Latest / The Bill Handel Show / ‘Tech Tuesday’ with Rich DeMuro | Fed. Defense Lawyer Michael Zweiback

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‘Tech Tuesday’ with Rich DeMuro | Fed. Defense Lawyer Michael Zweiback · The Bill Handel Show

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bill Handle on demand from KFI AM
0:04
Speaker 1: six forty.
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Speaker 2: KFI AM six forty Bill Handle.
0:11
Speaker 1: Here.
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Speaker 3: It is a Tuesday morning, January sixth. You know, it's
0:15
Speaker 3: been five years since January sixth, and there's a hearing
0:21
Speaker 3: going on in Capitol Hill, all Democrats talking about the
0:26
Speaker 3: aftermath of what happened and what happened that day. Kind
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Speaker 3: of interesting obviously, to say the lease and some of
0:33
Speaker 3: the other big stories that we're covering is the big one,
0:36
Speaker 3: of course, Benezuela, a leader, former leader Nicholas Maduro and
0:39
Speaker 3: his wife. They pled not guilty yesterday to drug and
0:43
Speaker 3: weapons charges in their first court of parents and that's
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Speaker 3: going to be going on. As a matter of fact,
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Speaker 3: I'm going to talk more about that at eight thirty
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Speaker 3: with Michael's wee back friend of mine who happens to
0:53
Speaker 3: be a federal criminal defense attorney and he's been on
0:58
Speaker 3: both sides too, so we'll talk to him. But now
1:01
Speaker 3: it is time for Rich Tomorrow, which we do every Tuesday.
1:04
Speaker 3: And Rich, you are at cees, which you do every year.
1:09
Speaker 3: You and one hundred and thirty thousand of your best
1:11
Speaker 3: friends are there. Rich heard every Saturday right here on KFI.
1:19
Speaker 2: All right, Rich, let's do it.
1:22
Speaker 3: You're at CS one hundred and thirty thousand people there,
1:25
Speaker 3: I don't know how many thousands of exhibits. What have
1:27
Speaker 3: you seen that has knocked you on your butt?
1:32
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing about CES. It is. Yes, like
1:35
Speaker 1: you said, it's a big show. There's a ton to see.
1:38
Speaker 1: You can't see it all, that's number one. But you
1:41
Speaker 1: do your best. So I've been walking an average of
1:44
Speaker 1: about twenty two thousand steps the first two days. And
1:47
Speaker 1: by the way, the show floor hasn't even opened. It
1:49
Speaker 1: actually opens this morning, so they do you know, not
1:53
Speaker 1: only does the convention center get filled up, but then
1:55
Speaker 1: all these companies rent out rooms in pretty much every
1:58
Speaker 1: hotel surrounding the strip and have you know, they all
2:02
Speaker 1: want to get you there. So that's really what I
2:04
Speaker 1: did for the past two days. You just go to
2:05
Speaker 1: all these different meetings and they have these smaller shows.
2:08
Speaker 1: It's a whole wild thing, a couple of things. So
2:11
Speaker 1: number one AI is making its way into everything. We
2:14
Speaker 1: know that, Bill. I don't know if you remember this thing.
2:16
Speaker 1: Do you remember a thing called the flow be back
2:18
Speaker 1: in the day it would give you a haircut?
2:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do actually okay.
2:23
Speaker 1: So they've got this new device called the Glide, which
2:27
Speaker 1: I called the high tech AI version of the flow be.
2:30
Speaker 1: So you take this barbershop clipper and you use the
2:34
Speaker 1: app to say what kind of haircut you want, and
2:36
Speaker 1: you just roll it on your head and it automatically
2:39
Speaker 1: adjusts the length of the clipper based on your head
2:43
Speaker 1: and the AI so you can give yourself your own
2:46
Speaker 1: haircut with this Glide device. I did press the company
2:50
Speaker 1: a little bit. I said, come on, this is not
2:51
Speaker 1: something everyone could do, and they said, well, we admit
2:54
Speaker 1: that the sides are definitely easier than the back. So
2:57
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see the mullet come back.
2:59
Speaker 3: Oh that would be fantastic. And by the way it
3:01
Speaker 3: slices and dices, isn't it In addition to okay.
3:04
Speaker 1: You're here speaking of that slicing and dicing. Perfect segue
3:09
Speaker 1: to my next gadget. Have you ever heard of an
3:12
Speaker 1: ultrasonic knife?
3:16
Speaker 3: Not an ultrasonic knife. I know that there are knives
3:19
Speaker 3: that move. I have a razor that I use a
3:22
Speaker 3: Gillette to shave, and it has and it buzzes in
3:26
Speaker 3: you know, zillion times a second, and it just works better.
3:30
Speaker 2: But not ultrasonic guy, So explain that one.
3:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this one, this is from Seattle Ultrasonics. That's
3:37
Speaker 1: a chef knife for your house. It's the first of
3:40
Speaker 1: its kind. And the guy spent six years. He'sought it
3:43
Speaker 1: was gonna take him six months to figure this out.
3:44
Speaker 1: It took them six years to figure it out. The
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Speaker 1: knife vibrates about forty thousand times per second, so the blade.
3:51
Speaker 1: I tried it cutting through a tomato and it can
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Speaker 1: help people, you know, cut with less force, so fifty
3:56
Speaker 1: percent less force and everything glides off. So if you're
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Speaker 1: cutting through cheese or something like that, you know, if
4:01
Speaker 1: you're cutting the cheese. OK, didn't realize that.
4:04
Speaker 3: Thank goodness, this is radio So that works, doesn't it. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: I'm just curious because, yeah, because I do a lot
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Speaker 3: of slicing and dicing. How much is this puppy? Is
4:14
Speaker 3: it for sale yet?
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Speaker 2: Oh?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? Three hundred and fifty for the knife, one hundred
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Speaker 1: and fifty for the charging station. You know, it's one
4:22
Speaker 1: of those things where I put it in that category
4:24
Speaker 1: of it's brand new right now, Like do you remember
4:26
Speaker 1: when the Sonic Care toothbrush came out, you know, thirty
4:29
Speaker 1: years ago? It was super expensive. It was high tech.
4:31
Speaker 1: Now every toothbrush and like you said, your razor vibrates,
4:34
Speaker 1: you know, but this is ultra sonic. So it's gonna
4:36
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna be a little bit higher end
4:38
Speaker 1: than anything else out there.
4:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I certainly want to spend five hundred dollars to
4:42
Speaker 3: cut a tomato. Yeah, that makes sense. What about dinner? Yeah, yeah,
4:48
Speaker 3: no kidding. We always talk about this, and I always
4:52
Speaker 3: ask you this, What products have that just floored you
4:57
Speaker 3: and you went, wow, that's terrific.
4:59
Speaker 2: That's one question. I know we get some years and
5:02
Speaker 2: some years pretty good.
5:04
Speaker 3: And are there any blow you away new technology? For example,
5:09
Speaker 3: when the iPhone came out, I mean that was massive,
5:12
Speaker 3: beyond massive.
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Speaker 2: Anything close to that happening, I.
5:16
Speaker 1: Haven't seen anything close to that just yet. I mean, really,
5:20
Speaker 1: this year it's all about the AI. And the thing
5:22
Speaker 1: about AI is that it's not necessarily a new product.
5:26
Speaker 1: It's really just a new way of using the product.
5:28
Speaker 1: So I'll give you one example that I'm seeing over
5:30
Speaker 1: and over now with these TVs. Almost all the major
5:34
Speaker 1: manufacturers are now using AI to let you enhance the dialogue.
5:39
Speaker 1: So one of the biggest problems with TV. You're watching
5:41
Speaker 1: a movie or a TV show, you can barely hear
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Speaker 1: what the people are saying for some reason. And so
5:45
Speaker 1: now I saw a both at Samsung and Google. They're
5:49
Speaker 1: both using technology that lets you separate that speech track
5:53
Speaker 1: and just hear that. And so that's one example of
5:56
Speaker 1: something that's kind of cool. It's not like mind boggling,
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Speaker 1: but it's like, Okay, that could be very helpful for
6:01
Speaker 1: a lot of people that can't necessarily hear what's being
6:04
Speaker 1: said on the screen, and it just separates that dialogue
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Speaker 1: and it's just one more use of AI out there.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is why God invented subtitles, because yeah,
6:14
Speaker 3: over fifty percent of us, and I didn't know this
6:16
Speaker 3: in the United States actually watched TV with subtitles.
6:19
Speaker 1: I do.
6:21
Speaker 3: I watch every show, and now there are certain shows
6:24
Speaker 3: that you have to have subtitles to watch, Peaky Blinders
6:27
Speaker 3: being one of them. Phenomenal show. It's I think I
6:31
Speaker 3: out of Ireland. You cannot understand one word they say,
6:36
Speaker 3: and it's supposed to be English, but in general, and
6:40
Speaker 3: you know, here is with the I'm moving into this
6:44
Speaker 3: because I'm just fascinated by this, and that is a subtitles.
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Speaker 3: It's real time subtitling, and it's an algorithm that does
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Speaker 3: this correct.
6:54
Speaker 1: Depends on what you're watching. But yes, AI has definitely
6:57
Speaker 1: done a lot for news and live programming with AI
7:00
Speaker 1: with subtitles, for sure.
7:02
Speaker 3: There you are at CES and you've been able to
7:05
Speaker 3: cover a whole lot of it. When one of the
7:09
Speaker 3: questions I always ask you is what were the most
7:13
Speaker 3: impressive products that you saw? And the other side of it,
7:17
Speaker 3: what were the ones that were so stupid you couldn't
7:20
Speaker 3: believe it?
7:21
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, oh my Okay, So last night we saw
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Speaker 1: a product and this is not stupid. This is I mean,
7:28
Speaker 1: this is silly, but it's interesting. We saw a product
7:32
Speaker 1: that you put in your toilet and it tests your
7:37
Speaker 1: urination for hydration. Oh.
7:42
Speaker 3: I think absolutely, that's not silly when you think about it,
7:45
Speaker 3: that's not you know, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.
7:49
Speaker 1: The idea, Yeah, I just I've just seen the idea
7:52
Speaker 1: of the smart toilet is really taking off, because I mean,
7:57
Speaker 1: it's just it's silly to talk about, but you know,
7:59
Speaker 1: your flush down all of this vital information, and we've
8:02
Speaker 1: gotten so obsessed with tracking metrics and health stats, you know,
8:08
Speaker 1: with these rings and these watches and people. You know,
8:11
Speaker 1: I saw two different versions of glucose monitoring for the
8:14
Speaker 1: everyday person, not for someone with diabetes. So there's now
8:18
Speaker 1: these arm patches you can put on and they talk
8:20
Speaker 1: to your phone and they show you, you know, your
8:22
Speaker 1: blood sugar levels throughout the day. So we're really seeing
8:25
Speaker 1: a trend of basically everyone wants to have every health
8:28
Speaker 1: stat they can. And yeah, so we saw we're seeing
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Speaker 1: smart toilets that measure all kinds of things like urination
8:37
Speaker 1: for hydration, which they said is very important. It's a
8:39
Speaker 1: very important marker of your health.
8:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it is, or at least I'm
8:43
Speaker 3: told it is by doctor Jim who's with us every week.
8:48
Speaker 3: Here's a fun one that I want you to talk about.
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Speaker 2: Now.
8:51
Speaker 3: You saw this, right, Jenny, the therapeutic robotic dog that's
8:58
Speaker 3: supposed to be a what else a lap dog?
9:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now this is an example of one of those
9:04
Speaker 1: things that you see and you're like, Okay, give me
9:06
Speaker 1: a break. Who needs a fake dog? Right, like we've
9:09
Speaker 1: seen so many. Then when you hear the story behind it.
9:12
Speaker 1: It's a company called Tombot. They're actually out of the
9:15
Speaker 1: La area. They are making this thing called Jenny, and
9:18
Speaker 1: it's a it's like you said, it's a lap dog.
9:21
Speaker 1: It doesn't walk, it doesn't you know, it doesn't really talk.
9:24
Speaker 1: But it's for people with dementia or Alzheimer's. So it's
9:28
Speaker 1: for people that you know, want a dog or want
9:31
Speaker 1: a companion, but they can't have a companion, know, for
9:33
Speaker 1: safety reasons or for you know, they just simply can't
9:36
Speaker 1: care for it. And this company went to great lengths
9:39
Speaker 1: to develop this thing. They worked with Jim Henson's creature shop.
9:43
Speaker 1: So I'm not kidding Bill. When I saw this dog,
9:45
Speaker 1: you have an emotional connection with it, unlike any robot
9:49
Speaker 1: I've ever seen before. Just the way it moves, the eyes,
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Speaker 1: the tail, it's soft, it's cuddly, it responds to all
9:57
Speaker 1: kinds of touch and commands. And the only thing I
10:01
Speaker 1: will say is that I did. I did hold it.
10:03
Speaker 1: And again it's not for it's for your lap so
10:05
Speaker 1: you're supposed to sort of pet it. But this thing
10:08
Speaker 1: shed all over me just like a real dog, which
10:10
Speaker 1: I thought was kind of funny.
10:13
Speaker 2: And do we have prices on this stuff?
10:14
Speaker 3: I know your tomato cutter came in at five hundred
10:17
Speaker 3: dollars for the cutter itself, the knife, and the charging station,
10:23
Speaker 3: which I thought was kind of neat any idea with
10:25
Speaker 3: this stuff costs and because the technology is well, let
10:29
Speaker 3: me ask you exactly, is the technology really high end
10:32
Speaker 3: or is.
10:32
Speaker 2: It basically off the shelf stuff that you can get now.
10:36
Speaker 1: I think the Jenny technology, this robot dog is pretty
10:39
Speaker 1: high end stuff. This is a you know, robotics company,
10:43
Speaker 1: and I think that they did a pretty good job. Now, again,
10:46
Speaker 1: it's not moving it, it's not walking, so it's not
10:48
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen a thousand robots. You know, you've
10:50
Speaker 1: seen those Atlas robots that look like a dog that
10:53
Speaker 1: kind of move around. They're very nimble. That's a whole
10:55
Speaker 1: different level. This robot is selling for about fifteen hundred dollars.
11:00
Speaker 1: This this pet robot, which I know sounds expensive. But Bill,
11:04
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever had a dog, but
11:06
Speaker 1: you know, my dog had a problem with it's toenail.
11:08
Speaker 1: Once one call of the vet, Yeah, come on in
11:11
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars later, Okay, your dog's your dog's back
11:14
Speaker 1: to good again. So dogs are not cheap either.
11:17
Speaker 3: No, but if someone has that advanced in Alzheimer's, you
11:20
Speaker 3: just buy a fluffy slipper and I just say, here,
11:24
Speaker 3: this is your dog, and that will run you two
11:28
Speaker 3: cents at Walmart.
11:31
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, Let me tell you about a
11:33
Speaker 1: silly one. Let me tell you about a silly one.
11:35
Speaker 1: Because this this I don't know you. Maybe I'm wrong
11:38
Speaker 1: on this, but this is like one of those things
11:40
Speaker 1: where I look at it, I'm like, come on, really, Now,
11:43
Speaker 1: you know you've got the CA Cup machine, You've got
11:45
Speaker 1: the Ninja Creamy, You've got all these at home appliances
11:49
Speaker 1: that make stuff that we used to have to go
11:50
Speaker 1: out for, right, like ice cream and smoothies and instant coffee.
11:54
Speaker 1: So this one's called ice Explosion, okay, and it makes it.
11:59
Speaker 1: It's basically the equivalent of a seven eleven slushy machine
12:03
Speaker 1: for your home. So it's a CA Cup kind of pod.
12:06
Speaker 1: You put it in there, you put some water in there.
12:09
Speaker 1: It takes about four minutes. And the trick is it
12:12
Speaker 1: makes carbonated slushy, so not just you know it's slush,
12:15
Speaker 1: it's carbonated. In about four minutes. They say it's the
12:18
Speaker 1: first of its kind ever for the house. It also
12:21
Speaker 1: makes you know, they have that soda stream machine. People
12:23
Speaker 1: love that I didn't know this because I don't use
12:26
Speaker 1: the soda stream. But that soda comes out warm, so
12:28
Speaker 1: you have to put it in the fridge to keep
12:30
Speaker 1: it cold or to get it cold. This makes ice
12:32
Speaker 1: cold soda in about two minutes.
12:35
Speaker 3: So that single is that that's a single use or
12:39
Speaker 3: a single cup that they offer, is.
12:42
Speaker 2: Do I have that right?
12:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's maybe a couple like a couple of
12:47
Speaker 1: small surveys, like maybe two small surveys. Yeah, so it's
12:50
Speaker 1: and by the way, you got to wait a minute
12:52
Speaker 1: between each drink, So I don't know who needs a
12:54
Speaker 1: slurpy that badly. But you know, to spend seven hundred
12:57
Speaker 1: dollars on this machine, by the way, plus a dollar
12:59
Speaker 1: for the CA cups. But you know, it's one of
13:02
Speaker 1: those things that's there. It's out there, and you know,
13:05
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens now.
13:07
Speaker 2: And when you talk about AI being.
13:10
Speaker 3: Involved in everything, AI is simply in the products that
13:15
Speaker 3: are being produced, right, And do they push the fact
13:18
Speaker 3: that we're using AI or do they push the fact
13:21
Speaker 3: that look what this can do and just don't even
13:23
Speaker 3: mention it.
13:23
Speaker 2: It's AI?
13:25
Speaker 1: Oh no, AI is I mean, look for people in
13:28
Speaker 1: the tech world and I think people are kind of
13:30
Speaker 1: getting tired of the term AI because it's just like, okay,
13:33
Speaker 1: give me a break. But when these products can actually
13:36
Speaker 1: help you accomplish a task that you have done in
13:39
Speaker 1: the past or we're not able to do in the
13:41
Speaker 1: past easily, that's when people are interested. So for instance,
13:45
Speaker 1: I'll just leave you with this one. One of the
13:47
Speaker 1: other trends we're seeing is that is this idea of
13:50
Speaker 1: unlimited memory. So we've seen earbuds, we've seen pendants, we've
13:55
Speaker 1: seen rings. They all have AI built into them where
13:59
Speaker 1: they are recording basically your entire day, so four to
14:03
Speaker 1: five hours at a time, where it's just every person
14:06
Speaker 1: you meet, every conversation you have, and then AI goes
14:10
Speaker 1: and it just puts it all into this memory bank
14:12
Speaker 1: that you can then ask questions of later. So for
14:15
Speaker 1: people that are you know, salespeople, business people, this could
14:17
Speaker 1: be very very helpful, or even for the average person.
14:20
Speaker 4: And so that's an.
14:21
Speaker 1: Example of a product we were like, Okay, come on,
14:23
Speaker 1: give me a break, do we really need that, But
14:26
Speaker 1: for some people that could be very handy, and it
14:29
Speaker 1: can even make them more money, make them better in
14:31
Speaker 1: their job, or just better in their personal life, listening
14:33
Speaker 1: to their wife's hell them something and you remember it.
14:35
Speaker 3: Actually, so where's this memory held? I mean that you
14:38
Speaker 3: can't go back what happened a year ago? Is it
14:40
Speaker 3: up on the cloud or the device itself has enough memory?
14:44
Speaker 1: Usually the device will will offload it to the cloud,
14:47
Speaker 1: and yeah, you could go back a year. I mean
14:48
Speaker 1: the idea is that you know, and we've seen I'm
14:50
Speaker 1: actually meeting with one of the companies. I think I
14:53
Speaker 1: can tell you this one of the companies that Amazon
14:56
Speaker 1: bought that's making this technology. And so I mean it's like,
15:00
Speaker 1: you know, this is big money. You know, this is
15:02
Speaker 1: definitely seen as one of the next big frontiers where
15:06
Speaker 1: you will wear a ring, you'll wear a necklace, you'll
15:08
Speaker 1: wear a risk band that will literally record every single
15:12
Speaker 1: moment of your day. Because data is getting cheaper, cloud
15:15
Speaker 1: is getting cheaper, Connections are everywhere, and it's become so
15:19
Speaker 1: cheap to just memorize every single thing that happens to
15:22
Speaker 1: you and then have AI sort through it later on.
15:25
Speaker 2: All right, Rich, thanks as always.
15:28
Speaker 3: You're here Saturday eleven to two and on KTLA every
15:32
Speaker 3: single day.
15:32
Speaker 2: Instagram. The address at rich on Tech that's tec website.
15:37
Speaker 3: Rich on tech that's tech Rich on tech dot TV.
15:41
Speaker 2: You have a good one Rich catch over the weekend.
15:43
Speaker 1: Thanks Bill.
15:44
Speaker 3: All right, And of course, the story we're following, the
15:46
Speaker 3: international story, is the abduction, the capture of Nicholas Maduro
15:52
Speaker 3: from his home is very well guarded secure home on
15:57
Speaker 3: a military base in Caracas, and he's in the United
15:59
Speaker 3: State with his wife, and they were arraigned, first indicted
16:05
Speaker 3: for narco terrorism charges and then they were arraigned and
16:11
Speaker 3: pled guilty with us. Michael Zwieback. Michael is exactly a
16:15
Speaker 3: friend of mine. I'm known for a bunch of years,
16:18
Speaker 3: and he is a federal criminal justice defense attorney also
16:22
Speaker 3: having worked on the prosecutorial side, so he has seen
16:27
Speaker 3: both sides of this.
16:28
Speaker 2: And Michael, I know you're on your way to court,
16:32
Speaker 2: which you do regularly.
16:33
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, taking the time, so if you would,
16:38
Speaker 3: can you go through the timeline what each of these steps.
16:42
Speaker 2: Were and what Maduro and his wife are looking at
16:46
Speaker 2: as of today.
16:49
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Bill. As of today, they've been arraigned
16:54
Speaker 4: at this point, and they had to be arraigned within
16:59
Speaker 4: a certain timeod constitutionally once they hit the United States soil.
17:04
Speaker 4: And now that they've been arraigned and entered not guilty. Please.
17:09
Speaker 4: At this point, the case will proceed into the discovery phase,
17:14
Speaker 4: and I expect that during the discovery phase and during
17:20
Speaker 4: the early pre trial motions, which I expect to be numerous,
17:24
Speaker 4: they're going to be dealing with a lot of these
17:26
Speaker 4: issues related to the extra territorial actions of the United
17:30
Speaker 4: States and how it impacts the criminal case.
17:33
Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm assuming that other than the extra territorial issues,
17:38
Speaker 3: this is your normal run of the mill narcotics case
17:43
Speaker 3: that I know you've done dozens of these. But the
17:47
Speaker 3: issue of going in and abducting him, he claims he
17:52
Speaker 3: is a head of state. We're not recognizing that, which
17:55
Speaker 3: I find interesting because we certainly recognize other heads of
17:58
Speaker 3: state who have they've manufactured results, election results or straight
18:04
Speaker 3: out dictatorships, and for some reason those guys are heads
18:07
Speaker 3: of state, but Maduro is not. By the way, is
18:11
Speaker 3: that going to be brought up saying hey, you have
18:15
Speaker 3: to recognize me because you recognize.
18:16
Speaker 4: Them, Well, it's absolutely going to be brought up one
18:21
Speaker 4: of the central early pre trial motions, and that is
18:26
Speaker 4: exactly what he's going to argue.
18:28
Speaker 3: Now.
18:28
Speaker 4: It's also what Manuel Noriega argued in the case that
18:33
Speaker 4: he dealt with related to the Panama seizure of the
18:38
Speaker 4: general and then the prosecution that took place in Miami,
18:42
Speaker 4: and he argued that he was a head of state
18:44
Speaker 4: although he wasn't recognized as one, and the courts in
18:50
Speaker 4: the No Diega case pretty much relied upon the Department
18:53
Speaker 4: of State to make the determination as to who is
18:56
Speaker 4: a legitimate head of state and whether or not they
18:59
Speaker 4: can claim.
18:59
Speaker 3: That immunity, and so based on that, since the Trump
19:04
Speaker 3: administration from the moment the last selection was held in
19:10
Speaker 3: which Maduro lost overwhelmingly and then dispersed all eliminated all
19:17
Speaker 3: of the numbers themselves, that's going to be easy to
19:21
Speaker 3: establish that the United States does not recognize him as
19:25
Speaker 3: a head of state and therefore he can't claim immunity
19:27
Speaker 3: and he can't claim and make any claims as to
19:30
Speaker 3: his position as head of state?
19:31
Speaker 2: Do I have that right?
19:33
Speaker 3: That is correct?
19:34
Speaker 4: And I think you know, the other issue that's going
19:37
Speaker 4: to be raised is, especially as it relates to the
19:40
Speaker 4: narco terrorism charges, is whether or not bark and the cartels,
19:47
Speaker 4: which have been designated as terrorist organizations, whether or not
19:52
Speaker 4: those designations were proper. That charge carries a life term,
19:58
Speaker 4: and I expect that there will be a fair bit
20:01
Speaker 4: of since it's been rarely used, that there will be
20:04
Speaker 4: litigation surrounding that issue as well as to whether or
20:09
Speaker 4: not it's appropriate. And one of the things that I
20:12
Speaker 4: can just add is this is a very independent minded
20:16
Speaker 4: judge who they are in front of, and so I
20:21
Speaker 4: expect that these issues will all be very thoroughly litigated.
20:26
Speaker 2: Now, this is the judge who is going to be
20:29
Speaker 2: presiding over the entire case. Is that correct?
20:32
Speaker 4: Correct? That's the way once he's designated in federal court,
20:37
Speaker 4: is he will for all proceedings.
20:40
Speaker 3: Okay, before we take a break, and we're going to
20:42
Speaker 3: come back and do another segment. And I know the
20:45
Speaker 3: judges are handed out or the judges are assigned on
20:48
Speaker 3: a rotating basis, and you can either hit the lottery
20:51
Speaker 3: or really end up in trouble, much like Glorian hit
20:56
Speaker 3: the lottery when he got his judge. What do you
21:01
Speaker 3: give the grade on this one in terms of being assigned.
21:04
Speaker 2: To the judge?
21:07
Speaker 4: Well, what we know about him and my experience in
21:11
Speaker 4: front of him when I have cases in New York,
21:13
Speaker 4: is that he is very independent minded. I don't think
21:17
Speaker 4: that he's necessarily going to take the government's position as
21:21
Speaker 4: being the defendantive proof. He's going to look at the
21:24
Speaker 4: underlying process and procedure that was followed to get to
21:27
Speaker 4: the result that ultimately resulted in these types of charges.
21:32
Speaker 3: Michael's wayback, who is a criminal defense attorney, a federal
21:36
Speaker 3: criminal defense attorney who's also been a prosecutor, so he
21:39
Speaker 3: sees both sides of this talking about what's going on
21:42
Speaker 3: with the Maduro issue, and Michael, as we go through
21:48
Speaker 3: this trial, we all of America is going to be
21:50
Speaker 3: riveted to this. Of course, two things going to be
21:53
Speaker 3: brought up. First of all, the national security evidence. Let's
21:58
Speaker 3: talk about that for a moment.
22:00
Speaker 4: National security evidence is going to be a central part
22:02
Speaker 4: of this case. It's clear that the intelligence communities have
22:07
Speaker 4: been providing information as part of they're not only intelligence investigation,
22:14
Speaker 4: but also the criminal elements of the case. And so
22:18
Speaker 4: it's going to require that the defense attorneys receive top
22:21
Speaker 4: secret security clearances to review the underlying information that was
22:27
Speaker 4: the basis of the presentation to the grand jury, and
22:30
Speaker 4: ultimately it's going to be utilized in some manner at trial.
22:34
Speaker 4: I do expect that the rest of the evidence in
22:37
Speaker 4: the case will be sort of a run of the
22:40
Speaker 4: mill drug conspiracy type case, relying upon cooperators and other evidence,
22:47
Speaker 4: but the national security information is going to be part
22:51
Speaker 4: and parcel of that.
22:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, So how do you do that?
22:53
Speaker 3: Because, I mean a judge has the ability, of course
22:56
Speaker 3: to hear national security issues and decide on his or
23:01
Speaker 3: her own whether it's applicable, whether it can be used
23:03
Speaker 3: or not, taken into account what the government is saying
23:06
Speaker 3: or not. But what do you do when national security
23:09
Speaker 3: interests are at the center or part of the case
23:12
Speaker 3: and you're in front of a jury and it's an
23:14
Speaker 3: open we have an open trial system where the members
23:17
Speaker 3: it's open court. I mean, you know, welcome to America.
23:21
Speaker 4: Well, there is something called SIPA, which is the Classifying
23:24
Speaker 4: Information Procedures Act, which allows for the reviewing of the
23:29
Speaker 4: underlying intelligence information both by the court and the defense.
23:35
Speaker 4: It will of course be heavily redacted, and there will
23:39
Speaker 4: be a lot of pretrial litigation over what elements of
23:44
Speaker 4: the information that was the basis for the underlying charges
23:48
Speaker 4: can be utilized. Some of that information I would assume
23:53
Speaker 4: the defense may want to use because it's going to
23:58
Speaker 4: be what's called brading material or exculpatory material, because maybe
24:02
Speaker 4: the credibility of the sources were always in question, and
24:07
Speaker 4: in the intelligence community may have relied upon sources that
24:10
Speaker 4: were unreliable in obtaining other evidence, and so that sort
24:16
Speaker 4: of litigation is what can really bog down a case
24:20
Speaker 4: of this nature that is so heavily dependent on both
24:25
Speaker 4: national security as well as you know, very tried and
24:29
Speaker 4: true criminal process.
24:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm assuming that both Maduro and his wife has
24:34
Speaker 3: gotten top notch defense attorneys. I don't think money is
24:39
Speaker 3: a big issue here. Do you happen to know the
24:43
Speaker 3: attorneys or the names of the attorneys just by chance?
24:47
Speaker 4: Well, the one lawyer who apparently has been appointed for
24:52
Speaker 4: Maduro is the same lawyer that represented Julian Massage, and
24:58
Speaker 4: so he is going to be very familiar with informations,
25:04
Speaker 4: the national security procedures and litigation surrounding those types of issues,
25:10
Speaker 4: which is an expertise onto itself. If you've never done
25:14
Speaker 4: a trial, and I have done several as a prosecutor,
25:18
Speaker 4: where you have that type of information and evidence, it
25:21
Speaker 4: can bog down a prosecution because there are certain pieces
25:25
Speaker 4: of information that the government isn't going to necessarily want
25:29
Speaker 4: to come to light, and that's when you get into
25:32
Speaker 4: issues called gray mail, which is where you're essentially trying
25:38
Speaker 4: to bog down the prosecution in its own intelligence information.
25:43
Speaker 4: And it's never pleasant for the prosecutor because they're dealing
25:47
Speaker 4: with the intelligence community agencies which are you know, they
25:51
Speaker 4: have methods and sources that don't have to pass the
25:55
Speaker 4: same kind of scrutiny that you would in a criminal investigation.
26:00
Speaker 3: I'm assuming that, of course every bit of legal maneuvering
26:05
Speaker 3: in which Maduro and his defense attorneys bring up and
26:08
Speaker 3: lose those are going to be appealed.
26:11
Speaker 2: Is that a fair assumption.
26:13
Speaker 4: That's a fair assumption. It took twenty months to get
26:16
Speaker 4: Noriega to trial, and while this judge has a very
26:22
Speaker 4: quick docket, I still expect that it will take something
26:27
Speaker 4: around twenty four to thirty months to get this case
26:30
Speaker 4: to trial, and then of course the appeals will go
26:32
Speaker 4: on for years.
26:34
Speaker 3: Is this one of those cases that is so high
26:37
Speaker 3: profile that the entire prosecution team it would be assigned
26:42
Speaker 3: just to this case, because I know prosecutors have you
26:45
Speaker 3: have a panel of cases when you were a prosecutor
26:48
Speaker 3: just wasn't just one. Is this one of those things
26:50
Speaker 3: where someone's going to make a career on this for
26:52
Speaker 3: the next several years.
26:54
Speaker 4: They're going to make a career on it, and you're
26:57
Speaker 4: going to have an army of Department of Justice lawyers
27:02
Speaker 4: and paralegals, and then of course resources from federal law enforcement.
27:07
Speaker 4: They're going to be assigned exclusively to this case, and
27:10
Speaker 4: they're going to be running down information and evidence all
27:14
Speaker 4: the way up to the day of trial. It doesn't
27:17
Speaker 4: stop just because the case was indicted.
27:20
Speaker 3: And I know this may be premature on this one,
27:23
Speaker 3: and so I'm not holding you to the fire on
27:27
Speaker 3: this one, but knowing what you know now, and maybe
27:31
Speaker 3: I can I even ask the question, is it way
27:33
Speaker 3: too premature?
27:35
Speaker 2: How does it look now for Maduro?
27:38
Speaker 4: Well, it obviously looks extremely bad. And I say that
27:44
Speaker 4: based upon my reading of the indictment. It's very clear
27:50
Speaker 4: to me and people who are experienced in this area
27:53
Speaker 4: that there are a number of cooperating witnesses, probably very
27:59
Speaker 4: high level cartel members who have been prosecuted as recently
28:04
Speaker 4: I think there was one six months ago, who have
28:08
Speaker 4: given evidence against him and will lay out what will
28:13
Speaker 4: probably be a very compelling case that, as you said,
28:18
Speaker 4: I'm sure people will be riveted to because it's not
28:21
Speaker 4: just about the Venezuelan government. The other political parts of
28:26
Speaker 4: the case are probably things that you're going to hear about,
28:29
Speaker 4: which is the interaction between the cartels and the various
28:33
Speaker 4: different governments in the region.
28:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:35
Speaker 2: By Michael, I'm just giving you a heads up. Be prepared.
28:37
Speaker 2: You and I are going to be talking a whole
28:39
Speaker 2: lot during this case.
28:41
Speaker 4: Sounds good always, all right.
28:42
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your information. All right, Mikes, way back. Okay,
28:46
Speaker 3: who is and he is really well regarded having been
28:50
Speaker 3: on both sides of the criminal justice system. All right, guys,
28:54
Speaker 3: we're done. Gary and Shannon are up next, and we're
28:58
Speaker 3: back again tomorrow. We're once again we start with the
29:01
Speaker 3: frivolities and hopefully I get to ruin your life.
29:04
Speaker 2: This is KFI AM six forty. You've been listening to
29:08
Speaker 2: the Bill Handle Show.
29:09
Speaker 3: Catch my show Monday through Friday six am to nine am,
29:12
Speaker 3: and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.