Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 174 - Sheriff Leben

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Recovery Chronicles Ep. 174 - Sheriff Leben · Recovery Chronicles

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Recovery Chronicles. My name is John Tragg and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: my sober date is June seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Join me
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: as we hear from people who are on this journey
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: that we call recovery. Okay, well, welcome to today's episode on
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Recovery Chronicles. This is Joan Tragg and I have a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: guest and friend with me today, Sheriff Kelly Lebin.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for inviting me, Joan, I appreciate the opportunity.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited to know for us to visit and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: to share with our listeners your story, your history of
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: working with people, and how you've just been really instrumental
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: in helping our community. And so we'll chat a little
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: bit about today and our today and talk a little
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: bit more about about your roles and we'll see where
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: that takes us. All right, awesome, Good start us off
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Tell us how how did you get
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: involved in law enforcement?
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So, you know, it's honestly kind of a long story
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: goes basically, as a kid, you know, I always thought
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: law enforcement or the military that was really you know,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the two things I saw you see the TV shows
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  Speaker 2: and all that, and and just thought that's where I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: should go. And so after high school, I knew I
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: was in college material at that point in my life,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: and so I thought, you know what, the military is
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: probably the best place for me. And so I didn't
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: know a lot about the military as far as making choices,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: you know. But one of my friends was a military
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: policeman and he had gone to Germany, and I thought,
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  Speaker 2: you know what, that sounds good.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I'll do that.
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  Speaker 2: And so I really was a very easy sell for
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: an army recruiter.
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  Speaker 3: I just showed up.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: He'd called me, and I that I'll be there tomorrow,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: and that's why I did.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And so in the military.
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  Speaker 2: As a military policeman, obviously there's a combat role to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: military policemen, but there was also at that time in
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: our society, the military used their own soldiers and marines
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: to do those duties on a military post. And so
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I actually got a lot of actual police work when
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I was stationed in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, fifty thousand
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: population on the post, very active, young post, you know,
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  Speaker 2: so a lot of stuff going on. And I will
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: say this when I at that point, I didn't know
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: if law enforcement was for me. And because you know,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I loved the job, but I would just had concerns
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: that maybe it wasn't for me.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I got out of the Army.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I made a decision to get out, and I actually
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: tried to become a fireman.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I thought, well, maybe I'll go do that.
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  Speaker 2: And problem was my brother was in the fire department
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: at that time, and they would not hire relatives for
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: safety reasons, you know, because if obviously, if your brother's
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: involved in something, you might become careless to try and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: help him. And so ultimately I thought, well, I'll go
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I'll apply in law enforcement until I figure out what
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I want to do.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: And I knew if I was going to be in.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Law enforcement, I hope to work for the Sheriff's department.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And thirty five years later, almost that I'm still there.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: And I'll say this, Joan.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I always look back on my life and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I say somehow, you know, the higher power or you know,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I would say God for me and my religion, I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: always was in the right place I needed to be.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well obviously, yeah, and you know, look at you
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: know where you're at now and and the impact that
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: you've made is huge. I think that you know, learning
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that and navigating that, but also having a little bit
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: of family history with with the other side of E.
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  Speaker 2: M T.
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  Speaker 1: The firefighter side, right, So you know that's that's huge
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that your family's all been active or you know, some
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: of them have been active in that and brings a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: wealth of knowledge to the role that you're in now.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure firefighters probably give you a hard time a
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  Speaker 1: little bit too.
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  Speaker 3: Oh.
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  Speaker 2: There was always some competition with my brother and I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: and we would joke at the family holidays and all that,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: but all in good nature. You know, I really look
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: and I like, I look at my family and the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: roles they've taken in life and my wife, you know,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: and and it's really a lot of service. And but
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  Speaker 2: I also think a lot of us weren't. And for
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  Speaker 2: desk jobs, it's you know, and that's what I've been
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  Speaker 2: fortunate in my law enforcement career is it's truly something
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: different every day. And and for my attention span and
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: my lack of ability to sit still, it works perfect sure.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and I think that that kind of brings us
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: to a point. You know, you're you're talking about your family, yes,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, anyone that has either worked with people
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that are struggling with addiction or had family members or friends.
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  Speaker 1: It's pretty rare to find someone that hasn't.
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  Speaker 3: Right exactly exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about that, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: like what what is kind of your background in having
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: someone close to you that has has battled addiction or struggled,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you know, with with the disease.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: No, And again this is another thing, you know, I've
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: said in my personal life. You know, I think I
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: think there's a disservice you don't talk about these issues
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: because if you don't get them out there and let
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: others learn from it, and you know, let others understand,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: you can share that common you know background. And so
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  Speaker 2: you know, I grew up my father was an alcoholic.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Back then, we didn't know what an alcoholic was, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I just knew as a kid that activities centered around alcohol,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: you know, but that was normal in the circles we
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: operated in. Excuse me, but so like when I my
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: father sobered up through heartview in nineteen seventy eight. He
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: was in the grocery business locally, very successful, managing some
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: of the supervalue stores, and ultimately left that went to
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: work for the Youth Correctional Center and started their drug
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and alcohol program for the incarce rate youth over there,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and that's where he was working up until his death.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think I was very fortunate because I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: grew up in the household where I saw the alcohol,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: the active alcoholism side, but I also saw the sobriety
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: side and.
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  Speaker 3: What that looked like.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, and I've said many times, on a
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: personal level, by the grace of God, you know, I
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: think some of what I saw with my dad's experiences
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: helped me truly helped me, both professionally and personally. And
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: also you know, knowing that you come from that environment,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you have those genes passed down, it was a good
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: thing for me to know the warning signs and know
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: what problem drinking looks like. And then you know, once
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: you become aware of, you know, addiction, and you kind
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: of get the education side on it, you know, both
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: from experiences and just now professionally, you know, you start seeing,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: like in our family, how much addiction issues there were,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's and it's the old age old question,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you know, is it nature and nurture? And you know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: and obviously I think there's both to it, and I
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  Speaker 2: think you know from my experiences. I mean, you grow
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  Speaker 2: up and that's what you see, and a lot of
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: times children will mimic what they see. And so you know,
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  Speaker 2: I I say many times, and maybe it's a weird
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: thing to say, but I say, I've been blessed to
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: grow up in that environment because it truly has helped
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: me in this profession. It's helped me as a person.
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  Speaker 2: And you said it, Joan, you know that nowadays it's common,
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  Speaker 2: you know, And that's what my wife in her college
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: studies in social work, she said, you know, the instructor,
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  Speaker 2: I've never forgot that. The instructor asked, how many of
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you come from a family of addiction, and she said almost.
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  Speaker 2: The entire class raised their hand. And the instructor said,
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  Speaker 2: many years ago, early in his career, nobody raised their
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: hand because it wasn't known and talked about right well.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that, like you mentioned earlier, the more
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  Speaker 1: we talk about it, the more awareness there is. And
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  Speaker 1: for some people, rightfully, so, they don't want to talk
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: about it. And it's a scary thing, it's a sad thing.
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  Speaker 1: It's super frustrating for both the person that's addicted and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: for their family and friends. But figuring out how to
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: help people and work with people is the only way
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  Speaker 1: we're going to solve this problem. And so yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I think coming from that experience of with your family
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  Speaker 1: is firsthand you get it. You know, you've been there,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: done that, and you're able to help other people. So
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  Speaker 1: I think that really shines through well.
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  Speaker 2: And I would say even in the aspect of you know,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: knowing addiction. And I mean obviously you look at families
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  Speaker 2: as they go through this, you know, whether it's in
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the denial phase or the enabling phase.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: And I can think back throughout my career in the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: different positions I've held, you know, as a warrants officer,
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  Speaker 2: doing emergency committals on people that needed to go to
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the hospital or a treatment facility for an addiction issue,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and being able to relate with the family and say, hey,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I've seen this, I've been there, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and you said it, Joan, you know, addictions frustrating because
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  Speaker 2: you just want to grab somebody, a loved one and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: shake them and say don't you get it? And most
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: times they get it, but the addiction is too strong.
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  Speaker 1: Right, and breaking that piece is really hard. I think
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  Speaker 1: that like you said, knowing that you have it, and
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  Speaker 1: that was the same way. I totally knew I had
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: a problem. But it's easier said than done to just
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, you know, I'm just going to walk
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  Speaker 1: away from this, and yeah, for sure. I think for
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: people to understand that, that's tough. I mean, you just
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: can't unless you've lived it. It's really really hard to explain.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but I think you said an important thing there,
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  Speaker 2: and that's breaking the cycle. And that's where you know,
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  Speaker 2: I have made a point. You know, like my children,
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  Speaker 2: they came after my father had passed away, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: and I've talked to them about, you know, the addiction
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: problems in our family, and you know, and sometimes along
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  Speaker 2: with the addiction comes mental health issues, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: and I feel it's my job to make sure the
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: future generations are aware, you know, so then they can
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  Speaker 2: make choices, you know, and decide, and you know, I would.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I think we all can agree. There's people
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: in life that can manage alcohol. There's people that can
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: manage recreational usage of certain drugs, but not everybody can.
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  Speaker 2: And that's where it's important. You know, that people understand
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: the danger.
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  Speaker 1: Right well, and I think that that kind of brings
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: me to my next thought on things I wanted to
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: ask you about, is at heartview, when people come in,
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  Speaker 1: in most cases, they aren't just struggling with their addiction, right.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of times there's all kinds of other health things.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: They may be diabetic, high blood pressure, most often mental health,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: are dealing with former trauma. How do you see that
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: you in your role and with the Sheriff's apartment kind
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of the shift in terms of addressing mental health or
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: working with people that are struggling with with the mental health?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: You know, how does that look like for you and
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: for your team in terms of addressing it?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Well, So I would say, you know, there's kind of
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: two things I would probably talk about, And the first
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: one is obviously you know, the whole person, and you
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you said it, and as you were leading up to this,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking in my head the same things you said,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you know, the trauma, the medical conditions, the mental health
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: you know, and again, you know, I always say, you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: it's the chicken in the egg which comes first, the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: mental health which drives the addiction issues, or is it
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the addiction drives the mental health? And I think it's
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a combination of both. And so you know, and that's
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: another thing I've said many times in this profession. You
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: can always find way a reason to use. There's every
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: person has a justifiable reason to use. But the problem
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: becomes when it's unmanageable and then it's going to manifest
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: other problems. And so you know, the problem we run
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: into especially in county law enforcement and obviously in North Dakota,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the sheriff runs the jail. But the problem for us
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: is that we don't know how long we're going to
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: have these people in our custody, and so you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: we really are limited. We're like a trauma center if
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: we if you compared us to the hospital. I always
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: tell our nurses that work for us, we're like the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: er of the hospital it compared to the prison where
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: they can do long term treatment and recovery. But I
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: think we still have a responsibility to do something and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: work with the people with these issues and try and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: get them stabilized and get them help, you know, to
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: move them on. I can tell you, you know, the
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: work like Hardview does is you know, just so important
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and so impressive. And I don't say that because my
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: personal history with it. I just you know, I can
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: tell you on a professional level, when we looked at
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: medication assisted treatment at the jail. You know, I come
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: from the recovery world, the old days, where you don't
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: trade a drug for a drug, and so I'm looking
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: at you know, methadone and these other drugs that are
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: being used, and I'm like, knowing there's on the law
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: enforcement side, we're worried about the potential diversion in a facility,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: But it was.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Hardview that convinced me this is the right thing to do.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And you know, really it was a mindset shift for
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: me that says, you know what, having a person function
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: in society and and I don't know, I don't care.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: We all have to have some type of coping mechanism.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's working out at the gym, you know. The
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: goal is to find the healthier coping mechanisms, you know.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: But if methodone is going to keep somebody off opioid
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: based drugs, Hardview convinced me that that's the right thing.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that I'm glad that you talked about that,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: because you know, there's a lot of stigma surrounding methodone
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and the any use of medication assisted treatment. But you're right,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: you know, I've had the opportunity to go over to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: our facility on Broadway and I've visited with people that
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: are utilizing that form of treatment, and they are getting
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: their life on track. You know, they're showing up to work,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: they're following up with their appointments. You know, they're getting
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: back on track with their family, you know, all the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: things that I think some people who aren't struggling with
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: addiction just take for granted. Those are the goals of
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: people that are addicted. I really just would like to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: live a normal life, you know, And so I think
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that that's important for communities that are really concerned about
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: utilizing those types of treatment to to you know, give
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: it another thought and really, you know, probably just dig
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: into it a little bit more and really find out,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you know, how it is working, because it it's it's
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: science based. It's you know, it's not something that we're
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: just grabbing drugs off the street and handed them saying here,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: try this instead, you know it. I mean, there really
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: is a lot of evidence behind it that it works.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And so having your support was instrumental in heartview starting
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: that form of treatment and so I think that that,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you know, has been tremendous and thankfully, you know, it's
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a it's a big it's a big piece of our
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of our programming. Right now, we have two hundred eighty
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: for people that are are utilizing it, you know, so
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: it's exciting to see those folks back on track.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I remember, I won't forget when Kurt invited me down,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Kurt Snyder, head of Hartview, invited me down to discuss
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the methadone clinic, and I remember telling Kurt and I
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: can't remember who else was in the meeting, you know,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: but on the drive over there, I'm like thinking to myself,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: this isn't happening in Bismarck, North Dakota.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: How did we get here? You know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: But you know, really, Joan, you look at like you said,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I think, for the most part, you know, people that
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: don't have to deal with this, and thankfully so for them,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: you know, But I think there's a perception of, you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: what an attic looks like. There's a perception of what
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic looks like.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And I remember my mother in law years ago, Oh
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: made a comment about, you know, alcoholics, and and we
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: left to drive home two hour drive and my wife
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: gets in the car and she's like, thanks for biting
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: your tongue, and you know, and it wasn't it wasn't
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: meant in a bad way. It just she never experienced it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: And you know, and I've said this many times, you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: coming from a family of addiction, I find that, you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I'm drawn to that crowd because you know, that's how
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I'm wired, is growing up in that environment. And you know,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I think the fentanyl crisis really if I don't know
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: if this is the right way to say it, but
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I think it helped the addiction issue become mainstream because
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you know, before when you're talking about heroin addicts, you're
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: talking about cocaine addicts or what. You know, everybody has
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: this picture of what an alcoholic in an addict is, right,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: but really, you know, when it came to the fentanyl epidemic,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: you know, that normalized the addiction in the fact that
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: it isn't somebody that's in and out of jail that's addicted.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: This is people can become addicted, not just by circumstances
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: and whatever happens.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think understanding the fentanyl piece of it
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: has it's hard to understand it because there's so many
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: other components to it, it seems like, but it is
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: definitely one of the drugs of choice that we see
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: our patients at Heartview come in and that are struggling.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: And the piece of you know, trying to stop using
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: it going through the withdrawals is way way more difficult
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: than you know, some of the other drugs. And so
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: it's a terrible, terrible drug and it's nasty what it
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: does to people. But I'm glad that we have this
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: form of treatment so that we can help as many
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: people as you know, as we can and work through that,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: because You're right, a picture of an addict is not
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not what you think in it. And
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, I you know, I'm so glad
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: that you were part of that and that you you
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: were able to help us bring that to the community.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: As a small part. You guys did the work.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Well, let's chat a little bit about so Barele Kunnie
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's apartment. What are you seeing and in terms of
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I'm talking you know, primarily from the addiction side and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you know, drugs and alcohol side. What are you seeing
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: as you know, some of the major challenges right now
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: as drugs evolve and as things are changing, what are
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you know, what are some of the things that you
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: guys are facing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I think when we talk about drugs, and
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: obviously this is a very hot topic in North Dakota
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: right now. I mean you can see it in the news.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: It's bringing the violence with it, which is obviously a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: part where it gets on everybody's radar when we're seeing
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: these officers involved shootings, We're seeing shootings between people, and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: so I think for us, we I always say this,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: the better the economy is, you know, the more money
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: in the economy, and that's really what has happened in
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: North Dakota in my opinion. You know, I've said many
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: times the oil boom has been a blessing for our
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: state in many many ways, but it also exploded our
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: drug problem. And you're seeing people that have addiction backgrounds,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that have too much disposable cash, and it's just fueling
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the addiction across the state. When you look at you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the Three Affiliated Tribes area, and they've made great effort
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: to combat this, but when you look at that area
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: of the state where it was probably wasn't on the
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: top for income levels, and now with the oil activity
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it has drastically increased. But you know, they're spending a
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: lot of time and effort, thankfully fight an addiction which
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and trying to enforce the laws. But here in Burley County,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I would say the drug of choice is still methanphetamine.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Obviously alcohol is the drug of choice, but when we
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: talk illegal drugs, methanphetamine is still the drug of choice.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: But we've seen that shift into you know now because
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: of the fentanyl epidemic. You know, you saw people that
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: we're on prescription drugs got addicted all of a sudden.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: You know, the government has worked to cut back that
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: flow rightfully. So well, the problem is they're going to
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: turn to the black market, and so we're seeing still
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: a strong uptick in I would say illegal pharmaceuticals, but
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: also fake pharmaceuticals, you know, where they're making fentanyl to
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: look like oxycotton and stuff like that. You know that
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: the problem we face is one is there is a
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: high demand in North Dakota for addiction related issues, so
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: people want the drugs. The other problem is the money
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: people can make with the resale of those drugs in
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: this area. So it's an uphill. I think we do
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a good job going after it, but it's it's like
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Groundhog Day.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Every day you wake up.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: They get smarter, we get smarter, and so we come
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: up with new ways to interdict.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: The drugs right well.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And I think the the population too, you know, a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: lot of new people coming to town. But that's I mean,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: not entirely to blame it, you know, it's but there's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: just a lot going on. You and I travel out
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to Dickinson quite a bit. We have a facility in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Dickinson as well, and I cannot believe how much that
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: area has grown. It's just crazy, you know. And so
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: just then amount of growth, people business like and like
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you said, money flowing through. I can definitely see where
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: you know where you're coming from. That makes sense. We
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: talked a little bit about about you mentioned about the
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: community and those types of things. What do you think
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: are some of the top things that our community should know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: you know, and be aware of here in terms of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the drug use and and what what your team is
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: doing too, and what are some things that you think
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: that would be helpful for them to know what what's happening.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I think probably the one thing I would
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: say is that I would think would be helpful is
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: and I think we're getting there, but the education side has,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: you know, is so important because obviously, you know, we
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: can't arrest our way out of this problem. You know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: we always say this when I speak to groups. When
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: you take a fake fentanyl pill in Detroit, that's two dollars,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: and you bring it to the reservation in North Dakota
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and sell it for seventy to ninety dollars, there's always
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: somebody willing to step up and take the risk for
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: that financial turnaround. But I think the education part and
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the parents talking with their family members and just making
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: sure people are aware because you know, in this day
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: and age, you know, the marijuana of today wasn't the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: marijuana of the seventies. You know, the the pharmaceuticals, these chemicals,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you know, every day almost somewhere in the United States,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: it's like they're coming out with a new drug, you know,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and bath salts being converted to get people high. And
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: so I really think that's what I would say is
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: as a parent, as a grandparent, as a friend, don't
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: put your head in the sand if you think somebody
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: is going down a path they shouldn't talk to them,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: you know, try and help them because hopefully, you know,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you can intervene before it gets too far along.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: You know, we're we spend a lot of time.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I always say enforcement and education, you know, really that's
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: what our job in the community is talk to people,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: talk to groups and tell them what to look for,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: what you know, to call in the problem right now though,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Joan is I also tell these groups we got more
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: drug intelligence, then we've got people to follow up on
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: and so but you know, we're we try to stay
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: you know, on the front line. And I always say,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: criminal enterprise is a business. And as you know, if
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: they're losing loads of drugs on the interstate, they're going
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: to figure out a different way to move those drugs,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: or if they're losing the cash. And but that's what
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: we work on too. So you know, we're always willing
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to take on new programs, both on the education the
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: treatment side. We're doing stuff out in the jail that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: if you'd have told me thirty five years ago we'd
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: be doing, I would have said you're crazy. But you know,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: we've got mental health, a mental health professional that's working
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: with our people out there. I think the state is
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: getting a lot better in coordinating this stuff. So instead
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: of having a bunch of silos everybody doing their own thing,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: they're really bringing it all together and hopefully we can
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: keep going that direction.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Right well, and if you know, if we don't have
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: those collaborations in place, it's a lot harder, you know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: So let's pool our resources in and but like you said,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the education piece, because it's ever evolving every minute, and
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: so trying to stay on top of it even as
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: just someone in the community. It's not maybe law enforcement
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: or not working a treatment center. You just trying to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: understand yes and staying for I think are both crucial
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: components to that. I guess I kind of just wanted
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: to follow up a little bit too on So what
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: does the future look like for your department? Do you think?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: For yourself? All the things happening, I mean, there's just
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: so much to keep up with. I can't even imagine.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: But you know, what is happening with you guys or
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: what you know, what are some future plans for for
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: the department? You know?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So we always at the department, and this is one
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: thing I'm proud of. We've got great people and great staff.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: They all got servant hearts. And I don't just say
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: that they do. I'm amazed at the work they do,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: the how much they care. And you know, but like
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I look back, so I came into office in twenty nineteen,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and you come in with a vision and a plan
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: of what you're going to accomplish. Well, then COVID hits.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, I said to my wife one night,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I said, Okay, I'm like, I'm truly burning it at
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: both ends. And then I stop and think about the
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: fact that, Okay, COVID's taking fifteen hours a week. Well
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: that that was fifteen hours a week.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: I don't have anymore.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, and then we came out of COVID,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and now you know, you're dealing everybody's dealing with staffing issues,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and you know, and we're fortunate, I think as far
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: as law enforcement, you know, we have worked hard on
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the culture of the agency and so but my point
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: is when you're when you have these other outside factors,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: you know, we've got programs we would love to roll out,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you know, working on education in our facility because obviously,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: if you can get them stabilized in the jail, start
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: getting them down the path of sobriety and then give
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: them some tools and resources to use when they get out.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: The whole goal is to prevent that recidivism, you know,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: like you talked about, break that cycle. And and so
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: we've got more things we want to do. You just
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: got to work with the limitations that you have. So,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I think as we go in the future,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: we've looked at on the detention side, spiritual experiences in
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: the jail, you know, because I think you know, again
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: getting back that believing in the higher power, you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: especially you know, people in the jail mentorship programs. Anything
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: we can do, you know, a lot of times we're
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: just fortunately it seems like we have the people willing
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: to do it. It's just you know, when you're running short,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be putting new programs on them
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: when they're already taxed to the limit.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Right for sure. I mean, and and the addressing what
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: you know they're currently working on is you know, priority first.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I think that that's you have
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: to have those goals too though, you know, things that
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: you want to do and start planning the seed at
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: least so that you can start preparing for it and
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: see where it takes you. And like we talked about,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: with everything constantly changing, you just you just never know
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: what's going to come up. So yeah, so I you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I I want to thank you for all that you've
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: done for the community. Thank you and everyone you know
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: from Harview we did. We just thank you a lot
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: for all that you've done for the for the recovery community.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: It's just been tremendous. And so I can't thank you
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: enough for all that you've done and for coming and
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: hanging out with me today. Hey, I love it.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the opportunity, and sincerely, Joan, I don't know
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: if I've done enough. And and I don't just say that,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I I mean it's truly, this is necessary.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: To be done.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I feel like you're giving me too much credit, but
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: we were gonna keep fighting, so well.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you very much, and thank you
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: for your service.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: For joining us on this episode of Recovery Chronicles. Find
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: out more about hearteat dot org, and keep moving forward,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: remembering the story is yours and you are the author.