Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOY, 4, VANISHES 5 YEARS AGO WITHOUT FAMILY REALIZING: WHERE'S HAYDEN

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BOY, 4, VANISHES 5 YEARS AGO WITHOUT FAMILY REALIZING: WHERE'S HAYDEN · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: A little boy just four vanishes five years ago without
0:14
Speaker 2: family realizing he's gone. Tonight, Where's Hayden? I'm Nancy Grace.
0:22
Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
0:25
Speaker 3: Where is four year old Hayden man Is from Indiana?
0:28
Speaker 3: The young child reportedly last seen at a family Christmas
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Speaker 3: gathering in twenty nineteen. He's not been seen since.
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Speaker 2: Mystery swirling around a little boy just four years.
0:41
Speaker 1: Old at the time he was last seen live.
0:45
Speaker 2: How is it that family doesn't realize he's missing for
0:52
Speaker 2: five years? Police now play catch up in a missing
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Speaker 2: child case. Let it sink in. Four year old Hayden
1:02
Speaker 2: was last seen at a Christmas gathering five years ago.
1:09
Speaker 2: Any and all leeds are probably cold by now. How
1:13
Speaker 2: can we find Hayden? Let's see pictures of Hayden right now?
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Speaker 2: This is all coming out of Munsey, Indiana. This four
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Speaker 2: year old little boy, last scene five years ago. Hayden
1:29
Speaker 2: Ian Lee Manus joining me an all star panel to
1:33
Speaker 2: make sense of what we are hearing tonight.
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Speaker 1: That is from the Awareness Ink on Facebook.
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Speaker 2: Everybody, if you want to find out more about Hayden
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Speaker 2: and how you can help find him. Is Hayden Mannus,
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Speaker 2: age four, Indiana.
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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this.
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Speaker 4: Recent reports of a missing child have many monthsy Indiana
1:55
Speaker 4: residents asking how does a little boy disappear without anyone realizing?
1:59
Speaker 4: For nearly five years, Hayden Manus, now just a few
2:03
Speaker 4: months from his tenth birthday, was last seen in early
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Speaker 4: twenty twenty. The little boy believed to be living with
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Speaker 4: his father, Dustin Manus, but a chance run in between
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Speaker 4: two relatives reveals Mannus has told several conflicting stories about
2:16
Speaker 4: Hayden's whereabouts.
2:17
Speaker 2: Joining me in All Star Palell, But first I want
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Speaker 2: to go to Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us. He is
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Speaker 2: the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security. He leads
2:29
Speaker 2: a team of highly trained investigator specializing and finding missing
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Speaker 2: people at Uspasecurity dot Com. Brian in a nutshell, This
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Speaker 2: trail is so cold, but Crime Stories is not giving up.
2:47
Speaker 1: On trying to find out where is Hayden?
2:50
Speaker 2: Why does every hour, the hour, the minutes actually matter?
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Speaker 2: And now we're looking at five years before the family
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Speaker 2: realizes he's it is saying, I mean.
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Speaker 5: So often, Nancy, we talk about forty eight hours being
3:05
Speaker 5: a long time in a missing child case. In this case,
3:08
Speaker 5: we're dealing with five years. So we're constructing a new
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Speaker 5: timeline now as this show airs and gets national attention,
3:17
Speaker 5: a new timeline is going to begin of when people
3:20
Speaker 5: connected to this case begin talking about Hayden again.
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Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to Brian fitz Gibbons, an incredible
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Speaker 2: panel joining us tonight special guest Eric Hoffman. He is
3:30
Speaker 2: currently a prosecuting attorney in the forty six Judicial Circuit
3:34
Speaker 2: Indiana and the Delaware County Prosecutor's Office. He has been
3:37
Speaker 2: investigating this case for so long, and because you're in
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Speaker 2: the middle of an ongoing investigation, I understand that your
3:47
Speaker 2: hands are somewhat tied and everything you can say, But
3:50
Speaker 2: let me ask you a few general questions, Eric Hoffman,
3:53
Speaker 2: as fitz Gibbons just told us, literally, it's hard to
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Speaker 2: understand unless you're in the middle of it. Every minute
4:00
Speaker 2: counts when a child goes missing. Just think about if
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Speaker 2: the child's in a car, for instance.
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Speaker 1: Sixty mph, sixty.
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Speaker 2: Miles an hour, that child is getting further and further
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Speaker 2: and further away by the minute.
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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a case before.
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Speaker 2: This one where the family didn't realize the child was
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Speaker 2: missing for five years.
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Speaker 6: No, No, I haven't, Nancy, And I think, as you said,
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Speaker 6: each passing minute, particularly four years, makes the case and
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Speaker 6: the investigation exponentially.
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Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the
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Speaker 2: disappearance of Hayden, please dial Delaware County Sheriff's Department seven
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Speaker 2: sixty five seven four seven seven eight eight five. Now
4:49
Speaker 2: hold on, let's back it up just a moment. Let's
4:52
Speaker 2: back it up.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Crime and Justice reporter from.
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Speaker 2: The Star Press, Douglas Walker, joining us out of Muncy. Douglas,
5:01
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. This case has been
5:04
Speaker 2: consuming you.
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Speaker 7: Why just see very odd circumstances that there would be
5:10
Speaker 7: such an incredible delay in making police aware of the
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Speaker 7: fact that this child is missing. It just appears to
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Speaker 7: baffle people as to how that could even possibly.
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Speaker 1: Happen, you know, Douglas. By the way, guys, you're seeing
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Speaker 1: a little graduation photo.
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Speaker 2: It must have been from pre K pre pre pre
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Speaker 2: K because he went missing at age four. That is
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Speaker 2: from Hayden Manus's family to news outlets, Douglas, I tend
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Speaker 2: to as a crime victim project experiences that I had
5:46
Speaker 2: or crime victims that I represented, practicing law for thirteen years,
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Speaker 2: most of it in intercity Atlanta, prosecuting felonies. But let
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Speaker 2: me tell you, Douglas, not long after the twins were born,
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Speaker 2: they were about nineteen months they just started walking, okay,
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Speaker 2: and we were in one of those giant superstores babies
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Speaker 2: or us, I think it was. And some mom had,
6:12
Speaker 2: you know, guilted me out at the community pool because
6:14
Speaker 2: she made her own organic sunscreen. So I was trying
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Speaker 2: to find organic sun tanlation, right, and I had the
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Speaker 2: twins with me. I was alone with them, and I
6:26
Speaker 2: was on the very bottom shelf and it went from
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Speaker 2: floor all the way to the ceiling practically. And I
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Speaker 2: stood up and I said, well, twins, I don't see
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Speaker 2: anything like that here. And there was Lucy, my little girl,
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Speaker 2: and no John David. I looked around for him. I
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Speaker 2: couldn't find him.
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Speaker 1: I picked Lucy up like a football and started running.
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Speaker 2: I can still hear my tennis shoes on that lineolium
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Speaker 2: floor and screaming, locked the doors, my baby is missing,
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Speaker 2: screaming help me.
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Speaker 1: I didn't wait five years to say John David's missing.
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Speaker 2: I found him. He was playing a game, so I
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Speaker 2: didn't fuss at him. I didn't want to traumatize him.
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Speaker 2: I was traumatized.
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Speaker 1: But five years when did you first learn about this case? Douglas?
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Speaker 7: The family of the missing boy initially took it to
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Speaker 7: an Indianapolis television station. It's my understanding that perhaps sheriff's
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Speaker 7: deputies would have preferred waiting to make things public, but
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Speaker 7: that didn't happen.
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Speaker 1: The wait who wanted to wait to make it public?
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Speaker 7: The Sheriff's department, which is the primary investigator here, had
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Speaker 7: not made an announcement concerning this. They found out that
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Speaker 7: the boy was missing in September and we're investigating, and
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Speaker 7: apparently thought it would be in their best interests to
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Speaker 7: not make an announcement, as they attempted to talk to
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Speaker 7: people somewhat quietly because so much time had passed. So
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Speaker 7: at any rate, I.
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Speaker 2: Think, I say, that is against everything that I know
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Speaker 2: about finding missing people.
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Speaker 1: I don't understand that at all.
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Speaker 2: Eric Hoffman, hypothetically speaking, why would l E law enforcement
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Speaker 2: want to wait to make public a missing child?
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Speaker 6: I think the investigation had just begun. It was September
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Speaker 6: fifth of twenty twenty four. The Sheriff's department brought me
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Speaker 6: in on the case and we discussed it and interviews
8:27
Speaker 6: were ongoing. I think the information was coming in fast
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Speaker 6: at that point. Certain things had to be checked, Certain
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Speaker 6: people's credibility had to be coroborated before we were ready
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Speaker 6: to go public and say this child is missing.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Eric Hoffman, I know that there must be something
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Speaker 2: you're not able to disclose, because when a child is
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Speaker 2: missing and there's a chance to recover the child, that
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Speaker 2: is a pr believe to try to find the child. Now,
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Speaker 2: that's according to my experience and my great mentor, Mark Class,
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Speaker 2: who's daughter Pauli went missing, and he actually school's parents
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Speaker 2: about what to do if their child goes missing, and
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Speaker 2: the number one thing is get it out on the media.
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Speaker 2: But you're telling me, Ellie, law enforcement wanted to wigh
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Speaker 2: witnesses credibility.
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Speaker 1: I'm trying to read between the lines what that could.
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Speaker 2: Possibly mean about not learning everyone that the child was missing.
9:31
Speaker 1: And I know your record.
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Speaker 2: You have an incredible estellar record, so I know you
9:36
Speaker 2: have a reason for going along with this. Can you
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Speaker 2: share that reason or is it confidential?
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Speaker 6: I can't get into too much of the specifics, but
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Speaker 6: I think I would absolutely agree with you. Four years ago.
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Speaker 6: That would be the first thing that we'd want to
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Speaker 6: do is get Hayden's picture on the TV and get
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Speaker 6: his story out there so people could call in. But
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Speaker 6: again we're talking about a four year delay before law
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Speaker 6: enforcement knows anything about it. You have to consider in
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Speaker 6: this investigation, there's really two outcomes, or there's really two
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Speaker 6: possibilities at this point. Is Hayden alive? Is Hayden dead?
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Speaker 6: And so in investigating those two different possibilities, you know
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Speaker 6: the investigation can grow those ways.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Two Douglas Walker joining US Crime and Justice report of
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Speaker 2: the Star Press. Douglas, I just don't understand how the
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Speaker 2: extended family, such as grandparents, aunts and uncles didn't notice. Hey,
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Speaker 2: we haven't seen him, we haven't seen a picture of him.
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Speaker 2: He's not on a Christmas car, he's not at a
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Speaker 2: little preschool graduation.
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Speaker 1: We've got nothing. What they didn't notice.
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Speaker 7: They have described an estrangement with the boy's father, Dustin Manus,
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Speaker 7: describing various situations where they invited him to bring Hayden
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Speaker 7: to their homes at family gatherings, holiday gatherings, things of
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Speaker 7: this nature, and that he would indicate sure that will happen,
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Speaker 7: and then they just simply didn't show up, and as such,
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Speaker 7: the actual family members haven't seen him for five years.
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Speaker 7: I was told that investigators have determined someone being aware
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Speaker 7: of Hayden's presence as recently as the fall of twenty twenty,
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Speaker 7: so four and a half years of nothing.
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Speaker 2: We are hearing from Douglas Walker from the Star Press.
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Speaker 2: There may have been a siding as recently as fall
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Speaker 2: twenty twenty. That makes the time period less right the
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Speaker 2: time he's been missing, and you can extrapolate from that
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Speaker 2: that even though he may not be with his bioppearents
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Speaker 2: that he is alive somewhere. Now, this is my understanding.
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Speaker 2: Let me go straight out to doctor Cheryl Eric.
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Speaker 1: She is a.
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Speaker 2: Licensed clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma recovery. You can
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Speaker 2: find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Eric, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: It's my understanding, and everybody on the panel correct me
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Speaker 2: if I've got this wrong.
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Speaker 1: That the son.
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Speaker 2: Had a falling out with his father, Hayden's grandfather. Okay,
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Speaker 2: they had a falling out. Of course, the son stops
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Speaker 2: out with Hayden, and that that is why the family
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Speaker 2: kind of chalked it off that the son's not bringing
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Speaker 2: Hayden around.
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Speaker 1: That's why they're not seeing him.
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Speaker 2: You know, when families split and they have a problem,
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Speaker 2: there are no more happy Thanksgivings and Christmases together, and
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Speaker 2: very often that's the only time extended family sees the child,
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Speaker 2: the grandchild.
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Speaker 8: That's right, Nancy.
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Speaker 9: And when we unpack this estrangement, I think we have
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Speaker 9: to think about it with the father's addiction in mind,
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Speaker 9: because one of the things we know when people have
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Speaker 9: active addictions to things like meth, cocaine, heroine, these are
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Speaker 9: things that can really interfere with somebody being able to
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Speaker 9: be a safe parent. But one of the other things
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Speaker 9: we see is incredible denial, denial that there's a problem.
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Speaker 9: A lot of times the family wants to believe the
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Speaker 9: best of the person who has the active addiction. And
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Speaker 9: some of what we're hearing is that the estrangement had
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Speaker 9: something to do with him feeling like they were judging
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Speaker 9: him about his addiction. They wanted to take Hayden away,
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Speaker 9: but the family knew about the addition problems that Dustin
13:50
Speaker 9: was having. And what you want, especially when someone has
13:54
Speaker 9: had these problems, you want supervision. You want to know,
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Speaker 9: not just that they did the minim in terms of
14:02
Speaker 9: probation or being able to get a child back, but
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Speaker 9: you want to know are they going to meetings?
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Speaker 8: Can you see them? I mean, most single parents, even
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Speaker 8: without this really welcome extended loving, extended family health. It's
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Speaker 8: a lot to have a little kid as a single parent,
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Speaker 8: and one would really expect that if he were really
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Speaker 8: doing what he said he was doing, he would want
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Speaker 8: to have them around, even if there was a phone
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Speaker 8: me out.
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Speaker 3: Four year old Hayden Manus is critically missing his family,
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Speaker 3: desperate for answers. Dad says CPS returned Hayden to his moms,
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Speaker 3: but the story is not adding up.
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Speaker 1: Where is Hayden?
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Speaker 2: Why did it take relatives five years to realize he's missing?
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Speaker 2: And when was the last time I can verify that
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Speaker 2: he was seeing Listen?
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Speaker 4: The father and son frequently visit family over the first
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Speaker 4: year after Dustin regains custody, but after a fight with
15:03
Speaker 4: his dad, family members see less and less of Dustin
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Speaker 4: and Hayden. The last time for the family's gift exchange
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Speaker 4: on Christmas Eve twenty nineteen.
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Speaker 1: When's the last time you saw Hayden? Christmas Eve? Twenty
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Speaker 1: nineteen at our family gathering. He was getting presents. He
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Speaker 1: was excited. That was the last time.
15:22
Speaker 2: That is from WTHR thirteen and the photos you were
15:26
Speaker 2: seeing were provided to the Independent by Gary mannis straight
15:31
Speaker 2: out to Eric Hoffman, joining US Prosecuting Attorney forty six
15:35
Speaker 2: Judicial Circuit, Indiana, who has been investigating this case for
15:39
Speaker 2: months after he, like us, find out Hayden's been missing
15:44
Speaker 2: for five years? When can we start our timeline, Eric,
15:51
Speaker 2: when do you believe is the last credible sighting of
15:55
Speaker 2: this little boy?
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Speaker 6: I don't think we can pinpoint it to a particular date.
15:58
Speaker 6: I think the credible information we have would have been
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Speaker 6: sometime between Christmas of twenty nineteen and early twenty twenty.
16:08
Speaker 2: Joining me now being powers veteran trial lawyer, and you
16:12
Speaker 2: can find him at legalpowers dot com. Ben, thank you
16:16
Speaker 2: for being with us. You know, in some jurisdictions, I
16:21
Speaker 2: know in Alabama is called Achilles law. In some jurisdictions,
16:26
Speaker 2: it's actually a crime not to immediately report your child missing.
16:32
Speaker 2: Did you know that that trend is catching fire across
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Speaker 2: the nation. It's becoming a statute in the black and
16:39
Speaker 2: white letter of the law.
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Speaker 10: Ben, Yeah, that is becoming a more common law across
16:43
Speaker 10: the nation to have reporting requirements for missing children for
16:47
Speaker 10: the obvious reasons. You know, time is of the essence
16:50
Speaker 10: when we're dealing with missing children, and the more time
16:53
Speaker 10: it goes on, the harder it gets to find the
16:55
Speaker 10: right answers, find the conclusions that you're new and so
16:58
Speaker 10: those reporting requirements are becoming a popular trend nationally.
17:02
Speaker 2: And the seminal case that shocked our country in the
17:08
Speaker 2: case of two year old Kelly Anthony who goes missing
17:12
Speaker 2: near Orlando, Florida, we really don't know how long taught
17:18
Speaker 2: mom Casey Anthony waited to report Kelly missing.
17:23
Speaker 1: Listen, Oh my daughter, baboo.
17:26
Speaker 2: I need to find her.
17:28
Speaker 11: Your daughter admitted that the baby is later, maybe kind
17:31
Speaker 11: of took her a month ago. Is that my daughter's
17:33
Speaker 11: been looking for I told you my daughter was missing
17:35
Speaker 11: four months. I just found her today that I can't
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Speaker 11: find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me she's been
17:41
Speaker 11: trying to find for her herself. There's something wrong. I
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Speaker 11: saw my daughter's cars today and it's not a dead daughter.
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Speaker 3: Clo.
17:49
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the three year old's name?
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Speaker 11: Kelly c A Y L E. E.
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Speaker 2: Anthony just a few months short of being three. Kelly missing.
18:01
Speaker 2: Now listen to top mom Casey Anthony's explanation.
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Speaker 11: You last saw her a month ago, thirty one days
18:10
Speaker 11: from thirty one days?
18:13
Speaker 1: Who have her? Do you a name?
18:16
Speaker 11: Her name is Janeva Fernando's jo Wallis.
18:20
Speaker 1: Who is that?
18:20
Speaker 11: Maybe she has been my nanny for bout a year
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Speaker 11: and ago, for almost two years? Why why are you
18:26
Speaker 11: calling now?
18:27
Speaker 1: Why didn't you call it thirty one days ago?
18:29
Speaker 11: I've been looking for her and have gone through other
18:32
Speaker 11: resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
18:36
Speaker 1: I've been looking for her at and have gone through
18:42
Speaker 1: other resources to try to find her, which is stupid.
18:45
Speaker 1: Did you hear that?
18:46
Speaker 2: Did you hear that obvious break in the sentence where
18:51
Speaker 2: taught mom Casey Anthony is trying to think up what
18:54
Speaker 2: she could possibly say for waiting a month to report
18:57
Speaker 2: her child missing. Oh, that's a lie. There is no
19:01
Speaker 2: Zannaia Fernandez Gonzalez babysitter. There is no babysitter, There is
19:05
Speaker 2: no nanny. In fact, her whole life was a lie.
19:10
Speaker 2: She would sit on a parent's sofa every day and
19:13
Speaker 2: a chips while they paid for everything for Kelly took
19:17
Speaker 2: care of Kelley, changed Kelly's die piece, bought her clothes,
19:21
Speaker 2: bought her food.
19:22
Speaker 1: Housed her, loved her.
19:24
Speaker 2: She even had a fake uniform from Universal Studios and
19:29
Speaker 2: a little name tag right, and would pretend every day
19:32
Speaker 2: she was going to work all a lie. She even
19:37
Speaker 2: took cops.
19:38
Speaker 1: Where they were trying to verify her job.
19:40
Speaker 7: Her job.
19:42
Speaker 2: All the way to Universal, they went, Yeah, there she is.
19:46
Speaker 2: They went through the security gate, they got.
19:50
Speaker 1: With the cops in the car with her. She's continuing
19:54
Speaker 1: to lie, spinning it out, spinning it out. They get
19:56
Speaker 1: all the way to the building.
19:58
Speaker 2: They go to the door of the building to go
20:02
Speaker 2: talk to her employer, and right as they go in,
20:06
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, okay, you got me.
20:10
Speaker 1: I don't have a job. I don't work here anymore.
20:13
Speaker 2: And for all this time, she's laid out on the
20:15
Speaker 2: sofa having chips and pretzels and pizza, telling her parents
20:18
Speaker 2: she's working. And now we know what else she was
20:21
Speaker 2: lying about. She says that she's been looking for Kelly. Hey,
20:29
Speaker 2: top mom, why don't you look about ten houses down
20:32
Speaker 2: from the Anthony home where you were mooching off your
20:34
Speaker 2: parents in that swampy area with trashing it. That's where
20:39
Speaker 2: Kelly was double bagged and trash bags from your home.
20:46
Speaker 2: She was acquitted. That said, that shocked the country into
20:51
Speaker 2: realizing there's something very wrong when time goes by and
20:56
Speaker 2: no one reports a child missing. I mean, Eric Hoffman,
21:02
Speaker 2: you're investigating this case, Douglas Walker. You are intimately familiar
21:07
Speaker 2: with the facts. Eric, five years, what do relatives have
21:12
Speaker 2: to say about why they never raised a flag of alarm.
21:17
Speaker 6: I don't know why they didn't. They whatever reason they
21:20
Speaker 6: didn't is strictly with them. I don't know, certainly. I
21:25
Speaker 6: think it is reasonable to report that immediately. Again, I
21:31
Speaker 6: think this four years has done nothing but hinder the investigation.
21:34
Speaker 7: And I do see some.
21:37
Speaker 6: Similarities between this case and the case Anthony case, from
21:42
Speaker 6: the facts and from the evidence.
21:44
Speaker 12: Now what are those similarities, Eric, I don't know that
21:46
Speaker 12: I can go into all of the evidentiary facts that
21:48
Speaker 12: we've gathered this far, but some of the similarities that
21:52
Speaker 12: are publicly known are that we have a young child
21:55
Speaker 12: who has not been seen for quite some time.
21:58
Speaker 6: There is some suspicion of around the custodial parent, that
22:02
Speaker 6: being Dustin Manus, and some things that he said that
22:07
Speaker 6: were easily proven to be lies. And then there were
22:13
Speaker 6: some evidentiary facts after that that are somewhat similar.
22:19
Speaker 3: Mystery swirls around this strange disappearance a missing Indiana boy,
22:24
Speaker 3: Hayden Manus, last seen by his family over five years ago.
22:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, mystery swirls.
22:30
Speaker 2: All right, because the family just realizes he's missing.
22:36
Speaker 1: And then a chance encounter.
22:39
Speaker 13: Early September twenty twenty four, more than a year after
22:43
Speaker 13: Dustin's last text to a family member, two of Hayden's
22:46
Speaker 13: great grandmothers run into each other at the grocery store
22:49
Speaker 13: and get to talking about.
22:50
Speaker 1: Dustin and his son.
22:52
Speaker 13: One says Dustin told her DCS gave Dustin's mom full
22:56
Speaker 13: custody in twenty twenty two, but the other had heard
22:59
Speaker 13: nothing about that. After some discussion, the extremely concerned family
23:03
Speaker 13: reaches out to both DCS and police asking for a
23:07
Speaker 13: welfare check for Hayden.
23:08
Speaker 2: Straight out to Eric Hoffin, veteran trial lawyer in the
23:12
Speaker 2: prosecutor's office, tell me about that chance meeting.
23:16
Speaker 6: It's my understanding that the two grandmothers met up at
23:21
Speaker 6: a grocery store by happenstance and started discussing Hayden, and
23:26
Speaker 6: then at some point in time after that, on September
23:29
Speaker 6: fifth of twenty twenty four, is when the welfare check
23:33
Speaker 6: was called in with the police department, and that is
23:35
Speaker 6: the first time we know that there's any issue with
23:38
Speaker 6: Hayden in terms of him being missing or any foul play.
23:41
Speaker 1: So they just happened to see each other at the
23:44
Speaker 1: grocery store.
23:45
Speaker 2: I know, in my hometown, which actually I live far
23:48
Speaker 2: out of the town in rural bib County, you would
23:53
Speaker 2: actually run into everybody at the PEGAI big league, Okay,
23:55
Speaker 2: the grocery store, So I get it. They run into
23:58
Speaker 2: each other and one tells the other that Dustin's mother,
24:04
Speaker 2: the bio mom.
24:06
Speaker 1: Now has custody.
24:09
Speaker 2: Isn't it true, Eric Hoffman, that police run down the
24:13
Speaker 2: bio dad and Hayden's not there, and he tells officers
24:18
Speaker 2: the very same story that Hayden has been moved in
24:22
Speaker 2: place with his bio mom.
24:25
Speaker 1: So we get it from the horse's mouth, right, Eric.
24:28
Speaker 6: Yes. In fact, on the fifth, the very same day
24:31
Speaker 6: that the welfare check call comes in, police officers go
24:35
Speaker 6: to the last known address of Dustin Manus, and that
24:40
Speaker 6: very same day they were able to find Dustin and
24:43
Speaker 6: they interviewed him at the police station. They took him
24:45
Speaker 6: to the Sheriff's apartment and reinterviewed him, and he had
24:47
Speaker 6: a very specific place where he says Hayden was and
24:52
Speaker 6: how he got there. He said that DCS and the
24:55
Speaker 6: Sheriff's department removed Hayden from him several years ago and
25:00
Speaker 6: gave him Hayden, that is, to his birth mother. And
25:06
Speaker 6: obviously within a day or two that was easily proved false.
25:12
Speaker 6: He was not telling the truth.
25:13
Speaker 2: Now you heard Eric Hoffman describe, and he knows this
25:18
Speaker 2: case better than any of us. These photos from Hayden
25:23
Speaker 2: Manis's family to news outlets that the great grandma the
25:29
Speaker 2: family meet at the grocery. They state that the bio
25:34
Speaker 2: dad says, bio mom has her, I don't has him.
25:37
Speaker 1: I don't have him.
25:40
Speaker 2: The dad's tracked down. He says the same thing. But
25:43
Speaker 2: Eric tells us that is not true.
25:47
Speaker 1: That the bio dad is lying.
25:51
Speaker 2: And it brings to mind another case that hit national headlines,
25:57
Speaker 2: the case of Harmony Montgomery.
26:01
Speaker 1: Both the bio parents are like this, listen.
26:04
Speaker 14: Last time she was enrolled in any type of school.
26:08
Speaker 14: From my understanding is you have to be confirmed as
26:10
Speaker 14: down in Massachusetts but again she's seven right now, so
26:15
Speaker 14: twenty nineteen, five years old, probably right around that kindergarten timeframe. Again,
26:21
Speaker 14: we've spoken with family members and will continue to do so.
26:24
Speaker 14: I know I keep coming back to that, and that's
26:26
Speaker 14: a fair question, right, did we speak to mom? Did
26:29
Speaker 14: we speak to dad? Did we speak to this we're
26:31
Speaker 14: speaking to is any and all family members that come
26:35
Speaker 14: to our attention and ones that we are seeking out
26:37
Speaker 14: as well.
26:38
Speaker 2: That is a Manchester, New Hampshire Police Chief Alan Aldenburg
26:44
Speaker 2: desperately interviewing bio mom, bio dad, extended family. The last
26:49
Speaker 2: time anybody got a good siding of Harmony Montgomery. Her
26:54
Speaker 2: uncle saw her father assault her, attack her, giving her
26:58
Speaker 2: a black eye, making her clean the bathroom with her toothbrush.
27:04
Speaker 1: Listen to this.
27:05
Speaker 15: Harmony Montgomery is missing for two years before anyone begins
27:08
Speaker 15: to look for her. The search for five year old
27:11
Speaker 15: Harmony leads to the family of Adam Montgomery, Harmony's father
27:15
Speaker 15: telling police they called social services several times worried about Harmony,
27:20
Speaker 15: but nobody would help police track down Adam Montgomery, and
27:24
Speaker 15: he tells police Harmony's mother in Florida has Harmony. Police
27:29
Speaker 15: explain she is the one who called for help finding
27:32
Speaker 15: her daughter.
27:33
Speaker 14: More than two years has passed as harmony since Harmony
27:35
Speaker 14: was last seen. That puts us at a disadvantage and
27:38
Speaker 14: the public public's help is greatly needed.
27:40
Speaker 2: Bryan Vzgibbons, USPA nationwide security.
27:44
Speaker 1: Look at this.
27:45
Speaker 2: These are all cases of children that go missing and
27:51
Speaker 2: months years past before anyone notices how many children are
27:57
Speaker 2: out there missing, likely dead right now they no one
28:02
Speaker 2: realize they're missing.
28:04
Speaker 5: It's a great point, Nancy, and especially when you're dealing
28:07
Speaker 5: with folks in active addiction. Unwinding timelines, unwinding locations from
28:13
Speaker 5: witness statements of anybody who might have been around Dustin
28:17
Speaker 5: Manus around the time that Hayden was last seen is
28:21
Speaker 5: going to become more and more complex for investigators.
28:24
Speaker 2: Four year old Hayden Manus has been missing five years?
28:30
Speaker 1: Is there any chance in finding him?
28:33
Speaker 2: There has been a recent sighting of him which many
28:38
Speaker 2: believe is credible, which gives me hope.
28:43
Speaker 1: Then there is the reunification process.
28:46
Speaker 2: Did you hear the grandfather or Hayden's grandfather saying I didn't.
28:50
Speaker 1: Want him to be given back to his bio dad
28:53
Speaker 1: my son. I didn't want that and they did it anyway,
28:58
Speaker 1: Listen to this would be.
29:01
Speaker 2: Adoptive mom who fostered a beautiful little girl for years
29:06
Speaker 2: before she was snatched away and given back any reunification
29:11
Speaker 2: with the mother the bio mom.
29:13
Speaker 1: Listen.
29:13
Speaker 16: A family friend contacted us and said, Hey, I know
29:17
Speaker 16: of a foster child that is most likely going to
29:20
Speaker 16: be put into adoption. Is this something that you're interested
29:22
Speaker 16: in doing? And my husband and I looked at each
29:25
Speaker 16: other across the couch and we just were like, Yeah,
29:27
Speaker 16: let's do it. And we weren't sure at first if
29:30
Speaker 16: it was going to be a long term situation or
29:32
Speaker 16: a short term, but as the years went by, we
29:34
Speaker 16: were like, Wow, this is actually happening, Like we're going
29:37
Speaker 16: to get to adopt her, and we love the time
29:39
Speaker 16: that we had with Oakley.
29:40
Speaker 2: That's Jamie jo Hiles, Oakley's foster mom, and she had
29:46
Speaker 2: her hopes, her and her husband, they both had their
29:49
Speaker 2: hopes up that they were really going to be the
29:53
Speaker 2: forever home.
29:55
Speaker 1: For maybe Oakley.
29:56
Speaker 2: And just like in Hayden's case bio mom, in this case,
30:01
Speaker 2: bio dad has a drug problem.
30:04
Speaker 16: Mom had gone to the rehab classes that she was
30:07
Speaker 16: ordered to go to and shortly after she went to
30:11
Speaker 16: those rehab classes, she became pregnant and stayed clean. And
30:15
Speaker 16: I don't know if it's because she had stayed clean
30:17
Speaker 16: for so long or what kind of law happens, but
30:21
Speaker 16: she was able to get Oakley and her siblings back well.
30:25
Speaker 2: Speaking with Jamie Joe, she choked up. From here, I
30:30
Speaker 2: could see you swallow at that last sentence.
30:36
Speaker 16: Why it never gets easier to talk about this because
30:41
Speaker 16: my husband and I grieved the loss of Oakley, and
30:44
Speaker 16: then to find out that she was missing.
30:46
Speaker 1: It still hurts our hearts.
30:48
Speaker 16: And it doesn't make sense to us, and it never
30:51
Speaker 16: will make sense to us why we didn't get to
30:54
Speaker 16: have her with us permanently.
30:55
Speaker 2: In fact, Jamie Joe and her husband were so convinced
30:59
Speaker 2: they were getting Oakley they actually agreed to take Oakley's
31:05
Speaker 2: new little baby sibling as well. They were going to
31:08
Speaker 2: have a whole family, a house.
31:10
Speaker 1: Full of children.
31:12
Speaker 16: In the spring. We were asked by our social worker,
31:16
Speaker 16: Angela Freese, if we would be interested in taking the
31:20
Speaker 16: new baby when it was born, and my husband and
31:23
Speaker 16: I were like, yes, we would be interested in taking
31:25
Speaker 16: Oakley's younger sibling. And then the next month, at the
31:28
Speaker 16: next Health and Safety visit. We were told never mind,
31:33
Speaker 16: like that's not an option anymore. And then it slowly
31:37
Speaker 16: kind of came to that, oh, she's going to be returned.
31:40
Speaker 16: And when my husband and I went to fight it
31:43
Speaker 16: with the Grace Harbor Department of Children, News and Families,
31:46
Speaker 16: we were told, she's not your daughter.
31:48
Speaker 1: You need to let go of this.
31:49
Speaker 2: Oakley is dead at the hands in the care of
31:54
Speaker 2: her by a mom. You know, I wonder Eric Hoffman,
32:01
Speaker 2: your thoughts on reunification. Why did they even call it that.
32:06
Speaker 2: That's such a euphemism like domestic violence and make it
32:10
Speaker 2: sound so cozy domestic violence. I've had so much domestic
32:16
Speaker 2: violence translation homicides of women and children that it's enough
32:23
Speaker 2: to just make you gag. Same thing here, reunification. It
32:27
Speaker 2: sounds so good, it's bs I'm against reunification. Why do
32:32
Speaker 2: we keep putting the desires of two deadbeat parents over
32:38
Speaker 2: the wellbeing of the child.
32:40
Speaker 1: Look at Hayden, he's gone.
32:42
Speaker 2: He could be dead because of reunification. The grandfather wanted him,
32:46
Speaker 2: Papa wanted him, but oh hl n O, we couldn't
32:50
Speaker 2: do that, and now he could be dead.
32:53
Speaker 6: I agree with you, Nancy. I think I can speak
32:55
Speaker 6: for most of the prosecutors, if not all, the prosecutors
32:58
Speaker 6: in the state of Indiana, that reunification, that particular word
33:02
Speaker 6: is nauseating. It is particularly nauseating in this case. From
33:08
Speaker 6: what I know of it. I do not think that
33:10
Speaker 6: the Department of Child Services should have ever given Hayden
33:14
Speaker 6: back to Dustin Manus. Hayden should have stayed with his grandfather,
33:20
Speaker 6: Gary Manus, and we would be in totally different place today.
33:24
Speaker 6: I can't speak for DCS. I don't know why they
33:26
Speaker 6: would have given him back. But again, that word reunification
33:30
Speaker 6: is nauseating.
33:38
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
33:43
Speaker 17: Social media is littered with rumors and theories on what
33:46
Speaker 17: happened to Hayden's some extremely disturbing. One post accuses Manus
33:50
Speaker 17: and his ex girlfriend in great detail, of abusing Hayden
33:52
Speaker 17: and killing the boy when his condition deteriorated to a
33:55
Speaker 17: point of requiring intense medical attention. The now deleted posts
34:00
Speaker 17: claims the couple then buried Hayden's body in their backyard
34:03
Speaker 17: to decompose for six months before disposing of the remains
34:07
Speaker 17: in a gas station dumpster.
34:09
Speaker 2: To Eric Hoffman, joining us veteran trial lawyer prosecutor forty
34:14
Speaker 2: six Judicial Circuit.
34:15
Speaker 1: Indiana on this case. What about these rumors?
34:22
Speaker 2: I know you cannot comment on specific facts, but let
34:25
Speaker 2: me ask you this, are those rumors that Hayden was
34:30
Speaker 2: abused and killed? Are they grounded in any shred of
34:36
Speaker 2: credible evidence? Was there a sighting? Is there some tangible
34:40
Speaker 2: evidence that that's true.
34:41
Speaker 6: We have heard those rumors from multiple sources. We are
34:45
Speaker 6: considering them as a part of the investigation as potentially
34:48
Speaker 6: being true in terms of physical evidence or something. To
34:51
Speaker 6: corroborate these rumors or these stories or these allegations, it's
34:58
Speaker 6: almost impossible now, four years later, or to define that
35:01
Speaker 6: coroboration that a prosecutor would need to go into court with.
35:05
Speaker 1: Have you brought out cadaverdogs that gas station dumpster? You did?
35:10
Speaker 6: Yes, We've used cadaver dogs at multiple locations in Delaware County.
35:15
Speaker 2: Any hits no been powers joining us better on try
35:18
Speaker 2: a lawyer at legalpowers dot com. What are your thoughts
35:23
Speaker 2: on reunification with bioparents.
35:27
Speaker 1: That have already lost their child for very good reason.
35:32
Speaker 10: I don't think that the child should just be given
35:34
Speaker 10: back without any type of oversight or any type of
35:37
Speaker 10: check in or any type.
35:38
Speaker 7: Of follow up.
35:38
Speaker 10: I mean, they clearly have exhibited that they're not able
35:41
Speaker 10: to care for themselves, much less a child. And when
35:44
Speaker 10: you overlay a drug addiction into that definitely needs to
35:48
Speaker 10: be some oversight. And so it does sound like in
35:50
Speaker 10: this situation, DCS failed, Hayden failed. Hayden's family not requiring
35:56
Speaker 10: his father to continue to show progress, to continue to
35:59
Speaker 10: show some Instead, they just gave him back. And even worse,
36:02
Speaker 10: they give him back during COVID lockdowns.
36:05
Speaker 7: Ben.
36:05
Speaker 2: When they first took Hayden away from the dad, they
36:10
Speaker 2: found Hayden in a motel room littered with heroin, and
36:17
Speaker 2: yet they gave him back.
36:18
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's no reason that he gets.
36:20
Speaker 14: A befit of the doubt.
36:21
Speaker 2: I mean, have you ever heard when you don't know
36:23
Speaker 2: a horse, look at his track record.
36:25
Speaker 1: If you don't know what the Biodad's going to do,
36:28
Speaker 1: look at what he's already done.
36:31
Speaker 2: Eric Hoffman, have you been in touch with the bio
36:35
Speaker 2: Dad's girlfriend and if so, could she elucidate this at all?
36:42
Speaker 6: The Sheriff's Department investigators have been in touch with bio
36:46
Speaker 6: Dad's girlfriend. She gave multiple interviews with Sheriff's detectives, some
36:53
Speaker 6: of which contained conflicting information, and she has spoken with
36:57
Speaker 6: them on multiple occasions.
36:58
Speaker 1: Well, did she shed in light off where where Hayden
37:02
Speaker 1: could be?
37:02
Speaker 6: She did, but again what she did tell the Sheriff's
37:06
Speaker 6: department was somewhat contradictory or inconsistent.
37:12
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, it sounds like a bunch of
37:14
Speaker 1: wet cats and a barrel.
37:16
Speaker 2: You've got drug addled bio dad. You've got relatives that
37:21
Speaker 2: haven't seen the child in five years but don't realize
37:24
Speaker 2: he's missing.
37:25
Speaker 1: And by the way, speaking of.
37:26
Speaker 2: The relatives, we invited the grandparents on to make a
37:33
Speaker 2: heartfelt plea to you about finding Hayden, and they told
37:39
Speaker 2: us that they didn't think we crime stories would cover
37:43
Speaker 2: the case the way they wanted it covered. How many
37:47
Speaker 2: ways are there to cover a missing child case?
37:52
Speaker 13: Uh?
37:53
Speaker 1: That said Douglas Walker. Where does the case stand now?
38:00
Speaker 7: Dustin Manus was questioned in September gave investigators an account
38:08
Speaker 7: of the child being returned to its birth mother that
38:12
Speaker 7: didn't happen. In November, he was stopped for a traffic offense.
38:19
Speaker 7: The officer that night noted that he appeared to be
38:23
Speaker 7: extremely nervous to the point of being afraid, he wrote
38:26
Speaker 7: in a report, and Dustin told him that he was
38:32
Speaker 7: frightened because he had recently been questioned about the disappearance
38:36
Speaker 7: of his son. They ultimately found heroin and meth in
38:41
Speaker 7: his possession. He was arrested and charged with low grade
38:48
Speaker 7: felony drug possession charges. Was in jail under a three
38:53
Speaker 7: thousand dollars bond. A few weeks later, a family member
38:58
Speaker 7: came forward with that money. Was released from the Delaware
39:02
Speaker 7: County jail. Four days after that, he fatally overdosed. Spoke
39:07
Speaker 7: to the coroner yesterday. He said he died of an
39:10
Speaker 7: acute mixed drug intoxication. So any possibility of further exploring
39:18
Speaker 7: the situation with Dustin Manus is not going to happen.
39:23
Speaker 7: He's gone, And a person close to the case yesterday
39:26
Speaker 7: told me he felt like they were chasing ghosts and
39:30
Speaker 7: trying to get this salt.
39:33
Speaker 2: It's so trite to say we're not giving up, but
39:39
Speaker 2: we're not. If you know or think you know anything
39:44
Speaker 2: about this baby boy Hayden Dial seven six ' five
39:50
Speaker 2: seven four seven seven eight eight five.
39:56
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
40:01
Speaker 14: People to Gi