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Discovering Bitcoin with Paul Keating · Discovering Bitcoin

0:00
You know Bitcoin isn't so much about opting out as it is about
0:03
opting in to responsibility, to understanding, to long term
0:09
thinking. Hard block, Australia's longest
0:11
running Bitcoin exchange exists for people making that choice
0:15
intentionally simple DCA, honest fees, no hype.
0:21
The I see the world through an entirely different lens.
0:26
It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you.
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Hope. Think like we're squandering our
0:33
energy, our life force. So Bitcoin is changing that.
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For me, this coin is like it's healing energy.
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It gives you a kind of of a stand feeling, right?
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Well. Rubber hole goes deep and deep
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and deep. And the immortal words of the
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doors, The time to hesitate us through.
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Mr. Paul Keating, Pura Vida. Pura Vida.
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How you going man? It's going fantastic, good waves
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today. I got sunshine looking at some
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cows but I'm indoors which is weird.
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That is not on brand. That is not on brand, no.
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The cows though, the cows are cool.
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Yeah. Are they edible?
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They're edible. You know, sometimes we throw
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like the coconuts after we drink them at that little Big Pine
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Jungle Co work situation down here.
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Sometimes I throw the coconuts over the wall and I'm like,
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wait, I just a cow? And so far, I don't think you've
2:02
ever hit a cow. This is a good thing.
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But anyways, this is a good thing situation.
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Paco will be pleased. Oh man, you know.
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Somebody there was a tweet actually it was like we need to
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change the aesthetic of Bitcoin and MBK was like cows, distant
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areas, Starlink and I totally agree.
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That is a good aesthetic. Dirt roads.
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Yeah, Yep, dirt roads, red or otherwise.
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Yeah. Man, how did you discover
2:37
Bitcoin? You know what it was, was, well,
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there's a kid when I was surfing in 2014 or something around
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there that was that I was teaching how to surf and
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apparently he found Bitcoin. But yes, completely ignored it.
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And then in 2017 when I was getting pretty close to
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graduating with a master's degree, I just spent my entire
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life in school to begin, there was actually an Etherium flash
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crash. All right.
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So I remember my buddy telling me about that and how it went
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and dip so deep and then how all these people made so much money
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when it came back online because with all their sell orders,
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whatever. And that peaked my interest
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because right when I graduated with my master's degree, I got
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sick. We don't know why I still do
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this day. It was some sort of an
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autoimmune flare up. I was just on the couch for like
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a month, fever for a month, and it was really kind of out of it
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for three months in total. But anyways, I was like, man,
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how am I supposed to make money if I can't even move my body
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anymore? So I became interested in crap,
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though That was the glorious beginning, right?
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It's allergic to it though, I'm not going to lie.
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Do. You hear it?
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And my grandma gave me a little check, and I was like, OK,
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grandma, you know, I understand compound interest.
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My dad taught me that I'm going to put this entire thing into
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Bitcoin, not crypto, and not touch it ever, and just let this
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be my little nest egg in 2017 and see what happens with that.
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It turns out I was a genius, you know, caught a nice bull run,
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kind of nice little like 3-4 X whatever.
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And of course we know what happened after that.
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It went down. And then that's when you start
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to strengthen your conviction and start asking the questions.
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And all of this coincided at a beautiful time for me because I
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was sick. My brain was active, but I had
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time and I had time to think and I had time to learn.
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And it was just this journey down the rabbit hole and I no
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longer had a curriculum of that somebody was giving to me.
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I finally had some time to explore my mind and what I was
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interested in personally without somebody just kind of spoon
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feeding me a curriculum for me to give, you know, homework to a
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professor for them to give me a grade and tell me that I'm
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smart, right? So that's kind of how that
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began. And of course, I'm sure we're
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going to continue talking about the evolution of how I got to
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here today and whatnot. Yeah, well, I mean the notion of
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like being, having the the, I don't know if I use the word
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privilege. That sounds kind of silly, but
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it's kind of cool. I, I guess it is like the, the
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grace maybe is a better word potentially of the space, the to
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explore who you are, what your mind's about, what you actually
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want to do in life, what you value, what you want to create,
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rather than being obliged to get up and do the thing, put on the
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suit or the clothes, whatever it is, walk out the door, drive
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into the traffic, sit in the car, into the office.
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You know. Smile politely.
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Yeah, I studied organizational psychology, which is, Simply
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put, the study the of how to make work not suck.
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And. What I gathered from that was
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that I do not want to work. I was like, holy shit, this
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thing that I'm about to embark on work is going to take up my
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entire life. So wait, you're you're.
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I don't. If I don't happen to get into a
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good job, I'm screwed. Like I don't want to work.
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I'm scared. This is terrifying.
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You're at uni doing your your college doing your, your
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masters, learning about what work is all about.
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You haven't actually entered technically the workforce.
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Yeah, which is retarded to learn about it before, like actually
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doing it. By the way, Yeah.
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But that's the logic of of, of academics, you know, it's.
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Yeah, Anyway, that's a whole other thing.
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But so you're doing, you're taking the curriculum and you're
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thinking, OK, this sounds pretty shitty, to be honest.
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Sounds freaking terrible. Like, you know, I always thought
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when you'd grow up and you just become like the most boring
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person ever. Like, and now I'm here, I'm 32
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now and I, I feel the exact same.
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Like I just want to go surf and play sports with my friends and
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well, and also of course I want to work on something important.
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But I mean, it's crazy how much it doesn't change.
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Like I just that childhood vision of watching adults go and
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do the thing. The traffic, the the boring, the
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boring, the boring, the paperwork the I don't know man
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is. Fill out the spreadsheets, man.
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Fill out the spreadsheets. People need more spreadsheets.
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There's awesome memes that get around where it's like, this is
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what life was like before someone like, or was it?
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It's like this dude drinking out of a like a fresh mountain
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river, stream thing, you know, in this wide open space, sun,
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snow peaked, capped mountains reaching up to the sky.
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And. And the captions like someone
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saw this and decided to invent Microsoft Teams.
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Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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You know, but The thing is when you do that and not to denigrate
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that, like, I mean, let's, there's lots of people listening
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that have done that. I've, I, I did it for a period
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of time. Like I never, I never had to get
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stuck in traffic. Thank goodness.
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I was, I was, you know, and I actually, I never even like
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rushed to peek out. Anyway, my point is that there's
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people that have done that and, and that's OK, that's cool.
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But there is something nagging you in the back of your mind and
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it's almost the like a meme or a trope or, or something like
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that, that, you know, like they make movies out of it.
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The Office and Office Space and all those things.
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I remember actually watching The Office when it first came out,
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the UK version and clocked it immediately as like, that's that
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sounds, that looks stupid. I don't want to ever have to do
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that. And so I spent, you know, a long
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time trying to avoid it. You know which, which I mostly
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have, which is cool, but the point is that people do do that
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and that's fine. But what it does, this is what I
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see anyhow. And I could be just, you know,
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making a blanket statement here, but I find that it a lot of work
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nowadays and in the past, it sucks your enthusiasm and your
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curiosity. And that could be even from like
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a business that you're working, that you've built yourself, but
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you end up working in it more than you work on it.
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And then that just kind of every day is a grind.
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It sucks your enthusiasm. You lose that kind of dreaming
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mentality. And you were saying before,
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like, all you want to do is just play sports and surf.
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And like, an adult might go, oh, well, that's really great.
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But like, we all can't be Peter Pan.
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And it's like, well, no, actually, that's kind of how
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human beings ought to be playing, producing, creating.
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Like, it doesn't have to suck, you know?
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Yeah, I mean, like in my journey, I've definitely just
10:17
put it all off. I never like sold out.
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And that's not because I bought a lot of Bitcoin.
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It's just because, well, the Bitcoin piece has a a major part
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to it. Like if you do have a price
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target of like, what, $10 million for one coin and you
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actually like cement that into your soul.
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Like what does that mean? That'll change the way you see
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the world day-to-day. And you know, what options do
10:42
you have? But like, I definitely held out
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and just was working odd jobs throughout like my whole younger
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20s and mid 20s, whatever, late 20s even till I found more like
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consistent work and then eventually working in the
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Bitcoin space. But yeah, I I think we're
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talking about play. Like play is the highest form of
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being and it's like the end goal.
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And you look at a dog, they're playing all the time.
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And for some reason, I think a lot of people have play as this
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reward instead of letting themselves do that daily.
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And this. Yeah, like we, I mean, it could
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just sounds like I come from like a really privileged place
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saying this, but sometimes I wonder if people just started
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prioritizing play more, maybe you make more friends that lead
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to more opportunities. I mean, that's, that's how it
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happened to me. I mean I meet meet people
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surfing than their friends and now I'm working blah blah blah
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like. I think it's super yeah play.
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You're just like such a better state that's attractive that I
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don't know I. I, I'm pretty certain that play
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like, I mean, you look at like a, a child playing and that's
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how they're learning. That's how they're learning to
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be in the world. Like that's how they're testing
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themselves. They're, they're maybe jump on
12:07
a, on a skateboard or something and they not sure exactly how it
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works, but they kind of just sit on it, lie on it, push it along,
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see what happens. They're playing like there's no
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outcome that's required. It's just, there's no KPI
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targets to hit. It's just let's see if this
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works and, and it's trial and error like this.
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This is, this is how human beings like live.
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And what we do is we, we think we've evolved so much that we
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can kind of begin to control and stranglehold these outcomes, you
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know, and if we input A, then we should expect B.
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But then all of a sudden we don't get B and it's like, well,
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what happened with A? And it's like, like, yeah, OK,
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let's check it quantitatively. Maybe we can come up with some
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sort of insight. But ultimately the best results
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come from qualitative, like play and and creativity from that.
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The curiosity that that goes along with that.
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Like what's around the bend there?
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What if I poke this thing? What happens?
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What if I stand on that, you know?
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Yeah. And that's kind of how it works.
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I think it's super operated. And I mean, like I, I used to
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work in a, in an office where at ATV studio and then we had a
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giant SpongeBob SquarePants pool table in the middle of the
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office. And I never, never used it.
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Like every day just walked past it and was like, one day I
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might, might play with that. But hardly anyone in the office
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used it because there was this unspoken atmosphere of like, you
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got to get your work done, you know?
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So if you were caught at the pool table, even though it was
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there and you were all like, yeah, you guys can use it
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anytime you want, no worries. If you did, you got, like, you
14:00
could see the eye coming from the corner office, you know,
14:03
from your boss. And it's like, what the fuck you
14:07
again? It was such a weird environment,
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man. Yeah.
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I'm kind of glad I never got to see that.
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But yeah, as the, as all those three months in the couch, I
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think I basically emerged like the only thing I'd want to ever
14:26
work on is Bitcoin. And I don't know if that's like
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the millennial in me that really wants like, meaning in our work,
14:35
you know, to have a deeper calling, whatever deeper purpose
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behind it. But yeah, that's where the
14:40
rabbit hole kind of led me, like, oh, this is probably the
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most important thing. This thing for some reason
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speaks to me. And that some reason may very
14:51
well be because it's my entire net worth.
14:55
But yeah, did you get? The beyond the the obviously the
15:01
obvious skin in the game. Did you get attached to like,
15:06
did you get obsessed with this thing?
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Like all of a sudden you, you like you have an aha moment.
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Can you remember the aha moment? Not necessarily when I, yeah,
15:19
had like a huge aha, but there was one of the Aha's was when I
15:25
actually got to meet Bitcoiners in real life.
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And that's when I was like, oh, I'm not crazy.
15:32
Oh, I want more of that. And it is something that I can't
15:37
believe. I kind of went and was just on
15:39
the side watching from afar for so long and not meeting anybody
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in real life. That was a bit, that was the
15:44
biggest aha. I can't really remember my aha.
15:47
Like, oh, there's only a 21,000,000 proof of work.
15:50
Plus the difficulty adjustment. Boom, boom, boom.
15:55
Wasn't really that. It's just the combination of
15:58
everything, I think. What was yours?
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Do you remember yours? I think, I think it was like
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learning, like reading about the difficulty adjustment in the
16:12
Bitcoin standard. I'm pretty sure because I
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remember I went out for lunch with my old man that day and I'd
16:20
just, I'd done a bunch of housework and stuff and, and
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then, yeah, we went out for lunch and that's all I could
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talk about. And, and I didn't understand it
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and I was trying to explain this thing and it was super confusing
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to him. And I have no doubts probably,
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you know, he's gone. Yeah.
16:36
Cool man. That's that sounds sounds like
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you're interested in another thing.
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Good for you. So.
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Did he buy Bitcoin? He has I think he has, yeah.
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I don't know if he's kept it or though he's he's a God bless
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him. He's a little he's a little
16:53
straighty 180. But yeah, shout out to you Dad.
16:58
But yeah, like I think it was the difficulty adjustment just
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going what the fuck? And I'm not any way, shape or
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form that technical as the as the anecdote would imply, but
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just remember thinking that is pretty clever.
17:13
I don't I don't quite understand what what that means.
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Well, like, like I know what that means, but I don't quite
17:19
understand how technically that works.
17:21
But yeah, sounds pretty damn clever.
17:24
I remember. Learning there's this one video,
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I forget exactly the name of the guy on YouTube.
17:29
It was like blue or something like that, I forget and it's it
17:35
explains the shot 256 algorithm. Oh yes.
17:39
Yes, that video is awesome and that.
17:42
That one's a trip. I could actually use watching
17:44
it. Like, it's funny.
17:45
You learn all these things and it's just how then they kind of
17:49
don't stick in my brain, no. It's just from.
17:52
Like it's so hard to remember every angle, every story about
17:56
just demoralizing and being like completely evil or people being
18:01
in control of the money printer abusing the power, or this
18:04
hyperinflation event or that hyperinflation event or how
18:07
these people got rubbed. It's just it all just compounds.
18:10
There's just like you can't Unsee it.
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You look at everything through orange glasses and it's like,
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yeah, this is the future I want to live towards and we'll work
18:21
towards that. Yeah, that's that's the thing,
18:24
man. Like once you see it, you can't
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Unsee it. It's, you know, once a mind is
18:28
stretched to, to fit an idea, a new idea, it's not going back
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and you can either. Sometimes I kind of feel for a
18:38
lot of those people that can sense there's something
18:42
obviously wrong, but they haven't put their finger on it
18:45
yet and they end up taking the black pill.
18:48
Like they just keep offering up problems.
18:50
I mean, Booth, I think was saying this on a recent podcast,
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but Mr. Jeff Booth, I'm not that unfriendly terms with him.
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He's been on the pod. But yeah, let's call him Booth.
19:02
Sorry. But yeah, like he he said in the
19:07
system, if you're if you're viewing it from that, you're
19:11
going to, you know, it's very difficult to to see from without
19:13
that system, all that sort of stuff.
19:15
And and you can get black peeled real easily.
19:17
You can have to have good control of the money printer.
19:19
And these buses just hook up in hotel rooms on like Jekyll
19:23
Island or Bretton Woods or whatever.
19:25
And they and they make these schemes and plans to, you know,
19:29
control the world. And Kissinger has these awful
19:32
quotes about like, it doesn't matter, you know, about
19:36
controlling this, that or the other.
19:37
As long as I've got access to the money printer, I can do
19:40
whatever the fuck I want. That's a paraphrase.
19:42
I don't think he said it exactly like that, but and you can get
19:47
super black pilled and be like, man.
19:50
But as you've kind of found out in and particularly the social
19:54
aspect, the thing that clicked for you I think is, is the cool
19:57
star and elect to pull on that thread a little bit when you
20:00
interact with Bitcoiners in real life.
20:03
That's kind of like an energy that is incomparable to kind of
20:09
any other real situation because I guess maybe early Doors and
20:14
I've, I've compared this before in the past, Like it would be
20:16
kind of like rocking up to the Cavern Club in Liverpool and The
20:19
Beatles are playing and you're surrounded by strangers, but
20:22
you're there to see The Beatles because you sense that they're
20:24
cool and there's something going on here, but you're not sure
20:27
what. And they haven't quite made it
20:29
yet. They haven't done any of their
20:31
cool stuff. That's all ahead of them.
20:32
But there is something here and you kind of coalesce around this
20:38
one idea, you know, and you can kind of trust each other a bit
20:43
more. Like you can have conversations
20:45
with people and agree on 80% of the thing and debate that hits
20:50
off the 20% either side. Yeah, I sometimes I wonder about
20:56
how much we even need to agree about.
20:58
I mean, there is so far with Bitcoin, like a decent amount of
21:03
maybe group think or just alignment.
21:07
At the same time, I wonder, like, can we just have
21:09
completely opposite views on how we should structure humanity?
21:12
But we can get along since we have the same money and we're
21:16
not. Nobody's going to be
21:16
manipulating it. But that's kind of beyond that
21:21
question you just asked me, which is, yeah, like in real
21:25
life, meeting people who are down the same rabbit holes and
21:32
have the same money, like it really changed.
21:35
It's like you just kind of, you can feel it what it is, man.
21:41
You just kind of know. It's hard to describe.
21:47
And it was something I ended up like seeking out more and more.
21:52
I went to all these Bitcoin conferences after I went to that
21:55
first one in El Salvador, which I didn't even go to, by the way.
21:58
I was just like 1-2 broke to buy a ticket and two kind of shy,
22:03
believe it or not, to go to the conference and just is the
22:13
industry I was pursuing before was kind of like the
22:16
entertainment industry. I was doing some modeling work,
22:19
acting commercials type stuff and pursuing that world and I
22:23
couldn't really make deep connections with anybody.
22:29
I think everything was about just like, how can I use you to
22:32
make to prop myself up? Yeah.
22:36
Instead. Of like, how can we work
22:37
together to build a better world?
22:38
Transactional. But yeah, very, it's very
22:41
transactional. Yeah.
22:43
And yeah, I just didn't, I mean that that's definitely not the
22:49
vibe in Bitcoin. We all work together.
22:52
That's that's a a strong energy that you feel in those sorts of
22:57
social status spaces where it's all about your title or it's all
23:04
about. Yeah, I mean, I saw that a lot
23:08
in the wine game. You know, you'd go to these big
23:12
balls and galas and events and shit and everyone was just, you
23:17
know, glad handing and, and slapping each other in the back
23:20
and, and most of the time, no, like, and it's not, it's not
23:25
like, but most of the time most of the people in the room were
23:29
there because of what their grandfather did or what their
23:32
father did, you know, like 30-40 years beforehand or sometimes
23:37
100 years beforehand. And you just sort of sense that
23:44
they were standing on the shoulders of giants, which is
23:47
fine, but that they didn't, that they were there just to kind of
23:51
indulge. And what could they get out of
23:54
you? You know, because I was a
23:55
journalist. So I was like, all right, like,
23:57
you know, you're being nice to them because you want to get the
23:59
story out of them, but you know, they're being nice to you
24:03
because they know that you can help them promote their product
24:07
or whatever. And, and it's and, and, and at
24:11
some point you kind of fool yourself in thinking that you're
24:14
kind of more than colleagues. Like you could be friends with
24:17
these people. And yeah, no, just not the case
24:22
at all. Like when you actually stop and
24:23
think about it, you're like, yeah, this is very transactional
24:26
here. You guys are actually pretty
24:27
shallow. And I think that's a lot to do
24:29
with the money, to be honest. Bitcoin doesn't announce itself.
24:32
It reveals itself not in the moment you buy, but in the
24:35
moment you stop thinking of it as a trade, start sensing it as
24:40
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Use code Discovering Bitcoin all one word for $10 worth of free
25:17
Bitcoin when signing up for a new fully verified account at
25:20
hardblock.com dot AU. Yeah, possibly just in just that
25:27
whole Fiat mindset of just super short term thinking, just how
25:33
can I win today? Yeah, I'm just, I'm, I'm glad
25:38
I'm not pursuing that world full time.
25:40
And then talk about like status too.
25:42
It's, I mean, yeah, from from when you're sitting on the
25:46
sidelines looking into people who have big names in Bitcoin,
25:50
it's kind of intimidating, but I don't know, I met a lot of
25:53
Bitcoiners now, including ones that are more famous and
25:55
everything. And it's like, no, they're just,
25:57
they're totally cool, you know, not weird at all.
26:01
And like you're just kind of hanging out.
26:04
Whereas, yeah, that other world's just like, OK, does this
26:08
guy get good engagement? OK, maybe I'll hang out with him
26:11
like. Yeah, I mean, there's kind of a.
26:15
Weird thing with social media, we're all just like complex
26:19
monkeys playing complex stats games really.
26:21
But yeah, with it is funny though, that with the with
26:26
lobster and Bitcoin like since it's just this protocol,
26:31
everything that's getting built on it, both protocols just makes
26:34
the entire ecosystem stronger. So there's this kind of sense of
26:40
collaboration because we all have the same goal, which is to
26:45
make well for Bitcoin, make Bitcoin money for 8 billion
26:50
people and then for not there, yeah, just bring more people
26:54
into the ecosystem who will eventually hopefully use one of
26:57
your apps. So.
27:00
Yeah, well, the whole social layer is, is right up your
27:04
alley, by the sounds of it. I mean, the fact that Bitcoin
27:07
clicked at the social layer. And I was going to say Nosta
27:11
kind of fixes all of this. And what I love about being on
27:14
Nosta is every now and again you'll see a post from someone
27:18
who doesn't understand Bitcoin just yet, but they're on Nosta
27:22
because they heard about it for some reason or whatever and
27:24
they're checking it out. And then you kind of you give
27:28
them a follow or whatever. And then maybe a couple of weeks
27:30
later they, you start seeing them post about, you know, the,
27:34
the Bitcoin wheels are turning and they're like, I'm getting
27:37
zapped these sats or something. And there's something happening
27:41
here. I'm not quite sure what, but
27:44
it's cool and I enjoy it. There's a guy I think, but the
27:48
bit the big, the big, the bit the Noster businesses like like
27:52
soap minor or Shadow Earth Mom soap, Soap 21.
27:56
There's this guy. He was offering like like really
28:01
good quality shirts or something, 50% off, I can't
28:04
remember, but like that's just a major.
28:09
Yes. That was it, yeah.
28:11
Yeah. And I was thinking, oh, man, I
28:12
wouldn't mind getting myself a couple of Western shirts.
28:15
That was it. Like these heavy denim shirts, I
28:19
love those things. And then I was like, I probably
28:21
doesn't post out here to to where I'm at in Australia.
28:25
But point being is that there's this emergent set of businesses
28:30
that are leveraging this early doors, hyper focused, very
28:34
passionate, curious individuals on this protocol.
28:39
And like, it's just, it's so cool.
28:41
It's so cool to see and it's all just compounding on itself.
28:46
And I mean, you'd see all this first hand, I'd say, you know,
28:49
being being a primer there, which which is like this
28:54
coalescence. It's almost like that purple
28:56
door is the preamble to the orange door, so to speak.
29:01
I don't know what's the what's what is your POV.
29:06
Yeah, can you hear that? I'm trying to avoid this Dang
29:10
blower, but I. Can hear it, it's OK, The
29:13
ambient noise is good. All right, oh, so loud.
29:18
I'm going to another room. Perfect.
29:23
I like what Derek Ross says. He goes the purple pill makes
29:26
the orange pill go down smoother.
29:29
And it's so true because like when you hop on primal now when
29:35
there's since there's no KYC in it, you just kind of show up on
29:37
the app and it looks like a familiar social app.
29:42
And next thing you know, you might get this notification that
29:45
says somebody zapped you and you just posted something like, I
29:52
think it is one of the smoothest on ramps to Bitcoin.
29:55
It's fundamentally new on ramp to Bitcoin and people might not
30:00
even know they're using Bitcoin when they hop on Primal.
30:02
I mean, that'd be a major win. Right now it's just mostly
30:04
Bitcoiners and probably friends bringing their maybe normally
30:06
friends on because it's an easier, it's an easy
30:09
introduction to Bitcoin with the social graph and everything and
30:14
being able to pay your friends back without doing lightning
30:16
invoices. I will still die on this hill
30:21
that it is the most friendly route to get into Bitcoin.
30:24
Like now when people used to just do wall to Satoshi for
30:28
their friends. I think with Primal now we
30:31
basically have wall. It's wall to Satoshi in Primal.
30:34
So like, it's just that much better because you have a social
30:38
graph attached to it now too. Bitcoin is immediately useful
30:41
instead of like the speculative asset that just sits there and
30:44
you got to hear talking heads on the news, the app about it.
30:47
Like, no, it's just this thing that flows over the Internet.
30:50
It's a beautiful expression of I what I think Bitcoin was
30:54
intended to be. But with that, The thing is
30:58
Bitcoin at the moment is front and centre.
31:02
It's it's the thing like this is another podcast about Bitcoin
31:05
discovering Bitcoin. There's there's, you know,
31:08
people and Bitcoin is tuned in to listen to Bitcoin as talk
31:11
about Bitcoin. And that's cool, that's fine,
31:13
that's great. That's the whole thing.
31:16
But it's at the forefront. It's it's not supposed to be
31:19
though. If it's money, it's supposed to
31:20
just run and harm quietly in the background and do its thing and
31:24
help us to coordinate and scale and transact and do cool shit.
31:29
And the cool thing about Nosta is that it does make that like
31:35
run in the background when you jump on the primal and you're,
31:39
as you said, like you can just ZAP a few stats.
31:41
And with the latest update where you, you know, encouraged to
31:45
write down the 1212 word seed phrase, like that's another
31:49
little stepping stone. Some people won't necessarily be
31:52
ready for that, but it's, it's the right kind of path to outlay
31:57
to someone who's just there to that's heard about it being like
32:01
a, a decent alternative to, you know, walled garden, central
32:05
media, social media or something.
32:08
But I like the fact that Bitcoin can run in the background on, on
32:12
these applications, whether it's primal amethyst, you know,
32:16
there's a bunch of them where it's not the main thing.
32:20
And I've always thought you can kind of like people love to do
32:26
meat. Like I, I, I think Bitcoin is
32:29
most effective when it's in a meat space, you know, context
32:34
and you have hands, heart and head and you kind of use it
32:37
first you feel the power of, of using it and then you can
32:41
intellectualize it later on. And when you're in like a meat
32:46
space environment, the Bitcoin conferences are cool.
32:51
But I think what would be cooler is an event where people were
32:55
there to be at the event to, to connect with music or art or,
33:00
you know, comedy or whatever it is.
33:02
And then you had all these different vendors onboarding,
33:05
you know, to Bitcoin and they could just take Bitcoin
33:09
payments. But that's.
33:10
What? That's my goal.
33:12
I just want to. Nice.
33:13
Oh boy. I'm, I'm starting to speak this
33:15
into existence. Oh boy.
33:17
I went to Envision, which is like this festival that's been
33:21
going on for a while in Costa Rica.
33:23
It was my first time going. I'd always kind of had all these
33:26
like, yeah, too many hippies. They're all like thrash beach,
33:29
blah blahs. But no, it was actually really
33:31
beautiful and really cool and really well done.
33:32
And I'm like, and everybody's there talking about New Earth,
33:36
new earth, blah, blah, blah. And it's kind of cringe, but at
33:40
the same time, this whole new Earth, it's so clear to me needs
33:45
to run on Noster and Bitcoin or play a huge role in the new
33:48
Earth. Like, yeah, we're talking about
33:50
new Earth on Instagram. It's like bro.
33:53
Yeah, it's not. It but you obviously got to rope
33:58
new people in obviously, but so but that's kind of like my goal.
34:02
I want to get everybody in meat space to start using the thing
34:05
using the thing because the tools are here now I know here
34:09
in Bitcoin jungle like, yeah, I mean it's just normal to use
34:12
Bitcoin and it's super inconvenient when I leave here
34:15
and I got to get some fee out of my banks or whatever.
34:20
And just a cool anecdote of kind of just the different feel of
34:26
primal and and how it's just down here it's just real because
34:32
like my friend came over the other day and she showed me her
34:34
wallet she's like I have a lot of money in primal right now and
34:38
I I think I saw an e-mail about a wallet upgrade what's up with
34:40
that? And she's like got like over
34:43
$1000 of Bitcoin at her want. She's like, yeah, I just started
34:46
accepting it here through Primal, and people are just on
34:48
here like it's easy. So they just, you know, pay me.
34:51
I'm like, oh, this is freaking beautiful.
34:53
This is it. Like, is that ease of use?
34:57
And yeah, it's just being money. And then like, oh, I need to go
35:02
spend it there. I'm out of Fiat right now.
35:04
Let me go spend some Bitcoin. It's there.
35:08
Yeah, we, I, I, I got a nice little surprise just last
35:13
weekend when I went to my local farmers market and this producer
35:20
that I've been working on just just asking, you know, and I
35:24
had, she's the only one that's actually never kind of, you
35:27
know, cringed when I said the word Bitcoin.
35:30
And anyway, she's, she's finally, she's finally started
35:34
accepting it. And so I kind of loaded up like,
35:38
you know, she sells these awesome chickens.
35:40
They ain't cheap. They're very expensive.
35:44
But I was like, oh, fuck it. Like, you know, and, and thank
35:47
goodness my wife's awesome and she can just make it go as far
35:50
as, as possible. So, you know, it was $40, right,
35:53
$40 Australian. She's probably like, I don't
35:56
know, 20 for chicken. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:59
But also, we live in Australia and everything's expensive and,
36:03
and our government has got it under control.
36:06
So I'll just go back to bed. But yeah, you're good.
36:10
But yeah, man, it was, it was just a cool feeling.
36:13
And then I started to think, oh, hang on a minute, like if I can
36:15
onboard a couple of others maybe, and then we could get
36:18
them on to Nosta. That would be cool as well, but
36:22
you're doing that actively over there in the Bitcoin jungle.
36:26
I just kind of want to get a glimpse of, you mentioned it was
36:28
kind of like, yeah, everyone just accepts and it's kind of
36:30
just normal part of daily life that runs in the background is
36:33
that, yeah. Is that cool?
36:37
It doesn't get old like it's it's magic every time like and I
36:39
get to go run around and use the tech and play with it.
36:42
Like the other day I was blowing people's minds with the Bitcoin
36:45
ring. And then I also that was Joe
36:47
Nakamoto's though. And I also have like a bolt card
36:51
and I hate having my phone. You know, it's just like my
36:55
phone feels like a leash when I have it, especially when I'm out
36:58
and about. So I was able to just load up
37:01
this card with Bitcoin and just go pay everybody with NFCI.
37:04
Mean that's why I want to get set up for this festival next
37:09
year, maybe give like slight discount if you pay with the
37:11
Bitcoin and however we're going to do it.
37:15
But yeah, it's, it's like it's happening and it's here and
37:18
it's, I live 100% on a Bitcoin standard and I have some friends
37:24
that do the same and it's calling new people down here.
37:29
I get messages all the time, like, hey, I'm down here, this
37:32
is awesome. Maybe I'll see you and meet up
37:35
with a lot of people when I keep feeling that.
37:39
And yeah, it's been like since, since there was a pretty
37:43
convenient option in with Bitcoin Jungle and what they've
37:46
created. And there's a solid amount of
37:49
Bitcoins here. It's like kind of just
37:52
convenient to accept it. And your neighbor does.
37:54
And they've been through a couple bull markets, also been
37:57
through a bear market too. So like they see the promise and
38:02
of it and the word has just been spreading.
38:06
It's not always pretty, like, you know, goes down, but it's
38:12
cool, Yeah. When you Costa Rica.
38:14
Cologne isn't going to go to, you know, we don't know what
38:18
it's going to do, even though the Costa Rica Cologne, by by
38:21
the way, is like the strongest Fiat in the world right now.
38:24
Is it? Yeah.
38:26
It's like getting stronger towards the dollar.
38:29
I don't know how. That's crazy.
38:32
OK, I didn't know. I have no idea.
38:34
As the other thing is like, like when you're in that space and
38:37
you're in that, that literal circular economy.
38:39
And this is the other, the other thing I think, I think Bitcoin
38:43
is local money. It's global.
38:44
You can send it anywhere. You can ZAP anyone anywhere,
38:47
anytime, but it's local as well. And within that Bitcoin jungle,
38:51
that money is staying in that community.
38:53
I mean, it can you know, like be zapped across the world, but
38:57
predominantly that is a circular economy happening right now on
39:03
sound money and everyone is is a net beneficiary of that.
39:07
Yeah, it's cool. It just keeps getting SeaWorld.
39:11
Yeah, I like to hear those stories like I did with my
39:13
friend who, you know, isn't like a That's the thing.
39:16
You just come here and you start using it like you, you can
39:19
listen to Galaxy Brains all day on podcasts, but then you just
39:22
come and use it and buy freaking banana on the side of the road
39:25
with it. Like that's Bitcoin, Yes. 100%
39:29
looks. Like idiots, Gorgeous.
39:31
That's the hand in the heart 100%.
39:34
Yeah, the Galaxy springs that they could, they're cool, but I
39:38
mean that was the other two. I was going to ask, do you pay
39:41
much attention to the kind of quote UN quote macro culture or
39:46
like, you know, obviously when price tips and your purchasing
39:50
power goes down a little bit, that kind of sucks except to
39:53
spend more sets. But is it?
39:56
Are you kind of caught in that hype cycle as much?
40:02
Absolutely not. I'm pretty ignorant out here by
40:05
chance, by choice, like Bitcoin and Noster covers a lot of bases
40:09
as it is, right? These big dreams that that has.
40:14
But in terms of news and everything, I try to just just
40:17
stay in my lane. And even with Bitcoin dramas
40:20
like, you know, changes of the code quantum, Nope, that's not
40:24
my lane. You know, we all have a role in
40:27
this and that's not necessarily mine.
40:31
I try not to get too caught and stuff like that.
40:35
And I did want to make one more point about like the whole
40:37
getting farmers market. You just kind of realized how
40:40
ridiculous this all is with how we do it now.
40:45
So you go to a farmers market in the States and they'll have
40:48
their Instagram, they'll have their YouTube, they'll have
40:52
their Venmo and their hub, their Zelle and PayPal.
40:57
Right. Now maybe in this crazy future
41:02
world that I want to live in, it's just like, hey, what's your
41:05
nostril address? Mine's Paul at primal.net.
41:08
OK, great. You can go find all my content
41:10
there. You could pay me there.
41:12
Boom. Right?
41:13
How cool would that be? Yeah.
41:16
And just super frictionless. That's the thing.
41:19
The the, the friction. That's why I think.
41:20
It'll eventually win because of that.
41:23
Like not changing a bunch of currencies.
41:26
It's like just one, one for all, all your content in one spot.
41:30
Not having to go look up bunch of different handles on a bunch
41:34
of different apps. Yeah, yeah.
41:38
Just making it super. And The thing is it's
41:41
centralized decentralization. Like you can use Primal if you
41:46
want, you can use one of the other apps as well.
41:50
And you don't have to necessarily like you guys have
41:53
to make Primal the best. So that people do want to stay
41:57
keeps you guys on your toes as well, because we would just boot
42:00
out to something else like Damus or Amethyst, you know, and, and
42:05
so you don't have like this misaligned incentive where it's
42:08
like, you know, with, with X or Twitter or whatever, you know,
42:13
where it's, it's pretty much like if you, if you want to be
42:16
on that kind of an app thing, or that's the one you have to use
42:19
and fuck you if you don't like it kind of thing.
42:22
Basically. You can also curate your own
42:25
feeds too. I love the Mystics of Nasda
42:26
feed. It always teaches me something
42:30
new. And there's a lot of cool people
42:31
that hang out on that feed. But yeah, man, it's, it's, it's
42:37
bananas. I did need to ask you quick
42:39
break just to say if you're enjoying the show and digging
42:41
what you hear, please consider supporting Discovery's Bitcoin
42:45
by shooting, boosting, standing, or zapping the show.
42:48
Some sats if you're listening via a podcasting 2 point O app
42:51
such as Fountain Pod, Verse or Breeze, it's easier done than
42:55
said. All you got to do is tap the
42:58
boost button or set an amount of SAT's to stream per minute while
43:02
you're listening. Alternatively, if you want to
43:04
snap me direct via lightning address, please send zaps and
43:08
SAT's or zaps of SAT's in support of the show to
43:13
discovering Bitcoin at primal.net.
43:16
Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.
43:20
How has discovering Bitcoin changed you?
43:22
It's. These people are so good at
43:30
putting out the words sometimes. Like you ever used to listen to
43:32
John Ballas go. Off.
43:35
Yeah, yeah, He's a kid. It's good stuff.
43:39
It's, it's very, it's interesting like what Bitcoin
43:43
does when you generate your keys like offline or whatever and you
43:46
just have your funds and cold starts and nobody can touch you.
43:51
Like just it, it really empowers you.
43:55
And I don't say it makes me fearless, but there's definitely
44:02
a lot less fear I have towards governments than a lot of people
44:06
do. Or just sometimes I forget.
44:09
I'm completely crazy too, by the way.
44:13
When you surround yourself with people who think the same and
44:17
are on the same wavelength as that, it's, it's also given me a
44:25
bit of a mission. I did grow up quite religious.
44:30
Yeah, I guess you could say religious.
44:32
I just grew up in the church. I went to Christian School, high
44:34
school, college and everything. And I didn't really question too
44:39
much my entire life is just it just kind of worked and then
44:42
started travelling and I realized like my little cookie
44:45
cutter version of Christianity doesn't really scale well or,
44:51
you know, just wasn't really well thought through.
44:54
And then also thinking about how Bitcoin can change the world and
44:59
it kind of just gives gave like AI don't know, a mission for me,
45:05
something to work towards, something that I think I could
45:08
play a part in that makes me feel good about how I spend my
45:13
days and time and lets me look people straight in the eye.
45:18
You know, the conviction I have like, hey, I think this is a
45:20
good idea. Yeah.
45:25
So I guess mission and just like a little bit of the little bit
45:32
of the fuck you attitude, just the fearless, like hey, no, not
45:36
just I I'm sovereign being like, yeah.
45:42
The power of no is super underrated.
45:47
You know, the, the, the meme Bitcoin is fuck you, money is
45:51
super underrated. And that notion of like
45:57
orientation, I guess it's kind of you like it's a North star,
46:03
so to speak. It's it's like a a thing you can
46:08
stand on and act on and be on and know that so long as you
46:15
don't rug pull yourself, you know, write down your seed
46:17
words, do all the hygiene things that that you, you know, the
46:20
best practice, you're cool, you're good to go, you know, and
46:26
and you can and you can meet cool people like the social
46:30
network and meet space and online is is insane.
46:32
You can travel anywhere in the world.
46:35
Put out the call. Hey, are there any bitcoiners in
46:37
the city? You can use the orange pill app
46:38
or club orange, I think it's called now you can use primal.
46:42
You can do all all these different things and you can
46:45
connect with people and and you're kind of almost never and
46:48
I hate Liverpool, but you'll never walk alone.
46:52
Yeah, that's. That's a great piece of that.
46:57
Yeah, I mean you mentioned you grew up in the like gone, gone
47:02
to church and stuff. I mean that can that can warp a
47:05
kids mind a little bit because it's kind of it's it's organised
47:11
religion, which is never really a a very productive thing.
47:15
I don't think any kind of any kind of mediators or
47:18
intermediaries that you have to go through to get to the source.
47:23
You got to you got to kind of question it.
47:26
And it's the same with Bitcoin. Like you there, you don't have
47:29
to have an intermediary. I mean, there's exchange
47:33
platforms and stuff. Obviously shout out hard Block,
47:37
one of the sponsors of the show. But the point is that you can
47:41
use Robosats, you could use bisque, you could go to a
47:45
Bitcoin jungle and trade bananas, you know?
47:51
Yeah. And so you don't need to.
47:55
I could use genuinely peer-to-peer if you want it to
47:58
be. There was a Condolorian meme
48:01
posted the other day or something, like they're all
48:03
worried about not being able to use blacklisted Bitcoin at the
48:08
party. And then, like, there's all
48:09
these people just like, no, we're cool.
48:11
We're just like, peer-to-peer. It's all good.
48:15
Yeah, shout out to Cord that he makes the best memes.
48:20
So it's had a net positive effect.
48:22
We can we can say safely say on your life.
48:26
And one of the cool things I mean, I I like I always like
48:32
this is just me. This is my karma and my dumb
48:34
that I got to deal with. But I always find it like I'm
48:39
not comfortable sharing my life online, but I love the fact that
48:44
there was a video you posted the other day of this car that you
48:46
bought and I had all these spare seats and you had you and your
48:49
wife and your, and your kid and you're like, and we're going to
48:52
fill the whole thing up, man. And, and I was like, my heart
48:54
was so warmed off of that. Like, that's not me.
48:57
I can't do that. Like I don't have the confidence
48:59
to do that. And I just don't want people to
49:01
know about my shit anyway. But I just loved seeing that,
49:07
and I guess that maybe wouldn't have happened without Bitcoin.
49:12
If that's too much of A stretch, let me know, but I don't know.
49:16
Well, that's part of Bitcoin culture too, right?
49:19
And now that these people are my friends, I mean, it's only like
49:24
I said, it's hard to put words to.
49:25
And part of Bitcoin culture is have kids, I love it.
49:28
And you move off grid, live, live a wholesome life and just
49:33
do your part. What is it?
49:36
Stay humble, focus on your craft.
49:37
Stack stats that mean yeah. Yeah, and make.
49:41
Babies, it's a quiet. Life.
49:43
Yeah, and just everybody I talk to is just like, yeah, babies
49:48
are the best, make as many as you can.
49:49
I only regret only having 2. So I'm speaking that into
49:53
existence as well, God willing. So we'll see.
49:56
Yeah. Yeah.
49:57
And then you have regarding being online and just being a
50:00
face online, I'm like, yeah, I think this is just my role.
50:05
I'm just going to roll with it. You're.
50:06
Leaning in, man, people. That do it, yeah, I'm just
50:08
leaning in full on like all right, I am the mascot for
50:12
Primal and maybe some of the part of the mascot team for
50:16
Bitcoin. Leaning in, yeah.
50:22
That's what it is. You got to lean in.
50:23
And yeah, I mean, I've, I've thought about that.
50:27
I'm trying to like do that within just my local community,
50:30
which is insane when I think about it because like the people
50:34
that could actually physically like $5.10 dollars, $20.00, I
50:38
don't know how much a wrench is nowadays, attack me is like
50:42
obviously in the immediate vicinity.
50:44
And yet I'm the most comfortable talking about Bitcoin to those
50:47
people. Yeah, so me too.
50:50
I just. Yeah, that's really like.
50:54
I get to the market now and they're like, Oh yeah, like the
50:57
Bitcoin guys here. That's cool.
50:59
Let's go and ask, did you guess You got the chicken person?
51:01
You get anybody else yet? No, a lot of them are a little
51:06
bit older than the than the chicken lady.
51:11
And I've got, I've got a couple of, there's a, there's a butcher
51:16
actually in town who's keen. And I know a guy who's into
51:21
networking and he's, I've got to still get him out of his little
51:24
shit coin phase. But it's a heartening thing,
51:27
man. And, and, and it's, it takes
51:31
time. That's the thing that we've all
51:33
got to remember, particularly with this Bitcoin thing, $10
51:35
million a coin, awesome price target.
51:38
But I mean, at the end of the day, like he's like, OK, you got
51:41
$10 million per coin. What can you buy with that?
51:44
I don't know, like you probably at that point have got, have you
51:48
built yourself a little local network?
51:50
And you don't even need to convert that back to shitty
51:53
dollars anyway. But I digress.
51:56
Point is, is this stuff's going to take time.
51:58
And we just got to show up and keep building the cool things.
52:01
And as we mentioned at the top of the show, all the
52:04
conversation is maintaining that sense of enthusiasm and
52:08
curiosity, you know, and not getting bogged down in the in
52:12
the suit and tie wearing and the getting stuck in traffic wearing
52:14
and, and stuff like that. Like, I mean, people are on
52:17
their own little paths and got their own timelines to contend
52:22
with, but ultimately Bitcoin is the is the the kind of catalyst
52:30
for, yeah, walking away and going to do something else,
52:34
whatever that may be. Definitely.
52:41
What do you wish more people? Knew about Bitcoin?
52:45
What do I wish like that people? That well, I just don't want
53:00
people to be scared of Bitcoin. That's cool.
53:05
I want people. Yeah, I want people out.
53:07
That's why I'm obsessed with Primal as well, too.
53:09
Like just that first touch. I just want people to play with
53:12
their bitcoins, damn it. Have fun playing with your
53:15
bitcoins. That's what I.
53:17
That's what I wish. That's why I respect what you
53:20
know, Square and Cash apps doing with they're quite like, hey,
53:23
just just play with it like because there's so much fun
53:26
online, like the the slow this that Epstein this now just go
53:31
play with the bitcoins. Go feel it because that's how
53:33
we're all going to learn and eventually upgrade.
53:38
But that being said to like even with primal setup right now, you
53:42
have two private keys. It's kind of ridiculous.
53:46
So we're still evolving and you can be learning and figure out
53:49
how to make the revolution have good UX and, you know, feasible
53:53
to the normal person, like because if you've been around
53:57
for a while, yeah, you it's, it's hard to kind of keep a
54:01
touch on what's actually normal and see things from an army
54:07
perspective that haven't played with their bitcoins yet.
54:10
That is so true. Like you spend so much time down
54:15
the rabbit hole and you kind of begin to assume that everybody
54:21
kind of knows like about this thing.
54:23
And then you realize, oh shit, like 9 out of 10 people around
54:26
me have no clue what the hell I'm talking about.
54:31
And yeah, you do have to kind of check yourself a little bit.
54:35
And you can have the easiest, smoothest onboarding ever.
54:39
Like when you when you do sign up to something like you get,
54:44
you get issued a private key, public private key pair on, on
54:49
Noster. And then you have to have the
54:51
conversation. All right?
54:52
So just, you got to keep just keep this safe, you know?
54:56
And then I what? Yeah, just don't.
54:59
I just use my e-mail and password, isn't it?
55:02
And that's such an archaic flow, but yeah, Oh my gosh.
55:07
I'm allergic to it now, it's so bad.
55:09
It's, it's, it's horrible, man. It really and that's this is the
55:13
thing about Bitcoin too like we're so far into the future
55:16
whenever you're using this thing for anything like you just I
55:21
find myself more often than not thinking I could have just paid
55:23
with lightning and it'd just be done.
55:25
You just show me AQR code may be done.
55:27
Why am I why am I doing this? Why am I getting out my CVC
55:32
entering in the credit card number?
55:35
Oh I got. My credit card number memorized
55:37
and like, you know, that stuff like you learning the Fiat
55:42
system, maybe it wasn't that hard.
55:44
I mean, we're thinking just eventually kind of just upgrade
55:46
and not really even, you know, realize it'll just be the money.
55:50
It'll be boring. Make Bitcoin pouring.
55:52
Make it boring. That it'll hum in the
55:53
background, evolve. Yeah.
55:58
What does Bitcoin mean to you? I mean, I really do buy the
56:12
whole Hope narrative. It's.
56:15
Just I won't too much. Star Wars, man, it's definitely
56:19
just a great piece of hope software for the world.
56:25
So I don't know if that really answers what it means to me, but
56:34
yeah, that's why it's I just can't Unsee it.
56:37
Like the hope piece? I hope software is a cool turn
56:42
of phrase. I like that a lot.
56:45
Might even steal it I think. Did I quote?
56:48
That point that I don't know, you might.
56:50
Have I don't know, I'll, I'll, I'll be sure to credit you as
56:55
required. You'll always be in the in the
56:57
footnotes, in the endnotes. Will Zab.
57:02
That's cool. That's cool.
57:05
Yeah. It's hard to get caught up in
57:06
the hope thing because it's tainted so much, you know,
57:10
hopes, the thing that kills you. And a lot of people are very so
57:16
black pilled and bitter and, you know, the, the, the world's
57:21
turning to shit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
57:23
And then these idiots in charge, they compound it.
57:26
And you know, and, and when you open X and I fucking hate
57:29
opening X or Twitter, you genuinely see some sort of rage
57:34
baiting thing and I just have to, it's not done, you know,
57:39
because if you engage, you will, your energy goes, you know,
57:44
where your attention flows, or rather the other way around.
57:48
And you start to put yourself into a bad mood.
57:52
So you really have to cultivate and be very disciplined and
57:56
strict with your attention. And it's not to say you can get
58:00
caught up in a hope cycle either, but you know, because
58:04
you still got to show up because still got to build the things,
58:07
do the do the work, make the make the function the function,
58:11
make the form the form. Because otherwise, yes, like
58:17
we're just sitting around playing with our bitcoins hoping
58:19
that some institution will pump our bags.
58:23
OK, no, that's not how this works.
58:31
I think we're done, man. Paul, thank you so much for
58:35
spending some scarce time finding energy telling us the
58:37
tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
58:40
Thanks for having me on.