Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Leon Black And His Epstein Related Congressional Transcript (Part 3) (7/20/26)

Transcript

Leon Black And His Epstein Related Congressional Transcript (Part 3) (7/20/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:02
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
0:05
Speaker 1: where he left off with Leon Black and the transcript
0:08
Speaker 1: from his meeting with Congress. Question, mister Black, I'm going
0:13
Speaker 1: to ask at this stage that you try to be
0:15
Speaker 1: respectful of our time and your own. We do want
0:18
Speaker 1: to get you out of here at a reasonable hour,
0:21
Speaker 1: and we have a lot of questions, so I'm going
0:22
Speaker 1: to ask that you answer the questions that I'm asking you.
0:26
Speaker 1: You mentioned an independent Black cuts her off. Didn't I
0:30
Speaker 1: just do that when you asked me what was the
0:32
Speaker 1: decord report? Question? Excuse me, mister Cutler. He did. He
0:36
Speaker 1: answered the question, Miss Brignac. Thank you. Just wanted to
0:39
Speaker 1: make a note, Miss Brignac, you mentioned an independent committee.
0:43
Speaker 1: Who are the members of this conflict committee? Answer? One
0:46
Speaker 1: was Buzzy Krongrad, who had been either he was the
0:50
Speaker 1: head of the bank in Baltimore, had been on a
0:52
Speaker 1: number of boards for many years, and he was either
0:55
Speaker 1: the number two or number three at CIA. Number one,
0:58
Speaker 1: number two there was a man named Deuce who had
1:00
Speaker 1: been the chair of Apollo Company earlier that had been
1:03
Speaker 1: subsequently sold. And three there was a woman. Oh my goodness,
1:07
Speaker 1: having a senior moment. Question Pauline Richards answer yes, mister Black.
1:14
Speaker 1: Answer who was involved? I think in the Caribbean island
1:17
Speaker 1: and she had been. She was pretty sophisticated from a
1:20
Speaker 1: financial point of view. Question have any of those members
1:23
Speaker 1: you listed have any association with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer not
1:27
Speaker 1: that I'm aware of. Question were you involved in any
1:29
Speaker 1: way in Apollo's decision to hire Deckert? Answer no, I
1:33
Speaker 1: was not. Question you mentioned Andy Andrew Lavander led the investigation.
1:37
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer yes. Question how did you meet
1:40
Speaker 1: mister LeVander? Answer? I didn't really know mister LeVander. He
1:43
Speaker 1: led and interviewed me. I know, is part of the investigation.
1:47
Speaker 1: Question are you aware that mister Lavander is reported to
1:50
Speaker 1: have known mister Epstein when he was an assistant US
1:52
Speaker 1: attorney in the Southern District of New York in the eighties?
1:55
Speaker 1: Answer no. Question Were you aware of any relationship between
1:59
Speaker 1: mister l and mister Epstein? Answer no. Question Upon hearing
2:03
Speaker 1: what I just said, do you find it concerning that
2:06
Speaker 1: mister LeVander had a relationship with mister Epstein? Answered no,
2:10
Speaker 1: Why what was the relationship? I don't know what the
2:14
Speaker 1: nature of the relationship was. Question they had a relationship?
2:17
Speaker 1: Do you find it concerning? Answer? Were they good friends?
2:20
Speaker 1: Or or was one investigating the other? Question I'm going
2:24
Speaker 1: to ask you, Black cuts her off. I just don't know. Question.
2:28
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you that I finished my question
2:30
Speaker 1: before you answer. Do you find it concerning that this
2:33
Speaker 1: independent investigatory panel selected a person who you know or
2:37
Speaker 1: now know had an investigation or had a relationship with
2:40
Speaker 1: mister Epstein to conduct your investigation of your ties with
2:44
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer? I find it impossible to answer your
2:47
Speaker 1: question without knowing the nature of that relationship. Question do
2:51
Speaker 1: you find the fact that they had a relationship concerning? Answer? No,
2:55
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't If they were good friends, then
2:57
Speaker 1: it would be concerning. If he had investigated Epstein for
2:59
Speaker 1: something prior years before, then I don't find it concerning,
3:04
Speaker 1: But you need to. I mean, it's difficult to answer
3:06
Speaker 1: that question without knowing the nature of what the relationship was.
3:10
Speaker 1: Question did any members of the Conflict Committee personally benefit
3:13
Speaker 1: from your name being cleared of wrongdoing by the Decker Report?
3:17
Speaker 1: Answer no. Question do you know Earl Nemser, an attorney
3:21
Speaker 1: for Deckert, Answer no question. Okay, returning to your relationship
3:25
Speaker 1: with mister Epstein, did you socialize with mister Ebstein in
3:29
Speaker 1: a personal capacity? Answer? Well, I just told you that.
3:32
Speaker 1: Well why don't I elaborate? Thank you for asking the question.
3:36
Speaker 1: I know mister Epstein basically in two ways. One he
3:39
Speaker 1: performed professional services for my family office. That included helping
3:42
Speaker 1: put together the family office, which was making a lot
3:45
Speaker 1: of mistakes because as I said, it was kind of nascent,
3:49
Speaker 1: but also with a lot of beneficial tax and estate
3:52
Speaker 1: planning services. I also knew him, as I said, because
3:55
Speaker 1: he had extraordinary roll of deecks of people in many fields.
3:58
Speaker 1: And as I said, if you want to social, I
4:01
Speaker 1: guess that would be social when he called and said
4:03
Speaker 1: would you like to meet this interesting person? Or during
4:06
Speaker 1: un week where dozens of people from all over the
4:08
Speaker 1: world would come to his townhouse and say would you
4:11
Speaker 1: like to join us? You'll find these people interesting. I did,
4:14
Speaker 1: so from that point of view, I guess you could
4:16
Speaker 1: say I socialized because I met scientists through them. I
4:19
Speaker 1: met people involved in government through them, and business because
4:22
Speaker 1: I went over and joined them for a drink at
4:24
Speaker 1: the townhouse when they were there. So from that point
4:26
Speaker 1: of view, I would say it was dual. One it
4:30
Speaker 1: was professional and two I enjoy taking advantage of all
4:33
Speaker 1: the network of interesting people that he knew. Question what
4:36
Speaker 1: is the Deborah and Leon Black Family Foundation? Answer? I'm
4:40
Speaker 1: not sure. I think it was something set up early.
4:43
Speaker 1: There have been many There have been an evolution of
4:45
Speaker 1: a lot of names. We have a few billion dollars
4:48
Speaker 1: today and we're involved with with philanthropy, but it started
4:51
Speaker 1: off smaller. But we've always been interested in philanthropic work.
4:55
Speaker 1: We wanted to get our children involved in that also,
4:58
Speaker 1: and so I think, and I don't want to se
5:00
Speaker 1: speculate exactly what that was, but I think it was
5:02
Speaker 1: one of many entities, if you will, which was involved
5:05
Speaker 1: for our family for the trust to get involved in
5:07
Speaker 1: the philanthropic activities. But I'm speculating a little bit because
5:12
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Question. Let me ask, then, which entity
5:15
Speaker 1: did you and your wife appoint mister Epstein to the
5:18
Speaker 1: board of directors of nineteen ninety seven? Answer? I think
5:22
Speaker 1: that was the name of it. Question Why did you
5:25
Speaker 1: place mister Epstein on the board in nineteen ninety seven? Question?
5:29
Speaker 1: Because I thought he was really smart in areas having
5:31
Speaker 1: to do with trusts and foundations and charitable work. Question
5:35
Speaker 1: and this was only a year or two after having
5:37
Speaker 1: met him? Correct answer, it was a couple of years, yeah, exactly.
5:40
Speaker 1: Question And this appointment caused you to confide personal details
5:43
Speaker 1: about your financial matters and your family with mister Epstein?
5:47
Speaker 1: Correct answer? Yes. Question did anyone push back on this appointment?
5:52
Speaker 1: Answer not that I can recall. Question And how long
5:56
Speaker 1: did he serve on the Black Family Foundation? Answer? I
5:59
Speaker 1: think or if you're saying it happened in ninety seven,
6:02
Speaker 1: is that what you just mentioned? I think he was
6:05
Speaker 1: on it until he went to jail and was convicted
6:07
Speaker 1: and I asked him to come off. I would also
6:10
Speaker 1: just mention, and I know you reminded me about one time.
6:13
Speaker 1: I don't think that entity did a whole lot. Question
6:16
Speaker 1: why asked mister Epstein to resign from a board when
6:18
Speaker 1: he was convicted? Answer? Because I thought it was appropriate
6:22
Speaker 1: if we had a family foundation and there were only
6:24
Speaker 1: three members on it, my wife, myself and him, that
6:26
Speaker 1: he stepped back from it. Question. You've been quoted to
6:30
Speaker 1: say that his conviction was not that big of a
6:32
Speaker 1: deal to you, but it sounds like it did cause
6:35
Speaker 1: concern enough for you to take action in removing him
6:38
Speaker 1: from your family foundation. Answer, as I said, I don't
6:42
Speaker 1: think the family foundation did a lot, but it was
6:44
Speaker 1: something that was out there, it was public, it only
6:46
Speaker 1: had three members. He was in jail, and I don't
6:49
Speaker 1: think that the family foundation was appropriate. Question. So, then
6:53
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, we've covered about a decade of
6:55
Speaker 1: dealings between you and mister Epstein. How frequently over that
6:59
Speaker 1: decade did you interact with him? Answer? It's hard to say,
7:02
Speaker 1: but my home was two blocks from his townhouse. Sometimes
7:05
Speaker 1: we would have breakfast together, and sometimes i'd go over
7:08
Speaker 1: if he had interesting people for drinks at five or six,
7:11
Speaker 1: for an hour or an hour and a half. Maybe,
7:13
Speaker 1: I don't know, once a month, once every three weeks,
7:15
Speaker 1: something like that, Miss Brignac. And can we agree that
7:19
Speaker 1: you developed the friendship over the years. Yes? Answer. Friendship
7:23
Speaker 1: is an amorphoist term. This is somebody who knew intimately
7:27
Speaker 1: the goings on in my family, tax and estate planning entities.
7:30
Speaker 1: It's also something where as I mentioned, i'd go over
7:33
Speaker 1: to meet his friends. I know that there are emails
7:36
Speaker 1: where he claims that were best friends. We were never
7:38
Speaker 1: best friends. Was I friendly with him? From the point
7:41
Speaker 1: of view of enjoying his rolodex. Yes, did I think
7:44
Speaker 1: he was very smart as a professional advisor? Yes. Question
7:48
Speaker 1: I would like to now enter what is marked as
7:50
Speaker 1: majority Exhibit one. This is a letter from a book
7:53
Speaker 1: that was compiled as a gift for mister Epstein's fiftieth birthday.
7:57
Speaker 1: I'll give you a moment to review. Answer aware of
8:00
Speaker 1: this question and let me just know when we're ready.
8:03
Speaker 1: Answer I'm ready, I said, I'm aware, I know this letter.
8:07
Speaker 1: Question who reached out to you and asked you to
8:09
Speaker 1: make this submission? Answer? I believe Glenn Maxwell. Question what
8:13
Speaker 1: did she tell you that she was putting together a
8:16
Speaker 1: surprise birthday book for Epstein's fiftieth and what I contribute
8:19
Speaker 1: to it? And I said sure? Question did she send
8:23
Speaker 1: you any other letters or examples done by others? Answer? No,
8:26
Speaker 1: But she said she was putting together a book by
8:28
Speaker 1: others and I would contribute. So I knew that there
8:31
Speaker 1: were others, but I didn't know who they were. Question
8:34
Speaker 1: your submission appears to be a poem of sorts. Yes,
8:36
Speaker 1: answer a bad poem? Yes. Question In your letter, you
8:40
Speaker 1: refer to mister Epstein as VFPC, which means Vanity Fair
8:44
Speaker 1: a poster child. What does that mean? Answer it means
8:48
Speaker 1: I believe. I don't fully recall, but I think there
8:50
Speaker 1: had been a Vanity Fair article about them, that's all.
8:53
Speaker 1: Question what was that Vanity Fair article about? Answer? I
8:56
Speaker 1: don't remember, but that's what the reference is. Question what
9:00
Speaker 1: did you mean when you wrote by birds and bucks
9:03
Speaker 1: c's and m's are his key? Answer I actually don't recall.
9:06
Speaker 1: I know that buck. I think that's a reference that
9:09
Speaker 1: he liked money, and that he liked money and he
9:11
Speaker 1: liked women. He was a confirmed bachelor. Question what do
9:14
Speaker 1: you mean by blonde, rehad or brunette, spread out geographically?
9:18
Speaker 1: Answer what it says that he liked women, whether they
9:20
Speaker 1: were blonde, redheaded or brunettes. Question which women were you
9:24
Speaker 1: referring to here? Answer none specifically. Question what locations were
9:29
Speaker 1: you referring to? Answer I don't think I was. Question
9:33
Speaker 1: why would you say spread out geographically? Answer because he
9:37
Speaker 1: seemed to know women all over the world. He traveled.
9:39
Speaker 1: He was in Paris, he was in Santa Fe, he
9:41
Speaker 1: was in his island, and he enjoyed the company of
9:43
Speaker 1: good looking women, and he was a bachelor. Question how
9:46
Speaker 1: did you know he surrounded himself with good looking women. Answer, well,
9:50
Speaker 1: his staff were mostly good looking women, and his pilot
9:52
Speaker 1: was six foot blonde. I mean it was a little
9:55
Speaker 1: bit out of a James Bond movie. His plan I
9:57
Speaker 1: think remember being black, and his pilot was a six
10:00
Speaker 1: foot blonde with hair down to her waist. He was eccentric.
10:04
Speaker 1: Question who is this blonde pilot? Answer? I don't really
10:07
Speaker 1: know her? Question have you since learned that her name
10:10
Speaker 1: was redacted? Answer yes? Question did you understand redacted to
10:14
Speaker 1: be mister Epstein's girlfriend? Answer no, I still don't understand
10:18
Speaker 1: that that's news to me. Question yes, it's been widely
10:21
Speaker 1: reported on Did he have multiple girlfriends out of time? Answer?
10:24
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of his girlfriends. I know
10:26
Speaker 1: his last girlfriend, Karina, but I didn't know and I
10:29
Speaker 1: knew that he'd been with somebody before I knew him
10:31
Speaker 1: for ten years. But I didn't know his girlfriends. But
10:34
Speaker 1: I did know that he surrounded himself with good looking women.
10:37
Speaker 1: Question how old did redacted appear to be? Answer I'm
10:40
Speaker 1: sorry which one? Question the blonde pilot redacted? How old
10:43
Speaker 1: did she appear to be? Answer? I don't know, thirty,
10:46
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question have you been made aware since?
10:51
Speaker 1: Answer by Leon Black she was a registered pilot. Question
10:54
Speaker 1: have you been made aware since that Redacted had been
10:57
Speaker 1: trafficked to the United States at the age of fifteen
10:59
Speaker 1: by mister Epstein? Answer no, I didn't know that. Question
11:04
Speaker 1: Was it possible that redacted was underage? Answer? I don't
11:07
Speaker 1: believe so. I'd only met her when she was a pilot.
11:10
Speaker 1: I doubt whether she was an underage pilot. Question did
11:14
Speaker 1: you ever see her at three zero one East sixty
11:15
Speaker 1: sixth Street. Answer no. Further in the poem u state
11:19
Speaker 1: Alahambra East Jamboree, what does that refer to? Question? As
11:24
Speaker 1: I said, Epstein was quite eccentric and a little crazy
11:27
Speaker 1: with his architectural plans for his island, which he sometimes
11:30
Speaker 1: shared with me. And I think he had seven different
11:32
Speaker 1: buildings going on. They had an Asian or i'd say
11:36
Speaker 1: even more mid Eastern architectural pendulum with domes and so
11:39
Speaker 1: I called in the Eastern Alahambra based on the one
11:42
Speaker 1: in Spain, and he I think put a lot of time, effort,
11:45
Speaker 1: and money into building out those physical buildings. Question the
11:49
Speaker 1: jamboree refers to a party or a celebration. Why would
11:52
Speaker 1: you say an architectural party or celebration. Answer it's a poem,
11:56
Speaker 1: I mean gets cut off. Question for the record, does
12:00
Speaker 1: the East Alhambra refer to East Alhambra High School in California? Answer?
12:04
Speaker 1: I didn't know one existed named East Alahambra. I have
12:07
Speaker 1: no idea. That's the first I've heard of it. Question
12:10
Speaker 1: you signed the birthday letter with the following best of all,
12:13
Speaker 1: dear friend, Happy birthday, Jeffrey, loves and kisses Leon. Answer
12:17
Speaker 1: uh huh. Question did you consider mister Epstein to be
12:20
Speaker 1: a dearer friend? Answer? No, I considered him to be
12:23
Speaker 1: what I just described. I considered him to be somebody
12:26
Speaker 1: that I had known for a long time. Enjoyed his
12:29
Speaker 1: entourage of people in a lot of different fields. I
12:32
Speaker 1: appreciated the work he had done with my family office.
12:34
Speaker 1: And I was in the spirit of what was asked
12:36
Speaker 1: of me, which was festive occasion for the fiftieth birthday
12:40
Speaker 1: of a confirmed bachelor, And that was the spirit that
12:43
Speaker 1: I wrote this in. No, I told you before I
12:45
Speaker 1: didn't consider him my best friend or a dear friend.
12:48
Speaker 1: Was I friendly with him in terms of the amount
12:50
Speaker 1: of time I went over and met people at his townhouse. Yes,
12:52
Speaker 1: I was. Question your words, mister Leon, say that you
12:56
Speaker 1: called him a dearer friend. So do you sign birthday
12:59
Speaker 1: letters to all your business associates with love and kisses,
13:02
Speaker 1: dear friend? Answer sometimes? Question Okay, tell me about your
13:06
Speaker 1: first interaction with redacted? Answer? I met her at a
13:09
Speaker 1: party in New York. Nothing through Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein
13:13
Speaker 1: didn't know her. She didn't know Jeffrey Epstein. So I
13:15
Speaker 1: met her at a different party in the city. Question
13:18
Speaker 1: who introduced you? Answer? She was at the party. Question
13:21
Speaker 1: whose party? Answer? A man named Don Engel who had
13:26
Speaker 1: been a partner at Drexel. Question how did he know redacted? Answer?
13:30
Speaker 1: I have no idea. He threw a party every year
13:32
Speaker 1: for Independence Day for Russian women or something like that,
13:35
Speaker 1: and he had a party of friends and she was
13:37
Speaker 1: there and I chatted with her. Question where was she from? Answer?
13:40
Speaker 1: She was from Russia, from Tatarstan. Question have you ever
13:45
Speaker 1: engaged in sexual conduct of any kind with redacted? Answer?
13:49
Speaker 1: I had an affair with her on and off for
13:51
Speaker 1: six years, an extramarital, consensual adult fair with her. Question
13:56
Speaker 1: it was a sexual affair? Correct answer, it's already public knowledge.
14:00
Speaker 1: Question did you have sexual conduct with redacted? Answer yes.
14:03
Speaker 1: Question did you support redacted financially over the course of
14:07
Speaker 1: this affair? Answer yes. Question did you ever ask redacted
14:11
Speaker 1: to sign a non disclosure agreement? Answer? I think the
14:14
Speaker 1: subject of NDAs I'm going to refer to my council,
14:17
Speaker 1: Miss Estrich. We're not going to get into DA's without
14:20
Speaker 1: admitting the existence of any Every confidential agreement I've ever
14:24
Speaker 1: seen in my long career has included confidentiality clauses that
14:28
Speaker 1: buy mister Black as well as the women that were
14:30
Speaker 1: involved Brignac. They don't bind them from Congress Estrich, will
14:34
Speaker 1: they bind them from transcribed interview? As I understand it,
14:37
Speaker 1: this is not a subpoena. He has not received a subpoena,
14:40
Speaker 1: and we're treating this as a voluntary exercise in which
14:43
Speaker 1: mister Black is here voluntarily to help the committee. But
14:46
Speaker 1: we cannot get into DAS. I would ask if you
14:49
Speaker 1: can move on to another question, mister Ashworth. So he's
14:53
Speaker 1: not even going to answer questions about the existence of
14:55
Speaker 1: an NDA or whether or not not even the substance,
15:00
Speaker 1: and he's also not going to answer questions about the
15:02
Speaker 1: actions related to individuals who there may be an NDA
15:06
Speaker 1: related to Miss Estrich, will answer any questions we can.
15:10
Speaker 1: But as you well know from your experience, if there
15:13
Speaker 1: were to be an NDA, it would have a confidentiality
15:16
Speaker 1: clause that would buy mister Black in a situation like this,
15:19
Speaker 1: Miss Ashworth. But it's your position that the confidentiality prevents
15:23
Speaker 1: them from even discussing the existence of an NDA, Miss Estrich.
15:28
Speaker 1: That's what every NDA I've ever seen in my career requires,
15:31
Speaker 1: Miss Ashworth. I think I would disagree with that, Estrich.
15:35
Speaker 1: But in the terms of the settlement agreement, if there
15:37
Speaker 1: is one, the existence of any such agreement, we're not
15:40
Speaker 1: even allowed when you have an NDA to even talk
15:43
Speaker 1: about the existence of an agreement in the absence of
15:46
Speaker 1: process in judicial review and the like. So we're going
15:49
Speaker 1: to try to abide by our confidentiality obligations while helping
15:52
Speaker 1: the committee in any way we can. All right, folks,
15:56
Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here and in the
15:58
Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to finish this bad boy off.
16:01
Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
16:04
Speaker 1: found in the description box.