Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / CHARLIE KIRK ALLEGED ASSASSIN TREATS HIMSELF TO A STEAK DINNER JUST HOURS AFTER GUNNING DOWN HUSBAND AND FATHER KIRK

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CHARLIE KIRK ALLEGED ASSASSIN TREATS HIMSELF TO A STEAK DINNER JUST HOURS AFTER GUNNING DOWN HUSBAND AND FATHER KIRK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Well, the facts just keep mounting. In the assassination of
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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk now, a Utah restaurant owner claims the alleged shooter,
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Speaker 2: Tyler Robinson, was hungry. Yeah, shooting Charlie Kirk, husband and
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Speaker 2: father activist certainly did not dampen his appetite, the owner.
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Speaker 2: The restaurant owner even revealing what the alleged assassin ordered. Wow,
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Speaker 2: how do people do it? I've always been curious, how
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Speaker 2: do they manage to wolf down a steak dinner after
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Speaker 2: gunning somebody down dead. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: That's right.
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Speaker 2: A Utah business owner says, Tyler Robinson wolf down a
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Speaker 2: steak dinner after allegedly gunning down conservative activist Charlie Kirk.
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Speaker 2: And it wasn't just a state dinner. It was a
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Speaker 2: hardy steak dinner. It was a mom and pop steakhouse
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Speaker 2: about three hours south of where the Turning Point USA
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Speaker 2: founder was shot. At an Orum College gathering, the twenty
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Speaker 2: two year old murder suspects sat all alone at the counter,
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Speaker 2: kept to himself.
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Speaker 1: But ate like a pig. That's what we're learning.
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Speaker 2: Okay, reality chick. Enough about the steak dinner? What about
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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk? What happened that day?
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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, the thirty one year old head of Turning
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Speaker 3: Point USA, is shot dead during a speaking event at
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Speaker 3: Utah Valley University in Orham. The shooting took place about
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Speaker 3: twenty minutes into his speech. Bystanders said Kirk was hit
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Speaker 3: in the neck while answering student questions. A UVU alert
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Speaker 3: confirmed quote A single shot was fired on campus toward
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Speaker 3: a visiting speaker. Police are investigating now. Video from the
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Speaker 3: scene showed students running as the shots rang out and
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Speaker 3: Kirk being rushed away by his security team. Utah Governor
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Speaker 3: Spencer Cox posted on x quote those responsible will be
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Speaker 3: held fully accountable. Violence has no place in our public life.
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Speaker 3: Americans of every political persuasion must unite in condemning this act.
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Speaker 3: Our prayers are with Charlie, his family, and all those affected.
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Speaker 3: Utah Senator Mike Lee wrote quote, please join me in
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Speaker 3: praying for Charlie Kirk and the students gathered there. Vice
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Speaker 3: President Vance added on x quote, say a prayer for
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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy. And a young father.
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Speaker 3: FBI Director Cash Pattel said, quote, we are closely monitoring
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Speaker 3: reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah
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Speaker 3: Valley University. Our thoughts are with Charlie, his loved ones,
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Speaker 3: and everyone involved. Agents will be on the scene quickly,
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Speaker 3: and the FBI stands in full support of the ongoing response.
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Speaker 3: Kirk himself had posted online only moments before the attack, quote,
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Speaker 3: we are so back. Utah Valley University is fired up
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Speaker 3: and ready for the first stop on the American Comeback Tour.
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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk rose to national prominence after co founding Turning
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Speaker 3: Point USA in twenty twelve. Has since built the group
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Speaker 3: into a major conservative force on campuses, created several offshoots,
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Speaker 3: including Turning Point Action and Turning Point Faith, and he
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Speaker 3: hosts The Charlie Kirk Show. He has been a strong
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Speaker 3: supporter of President Trump and has often spoken out on
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Speaker 3: issues like critical race theory and government mandates. On Wednesday,
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Speaker 3: he was speaking under a tent at the university courtyard
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Speaker 3: as part of his American Comeback Tour. Shots were fired
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Speaker 3: from the top of a nearby building about two hundred
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Speaker 3: yards away. The campus went into lockdown while police and
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Speaker 3: federal agents swarmed the scene. Earlier reports stated a shooter
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Speaker 3: was arrested, but that has been corrected by UVU to
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Speaker 3: state that there is no suspect in custody.
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Speaker 1: With a high degree of certainty, we have him.
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Speaker 4: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
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Speaker 1: We got him. A massive manhunt.
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Speaker 3: The suspect was taken into custody at ten pm local time.
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Speaker 2: The assassin who gunned down a loving father of a husband.
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Speaker 1: The suspect was apprehended in historic time period right custody
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Speaker 1: in custody.
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Speaker 2: The assassin who guns down a father of two.
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Speaker 4: He is observed on video in a Plaine maroon T
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Speaker 4: shirt like colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo,
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Speaker 4: and light colored shoes arriving on UVU campus in a
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Speaker 4: Great Dodge Challenger at approximately eight twenty nine.
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Speaker 5: A M.
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Speaker 4: Tyler Robinson. Robinson had become more political in recent years.
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Speaker 4: A second unfired casing red, oh belichow bella chow belichow
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Speaker 4: chow chow. And a third unfired casing red if you
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Speaker 4: read this.
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Speaker 6: You are gay.
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Speaker 2: His wife and two little children who will grow up
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Speaker 2: without daddy.
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Speaker 4: This is a very sad day. For again for our country.
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Speaker 7: And I do know this is going to be a
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Speaker 7: federal case, and there's many of us believe that Charlie
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Speaker 7: was targeted because of this political ideology.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's going to happen to this guy?
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Speaker 3: Well, I hope it's going to be found guilty, I
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Speaker 3: would imagine, and I hope he gets the death penalty.
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Speaker 5: Tyler Doings relics cal One has your made it her
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Speaker 5: count two fellow, you discharge the fight arm because he's serious.
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Speaker 5: Filing injury. I am filing a notice of intent to
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Speaker 5: see the death patty because if his belief believed to
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Speaker 5: Attarney a Charlie heard based on Charlie Hurt's political expression
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Speaker 5: and in solling, the children were present and would witness.
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Speaker 2: The second death penalty is the death Penuilty is the
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Speaker 2: death penulty.
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Speaker 1: They loaded him up. That's right.
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Speaker 2: With so many alternative counts, it will be hard for
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Speaker 2: a jury to find him not guilty.
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Speaker 5: Listen, I am filing a criminal information Charlie Tyler Jings
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Speaker 5: relics in age with a following crime. Cal One has
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Speaker 5: remade a murder a coutal offense, or intentionally or knowingly
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Speaker 5: causing the deathly herd un her circumstances that created a
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Speaker 5: great risk of death to others. Cow two felony discharge
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Speaker 5: of the fire arm causing serious body injury, a first degree.
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Speaker 1: Felony legal term.
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Speaker 2: They ain't playing, joining me in all, start panel to
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Speaker 2: make sense of what we're learning in the courtroom.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Randolph Right joining us.
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Speaker 2: Former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney, joining us at
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Speaker 2: Rice Law, Randolph Rice charging in the alternative.
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Speaker 1: I've done it a million times.
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Speaker 2: If I got a case and the grand jury had
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Speaker 2: not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send
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Speaker 2: it back to the grand jury and represent it myself
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Speaker 2: to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge
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Speaker 2: the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by
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Speaker 2: that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.
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Speaker 2: It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.
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Speaker 1: Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.
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Speaker 2: But I'm worried, So then I charged you with voluntary
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Speaker 2: manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter if I'm desperate. In other words,
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Speaker 2: there is no way you are walking out of that
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Speaker 2: courtroom if.
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Speaker 1: I have anything to do with it without a conviction.
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Speaker 2: They loaded him up explain in a nutshell Rice nutshell, Well, Nancy.
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Speaker 8: You did a great job explain that, because if you
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Speaker 8: don't get that top count, the most serious count, you've
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Speaker 8: got the backups. But the problem here is, and there
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Speaker 8: is a problem, is that I think that they may
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Speaker 8: be reaching on this aggravated murder. Now, they may be
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Speaker 8: using this as leverage to force him or try to
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Speaker 8: get him to take a plead. But the aggravating circumstances
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Speaker 8: at this point I think are very.
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Speaker 1: Very sough head blowing off. Are you they're reaching? Are
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Speaker 1: you serious?
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Speaker 5: This guy?
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Speaker 2: According to the state, this guy stakes out the place,
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Speaker 2: and I believe they're going to end up with video
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Speaker 2: showing that was not his first trip to the top
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Speaker 2: of that roof. He stakes it out, He plans it
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Speaker 2: in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought
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Speaker 2: goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom
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Speaker 2: of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk
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Speaker 2: or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care less doesn't matter.
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Speaker 2: He targeted him for his freedom of speech, and that
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Speaker 2: is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting a
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Speaker 2: judge or shooting a political figure like the president or
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Speaker 2: the vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop.
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Speaker 2: You go after them because of what they represent that
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Speaker 2: you don't like, and you actually, you know what, you
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Speaker 2: really know how to kick it off wrong, don't you.
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Speaker 1: I bet you're a super downer at a party.
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Speaker 2: You come in to crime stories and blurt out the
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Speaker 2: state is reaching what.
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Speaker 1: Could be more aggravating?
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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, the problem is is that they're trying to
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Speaker 8: rely on the fact that there were children present or
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Speaker 8: that the crime could have hurt somebody else. And again,
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Speaker 8: that seems to be a bit of a stripture.
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Speaker 1: Show him the crowd here there you go.
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Speaker 2: Look look at that he shot from a little under
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Speaker 2: two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was
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Speaker 2: in danger.
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Speaker 1: Rice, look at your monitor.
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Speaker 8: Nobody else is in danger in this situation, at least
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Speaker 8: from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I think
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Speaker 8: that the state has a good argument. But in the
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Speaker 8: defense's argument, they're going to say this was a single
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Speaker 8: bullet that had a single target that ultimately killed Charlie
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Speaker 8: Kirk and didn't endanger the other people in the crowd,
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Speaker 8: And that's where there may be a problem for the
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Speaker 8: prosecutor's office in trying to seek the charge that seeks
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Speaker 8: the death penalty.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in
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Speaker 2: the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.
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Speaker 1: They can't prove it. Did I not hear?
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Speaker 2: You just say the state has a good argument. So
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Speaker 2: which one is it? Does the state have a good argument?
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Speaker 1: I say they do?
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Speaker 2: Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad
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Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense
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Speaker 2: attorney that doesn't.
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Speaker 1: Say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?
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Speaker 8: Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that
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Speaker 8: you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that
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Speaker 8: I defend, because that's their job. Their job is to
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Speaker 8: challenge the prosecution to say, did you try to get
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Speaker 8: too much?
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Speaker 6: Here?
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Speaker 8: And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is
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Speaker 8: using to try to get the defendant to take a
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Speaker 8: police saying, hey, look.
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Speaker 1: Did you actually say the P word? Plea? You think
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Speaker 1: there's going to be a plea?
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Speaker 2: You think there's going to pull a coburger with the
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Speaker 2: whole world watching them. You don't think they're going to
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Speaker 2: take this to trial and see the death penalty, whether
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Speaker 2: they get it or not.
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Speaker 8: I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and
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Speaker 8: look what happened there. I think that this is something
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Speaker 8: they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said
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Speaker 2: so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.
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Speaker 2: But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're
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Speaker 2: absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic
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Speaker 2: to make the defendant plea guilty, because there seems to
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Speaker 2: be no.
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Speaker 1: Way out with all these alternative counts.
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Speaker 2: I don't see it happening though. I don't see a
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Speaker 2: plea going down in this case.
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Speaker 1: But again, you're right, we didn't see one coming in
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Speaker 1: Coburger either. But put him up one more time, Randolph. Guys,
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Speaker 1: let me remind you.
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Speaker 2: Rice is a former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won
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Speaker 2: a lot of cases. Now he is a criminal defense
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Speaker 2: attorney civil attorney. So, Randolph, the aggravating circumstance you mentioned
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Speaker 2: was just that other people were endangered.
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Speaker 1: It's not like you shoot Jackie in the studio and
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Speaker 1: it's just the two of you.
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Speaker 2: This is a shooting with a throng of people, thousands
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Speaker 2: of people, if that bullet had gone the wrong way,
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Speaker 2: if there had been a gust of wind, who knows.
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Speaker 2: But they included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred
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Speaker 2: in the presence of children.
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Speaker 1: Now, that is aggravating a violent.
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Speaker 2: Felony that occurs in the presence of children. How are
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Speaker 2: you going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.
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Speaker 8: Bringing Shawn child in there that actually saw the murder.
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Speaker 8: They're going to have to prove that in court that
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Speaker 8: a child actually saw it was affected by it, and
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Speaker 8: therefore that's the aggravating circumstance. And so I don't know
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Speaker 8: if they've got that right now. You know, it just
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Speaker 8: might be tough for them on that account.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you're right, that's an element of proof. They will
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Speaker 2: have to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,
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Speaker 2: a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally
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Speaker 2: in court. Now what that was was an arrangement. An
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Speaker 2: arrangement where the defendant is brought in because you cannot
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Speaker 2: stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being told
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Speaker 2: what you're charged with by typically a magistrate. I believe
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Speaker 2: this is going to beat the trial judge from here out,
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Speaker 2: but we're also learning not just the charges, but how
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Speaker 2: the murder went down.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 5: At approximately eleven fifty one am, the suspect entered campus
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Speaker 5: from the north. He is seen wearing a live shirt
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Speaker 5: with an American flag in the center, a dark baseball out,
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Speaker 5: and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his
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Speaker 5: head down and rarely raises his head enough to get
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Speaker 5: a clear image of his face. As he proceeds across
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Speaker 5: the campus. He's seen walking with an unusual gage. The
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Speaker 5: suspect watch with very little bending in his right leg,
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Speaker 5: consistent with a rifle being hidden in its pants.
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Speaker 2: Joining us now, Harmonia Rodriguez, She if you as reporter
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Speaker 2: Daily Mail.
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Speaker 1: Harmonia, thank you for being with us. So that explains.
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Speaker 2: Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,
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Speaker 2: because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,
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Speaker 2: especially if they play this in promo.
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Speaker 1: Harmonia, explain what they're talking.
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Speaker 9: About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the
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Speaker 9: hours before this shooting last week. As we can see
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Speaker 9: on the screen, the suspect was seen arriving on campus
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Speaker 9: about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping. Now,
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Speaker 9: this made the public wonder why this person was limping?
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Speaker 1: Do they have a limp?
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Speaker 9: Yesterday we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle
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Speaker 9: that he used in one of his pant legs, and
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Speaker 9: that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.
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Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?
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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonna joining US director Coldkay's Foundation Former Homicide to
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Speaker 2: take a start of the interview room on YouTube. Who
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Speaker 2: has gone to this scene, to the home, to the
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Speaker 2: shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,
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Speaker 2: is he is? He not heard of ring doorbell cams
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Speaker 2: because they catch him going door to door to door
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Speaker 2: to door. They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him
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Speaker 2: walking through the neighborhood. And don't tell me mcdonaugh he
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Speaker 2: didn't case this out, like where am I going to park?
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Speaker 1: How am I going to get away?
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Speaker 2: This has been at least at least days in the making, absolutely, Nancy.
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Speaker 7: And what I've learned is he did have that vehicle
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Speaker 7: up there, and it was parked about a mile away
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Speaker 7: from the crime chine, and he walked in to the
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Speaker 7: crime machine to case it out initially before the situation
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Speaker 7: went down, and then later I've also learned that he
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Speaker 7: turned his phone off for a short period of time
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Speaker 7: and then turned it back on after the homicide.
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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to the
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Speaker 2: vehicle where did he park his muscle car?
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Speaker 7: The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away
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Speaker 7: at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensis Jackson will Stay University,
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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
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Speaker 2: of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash morphew
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Speaker 2: where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their
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Speaker 2: phone off.
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Speaker 1: There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it
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Speaker 1: or not.
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Speaker 2: The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero
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Speaker 2: one percent. Okay, they will not turn it off even
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Speaker 2: when they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.
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Speaker 2: So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at
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Speaker 2: the time of the incident, I mean, think about it,
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott. If it weren't for the murder, the mo
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Speaker 2: modus operandi method of operation would be laughable because you
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Speaker 2: see the pings leading up to a certain spot and
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Speaker 2: then poof the phone goes off, the murder occurs, then
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Speaker 2: poof the phone goes back on, and you see the
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Speaker 2: return back to your home nest.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 10: It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to the
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Speaker 10: real world here, because these phones are the modern crime scene.
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Speaker 10: Because it seems like every case that we cover, you know,
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Speaker 10: I think most famously to this point Coburger's case, you
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Speaker 10: go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken a lot,
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Speaker 10: spoken about quite a bit in that particular case. We
17:38
Speaker 10: have established patterns. Why are you going to turn it
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Speaker 10: off at this particular time? And look, the case is
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Speaker 10: not proven simply based on that, but it's another element
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Speaker 10: that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.
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Speaker 1: This video from our friends over at the Independent speaking
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Speaker 1: of the rifle. Listen, rifle.
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Speaker 5: We're sent for forends and processing DNA consistent when Robin Pennocks,
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Speaker 5: a defendant was found on the trigger. Other parts of
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Speaker 5: the rifle, the fire cartridge, casing, two of the three
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Speaker 5: how to fire cartridges, and the towel. Law enforcement was
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Speaker 5: unable to immediately locate the shooter, so the published photos
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Speaker 5: of the shooter from the UBU surveillance cameras and ask
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Speaker 5: for the publics help to identify it. Meanwhile, law enforcement
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Speaker 5: continued and trying to identify the shooter.
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Speaker 1: Through other means, joining us.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall renown psychoanalysts out of the LA jurisdiction.
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Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breaker.
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Speaker 2: You can see her now on peacock and she's at
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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Before you launch into the
18:50
Speaker 2: whole furry connection, I want to hear your thoughts on
18:56
Speaker 2: a guy.
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Speaker 1: That comes from a loving home, very loving.
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Speaker 2: We've heard Wow, he was afraid to tell his parents
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Speaker 2: he was dating another guy that was transitioning. The family knew,
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Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell you about that in just
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Speaker 2: a moment. So he comes to a very loving home.
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Speaker 1: He was smart.
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Speaker 2: Dr Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top one
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Speaker 2: percent of I believe it was his act exam.
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Speaker 1: Almost forty thousand dollars of scholarship.
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Speaker 2: Goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out,
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Speaker 2: pursues Listen.
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Speaker 11: To this thirty two thousand dollars. This scholarship is available
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Speaker 11: for forty years or a semesters.
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Speaker 1: I mean they're supportive, they love him.
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Speaker 2: My bottom line here is what went wrong, And I'm
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Speaker 2: not talking about his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant,
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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Some people say right, some people say wrong,
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Speaker 2: don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how
20:03
Speaker 2: do you guy from a loving home when the parents
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Speaker 2: like you're the apple of their eye to becoming a
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Speaker 2: psycho shooter?
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Speaker 12: Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we
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Speaker 12: call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand
20:18
Speaker 12: dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and
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Speaker 12: studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,
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Speaker 12: if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate
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Speaker 12: being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good
20:33
Speaker 12: enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So
20:37
Speaker 12: the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel
20:41
Speaker 12: insulted by society. They feel that they are in a
20:44
Speaker 12: one down position, that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like
20:48
Speaker 12: they're better than them, and they hold on to every
20:51
Speaker 12: little grudge until they have some kind of a profound
20:55
Speaker 12: loss in their life, and in this case it may
20:57
Speaker 12: have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.
21:01
Speaker 12: And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk
21:05
Speaker 12: through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of
21:07
Speaker 12: a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,
21:11
Speaker 12: one we covered many years ago was a guy who
21:13
Speaker 12: stood at the top of a staircase after having locked
21:16
Speaker 12: all the doors so the students couldn't get out. We
21:19
Speaker 12: call it like the fish in a barrel kind of
21:22
Speaker 12: mo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the
21:25
Speaker 12: feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.
21:29
Speaker 12: He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets
21:33
Speaker 12: over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection
21:37
Speaker 12: which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for
21:41
Speaker 12: the first time in his life. So he's trying to
21:43
Speaker 12: reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless, and at the
21:46
Speaker 12: bottom of society.
21:47
Speaker 11: To receive the Presidential Scholarship from Utah State University. The
21:51
Speaker 11: value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
21:55
Speaker 11: This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.
22:02
Speaker 5: Do you see you wearing a live shirt with a
22:04
Speaker 5: Murdan flag in the center, a dark baseball out in
22:08
Speaker 5: large sunglasses.
22:09
Speaker 6: He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what
22:13
Speaker 6: we see in those surveillance images, been changed back into
22:17
Speaker 6: the other outfit.
22:18
Speaker 1: He shoots and then he's off the buildings.
22:22
Speaker 5: Four days.
22:23
Speaker 1: Then we see him limping as he's walking through.
22:26
Speaker 2: He had a conscious subjective formal charges read in open court,
22:31
Speaker 2: but I'm more in those charges, in my mind, were predictable,
22:35
Speaker 2: although the state did get creative in the aggravating circumstances
22:40
Speaker 2: that they charged.
22:41
Speaker 1: It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder.
22:45
Speaker 2: Murder with quote aggravating circumstances and the significance of that.
22:49
Speaker 1: In order to see the death penalty, you have to.
22:52
Speaker 2: Include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,
22:59
Speaker 2: there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice
23:03
Speaker 2: joining us.
23:03
Speaker 1: Better than trial lawyer.
23:05
Speaker 2: They vary, but in every jurisdiction across our country, you
23:09
Speaker 2: have to have aggravating circumstances to seek the death penalty.
23:12
Speaker 1: In Cyburger, it was mass murder more than one body.
23:16
Speaker 1: It's mass murder.
23:18
Speaker 2: Here explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,
23:23
Speaker 2: in the charges, the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved,
23:28
Speaker 2: just like every element of the crime.
23:30
Speaker 8: NaNs, You're exactly right. You've got to prove every single element,
23:33
Speaker 8: because what happens is the jurors are going to get
23:36
Speaker 8: a jury instruction at some point in time, and it's
23:38
Speaker 8: going to have all these different elements and it's going
23:40
Speaker 8: to say unless you find beyond a reasonable doubt that
23:44
Speaker 8: every single element has been met, then you can't find
23:47
Speaker 8: him guilty of that charge. And so there is the
23:50
Speaker 8: issue with does the state meet these aggravating circumstances that
23:54
Speaker 8: gets them to the conviction, that gets them to the
23:57
Speaker 8: death penalty.
23:58
Speaker 2: So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go
24:03
Speaker 2: with murders, that's what we're talking about tonight, you have
24:07
Speaker 2: to prove who is the victim, that the indictment has
24:09
Speaker 2: the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction. You
24:13
Speaker 2: have to prove malice, the forethought, even if it's malice
24:16
Speaker 2: that lasts for a moment, the twinkling of an instant,
24:20
Speaker 2: the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.
24:27
Speaker 2: But when you seek the death penalty, you have to
24:30
Speaker 2: include these aggravating circumstances, and.
24:32
Speaker 1: Then they become an element of proof.
24:34
Speaker 2: You have to prove them, each element beyond a reasonable doubt.
24:40
Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may have to bring
24:43
Speaker 2: in a child to prove a child was.
24:47
Speaker 1: In harm's way. So we'll see how the state's going
24:51
Speaker 1: to prove it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
25:04
Speaker 2: Apparently, the woman that serves Robinson, said he was quiet
25:08
Speaker 2: and shy, but according to police, he was bold enough
25:12
Speaker 2: to pull off an assassination, taking an extremely difficult shot
25:18
Speaker 2: and gunning down a father and husband. So he turns
25:23
Speaker 2: up three hours away, chowing down the scene that.
25:27
Speaker 1: He had just left. Horrific.
25:31
Speaker 5: What happened on September eleven, twenty twenty five, the day
25:36
Speaker 5: after the shooting, Robinson's mother saw the photo and the
25:39
Speaker 5: shooter in the news and thought of the shooter looked
25:42
Speaker 5: like her son. Robinson's mother called her son and asked
25:51
Speaker 5: him where he was. He said he was at home sick,
25:55
Speaker 5: and that he had also been at home set on
25:58
Speaker 5: September tenth.
26:00
Speaker 2: Just a moment her money and Rodriguez joining US Daily Mail.
26:04
Speaker 2: He said he was home sick. What did he add?
26:06
Speaker 2: The dog ate my homework home sick.
26:09
Speaker 1: That's weak.
26:09
Speaker 9: These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if
26:12
Speaker 9: you imagine what his parents went through. As we just
26:15
Speaker 9: saw official saying apparently the day after the shooting, this
26:19
Speaker 9: mother looks at the images released by the FBI as
26:22
Speaker 9: they were hunting this person down.
26:24
Speaker 1: She thinks it looks like her son. Calls him.
26:27
Speaker 9: He says he's at home sick for the second day
26:30
Speaker 9: in a row.
26:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?
26:34
Speaker 2: If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball
26:37
Speaker 2: hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know
26:40
Speaker 2: it's them.
26:40
Speaker 10: Of course you would, Yeah, all of us would. There's
26:43
Speaker 10: no way that you're not going to recognize your child.
26:46
Speaker 10: I think the big thing here, you know, probably for
26:50
Speaker 10: this mother, and this is more of a doctor bethany issue.
26:53
Speaker 10: But what do you do with that information? You know,
26:57
Speaker 10: how does it Because you've been with him his entire life,
27:00
Speaker 10: so you know, again, she's going to call him up.
27:03
Speaker 10: She wants to confirm it. You know, do I believe
27:05
Speaker 10: my lying eyes? And it turns out that her eyes
27:08
Speaker 10: were not lying. In this case and answer, you know.
27:10
Speaker 1: What, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.
27:12
Speaker 2: How will this affect the parents going forward knowing they
27:17
Speaker 2: turned their son in?
27:20
Speaker 12: You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on
27:22
Speaker 12: the break and that sound where he has the thirty
27:25
Speaker 12: two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect
27:28
Speaker 12: is very flat.
27:30
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem excess. I did, so it's the mother
27:33
Speaker 1: that goes oooh, and.
27:35
Speaker 12: Then he kind of mimics the woo in a less
27:38
Speaker 12: sharp tone or less elevated tone. So I'm going to
27:41
Speaker 12: guess that this mother has a long history of trying
27:45
Speaker 12: to pump her son up to act normal in society.
27:50
Speaker 12: So when she sees this image of him, I don't
27:52
Speaker 12: think is as much of a shock as you and
27:54
Speaker 12: I might think. I would guess, you know how parents
27:57
Speaker 12: know their children that they've always known and something is wrong,
28:01
Speaker 12: and they're always waiting for the other.
28:03
Speaker 1: Shoe to drop.
28:05
Speaker 12: She sees the image, it's confirmed, she calls dad, Reality
28:09
Speaker 12: meets internal fearfulness, and now she's the one who has
28:14
Speaker 12: to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy, She's going to
28:17
Speaker 12: feel maternal guilt.
28:19
Speaker 1: Not only that she turned him.
28:20
Speaker 12: In, but that she gave birth to somebody who could
28:23
Speaker 12: have done this, and she'll blame herself for having raised
28:27
Speaker 12: him in the wrong way. Although we know these kinds
28:29
Speaker 12: of disorders are very biologically based, it is not the
28:33
Speaker 12: parent's fault.
28:34
Speaker 1: Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay,
28:40
Speaker 1: I think what you said is the mother.
28:44
Speaker 2: Has likely spent her whole life trying to present to
28:48
Speaker 2: the world antie herself and her son is normal. And
28:51
Speaker 2: I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he clearly
28:53
Speaker 2: knew what he did was wrong. He planned it, he
28:56
Speaker 2: concealed it, then he covered it up afterwards as evidence
28:59
Speaker 2: of guilty.
29:00
Speaker 1: He knew it was wrong.
29:01
Speaker 2: But mom compensating, saying, look, he won a scholarship, he's
29:06
Speaker 2: so smart. Look this he, you know, is a boy scout.
29:10
Speaker 2: Look he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts
29:12
Speaker 2: the grass. I love him, he's wonderful. All that while
29:16
Speaker 2: knowing something is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.
29:22
Speaker 12: Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I,
29:26
Speaker 12: obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if
29:28
Speaker 12: he's asocip path. But let's see theoretically, if he was,
29:32
Speaker 12: the mother would likely have noticed many things.
29:35
Speaker 1: Look look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.
29:38
Speaker 2: I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,
29:41
Speaker 2: and I always wonder I look at people with like
29:44
Speaker 2: a six bedroom home worth over a half a million dollars.
29:47
Speaker 2: They're all going to college, they have great jobs.
29:50
Speaker 1: What's nothing to be happy about? I don't I don't
29:53
Speaker 1: get it, Dr Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.
29:56
Speaker 1: But you know I got a family, I've got a home,
30:00
Speaker 1: I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.
30:04
Speaker 1: I'm on top of the world. I don't get it, Bethany.
30:08
Speaker 1: But we know that this guy was supremely unhappy.
30:11
Speaker 12: He was so unhappy he couldn't even follow through with
30:15
Speaker 12: a scholarship, so unhappy that he can't even smile when
30:19
Speaker 12: he gets the scholarship. Nancy, this has nothing to do
30:22
Speaker 12: with his upbringing or his family. I can say that
30:24
Speaker 12: fairly confidently, even without knowing them. This type of disorder
30:29
Speaker 12: is what we call psycho biological, meaning, to break it down,
30:34
Speaker 12: there's something wrong with his brain.
30:36
Speaker 1: If you did a brain.
30:36
Speaker 12: Scan, you would probably see that there's a there's a
30:40
Speaker 12: quieting in the part of the brain that's responsible for empathy.
30:44
Speaker 12: You might even see like a Coburger syndrome of bullying
30:48
Speaker 12: other people and wanting to be in a one up position.
30:51
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm not going to let you go
30:54
Speaker 2: down the Aaron Hernandez route where they climb the defense climbed.
30:59
Speaker 2: He he'll so murdered so many people because there was
31:03
Speaker 2: something wrong with his brain. When he functioned completely normally
31:08
Speaker 2: and excelled, it was a multi millionaire, blew it.
31:13
Speaker 1: No no, no, But as he just going to be
31:16
Speaker 1: in defense, this.
31:17
Speaker 12: Guy was not functioning normally. He was on top of
31:20
Speaker 12: that building sweating, depositing all this DNA. In the text,
31:25
Speaker 12: we read that he wants to take the secret with
31:28
Speaker 12: him till old age, so he actually thinks he's going
31:33
Speaker 12: to get away with this.
31:35
Speaker 1: That is something seriously wrong with the rise Pa. Please
31:39
Speaker 1: get her back in the middle of the road and
31:40
Speaker 1: out of the weeds.
31:41
Speaker 2: All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room
31:44
Speaker 2: and they're not going to get caught.
31:46
Speaker 1: They all think that sure, it's not special.
31:49
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's why it's been proven. The definitely doesn't work
31:52
Speaker 8: because it's not a term for people to not commit
31:54
Speaker 8: crimes because they don't think about I'm never going to
31:57
Speaker 8: get caught, so their final have to worry about getting
31:59
Speaker 8: shot a firing squad.
32:01
Speaker 1: Mister Robinson.
32:02
Speaker 13: I also wish to inform you of your rights against
32:05
Speaker 13: self incrimination. Anything that you say in court today could
32:09
Speaker 13: be used against you, and we want to protect your
32:11
Speaker 13: constitutional rights, mister Robinson. At this time, you will remain
32:17
Speaker 13: in custody without bail.
32:19
Speaker 5: Robinson's mother expressed a concern to her husband as a
32:23
Speaker 5: suspect shooter leve light love and say Robinson's father I
32:27
Speaker 5: grew Robinson's father explained that over the last year or so,
32:32
Speaker 5: Robinson had become more political and had started to lean
32:37
Speaker 5: more to the.
32:38
Speaker 2: Left, as if somehow being left wing means that you're
32:43
Speaker 2: gonna gun somebody down at long range. I think the
32:48
Speaker 2: significance of the mom saying the allegislator had become more
32:53
Speaker 2: political and left leaning was it was a departure from
32:57
Speaker 2: the family values and what he had been his whole
33:00
Speaker 2: life up until that point. Now, we heard last night
33:04
Speaker 2: that a relative of the roommate blames the roommate for
33:11
Speaker 2: radicalizing the defendant but the reality is is it doesn't
33:17
Speaker 2: matter who persuaded him. It doesn't matter. He did this
33:23
Speaker 2: shooting of his own volition. Many people have wondered did
33:27
Speaker 2: his parents know of his relationship with his roommate.
33:32
Speaker 1: Yes, they did. Listen.
33:34
Speaker 5: She said that Robinson began and day in his roommate,
33:37
Speaker 5: a biological mail whose present transition and generous. This resulted
33:43
Speaker 5: in several discussions with family in person, but especially between
33:48
Speaker 5: Robinson and his father, who had very different political views.
33:53
Speaker 5: In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie
33:57
Speaker 5: Curry would be holding you, which Robinson said was a
34:04
Speaker 5: sup academy for the investment. Robinson accused currently of spreading
34:10
Speaker 5: the page.
34:11
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving
34:17
Speaker 2: father of two, a husband has turned into an argument
34:22
Speaker 2: about furries and trans Sidney s'moner joining me, crime stories,
34:27
Speaker 2: investigative reporter.
34:29
Speaker 1: None of that matters. It doesn't matter.
34:33
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,
34:35
Speaker 2: if he was by, if he was trans. None of
34:38
Speaker 2: that bears on the elements approving a murder case.
34:42
Speaker 1: How did that take? Center?
34:44
Speaker 6: Stave sid Well some interesting bullet and graevings, and we're
34:49
Speaker 6: learning more about those. So at first we maybe thought
34:53
Speaker 6: that this was a reference that Robinson was a furry
34:58
Speaker 6: was part of one of these counter culture groups. But
35:01
Speaker 6: it seems like now, based on his text to his boyfriend,
35:07
Speaker 6: that Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his
35:12
Speaker 6: references to the furry group notices bulge uwu ou Wu,
35:20
Speaker 6: it was just a joke and it didn't mean anything.
35:23
Speaker 6: So that's why this took such a big part of
35:26
Speaker 6: this was we thought that he was making some kind
35:29
Speaker 6: of statement with these bullet inscriptions.
35:32
Speaker 1: Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just
35:35
Speaker 1: a joke? Sydney Summer.
35:36
Speaker 14: According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate Sydney.
35:40
Speaker 14: The engravings that you are suggesting are just a joke.
35:43
Speaker 14: We're on the bullets used to murder an innocent person.
35:51
Speaker 14: So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.
35:56
Speaker 15: Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are
36:01
Speaker 15: mostly a big meme.
36:03
Speaker 1: If I see.
36:04
Speaker 15: Notices bulge Uwu on Fox News, I might have a stroke.
36:09
Speaker 15: All Right, I'm going to have to leave it.
36:12
Speaker 1: That really sucks.
36:14
Speaker 15: Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine.
36:18
Speaker 8: I don't know.
36:19
Speaker 15: I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete
36:23
Speaker 15: this exchange.
36:24
Speaker 2: So this is an exchange that the religious shooter, the
36:29
Speaker 2: Kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner, as the
36:34
Speaker 2: roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving
36:40
Speaker 2: the bullets? Whoa whoa Wait a minute, number one, what
36:44
Speaker 2: psycho engravece the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigi Mangioni.
36:48
Speaker 2: But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was
36:53
Speaker 2: there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.
36:56
Speaker 1: Hello, accomplice, codefendant.
36:59
Speaker 8: The problem, Nancy. They need that roommate in their case
37:03
Speaker 8: because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk killer,
37:08
Speaker 8: the Kirk shooter to those text messages. They need to
37:11
Speaker 8: keep that roommate, that love interest happy. They need to
37:14
Speaker 8: keep them close because that's going to be probably one
37:17
Speaker 8: of their first witnesses.
37:18
Speaker 1: So I hear what you're saying, Randolph.
37:23
Speaker 2: The two are not mutually exclusive. You can get his
37:26
Speaker 2: testimony and charge him as an accomplished to murder at
37:30
Speaker 2: the same time.
37:31
Speaker 1: In fact, let me.
37:34
Speaker 2: Guess, does your wife do all the cooking in the home.
37:36
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer. I would let
37:39
Speaker 2: the roommate have a few months behind bars to see
37:43
Speaker 2: if that jogs his recollection, so he can be a
37:48
Speaker 2: co defendant and a witness at the same time.
37:52
Speaker 1: What about that thought he can.
37:54
Speaker 8: But remember, you've got to put this in front of
37:57
Speaker 8: a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because
38:00
Speaker 8: under your scenario, if you put him in jail and
38:02
Speaker 8: all of a sudden, the defense turn says, hey, you've
38:05
Speaker 8: been sitting in jail. The prosecutor puts you there, so
38:07
Speaker 8: you feel like you're forced to tell this story that
38:10
Speaker 8: doesn't look good in front of the jury.
38:13
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue
38:17
Speaker 1: in the face. Randolph Rice.
38:20
Speaker 2: The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,
38:23
Speaker 2: and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven.
38:27
Speaker 1: Guilty in a court of law.
38:30
Speaker 2: That said, of course, the code defendant goes to jail,
38:33
Speaker 2: that's not unique. That said, what do you make of
38:37
Speaker 2: that text? My original question before you went off with
38:39
Speaker 2: your pity party about the roommate going to jail, that
38:43
Speaker 2: shows me that he was there. The roommate was there,
38:47
Speaker 2: and would recall the defendant engraving bullets, and don't you
38:52
Speaker 2: imagine you would go, Hi, Tyler Robinson, why are you
38:56
Speaker 2: engraving bullets?
38:58
Speaker 1: I would so? Are you telling me now he had
39:01
Speaker 1: no idea what was happening?
39:02
Speaker 8: No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge
39:05
Speaker 8: of what was going on. And I think that there's
39:06
Speaker 8: a potential that the roommates charged, And you're exactly right
39:09
Speaker 8: on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.
39:12
Speaker 8: But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think
39:14
Speaker 8: you certainly have that ability to charge them with knowing
39:17
Speaker 8: what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you
39:20
Speaker 8: charge them what happened after? And then the text messages
39:24
Speaker 8: that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.
39:26
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,
39:30
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet.
39:33
Speaker 1: It sounds like trying to thread three needles at once.
39:36
Speaker 1: How do you engrave a bullet?
39:38
Speaker 7: Well, there's a couple of ways of doing it, Nancy.
39:40
Speaker 7: You can use, you know, a handheld engraver. But let's
39:44
Speaker 7: also take a hard look at the messaging here, right.
39:48
Speaker 2: You just happened to have a hand held engraver in
39:52
Speaker 2: your tool pocket? Who would have your hand held engraver?
39:57
Speaker 2: You know what, step back and punt.
39:59
Speaker 1: You have anything else for me?
40:00
Speaker 7: Yeah you can. You can buy that really simple at
40:04
Speaker 7: home depot. But also recognize that he says mostly the
40:10
Speaker 7: FN messages.
40:11
Speaker 8: Were mostly a big mean I e.
40:14
Speaker 7: There's another messaging in the showcasing or the the cartridges
40:18
Speaker 7: that were recovered the they only recovered the well. They
40:23
Speaker 7: didn't find any showcasing on the on the roof, so
40:26
Speaker 7: that means a it was either left in.
40:28
Speaker 8: The bolt of the of the weapon and.
40:30
Speaker 7: Then the three in the magazine show. The fact that
40:34
Speaker 7: he was engraving a message on those cartridges tells us
40:41
Speaker 7: there's a bigger story.
40:49
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. Okay, I know you want
40:57
Speaker 1: to know.
40:58
Speaker 2: Robinson ordered a large medium rear surloin vegetables on the
41:04
Speaker 2: side and a baked potato m Apparently committee murder did
41:13
Speaker 2: not affect his appetite. The Charlie Kirk shooting caused shot
41:19
Speaker 2: waves across our country.
41:21
Speaker 1: This is what happened.
41:23
Speaker 2: If you don't happen to be one of those people
41:25
Speaker 2: that have a home hand engraver, then how.
41:30
Speaker 1: Would you do it with a knife.
41:32
Speaker 4: How do you do that?
41:33
Speaker 1: And it's got to be legible because these were easily read.
41:36
Speaker 10: Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact
41:39
Speaker 10: this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've
41:41
Speaker 10: had a couple. If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at
41:45
Speaker 10: mass a few weeks ago, that individual wrote these kind
41:48
Speaker 10: of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was
41:53
Speaker 10: with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,
41:56
Speaker 10: you have to get something that is you know, I
41:59
Speaker 10: think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue, we use
42:02
Speaker 10: what'd referred to as diamond engravers to mark the bases
42:06
Speaker 10: of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.
42:11
Speaker 10: You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went
42:14
Speaker 10: that far.
42:14
Speaker 2: And the problem is this, wait wait, I was about
42:16
Speaker 2: to mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.
42:20
Speaker 2: Didn't he work as an electrician or as an electric electricians?
42:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that tool he.
42:27
Speaker 10: Very well might, or he could have some semblance of that.
42:30
Speaker 10: That would be What you have to have is a
42:33
Speaker 10: metallic body that will mark on brass, because this is brass.
42:37
Speaker 10: It's one of the softest metals that's out there and
42:40
Speaker 10: people doing grave You know, soldiers have been doing it
42:43
Speaker 10: for years and years. I wonder where you got this
42:45
Speaker 10: idea from. But you know what I'm more interested in, Nancy,
42:49
Speaker 10: not just the engraving. I'm fascinated by the fact that
42:53
Speaker 10: this guy, according to the presser, not only left engravings
42:57
Speaker 10: to mark these rounds, but he also left his DNA
43:01
Speaker 10: on specific components within the weapon, even the trigger. Nancy,
43:07
Speaker 10: this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.
43:09
Speaker 2: When you say within the weapon that you're right, where
43:13
Speaker 2: did authorities find DNA?
43:15
Speaker 1: And they found a lot of it?
43:16
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the
43:19
Speaker 10: trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface
43:24
Speaker 10: of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched
43:26
Speaker 10: DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has
43:30
Speaker 10: what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like
43:33
Speaker 10: the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have
43:36
Speaker 10: to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to
43:39
Speaker 10: take your thumb and press these rounds into that in
43:43
Speaker 10: dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where
43:47
Speaker 10: you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface
43:50
Speaker 10: of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of
43:53
Speaker 10: these areas you can deposit DNA, and let's face it,
43:58
Speaker 10: he had this thing wrapped in a towel. He's got
44:00
Speaker 10: to sing in kind of a pristine condition he's left
44:02
Speaker 10: it in, so you know, they had a field day
44:05
Speaker 10: when they got their hands on the thing in the lab.
44:07
Speaker 5: Police Karony Robinson the room made a file on to
44:12
Speaker 5: Gumel was involved in a remantic relationship with Robin, said
44:17
Speaker 5: the roommate told the police that the roommate and received
44:20
Speaker 5: messages for rob and said about the shooting, and he
44:24
Speaker 5: had provide those messages to police.
44:28
Speaker 15: I can get close to it, but there's a squad
44:30
Speaker 15: car parked right by it. I think they already swept
44:33
Speaker 15: that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm
44:36
Speaker 15: wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon
44:38
Speaker 15: as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my
44:40
Speaker 15: old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.
44:44
Speaker 15: I don't even know if it had a serial number,
44:48
Speaker 15: but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.
44:51
Speaker 15: I had to leave it in a bush where I
44:53
Speaker 15: changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring
44:57
Speaker 15: it with I might have to abandon it, and I
45:00
Speaker 15: hope they don't find prints. How the will I explain
45:04
Speaker 15: losing it to.
45:04
Speaker 1: My old man?
45:06
Speaker 2: I think he needs to get his priority straight. He's
45:09
Speaker 2: worried about his dad being mad he lost the grandpa's gun.
45:15
Speaker 1: What about the death penalty?
45:17
Speaker 5: That?
45:19
Speaker 1: What is he thinking?
45:19
Speaker 2: DoD Bethony Marshall And did you notice this is a
45:24
Speaker 2: recreay of all of the texts the alleged slator sends
45:29
Speaker 2: to the room. If you notice, roommate's not answering, He's like, what,
45:34
Speaker 2: But the guy's worried about losing grandpa's gun.
45:38
Speaker 12: Nancy, I'd love to talk about the idea that he
45:40
Speaker 12: thinks that what's on the bullets are a meme. A
45:44
Speaker 12: meme is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity
45:48
Speaker 12: of the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes
45:52
Speaker 12: viral and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of
45:56
Speaker 12: being famous, like being some kind.
45:59
Speaker 1: Of a hero. The reference to the bulge. I take
46:03
Speaker 1: all of this seriously. None of it is a joke.
46:06
Speaker 12: The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.
46:11
Speaker 12: If he were my patient, I would ask him What
46:14
Speaker 12: is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet
46:20
Speaker 12: over a crowd of family and children. Is it that
46:24
Speaker 12: sadism is exciting? Having power over people is exciting. I'd
46:28
Speaker 12: want to try to get to the root of that,
46:30
Speaker 12: to understand this guy's mind.
46:32
Speaker 1: You know what, There's so much happening in this case.
46:35
Speaker 2: You remember the old guy at the get go that
46:38
Speaker 2: claims he was responsible for the shooting.
46:41
Speaker 1: I did it. I did it, raising both hands.
46:43
Speaker 2: Now, saying that he was just trying to give the
46:46
Speaker 2: real shooter a chance to get away. Okay, listen to
46:51
Speaker 2: what the alleged sheeter says about that.
46:53
Speaker 1: I thought they caught the person.
46:55
Speaker 15: No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone
46:58
Speaker 15: in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle
47:01
Speaker 15: from my drop points shortly after, but most of that
47:04
Speaker 15: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough
47:07
Speaker 15: to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering why why
47:10
Speaker 15: did I do it?
47:11
Speaker 6: Yeah?
47:12
Speaker 15: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be
47:14
Speaker 15: negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,
47:18
Speaker 15: I will have left no evidence going to attempt to
47:21
Speaker 15: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
47:24
Speaker 15: seen anything about them finding it.
47:25
Speaker 1: How long have you been planning this? A bit over
47:28
Speaker 1: a week, I believe so.
47:29
Speaker 2: Much for the insanity defense. He had this thing planned
47:32
Speaker 2: out cold. But my point is George Zen, the one
47:37
Speaker 2: that threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he did it.
47:40
Speaker 1: He was arrested.
47:41
Speaker 2: Now everybody's trashing the FBI director for arresting him.
47:46
Speaker 1: He said he did it. Well, there's a sad sat
47:48
Speaker 1: right there.
47:49
Speaker 2: Okay, bombshell Harmania Rodriguez. George Zen has caught a few
47:54
Speaker 2: charges himself, hasn't he.
47:56
Speaker 9: Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.
47:59
Speaker 9: As he said, right after the shooting, this man was
48:02
Speaker 9: film saying I shot him.
48:04
Speaker 1: I shot him.
48:05
Speaker 9: Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to
48:08
Speaker 9: give the actual shooter time to get away. We have
48:12
Speaker 9: learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble
48:15
Speaker 9: in the area, and he's now.
48:16
Speaker 1: Charged with child pornography. That just tribled off your tongue.
48:20
Speaker 1: Did you just say child pornogracy? Correct?
48:24
Speaker 9: After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.
48:29
Speaker 9: Days later, he has been charged with this crime.
48:32
Speaker 13: So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.
48:35
Speaker 13: If you cannot afford one, the court can appoint in
48:37
Speaker 13: turning to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of
48:41
Speaker 13: financial status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually
48:46
Speaker 13: provisionally appointing a rule A qualified attorney to represent you
48:51
Speaker 13: on your case, mister Robinson, along with their filing of
48:54
Speaker 13: their appearance of counsel. The assigned attorneys must file declarations
48:58
Speaker 13: with the court to outline their qualifications under Rule eight
49:03
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C. I'm sorry under Rule eight B
49:06
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C for council appointment in a case
49:09
Speaker 13: where death may be a sentencing option.
49:13
Speaker 2: When the photo of the shooter was released disseminated to
49:16
Speaker 2: the public, the server at the restaurant was certain that
49:20
Speaker 2: was the same person that eight at the Mom and
49:23
Speaker 2: Pop the night of the shootings, and it was immediately
49:26
Speaker 2: turned over to the FBI. The restaurant owner and two
49:30
Speaker 2: employees were questioned by federal agents. Digits of the credit
49:34
Speaker 2: card used to pay for this steakfest were handed over
49:38
Speaker 2: to the FBI. So, a thirty one year old married
49:41
Speaker 2: father of two gunned down dead at the Utah Valley
49:47
Speaker 2: University and he's having a steak dinner. Robinson now facing
49:54
Speaker 2: seven felony charges of aggravated murder, discharge of a firearm
49:58
Speaker 2: causing serious body injury, obstruction of justice to council witness, tampering,
50:04
Speaker 2: and commission of a violent fence in the presence of
50:08
Speaker 2: a child. Robin's behind bars awaiting trial. He could face
50:14
Speaker 2: the death penalty by firing squad if convicted. Utah is
50:18
Speaker 2: one of the five states that still allowed the firing squad.
50:22
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds.
50:25
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friends,