, that's
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: going to be closer to the neighbor's property line. It's
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: closer than you wanted to be. But based on based
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: on the soils and based on the aspect or the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: direction that the ridge might be facing, or something that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: might be the best place for at that time. So UM,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you you have to you have to look
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: at it as a whole that way. But I do
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: like to have as much cover as I can towards
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the center of my property. Yeah, now what about the
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: flip side of this, um, where we we've just talked about,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: you know, improving cover where there already is timber, where
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: there already is some cover. But what about a situation
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: where you've got wide open fields and you want to
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: create cover. Um, this this is exactly what I was
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: dealing with on the back forty property where you came
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: out and helped us select some trees that we can
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: start planning throughout that. UM. I want to dive into
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: a bunch of things related to that, but I guess
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: at a high level, if you had what we had,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: which was a farm with about half the acreage in
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: these old farm fields and they were covered previously and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: mostly in Mayor's tale. So an invasive weed that was
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: providing very little food or cover. Um. Then we had
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: to start trying to transform those old fields into something
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: that would work for us. What would your what would
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: your take be on how to do that? Um? I
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: tried some things and and some of it worked. But
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I'm curious now if that was your place and you
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: had five years or whatever to start trying to transform that,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: what would what avenue would you have taken? So when
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: you're talking to agg fields and cover, you know, because
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: when we when we talk about cover, we want for
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: our deer in the wintertime, we'd like to have good
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: thermal cover. So you know, if you dropped to the
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: ground on your knees and and picture a deer laying down, Um,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: are they going to be out of the wind? Uh?
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: And are they going to be protected from the wind? Um?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: That's why some sometimes it's inside the woods. That's why
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: timber harvesting can be good because you know they'll bed
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: in those old tree tops right up against the an
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: old piece of log that was left out in the woods,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: you know, and the wind is off their back. But
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: when you get into an area where you know you
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: don't have a lot of timber cover, and you're you
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: have a heavy field component, then you need to be
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: looking at native grasses. If if what you're looking for
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: is cover, Now you can always plant a mix of
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: grasses and pollinators. UM and if here's another caveat to this,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: and I've done this for a client up in UH
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: north central Indiana and it worked out really well. He planted, UH,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: they planted several acres of native grasses. The deer were
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: using it, but he couldn't get the deer to come
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: farther onto his farm because they love the native grasses.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So what we did is we actually planted a travel
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: corridor of mixed evergreens. So we planted a mix of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: white pine and northern white cedar between the native grasses
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: and between his farm where we did the timber sail
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: and the hinge cutting. And you cannot believe how that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: turned out to be a highway for deer. They would
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: bed in those prairie grasses, but they would use that
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: travel because other than that, they didn't have any way
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: to get from the prairie grasses a quarter of a
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: mile back to his farm. UM for some wooded cover
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and the food. And so we we planted that mix
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: of evergreens as a travel cord or between the native
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: grasses and where the food and the and the wooded
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: cover or the forested cover was, and it turned out
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: just outstanding. So I think a good mix of native
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: grass cover UH for a betting area as well as
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: some type of tree planting, especially with evergreens to use
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: as a travel corridor um you know, is really good.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: You can also mix some shrubs in there, because you know,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: shrubs will grow anywhere from three to four ft high
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: to fifteen ft high, but they're really bushy and they
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: provide a lot of cover. The drawback with some of
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: the evergreens like pine or to draw back if you
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: just did a general tree planting is at some point
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: in time, the crown is going to be higher than
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: the ground and so you've lost that thermal cover. And
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: that's why the prairie grasses are so good, and that's
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: why the shrubs are good because you still have that
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: cover from five ft up in the air down to
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: the ground that's protecting those deer from the wind. Yeah,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: you mentioned those travel corridors that you planted um in
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: pines for that one client. If if I were trying
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: to create something like that where I wanted to direct
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: deer travel across some kind of opening, and and we're
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: going to use some type of ever green component. What's
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: the size? What was the orient Haitian? As far as
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: planting those trees? Was it two rows of pines? Was
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: it you know, fifty yards wide or ten yards wide?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Or how did you actually make it so that it
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: was big enough for deer to feel comfortable but still
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: funnel them in that way? And how long did it
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: take for those trees to get big enough to to
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: provide that cover? So we actually used just the bare
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: root ceilings and used my tree senter. Uh but I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: mean because you know, we were going feet so I mean,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: if you were going to use container trees, you'd have
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: been shelling out a lot of money because that would
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: have been a lot of trees. So what we did
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: is and you have to basing on what you know.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: He he was allowed uh thirty or fifty feet because
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: he didn't he himself didn't own that portion that we
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: planted it on. It was on the family farm, and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: they said, okay, we'll let you put a travel corridor
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: in there a thirty five feet or something like that
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: because they wanted to continue farming the rest of the field.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: Basic basically glue, we took thirty or forty ft of
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: their indrows. And so what we did is we planted
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: a mix of white pine and northern white cedar, and
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: they were barroots seedlings, um. And we planted those ten
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: ft apart between trees, and then we did eight ft
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: between rows, and then the next row we staggered. So basically,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: if you have one row of trees where the trees
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: are ten ft apart, the next row of trees eight
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: or ten ft over, you're gonna plant those trees in
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: those gaps. So you so basically the trees are staggered,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: and we did that for four rows. So you've got
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: one row of trees, you're offsetting an eight or ten
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: ft and you're planting another row of trees, but you're
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: not lining those trees up. You're planting them in those gaps.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: And and then then you then the third row you're
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: planting the same as the first row, or maybe just
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: offset just a little bit um. And they were bare
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: roots seedlings. But to be quite honest with you, be
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: cause because they hadn't farmed it, and because the trees
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: were there, and because weeds were starting to grow between
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: the tree rows, deer started using it the first year
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: because you know, you're going to get weeds in between
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: those tree rows, and so you've you've you've still got
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit of native natural cover there because maybe
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: you've got some ragweed or some mary's tail coming in
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: between the three rows that are three and four ft tall.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: But within you know, within five years, these trees were
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: four to five ft tall. And I mean that, I
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: mean the rubs on some of those trees were quite phenomenal.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: I mean it was even even my client was was surprised.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: He just couldn't believe how well that worked. And so yeah,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: I mean it it it can be, it can be done.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And there again, you know, if you don't want to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: plant all evergreen, you can always plant shrubs. But if
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: you just keep in mind, if you plant like a
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: native hard with like a white out black oak or
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: red oak, at some point in time, the limbs are
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: going to be six or eight feet off the ground
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: and you're you're gonna lose that cover. Um, So you know,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: I would plant something that you have cover all the
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: way to the ground because that helps the deer feel safe. Yeah,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: so when we met up this summer, you would walk
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: to me through a handful of different things to be
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: thinking about when trying to plant these evergreens. UM, just
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they took well. And you mentioned
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: some of it as far as you know your spacing
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: between trees. But for those that want to plant trees
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: like this to improve cover in certain places, can you
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: walk us through some basics of of the right way
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: to do it, the right time to do it, um,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: any other specifics as far as getting these things in
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: the grounds that they will take and last and perform
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: the function we want them to. So you want to
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: make sure that the trees you plant are healthy, so
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: you want to make sure you get them from a
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: good source. And in Indiana we are they bless the
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: Indiana Division of Forestry. We have a we have a
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: tree nursery. It's actually five miles from my house. And
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I actually went to Produe with the guys who actually
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: run the nursery now. But Bob and Rob absolutely do
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: an outstanding job of growing the seedlings that the state sells,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: and so I know when I buy the seedlings from
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: blown the nursery there in southern Indiana. They're going to
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: be good and they're going to be healthy. And so
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: they actually pull those trees out of the beds this
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: time of year right up to the point where the
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: ground freezes because the trees are dormant. And then then
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: they put them in mulch and wrap them in bundles
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: of a hundred and they put some water in the mulch,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: and then they keep them in coolers. Uh. And that
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: keeps the trees dormant. And you want to plant the
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: trees in the spring as early as you can when
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: the ground is not frozen. So we depending on the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: soil temperatures, and depending on the conditions of the ground,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: we'll start planting trees anywhere from you know, the middle
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: of March and will continue planting all the way up
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: until uh, you know, middle of May, one of June.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you get into an area that's river bottoms
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: that goes underwater a lot, those are going to be
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit later planting, because I would rather plant
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: a tree in a flood zone a little bit later
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: than I would too early, because it's really hard on
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: the trees when they go underwater. So if you know,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: if the listeners out there have areas that are in floodplains,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: you know, don't I wouldn't hesitate to plant those trees
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit later, um rather than rather than too early,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: because when they go underwater like that, it can it
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: can be a little bit hard on them because you
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: don't want your tree standing in water. And there's some
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: areas that you know, they just flood and that's going
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: to happen. The second thing is you want to really
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: make sure you select the trees that you're going to
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: plant based on your soil types. Uh. You know, if
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: you're planting on a a drier area and you want
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: to plant hardwoods that you don't want to plant a
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: bottom bottom land hardwood like a swamp white oak or
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: a swamp chestnut oak. You're going to want to plant
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: a regular white oak or regular red oak because they
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: you know, because they're used to those soil types, those
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: drier soil types. But there again, if you're planting in
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: wet areas that flood, you want to make sure that
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: the tree species you're planting can handle being in water
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: for a certain amount of time. So in those flood zones,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: you know you're gonna plant something like bald cypress or
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: or swamp white oak or swamp chestnut oak or shumart
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: oak one of those uh native a native species to
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: your state that can grow well in those in those
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: soil conditions. Um. But and then uh, you know, once
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: once you pick the trees up, if you can get
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: them in the ground as soon as you can, um,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: that's always good. Because you know, when we open a
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: bundle of trees, the roots are cold from being in
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: the from being in the coolers, and so it's going
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: to take a little time for that seedling for those
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: roots to warm them up once it goes into the ground.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: And that's okay because that's just that's just a natural
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: time frame for the tree to come out of dormancy. UM.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and I don't suggest we don't plant trees
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: in the fall uh at all, because are the success
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: of fall plantings is not nearly as good as spring
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: plantings because you don't have the rain. You'd like to
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: get some moisture on those trees before that ground freezes.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: And if you if you do a fall planting and
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: it's dry and you haven't had much rainfall, and then
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: we get a really early cold winter, you could end
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: up having some root damage due to frost heave or
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: frost or freezing or something of that nature, because the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: trees haven't had time to expand that new root system
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: to really get established. So the springtime is usually the
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: best time to plant them. Now, if it's a small
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: planting and you can get a two gallon tank and
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: go out and water, and you know, there's nothing wrong
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: with planting them late in the spring in the early summer.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: You just have to make sure that you know you
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: can get water to them, because I mean, my wife
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: and I planted some around the house um this past
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: summer and they were late planting. But you know, I've
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: got a couple two d gallon tanks and and we
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: have a water source there in town where the farmers
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: and go and get water at the county water treatment facility,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: and you know, I would just go in a couple
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: of evenings when it got hot and we got the
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: trees water and they were going to turn out fine.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: So but springtime is usually the best time to plant.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: Do you have any preferred species when you're trying I
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: know you mentioned evergreen, and you mentioned a couple that
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: you used on that client's um. But as far as
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: cover producing trees, So most of these evergreens, um, are
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: there any that do particularly well as far as the
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: amount of you know, actual cover they provide, or their
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: resistance to deer wining to browse on them or anything
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: like that. Cover wise, you know, if you're wanting trees
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: or shrubs for for a really good thermal cover, then
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: you know you want to you want to really look
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: at something that's gonna have that's gonna provide branching all
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: the way to the ground. And that's why you know,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: some of the shrubs are really good. Something like hazel
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: nuts really good because it's it's just it has a
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: tendency to grow into the just a thick shrub and
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: plus they they produce mass of fruit, so you know
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: that's a really good one. UM. And then uh, you know,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I like I like white pine, but you have to
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: be careful with white pine because everybody wants to prune
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: the branches so they can mow around the base of them,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: and then you look at them five years later and
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: the branches are seven feet off the ground. So I
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: mean the key to that is, you know, you want
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: to keep the branches as low as ground as possible. Um.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Norway spruce is a good one that I have planted
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of. UM. That's a really good evergreen that
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: the limbs grow right down to the ground. And again
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: you don't want to prune those limbs next to the ground. UM.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: And I honestly I've been planting some green giant arbor
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: vite Um. You know, they're not necessarily it's more of
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: a landscape tree, but boy, it sure provides really quick
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: wind cover. And you know that that it's it's a
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: it's very cone shaped, very conical shaped. Uh. And they'll
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: grow fifteen feet wide and twenty feet tall UM. And
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: they grow very fast. If you plant them on the
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: right side, they'll grow three to five ft per year.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: The ones I've planted around our house when we built
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen are already seven ft tall UM.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: So I mean they'll grow very fast. I don't recommend
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: you plant the whole travel corridor or the whole cover
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: area to those. I always like like to see a mix.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: And the reason you want to mix your tree species
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: up is say, for example, if you plant all white
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: pine or you plant all white oak, and you get
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: a disease in that planting it's going to wipe out
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: the whole planting and then you're gonna have nothing. And
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: so you don't want just a monoculture of trees. You
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: want a good variety. So you know, you might plant
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: and mix a northern white ceedar white pine and and
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: uh green giant arbor bide and then throw in some
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: uh some hazel nut or some crab apple with those.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: You know, so you you ay, you've got really good
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: foraging opportunities for variety of wildlife species. Plus you're providing
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: a corridor or plus with some with some good thermal cover.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: You you describe some of the things that are exactly
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: what we tried to do um on our property and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: in mostly because of your recommendations as far as providing
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: that diversity and species, and we ended up doing these
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: clusters of four or five tree ease and somewhere those
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: are provieties somewhere white pines, somewhere uh spruce and and
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: I think one of the other things is that you're
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: gonna get different types of use by wildlife with them too.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: And some you know, dear will rub on, some deer won't.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: So in our cases, I've already seen a couple that
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: got rubbed up. Um, And I'm glad we didn't plant
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: all of our trees in that species because we might
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: have been in trouble. Um. But what about in relation
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: to that, what about protecting some of these things? Just
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: should someone be caging these trees early on, uh, to
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: avoid that issue of either browse pressure or deer rubbing
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: them up and killing them anything like that. Yeah, you know,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: depending on how long your travel corridor is, or you know,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: if you're creating a bedding area, you know, and it
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: depends on how many trees you have, it might be
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: a situation where, um, for the first two or three years,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: you may want to just take that like either electric
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: tape with a so or power source and and just
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: almost fence the whole area off to try to keep
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: deer out of it, to keep them from browsing the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: trees and to keep them from rubbing them in the fall.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Or if you know, if you've got a small enough area,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: you can always fence to cage the trees. So, for example,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I've planted a lot of orchard plantings for clients, and
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: with when you're planting orchards, the deer love to browse
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: them and the bucks love to rub them because they're
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: aromatic and it's soft wood, and it's just a great
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: opportunity to destroy a tree when a buck is in rut.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: And so we I actually use like a mesh wire
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: or fencing, so to speak, and and wrap that tree. Basically,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: if you plant put a tree in the ground, UM,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: then I'm going to build a small fence around that
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: tree so the tree can continue to grow. But at
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: the same time I'm able to keep the deer off
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: of it. So you know, I want to do more
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: than just just fence off the the stem of the tree.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: I'm fencing off, especially with pine trees or with fruit trees.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm fencing off if that tree. If the diameter of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: the tree is safe, for example two ft, I'm fencing
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: off a four ft area just to keep the deer
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: off of it. This topic that you brought up of
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: the orchard trees beast producing trees, I've seen some videos
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: of you talking through different ideas around that, and that's
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: something I've not done but always thought I should. I've
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: just been intimidated by UM how you have to do
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: these different types of pruning, and there's certain times of
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: the year and you gotta do that right, and I
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: just have never went through with it because I just
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: haven't committed. Um, that's probably mistake I realized, because the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: best time to plan a tree was yesterday or ten
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: years ago. But can you walk me through some of
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: your dues and don't when it comes to planning, you know,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: apple trees or other soft masked um stuff like that
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: in addition to what you just described about the cajing.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: So with fruit trees, UM, you've got to start with
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: the site. The key to fruit trees is you want
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: to make sure that the morning sun can get to
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: those trees as soon as it comes up, or as
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: soon as possible, because the hardest thing on the fruit
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: tree is if that morning dew stays on those leaves
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: and on those stems um way into the day, because
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: that's how you start getting the fungal diseases that are
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: so prevalent and can kill fruit trees. And so you know,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: if you're if you have a have a ridge top
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: that's open and you've got and the wind can get
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: to it and the sun can get to it, that's great.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: If you're in a shaded valley and the sun doesn't
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: get down there until noon or one o'clock. I would
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: not even consider planting fruit trees in that shaded valley. Um,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: I think you would end up having disease issues. Now
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you can try it and you might
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: have success with it, that's great, But if I'm going
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: to provide that service for a client, that's not an
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: area I'm gonna select. So site is very important. So
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: you can get the wind to them to keep the
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: leaves dry, and you get sun to them as early
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: as you can in the morning. And I like to
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: use container trees with when I'm planting an orchard, just
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna start getting fruit so much sooner. Um,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: So I'll buy container trees. And I mean honestly, you know,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: if the tree looks if you go to any of
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: these farm stores like Real King or Tractors, supply they
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: have them in the spring. You know, if the roots
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: system looks good, look at the roots system, look at
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: the stem of the tree to make sure that doesn't
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: have a bunch of damage or or cuts or scars
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: on it. And then look at the crown of the tree.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: You know, especially in the spring. Yeah, when you're getting
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: ready to plant the trees, if they those buds are
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: getting fat, you know that that's going to be a
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: healthy tree. So so be selective on which trees you
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: pick out, and then you want a good mix of them.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: So if you're gonna plant ten trees, I'm gonna plant
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: maybe two or three apple trees, a couple of pear trees,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: a couple of plum trees, and maybe a peach tree.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: And the whole idea of that is each tree is
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: gonna flower or bloom differently, and so you really want
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: a good mix of blooms. So these trees can cross pollinates.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: So so the bees and the pollinators that are coming
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: in to pollinate these trees are just flying all around
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: these trees um pollinating. So you can get good fruit production.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Because you know, if you if all you do is
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: go out and plant, say, for example, in Arkansas, apple trees,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: and you plant ten of those, and you know they
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: produce quite a few flowers, but not a lot, you
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: may not be able to attract the pollinators that you want.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: But if you go in and plant crab, apple and
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: plum with those apple trees, crab apples really flour, plums
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: really flower and and they really smell nice. And that's
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: really going to attract the butterflies and the bees, which
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: is going to draw the butterflies and the bees to
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: your apple trees, which is really going to help with pollination.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: And so I like a good mix of fruit trees
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: like that, and you want to plan them in a
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: situation in a in a in a manner in which
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: you know they have plenty of room to grow. I
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: plan them twenty to thirty ft apart, because once you
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: know the first two to three years of planting a tree,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: that after you put a tree in the ground in
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: the first two or three years, it's going to maximize
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: its root growth. You're gonna get some crown growth, but
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: it's really going to put a lot of energy into
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: those roots because it has to have a foundation to
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: hold up that tree, and so you don't really want
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: that tree to put it on a lot of new
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: growth that first year. So when you put the tree
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: in the ground and you plant it, you want to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: prune that tree back and then you want all that
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: new year's that first two to three years of growth
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: go into that root system. And so you know, once
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: that root system takes off, you'll you'll see after year
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: three or four that the crown of that tree will
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: just really take off and you don't really have to
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: worry about other than when you first plant that tree,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: you don't really have to worry about pruning it for
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe another five or six years. Now you
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: can just you can just let it, let it grow,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: unless it's unless it's a tree that's been there five
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: or six years and you're really starting to get a
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: lot of branches crossing each other and you're getting some wounds,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: then you need then you might want to talk about pruning.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: But you know, pruning is important on the fruit trees,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: but you know, if you don't have time to do it,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: keep in mind their fruit trees for deer. You know,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: you're not you're not an apple orchard where you're selling
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: the apples. If you don't have time to do it,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: then you don't have time to do it. And and
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: the nice thing about fruit trees are you know, it's
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily an essential, but it's just another attractive
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: food source that a mass producing food food source that
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: deer like. I love per symmetries, dear love per symmetries,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: and I like the fruit trees we have on the farm.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: You know, some years are really going to produce well.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: But if we end up getting a late frost some years,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: they're not going to prouce that produce that well at all.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: I saw somewhere where you're talking about a really interesting
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: way to get double duty out of your orchards, where
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: you were prescribing the idea of planting soybeans around your
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: orchard trees too. So rather than have just a bunch
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: of weeds growing up in all that open space between
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: your rows, you were actually no till planting beans in there.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: Can you describe that idea and when or why that'd
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: be appropriate? Sure? So, you want to maximize as much
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: land as you can. You know, when when you first
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: plant the your fruit orchard, you know the trees are
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: twenty ft apart or maybe even thirty ft apart, because
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: you want to give them plenty of room to grow.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: Uh So in order to rather than just going down
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: through there three times a year in mowing it, you
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: might might as well utilize that space. So I've got
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: I've got a couple of clients in particular that we
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: planted fruit orchards on and then I just I know,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: till the soybeans right between the tree rows. Um and
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: it's and we just we just and yeah, A that
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: provides a really good forage opportunity and be that you're
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: maximizing your land value that way. Now, one thing we
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: don't do is is I don't go through with a
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: tiller or with a disk or a plow and and
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: do any kind of tillage between those fruit trees because
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want to damage the roots. But I'm not
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: afraid to pull a no tail drill through because you
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: know that no tail drill is only going down a
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: half inch or an inch, and so you're not damaging
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: the fruit trees that way. The other thing you have
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: to be careful about when you're planting soybeans between fruit
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: trees is fruit trees are very susceptible to herbicide drift.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: And so if you're using you around up ready soybean
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: and you plant your soybeans between your fruit trees, you've
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: got to make sure that your herbicide application and the
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: nozzles you are using on your spray equipment are are
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: our nozzles to where you don't get a lot of drift.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: So uh, I use an air induction nozzle on my
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: spray applicators on my spray applications, it produces a larger droplet,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: so I get considerably less drift. But when that that
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: that herbicide mixes with the air inside that nozzle, and
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: so the larger droplet when it hits the leaf of
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: the plant that you're spraying or the weeds that you're spraying,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: it kind of splatters. So your coverage and your application
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: rate is the same, but your particle size coming out
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: of the nozzle is the larger, so you don't get
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: near the drift. And so I have to be real
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: careful when I spray the soybeans close to those fruit
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: trees that my wind direction is appropriate. And the other
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: thing mark that I never do is I never use
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: a two four D based product close to the fruit trees,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: or you will kill the fruit trees because two four
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: D volatilizes really quickly, and those fruit trees will suck
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: that volatilized herbicide gas right into those stillmata in the
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: leaves of the fruit trees and you can get some
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: really quick herbicide damage. So you have to be really
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: careful of doing that. But it it There's not a
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: thing wrong with utilizing your land in a way to
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: where you know, we've got a new fruit tree planting. Um,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: but now we also have planted soybeans between the fruit trees.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: You know, the other thing you can do is plant
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: clover between the fruit trees and you don't have to
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: worry so much about her side application. And you've still
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: maximized your land value by providing food in the way
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: of clover, but also food in the way of the
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: fruit production from the fruit trees. Yeah, yeah, that makes
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Uh. Well, we are running out
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: of time here, um, so I wanna I want to
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: wrap us up, but I want to give you a
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: chance to to get across any one single most important
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: idea maybe that you have in your mind. Um, And
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: I want to pose this to you in an interesting
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: question and see where you take it. Mom, if I
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: gave you a billboard on the side of the highway
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: and said you could put whatever message you wanted on
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: that billboard for hunters to see and for land managers
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: to see. Um, what would that message be that you
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: would want everyone driving by to be reminded of and
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: to keep in mind? You did you you'd have to
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: throw one at the has to makes me think for
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: a minute, and you know, we gotta we gotta close
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: with a thinker and feel free to take your time
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: and um, you know this this could be short and sweet,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: or if you want, this could be a very small,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: font long message on them on the billboard. But um,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: but yeah, is there any one thing that you think
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: that everyone needs to be reminded of or something you're
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: really passionate about that I want to make sure we
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: we convey before we wrap this up. I I always
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: lean to the first question I asked landowners. You know,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: I think that billboard I could see, I could picture
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: it with some deer out in right next to woods,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: or feeding in a food pot or something like that,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: and I think I would have it say what is
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: the number one limiting factor affecting your dear herd food?
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: It's a cover as it shelter, you know. I think
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: we get caught up way too much in I didn't
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: put enough supplement out, or I don't have enough or
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: or I didn't plant the right clover, or I didn't
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: plant the right food plot. I really like to look
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: at um at at the habitat management from the standpoint
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: of here's my property. What is what am I limited
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: on on this property? For my dear to be healthy. Um.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, if if there's one other message I'd
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: like to express to your listeners is um, if you
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: can on your property, look at the year round nutrition,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: you know, and year round nutrition for your dear may
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: not just be food plots. It could be early successional
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: food types, uh, you know, like that you that can
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: be created from either a prescribed fire or from uh
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: from a timber harvest, by creating those forest openings, uh,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: you know, or by providing a really nice edge along
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: a woodline that isn't just a really sharp edge you know,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: has got a lot of native forage for the deer.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: You know, because when those early successional species come into
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: a forest floor, whether it's the vegetative or whether it's
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: the woody brows, you know that there's a lot of
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: nutrition there. And and sometimes I think we have a
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: tendency to miss that because we're so focused on trying
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: to create a food plot or a food source when sometimes,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: you know, God provides us a really good food source
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: right out there. All we have to do is put
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: some sunlight into the woods. Yeah. It's a great point
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: and easy to uh, easy to lose sight of that.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: With this sometimes uh more fancy options, but you don't wanna,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: don't want to miss out on what's already there, Rob.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: This is uh this has been fun, has been really
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: interesting and as I'm planning out my two thousand twenty
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: one ideas, this is definitely gonna help me out. For
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: people that want to learn more from you or get
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: ahold of youa to do some work maybe, or or
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: talk about properties. Where can they where can they find
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: all that stuff? How can they get ahold of you? Uh?
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: Then get ahold of me through my website, uh Rob
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: at Hobbury Forestry dot com, h A U B r
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: y forrestry dot com. Um, you know so um And
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: if if for some reason they can't find that, they
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: can always contact me through white Tail Properties dot com
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: and click on the state of Indiana and it will
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: show all the agents. Uh so um that that's the
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: easiest way to get ahold of men, you know. And
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: some of the YouTube videos and things that white Tail
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: Property is done on our land beat episodes. I've had
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of people email me through the through those
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, don't hesitate to shoot me in the
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: email and ask me a question and I'll answer it.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: As soon as I can. I will admit there there
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: there's every now and then I'll go through a really
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: busy time where you know, it might take me a
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: day or two to get it to get an email answered.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: Uh so uh but yeah, I will do my best
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: to get everybody's email answered as soon as I can.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: But that's probably marked the best way to reach me
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: perfect Well. I certainly appreciate rob your wealth of knowledge
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: and uh and I appreciate your help not just now
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: but also the summer helping us pick those perfect trees
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: for our situation. And uh and I just want to
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: thank you for for all the above. I appreciate it. Yeah,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: you're very welcome. Appreciate you're very welcome, and I appreciate
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: you having me on Mark. And it's always a good
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: time to try to help educate people. And keep in mind,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I don't have a pH d or
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: anything like that. A lot of what I've done and
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: and some of my successes have just been through trial
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: and error. So I appreciate you having me on. Hey,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: you're very welcome, and that trial and error that that's
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: the best education you can get. As far as I'm concerned,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: that is true, all right, and that's a rap. Thanks
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: for tuning in. I hope you'll learn something from this one.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: We're gonna head into the new year here very soon,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: and um, like I mentioned at the top, it's gonna
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: be a good year, guys. Let's make that happen, and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: we're gonna kick it off with some good episodes year
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: in the coming weeks and months as we build out
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: new ideas, new plans, new goals and projects for for
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: a new season. Because this stuff never ends, right, we
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: we just keep going and going. It's a year run project.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: But this is that point to kind of reset, So uh,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: enjoy a little time off, hopefully, get your mind right,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: and get ready for a big year. Thanks for listening,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.