Latest / The MillionaireByMorning‘s Podcast / Financing Film Production
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- Caitlin: can be incredible how quickly a short film can change the tra tra trajectory of your career. so yes, while you're you can be chasing, I mean a produ like a producer's always chasing an executive producer. we find these great stories and we wanna produce them. That's part of the landscape. As soon as you and I get off the phone, I'm gonna be on with an executive producer to see if we're closing at the budget level that I'm hoping that we're closing So everybody cross your fingers. a short film can change your career trajectory overnight. because somebody might see you and see a talent and give you an opportunity that you never would have gotten. hundred percent never would have gotten if you didn't do it in the first place. Rashad Thirlkill: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Millionaire by Morning Podcast Show. Today's guest knows what it takes to turn a creative idea into a finished production and everything that has to happen in between. Caitlin Delaney is an award-winning film and television producer with more than 20 years of experience and over 60 productions across scripted features, television, movies, documentaries, and digital content. Her credits include Vicious, Adulthood, On the count of three, when I said I do, and hot frosty, among many others. Over the course of her career, Kaylin has worked across virtually every stage of production, from development and financing to budgeting, production management, post-production, delivery, distribution, and international partnerships. She is also the founder of Light It Up, I'm sorry, Up Light Entertainment, where she develops and produces commercially viable projects with. International Potential, an Uplite Academy, an initiative focused on giving the next generation of filmmakers practical industry training and mentorship. Caitlin is a Canadian Screen Award-winning producer who believes great productions come from strong leadership, collaboration, and the careful balance between creative ambition and production reality. Today we're going to go behind the scenes to talk about what a producer actually does. Caitlin, welcome to the show today. Caitlin: Thank you so much. It's so nice to connect with you. Rashad Thirlkill: Awesome. Thank you for being here. You could have been anywhere in the world, but you are here with myself and my listeners, and we are grateful for that. Let's jump right into it. Let's jump into your journey. You spent more than 20 years producing film and television. Can you take us back to the beginning? How did you first find your way into it? Caitlin: So some people stumble into it. I I was pretty intentional about it. when I left high school, I wrote see you in the movies in everybody's yearbooks, which is, you know, a little bit obnoxious, but I I thought maybe I wanted to be a teacher and I went on to university and thought maybe I'd go to teachers college. be a high school teacher, be in drama, a drama teacher. She was Mrs. Smithdale was such an inspiration for me. But I went to university and I dropped out by Christmas. It just like it just wasn't for me. So then I ended up going to college and getting a technical certificate in TV broadcasting. And I'm old. So back then like we were like recording these with these huge cameras on Betamax and we were like editing tape to tape. and it was just kind of I was like okay this is kind of where I feel more relaxed. I really like it. so then you know I I do what a lot of people did back then. I was in Ottawa Ontario Canada and I I I left with my certificate in TV broadcasting. And I thought I have to go to Toronto because I could go to Montreal, which is two hours away, but I don't speak French, so I have to go to Toronto, which is five hours away. And Toronto is kind of like the seat, like back then, and we're talking 2003, was like really the seat of Canadian broadcast. Vancouver and Montreal were movies. Toronto was like the seat of like all broadcast media. So I'm like, okay, I'll go there. And I ended up getting a a job as a receptionist. So I literally started in the very most entry position. And then my career was pretty l linear like linear, but very intentional. So I had a goal of becoming a producer and it took me over a decade to do so. But it was, I went like step by step by step. In in a time when that was this was before Zoom, we would have never had this conversation if if you then. So I I became really manier. After that, I started we started expanding my city. So I moved back to Ottawa. Because I thought that in order for me to have a successful career in media, I had to be in the big five in North America, which was New York, LA, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver. But I missed my family dearly and I moved back to Ottawa. And I started again kind of, you know, as a production assistant this time. Not, I left as a secretary, now I'm a production assistant. And we we shot three movies. By the time 20 years later comes around, we shoot 50 movies a year in Ottawa. And a lot of people don't know that. So it was a whole different like way of thinking. Because before I thought you had to leave to do what you loved. And now I'm in a situation where I'm here doing what I love. And Part of why I I started Up Light Academy is that so much of this is not about talent, it's about access. And I thought that my access had to come from leaving. But what Uplight Academy does is it gives you access to mentorship from your own city with the idea that these new production centers can be grown and we all have access to creation outside of the main production centers. And what has changed, what's different now is we all have iPhones. And literal movies are being shot on iPhones. So it's kind of rethinking. the whole linear broadcast media. I had a lineal rise through linear broadcast media, but now everything's changing. Now you don't need 20 years to climb the ladder. You can become a creator with your iPhone. So what we do is we provide mentorship and teaching, very highly focused mentorship and teaching about not just creative processes, which are extremely important. But it's about the business of production. Because no matter how creative you are, you can't sell your project unless you know something about business. You can't sell your project unless you know something about copyright ownership. Do you own it? Did you create something with your friends? Do you own it? If you don't own it, you can't sell it. Do you have the rights to the music you used? If you don't have the rights, you can't sell it. so we kind of, you know, have created this space where the idea is anyone can. Anyone can be creative. Everyone has stories inside of them. You don't have to leave your city to become a creator. And we're not only going to teach you, but we're going to mentor you in this new journey of creation. And you mentioned that your audience kind of skews kind of to the tire the higher end of listeners, maybe a little bit over 40. And you mentioned that your listeners might be. At a place where at 40, there's a different confidence than you have at 20. And there's more, you know, there might be more risk willingness. So that's kind of something that we do at the academy is we kind of take people who are maybe have a little bit more confidence and want to try something new. And then and then you get that balance of creative and and business. But anyway, that's a long-winded way to tell you where I started and where I got too. Rashad Thirlkill: And where you're at now, that's fine. That's Caitlin: Yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: that's why we asked the questions. Thank you for pointing that out. So most people look at the industry, your industry, and see actors, writers, and directors, but don't necessarily understand the producer's role. How would you explain what a producer actually does? Caitlin: So essentially what a producer does is the we're we're the scale of balance. So a producer, a good producer's role is to balance the creative needs of a script against the financial realities of a budget. And I have never had a project come to me where it's been like this, where it's been balanced. It's always been the script is too big. And the budget's too low, that's that's the most you know likely thing that's going to happen. so what a good producer does is they're able to read the script. understanding who the audience is is an extremely important job of producer because most of the time you're going to be involved in making the script. you're either gonna raise more money for the script. But more often you're going to have to make the script fit with the budget that you actually have. So understanding the audience means that you can have a meaningful creative conversation about how to shoot the script within the realities of your production budget. But you can only do that if you have a clear understanding of what that audience is going to accept. So you need to understand story. If you have this big, you know, 40-car pile-up scene. I mean, that's three days and a million dollars. But, you know, you have to be able to look at the heart of that scene, extract it, what is the heart of the characters, and and can you be able to work with the team to, you know, create something else that's appropriate that you can also shoot within your budget? Second so it's balancing the creative and the budget. It's also protecting the production with all of its rights. So making sure that the production has the rights to the script, has the rights to the music, has the rights to the artwork, also has the rights to you know, with other people's work that you're collaborating with. Do you have appropriate crew contracts? you work with unions to make sure that if you're on a union show, that your project is in compliance with all of the union. You work on safety, you work with lawyers. So it's an incredibly hands-on job. And it is an incredibly creative and a c incredible business-minded way. And the and the thing that connects them is story. And so you and and so that's where you get to be super you might not be writing it, you're not acting in it, you're not directing it, but you're protecting the integrity of the story for your investors and for your audience. And you're making sure that both your investors and your audience are getting this great story that's going to be accepted by the market while making sure everything's protected legally, financially, making sure your people have. safety practices that everybody's in a in a in a war warm, welcoming and safe environment. And you're kind of like the glue that oversees that entire process until it's released. Rashad Thirlkill: Wow, that's that's why they get paid the big bucks, right? So what is an executive producer? What's the difference between a producer and a an executive producer? Caitlin: So a producer is really involved in the physical elements, you know, working with the script writers, the lawyers, casting directors to hire, working with the post houses and such. An executive producer is more on the financing side. So they might raise the capital for the for the They'll raise the budget, they'll raise the money for the project, and then they're not really as hands-on. So they're kind of coming to the front end. They're they're the more financial side. An executive producer is on the financial side with less of the physical production side. But a producer is like hands-in kneading the dough, baking the bread. Rashad Thirlkill: Okay, okay, thank you for that. Thanks. Caitlin: No worries. Rashad Thirlkill: so what's the difference between a a great creative idea and a project that can realistically get financed, produced and distributed? Caitlin: Okay, great question. So a great creative idea and a project that gets financed and produced and released is knowing your audience and writing a script that that audience will show up for, while also making sure that that script will get a return on its investors. Because a great script alone is not enough. If you write a great script and you take it out to people to finance it, if you have no idea who's gonna watch it, nobody's gonna invest in that. So you need to have an idea. Hey, I have this wonderful script. Caitlin, will you give me money for this? Okay, how much money do you need? All right, who's gonna watch it? Women, I don't know, like it's it's a great love story. Women to 18 to 20. A demographic is not a business play. So when you're thinking about a script, you also need to be you you're in development. But but at Uplight Academy, we always, always, always start from distribution. Because your distribution is going to work backwards from development and it's going to inform every single step in the production process. So who is your audience? Who's currently buying these sort of things? How are they showing up? Because it's very different if they're gonna, if they will put bums in seats in theaters, that's a different conversation than if your intended audience only watches on streamers. So all of these conversations are things that you're thinking about in development. Now, what I have to say is that this isn't 100% true of all, like there's always exceptions to the rule. But right now, if we're talk if we're talking about career switchers or we're talking about new people that are starting out, we're thinking about this creative idea, who's going to see it. And when we know who's gonna see it and how they see it, we know how much money they're gonna spend on it. Then we step it back and we can talk to the distributors about, you know, this is you know the audiences, and they can make a plan for it. And when there's a plan for it and we know how much the distributors could make, we bring it right back to the executive producers and we say, hey, we've got this plan for this. We know here are the financial risks, here are the potential rewards. We're going here's our plan, festivals first, then you know, theater premieres, then streaming services, then you know, Avod. Like, so it's really starting at the end and thinking backwards. So to start at the end and thinking backwards, you need to understand the linear production process about all of the things that it's going to take. So that's why it's really important when you know you're a producer, you need to understand the creative. But you also, what we were just talking about, you need to understand what the creative costs so that you can, you know, make sure, because an underfunded project is. you know, really difficult and it doesn't serve the story. But an overfunded project isn't great either because if you can look at that story and and you know you're not overpaying in the production processes and then you don't reap as much as the end, that doesn't serve anybody either. So pardon me. So it's really, you know, everything firstly comes back on story, understanding story. What makes a good story? Who are the stories for? What audiences? What do they like? you know, do what do they need? Do they need fancy special effects? No, they might just need a really interesting actor that, you know, they might, you know, have a crush on or something that'll show up for. And so understanding that story, who's the stories for, who watches those stories is going to inform so much about your development. And your distribution and your distribution is going to inform back to your development, but nothing happens in this business. You will not have a great success unless you have a great story. So that's so understanding great story is a skill that can be not completely learned, but can be heightened. And you know. How to understand why great stories did well in the marketplace is a skill that can be adapted and learned and kind of taken back. So we look at other people's successes, we can break them down. And this is what we do at Uplite. We can break those things down. We can understand what made the story great, balance it against the production budget, how did it do? and then kind of like we can learn from that and we can apply it to your own stories. We also, we also do story coaching. You know, we will one thing that I've like learned about writers is that most of the time they have a really interesting idea. And most of the time they're not able to articulate it because the story's so personal and there's so many things going on in their head. So when I work with a a new creative who wants to produce their own story or something. We spend like an hour. you need, you need a log line. You need a really tight log line, like three to five paragraphs that you can, you know, conversationally pitch when you're, you know, talking to people. But it takes a while to get that really tight log line because so much is happening inside your head. And to get it from here and out your mouth into like a really interesting way of conveying your story, it takes work. And there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But we can also teach you like how to. break down the elements of your story, how to put it lineally, and then how to pull those parts out that are the most interesting. So that when you go to have conversations, you have the best chance of, you know, that person understanding your story and want to, you know, take it to the next level. We've been successful with that over and over and over again. But again, that comes back to story. Everything in this business is story. Rashad Thirlkill: Wow, interesting. So Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Rashad Thirlkill: if there's a new or a young independent filmmaker out there, who, first let me ask, where and from who do they seek funding for their project? Caitlin: So there are a lot of regional grants. So I would I would encourage you to check in with your e many of your regions and certainly all of your states have film commissioners and they will have websites. And if they don't have their own, you know, startup funding grants or competitions, they are going to be able to link you with people that do. now. I don't think you should wait for that. I think that you should be creating even while you're waiting for financing. Because here's something that's really important. It's not about return on investment right away. Let's talk about short films. You can be raising financing. A short film is just as powerful as your first paid feature because your short film is going to do very many different things for you if you're intentional. First of all, it's going to get you out there. It's going to get you looking for people in your environment. It's going to get you networking. Hey, can somebody come and work on my short film this weekend? Number two, it's going to be your calling card. And when I look for when I look at new like let's take directors, I have hired new directors on their first million dollar feature film. I have never, ever, ever hired a director that didn't have some short films because we're looking at we're not looking at the at your budget. We're not looking at whatever. we're not looking at the the accolades of the cast that you can get. We're looking at can you tell a cohesive story? Is it compelling? Is it complete? Is it dynamic? Did you work well with a cinematographer? If you're a cinematographer, you should be creating a short film because you need to have a reel. Like, can you can you set a tone and follow it? Do do you elicit performances from actors? All of that stuff is a calling card. It's all valuable in your learning. So your short film is your calling card. Number two, It could be a stepping stone if you put it into festivals. It could bring you a little bit of prestige. And what that prestige does is visibility. And then it could also that visibility could lead to networking. And that networking means that, you know, you've got this calling card, somebody's looking at your work, and then, hey, that was a really great short film. What do you have next? And then you have an opportunity to talk about what's next. And it's kind of like a stepping stone into the broader area. All regions have short film festivals. All short films will teach you something. Do not be dismayed by budget because that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for, are you a storyteller? Remember, I keep coming back to it. Everything comes back to story. Can you tell a visual story that's intriguing and interesting to people? It doesn't cost a lot of money to do that. So short films are these stepping stones. So anybody that's listening, don't wait for permission and don't wait for money. Get your friends together and show that you can tell the story. When you think you can, take it out into regional film festivals. Some of them don't have a lot of big entry fees. Sometimes there's film festivals that don't have any entry fees at all. and then now you've got you've got Prestige potentially with winning these short film festivals. You've certainly got a calling card. You've got something to show about your storytelling. And then you've got an opportunity to net for network, and now you're rising. Here's that's it. The second thing is: are you prepared to sell? Because you can shoot a short film for zero dollars and still sell it. And this is where. I think Uplate Academy has a really unique place for these filmmakers. We have we have a a self-led course where it's the business of short film. So you can make a film for zero dollars and you could sell it for however much money. However. Whether you make a film for $0 you make a film for $500 million, there are a few core things. There is some paperwork and there is some legalities that you have to have to be able to sell. So I would encourage you, if you would like to sell, is while you are starting your journey. On making things from from nothing, getting a calling card, a director's reel, a producer's reel, whatever, showing cohesive storytelling, getting prestigious networking. While you're doing that, you're also doing the paperwork that allows you that if you do hit at one big festival, you you can sell it. Because working backwards and trying to get that paperwork for sales is going to be either very expensive or very difficult. we teach you right away about ownership. Who owns the project? You, if you and three friends, you make a film, who owns it? And that's fine until it's time to sell it. Who gets to make the decision? You know, the music that you're using. If you use a huge K pop song, you can't sell it. Or you have to go back and re edit it. if you use logos in a derogatory way in a way that they're not meant to be you can't sell it. So what it what what it will do is while you're you while you're you know in this new career as you're rising, we're just making sure that you've got that business mindset from day one so that you have the absolute best chance of you know being commercial right away, even while you're learning. So that's kind of what we do. Rashad Thirlkill: Okay, all right. All right. I'm beginning to understand how the movie production business goes. So is there ever is there ever a time where okay, let's say you you put your short film out there, your calling card out there. Are you hoping that investors come knocking or executives come knocking on your door? Are there instances to where someone sees a person, very creative idea, very creative short reel, and want to work with that person as a producer? Or is it always your a pr creative is out there chasing? So you're chasing investors, you're chasing people that want to be in your films and or is do they come knocking sometimes? Caitlin: It's it can be incredible how quickly a short film can change the tra tra trajectory of your career. so yes, while you're you can be chasing, I mean a produ like a producer's always chasing an executive producer. You know, we find these great stories and we wanna produce them. That's part That's part of the landscape. As soon as you and I get off the phone, I'm gonna be on with an executive producer to see if we're closing at the budget level that I'm hoping that we're closing to. So everybody cross your fingers. But a short film can change your career trajectory overnight. because somebody might see you and see a talent and give you an opportunity that you never would have gotten. hundred percent never would have gotten if you didn't do it in the first place. So when people are like, how do I become a producer? It's like go you could you can do things like Uplate Academy, and I think you should, but you also need to be shooting. Right now all all of the cohort, they're all doing their own projects. and you know, Adriana just got tapped to shoot a million dollar feature in Winnipeg. You know, from short films like that, what a jump, right? Like what a jump. Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Caitlin: but you know, short films are just such an important training ground. You're gonna learn from yourself and you're gonna learn from the people around you. we have like in my city. you know, really great camera operators will come and DP on your short film. So they've got like a huge, huge, huge background on camera operating for incredible directors, but they'll come and DP your film because they want they also want to show. They also want to show that they can, you know, take that step up. They also want to show that they have their own composition thoughts, that they, you know, that they understand mood and setting and lighting and working with the director. So Yeah, just I just want people to get it out of their head that just because we do it for no money doesn't mean it's not meaningful. Do it for more money, you can make money. Don't do it, you're not gonna make money. There's there's nothing. Don't do it, nobody's gonna see your work. Do it, it could change your life. Or worst case scenario, you had a really good time telling an interesting story that meant something to you. I mean, that's not a bad way to spend a weekend. Rashad Thirlkill: Right, definitely. That's it's it's kind of funny that you say that because I used to be in the music industry, and so many times you have music producers that think that their art is so exclusive, which it may very well be, but they don't want to put it out there because they're not actually selling it. So now you have a keyboard full of a computer full of this wonderful music. But you won't let it get out there because no one's giving you the price that you want for it. When in reality, if it was floating around here, someone may very well come knocking and give you some money for it. Caitlin: Yeah, and I mean that's a really like that's a conversation that you have to have with yourself. I mean, I have a little bit of if you build it they will come mentality. So, you know, like I think like well nobody knows what's better to, you know, put your music out there for for like for free because you love music and then you know, building an audience around it and then they come back to you, or gatekeeping it, not making any money, but also, you know, you're not following your passion. Rashad Thirlkill: Definitely. I agree. So let me ask you this question, which is a very important question. It's the question next to who would you love to work with? So asking, is there someone that you know off top once you meet them or once you start getting into the project? I can't work with this person. What's what's a sign that you watch for? Caitlin: it is always, always, always in the way that they treat other people. I've had people Sometimes actors, sometimes visiting producers, whatever come in and be sweet as pie. And then you see their true colors as soon as the rudeness comes out, the snappiness comes out, the entitlement comes out. And it's just, you know, you just you just watch a domino of just like the mood on set. changes, people's confidence are shaken because they're not treated, you know, they're not getting reciprocal respect. And it's just like that's that's kind of the most disheartening part of it. I've worked with people who have probably you know gotten to where they they are faster and maybe have not had the experience to back up the position they're in. That's okay because we are you're surrounded by a team and that team will work together to make sure that you know that's gonna but when somebody, you know, alienates themselves by being rude or thinking that they're better than someone, it it just it's it's just so deflating for a team and that's the most frustrating part for me. Rashad Thirlkill: Can you give us maybe a time to where you understood that a a production problem, it first looked disastrous in that particular moment, but ultimately led to a better solution or a more creative solution? Caitlin: Sure. I mean shooting in Ottawa, I definitely have a few because we are just so we have such like violent weather fluctuations. And earlier this year, I was shooting a summer movie and I got three feet of snow. So, you know, we show up and Well, we're ending the next day. We're like, my gosh, we're getting three feet of snow tomorrow. Like, what do we do? And and it was a really difficult thing to happen. but it mean it meant that every single department had to look at the next day and work together. And and really that's what happens, that's what should happen. But sometimes it gets a little bit lax or whatever. But it we had, you know, the director, the director of photography, costumes, like everybody kind of came together and was like, this is a problem. What are the solutions and what is every single person's part in that solution? And then the next day, we're shooting a summer movie again because the director and the DP are willing to work with the art department and to really like what are the shots we're gonna see that's important. And then the location teams come in and it's like, okay, we're gonna narrow in, we're gonna, we're gonna clear this thing for snow and costumes is making sure that you know, because there's gonna be snow all the way off camera. Like, are the actors wearing appropriate clothing? Are they gonna be warm enough? Hair and makeup is, you know, is gonna be a lot of, you know, precipitation in the air. What if it snows? We're gonna be on standby to reset hair and makeup. the grips have built, you know, a cover, snow cover, like and all of a sudden this problem that, you know, three feet of snow, terrifying. Slow down. Look at the scope. What can everybody do to make this happen? And then if you if you were to watch the movie, I can guarantee you would you wouldn't know which scene was three feet of snow. But everybody Rashad Thirlkill: Mm-hmm. Caitlin: has to buy-in. We have a we have a we have a a problem that hits all of us, and everybody, every department needs to be part of the buy-in to making sure that we have a solution. Rashad Thirlkill: Definitely, definitely. And that way it all comes together. So what it sounds like to me is this is not producing is not based on textbook knowledge. It's more hands-on, it's more even with the budget, like you you need to know these things. So does it take years? And if so, I mean, it sounds like you need to have experience. You can't just be a newcomer like you can in business with the textbook, learning experience, but producing, you you have to get your hands dirty. You have to, like you say, need the bread. So how long would you say a person has to be in the industry before they can kind of get it? And how important is mentorship? Caitlin: So the number one metric for success is mentorship. if you have a strong mentor, you can become a producer right away. And sometimes, and sometimes you fall into it and sometimes you find it, and sometimes you have a super rich friend and a and a kid with a great idea, and all of a sudden you're whatever. I was very linear, like I said. So I slowly climbed up and up and up. that has been extremely, extremely, extremely important for me. However, you only need somebody who's a few steps ahead of you to turn around and say, Hey, I've already been there, I've learned that. There are, you know, a lot of things. There are a lot of challenges that each new producer can face, but when we break it down, and we talk about, you know, what the challenges are, what the potential outcomes are, and how you can mitigate them, we can crunch those 10 years down very, very, very quickly. Because what happens is on a movie is you show up to a movie, you've got this group of people, and then you disperse. And then you do another movie and you've got bring this group of people together. And some of them might be on the last movie and some of them might be there, and then you disperse. But if you have a solid mentor. That is there to talk you through story, project viability, budgeting, financing likeliness, when and where, distribution plans, and then talking to you about the production process. you don't have to take the ladder step by step by step because you've always got that somebody a couple steps in front of you turning around. Helping you crunch down that production problem. And and really like you are always gonna have pain points as a producer because you have new stories and new people and new locations. But there are some universal themes that if you have a solid mentor, you don't have to have those similar pain points. We can we can all come together, help each other, crunch down those pain points and really just climb that ladder faster. You're gonna climb it because it's gonna take you time to learn story. It's gonna take you time to get these things, but those failures can be condensed and the the how fast you climb the ladder can be accelerated with mentorship. Rashad Thirlkill: Which anyone out there listening, Uplife Academy offers. So just a quick plug there. So Uplick Entertainment. You are the founder of Uplike Entertainment. What separates Uplick Entertainment from other areas in your industry or other companies such as yours? Caitlin: So what Uplane Entertainment does is we are, we create our own stories. So I, so most of my career has been built on something called service production, where it's not my script and it's not my money. But when they hand it over to me, it it becomes my my script and my money because I'm balancing it and I'm making sure it gets made. But I don't own it. What Uplane Entertainment does is it owns its own IP. Now. That took me a long time to get to because I because I did everything so linear, I thought that there was going to be some sort of I'd get to the precipice of one mountain and then go, my gosh, I'm a creator. But you don't have to. And it took me way too long. So now Uplane Entertainment is a collection of intellectual property that is written and owned by me. And not anybody else. Well, no, I have collaborations with people, but it's just like it's it's things that I I wrote. Things that took me way too long to give myself permission to think that I can do. Creativity does not have a linear path. And that's one thing that I'd love to express on people. I don't care if you're 52 and you've never written before. Nobody has to give you permission. I had to give myself permission and I waited way too long. Or if you need someone, I will sell you right now, hello, you can be a writer. Go write. Don't wait for anybody. If anybody needs that, you can have that for me. Rashad Thirlkill: Thank you. Thank you for that. So Kaylee. Producing involves managing personalities, money, budgets, schedules, contracts, unexpected problems, and enormous pressure, a lot of pressure. How have you learned to stay grounded through dealing with all of that? Caitlin: in my first probably twenty movies, I was An extremely nervous person. I like I said, I was very linear. I I like to be a perfectionist. And I was extremely nervous that I would make the wrong call, I would hire the wrong person, I would miss a deadline, I would go over budget, I would be I I my hands would shake with nervous energy. I didn't sleep. and for me. I had to learn to trust myself. Because I didn't have a a set person that I could go to. Like I said, even to when somebody came in with a service production, I'm working with a new network, a new creative lead or something. I still get anxious, particularly if I have a a a bigger gap. Between the budget and the and the financing than what I'm comfortable with, because we can always balance thing out. That still makes me nervous. and I still lose sleep with anxiety sometimes if I know a weather event is coming. But the only thing that I have to kind of keep me grounded now is that experience. And belief that everything will work out okay because I have that team behind me that shows me time and time and again that it always does. So it's the people that I have on my team and just like trusting them, trusting them to know, trusting them to get things on time, trusting them that if we say we can shoot this script for this budget, everybody's on board to that. And so everything is about the story for the success. And everything to support that story is the people around it. Rashad Thirlkill: Awesome. All about the team. Okay, sounds like great leadership to me. So you've spent your career helping transform ideas on a page into films and television that audiences can actually experience. If you could give the next generation of producers one lesson about building not just a successful production, but a sustainable career, what would it be? Caitlin: Do not do not do two of the things that I did. Do not think that you have to leave your region. And do not think that you need credibility to be creative. We live in a time where we have access to audiences and access to equipment. If you're building out your career, No one is expecting a blockbuster from you. They just want to know if you can tell a good story. Tell a good story, write your own stories, produce your own stories. Do not think you need it to be linear. And do not think you have to pass a certain threshold before you can start working on the next thing. You have this incredible opportunity that I didn't myself think I had. I thought I had to earn it step by step. You don't, you're creative, you have the equipment, do it. That's my advice. Rashad Thirlkill: And the equipment could be as simple as an iPhone, correct? Caitlin: Simple as an iPhone. Yeah. Yep. Rashad Thirlkill: Awesome. Thanks for that advice. Kaylin. Caitlin: Because all we want to know is your story. We're not looking at anything else. Rashad Thirlkill: the story i like how you put that i really like how you i like how you put that you know and this is coming from an award winning producer you know so it's all about story anyone that's out there listening dig into it dig into writing there's a guy named i'm in the marketing so there's a guy that i follow by the name of Gary Vandicher And one of the things he says is that we are all creators now. In this day and age, especially if you're in business, you are a creator. You are basically a producer of your life, of your business. And social media is basically seven television channels that you should be on telling your story. And it goes exactly with what you're saying, Caitlin. So yeah, Caitlin: Yeah, story. Rashad Thirlkill: I definitely like that. Well, I want to thank you for giving us such a valuable look behind the curtain and what it really takes to produce film and television. And for anyone Caitlin: Thank you so much. Rashad Thirlkill: listening who's trying to understand not only the creative side of filmmaking, but the leadership, financing, relationships, and practical decision making required to actually get projects made, there's a lot to take away from this conversation. And also, you can give Caitlin a follow. Caitlin, can you give us your social media channels or website page? Caitlin: Yeah, sure. So it's it's Uplight Academy. It's just up underscore light underscore academy on Instagram, or you can find us at uplight.ca Rashad Thirlkill: Okay, all right, thanks so much. I will definitely be giving you a follow. And to anyone that's out there, continue to make moves, make money, and make meaningful memories. Until next time, we'll see you later. Caitlin: Thank you.