Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / How To Develop a Sales Process with Matt Ryder

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How To Develop a Sales Process with Matt Ryder · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:00
  3, 2, 1, 0, ignition.
• 0:06
  Lift off.
• 0:09
  Ending small business failure.
• 0:11
  Welcome to the small biz chat podcast with the number 1 small business expert, Melinda
• 0:17
  Emerson.
• 0:18
  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 0:23
  you need succeed and live the life you dream of.
• 0:26
  Now here's your host, the small Biz chat lady herself, Melinda Emerson.
• 0:34
  Have you subscribed to the small bizchett podcast?
• 0:37
  Well, it's time every Wednesday we offer listeners bite sized actionable tips to start
• 0:43
  and grow a successful small business.
• 0:45
  And just 20 minutes or so a week you can get a ton of insight and resources to propel your
• 0:52
  business forward.
• 0:53
  Be sure to subscribe to the small beachhead podcast today.
• 1:00
  Hi, everybody.
• 1:01
  Thank you all for joining us on the small business chat podcast.
• 1:04
  Hopefully, you're watching us on my small bus lady YouTube channel or on my small bus lady
• 1:10
  Facebook page.
• 1:11
  Be sure to share and like and leave a comment.
• 1:14
  Or if you have an idea for a topic for an upcoming episode, leave that for us as well.
• 1:20
  We wanna make sure we give you what you need to succeed in business.
• 1:25
  Now it's time for me to introduce my guest, Matt Ryder.
• 1:29
  He's a former special forces serviceman founder of sales sniper and currently serves as the CEO
• 1:36
  of the 7th level group.
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  Matt's rapid ascent in high ticket sales showcased his unique approach, which was his
• 1:44
  adoption of NEPQ, the 7th level method, which quickly propelled him to a consistent 100 k per
• 1:52
  month within 90 days.
• 1:54
  With a global reach, Matt oversees sales teams and our passionately ensures broad access to
• 2:01
  transformative training.
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  His CEO role at 7th level reflects his commitment to empowering individuals in all
• 2:08
  aspects of life.
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  Through valuable tools, training, and strategies.
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  For more information, go to 7thlevelhq.com.
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  Matt, welcome to the small business chat podcast.
• 2:21
  Hello.
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  Nice to be here.
• 2:22
  Thank you so much.
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  Well, I really appreciate you because you're joining us all the way from Australia.
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  So I know it's early where you are.
• 2:30
  So think turn the camera upside down and everything.
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  Well, thank you so much.
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  So tell us a little bit about you.
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  How did you become this this sales beast?
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  Right?
• 2:42
  Yeah.
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  So I was in I was in special, you know, was in high school and then, went to university.
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  I was I was gonna be a doctor and then, decided about 6 months in that I I would rather the
• 2:53
  army.
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  I went to my parents, chagrin, and then so, dropped out, joined the military, and then
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  ended up going into special operations and then became a sniper, did that for a number of years
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  and got deployed and did the thing that young twenty year old men do in the military.
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  And then from there when I got out, sort of opened, Owen became a personal trainer because
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  when you get out of the military, you've only got 2 options.
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  Become a call for a personal trainer.
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  So it shows personal trainer.
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  Right?
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  And then, after that ended up opening up a gym, ended up opening up, 17 more of them with a
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  sort of, like, small conglomerate of business partners.
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  We had, yeah, we had, like, a 120 staff.
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  And from there, it became a relatively disenfranchised with how the business was sort
• 3:40
  of, operating in terms of its its sort of, treatment of people and you know, some some
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  other things like that.
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  And so I basically sold my share sort of borderline walked away from it.
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  Just before COVID.
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  And what I was doing in that organization was I was really focusing on the opening of the new,
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  facilities and then doing all sales and teaching the sales and and and kind of ensuring
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  that the the front end money kept coming in.
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  So I was selling basically for about 10 years, I was selling probably 5 to 6 days a week for 7
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  to 8 hours a day.
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  You know, just making sure that we had enough memberships to come through.
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  And then from there, when I when I transitioned out of that, I started my own business because
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  I didn't really have much.
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  I'd invested everything in the business.
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  We sort of sold, but sort of walked away.
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  We didn't get that much for it because I really wanted out.
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  And so we didn't have much money and my my wife was pregnant with my second child and So I was
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  like, well, I guess I'll just do my own thing.
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  And so ended up sort of cold calling gyms.
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  And going like, hey.
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  I'm pretty good at fitness sales.
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  And they were like, yep.
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  And so I ended up, doing fitness sales for people's, you know, and then I ended up sort of
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  calling a lot of gyms and getting a lot of clients doing that, because it's a very unique
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  skill set, selling fitness over the phone.
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  There's so many people that can actually do and and so after a while ended up having a, like,
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  an international slew of clients, and I was starting selling at 5 o'clock in the morning,
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  and then I would sort of time zone hop across the world.
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  So I would I would sell, like, US, and I would sell Australia, and then I would sell back to
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  US and then to UK in the evening, and then I would come back in the morning and go back to
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  Australia.
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  So from, like, 5 AM, 6 AM to, like, 11 PM.
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  Wow.
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  Hey, Sydney's an expensive place.
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  So you know, nice things cost nice things money.
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  Right?
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  So you gotta do the things that you gotta do.
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  And then from there, ended up sort of, the marketing companies who were doing sales for
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  the gym, got in touch with me, and they were like, hey.
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  What are you doing?
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  This is, unique.
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  And they sent sent me a lot of clients, and so I started building that site out And then the
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  marketing companies eventually came to me and asked me to do their sales for them.
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  And by this time, I had, like, a team of people, and I was sort of building everything
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  out the way that I won to build things out and setting everything up from an ecosystem
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  standpoint.
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  Mhmm.
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  To where it was a relatively optimized machine and fairly profitable.
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  And there weren't many leads that were getting waste I was used to spending my own money on
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  leads.
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  Right?
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  So, so then I started doing the sales for the marketing companies and then, like, the
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  business coaches, the marketing companies came to me What are you doing?
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  And that's how I sort of got into, like, the more, like, higher ticket sort of, consultancy
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  type space where I was like, selling those kind of services.
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  When I was doing that, I became quite successful.
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  I was doing fairly well, and then I ran into a guy called Jeremy Minor who had a, like, sort
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  of sales methodology called NEPQ.
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  I've I I paid him 80% of everything that I had to coach Melinda then, and then, over the
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  course of about 9 months, I I sort of dove very deep and very obsessively into his methodology
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  be became quite hammered with it because it was very different to what I was used to.
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  It was very leaned out, very subtle, very, strategic but a phenomenal experience for the
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  prospect.
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  I saw my personal income go go a lot higher, go sort of into the 7 figures as like a commission
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  only closer.
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  And then started seeing my team do a lot better as well.
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  And then eventually became his sales guy, then eventually, became business partner and CEO,
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  and we've been we've we've we've been sort of doing the thing for a while now.
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  You know, and that's we we have a couple of different you know, sales sniper so that that
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  done for you side still still goes.
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  We do the sales for we're generally under an NDA for some people that you definitely know.
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  So we sort of run the sales for them and we train, manage, develop the sales processes.
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  Architect the system.
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  And then from there, like, we provide our own reps, you know, to actually do that for them,
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  and it's like an external sales function.
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  And one of the good things is that at 7th level, we have a tremendous capability of
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  finding sales reps.
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  We average about four and a half to 5000 new customers per month.
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  In a wide range of services.
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  So, like, we we have a large ecosystem of salespeople.
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  So that's basically it.
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  That's that's it in a nutshell.
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  That sounds really impressive.
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  So tell me what are the elements of a strong sales process?
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  You build sales process for companies big and small.
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  So what does everybody need to have?
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  Yeah.
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  It it's it's funny.
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  Like, I've built sales processes for banks, you know, for, you know, companies worth
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  $12,000,000,000, and we've done it for companies that do $50,000 a month in revenue.
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  Sort of everything in between.
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  And I think the key thing is that you you have to understand the the journey and the
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  experience that the prospect's gonna go through.
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  And then they they can't all be the same.
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  I I sort of go back and I think one of the reasons why I had a unique ability to to do
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  this was because as a sniper, like, you know, you have to understand every variable because
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  they're relatively important.
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  So if you're, like, the direction you're shooting, the elevation you're shooting, the
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  temperature outside, you know, the wind, the distance, etcetera, there are a lot of
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  variables that would affect it.
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  And so For me, every single time, no matter what I did, I always set up a tracking system
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  to be able to minimize variables because I wanted to work on the things that were actually
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  important.
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  Whereas a lot of people, they they don't track and they don't set up data in a way where it's
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  actually effective.
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  They just set it up to have a pretty dashboard, look at it, and then say, why don't I have
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  enough money at the end of the month?
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  But in reality, there are a lot of small nuances, and small differences that, setting up
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  a sales process to accurately track and to have, like, a bespoke like, a bespoke way,
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  process for someone to go through depending on where they came from.
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  Like, I'll give you an example.
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  Like, you you wouldn't treat an inbound lead the same way that you would treat a referral
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  the same way that you would treat an email the same way you would treat a website inquiry.
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  Like, they can all go into similar pathways, but they it needs to be explored that they're a
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  potential that they should be different.
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  Some sales processes need to be intentionally extended to add friction points and potential
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  drop off in order figure out what's going right and wrong.
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  Some can and then from there, you can be shortened.
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  Right?
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  Ideal.
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  Everyone just, you know, you pick up the phone or you meet person once and you get a bunch of
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  money out of it.
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  Like, that's not reality.
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  So what we need to do is find, like, what is the right amount of time?
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  And, what are the things they need to experience in order to put the salesperson and
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  the business in a position to be able to have a high, percentage or likelihood of converting
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  the right people, which is another really important.
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  So having really clear client avatars and like that.
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  But it's really about mapping out the ideal process, figuring out what they need to see.
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  And then from there, figuring out what are the friction points, so potential drop offs, and
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  then putting in a tracking system in place, and then, being able to then delineate the skill
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  based activities along the way and the process based activities.
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  I can give you a quick example of that.
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  So let's just say we're doing outbound dialing and the and the and then the prospect picks up
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  and then we talk to them.
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  So the outbound dial is obviously one thing.
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  The pickup is another, sort of, like, decision point.
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  They can pick up or they cannot pick up.
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  Right?
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  There there's a plenty of things that you can do to increase pickup rate.
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  You know, A 2P compliance, local area dialing, speed to lead, etcetera.
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  There are there are a lot of things there that would affect the pickup rate.
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  And then from there, if somebody picks up, there are 3 options.
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  There's a voice mail.
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  There's, hey, please go away and don't ever call me again or call me later.
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  And then there's a conversation.
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  Right?
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  The first one, the actual pickup is a process based because there are things that you can do
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  from a back end standpoint that would make that more effective.
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  It's not a skill.
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  Okay?
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  But then the the the once someone's picked up, the conversation versus go away rate, that is a
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  skill thing.
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  And it's a skill that's specific to the opening line of the script.
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  And so if someone and that is a top of funnel sort of activity, and so if you get someone
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  much or that, they will have a tremendous amount more people that go through the entire
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  process.
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  Therefore, you'll make more sales by proxy without that person really having to get any
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  better.
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  And everyone's running around in sales training Melinda.
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  We're trying to get better at handling objections, but in reality, they have no idea
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  what they're good at or bad at.
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  And so a good sales process creates an ideal scenario for the prospect, but it also
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  facilitates a system where a salesperson, a sales manager, and a business can identify the
• 12:29
  failings of the process and the failings of the individual who's doing it and then put things
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  in place to tangibly fix it step by step.
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  So you're saying that sometimes it's the system.
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  Sometimes it's the sales rep, but the point is you gotta be tracking everything.
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  Is that what you're saying?
• 12:46
  Yeah.
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  I think I think that the the key is to make things probably unnecessarily complex in the
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  beginning and then simplify them as you go.
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  You know, in in in terms of your actual tracking, like, if you track everything, you
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  can figure out what's not worth tracking.
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  The issue is if you you don't know what's worth tracking.
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  And it's not that I know it's worth tracking, but I know how to figure out what is worth
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  tracking over time.
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  Like, I never would have thought a year ago that, that the, total delinquency rate credit
• 13:18
  cards in the United States would have affected my business.
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  However, it does.
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  I've done the analysis.
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  The two big things that really affect us as a business to consumer business of a high volume
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  clientele.
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  1 is housing prices and 2 is equity rates because recently a lot of funding people have
• 13:36
  brought in, after speaking with our with with funding partners, they've brought in a debt to
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  equity ratio is one of the key factors instead of just income and credit.
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  So what does that mean to me?
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  I can do an analysis, and I can say, what are the highest What are the lowest debt to equity
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  ratio people in America?
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  A lot of the time, it's like twenty nine to thirty nine year old males.
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  Why?
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  Because they've just started their family.
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  They just bought their house.
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  They haven't paid any of it all.
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  Right?
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  So in marketing, we we can sort of start to use that to our advantage, and we can start to put
• 14:05
  them down different pathways and know what I mean?
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  Sort of segment people out based on demographics because you get all that kind of
• 14:11
  stuff for marketing and then show people different things.
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  And then you can have a higher efficacy rate of your sales because you're showing them a more
• 14:18
  appropriate product for the economic time.
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  And
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  so, like, I I didn't know that.
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  A year ago.
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  You know, and so after doing the analysis, you know, there's another one.
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  I I wouldn't have thought that a 2 pay would have a lower fulfillment rate than the 3 pay,
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  but it does buy a fairly significant margin in our business.
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  So if
• 14:36
  you don't offer 2 pays, so, you know, there's there's all there's all kinds of stuff.
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  Like, you just don't know what you don't know.
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  And so by by tracking as much as you can, And the good thing is with things like chat GPT
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  these days, they have an automatic data analysis tool, and there's a few other things
• 14:52
  that you can that you can do to you know, streamline a few things if you don't have a
• 14:55
  large team like I do.
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  But, you know, I think that the, like, the more you can track and then sit down and spend the
• 15:03
  time and try and find some correlative patterns and and think how a lazy man thinks, which is
• 15:08
  like, what's the least amount of things that I could possibly change?
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  To, to to have a really positive impact and influence on what's going on.
• 15:18
  Well, what about developing your sales goals?
• 15:21
  How do you suggest people go about doing that?
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  I I think it depends on the business, but if if I had to speak to, like, the sort of more,
• 15:28
  like, entrepreneur type person, I would say the the way that I recommend doing it is first of
• 15:33
  all, what do you want to take out of the business?
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  That's a very important metric that people don't really talk about very much.
• 15:39
  Much money do you want to make?
• 15:40
  Let's just say it's a, like, 500 k, whatever it is.
• 15:43
  Right?
• 15:43
  I wanna I wanna take them 500 k.
• 15:45
  Alright.
• 15:45
  Cool.
• 15:45
  What would the business need to make in order for me do that given my historicals, not like
• 15:51
  some pie in the sky number.
• 15:53
  Right?
• 15:53
  And then from there, like, that becomes my revenue projection for the year.
• 15:58
  Right.
• 15:58
  And then I kind of work that back month by month, knowing this sort of growth curve or if
• 16:04
  I'm not growing that year, if I am growing that year.
• 16:07
  And then from there, break that down line item by line item.
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  For me, what I do is I break that down and I create the forecast and the budget.
• 16:14
  Based off that.
• 16:15
  And then, the sales targets that they usually get are about 5% higher than that.
• 16:22
  Depending on the size that that that we're sort of doing, it can be anywhere from 2 to 5.
• 16:27
  Sometimes 5 is an awful lot of money, and it just sort of becomes a on Tenable, but that's
• 16:31
  also the number that need to hit in order to get their bonuses.
• 16:34
  So, yeah.
• 16:37
  So, like, and and and and then that is a number that's deconflicted against, like, customer
• 16:42
  service to ensure that we can actually handle that volume of client.
• 16:48
  And and and then we break that down as to sales targets per product.
• 16:53
  And then that is what marketing uses in order to put together the the, like, segmented
• 16:58
  marketing budget and, you know, so that we can sort of market the right products and services.
• 17:03
  So let's talk about how to generate qualified lead because there's
• 17:10
  a
• 17:10
  difference between a marketing qualified lead and a sales qualified lead.
• 17:12
  And how do how do you get from sort of like top of the funnel to a sales qualified lead?
• 17:21
  Yeah.
• 17:21
  So I think the most important thing is understanding your client avatar for each
• 17:25
  product there's obviously, like, an overarching client avatar for the entire business.
• 17:29
  And then from there, they're like, if you have multiple products or if you have one product,
• 17:32
  it's really simple, but like, we have very, very defined and distinct, client avatars for
• 17:37
  each product, and that's based on, you know, survey data focus groups that we've done with
• 17:41
  clients, etcetera, etcetera.
• 17:42
  And then also, you know, payment fulfillment rates and all that kind of good stuff.
• 17:45
  And then from there, we create, marketing mechanisms to, like, disqualify.
• 17:53
  The reason why we do that because I don't wanna tell everyone to do that is because we have a
• 17:57
  tremendously high lead volume.
• 17:58
  Last last month, we generated 35,000 leads.
• 18:01
  And so, like, we don't want 35,000 people.
• 18:05
  Right?
• 18:05
  So, like, we have a disqualification form of marketing where we bring a lot of people in,
• 18:11
  and then we push them out as we go.
• 18:14
  So and then the sales qualified lead comes in, like, at a particular point, there's a handover
• 18:20
  where they can go down 2 options.
• 18:22
  One is that a person call them to see if they're in the client avatar.
• 18:26
  And then if they are, they'll have a discussion with them and then send them off to a sales
• 18:29
  process.
• 18:30
  So they're like the sort of gray area people.
• 18:32
  Or they have an application form that they'll fill out where, depending on how they answer,
• 18:38
  they get sent different places.
• 18:40
  And so it's really all about defining a client avatar and then, figuring out, what the optimal
• 18:47
  amount of people is.
• 18:48
  And the reason why you would change that, like, I think that that on a principled stance is a
• 18:53
  good way to do it, but you don't wanna disqualify people a lot of people like we do if
• 18:58
  you don't have an awful lot of leads.
• 19:00
  And if my lead flow dropped to say 10,000 leads, right, for, like, like, for this month,
• 19:05
  I would push a lot more people through and have the sales team do the sifting instead of having
• 19:11
  the marketing team.
• 19:12
  And the less opportunity that you have, the further you push the sifting towards the sales,
• 19:18
  the more opportunity you have, the further away from the sales you push the sifting.
• 19:21
  If that makes sense, because you wanna be full with the highest possible quality lead, but be
• 19:30
  full.
• 19:31
  So if there's 1 month where they're full of people who are a 2 out of 10, hey.
• 19:35
  At least you're full.
• 19:36
  And if there's 1 month where you're full with 4 out of with a with, like, a 9 out of 10.
• 19:41
  Fantastic home run.
• 19:42
  Everyone's happy as Larry.
• 19:44
  So it's really a kind of variable metric that's that's based on opportunity.
• 19:48
  But it's really important that those client avatars are dialed in so that you can have a
• 19:52
  very, very clear distinction of who should be sold, what, and then have that conversation
• 19:58
  each sort of month or each quarter based on opportunity and volume on on on how you're
• 20:03
  pushing those people through.
• 20:05
  I wanna switch gears with you a little bit and talk about how to hire a great salesperson
• 20:10
  because I think this is a big challenge for a small business.
• 20:15
  Especially because there's season small business out the small Emerson sales experts
• 20:20
  out here There's newbies just out of school.
• 20:23
  You know, what is what is the best sort of like Emerson avatar that you could go after?
• 20:30
  Yeah.
• 20:31
  It's it's a difficult one because everybody wants, you know, sales killers.
• 20:36
  Right?
• 20:38
  But I think the first thing you should do is take an actual audit of what you're offering.
• 20:45
  And I know that you love your business, and I know that, like, that's great, but you probably
• 20:51
  aren't at a stage where a really good sales rep will consider you.
• 20:57
  That's right.
• 20:58
  So, like having Melinda a very in demand salesperson myself, I would only choose the the
• 21:06
  the absolute belt.
• 21:07
  Like, if you only have one marketing channel, I would never sell for you.
• 21:12
  Right?
• 21:12
  Like, if you're relying only on meta, sorry, if you don't have a comprehensive content
• 21:17
  strategy, sorry, if you don't have, like, multiple tiered pro Sorry.
• 21:21
  If I if I can't call your clients and have them have a good experience, sorry.
• 21:25
  Right?
• 21:25
  The reason being is because they're a hell of a lot more businesses than there are good
• 21:29
  salespeople.
• 21:30
  Right?
• 21:30
  So, salespeople for lack of a better term or at the hot chick at the bar.
• 21:35
  And it will always be that way.
• 21:37
  And so you want to set up your business to not require a rock star.
• 21:41
  And if you do, there's something wrong.
• 21:44
  So, and getting a rock star early can actually be a real problem.
• 21:51
  I have been 2 businesses that I was the Emerson.
• 21:53
  And when I left, they went bankrupt.
• 21:56
  Within about 6 to 7 months because I was selling an awful lot of people.
• 21:59
  They made the assumption their marketing was good, and I would tell them, hey.
• 22:02
  This marketing need a real a real revamp.
• 22:04
  This isn't good.
• 22:05
  I'm just good at creating a comprehensive strategy that sort of picks up all of the slack
• 22:09
  for poor marketing, but they didn't know what I was doing.
• 22:13
  Because I was doing it myself.
• 22:15
  And so I I'm because I've owned my own businesses and I'm very dodder and process
• 22:20
  driven.
• 22:20
  And so And for me, I I I I found it quite scary to put somebody else's, like, to put my
• 22:28
  livelihood for my kids and my wife somebody else's hands in the marketing department.
• 22:32
  So I would do an awful lot of stuff to really generate more leads in the ecosystem and get
• 22:37
  the CRM and all all just do all kinds of things like that.
• 22:40
  And and so, the the the key would be, like, do an assessment, figure out where you're at, and
• 22:46
  don't set up for a unicorn because if you do get 1 and and you don't take the feedback of
• 22:52
  like, hey.
• 22:52
  This marketing isn't good, then you expect somebody else to come you make your KPIs what
• 22:56
  that person was doing.
• 22:57
  But Steph Curry be doing Steph Curry things.
• 23:00
  You know, you can't get a guy off the bench to come in and be Steph Curry.
• 23:03
  Like, it just doesn't work that way.
• 23:05
  Right?
• 23:05
  And so, like, you just give that guy the bow and he makes magic happen.
• 23:08
  Like, that's just what it is.
• 23:09
  And if you get one of those guys early, it will it will destroy a few things.
• 23:13
  Because you will expect that Emerson, and you'll be chasing it.
• 23:17
  And so set the business up to be appropriate for the level of rep that you want.
• 23:22
  A sales rep will not come in and design your sales process.
• 23:25
  It is not their job, and the person who can do that will leave quickly.
• 23:31
  Because they're a rocket ship on the way up.
• 23:34
  Right?
• 23:34
  So if you're expecting that, then just hire a professional set up your sales process and then
• 23:39
  bring a person into a process that's cogent and make sense.
• 23:43
  The second thing is, like, you know, figure out if you're going high reward, high risk or low
• 23:50
  reward, low risk.
• 23:50
  Are you going base plus commissions?
• 23:53
  Are you going commission only?
• 23:54
  There's obviously, I, you know, there's there's obviously HR considerations that in in terms
• 24:00
  of, like, what it is they're doing and where they're doing it.
• 24:01
  But, you know, most people who are really good are gonna want a higher risk model because they
• 24:08
  back their skills.
• 24:10
  And then from there, it's about So once you have that ecosystem, I like to interview.
• 24:18
  I don't think qualifications mean, much right now when it comes to sales.
• 24:22
  Right?
• 24:23
  If they have any PQ, obviously, they're better.
• 24:25
  Right?
• 24:27
  You know, which is what we sell.
• 24:30
  But I like to give a little bit of pushback until the Emerson, I think that they're not
• 24:34
  right for the job and see what happens.
• 24:37
  And then I I, I also like to just ensure that they have the right attributes and that they're
• 24:43
  ethical and all that kind of stuff.
• 24:44
  And, but it's very difficult to tell that.
• 24:47
  And you know, salespeople are like sort of used sports cars.
• 24:50
  They they can look really nice in the lot, but, you know, it's not to start driving it that
• 24:53
  you're really gonna make sure.
• 24:55
  So I tend to overhire.
• 24:56
  And then from there, like, we cut back with salespeople, but definitely give them something
• 25:00
  that they need to object to.
• 25:03
  So I I would say, hey, man.
• 25:04
  Like, this has been a really good conversation.
• 25:06
  I just I just I'm just not a 100% convinced that you're right for the that you're right fit
• 25:10
  for the job.
• 25:11
  And then just see what happens.
• 25:12
  If they go, oh, well, that's unfortunate.
• 25:14
  They're not a very good salesperson.
• 25:16
  If they actually sort of like, oh, well, help me understand that.
• 25:19
  What do you and they actually go and try and, like, rebut and and sort of handle your
• 25:23
  objection, then chances are it's worth giving him
• 25:26
  a show.
• 25:27
  I love it.
• 25:28
  I love it.
• 25:29
  When we come back on the small beach chat podcast, we're gonna talk more about sales and
• 25:33
  how we can all get better.
• 25:34
  You're watching the small beach chat podcast I'm Melinda Emerson, your host, and we will be
• 25:40
  right back.
• 25:42
  Hi.
• 25:42
  I'm Melinda Emerson's
• 25:43
  small biz lady, and I'm welcome you to small business lady university.
• 25:48
  Our mission here is to end small business failure.
• 25:50
  So all of
• 25:50
  the courses here are about 2 things.
• 25:55
  How to become your own boss or how to make money online.
• 25:59
  So that's what we do here.
• 26:00
  So whether you wanna learn about email, marketing, and sales funnels, or you're ready
• 26:06
  to get started with social media selling, or if you're really just getting started with
• 26:10
  ecommerce, you might wanna jump into our how to sell and market online course Either way, if
• 26:16
  you want to learn how to become your own boss and do it well, I have everything you need here
• 26:22
  at Small Bizzley university.com.
• 26:24
  If you have any questions or have any technical problems getting signed up, just email us at
• 26:30
  support Melinda.
• 26:33
  Take care.
• 26:39
  Welcome back to the small biz chat podcast.
• 26:41
  I'm Melinda Emerson, your host, and we're talking with Matt Ryder about all things sales
• 26:45
  and how we can all get better.
• 26:47
  Alright, Matt.
• 26:48
  Talk to me about leads.
• 26:50
  Like, how many leads should a professional service business, for example, be bringing in
• 26:57
  every week?
• 26:59
  Probably the exact amount that the data says they need to to hit their sales targets, I
• 27:01
  would say.
• 27:02
  So, It's it's it's actually it it it's actually a, like, a format.
• 27:09
  Have you ever heard the the the the term m I n d?
• 27:13
  It's most important numbers and drivers for usually goes along with KPIs and OKRs and all
• 27:17
  the other fantastic TLAs, which stands for 3 letter acronym, obviously.
• 27:18
  So It's it's a really good system, that allows you to kind of figure out exact all the numbers
• 27:31
  that need to be hit based off like historicals or some pretty good assumptions.
• 27:36
  And so it starts off with your revenue target, you know, like we spoke about earlier.
• 27:40
  And then from there, let's just say, like, I'm gonna break down from lead source a.
• 27:45
  Let's say we wanna get, you know, we need to generate x amount of dollars, like a
• 27:49
  $1,000,000.
• 27:50
  Right?
• 27:50
  And let's just say it's a $10,000 sale.
• 27:53
  So I need to do, well, like a 1000 sales or something like that.
• 27:55
  I'm I'm not good at math.
• 27:57
  So be at the I'd be like, let's just say I'm just gonna go with a 100 sales because easy.
• 28:01
  Now if I need to make a 100 sales, then, let's say our closers, our sales team closes at 50%,
• 28:07
  so I need 200 sales goals to show up.
• 28:10
  Okay?
• 28:11
  Then from there to get 200 sales calls to show up because we're not gonna have a 100% show up
• 28:16
  rate.
• 28:17
  I'm just gonna use another easy number.
• 28:18
  Let's say it's a 75% show up rate.
• 28:21
  So have, what, 300 bookings.
• 28:23
  Right?
• 28:23
  So 300 bookings is 200 show up is, you know, or would that be 66% Emerson then, and then, and
• 28:30
  then is a 50% close rate.
• 28:31
  So then we make our 100 sales.
• 28:34
  Right?
• 28:34
  So, and then from there, it'd be like, alright.
• 28:37
  Cool.
• 28:37
  Whatever.
• 28:38
  Let's just say that they're they're booking in straight from like a, you know, from a, like, a
• 28:43
  application form.
• 28:44
  Well, how many people need to fill out the application form?
• 28:47
  In order to get to 300 bookings.
• 28:49
  Let's just say 600.
• 28:51
  Okay.
• 28:51
  And then it's how many people need to get into, like, page a.
• 28:57
  To see that application form.
• 28:59
  Let's just say it's, 3000.
• 29:02
  Okay.
• 29:02
  And then from there, to get 3000 to get to that application form, how many, you know, people
• 29:08
  need to, click through to the ad to get to the page.
• 29:12
  Right?
• 29:13
  And then from there, it's just a way backwards.
• 29:14
  Like, what's the click through rate?
• 29:16
  And then from there, it's like, okay.
• 29:17
  Well, what's our average, cost per click?
• 29:20
  So now we have a budget for that particular campaign.
• 29:22
  How often do we have to rotate the ad creative?
• 29:24
  On a high spend month, you have to rotate a creative a lot.
• 29:27
  Right?
• 29:28
  Like, I think last month, we spent $846,000 on paid advertising.
• 29:32
  So, Like, that there's a lot of ad creative that goes into that because we had a
• 29:36
  particularly high month because of a, like, an event.
• 29:39
  We had, like, a 20,000 person event.
• 29:41
  So, So, you know, like, all that kind of stuff.
• 29:44
  And so then from there, you basically have from that channel based off your historicals exactly
• 29:49
  how many people you need to get through the sale process and then exactly many people, how
• 29:52
  many leads you need in order to facilitate that.
• 29:55
  And so it goes back to what we were talking about before.
• 29:57
  You just wanna be full.
• 30:00
  And so be as full as you can be.
• 30:03
  And I don't like to delineate really good leads and bad leads because you know, especially if
• 30:08
  it's a financial qualification because money is title.
• 30:11
  There are times where I've been quite doing quite well.
• 30:13
  There are times that when I've not been doing well, there's also times where I'm doing well
• 30:16
  where I have more cash or less cash depending on investment, reinvestment, like, whatever it
• 30:21
  may be.
• 30:21
  Right?
• 30:22
  And so I like to create pipelines and conversations are one of the best ways to do
• 30:27
  that.
• 30:28
  And I don't think that, one of my biggest bug bears and fire anybody or don't hire anybody
• 30:34
  that says this who says that tote, like, oh, those leads aren't worth my time.
• 30:39
  It's like, 1st of all, everyone's of the same value.
• 30:42
  I don't care how much money you have that really doesn't have a bearing on how much value
• 30:45
  you have as a person.
• 30:46
  And second of all, like, you know, if I'd talk to them, why wouldn't you?
• 30:51
  It's like, you know, they might buy in 6 months.
• 30:53
  And if your product or service is genuinely a net good and it and it really helps people
• 30:59
  because all businesses just kind of either fulfill an emotional need or solve a problem
• 31:02
  and hopefully do it out of profit.
• 31:05
  Then give that person the opportunity to to see what you do because you might solve a serious
• 31:09
  problem and maybe they can't buy it there and then It doesn't mean that they can't buy it in
• 31:13
  3, 6 or 12 months, and that's how successful businesses and salespeople create pipelines of
• 31:20
  lots of people who wanna who want to, do business with them because they are talking to
• 31:25
  people and they are out there.
• 31:26
  And, you know, the more people you talk to, the more likelihood you have of of of having
• 31:31
  people, either think you're a moron or think you're good enough at your job to where they
• 31:35
  wanna do business with you.
• 31:37
  Alright, Matt.
• 31:38
  Tell me the best business advice you've ever been given.
• 31:47
  So my one of my one of my mentors or my my main mentor is a guy is a guy called Kim Manley, who
• 31:53
  was the CEO of Smirnoff.
• 31:56
  And, he he the best advice he ever gave me was that you will never make truly good business
• 32:03
  decisions until you independently wealthy of the business.
• 32:09
  And so that that really stuck with me because I think, like, the I was very much in the in the
• 32:17
  mode for a long time of this constant reinvestment back into the business of all the
• 32:24
  money because I I had this vision of, like, creating this monster.
• 32:28
  And listen, I have a pretty big business.
• 32:31
  However, during that time, like, the amount that I foregoed personally, I think looking
• 32:38
  back was over the top and the only people who really benefited the only people who that
• 32:43
  really detracted from was my family.
• 32:46
  And so and also what and also like my staff and myself as well, because because of I need the
• 32:53
  business for money, it's very difficult for me to make the right decision for the business.
• 33:02
  There's a reason why Bob Eiger's worth $90,000,000 is the reason why CEOs are paid so
• 33:07
  much money.
• 33:08
  And it's it's it's it's a lot of it is really to insulate their need for the money.
• 33:14
  If you're paid $50,000,000 a year, you're pretty good 3 months in.
• 33:19
  Right?
• 33:20
  Right?
• 33:20
  Like, you're you're pretty fine.
• 33:23
  And so if you need the business for money, you will always make a more employee mindset
• 33:29
  decision.
• 33:31
  So, once I sort of once I sort of, at least for me, figured that out, I I was able to structure
• 33:37
  the business in a way where I was able to make, a a good, very, I would say, healthy amount of
• 33:42
  personal income, bring it to someone who really knows what they're doing, you know, like a
• 33:48
  management Emerson.
• 33:49
  And then from there, you know, generate a a pretty significant income outside of the
• 33:57
  business, which then freed me up to really make fairly, you know, money agnostic business
• 34:03
  decisions, which is just sort of, you know, taking me from working 50 to 60 hours a week to
• 34:08
  work in 20 to 25 and having the business be kind of more efficient than whatever has been
• 34:13
  and profitable.
• 34:14
  So
• 34:15
  Love it.
• 34:16
  Love it.
• 34:16
  Matt, thank you so much for being here all the way from Australia.
• 34:20
  I so appreciate you.
• 34:22
  And you have really given us so much great information.
• 34:26
  And with that, I wanna leave you with this.
• 34:28
  You never lose in business either you win or you learn.
• 34:32
  God bless everybody.
• 34:40
  Thanks for listening to the small biz chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 34:44
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us next Wednesday for more
• 34:50
  fantastic information and interviews.
• 34:52
  You can find more sources and small business success strategies by visiting Melinda's
• 34:57
  website succeed as your own boss dot com.
• 35:00
  Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next week.