Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Ollie Read | The Christian Reeve Podcast #212

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Ollie Read | The Christian Reeve Podcast #212 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian read
• 0:03
  podcast. Today's guest is a TV producer,
• 0:06
  music, producer, DJ, man of many talents.
• 0:10
  His name is Ali Reed. Welcome to the show.
• 0:11
  How you doing? Yeah, good thank you.
• 0:14
  Thanks for having me. We've well, thank you very much
• 0:17
  for appearing on the show. We actually caught you a very
• 0:19
  interesting time. I feel in your career because
• 0:22
  while you have a career in TV production and we'll get into
• 0:26
  that, you're kind of transitioning now into music.
• 0:30
  Okay, so let's let's start there.
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  Before, we delve into the specifics of your music and your
• 0:34
  TV careers. Let's look at that transition.
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  Why now, what's what's changed DUI?
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  We dump it into that now. Yes, I guess you know, like,
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  like most people in the world. They always have this kind of
• 0:49
  this side, hustle, this interest and that, and that just for me
• 0:52
  happen to be music, but he only really kind of it started.
• 0:58
  Well, I started DJing Yeah, if he is ago when I was at when I
• 1:03
  went to University that kind of like open me up to this world of
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  electronic, music, production, and DJing and then I've been
• 1:15
  musical my whole life. I was one of those kids that
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  kind of got pushed to play, a musical instrument where there
• 1:20
  by their parents and they're much younger and then then end
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  up hating it. What did you play?
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  What was I? So I played piano.
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  From a very early age. I think I started when I was
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  like 4 or like maybe even three. So I so I kind of like yeah I as
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  I grew up my brain developed like I was I just had music
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  there the whole time so I guess that kind of that helps in a lot
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  of things but then yeah trumpet as well.
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  I made that until until much later but then I kind of I kind
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  of stopped for a while. and then it was only when the pandemic
• 2:04
  happened and, you know, you have a lot more free time on your
• 2:08
  hands that I thought, I know what I'm I've always wanted to
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  Why not start trying to compose and getting production, you
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  know, turn those songs that yell at humming to yourself in the
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  shower into something, actual physical and then and then just
• 2:26
  yet timing and everything kind of kind of Yeah.
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  Had passed and from watching online videos and stuff, I
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  finally released my first music, which was self-released, but
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  then from that emerge to get signed with the label and then
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  You know, things are going great and then and then it had a bit
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  of a down period because you know, the day job picked up for
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  that which I love. So that was the TV side of
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  things. And you know doing such
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  interesting things from like shows BBC Netflix channel for
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  you know all these all these great shows that you're able to
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  work on and create but then about a year two years ago, I I
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  thought, okay, I've want to get back into into the music again.
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  You have had a bit of a down period, maybe a year out of it.
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  And then, so I started started to pick that up again.
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  And then now, you've just caught me really at the start of me
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  picking it back up again. My latest release when to the
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  top 10 in the dance, charts and shouldn'ts.
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  Huge. Thank you.
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  Yes. So it's kind of like good good
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  so far, so far so good. I want to continue that success
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  the minute. You know I'm eager.
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  I've tasted it. I'm hungry.
• 4:00
  Absolutely. This light to try and focus on
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  negativity but I like to kind of hit all different areas.
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  You mentioned, there was a bit of a down period and you said
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  that it was about because of your TV work picking up now, was
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  it a situation where you just didn't Have time at all for
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  music or was it just kind of like what we fear that a little
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  bit and then how you're able to kind of push it back to where it
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  needed to be. Mmm.
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  Yeah, so I think a big side of it was time.
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  You know, you'd have, you'd be working.
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  Not, not exactly a 4:51. It would be like, crazy hours
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  and then, so, you either, what I found is, I'd either get home
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  from work. And be so exhausted to the fact
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  that I didn't want to create anything or the small X see me
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  might have like a 11 weekend a way where you actually do have
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  time, you sit down and I just I had no inspiration whatsoever.
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  Like I was I've creatively drained, I guess but I don't I
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  don't really know what happened. What changed, I think, I think
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  it was my brain kind of needed a bit of a Set.
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  You know, there are a lot of things going on in my life, that
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  kind of distracting getting in the way from being able to
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  actually pursue music and then and then so that's I guess why
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  it took a bit of a backseat and I guess it was never intentional
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  but it just does naturally happened and then and then yeah
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  off that certain amount of time has passed.
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  I kind of had like a new spark and you kind of Like I know
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  what, actually, I really want to make this line.
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  Find myself and cooking dinner or in the shower, or even like a
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  lying in bed. Sometimes I'd be like thinking
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  of this tune up like, shit. I need to get up and do that.
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  I know exactly where you're coming from on that.
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  It's so those difficult things and they just hits you and
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  you're like, ah crap. I really need to get this down
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  right now. By now, we're going to see I
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  think I think that was that was the first kind of thing that
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  That kind of spurred me into again, was it?
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  Because because, you know, yeah, you sit down to do it, you're in
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  front of your computer or you pick up a musical instrument and
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  you can never think of anything or do anything in that moment
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  and it was one night. I was literally laying in bed
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  and I thought skirt, I got up from bed, went to my computer,
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  who must have been like early hours of the morning and just
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  like, started making it. And then once I start to that
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  kind of, you know, the Bulgur rolling, Started that, but
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  Journey thing about some way, it isn't it?
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  It's interesting because I've got the same thing as you.
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  I can't like I have to wait until I either feel like I'm in
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  the Sun so douchey to say. But like the zone for it, the
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  mindset for it. Like you just had that feeling
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  like now is the time or you have a really piercing idea like, you
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  know, like I've often use it as a form of therapy to just deal
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  with stuff like, oh, feeling depressed, sit down, write a
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  song, right? Write something.
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  Can you use it somehow? But that's what music is though,
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  isn't it? It's that kind of like that that
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  transfer of emotions and feelings from from yourself and
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  into music. We're not always, I mean
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  generally speaking. Yeah if you look at that the
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  best music created you asked the artists will be like yeah you
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  know hard times that's what you're hearing.
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  But another to be other times it's like, you know, you hear
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  songs. And you know they're not written
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  like that they just kind of and they might even be good but they
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  did they're just not necessarily written about a real event or
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  anything they just you know. I so I suppose it depends it
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  depends on the person's ability, maybe to communicate certain
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  things and it was I supposed to pens on.
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  How yeah, how you voice that message?
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  How you kind of put stuff together?
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  I mean, I don't know. Like I hear something like I'm a
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  big Radiohead fan for example. And yeah, that the song that you
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  just listen to them. The raise another?
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  Yeah. Like I did a like a listen to
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  some like Fake Plastic Trees and I lie.
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  Why such a hot such a heartbreaking song and then is
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  weird because like you read about how the songs created and
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  it turns out it was somewhat of a joke that Not exactly a joke
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  but like the lyrics were supposed to be just nonsensical
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  it supposed to be kind of silly song and then when they went in
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  there and he just did the take he like, broke down afterwards
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  because he put like everything into it and it's like yeah, I
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  think you can't always account for that sometimes like I get
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  this sometimes like music that I wrote when I was in like a dark
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  place, kind of thing is now. Like I don't feel that way
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  anymore. I'm in a bad head space but like
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  whenever I play it, It the one or two things happens either.
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  Like I feel like I'm tapping back into that and there's a,
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  this is a slippery Road or it just feels like distant in a box
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  and it's you know you know you do you play it, you recognize it
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  but it's still detached from you kind of thing.
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  Yeah. Like how do you feel about the
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  music you right? Like how connected to you to it?
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  Are you do is it for you? Just give me a good music or is
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  it like more of a personal thing for you?
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  And why would say, I would say it's about 50/50, I mean, most
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  in fact, 99% of the songs I write and create you know no
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  one's ever going to hear them and I hate them.
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  You know you can spend hours obsessing over and producing a
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  song and then goulburn, right? Yeah, you overdo it and you're
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  kind of just like, you know what, I hate this and then you
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  put it to bed. I say I said this.
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  Now, if you ever become like huge, huge, huge, huge musician,
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  right? Yeah, save all that stuff for
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  your fans and like one day release it as part of like a,
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  you know, be size extra stuff and I bet you any money.
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  There's like a ton of bangers there that you thought was shit.
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  But actually people will think is amazing but you any money I'm
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  going to write that down and then one day in like, 30 years
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  time we're going to make a big but from that the yin I think I
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  think the thing is with The music I'm a is it's it's
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  electronic music. It's not it doesn't have the
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  same energy as as other genres might, you know, like jazz is
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  different from rocks different from how, you know.
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  But one thing I do believe is that all music has, all right?
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  I might not be in a dark place when I write something, but I
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  think that, it's Still conveys an emotion to The Listener.
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  So you know, beer house music or or techno or something, you
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  know. It's going to be making them
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  feel that that energy and want to dance just as Radiohead, for
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  example, won't make it necessarily make you want to
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  dance but it will be, you know, it conveys this emotion in my I
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  mean if I did start like beginning to the tragic dance,
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  isn't it to the dying or maybe a waltz?
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  Yeah, it kind of conveys that emotion.
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  I feel like that's what I always try to do my tracks and that's
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  sort of like the holy grail and my mind is that if I make anyone
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  feel anything, then that's that's job done.
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  How much time have you spent tour performing?
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  Because I know like being a DJ and like doing a gig like as a
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  DJ is a bit of a different experience.
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  Say like I've always been in like rock bands, Melbourne's
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  singing on stage, whatever talk us through, kind of the
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  performance element for you. And what that's like, and how
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  that kind of is enacted, yes, oh yes, of the performance is, it's
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  interesting. Arresting because because DJing
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  always has a bit of a bad rep and in terms of like the music
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  performance kind of community, a lot of people think it is just
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  pressing a button but the thing is that it is is it's okay.
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  Is as someone that plays musical instruments, I would say that
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  it's not necessarily the same sort of pressure that you have
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  and let you know, they won wrote note wrong.
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  Then it can, it can talk up the song but then we're DJ, you
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  don't really have that but I feel like there's there's
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  elements to where you need to kind of transform the the
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  audience's night and sculpt it into something that that you are
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  in charge of, you know, you want them to have a good time.
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  You want to make them feel something and I feel like, yeah,
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  when I be Jaden, The past. I've, you know, the first few
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  gigs that I had, I went to with, okay, I've got this set, I've
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  rehearsed it to a tee but then it would never end, it was sound
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  amazing, but it would never translate on the night because I
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  wasn't reading the room, mr. You kind of, you know, you're
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  playing some songs. They might go together really
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  well, but the audience might then want something even like
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  more energy or they might want to.
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  I'm going to like you know, break up it's been super intense
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  and you can always read the room a bit when I'm up on stage and
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  I'm kind of viewing the crown. I'm kind of seeing how people
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  are dancing. No one is the people that pushed
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  up against the barrier or whatever having like the time of
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  their life. They're normally the best, the
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  people giving you a fist bumps but then you know it once.
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  Once you get rid of that kind of pre-prepared kind of, I mean
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  yeah. You might have some Songs that,
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  you know, go together and you like I am a really good combo.
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  But once you get rid of that set, you can it kind of opens
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  your your world and your possibilities to kind of make
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  everyone's life even better. And so nowadays I kind of I just
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  improvised, you know, I never plan anything I do you play this
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  but we all you're saying there. But I read in the room, it's the
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  only way to approach something like this.
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  I mean I think it does Kind of somewhat.
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  Yeah, I know applies to, you know, a typical performances,
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  which they would like, instruments or whatever.
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  It's the same, it's the same Vibe like you can, you always
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  have a set list and you can mix and chop and change according to
• 15:04
  the room, you know. Like I think a good example of
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  this is like if you're paying them a high-energy place, and
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  everyone's I wants to hear the big tracks and then you're
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  playing like, more acoustic stuff and And chilled, and it's
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  like, very depressing. It's like, you just killing the
• 15:20
  energy in the river. There was like, come on, man.
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  Give me something. Give me something.
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  But I equally what's different with the type of music that you
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  do is, it's like, it's kind of like a journey, isn't it?
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  It's like you're, you're kind of trying to sum up some, what of
• 15:35
  it is prediction, but a lot of it is, is the crowd gives you
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  almost like the instruction manual.
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  They're like, no, we want this. We want this.
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  And it's like, Got a quickly disposed adapt like something
• 15:50
  that's interesting to me is like, okay, so one one area that
• 15:54
  it differs is like if I'm playing a kind of a typical
• 15:57
  band, we can just choose to just play a different song switch up
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  the set list, but you've kind of pre Resort that edited this but
• 16:05
  is to put together. It's like, how do you kind of
• 16:07
  make last-minute changes to kind of adapt to what the audience is
• 16:12
  demanding from you? I will, I will kind of do Just
• 16:17
  know my so you just like he's just born perfect but yeah, it's
• 16:24
  actually I bet he doesn't know but do you don't know?
• 16:29
  But no I'll kind of like so with the dating, I mean, for Penny,
• 16:33
  your listeners that don't but don't know, you have a library
• 16:37
  of songs on ESP that you were then plug into the DJ controller
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  and then From that, you'll be able to then work them and you
• 16:51
  can prepare things and you know, set Q points and so on so that
• 16:57
  you can more manipulate them more.
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  So, you know, press some buttons, it goes to different
• 17:02
  places. It does different things.
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  Question, you could set it kind of like a multitrack system.
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  So you could like, switch to different songs that will blend
• 17:11
  are. Yeah, that kind of stuff.
• 17:13
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 17:15
  You know, you can play But if it's a good big venue, you can
• 17:20
  have four decks at once. So, you are able to kind of
• 17:28
  almost create a song from other songs.
• 17:32
  Yeah. Almost, you know, like that
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  there's been more than a few occasions where I've, you know,
• 17:37
  I've taken one somewhere as a really good beat and I found a
• 17:41
  section in that song where that beat is just playing and I'll
• 17:45
  Loop that beat and then you have another song that might be like
• 17:50
  80s classic or whatever. And then you can kind of almost
• 17:55
  sample that song as you're doing.
• 17:57
  It's your respect. A new song live but that was
• 18:00
  like the extreme example of being able to kind of plan these
• 18:06
  songs and and kind of manipulate the manipulate them and turn
• 18:13
  them into something that you want.
• 18:16
  But then you need to know your USB and and your catalog inside
• 18:21
  out so that when if you lie, I planned this thing and you think
• 18:26
  it's going to be great. It's gonna be sick.
• 18:28
  Everyone's going to love it but then the Bible in the room just
• 18:30
  isn't asking for at that moment you know you kind of need to
• 18:32
  read it then you can be like okay write that song Maybe not
• 18:37
  but I do know this other song which will go really well with
• 18:40
  it. And then so you have flight
• 18:41
  think on your feet kind of would be able to chop and change like
• 18:46
  know. Someone's going to last more
• 18:47
  than three or four minutes so you kind of need to Jump on it,
• 18:54
  I guess I gotta ask we'll go, we'll go negative to positive.
• 18:58
  All right, so we'll bring it back up.
• 19:01
  Where shows ever? Come on, tell me, tell me of
• 19:03
  some fuck up, zebra on your part or someone else where it just
• 19:07
  absolutely bombed. And there was no way of saving
• 19:09
  it. Yeah.
• 19:10
  Okay. Right.
• 19:12
  They won. The one that comes to mind is My
• 19:19
  first ever gig that I had. Okay, well, to be fair.
• 19:23
  You be forgiven on this before we get into this, this is
• 19:25
  forgivable territory. But yeah, got it was so on, so
• 19:29
  on the DJ controller, you've got this button called key anyone,
• 19:34
  there's DJing will know, it's like a big orange button.
• 19:37
  That's right. Next to the play button.
• 19:39
  The, if you press it, it kind of like goes to AQ Point set and
• 19:45
  that's always automatically at the start.
• 19:47
  The song, but it's just like it's right next to the kind of,
• 19:51
  like the mixing channels. And so I'm playing, and it's
• 19:56
  going great. And then I'm like, almost like
• 20:00
  use my hands to kind of you do the mixes and then, and then the
• 20:06
  final like palm of my hand, the bottom of my hand, accidentally
• 20:09
  hits the cue button, on the song that's playing, and it just
• 20:12
  stops everything. And the crowd just like goes
• 20:16
  like, what the fuck was that? Opened.
• 20:18
  And I was just like shit what I do and my ears, my first time
• 20:22
  playing live and I kind of, it's just science.
• 20:26
  It's the most awkward thing and it along like two seconds, okay.
• 20:31
  It felt like an eternity and that was, I still have
• 20:35
  nightmares about it. I get it but I get it happens.
• 20:41
  It happens. All right.
• 20:43
  Switch it up. Best performance ever.
• 20:46
  Best informant, I would say has to be.
• 20:52
  I so I went and did a mock my masters in Falmouth.
• 20:59
  Well, darling. Calm will.
• 21:01
  And if anyone's been to found within called will, they'll know
• 21:04
  that it's kind of a small town, not really much going on and
• 21:10
  there was hardly any Like DJing house techno no nights like that
• 21:19
  and so I got a bit tired of it and so he set up my own event
• 21:24
  and went to this bar club and was like oh yeah come I put my
• 21:30
  my vent here and then we end up doing it and that night was
• 21:34
  although it's not like the biggest venue I've ever played,
• 21:37
  but it is by far the best because it was almost like so
• 21:41
  intimate and special. The It just like you felt just
• 21:46
  on another level. Like there was this almost like
• 21:49
  this booth above the dance floor where the DJ was where I was but
• 21:57
  we allowed it to the audience who kind of like come up mingle
• 22:00
  as well as being on the dance floor and that kind of created
• 22:04
  like this kind of vibe that everyone will just everyone's
• 22:07
  digging you know, everyone does loved it.
• 22:09
  They felt like almost special being up there and then they
• 22:12
  like connected. It with you more because they
• 22:15
  don't seem right next to you. And it just felt really special,
• 22:18
  really good. It was one of those and it was
• 22:21
  The Nightmare. I've had the most compliments of
• 22:24
  of like music and everyone having a great time.
• 22:28
  So I have to say that that was yeah that that top set.
• 22:33
  Awesome, man. What was the kind of what kind
• 22:37
  of comments do you generally receive about?
• 22:39
  You know, performances, I'm going to because I've never
• 22:42
  actually interviewed it a DJ. So This is all kind of new to me
• 22:45
  like as far as learning and such that Wallace was kind of the
• 22:48
  comments that you tend to recede.
• 22:51
  So I would say most of them are kind of people.
• 22:55
  You know you might play a really good song and make something in
• 22:57
  and before like off their tits and might be at the front and
• 23:02
  they're like oh my God, maybe that was so thick and like wanna
• 23:06
  piss bumpy and stuff. That's the most common.
• 23:09
  The second most common would be like wanting to know.
• 23:14
  List because you play you've introduced them to really 6
• 23:16
  ohms. Okay cool.
• 23:17
  I really want to know that. That's a great compliment.
• 23:21
  And then and then yeah sometimes you just be like there
• 23:25
  afterwards and like people would be like, oh my God made that was
• 23:28
  like, just like digging it. You know, it's exactly the same
• 23:32
  as if you, if, if you played guitar on stage and people come
• 23:38
  up to you afterwards that like, bro, that was so sick, kind of
• 23:42
  like just the general code. And stuff like that.
• 23:46
  Yeah, it's good vibes, feel guilty of energy.
• 23:50
  Let's switch up and talk about your career in TV production.
• 23:55
  So you are a TV producer and have worked for the BBC channel
• 23:59
  for Netflix just to name a few. What would you say?
• 24:02
  Have been your kind of most memorable experiences in your TV
• 24:06
  production career? you are so it has been For
• 24:13
  someone who's kind of quite young.
• 24:17
  I feel like I've experienced a lot in a very short time so it
• 24:22
  was partly helped by the pandemic and the production
• 24:30
  company. I was working for map to slim
• 24:33
  down but I kind of I stayed on and I kind of have to do but
• 24:39
  four or five people's jobs. Wow.
• 24:41
  And so This meant that I picked up a shit ton of experience and
• 24:48
  it allowed me to go across a lot of different Productions and I
• 24:52
  got and I got working on the so I was actually in development
• 24:58
  time. And that was, that was my actual
• 25:00
  job. The one that I was being paid
• 25:02
  for, I was in development. So that's where you come up the
• 25:05
  show ideas, and then you turn them from like a basic.
• 25:09
  Oh, would it be cool if we did a show?
• 25:12
  But man eating bread and then you turn that idea into an
• 25:17
  actual structured format that can be made into a show and then
• 25:21
  you sell that to a to a channel such as BBC.
• 25:26
  And I, when I was working in that we had an idea about so
• 25:32
  relief, Kirk Baker, she's on Great, British Bake Off.
• 25:38
  She was moving, House. And she's very likable character
• 25:46
  and and we we got we got in with her umbrella or yeah.
• 25:51
  Okay. Maybe we can make a show about,
• 25:55
  you know, you're kind of you're building a new house and then it
• 25:59
  transformed into okay Rach. It's her planting around Garden
• 26:02
  which this is like, so opposite of what, we've just been talking
• 26:05
  about. It's like so kind of tame but it
• 26:09
  was so nice. Because what I did is I went
• 26:12
  from Um, developing it and then because of the pandemic, I was
• 26:19
  then able to then go and make it and I spent weeks months, just
• 26:26
  kind of hanging out at Billy's house and like, filming her and
• 26:33
  her small team kind of planting this new Garden.
• 26:36
  It was just really nice. Playing a stop for lunch and I
• 26:39
  always bring my packed lunch with me, but I'd always go.
• 26:42
  And pretty that would have made something and be like oh no, no
• 26:46
  no, you have to eat this. I just like, holy shit.
• 26:48
  This is like this like celebrity chef that I'm just kind of just
• 26:53
  been casually in her soup or whatever which was cool, that
• 26:59
  was a really cool experience. Awesome.
• 27:02
  You mentioned in that that, you know, part of what you do is
• 27:05
  pitch shows two different color TV producers as a TV production
• 27:12
  company. Deniz.
• 27:13
  Yeah, I'll walk us through that process of actually pitching a
• 27:17
  TV show and I'm kind of intrigued to know like the good
• 27:21
  and the bad and the ugly side of that because I'm sure you get
• 27:24
  some pretty brutal comments. Yeah.
• 27:27
  Oh my God, it's like sort of like the music industry or like
• 27:32
  acting where you have to be good at being being good at handling
• 27:37
  rejection. Because 99.9%, I'm percent of
• 27:43
  what you come up with even though might be a fantastic idea
• 27:47
  will be rejected and often for no reason at all.
• 27:53
  And then five years later, you'll see exactly the show that
• 27:57
  you've come up with or whatever. And it might not be that they're
• 28:04
  stealing something. But just like, you know, it's
• 28:06
  not just not the right time and the place right moment to get in
• 28:11
  with something. I have had some experiences that
• 28:15
  I can't talk about right, where I'm pretty sure channels have
• 28:20
  been quite cheeky. So let's just say like how do
• 28:24
  you even combat that later? Can you patent an idea?
• 28:28
  I suppose you can't really maybe a concept that.
• 28:30
  Yeah, I think you can but like, you know, so in so in the UK
• 28:36
  we're lucky enough to have quite good copyright laws.
• 28:40
  You know, it's not like America where you have to go to the
• 28:42
  Office and get it filed and everything here.
• 28:46
  As soon as you come up for that, it's yours.
• 28:48
  If it's something creative. But the third, the problem with
• 28:51
  that is that if it's, if someone comes here, if I come up with a
• 28:58
  baking show, but then the channel doesn't want it.
• 29:04
  Then they might then slightly change it to a very, it's almost
• 29:09
  the same, but they change one little format for Point then
• 29:14
  then it's no longer yours and you got to prove it.
• 29:16
  You've got to prove that that they've done stuff and you know
• 29:20
  like these are your customers as well.
• 29:22
  Yeah I often you kind of just grin and bear it and it's not
• 29:26
  worth the fight but they're there have been a few occasions
• 29:29
  where a couple of occasions where it's been a bit of a bit
• 29:33
  of a kick in the balls. But now, I mean, I think in, in
• 29:40
  my experience in TV has been quite Good compared to most
• 29:46
  production companies. So that most based companies
• 29:48
  will have maybe like one or two shows being commissioned each
• 29:56
  year and we got we're a small team but we got maybe like four
• 30:02
  or five maybe even six year and then that steel own need maybe
• 30:08
  like five percent of what you're pitching.
• 30:13
  You know, you might come up with 100 shows a year and you'll
• 30:16
  still be told no to all of them. For some of them, yet, terrible
• 30:23
  ideas but you will never, you'll never pitch.
• 30:26
  Like a terrible idea always be worked through the years but
• 30:31
  it's a bit of a killer industry for if you're if you're not
• 30:35
  thick thick skinned how did you learn to deal with that?
• 30:42
  I guess, I guess you kind of I guess you don't learn you kind
• 30:48
  of just you deal with it, like that, that's the industry.
• 30:51
  It's like, you know, my my experience in in anything
• 30:58
  creative and knowing from other people's experiences is that it
• 31:02
  is it killer Industries. You know, there's so much
• 31:06
  rejection because it's so very kind of subjective you could go
• 31:14
  to one. Person.
• 31:17
  And they might hate an idea. If you go to another person,
• 31:19
  they might love that idea. However, you have to catch them
• 31:22
  at the right moment because they won't be having a really bad day
• 31:25
  or they've just burnt their toast or whatever.
• 31:28
  You know, it could be anything that could influence their
• 31:30
  decisions on these things and so yeah, you can't you kind of
• 31:33
  just, you just just deal with it.
• 31:37
  Like, sometimes it gives does get to the point where you're
• 31:40
  like are my God like what am I? How am I going to crack this?
• 31:45
  I guess I guess that's my thinking is not like focusing
• 31:49
  and dwelling on on the negatives but more like I'm determined to
• 31:54
  get some some idea that's going to crack it.
• 31:57
  Yeah we're going to get some commission.
• 31:59
  We're going to make a really really great show and so I've
• 32:04
  just got to keep them working in till we get that.
• 32:08
  It's the craziest thing you've ever seen or heard happen on a
• 32:11
  production. Gosh, what's the craziest thing?
• 32:16
  Not much, I have to say like it's all, it's all pretty pretty
• 32:20
  well, well oiled. So I work in bacterial TV so
• 32:26
  that's that's basically anything that doesn't involve actors so
• 32:30
  that could be a reality in show a documentary but with that and
• 32:36
  not a lot crazy happen. I mean you do meet some really
• 32:38
  crazy people and get some really crazy scenarios so look like so
• 32:45
  the Past few months. I I was working on a BBC hip-hop
• 32:56
  show will not will not say what it is because I guess fight but
• 32:59
  I would just say this for anyone who's wondering why I like you
• 33:03
  always have to remember that we've conversations like this
• 33:06
  lawyers and lures. And yeah so you know you know
• 33:11
  you know why you so much. I get it.
• 33:14
  I get it. Thank you.
• 33:15
  It's the same reason I never use specific names.
• 33:18
  Anything. Just you keep it.
• 33:19
  Yeah. Easy.
• 33:22
  It's like you might name a brand you like, but other brands are
• 33:25
  available but yeah, like so working on a busy, hip-hop show
• 33:31
  doing the graphics for that and on that we had loads and loads
• 33:37
  of incredible archival footage and accessed some of the, some
• 33:41
  of the pioneers of that genre and kind of having access to
• 33:46
  almost their personal lives. That's insane after that.
• 33:50
  That we are making a crime documentary and I've met and
• 33:57
  spent time with some of the biggest criminals in the UK like
• 34:05
  cocaine kingpins or X cocaine kingpins I should say and like
• 34:13
  that's also insane. What was it like being in the
• 34:16
  room with them? Did you because I mean you're
• 34:17
  there to do a TV show and of course, they have that but They
• 34:21
  must feel different in something in a large way.
• 34:24
  I do feel nervous, scared? Yeah, I mean, you kind of you
• 34:28
  kind of just ye forget about it. I guess you kind of.
• 34:36
  Yeah. Like, going to you like, oh my
• 34:38
  God, this guy. He's like, the biggest cocaine
• 34:44
  dealer and the UK, or whatever. And then and then when you're
• 34:48
  there, it's kind of, you know, you're just doing an interview.
• 34:50
  You or filming something. And you're so kind of wrapped up
• 34:54
  in your job and your role and you might might talk to them,
• 34:57
  just have a little chat, just to kind of like be friendly, not be
• 35:02
  awkward, but you kind of you almost forget.
• 35:06
  Like is there any interest got also gone?
• 35:10
  This one time I ended up getting this guy's business card, okay?
• 35:15
  When he was not going to name any names but he was Hey
• 35:21
  retired. Yeah cocaine Kingpin.
• 35:24
  Who now transitioned to another business?
• 35:26
  But he was at our here's my card, you know, if you have a
• 35:30
  need and they are exactly. Is there any is there any like
• 35:36
  crazy kind of what I meant? It's really crazy.
• 35:40
  Bit strange Quest. Weird requests from real people
• 35:44
  that you've dealt with on the on these sort of reality shows that
• 35:50
  maybe caught you by surprise something like that.
• 35:54
  I would say I would say less of the crazy request.
• 35:58
  More just you do start to challenge your faith in
• 36:03
  humanity. People can turn into, you know,
• 36:06
  you can have, you can have absolute lovely people and
• 36:10
  that's one of the benefits of working TV is you do get some
• 36:13
  meet, all kinds of people from all walks of life and it's
• 36:17
  incredible. And lot these people, what they
• 36:19
  do is incredible, but you also me some people that are quite
• 36:23
  difficult, so there might be presenters.
• 36:30
  The, hmm, why? You know, you might think.
• 36:34
  Oh, that that's it. Line.
• 36:35
  And then they're the kind of people that would want to test
• 36:41
  every hotel room in a city that you're going to stay in to film
• 36:49
  to make sure they've got the best one or okay.
• 36:55
  We sending sending people and matter run around to get like a
• 36:58
  specific type of water, they might.
• 37:01
  Yeah. What gives with that?
• 37:03
  Like, I don't know. If I was ever working in TV,
• 37:06
  like I'd feel awkward it enough, someone bringing me stuff
• 37:09
  anyway, but like it's not like when I hear stuff like that, I'm
• 37:12
  not. Come on like it's crazy, it's
• 37:15
  actually insane. I mean I've I have Experience.
• 37:20
  Some people that are really down to earth.
• 37:22
  Yeah. And they're, and they're
• 37:23
  normally like people that you wouldn't really expect.
• 37:26
  So like, normally the really big ones or the more down-to-earth
• 37:32
  people. Yeah.
• 37:34
  Which is, which is strange, but then I'd say it's almost like a
• 37:38
  prima, donna effect. It's sort of like the middle ish
• 37:43
  celebrities that I've found to be the most difficult with
• 37:49
  Eating with what's the most outrageous demand?
• 37:53
  That you've been given where you were just like no, this is
• 37:55
  ridiculous. Gosh, I'm not sure.
• 38:00
  I'm not sure I can talk about it.
• 38:01
  I'm sorry. But there any ads, were there
• 38:06
  any? You had to maybe like, Turned
• 38:07
  down for some reason, but also was that.
• 38:10
  Was there any request you had to turn down?
• 38:12
  Maybe, for whatever reason High yellows of them?
• 38:15
  I mean it might be. It might be that they are
• 38:18
  something and then you just can't just can't do.
• 38:21
  It might be that they most the time it's contract.
• 38:27
  It's and they ask the stupid amounts of money.
• 38:31
  Trusting there was a particular YouTube influence of person that
• 38:40
  I would say is big on YouTube but not, it hasn't had like TV
• 38:45
  time and they were asking for more money than you would expect
• 38:49
  by go Hollywood a-lister to ask for to be on the show and you're
• 38:54
  just like, absolutely not. You know, you kinda, you get
• 38:59
  these, you have these conversations, you don't know,
• 39:01
  when to say are you being serious?
• 39:03
  Like they actually joking with me on this one in that
• 39:08
  particular instance, where you were able to come to an
• 39:09
  agreement, or did they just kind of go on?
• 39:11
  It's not, it's not enough. No, no.
• 39:14
  We we kind of, we left it on that one but we, you know, gets
• 39:21
  the point where you have so much time on your hands and you can
• 39:25
  keep from forking out. A tall fair.
• 39:28
  This is what drives me nuts man. Like yeah because I know for me
• 39:32
  like I'm I'm a struggling actor, voice actor.
• 39:35
  I do a lot of different things. And now what I would do for some
• 39:39
  TV time to like promote my said, you know me, like you got to
• 39:42
  look at the bigger picture, sometimes like that TV time is
• 39:46
  so much more worth more valuable than the flat for you going to
• 39:49
  get paid to be on the show. Like, you know, I mean it's and
• 39:53
  when you put it in that perspective, that your time is
• 39:55
  valuable, don't get me wrong. But like TV time versus YouTube
• 39:59
  time, like I still think TV time Racing's.
• 40:02
  Yeah. Internationally.
• 40:05
  You know I mean just so frustrating.
• 40:07
  I mean you mean you're always having to do no work for it as
• 40:11
  well, another time a lot of people, you know, they obviously
• 40:14
  they have to work with but there's no like preparations.
• 40:17
  You got an entire production crew, sorting everything else
• 40:20
  out. So if you're like doing a
• 40:22
  YouTube show where you can like going to set everything up and
• 40:25
  you're kind of in charge and more responsible thing, Things
• 40:28
  as opposed to being on a TV show, where 99% of it's done for
• 40:32
  you. Then it's almost it's almost
• 40:37
  like nonsensical. Hmm.
• 40:40
  I mean there have been occasions like huge success stories where
• 40:44
  I worked on the show called, I can actually talk about this
• 40:47
  one. Became a rich High School House.
• 40:51
  It's on Channel 5 and essentially you have a rich
• 40:54
  family. That's up to the poor family.
• 40:57
  So they can, the rich family will experience, what?
• 41:00
  It's like to be poor and kind of grow a conscience, and the whole
• 41:04
  family will kind of get a lot of benefits from it.
• 41:08
  And get, you know, get set up of like, almost like businesses and
• 41:13
  like the rich family, almost always ends up helping them at
• 41:17
  school and like, offering them jobs or like helping to fix like
• 41:24
  repair that needs doing in the house.
• 41:27
  But then there's this, there's this one show that just like,
• 41:32
  kind of sticks. My mind of like this is why you
• 41:35
  just like TV is like the best advertising.
• 41:39
  Best investment you can have. This is Rich family went on it.
• 41:42
  And they did like cosmetic features four women.
• 41:52
  And one thing they did as well was like if A woman has had
• 41:58
  cancer and they've lost their hair or breast cancer.
• 42:03
  They've lost their breasts and they can like tattoo on
• 42:09
  eyebrows, right? Nipples things like, you know,
• 42:12
  features that actually help. And in this show, you know, that
• 42:16
  they were genuinely lovely people that this Rich family.
• 42:19
  But overnight from them just being on the show, their
• 42:24
  business received quarter of a million.
• 42:27
  Pounds worth of customers overnight.
• 42:31
  Which is insane. It's like, of course, you, of
• 42:35
  course, you do it. Why wouldn't you?
• 42:39
  Yeah. No, that's, that's exactly.
• 42:40
  The way I look at it, it's like any opportunity to get even just
• 42:46
  a little bit of advertising, you could do so much with it.
• 42:50
  That's the way I look at it. Like right now, I've been
• 42:52
  appearing on a lot of other people shows and the primary
• 42:56
  reason is, is the same thing because it's like, you know, you
• 42:59
  you connect with new people Which is always valuable and you
• 43:02
  also get opportunities to advertise yourself to win.
• 43:05
  People over. You know, it's always a, an
• 43:08
  advertisement of sorts. And I feel like, especially when
• 43:11
  you're on TV, you know, you're able to present yourself and
• 43:14
  show yourself in the right light.
• 43:17
  I will say this, though, I think it does depend on the type of
• 43:20
  show that you appear on like, I've had offers to be, for
• 43:23
  example, one reality TV show, as in like, those kind of shows,
• 43:28
  you know, you produce for like, a TV or something.
• 43:30
  And it's like they just want under there.
• 43:33
  No, no, no, no, never know. There was like similar shows
• 43:38
  where it was like they just they want quick sound bites.
• 43:40
  They want, you know, someone and be like.
• 43:42
  Yeah, this is me. Yeah, party party party like
• 43:44
  they want that kind of person. That's not me.
• 43:46
  I'm a Storyteller talk during that time, you know, and it's
• 43:52
  fine. There's just different types of
• 43:53
  people, but I do think it, makes you appreciate what you get
• 43:59
  involved with. With and how that affects your
• 44:01
  reputation and such. But yeah, one of the comments I
• 44:05
  always got from from my audience and I still to this day get is,
• 44:09
  people say well, yeah, but like, it's exposure, isn't it?
• 44:11
  You know, you gotta look at it, like, it's an opportunity, it's
• 44:14
  always an opportunity and it's is something to think about, you
• 44:20
  know, I do sit there and wonder sometimes, like, should I take
• 44:22
  it? It, maybe you can transition.
• 44:23
  It does it matter? Even if you're there for that
• 44:25
  one episode and you get my mom voted out or something like
• 44:28
  Bang, you're on television. You know, course.
• 44:30
  It matters mean. What's the worst?
• 44:32
  That's going to happen as well? Well I mean obviously if you're
• 44:38
  if you're a dick and your dick on TV, then people are gonna
• 44:42
  come on. You know how TV production
• 44:44
  works. Even if you're lovely, you can
• 44:45
  be made to look like a dick. If Prue like creative editing,
• 44:50
  let's say that you don't do anything to be a dick then you
• 44:54
  won't come across as being a dick.
• 44:57
  Okay. Question.
• 44:59
  Okay. Do you think sometimes when TV
• 45:03
  Productions are edited in a certain way to make someone look
• 45:08
  like a dick? Do you think?
• 45:09
  That's because that person has acted that way towards the crew
• 45:14
  and everybody. And so they're kind of like,
• 45:16
  hmm, revenge or do you think it's as you say, just kind of
• 45:20
  someone just being a dick and the cameras just capture what
• 45:22
  they capture and the editors kind of go?
• 45:24
  Okay, well let's accentuate this.
• 45:26
  I'd say, I'd say, yeah, so, there's different different
• 45:29
  scenarios where to happen. Yeah, they could be addicted,
• 45:32
  production crew. And then they're almost made out
• 45:38
  to be a bad guy in the picture, but then, you know, they have to
• 45:46
  be a dick on camera always because if there's no being
• 45:50
  them, being a dick on camera than they can't be a dick in the
• 45:52
  show. But then, 999 % of x 0.
• 46:01
  This is happened. The person gets made to look
• 46:07
  nicer than they are. Which is, which is interesting.
• 46:11
  Like, there's been so many times.
• 46:13
  I've been like this, this absolute dip.
• 46:16
  Like can't we just make them out to be an absolute like, T it on
• 46:22
  TV, but you always don't want not always, but 99% of the time
• 46:29
  you don't, because you're not there to ruin someone's life.
• 46:34
  No, of course not. You know.
• 46:36
  Exactly. So, like if they're on a reality
• 46:39
  show, So like love Island, which I've never worked on, but I know
• 46:42
  on some of these shows that they do in edit in a certain way that
• 46:49
  they have characters. You know, you need unique,
• 46:51
  goodies and baddies you need funny people.
• 46:54
  You need like stupid people and so it is add some certain way to
• 46:59
  do that, but otherwise, if it's just like show, like Rich out
• 47:04
  Poor House. Do you not going to make me look
• 47:07
  like a dick because they're real.
• 47:09
  People in their real lives outside of TV, you know, you
• 47:14
  you're going to want them to kind of their lives.
• 47:18
  Not to be negatively affected after the show because it could
• 47:21
  come back to bite you. You know, you had any instances
• 47:24
  like that word, someone on a show that you produced was
• 47:27
  affected negatively and how did you your team kind of manage
• 47:32
  that thereafter we had? We've never had it where they've
• 47:37
  been Negatively affected in terms of like, they've been made
• 47:42
  out to look like a dick or anything.
• 47:44
  But we had, we had one person on a show that they they didn't
• 47:52
  like mean that they look fine, but they didn't then want
• 47:57
  something to be to be shown or be portrayed.
• 48:01
  And they then were like threatening lawsuits and they
• 48:08
  didn't really have anything. Any legs to stand them?
• 48:11
  Because they've signed of the contracts everything.
• 48:14
  But in the end like the lawyers were like we can do.
• 48:18
  This is fine. But then in the end we kind of
• 48:21
  ended up not not showing it anyway because you let you if
• 48:26
  you ended up showing that, you know, I would feel like an
• 48:29
  asshole and I don't want to be an asshole.
• 48:32
  Yeah, at the end of the day, I want the people that I work with
• 48:36
  and I film with to like me, I don't Wanna have this reputation
• 48:41
  of of you know, upsetting people and being being bad.
• 48:47
  I don't want to be the bad guy so the end of the day you know
• 48:50
  you just kind of you do you be as as good as you can.
• 48:56
  This is begs an interesting question because like a lot of
• 49:00
  TV production companies, kind of do have a bad rap because of
• 49:05
  some of the shows that have been produced under the but then you
• 49:07
  get really genuinely good shows as well.
• 49:11
  So I I guess I guess with that it comes to like say if you meet
• 49:18
  one bad person in the street to you're going to remember that
• 49:21
  bad person and it's going to stick in your mind.
• 49:23
  Everyone else might be lovely. We are only going to remember
• 49:27
  that one bad person and I'd say that's the same with TV shows,
• 49:31
  as well as that, you know, they'll be that one example of
• 49:34
  how this production company and certain production companies are
• 49:38
  worse than others, you know, some of them have reputations of
• 49:44
  being being kind of terrible. What if I got this right as
• 49:50
  well? Like, for example, let's take a
• 49:51
  show like Jeremy Kyle, for example.
• 49:54
  Yeah. Right.
• 49:55
  That show. Like, while it might be sort of
• 49:58
  like funded by because unlike ITV, wasn't it?
• 50:02
  I think not. Yeah, I think, yeah.
• 50:05
  But then there's an independent production company that's
• 50:08
  responsible for. Is that right snow?
• 50:10
  It's never like directly, but I suppose you do have some
• 50:13
  in-house. Options but generally speaking,
• 50:15
  a lot of Productions are external.
• 50:18
  So yeah, yeah, they'll be made by the production company or for
• 50:24
  a channel. Okay.
• 50:26
  So the channel can still be liable.
• 50:28
  Like when you, when you Workshop production company, you have to
• 50:34
  meet certain guidelines standards, that the channel will
• 50:39
  lay out. But they're essentially a
• 50:42
  customer. What would you say of the kind
• 50:43
  of most challenging or difficult regulations or laws that you
• 50:48
  have to sort of contend with, on a regular basis?
• 50:52
  The most difficult one is be blue, is mess this up like, you
• 51:00
  know, thought that something. So, so common to cock up that
• 51:05
  people wise up to it, but it is where you film something in a
• 51:09
  documentary, and And they don't sign a release form and say, you
• 51:13
  can't use any of that footage on many, many occasions.
• 51:21
  I've been sat across from someone who might be responsible
• 51:26
  for, like sorting out all the stuff and then here like Many of
• 51:35
  obscene at ease spouted from the from their mouths.
• 51:38
  As they realized that you can't use this entire scene or this
• 51:43
  character because people making it forgot to make them sign.
• 51:50
  And therein factually. Yes.
• 51:51
  So we did have a lawsuit brought to us from a can't talk about.
• 52:02
  I'm thinking about how I can talk about this brought To Us by
• 52:06
  a gentleman in a South American country that we filmed on one of
• 52:14
  our shows for Netflix, and they said that they didn't know that
• 52:21
  it was being filmed for Netflix and this, that and the other,
• 52:25
  they definitely did. Like we've got them being, like,
• 52:30
  playing to camera like them in a room like the, the cameras
• 52:36
  rolling like, in a room, where the producer is explaining to
• 52:41
  this room of people, what the show is, This is in time.
• 52:47
  This is interesting, though said that that wasn't like a scenario
• 52:52
  where the person was being filmed like, one-on-one was that
• 52:54
  they had part of a background scenario.
• 52:56
  Okay. So this is key.
• 52:58
  I know that in the states, if you're say filming outside, like
• 53:04
  on a beach or something, that's considered fair game, and all
• 53:08
  you have to do is like blur out the people's faces now.
• 53:12
  Obviously, I'm talking about different Nation here.
• 53:14
  How does that apply? Fly in the UK.
• 53:15
  And how come this as you saw it? You mentioned that the man was
• 53:20
  South American. Was it filmed in?
• 53:21
  South America was a was. Yeah, it was.
• 53:24
  Okay. So with that in mind, does that
• 53:27
  law? Not apply?
• 53:28
  Those are different in South America, somehow cannot just
• 53:30
  burn the person's face. Yeah.
• 53:32
  So it gets really complicated. And this is how I kind of lose
• 53:36
  track of it because because it's the lawyers get involved but it
• 53:40
  was basically like you always get Signing consent form because
• 53:47
  right, even if that's not the case in say, Brazil for example,
• 53:53
  but it will be the case in the UK.
• 53:57
  So if it's an international show for Netflix, you need to have
• 54:01
  this kind of blanket cover for you.
• 54:06
  We made a show called inside the world's toughest prisons, which
• 54:09
  is on Netflix. And on that, you would have to
• 54:13
  get Every single person that was on captured on camera from the
• 54:17
  background or not to sign otherwise you'd have to buy
• 54:21
  their faces for a product Christmas.
• 54:26
  The prisoners had to sign a release form.
• 54:27
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:29
  Okay. This makes an interesting
• 54:30
  question though real quick. They're in prison, right?
• 54:34
  Yeah. So they don't have rights.
• 54:37
  Therefore surely now they they do have reduced or have rights.
• 54:41
  Yeah that's that's where that's where the No, I would have
• 54:46
  thought that maybe like the owners at the prison would be
• 54:49
  the ones to get to determine that or something?
• 54:51
  Yeah. No they do the owners of prison,
• 54:55
  you know. They, they have to agree to all
• 54:58
  and everything but the prisoners they're still citizens.
• 55:01
  They're still able to, you know, it's still got human rights.
• 55:06
  Absolutely. So you know obviously it depends
• 55:08
  what country is in how well they're treated but they do
• 55:13
  still have sign. Yeah.
• 55:15
  And if and if they don't we can't use that footage.
• 55:20
  Tristan I got to ask that that time when you're working on that
• 55:25
  what was it like working with those prisoners and hearing
• 55:28
  their stories and such. So the show it's it's pretty
• 55:35
  incredible. You know you have access to
• 55:40
  these people in such a personal manner.
• 55:45
  That is so much different from anything else, you might make
• 55:51
  because these people then present their kind of at
• 55:56
  rock-bottom, right? 90% of the time and and so you
• 56:01
  kind of do able to hear all these stories from people that
• 56:06
  are so personal but also also, it can be quite quite weird and
• 56:15
  quite scary at times because not scary because you feel
• 56:18
  threatened, but because you won't be talking to someone that
• 56:24
  has committed a sexual offense, for example, and you need to
• 56:32
  make them like you You know you can't be like mistreating them
• 56:40
  because they're not going to make a show with you and I will
• 56:43
  be on camera you know you need to be nice to them and also
• 56:47
  you've got you've got to get them to trust you as well and
• 56:52
  then so you can be in some areas where you're talking to people
• 56:55
  that you really don't want to talk to.
• 57:00
  And sometimes you almost forget why they're in there.
• 57:05
  They can be him for like, um, the so they could be him for
• 57:12
  sexual offenses, they could be in for murder and and you're
• 57:19
  you're in there kind of on a very personal level with them,
• 57:25
  which, which that, you know, there's been times where I've
• 57:29
  kind of, at the end of the day being like, wow, I feel really
• 57:32
  uneasy uneasy right now about this kind of situation and it's,
• 57:37
  that's the job you've got to do it in when the production is
• 57:42
  finished, you'll never speak to me again, but it's, it's still
• 57:46
  like in that moment you're like, oh, this is like really
• 57:50
  unnerving feeling it, Unnatural. Would you say your biggest
• 57:56
  takeaways from that experience or lessons that you learned?
• 58:00
  Or God kind of self-control almost kind of.
• 58:07
  So if you are talking to someone that has committed an offense,
• 58:16
  that is quite quite bad, then you almost have to Forget the,
• 58:25
  you know, your personal reasons for things and you kind of have
• 58:29
  to do the job and it's not for everyone, not people who don't
• 58:33
  want to do that for reasons. That is that actually
• 58:36
  understandable. But, you know, you have to kind
• 58:40
  of almost block out your own feelings, own personal wants and
• 58:49
  just Do. Do a job, almost and, and also
• 58:56
  disconnect yourself from from your job, and your personal
• 59:01
  life. You know, you have to separate
• 59:02
  the two because otherwise things can get confusing. during the
• 59:09
  time that you were filming it, like how did you Sort of
• 59:16
  internalized that how how did you kind of manage that I know
• 59:19
  you spoke just then about, you know, learning sort of
• 59:22
  self-control and such, but you're taking this home with you
• 59:25
  each and every night that car. How did you kind of deal with
• 59:27
  that at the time and then sort of the immediate aftermath I
• 59:33
  guess, I guess. Yeah.
• 59:34
  Is it is at the time, you do feel, you have feelings where
• 59:39
  you're like, oh my God, like this is, this is an easy, you
• 59:42
  whisk it like that anxious kind of feeling in your belly, but
• 59:47
  then then afterwards, and because when you're when you're
• 59:51
  filming it, you'll be staying in a hotel or whatever Co there for
• 59:58
  certain amount of time. Then when you come home, You
• 1:00:02
  you're not completely removed from the production, you know,
• 1:00:04
  you could say. Oh yeah, I'll just do that and
• 1:00:07
  then come home and it's completely different world, but
• 1:00:09
  you still got to have the, the aftermath of it, where, if
• 1:00:13
  you're a producer, where you've got to deal with the rest of the
• 1:00:21
  show, the post-production, right?
• 1:00:23
  And so you do come home to it still being on your mind.
• 1:00:29
  At night. But the thing that I would say
• 1:00:33
  is that you just kind of gave you think that's work.
• 1:00:37
  And this is personal life, right?
• 1:00:39
  You really have to distance the two.
• 1:00:41
  It's it's sort of, you know, you hear same from like place and
• 1:00:47
  yeah, like, you know, detectives or whatever where they're like,
• 1:00:53
  you know, you have to distance the two.
• 1:00:54
  You can't ever get involved in them which is also why, you
• 1:00:57
  know, you never hand out any Personal details.
• 1:01:02
  You know, you never can never do that.
• 1:01:04
  Even if someone's really nice and really like them, think you
• 1:01:07
  could be a friend in real life? Absolutely.
• 1:01:09
  No. Because opens that door.
• 1:01:14
  Was there anything that happened during the filming of that
• 1:01:17
  process? Maybe that was shocking for you
• 1:01:20
  off guard. Anything like that that you may
• 1:01:22
  be unprepared for me and you are in a prison to some of that
• 1:01:26
  Productions. It's going to is or as you
• 1:01:28
  mentioned, is already like an uncomfortable experience, but I
• 1:01:31
  imagine, you know, the prisoners are well aware that, you know,
• 1:01:35
  there's cameras on and obviously we know that people act
• 1:01:39
  differently in front of cameras and was it is a prisoner's.
• 1:01:42
  So Some of these people may be unhinged or, you know, there may
• 1:01:47
  be their mental health problems or whatever the case may be.
• 1:01:51
  And as you mentioned it's some of the world's toughest prisons
• 1:01:54
  from a miracle. Yes, o was only thing.
• 1:01:57
  Sort of that happened that was particularly shocking.
• 1:01:59
  And how did your team deal with that?
• 1:02:03
  So there was, there was there been loads of different things.
• 1:02:08
  I mean that I've never felt like unsafe but like, I'm gonna like,
• 1:02:12
  I'm going to be Fade-in in home harmed in some way but there was
• 1:02:19
  there's one scenario where and it's in.
• 1:02:22
  It's in the show, we're in a Colombian prison and I'll
• 1:02:27
  present to his egos in this. So with this to new cellmates,
• 1:02:33
  he's going to be spending the week with and they then Say oh
• 1:02:41
  you have to pay us to be in here and he's like well what if I
• 1:02:45
  don't they're like well then we'll will stab you and everyone
• 1:02:51
  watches this show and says, oh, that's so fake but so setup.
• 1:02:55
  But genuinely that was not like, they just didn't care.
• 1:02:59
  The cameras are there. They were.
• 1:03:00
  So like we're in here. Like so what we're going to be
• 1:03:03
  in here for x amount of years, like we don't care.
• 1:03:06
  There's cameras in here. This is how we do it.
• 1:03:09
  You've got to pay us all. I will stab you.
• 1:03:12
  I think what they kind of make like all of you.
• 1:03:13
  Not just the present, a, like everyone of you kind of think
• 1:03:16
  they kind of forgot the cameras, they're like, you know?
• 1:03:19
  So it is a, in the, in the cell with them, there's a cameraman
• 1:03:24
  there, there's a sound person and there's presenter, but the
• 1:03:30
  saying it to the presenter and they are very care about the
• 1:03:33
  other two, you know. And we ended up, you know, you
• 1:03:36
  didn't you didn't pay in the end, but they were so kind of
• 1:03:40
  Like just unfazed by it. And this is what happens.
• 1:03:45
  So much of the time on this show is where prisoners, you know,
• 1:03:48
  this is their life. You're going into their lives.
• 1:03:50
  This is their territory. Almost, this is how it's done
• 1:03:56
  and that kind of back, that's fantastic for the show and that
• 1:03:59
  gives such like authenticity and and allows you to kind of show
• 1:04:04
  show you viewers, how it really is a lot of the time.
• 1:04:09
  But then, It's so funny because you always get the people that I
• 1:04:12
  can do. That's so fake, that's so set
• 1:04:14
  up. But it's typical TV, but it's
• 1:04:16
  genuinely not which is the crazy part.
• 1:04:21
  How much stuff do you actually tend to fake on a general basis?
• 1:04:25
  None of it. None of it.
• 1:04:26
  Yeah, never illegal in the UK, which mean American shows?
• 1:04:32
  They can fake some stuff. So, like, there's certain shows
• 1:04:36
  there are documentaries, but they actually have paid actors
• 1:04:40
  to go in and pretend to be something in the UK.
• 1:04:42
  It has to be its trading standards.
• 1:04:46
  You can't fake a documentary, you can't fake anything.
• 1:04:51
  So interest be a reality show, new set things up.
• 1:04:54
  So like rich, I was poor house, we set up for day out for there
• 1:04:59
  will be set up so that they go and spend the day in the the
• 1:05:02
  rich person's business and variance that but you can never
• 1:05:07
  fake anything otherwise that is breaking the law.
• 1:05:11
  We did racist, like, what would the law broken be?
• 1:05:16
  I don't know if you know that you can.
• 1:05:20
  Can't, you can't be that it would be.
• 1:05:23
  It's under like trading standards and guidelines.
• 1:05:27
  So that if it ever comes out that you did set something up,
• 1:05:32
  on a UK production, that is faked and it and it does happen.
• 1:05:38
  But if it ever comes out, the something is, is not how it's
• 1:05:46
  how its shown. Then it's then, then you're
• 1:05:50
  breaking. Or you could be sued, the
• 1:05:52
  company could lose a lot of money.
• 1:05:54
  What about if it's a production that's filmed elsewhere but it's
• 1:05:58
  a UK production. Yep, still still, same rules.
• 1:06:03
  Really offensive, UK production company.
• 1:06:07
  Then yet, you can't fake it. You can of course edit in
• 1:06:12
  certain ways like they do that reality shows, but you you don't
• 1:06:20
  get that with production companies that are American, for
• 1:06:24
  example, which is why you do get a lot of this fate stuff.
• 1:06:30
  In reality shows that are maybe filmed over there by those those
• 1:06:37
  companies, but if it's UK company, that's filming in.
• 1:06:42
  So, like, if when we filmed in Colombia, we still have to buy
• 1:06:47
  by our our standards. Yeah.
• 1:06:52
  It's a great, throw by Hart, like, find it out, but I like, I
• 1:06:55
  knew that that happened with certain programs but like,
• 1:06:57
  Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares Yeah, that's like all
• 1:07:02
  fake it broke, my heart broke for those.
• 1:07:06
  For those who don't know, supposedly the fake elements are
• 1:07:10
  anytime you see customers in the store or the restaurant at any
• 1:07:13
  time or paid actors. Also, this what, this one's been
• 1:07:17
  proven as well? Pretty much the whole time that
• 1:07:19
  Gordon Ramsay is around that place he has like one or two
• 1:07:22
  security guards around him, but just basically stopped him from
• 1:07:26
  being, like beaten up by the people because he is going to be
• 1:07:28
  honest. He says some crazy.
• 1:07:29
  See stuff now rageous? Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  How are they not beating him up? That's why because he's got like
• 1:07:35
  some six-foot guy behind him is ready to dare.
• 1:07:39
  Eat them if they said, but that, that blew my mind.
• 1:07:44
  I was like, seriously, like yeah.
• 1:07:47
  And what's nice about that is that the whole, all the people
• 1:07:50
  in the restaurant who are? Yeah, that's real people.
• 1:07:52
  That's up there, real business. Yeah, that they, they are aware
• 1:07:56
  of that. They know that everyone on set
• 1:07:58
  is a paid actor. Like how do they deal with that?
• 1:08:02
  Like it's kind of crazy. I mean these are things that I
• 1:08:06
  don't quite understand or it must be the trader I guess from
• 1:08:11
  like as long as they look like good people at the end of it,
• 1:08:15
  that's been posing as you were saying.
• 1:08:17
  It was not good with that show because like I think it was so
• 1:08:22
  nearly 80% of the store or the restaurants that were on that
• 1:08:25
  show closed down within the first three years or year and a
• 1:08:28
  traded of the show. Is coming out some of them close
• 1:08:30
  before, even their show aired. So how how they convince these
• 1:08:35
  people to be on this show? I have no idea.
• 1:08:37
  I mean, II have a, you said punch, you said advertising
• 1:08:40
  advertising. That's 100.
• 1:08:42
  It's like what we said earlier. Like it always comes down to
• 1:08:46
  that, you know, I hear people sometimes say like or any
• 1:08:49
  advertising is good by advertising even if it's bad, I
• 1:08:51
  disagree with that. But I do think there's a case to
• 1:08:55
  be made for just having are time like in the context of that show
• 1:08:59
  if you About it. It's automatically bad.
• 1:09:02
  You're on a show where you're basically admitting that your
• 1:09:05
  restaurant is terrible and failing and then you know this
• 1:09:10
  world-class Chef comes on and fixes your restaurant.
• 1:09:14
  And many of them obviously did Express successes there after
• 1:09:19
  some actually were able to continue.
• 1:09:21
  So there are certain few good examples but generally speaking
• 1:09:24
  they came off worse than if they'd have ever gone on the
• 1:09:27
  show and it's pretty crazy. I mean, these are, these are
• 1:09:32
  things that I'm like, what, how is this?
• 1:09:35
  How are you able to make this show?
• 1:09:37
  I mean, like, we had so many troubles.
• 1:09:40
  I've had so many experiences but it's so tough trying to convince
• 1:09:43
  some people to do it. And to be on a show where the
• 1:09:49
  outcome is going to be good, like they're going to look like
• 1:09:51
  great people but they don't they're not going to do it.
• 1:09:54
  And then meanwhile they're able to convince this failing
• 1:09:57
  restaurant to be on national TV. Ee with Gordon Ramsay.
• 1:10:01
  Absolutely, slating them how well I got some fan questions
• 1:10:08
  for you. Shout out to film who sent some
• 1:10:10
  of these in. Thank you so much.
• 1:10:12
  These are going different directions.
• 1:10:14
  Still about your TV production work, but let's see where we go.
• 1:10:18
  We've obviously been talking a lot about some of the crazier
• 1:10:21
  experiences, you've had. But what are the craziest TV
• 1:10:24
  stories that you can share with us that have experienced over
• 1:10:27
  your career? Craziest TV stories.
• 1:10:32
  Gosh, I'd say I'd say that the craziest ones are always on the
• 1:10:39
  shows where it's always documentaries where you are,
• 1:10:46
  making it about someone else's life.
• 1:10:48
  So, and if it's crime Doc and that's always fantastic because
• 1:10:53
  then you get to meet like yeah, as we were saying earlier on
• 1:10:56
  Like Cocaine kingpins And like, on inside the world's toughest
• 1:11:03
  prisons, where you're locked in a cell with people that are
• 1:11:06
  completely unfazed by the cameras and threatening to stab
• 1:11:10
  your presenter. And yeah, I think I think a lot
• 1:11:16
  of them can be really good fun though as well.
• 1:11:19
  Like, you know, you can be, you can beam making a show with Like
• 1:11:26
  the Armed Forces, I've made documentary with them before and
• 1:11:32
  and you can have a really good time like you are able to do
• 1:11:36
  things that you shouldn't be allowed to do.
• 1:11:42
  I feel like to say yeah I tried guys.
• 1:11:46
  That's right. Yeah I'm really sorry about that
• 1:11:49
  one but it's that you will be in just to let me go.
• 1:11:54
  Yeah. Who's I was thinking like, I
• 1:11:57
  should probably should not say this though.
• 1:12:00
  Even before coming. I appreciate you.
• 1:12:02
  And thank you. Let's do it a different
• 1:12:04
  direction. So You mentioned that?
• 1:12:07
  Yeah. You sometimes for the most part,
• 1:12:09
  you work for a particular production company.
• 1:12:11
  But I guess what I'd like to know is to the question here is,
• 1:12:15
  are you a freelancer or are you employed work for a specific
• 1:12:18
  station production so I'm going to switch the question a bit.
• 1:12:21
  Is it always the case that people in your field work
• 1:12:26
  exclusively like for production? Or is it more that there's a
• 1:12:30
  kind of a mixture in a blend? I mean, for example, when the
• 1:12:35
  pandemic sort of came And change the industry.
• 1:12:37
  Did you have like an influx maybe of more Freelancers and
• 1:12:41
  self-employed like talk us through like what the general
• 1:12:45
  kind of setup is for people working in production as far as
• 1:12:48
  their kind of status is concerned when it comes to their
• 1:12:52
  how they work. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:54
  So what you find is that most of the industry is freelance, okay.
• 1:13:01
  What people will do is they'll normally start off as a research
• 1:13:06
  or a run Where they production company and that allows them to
• 1:13:12
  get experience. And so that they can, then once
• 1:13:17
  they've got enough experience and they'll be able to go
• 1:13:19
  freelance and it is that way because it's just, it's just the
• 1:13:23
  way, the industry, you know, like you become a cameraman or
• 1:13:29
  whatever and you become freelance.
• 1:13:32
  So then you can jump from job to job to job and ways.
• 1:13:37
  Be experience something new as well.
• 1:13:39
  That's that's what's so great about it.
• 1:13:42
  But then you do also get some. Some people who are in house
• 1:13:49
  like myself, I was predominantly employed as a development
• 1:13:54
  producer. So this was the coming up for
• 1:13:56
  the show, ideas, selling them. But then I was fortunate enough
• 1:14:01
  to be able to have the opportunities to then also work
• 1:14:04
  on Productions. And yeah so I'd say that you
• 1:14:11
  know, you build up enough experience at the start of your
• 1:14:14
  career to then be able to go freelance because when you
• 1:14:19
  freelance you met you sending your CV out to production
• 1:14:22
  companies and you know the producer might get your CV and
• 1:14:25
  be reading it and be like oh this person has only ever worked
• 1:14:31
  on two shows. Why will I ever employ them?
• 1:14:33
  As opposed to the other guy, his work from like Shows.
• 1:14:36
  He's got some great references and so you need to build the up
• 1:14:39
  and get there. And if that means working with
• 1:14:42
  the same production company for a, for a year or whatever across
• 1:14:47
  several shows, then something you got to do.
• 1:14:51
  But yeah, it's predominantly freelance, that's interested.
• 1:14:55
  I would have never thought that, that was the gummy.
• 1:14:57
  It does make sense to some extent.
• 1:14:59
  I mean, I'm an actor. So, I like, I everything I do is
• 1:15:02
  freelance like that in a way, kind of blew my mind.
• 1:15:05
  But also, it made perfect sense because it's like, you know,
• 1:15:08
  every time you're working on a product project, you work on it
• 1:15:11
  for a given amount of time. It ends you move on.
• 1:15:15
  Yeah. Which is why it was.
• 1:15:18
  Yeah. It's brings why for example like
• 1:15:19
  when you see actors and they look pretty like kind of tired
• 1:15:24
  because you know they're doing this promotion is because
• 1:15:27
  they've done like 30 to 50 interviews and a day for a film
• 1:15:32
  that they recorded like a year before.
• 1:15:36
  And since they've since worked on several projects since then
• 1:15:40
  yeah this is always a weird to think about like right now like
• 1:15:42
  I'm having a similar scenario where they'll be things that I
• 1:15:46
  forgot I even did because it's been so long and then they're
• 1:15:50
  like, oh hey, can you promote this for us?
• 1:15:53
  And I'm like, yeah, yeah. What was it again?
• 1:15:57
  That's one thing that when, when my last track came out, I've
• 1:16:02
  made it literally like a year before.
• 1:16:06
  Or and and then the label decided to release it like
• 1:16:10
  completely out of the blue. Well so yeah, did that and then
• 1:16:13
  they asked to like write about some stuff to do with it and I
• 1:16:17
  was just like, what I do like what was that like what was the
• 1:16:23
  process like that? I do.
• 1:16:25
  What was the process in? You're doing that?
• 1:16:27
  I was I don't fucking know the computer on opened up being a I
• 1:16:35
  mean it's yeah that's because they always want the story to
• 1:16:38
  sell. Don't then they want like that.
• 1:16:41
  Oh, yeah, of course, I'm the lyrics behind wherever the
• 1:16:44
  sound, Etc. Like it because it's something
• 1:16:46
  we were talking about earlier. The wave is like an interesting
• 1:16:49
  story there. Yeah, but you've just gotta you
• 1:16:52
  got, you got to dig back in your memory.
• 1:16:55
  This is a fun question. How different is being a TV
• 1:16:58
  producer, from being a music producer?
• 1:17:01
  God, that completely different completely different Industries.
• 1:17:05
  So music producing is its basic about composing but you've also
• 1:17:13
  got the mixing the mastering you got the technical elements with
• 1:17:16
  it TV production. You are making a show but it's
• 1:17:22
  not so much Hands-On. Like you know music producer
• 1:17:27
  might be compared to like a TV editor.
• 1:17:30
  Nothing. You know, you I wouldn't be in
• 1:17:33
  there and I have done it. I have done editing before.
• 1:17:36
  So I first started in media with everything but then you don't
• 1:17:42
  ever like do any of that yourself you're kind of more.
• 1:17:49
  Yeah almost project managing but creatively and like kind of like
• 1:17:55
  juggling lots of things and like ensuring it it goes in a
• 1:17:59
  Direction. Okay, you go for Alma.
• 1:18:02
  You have your answer? Great question.
• 1:18:05
  Thank you. Your one phone, one.
• 1:18:08
  Final question. Just from this section the
• 1:18:11
  again, another fun question. Thanks for this moment is
• 1:18:14
  working as a TV. Producer stressful.
• 1:18:17
  How do you manage stress? And how do you organize your
• 1:18:20
  time in order to be efficient? And also how difficult is it to
• 1:18:24
  juggle? Your professional and personal
• 1:18:26
  and point and private life? So yeah.
• 1:18:29
  The. Yeah.
• 1:18:30
  So we took his free TV Productions dress, my friend,
• 1:18:33
  all right, all right, it separates the stress of TV
• 1:18:35
  production. God like it is, it is stressful,
• 1:18:38
  is a stressful industry, you know.
• 1:18:40
  So you on the one hand in development, we've got tons of
• 1:18:46
  ideas and loads of work to do and you get all this rejection.
• 1:18:50
  So that stress number one, but you then get relieved of that,
• 1:18:55
  when you get these bikes of success, And it's almost like
• 1:19:02
  yeah like if you're an actor and you apply for like a million
• 1:19:05
  rolls and then you end up getting that one that does site,
• 1:19:11
  makes you super happy and just makes it all worthwhile and then
• 1:19:17
  on Productions as well, I'd say that. a lot of the stress in
• 1:19:22
  making factual TV would come from kind of coordinating people
• 1:19:31
  and, you know, making making a show It was like being able to
• 1:19:38
  make it so basically because you it's not like a film set where
• 1:19:44
  everything's like structured to the teen.
• 1:19:46
  It's got to be like done on our otherwise you're fired.
• 1:19:53
  It's like you kind of running around trying to do stuff and
• 1:19:58
  it's always things are changing. Depending on like what you're
• 1:20:02
  shooting, we filming mean I have I have been on sets of my
• 1:20:05
  cooking shows where It's very structured.
• 1:20:08
  But yes, stress of like, running around, trying to be able to
• 1:20:13
  make things happen. And like I guess, I guess the
• 1:20:17
  way to deal with that stress is I mean it's just like any other
• 1:20:23
  work stressed because like I have moments where I'm like
• 1:20:26
  pulling my hair out and like going crazy and being like this
• 1:20:30
  fucking person, like you should not be named as like, How they
• 1:20:36
  worked in this room for like they don't know what the fuck.
• 1:20:40
  They're doing a house, it just makes it like that.
• 1:20:42
  Then you need to vent MNC not to anyone but also just like having
• 1:20:50
  a having other things to do. Like this is why I have my music
• 1:20:53
  as well. Like it's that it's that
• 1:20:55
  release, that relaxation, you kind of you can spend your
• 1:21:00
  entire life doing one, one piece of work.
• 1:21:04
  And that stress builds up and you explode.
• 1:21:08
  Because yeah, you will explode and if you haven't yet, maybe
• 1:21:14
  maybe for something else to do as well.
• 1:21:17
  Like something to take the edge off.
• 1:21:19
  Exactly, get some voices guys. You mentioned about people
• 1:21:24
  getting fired and stuff like that.
• 1:21:26
  Yeah, most unprofessional things you've ever seen on a TV
• 1:21:30
  production so or craziest reasons for someone getting
• 1:21:33
  fired. I mean there's there's all kinds
• 1:21:37
  of crazy crazy ship that the people do.
• 1:21:41
  It's it's always like it's almost always they just that
• 1:21:47
  terrible at their job. Like we had we had this one
• 1:21:50
  person that just like they they were supposed to be sort of in
• 1:21:55
  charge of this of this shoot and the director.
• 1:21:59
  A yeah, just those the producer director.
• 1:22:02
  It was it was a low-budget show. I was Is what not one that I was
• 1:22:06
  on. But I was in the same production
• 1:22:08
  company at the time. So I saw it happen in front of
• 1:22:11
  my eyes. But this person, they're
• 1:22:13
  supposed to be organizing this this, she and they, it was so
• 1:22:17
  disorganized and it when it was going really badly and is
• 1:22:22
  basically, a person's responsibility to do it, but
• 1:22:24
  they got to the point where they had like almost a mental
• 1:22:29
  breakdown in front of the boss, the, the managing director.
• 1:22:35
  Like on the morning before they were supposed to go to the
• 1:22:38
  shoot. So this person like is screaming
• 1:22:43
  being like, this is the worst thing I've ever had to do.
• 1:22:46
  And everyone else is just kind of stand there really awkwardly.
• 1:22:48
  Like, what what do we do? And then this is person and they
• 1:22:52
  just could not comment, really do their job and then they ended
• 1:22:57
  up having a mental breakdown walked out.
• 1:23:00
  And so then the shoot had, no producer-director no PA.
• 1:23:04
  Edie or for it was supposed to happen.
• 1:23:07
  Like half an hour's time and then so like I'm pretty sure
• 1:23:15
  they got like some emergency person and kind of like
• 1:23:19
  last-minute cool to come and dirt.
• 1:23:22
  But that well, that was pretty crazy.
• 1:23:24
  Yeah, and I guess that that might be stress as well.
• 1:23:28
  Maybe this person didn't have a release.
• 1:23:31
  It was intense man. He's very articulate where we go
• 1:23:35
  funny story. Then we just get like a really
• 1:23:37
  light but you can imagine how it must be.
• 1:24:01
  And people, and this is why you need to be able to manage your
• 1:24:05
  time, your stress, effectively. This is what have music as well.
• 1:24:11
  Absolutely going to have it. Let's move it forward.
• 1:24:15
  I found something very interesting about your
• 1:24:17
  background. Was a lot interested about your
• 1:24:19
  background so used to be a cyclist.
• 1:24:24
  Yeah. And unfortunately you were
• 1:24:27
  involved in a traffic accident that forced you to actually
• 1:24:33
  Stop. Sorry, you were Originally a
• 1:24:37
  Italy you were doing one thing. And you transition to cycling.
• 1:24:40
  I can't read my own writing it so it didn't work.
• 1:24:44
  Rowing is that right? Yes.
• 1:24:45
  Yes I was doing wrong. So yeah, you're doing wrong you
• 1:24:49
  transition to cycling because of this accident.
• 1:24:52
  Yeah, walk us through this experience of going through that
• 1:24:56
  accident and how you kind of first of all made that
• 1:25:00
  transition. But also I like to know about
• 1:25:05
  How you kind of got through that struggle and moved through to,
• 1:25:10
  to cycling. Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  So I, so, yeah, I was a rower at school.
• 1:25:19
  I and an intake form. I was said, I 17 16, 17, I did
• 1:25:27
  rowing and I was a two-time National Champion International
• 1:25:32
  gold medalist. And one day and I take up
• 1:25:36
  cycling just to and from rowing training to kind of help with
• 1:25:40
  Fitness and then one day I got hit by a car like just like went
• 1:25:46
  into the back of me. She literally like a few hundred
• 1:25:51
  meters away from my house and it was a hit and run they drove
• 1:25:55
  over and I was like oh my God yeah it was a precious like
• 1:25:59
  shattered. My shoulder to have it.
• 1:26:02
  Reconstructed And it was pretty, it was pretty getting because I
• 1:26:09
  was I was doing wrong, obviously, you need a shoulder
• 1:26:12
  to row, but I was also like, you know, I was so kind of caught up
• 1:26:24
  in this accident that I kind of thought.
• 1:26:28
  You know what, I'm just going to I'm going to get get through
• 1:26:31
  this. And then I'll start writing
• 1:26:34
  again A year later or whenever I can do it, you know, I'd do
• 1:26:40
  Physio and all this that and the other to try and get back to it.
• 1:26:45
  And during that time, I started doing cycling like a nun indoor
• 1:26:50
  trainer to kind of keep Fitness up.
• 1:26:54
  Keep strong Rowan's, like 90% in the legs.
• 1:26:58
  So keeping them strong and then by the time, I could actually
• 1:27:05
  get back onto a row machine, I, you know, I done all this busy,
• 1:27:11
  I shrank my shoulder been through all this work to do it.
• 1:27:14
  I hated it because I wasn't as good as I was and I was like,
• 1:27:19
  felt so Left Behind like I was like all my ex crewmates were
• 1:27:23
  all like you know, going and doing like, Looks like GB stuff,
• 1:27:30
  and I was like, just kind of like stuck a year behind almost
• 1:27:37
  and then so I thought, no, I don't want to do that anymore,
• 1:27:43
  but I don't know. This is the kind of nothing.
• 1:27:45
  So then I thought, oh, actually no, I want to stay fair.
• 1:27:49
  I really enjoyed the cycling. So I started doing that and I am
• 1:27:55
  quite competitive by nature and then So I started doing really
• 1:28:01
  seriously really quickly just because I wanted to be good and
• 1:28:07
  then I transitioned into cycling, get some races and then
• 1:28:11
  after up some years, I'm I got really good and became
• 1:28:18
  professional. Or for a bit and then that ended
• 1:28:25
  because I doing racing in France, professional race.
• 1:28:33
  We were going downhill, 80 kilometers an hour.
• 1:28:36
  I'm where, you know, how like how cyclists are there?
• 1:28:39
  Like they've got like a bit of plastic on their head to kind of
• 1:28:42
  protect you. And I got pushed or nudged into
• 1:28:48
  a curb, this like, Maybe like 20 cm, 30 cm high.
• 1:28:53
  It was a huge curved, like, got why do they have these curves
• 1:28:56
  there? Anyway, front tire.
• 1:28:58
  Hits it. I flipped face plot at 80
• 1:29:01
  kilometers an hour. Oh my God.
• 1:29:03
  Yeah, so hope then I've been waking up.
• 1:29:08
  Like, I won't go into details because it's great but I have a
• 1:29:12
  base Hangar oh yeah. And then so I was like, you know
• 1:29:19
  what? Maybe maybe I've been a day.
• 1:29:23
  Something else. This is my research on you.
• 1:29:31
  I thought like, you know, this dish is to undone of course, is
• 1:29:35
  no. Doubt was tough for you,
• 1:29:37
  imagine. But like, yeah, at the same time
• 1:29:41
  it seems like it's your ticket with like, always, with a sense
• 1:29:43
  of humor, life. Mmm.
• 1:29:45
  Maybe, maybe the universe is telling me something here.
• 1:29:47
  Maybe I should like transition and see house again, but I think
• 1:29:50
  I feel like this is a fascinating aspect to your life
• 1:29:53
  because it's if there's something to be picked up.
• 1:29:55
  From your life. It's the master of reinvention.
• 1:29:58
  It's you've kind of proven that, you know, you when you put your
• 1:30:02
  mind to something you work hard enough for it, you can you can
• 1:30:05
  achieve a lot of different things in your life and you
• 1:30:07
  don't have to just do the one thing.
• 1:30:10
  And this is something I relate to personally, I for me, it's
• 1:30:14
  It's about keeping things. Interesting.
• 1:30:16
  I like doing podcasting acting music content creation,
• 1:30:21
  whatever. Because it's all the processes
• 1:30:23
  are different. They all link on the Creator's
• 1:30:25
  fear that they're all totally different and it's the same for
• 1:30:29
  you. Like sports is, you know, that
• 1:30:32
  takes a crate, a great deal of perseverance motivation,
• 1:30:37
  determination everything. And it seems to me like you've
• 1:30:40
  kind of just taken that and applied that to your career in
• 1:30:42
  music production and sound. Production, I guess, one thing
• 1:30:48
  I'd like to know though is like how did you kind of retain that
• 1:30:51
  motivation because that's that's hard man.
• 1:30:53
  You know, you had, you put all this time and effort into Rowan,
• 1:30:57
  you hit with an axe, there's nothing you can do.
• 1:30:59
  It's just these life, isn't it? And then it happens again.
• 1:31:03
  Talk us through like, how you initially got through and court,
• 1:31:06
  because it's happened twice now, and it's like, how do you
• 1:31:10
  internalize it? How do you kind of move past
• 1:31:12
  that and get to where you are today?
• 1:31:14
  I mean, I'm not gonna lie at the time, there are there is a
• 1:31:18
  period where where you're like, super upset about it.
• 1:31:23
  Children to health does does affect you like, you know, you
• 1:31:26
  become bit depressed. Like I put all this work and
• 1:31:29
  effort into this and you know, when I, when I quit cycling I
• 1:31:34
  was it was a really big big time for me because it was like it
• 1:31:39
  almost defined who I was. But it.
• 1:31:47
  Moving on, from from that moment, where you're finally
• 1:31:50
  able to be like a Ki this, I need to do something else.
• 1:31:55
  I guess I need something to kind of obsess over together.
• 1:32:05
  I got to have this obsessive personality, where I kind of I
• 1:32:10
  need to do something as as well as I can, but I don't want to
• 1:32:15
  Just half-ass anything. I don't want to kind of do music
• 1:32:20
  production, I don't want to kind of be a cyclist or disturb for
• 1:32:25
  fun, like I kind of start doing it.
• 1:32:28
  I'm like, oh I can do that better and I can do that better
• 1:32:32
  and that better than that better and that better then before, I
• 1:32:35
  know, I'm spending my time doing it and kind of trying to be be
• 1:32:41
  the best that I can possibly be with it.
• 1:32:43
  And then moving on, from Want another say, right from the rain
• 1:32:47
  cycling? I guess.
• 1:32:50
  I also, I have less issue with that.
• 1:32:54
  Then you would expect, I guess which would be the surprising
• 1:32:58
  answer because I guess I always want something new in my life
• 1:33:01
  like, oh, I guess that's why I'm in TV because I every job is a
• 1:33:08
  new one. You know, every production is
• 1:33:11
  something new something different woman.
• 1:33:13
  I'm working on a hip-hop doc. The next time with with like
• 1:33:18
  crime documentary the next time with military the next time, in
• 1:33:22
  a prison, whatever you name it. But it's that kind of you bounce
• 1:33:27
  from one thing to another keeping your life interesting.
• 1:33:30
  I want to experience as much shit as possible and be be
• 1:33:36
  really good at. Have you ever had any
• 1:33:39
  Productions that brought you back in the sphere of rowing or
• 1:33:42
  cycling? No, I tried, I tried once to get
• 1:33:52
  to get a show to get documentary with cycling team that I had
• 1:33:59
  some friends. That knee.
• 1:34:02
  These people says friends of friends, where it was basically
• 1:34:05
  this this indoor track cycling team that were independent.
• 1:34:12
  They were just like a group of mates that were really good at
• 1:34:16
  what they did. But they were ending up going to
• 1:34:19
  like cycling World Cups as an independent people set up
• 1:34:23
  against that the jeebies USA's France, whatever.
• 1:34:26
  And then women And I really, really wanted to make this
• 1:34:33
  documentary about them and then going into like when the world
• 1:34:38
  championships and break the world record.
• 1:34:44
  And then just two spells no interest in it.
• 1:34:47
  Like really is. Yeah.
• 1:34:49
  This is the think it sounds sick, right?
• 1:34:51
  Yes. Like a movie idea, right?
• 1:34:54
  I mean come on I know right? But this is that that Stevie for
• 1:34:58
  you like you got it you got a this is what I mean by, right
• 1:35:02
  person, right place, right time. See no, you said it.
• 1:35:05
  Like will know in like a few years from now.
• 1:35:08
  If it gets made would be like, okay, well, where's our money?
• 1:35:11
  Yeah, exactly. Give it to me.
• 1:35:14
  If weakness Lee month. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:35:17
  Yeah, it's this. That's the thing is like that.
• 1:35:20
  There's these like incredible stories that you really want to
• 1:35:23
  tell anybody about. That was probably the closest
• 1:35:27
  that I got to that. And yeah, my experience of
• 1:35:32
  within the cycling World, kind of helped me be able to, to know
• 1:35:37
  about it and make it that kind of stuff.
• 1:35:42
  But yeah, it's pretty cool. Absolutely is man.
• 1:35:46
  Just, I could ask you questions all day, but going to wind it
• 1:35:50
  down. I'll show you a couple of quick
• 1:35:52
  fire questions I ask every guest yet what's the best advice
• 1:35:56
  you've ever received? Best advice I've ever received.
• 1:36:00
  God that is difficult. I would say best advice I've
• 1:36:07
  ever received is Though don't care about how well you do it or
• 1:36:17
  like the the end result compared to other people.
• 1:36:22
  So let's say if I'm going to be cycling or busy production, I
• 1:36:27
  don't care if I'm not, you know, the next number one selling
• 1:36:33
  musician or like the next Chris Hoy or whatever as long as Do
• 1:36:40
  the best that I can. So, yeah.
• 1:36:43
  So don't don't compare yourself to others.
• 1:36:46
  Just as long as you do, the best you possibly can you can never
• 1:36:50
  be disappointed in yourself. So even if you put in a hundred
• 1:36:57
  percent of the effort and you don't make it, you'll still
• 1:37:00
  know. That you tried the hardest, you
• 1:37:03
  kid. To do it and you'll never be,
• 1:37:07
  you'll never have that sort of disappointment, looking back on
• 1:37:11
  it, you know, at the time. Yeah.
• 1:37:14
  You might be disappointed that you don't make a team or
• 1:37:16
  whatever, but looking back on that in 10 years time, you'll be
• 1:37:20
  like, nah, I tried as hard as I possibly could. what do you
• 1:37:25
  think changes as far as like your Because I gotta say like, I
• 1:37:31
  relate to this very deeply. Yeah, it comes to failure and I
• 1:37:35
  accept that it's a big part of, you know, the entertainment
• 1:37:40
  industry, right? And everything we do.
• 1:37:42
  But what do you think it is that changes over the years that
• 1:37:44
  makes you think, you know what? At least I tried and you that
• 1:37:48
  kind of feeling a disappointment that you didn't make it then
• 1:37:52
  dissipates. Why do you think that is?
• 1:37:55
  I'd say I'd say it's sort of as Because you have so much
• 1:38:00
  failure. This is the thing is that
• 1:38:02
  everyone only sees like success, right?
• 1:38:04
  Social media, and all that, everyone only see successes
• 1:38:07
  behind that everyone's trying me.
• 1:38:09
  And one things, you know, I've made a million one songs that
• 1:38:13
  are failing. I hate them, I'm not sound
• 1:38:16
  labels, I'm not doing any of this, then you will see that one
• 1:38:20
  success. But behind that the so much
• 1:38:22
  failure and being able to deal with that failure is so
• 1:38:27
  important. And at the time.
• 1:38:29
  Yeah, it'll be. It'll be fucking horrible.
• 1:38:31
  And you hate it. You hate that kind of feeling
• 1:38:35
  that you failed almost. But as soon as you realize that,
• 1:38:42
  okay, but you tried as hard as you could, then as you as time
• 1:38:47
  goes on, you sucked, like you become more distant because you
• 1:38:51
  do other stuff. You know, other things take
• 1:38:53
  priority in your life, you know. I don't look back on rowing now
• 1:38:58
  think or that one trading session where I didn't do that
• 1:39:04
  hard enough but it was it it's basically like As long as you
• 1:39:09
  look back at it and you don't have that midlife crisis and I
• 1:39:13
  liked what I could have been good enough.
• 1:39:15
  No, he won't get enough because that's just human nature and not
• 1:39:20
  everyone's going to be good at everything.
• 1:39:22
  You know, some people I'm not amazing acting for example and
• 1:39:27
  so I'm never going to be a Hollywood a-lister.
• 1:39:30
  But I know that if I if I try to be as good as I can, something
• 1:39:35
  like a knight can never look back at it and feel Oh, what if?
• 1:39:42
  Okay, well, I do agree with what you're saying.
• 1:39:44
  I want to kick in it but only for one detail.
• 1:39:48
  Yeah. With your life, specifically you
• 1:39:53
  had these two things that you excelled at that one could argue
• 1:39:57
  from sort of a faith perspective, you will rot
• 1:40:00
  because it's not like you failed because I mean, did you really
• 1:40:04
  fail? You had accidents.
• 1:40:06
  Which that's, that's very different.
• 1:40:09
  If we're talking about like, oh, I applied for a while.
• 1:40:11
  When I didn't get it, you can argue all.
• 1:40:13
  Maybe I didn't prepare well enough.
• 1:40:16
  Maybe I didn't, I don't know. Have enough trained.
• 1:40:20
  Whatever you can maybe look. And I know that the other flip
• 1:40:23
  side of that would be like hey maybe they just didn't like you.
• 1:40:25
  Maybe they you know they had a specific guy in my eye and I
• 1:40:29
  totally agree with all that but with your specific story, it's
• 1:40:33
  like this was taken away from you.
• 1:40:37
  Yeah. I mean I'm sure you.
• 1:40:38
  What you, I'm sure you've wondered about that.
• 1:40:40
  Like, ugly. Let's say that those accidents
• 1:40:42
  didn't happen, what might make my life look like.
• 1:40:45
  And that's an intriguing question to then answering.
• 1:40:48
  And then General. I mean that's the thing there is
• 1:40:52
  that I don't I don't look back at these and think I failed why
• 1:40:59
  it was like, yeah, but because because yeah, I mean, I didn't
• 1:41:03
  succeed, I got to that level, I want to do in cycling, I've got
• 1:41:07
  being professional, but I feel like all, but, you know, I
• 1:41:11
  wasn't the best in the world, but I tried my hardest and I
• 1:41:17
  quit cycling because of other circumstances.
• 1:41:20
  Dances, you know, with the accident moved on something
• 1:41:23
  else, but the the thing with the cycling is that why wasn't the
• 1:41:30
  best in the world. That doesn't disappoint me.
• 1:41:35
  You know, I was still really good because I tried as hard as
• 1:41:37
  I can, but then, yeah, these are the only two successes.
• 1:41:41
  There's been other things where I failed, you know, it's been
• 1:41:44
  it's like the endless kind of music that I might make.
• 1:41:50
  Then the show ideas, I come up with that.
• 1:41:52
  Don't make it. But as long as you try really
• 1:41:56
  fucking hard. You won't have that long-lasting
• 1:42:01
  disappointment? No I totally agree.
• 1:42:05
  I guess I'm just picky because it's like I find the whole
• 1:42:07
  concept of something being taken away from someone.
• 1:42:12
  Yeah. It's very fascinating because
• 1:42:14
  it's like obviously the story there is hey this person
• 1:42:18
  perseveres. They go on.
• 1:42:19
  They do great things. Elsewhere in their life and then
• 1:42:22
  you are Testament to that fact. And it's amazing to see, but
• 1:42:25
  it's also the I kind of help but ask them, what if Ian's.
• 1:42:28
  Do they mean I know what it is. Whatever that what does that
• 1:42:31
  mean? You know, you think these are
• 1:42:33
  the time? Yeah.
• 1:42:35
  Like I I see people that are like I might beat them in races
• 1:42:39
  all the time when I was cycling and I see them and they're like
• 1:42:42
  oh they're going to Commonwealth Games or whatever?
• 1:42:44
  And I'm like, damn I could have been me, but then I'm like, You
• 1:42:49
  have this times where you're like, oh, that could be me.
• 1:42:52
  But then at the same time, it's not, you know, you tried as hard
• 1:42:56
  as you can and then you stopped too because you had an accident
• 1:43:00
  that's not in. I didn't I didn't fail.
• 1:43:03
  Well, that's exactly what I meant before as well like it's
• 1:43:06
  that's what differentiates it. Yeah I don't know that it could
• 1:43:10
  ever really be called a failure because it's like and and also
• 1:43:13
  asks I'll add this as well. There's nothing wrong.
• 1:43:17
  Wrong with failure. Failure has like so many
• 1:43:19
  negative connotations attached to it, and it seems like we're
• 1:43:23
  in the same school of thought here that like, yeah, very true.
• 1:43:26
  Failure is never trying. That's, that's the real failure,
• 1:43:31
  you know. But that's basically, I was
• 1:43:32
  trying to save her like the really long with it.
• 1:43:35
  That's like that we got to make this podcast 5 hours, laughs.
• 1:43:41
  I probably love that. Let's switch it up.
• 1:43:50
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:43:54
  Oh God. Okay, similar similar vibe.
• 1:44:01
  biggest life lesson, most important life lesson is that
• 1:44:06
  you have got to have perseverance, you got to keep on
• 1:44:14
  going with stuff, because if you don't, then you are going to
• 1:44:21
  have success, you know, unless you're an apple baby or you're
• 1:44:27
  like strangely weird genetic, Optics mean you're the fastest
• 1:44:32
  man alive, you're not going to have that success overnight and
• 1:44:39
  444 actors. It can be that they've struggled
• 1:44:45
  for years and years and years and all.
• 1:44:47
  It takes that one break and then you're set up for Success
• 1:44:53
  because you can then ride that it's like with, with my cycling.
• 1:44:58
  I was, I tried. Tried and tried and for years I
• 1:45:02
  thought oh maybe I'm just not good enough.
• 1:45:07
  Maybe I'm not going to make it as professional but you have
• 1:45:10
  that perseverance. And and Doc one day, I got
• 1:45:15
  there, I tried hard enough and I got that.
• 1:45:17
  It's the same with music. I had so many songs that had
• 1:45:24
  Center labels or the I would make and just weren't good
• 1:45:28
  enough. Either because I thought so and
• 1:45:31
  then just like throw than Ben or because you do get this
• 1:45:37
  rejection so much. I know of like top artists, they
• 1:45:40
  get rejected, it's like, yeah, like you're saying that the
• 1:45:45
  b-sides, every everyone has this, but all it takes is that
• 1:45:49
  one little success. To them prove to yourself that
• 1:45:53
  you can do it and you need to keep on trying because who knows
• 1:45:56
  you could give up tomorrow but then the next day you would have
• 1:46:01
  come up with that. So or you would have auditioned
• 1:46:04
  for that role and you would have got it.
• 1:46:07
  It's like you've got your whole life to do this shit.
• 1:46:10
  Why? I only spend a tiny proportion
• 1:46:12
  of doing it, and then complain, that you're not successful, you
• 1:46:15
  got to have that perseverance. You got to keep on going with
• 1:46:18
  it. Like lately, every time I do
• 1:46:21
  this show and I could do that, I'll go for a time in my life
• 1:46:25
  right now. We're like everywhere.
• 1:46:27
  I look and what I hear, like I've got this like self-doubt
• 1:46:31
  and stuff about like, whether I'm going to make it myself and
• 1:46:33
  all of that and I kid you not, I do a show.
• 1:46:36
  The people that appear on the show, they're saying exactly
• 1:46:39
  what you are saying. I look on my feed and you know
• 1:46:42
  what's funny about like things like tick-tocking, Instagram is
• 1:46:44
  normally. They're always listening in the
• 1:46:46
  background as we know, I started getting some super Motivational
• 1:46:49
  stuff on my feed like telling me like keep going.
• 1:46:52
  Stop giving up stop complaining. I'm like it's, it feels like a
• 1:46:55
  sign man. But like I feel like that's
• 1:46:57
  that's the new faces listening to you.
• 1:47:01
  Now you're getting the ads that I loved it.
• 1:47:04
  Yeah, that's exactly what it is. But like just we just pretend
• 1:47:07
  its fate but to be fair the podcast element that is fate.
• 1:47:13
  Yeah. Well, I mean, I suppose you
• 1:47:14
  could argue it's what you asked people but you can never really
• 1:47:17
  control what people going to say.
• 1:47:19
  So yeah absolutely wonderful. I mean this is the thing this is
• 1:47:25
  why you keep on hearing because it's true.
• 1:47:28
  Yeah. Yeah no.
• 1:47:29
  It's I mean yeah. Absolutely often often the best
• 1:47:33
  advice is is the most simple. Really.
• 1:47:35
  That's kind of just how it always works.
• 1:47:38
  But I will say it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with
• 1:47:41
  you. Thank you so much.
• 1:47:43
  My wife being on the show and I wish you the very best for your
• 1:47:46
  future projects. Yeah, thank you very much.
• 1:47:48
  And yeah, it's been pretty inset.
• 1:47:51
  Really enjoyed talking to you. Thanks for having me over.
• 1:47:53
  So, and yeah, wish you all the best luck is that they grow much
• 1:47:58
  and to all the listeners of the Christian re podcast, I hope you
• 1:48:00
  enjoyed the episode. As always, let me know what
• 1:48:03
  you'd like to hear on the show next time, who'd like to see on
• 1:48:06
  the show next time. Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:48:08
  You're safe, you're well and I'll see you in the next one.