Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 285 - The Misfortunes Of Roger Craig

Transcript

JFK Assassination - Ep. 285 - The Misfortunes Of Roger Craig · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of nineteen seventy six provides protection
• 0:09
  to use copyrighted material for research, analysis, education, and commentary purposes.
• 0:15
  We hear at Loose Moose Productions reserve that right now, on with the show.
• 0:20
  Here's Joe b and the Triple b Hey, Andrew dene House things in
• 0:25
  Texas. Everything is going to hail down here inducted Jan, Jimmie and Joey
• 0:33
  Joey and then drum Man and Yummy and Joey, Drop, John Gay,
• 0:38
  job and Joey, Joey and jim and Joby and Joey, Jockey Joe rat
• 0:50
  Shine and here we go and here we go. That's right, folks,
• 1:17
  Welcome to the Lone Gum And Podcast. This is episode number two hundred and
• 1:22
  eighty five, The Misfortunes of Roger Craig, of which there were many for
• 1:30
  this poor soul, and we'll get into him, I promise, but before
• 1:34
  we do, welcome in. Joe. How are you doing, buddy,
• 1:40
  Hey, are you in the Northeast? Did you say sexy beast you sometimes
• 1:45
  know bearded beast, Oh, bearded beast. I'll take sexy bearded beast.
• 1:49
  Is that okay? No? Not from me. Okay, maybe in the
• 1:56
  comments check second, a compliment. Joe's fishing for compliments, folks in the
• 2:00
  comments section. If I am in the mountains, So I want to puff
• 2:05
  his head up a little bit, go right ahead. Yeah, I won't
• 2:07
  complain, but I hope you're going to do it. We got big news.
• 2:12
  You know what happened last week? What happened last week? Sir boom,
• 2:16
  I'll hit fifteen hundred subscribers. We did, we did, And if
• 2:23
  anybody that was watching, you're gonna dig this show. If you have an
• 2:24
  interest in the Kennedy assassination, I promise you feel free to subscribe to the
• 2:30
  show, like the episodes and ring that little bell, and you will get
• 2:37
  notified every time we go live or drop a new episode. So, as
• 2:42
  I said, it's all going to be about this guy today, Roger Craig,
• 2:49
  who in nineteen sixty three was a deputy sheriff in the Dallas County Sheriff's
• 2:58
  Organization. And he happened to be standing outside the Sheriff's office there in Dallas,
• 3:07
  and when he heard some shots, and he went a running for Dealey
• 3:09
  Plaza and he saw some things there. Joe, he did he did he?
• 3:20
  I think he arrived there. Well, we at least have this picture
• 3:25
  of Roger Craig in Elm standing on Elm Street at twelve forty, so about
• 3:34
  ten minutes after the assassination. And I'll show you the other half of this
• 3:39
  photo now where you can actually see Roger Craig. Notice twelve forty on the
• 3:47
  hurt sign too. Yeah, that's what we're getting that this went down at
• 3:52
  twelve forty. So this is the other side of the photograph. It's a
• 3:55
  very big photograph. But that circled in blue would be Roger Craig, and
• 4:02
  he is looking back towards the school book depository because in this picture, I
• 4:15
  don't know if they can see my cursor Joe, but there's a guy with
• 4:20
  a white shirt and black pants on the extreme far right of the photograph,
• 4:26
  and right behind his butt would be this white rambler in question, or light
• 4:31
  colored rambler that Roger Craig claims that he saw somebody resembling Lee Harvey Oswald running
• 4:40
  down the side of the school book depository. He said he heard a shrill
• 4:43
  whistle, you know, like hey, and he sees this guy running down
• 4:50
  who he said, looks like Lee Harvey Oswald and getting this rambler driven by
• 4:56
  a heavy set, dark skinned Latino or Negro or something, and they drive
• 5:05
  away and there's so many people around that he can't like stop him, but
• 5:12
  he thinks it's definitely uh sus as the kids say, so Joe, let's
• 5:17
  get into some of the stuff that falls off the wall and that uh yeah
• 5:29
  pun intended. Yeah, that Roger Craig kind of gets into that day aside
• 5:38
  from you know, seeing this, Yeah, that's your cue. That's me
• 5:47
  handing the football. Is the quarterback to you as the running back? Give
• 5:54
  me one sect. Let me get rid of this. Uh, let me
• 6:00
  get rid of this picture if I can, so that you may bring up
• 6:09
  our Roger Craig timeline. Oh, I forgot something on nineteen sixty eight,
• 6:15
  but we get filling there. It's the Garrison one. But that's what she
• 6:18
  said, yes, star sir, all right. So in nineteen fifty nine,
• 6:27
  Roger Craig moves to Texas and he joins the Dallas Police Department. And
• 6:36
  it's not on the timeline, but in nineteen sixty I believe he was named
• 6:42
  Officer of the Year. Yes, and there's some antecdotes. If you can
• 6:47
  see this book here. I'll hold it up for everybody. The deputy interviews.
• 6:53
  It's all about Roger Craig. It's basically it's not really a book.
• 7:00
  Say, it's a collection of interviews with Robert Grodin, Jay Gary Shaw,
• 7:05
  Phil Singer, a Sheriff's office insider who is not named, and family members
• 7:13
  of Roger Craig, like his brother and sister and son. And it does
• 7:19
  provide some good inside baseball if you will, into Roger Craig's personal life.
• 7:27
  Excuse me, but yeah, in nineteen sixty he was named Officer of the
• 7:30
  Year. They had a big celebration, a big dinner. They gave him
• 7:33
  a watch, and they even gave his wife a watch that was engraved on
• 7:38
  the back Wife of the Officer of the Year, nineteen sixty So pretty cool
• 7:43
  stuff. Access to the budget. Yeah, yeah, so we have an
• 7:49
  honor guest. We do, Hey, Doug on one of my favorite shirts.
• 8:01
  Oh that is a really dope shirt, wors mine. Oh this is
• 8:07
  old Bud, this is old school. Oh this is probably god six seven
• 8:15
  years old. Really yeah, half my bellies hanging out of the bottom of
• 8:20
  it. But you can't see that. It's all that matters is what you
• 8:26
  can see. Hey, that happens with I have no pants on either.
• 8:31
  Uh, it's yeah, he's like that Uh that CNN guy that was caught.
• 8:37
  He's on the zoo during the the thing, you know, you know,
• 8:43
  the thing naked it from the waist down. Uh. Okay, let's
• 8:48
  uh, let's say hi to some people. Hi. Colleen Morgan, John
• 8:56
  of course, Scott Edwards, South Towest, pb PSV Odyssey, Garden,
• 9:03
  Guns, ev Thank I got all of them. Eustace you missed, Eustace
• 9:13
  Abernethy. That's the hell of a name. And if our sound levels are
• 9:18
  off, guys, please let us know if well, everybody said that I
• 9:22
  was way lower than you last time, and I don't know what's going on.
• 9:26
  Hopefully I sound better this time. People were saying, oh, I
• 9:30
  can't hardly watch it with the sound levels different. But last week, I
• 9:33
  know Joe's mike was hot as hell, which is making me sound way lower
• 9:37
  than him. But we could not figure out how to lower his mic levels.
• 9:43
  We just lowered yours prease. Uh but yeah, like right here,
• 9:50
  right here in my mouth. So hopefully this sounds a little better. I
• 9:54
  will try to keep it right there and I have no mic, so we
• 9:58
  are are going towards the middle here, mm hmm. And Rob, do
• 10:05
  you remember who when we were doing our pre check sound last week told me,
• 10:11
  yes, Mike to use it? It was you, sir. I'm
• 10:18
  just blaming that you. I'm just what I'm saying. If you, if
• 10:20
  you have a mic, use it. Yeah, no, for sure,
• 10:24
  there should have a volume thing on your mind. Yes, and your stream
• 10:30
  yard. You can adjust your microphone volume as well. Do you want to
• 10:33
  know the ironic thing about it? Rob? But I fucking broke it.
• 10:39
  I dropped it and like went off. It's uh like holder thing. Oh
• 10:48
  I'm fucked. Yeah, now we are too. Yeah, keep cursing.
• 10:54
  Getting this demonetized, that's awesome. Not that the opening thing didn't have it,
• 11:01
  Chris, how the fair us it didn't. Oh you took that out.
• 11:09
  Yeah it's initially okay, No, that was that was for Dug show,
• 11:16
  Josha. Anyway, back to Roger Craig. Back to Roger Craig,
• 11:22
  do you want to do your were you going to do that segment? Say
• 11:26
  that that Craig saw a lot of things that day, and according to Craig,
• 11:33
  you know, he saw this ramble. You know, this person resembling
• 11:37
  Oswald running down hopping in a light colored or white rambler. And I know
• 11:45
  I've done I've mentioned this in shows before, so we're not going to spend
• 11:50
  too much time on it. But there were other witnesses to this event taking
• 11:54
  place. There was somebody in the car right behind the rambler. Two people
• 12:00
  riding in a car, and they both separately were interviewed and they boast did
• 12:03
  the same thing. Somebody ran down. Besides the school book depositoring got in
• 12:07
  this you know, white station wagon in front of them. And so there's
• 12:15
  a lot of people that saw a light colored station wagon doesn't necessarily need to
• 12:18
  be a rambler because all the old station wagon looking cars they all looked the
• 12:22
  same back then. Where there was a Chevy, a Ford, or Nash,
• 12:26
  they all had the same kind of shape, same kind of deal.
• 12:31
  Because station wagons were kind of a new thing back then in the fifties for
• 12:35
  traveling families. They were very popular. Luggage racks on the top, easily
• 12:41
  mistaked possible. You know, if you want a car fish, you know,
• 12:46
  you could easily mix them up, you know, like the difference between
• 12:50
  a Mustang and a Camaro. You know, if you're not a big car
• 12:54
  person, it just looks like a fast, you know, two door car
• 13:00
  to shape the same, you know. Who knows. But there were other
• 13:03
  witnesses other than Craig, and not only did they back up his claims of
• 13:11
  seeing this, So this event probably did take place. And I forget what
• 13:18
  the name of the show was, but I go into this a lot more
• 13:22
  in depth if you want to go back on the earlier shows and check it
• 13:26
  out, go much more in depth with documentation and incitations and all of that.
• 13:35
  And also so Roger Craig ran up or tried to ran up into the
• 13:41
  railroad yard across Elm Street after the shooting as well, and he stopped a
• 13:50
  woman driving a car who was attempting to leave the parking lot back there,
• 13:58
  and he handed her off to a buddy of his, another deputy deputy Lewis.
• 14:07
  I think it was. I think it was. It was. There
• 14:09
  was a ton of deputy sheriffs. They told her to take the woman to
• 14:15
  Decker, but nobody ever knows what happened to her or her car. Well,
• 14:20
  that that parking lot back there was, I don't know if it was
• 14:24
  owned or leased by one of the Dallas sheriffs, who then in turn rented
• 14:31
  out spaces in there to a lot of his co workers and any just anybody
• 14:37
  that wanted to rent a parking spot in that lot could and it was there
• 14:43
  was a gate with a lock on it, and if you rented a spot
• 14:46
  in there, you got a key. So nobody knows how this woman got
• 14:50
  in there, in addition to these these other three cars that Lee Bauer supposedly
• 14:54
  saw driving around back there, because the only way he in was with a
• 14:58
  key unless somebody left and unlocked, which we don't know if they did or
• 15:01
  not. So Craig also told tells so when he leaves there and he goes
• 15:11
  back to the school book depository, because that's where all the activity is going
• 15:15
  on now, he said he ran into somebody, well, I think it
• 15:22
  was Honored Roland and his wife, who were witnesses to two people in the
• 15:28
  southwest corner of the fifth or sixth floor, and he said one of them
• 15:35
  had a gun, a rifle, and they didn't think anything of it because
• 15:39
  they thought that they were Secret Service agents blah blah blah. So then he
• 15:46
  said he also met somebody in front of the depository who claimed to be a
• 15:52
  Secret Service agent. And we know that there was no Secret Service agents on
• 15:56
  the ground in Dealley Plaza after the assassination except Roy Hargraves. He was in
• 16:07
  the Secret Service. I know he was credentials. I'm joking. Yeah,
• 16:12
  yeah, he may have had credentials, but no, we know where he
• 16:15
  was. I actually played him in Dealey Plaza and I know that back parking
• 16:21
  lot really well, there was no gate on it. Mister Doug can attest.
• 16:26
  We had a good time back there and it was just amazing, like
• 16:32
  to see where Lee Bauers sat and to look over and it was just I
• 16:36
  mean, it was my first time there, so excuse me for being a
• 16:38
  little nostalgic, but it was really cool. Geeked up. So then anyway,
• 16:45
  Roger Quaike watch a quag makes his way up to the sixth floor eventually,
• 16:51
  where he teams up with another buddy is Luke Mooney, and they supposedly
• 16:55
  found the shills up in the south or northeast corner of the building, under
• 17:03
  the window, you know, the so called sniper's nest. He said there
• 17:07
  were three shells. He said that there was a bag sitting on top of
• 17:11
  the box a rifle, a bag crumpled up sitting on top of some boxes
• 17:15
  close by, and he said he was up up on the sixth floor when
• 17:21
  they found the rifle. And interestingly enough, so I've always heard that there
• 17:33
  possibly could have been two rifles found in the depository, and in an interview
• 17:42
  that Roger Craig did Joe in nineteen sixty eight, I think you were asking
• 17:48
  me about this before. Okay, but if you can see the title of
• 17:53
  this two rifles found that depository. Yep, found a depository. Hey,
• 18:02
  Rob can you We got a comment that you're lower, I'm higher, so
• 18:07
  I'm leaning back a little bit. I don't know if you can up your
• 18:11
  end. I can. I just not true. It's just based on the
• 18:18
  comments. I didn't want to ghost me. How's that? People? Am
• 18:22
  I coming in hot enough? Now? Oh? He's hot, And I
• 18:26
  promise a friend I would do this. Speaking of hot, there's gonna be
• 18:30
  something spicy tomorrow. And if you haven't made your Silk City order yet,
• 18:37
  this weekend's Quick Hits is gonna be spicy. So it's gonna be good.
• 18:45
  I know I caught you off guard there, off What do you mean it's
• 18:48
  gonna be spicy. It's gonna be spicy. I can't I was sworn to
• 18:52
  secrecy. I can't say anything else, but I heard it's gonna be spicy.
• 18:57
  Oh oh, I think I know what you're referring to. Yes,
• 19:00
  yes, yes, yeah, it's going to be spikey. So if you
• 19:07
  didn't place your Silk City Hot Sauce order, or if you just did tonight
• 19:11
  and doesn't get there until next week, we listen to quick hits for your
• 19:15
  substitute of spiciness. Yes, all right. So I came across this article,
• 19:21
  you know, two rifles found in depository, And in the article,
• 19:26
  Craig is being interviewed and the freaking writing here is like a millimeter high.
• 19:44
  Yeah. So they asked him if he handled the rifle, and he says
• 19:56
  yeah. He said, now, this rifle, there's no possible way that
• 20:00
  a man could lay that rifle between those boxes. He had to drop it
• 20:03
  in there. He says, I'm six feet tall, and I couldn't reach
• 20:07
  down and pick the rifle up without climbing on top of the boxes and getting
• 20:11
  down in them by moving some of them to get that rifle. And there
• 20:15
  wasn't a scratch on that rifle. And the scope was not one fraction out
• 20:19
  of kilter. Then he said he was asked did you handle the rifle and
• 20:23
  he says, yes, I did. I couldn't give its name because I
• 20:27
  don't know anything about foreign rifles. He said, I know it was foreign
• 20:30
  made and you loaded it downward with the built with the built in clip.
• 20:37
  The id man took it and ejected a live round from it. The scope
• 20:40
  was facing north, the bolt facing upwards, in the trigger south. But
• 20:45
  there was another rifle a Mauser found up on the roof of the depository that
• 20:49
  afternoon, and they said a mauser on the roof? Who found it?
• 20:56
  And he says, I don't know who found it, but I do know
• 21:00
  that a police officer verified its existence. Captain Glenn King, the public relations
• 21:06
  officer for the Dallas Police, told a reporter that the Mauser found on the
• 21:11
  roof of the depository was a bit of a momentary confusion. He stated that
• 21:17
  the rifle had been dropped by a security officer. He says, how do
• 21:22
  you know that? Has that ever been published before? And he said,
• 21:26
  no, it hasn't I know that because that reporter, theyer Waldo of the
• 21:33
  Fort Worth Star Telegram told me that in person. He said, do you
• 21:37
  know who owns that property? And then he says, yes, there is
• 21:40
  a d herald bird blah blah blah. So anyway, I'm looking at I
• 21:48
  find some random video on YouTube, right, Joe. So I had had
• 21:53
  to take a couple of stills because as Roger Craig is talking about find in
• 22:00
  two rifles in the depository, I see this. Now. This is Lieutenant
• 22:11
  Day looking at the rifle that they had just found. You see they're handling
• 22:15
  it with a handkerchief over the scope and they're looking on there to try to
• 22:22
  read it. Okay, but below that rifle is the butt of another rifle
• 22:27
  and the body of another rifle with the scope on it. Do you see
• 22:33
  that? Yes, I'm looking at the bottom part and analyzing because yeah,
• 22:45
  so everybody can take a good look. Here it is without the red outline.
• 22:48
  A couple of frames later, Yeah, that's two rifles, so back
• 22:56
  to back almost. But the butt, yeah, there's definitely. It looks
• 23:00
  like one is resting barreled down on the ground, butt up on a box
• 23:07
  beside this officer. Now it could be a policeman's gun, could be a
• 23:18
  shotgun for all we know. But I know it's you know, mostly you
• 23:22
  don't put scopes on shotguns, but it is very odd that this rifle looks
• 23:30
  like a rifle. Butt is like right there as well. So we're two,
• 23:36
  we're two rifles found in the depository. Who knows. But as for
• 23:45
  it being a seven point sixty five miles or everybody's heard the clip, and
• 23:51
  I posted the entire interview on our channel and on the from the Vault,
• 23:56
  the entire Roger Craig interview where he says and stamped right there on the barrel
• 24:03
  was seven point sixty five Mauser, he says he saw. And we also
• 24:08
  have AffA Davis from Seymour Whitesman and Eugene Boone some other of sheriff's deputies who
• 24:17
  wrote it in their reports up as a seven point sixty five Mauser as well,
• 24:22
  and say, well they couldn't be mistaken, right, blah blah blah.
• 24:29
  But I think it was uh was it Whitesman that used to have used
• 24:33
  to own a gun stores? That was Whitespan Yeah, yeah, So I'm
• 24:38
  thinking he's probably pretty familiar. And I think his uh Warran commissioned testimony was
• 24:45
  changed to what it looked like a Mouser. Yeah, so I was watching
• 24:53
  some of the Seymour Whitespin DPD interviews and this was post assassination, previous to
• 25:04
  Warren commission, I believe, And he said, I made a mistake with
• 25:10
  characterizing the Karkano as seven point sixty five Mauser. And the interesting thing about
• 25:18
  that, Rob is for the first like day or two the assassination coverage,
• 25:22
  the news were reporting it as a Mauser, and then all of a sudden
• 25:26
  there was this about face to use military terms, and they turned it around
• 25:33
  and then it was a Karkano. And I was listening to a bunch of
• 25:38
  and granted there was a ton of you know, early confusion, differentiating reports
• 25:45
  things like that, but there's a whole clip I have of all the ABC,
• 25:49
  NBC reporting it as a Mauser and it happened like that for a while
• 25:56
  until it was, uh so, I'm throw this up here when Roger Craig
• 26:07
  said, and stamped right on the barrel of the rifle was seven point sixty
• 26:10
  five Mauser. And that's when Seymour Whitesman said, it is the Mauser and
• 26:14
  pointed to the seven point sixty five Mauser stamp on the barrel. After a
• 26:18
  close examination much longer than Fritz or days. Whitesman decided that it was a
• 26:25
  seven point sixty five German Mauser, and Fritz agreed with him. Now I've
• 26:30
  seen it many people saying there is no proof at all that any Mauser has
• 26:36
  it on their stamped Mauser seven point six y five. Well, let me
• 26:41
  show you this close up, folks. So right here stamped on the barrel
• 26:47
  is the word Mauser. Okay, and above it all right right before where
• 26:55
  the shell would eject. It's a seven point sixty five. And it's close
• 27:00
  up shot of it there at the bottom. So it does there. Look,
• 27:07
  there's a lot of different models of Mauser rifles. There's a ton of
• 27:12
  them from different time periods, from different countries. There's Peru specific, there's
• 27:18
  Italian specific, German specific, Argentinean specific. You know, there's all kinds
• 27:25
  of different Mausers and all kinds of different calibers and all kinds of different links,
• 27:32
  much like you know the Carcano as well. But you know, I've
• 27:37
  heard people say that the Loane nots were trying to say, oh, there's
• 27:40
  no there's no Mauser that has that stamped on the barrel. Well, there
• 27:45
  it is. Folks, it does exist. Yeah, I think a lot
• 27:51
  of what they say is that the with the telescopic scope on it, that
• 27:56
  the seven point sixty five Mauser would have been covered by the scope and therefore
• 28:03
  would not have been readable by say, well, that's crapy because it's behind
• 28:10
  right, I'm playing devils out where the shell ejects. Yes, I'm playing
• 28:14
  devils out of heres. So for the viewers. So I don't know if
• 28:22
  people can see. But to your point, there were many different models,
• 28:25
  and like maybe a model of Mouser had that feature right where the scope might
• 28:30
  have covered it. But yeah, he said there stamped on the barrel,
• 28:36
  it'd be right here. But you know, like I said, the scope
• 28:38
  doesn't sit flush with the top of the barrel. You know, there is
• 28:44
  a gap. So there was a stamp you know that looked like this one.
• 28:48
  You could definitely see it under there, you know this one. It's
• 28:52
  not like this. It's not like the carcano. Whether it's not colored right
• 28:59
  you know where it's just a at all engraving. Basically, this appears to
• 29:03
  have some kind of a you know, a white or gray hue to it.
• 29:07
  Maybe it's just a lighting. I don't know. Yeah, you know,
• 29:11
  at a glance, you know, it does kind of look like a
• 29:14
  carcano, you know what I mean. They both have you know, the
• 29:21
  same kind of funky stock and you know, the car being type appeal with
• 29:32
  a short barrel and you know, bolt action. They're both top load with
• 29:38
  a clip. They both have bottom mounted sling holders. So yeah, but
• 29:48
  again you have three different guys saying that this thing was a mouser. It
• 29:53
  stamped on the barrel. It eventually becomes a carcano because that's what Oswald ordered,
• 30:00
  right, But was there two rifles found in the building. It's hard
• 30:07
  to say. Hard to say, but I'm pretty sure that the humanitarian weapon
• 30:15
  was probably not the weapon, especially when you're talking about the the head shot.
• 30:22
  I'm not gonna say the last shot. But yeah, all right,
• 30:29
  so let's move a little forward in the timeline now, Joe, okay,
• 30:33
  so well, not too much forward. But the same day or is it
• 30:41
  the day the day after? Or was it the same day the twenty third?
• 30:45
  I believe it was, Okay, m I don't know about that.
• 30:52
  So he said he saw Oswalt on the twenty second, obviously, but the
• 31:00
  first reports documented documentary evidence that I could find if I missed it, please
• 31:07
  correct me. Was November twenty third, nineteen sixty three. No, it
• 31:12
  was the same day. It was the same day, all right, That's
• 31:18
  why we do this. So in his Warning Commission testimony, Roger Craig said
• 31:29
  that I drove up to Fritz's office oh after five, about five thirty something
• 31:36
  like that. I'll come on, do it, do a little heavier.
• 31:41
  I can't do a Roger Craig voice. He's just too soft spoken and likable
• 31:47
  guy for me. I joe up the friends in the office about oh after
• 31:52
  five, about five thirty something like that. I can't do that too slow.
• 32:00
  So I called Captain Fritz's office and talked to one of his officers and
• 32:04
  told him what I had saw and asked him how it fit the man they
• 32:12
  picked up as a suspect. And it was then they asked me to come
• 32:16
  up and look at him at Captain Fritz's office. He says he drove up
• 32:21
  to Captain Fritz's office and he took me in his office. I believe it
• 32:25
  was his office. It was a little office and had the suspect sitting in
• 32:29
  a chair behind a desk, and beside the desk was another gentleman. I
• 32:32
  didn't know he was sitting in another chair to my left. As I walked
• 32:37
  in the office, Captain Fritz asked me, was this the man I saw?
• 32:40
  And I says, yes, it was. Well, you described the
• 32:47
  man you saw on Frince's office. Well he was sitting down, but he
• 32:52
  had the same medium brown hair and it was still well, kind of wild
• 32:54
  looking. He was slender, and what I could tell of him sitting there,
• 32:59
  he was kind of short. By that, I mean, you know,
• 33:02
  not myself. I'm six foot. He was shorter than I was and
• 33:07
  fairly light build. So they he goes into Captain Frinston asked him about He
• 33:21
  says, what about this station wagon? And he says The suspect interrupted him
• 33:27
  and said that station wagon belongs to missus Payne. I believe is what he
• 33:31
  said. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do
• 33:35
  with it. And the Captain Fritz had told him as close as I can
• 33:38
  remember that all we're trying to do is find out what happened. And this
• 33:43
  man you saw leave from the scene. And the suspect again interrupted Fritz and
• 33:47
  said, I told you people I did, and yeah, he said,
• 33:52
  Then he continued and he said, everybody will know who I am now.
• 33:57
  So we have this account that Roger Craig under oath is telling to the Warrant
• 34:05
  Commission. Okay, you know, four months after the assassination. This guy's
• 34:15
  at the time an upstanding law enforcement officer Officer of the Year. Is he
• 34:23
  going to go in there to the Warrant Commission and lie for some reason?
• 34:30
  What do you think, Joe? I mean, from what I've read,
• 34:35
  it seems like he was the person that did not change his story right,
• 34:40
  and other people like Seymar Wizman did right from the Mauser to the kirk Kano
• 34:47
  say, for example, you know, he allegedly got a lot of crap
• 34:55
  for for not backing off that point in the Warrant Commission. Am I wrong?
• 35:04
  Well, because Fritz didn't corroborate his story. He basically said he didn't
• 35:09
  know what this guy was talking about. He didn't even know who he was
• 35:14
  who he was. So that that brings me to a question I had for
• 35:19
  you. So on the sixth floor, allegedly you have Deputy Director, Deputy
• 35:28
  Sheriff Mooney, right, you have Lieutenant Day and Jack Taylor asked what rifle?
• 35:35
  What detective was who was holding up the rifle leaving the TSBD, I
• 35:38
  said, Lieutenant Day right, but I don't know if he was the he
• 35:45
  was the I D man, So he was definitely holding it up in the
• 35:50
  police station, and I'm pretty sure he was the guy taking it out.
• 35:52
  I think so too. But then they bring the bag out and it looks
• 35:57
  like it's it looks like it's being held up on a stick. But that
• 36:01
  could have been a perfect place to hide another rifle coming out of the depository.
• 36:07
  If you have a rifle stuck up in that bag, just the way
• 36:09
  he's carrying it looks odd to me, you know, in one piece or
• 36:16
  what do you think? Yeah? One piece? Okay? And uh yeah.
• 36:23
  So has anyone ever written a biography of Roger Craig, asked Morgan McKinley.
• 36:30
  And uh, oh no, when he wrote his own? Yes,
• 36:35
  that that is one of the rarer ones. I believe or actually might have
• 36:38
  another one, But that is the one is not a rare book. That
• 36:44
  is one of the one ones Rob was referring to earlier with the four Witnesses.
• 36:47
  Yeah. There, it's just a collection of interviews from people that knew
• 36:52
  Roger Craig and who had talked to him some family members, including his son.
• 36:58
  There's an unnamed sheriff's office in Cider because fun fact, Roger Craig Junior.
• 37:06
  Okay, Roger Craig's son joined the Dallas Sheriff's office in nineteen seventy eight.
• 37:15
  I did not run it for seven years. I did not know that,
• 37:19
  and looks so much like his dad to freak people out, because of
• 37:24
  course by this time, Roger Craig has passed away. Right, I'll see
• 37:30
  if I can find a picture of his son in his uniform, because he
• 37:39
  does look like Roger Craig. And Roger Craig's son tells the story when his
• 37:46
  dad would take him to work and Sheriff Decker would like basically babysit him and
• 37:52
  take him to do like fun stuff like take him to do these old Wild
• 37:58
  West rodeos and and reenactments and stuff, and taking to get some sas Marilla
• 38:04
  root beer and all this weird stuff. So, I mean, I don't
• 38:08
  know if he was kind of grooming him or he was you know, it
• 38:14
  was just an innocent thing, you know, like because he said that Sheriff
• 38:16
  Decker, I guess didn't have any kids or couldn't have kids or something,
• 38:21
  and just enjoyed. Uh he said, he said, you know, he
• 38:24
  was always kind to him. I don't know, I can't find it right
• 38:30
  now, but yeah, this is one of the only books about Roger Craig
• 38:37
  that's out there. And included in this book is Roger Craig's manuscript. It's
• 38:42
  the very end of the book. It's not very long, so don't get
• 38:46
  your hopes up. But that did knock him out until years after his death.
• 38:55
  Yeah. He supposedly wrote his manuscript in seventy one, right, and
• 39:02
  he was very hesitant to ever publish it because he was worried about repercussions.
• 39:08
  I think they tried to kill Roger Craig like four different times. He was
• 39:14
  shot at, his car was blown up, he was ran off the road,
• 39:20
  and then one day when he answered the door, somebody was standing there
• 39:22
  and they shot him in the chest with a shotgun. That can't be fun,
• 39:29
  no, So he was definitely freaked out. He was definitely paranoid.
• 39:36
  He was definitely in pain from all these injuries sustained from being blown up in
• 39:43
  a car, you know, to being shot being ran off the road in
• 39:46
  a car in the in the mountains. You know, it's just who.
• 39:53
  You know, he had some some lemony snickets. He It was a series
• 39:58
  of unfortunate events for Roder Craig. Like we touched on earlier in sixty seven,
• 40:04
  there was a hint that Craig was possibly talking to Garrison, and Sheriff
• 40:13
  Decker one day called him into his office and told him he was fired,
• 40:16
  get his stuff and get the hell out of there. That he was done
• 40:21
  with no apparent reason, but Craig suspected the reason was had he heard you
• 40:27
  know, there was a rumor that he had been talking to Garrison when he
• 40:29
  actually hadn't yet. But apparently after he was fired by Decker, he reached
• 40:36
  out to Garrison and said, Hey, you want to talk to me.
• 40:40
  Garrison said, hell, yeah, come to New Orleans. So he did,
• 40:46
  and you know, he basically relayed some things, and then Roger Craig
• 40:52
  kind of fell on some hard times and actually early first generation researcher Penn Jones
• 41:00
  offered him a bait, you know, a couple of room cabin like on
• 41:06
  some land that he owned somewhere in mid Lothian, Texas. So Roger Craig
• 41:09
  moved there. He became a judge, a justice of the peace and ran
• 41:15
  his own private detective agency in Midlothian for a couple of years. Sounds familiar,
• 41:23
  Well, yeah, and it was you who else was working on you
• 41:29
  know what? It was called Roger Craig and Associates ship respect the creativity there,
• 41:37
  yeah, and a nod to Banister and associates. Yeah, that's true.
• 41:44
  And of course the let's see Craig say he saw I was getting into
• 41:52
  the car, which no way. I was going to bring up rob the
• 41:54
  let's show about the map here, folks, here's a map and this is
• 42:00
  credit to sixty seconds in Dallas. Yes, fair use yeah, okay,
• 42:08
  so you see right there in the middle there's a star. Where's his Craig?
• 42:15
  Okay, that is kind of close to where Craig was standing. He
• 42:17
  was actually in the street, closer to the knoll. But as he's looking
• 42:23
  back, you'll see I think this is when the shots were fired, so
• 42:32
  I think he moved to the knoll. No, so where it's his number
• 42:37
  six? That's where the rambler is. Because m Robinson, who also said
• 42:43
  they saw a rambler and they were right behind it in traffic, is also
• 42:46
  on this map. Okay, number two in the back. Okay, where's
• 42:52
  his war l star. That's where he says he saw people running to get
• 42:59
  into a light colored rambler. So if yep, James were all so okay,
• 43:06
  if they come down the side of the street right there on Houston Street,
• 43:12
  the extension in between the dal Techs and the school Book Depository and make
• 43:17
  it right onto Elma Street and kind of stop right past the book depository and
• 43:29
  all right, so this guy is going to come out the side of the
• 43:31
  depository basically where ray Word says Texas school Book Depository and the things pointing there's
• 43:37
  a door. They would come out the side and then come down the grassy
• 43:42
  area and across the entrance into the parking lot and hoping the rambler and go
• 43:49
  down on under the Triple underpass. So that's how it works. M h.
• 43:57
  And wasn't mister Craig the first one to interview James take, I believe,
• 44:06
  So if not, it was either him or Whitesmian Yeah, yeah,
• 44:13
  yeah. Now Whitesman didn't live past sixty nine either. He was he was
• 44:21
  he was sent by Sheriff Decker to go get this guy at a motel and
• 44:25
  he shows up there and there's a shootout. He shoots this guy like three
• 44:31
  times, but I think he ended up living. But he dies. Yeah,
• 44:37
  in a shootout with this criminal hold up in a motel. That is
• 44:43
  crazy. And uh, you know, whenever I look at a lot of
• 44:46
  these uh you know another special guest in the Chad Joe Umbrella man. Yeah,
• 44:54
  now all we need to completely ra Oh I was saying, is that
• 45:07
  me? Because I was Roy Hargraves. Technically now it's that you. You're
• 45:13
  on the show, he's in the comment section. I know I was joking
• 45:17
  unless you're in both places and once mhm, never know, never know,
• 45:23
  but uh yeah, the uh so there was a at first when I you
• 45:30
  know, I've been reading about this for a couple of weeks, I mean
• 45:35
  obviously longer than that, but you know, kind of looking into it a
• 45:38
  lot more. Uh, I didn't think there was as much corroborating uh testimony
• 45:45
  and people that saw what mister Roger Craig saw and you know you're talking about
• 45:55
  Richard Randolph Carr, Marvin c Robinson, who you mention, James Ral James
• 46:01
  Forrest and John Martin Jr. John Martin Jr. I didn't say it first
• 46:10
  and some other people too. It's the light colored light white light, green
• 46:17
  light gray rambler in and around day Plaza. Yeah, and you have not
• 46:24
  only the news saying it's Mauser initially, but you also have Curry going on
• 46:31
  the news and saying he got picked up by a quote Negro right, and
• 46:39
  that was the exact testimony and what Robert Roger Craig saw. And you got
• 46:45
  to wonder, did those initial reports come from Roger Craig? And I mean,
• 46:52
  it's exactly his description. But you know, Curry in his interview doesn't
• 46:57
  say obviously the source of the information, but based on what we know,
• 47:02
  it's pretty likely, I think. Yeah. And also in the short time
• 47:07
  that he was with the Dallas Sheriff's Department, not only did in nineteen sixty
• 47:14
  did he was he named the Officer of the Year, but he also earned
• 47:19
  four promotions in two years. Yes, I want to get to that pretty
• 47:25
  good considering, you know, when you look at somebody like JD. Tippetts,
• 47:30
  who didn't get one promotion in twelve years. Yes, sir, you
• 47:35
  know, so this he seems like a stand up kind of guy, you
• 47:38
  know, a good a good guy, an honest guy. And that's kind
• 47:50
  of why, Like, no matter what you think of Roger Craig, you
• 47:53
  have to take what he says seriously based on his previous bona fides in the
• 47:59
  sense, right. And That's kind of what I've been struggling with. And
• 48:04
  I'm kind of like agnostic on it now, like I'm not one hundred.
• 48:07
  Maybe I've been reading too much, but uh, you know what I mean,
• 48:13
  Like there is correlating evidence. There is you know a lot of other
• 48:19
  things that end his background that make you think, Okay, I have to
• 48:22
  take these allegations somewhat seriously. This is not some you know, go goots
• 48:29
  just saying something and calling the DPD or coming out twenty years later whatever.
• 48:36
  Right. So that is kind of the mystery of Roger Craig in a sense.
• 48:44
  I don't know, what do you think, Rob, Well, yeah,
• 48:47
  I mean it's it just doesn't make any sense how you can go from
• 48:52
  being that that good of a police officer and stand up guy to you know,
• 48:58
  being dragged into Decker who treated Roger Craig's son like a son, you
• 49:06
  know, and looked at him favorably and just fired him for no apparent reason
• 49:10
  whatsoever. But I did come across Joe. He says this is an original
• 49:21
  account of the period, which was written by his wife, and it says
• 49:25
  Roger contacted mister Garrison for the first time on October fifteenth, nineteen sixty seven.
• 49:34
  Mister Garrison's reply was airmail and brief and dated October twenty second. One
• 49:40
  paragraph stated, I cannot tell you how pleased I am to hear from you.
• 49:46
  There are times when I feel I am literally running out of Americans.
• 49:53
  He says he had been out of town the week Roger had written to him,
• 49:58
  and see Roger went to the New Orleans about two or three days after
• 50:02
  he received a letter and talked to him. Some of Garrison's men met Roger
• 50:07
  at the airport, rolled out the red carpet for him, and from there
• 50:09
  on he was followed. When he left the motel room, he had things
• 50:14
  arranged in his traveling bag, his toothbrush, toothpaste, heratonic, et cetera.
• 50:20
  When he returned, they had all been changed and rummaged through. He
• 50:25
  didn't make reservations for the return flight until after midnight, and he made them
• 50:34
  from a pay phone. And when he and some of the men from Garrison's
• 50:37
  office got to the airport, they were being tailed so tightly that they called
• 50:43
  for more men. So it wasn't covert, No, it was definitely overt.
• 50:53
  And it's strange too, like Roger's his second ex wife, I think
• 51:00
  Molly was her name, but I think she was talking to somebody in like
• 51:07
  the late seventies as well, that somebody had broke into Roger Craig's dad's house,
• 51:16
  which is where he was living at the time, right, m And
• 51:21
  it was a couple of days after his funeral, and all of Roger Craig's
• 51:28
  crap that was there was stolen, wow, from the house. Like that's
• 51:35
  like a Lauren Hall type situation, and that she she she would even find
• 51:40
  herself at times followed for years after, so you know, crazy stuff.
• 51:52
  Yeah. And and to your point, Rob, I mean we've talked about
• 51:54
  in previous episodes when it went over some of the Markhams and the Marking Kids
• 51:59
  and some of Mark Lane and the surveillance they had on him, and the
• 52:04
  surveillance they had on pretty much everyone who was a threat to their narrative.
• 52:10
  I think we talked, I said sixteen agents. I think we said that
• 52:14
  we're assigned. It was I believe that was the Marina Ford Residents Operation June,
• 52:20
  and that they had sixteen FBI agents a fucking day. Sorry, So
• 52:28
  come on, no one gets a dang for Curson anymore. It's twenty four,
• 52:34
  bro. I'm just kidding, but it's it's really weird when you when
• 52:39
  you think about all that in context, and how much money they they put
• 52:45
  into to controlling their narrative. How it makes you think like, why wouldn't
• 52:51
  they like put an agent on, you know, missus Craig, right,
• 52:55
  it's like minimum expense at that point. Yeah, she says, going back
• 53:01
  to the setting of Ozma by Craig, it seems weird to me that they
• 53:04
  were letting any vehicles go down and what was now a crime scene. Well,
• 53:07
  here's the deal, Ashley. This is ten minutes, nine minutes after
• 53:13
  the shooting, and the officers aren't even I mean, basically, this is
• 53:19
  still a motorcade, like a parade. Okay. You see the bus of
• 53:24
  press people still coming through in the photo at twelve forty, so it wasn't
• 53:31
  the roads were not shut down. The cops were either looking and running around
• 53:36
  at the grassy knoll or had made their way inside the depository to look around.
• 53:42
  By now, yeah, they all kind of scattered after the shooting happened,
• 53:46
  and people, you know, they didn't shut the roads down until well
• 53:52
  after one o'clock. No, And I was just gonna like play Devil's out
• 53:57
  of the Kid for a second because I was reading and heard that Roger Craig
• 54:05
  couldn't get to the car because of traffic, right what and people, yes,
• 54:15
  So you know, there's a lot of phototime, photographic evidence in the
• 54:22
  aftermath. But if there's traffic and I've crossed Elm Street and in traffic and
• 54:34
  not traffic, I've laid down or standing on the X whatever, not laid
• 54:37
  down, I can attest that it would be easier to cross that street during
• 54:45
  traffic than it would cars going twenty thirty miles an hour. So that's always
• 54:49
  something that just like was weird to me, because if there's traffic in your
• 54:52
  police officer put up your badge and you say stop and you walk across,
• 54:58
  I'm again Devil's advocate. Well, if you have if you have a bus
• 55:01
  stopped in the middle of the street, you have people all over the place,
• 55:06
  right, and you basically have one lane where traffic can go. Because
• 55:13
  it looks to me Joe. If we look at this picture again, let
• 55:21
  me pull it up. Yeah, so you look at this all right.
• 55:25
  You know Elm Street's three lanes, right, so it looks like the far
• 55:30
  left lane closest to the depository is filled people. This bus is probably stopped
• 55:38
  because there's reporters on it, and let's see what the hell is going on?
• 55:44
  All right, so this rambler is gonna come down and kind of probably
• 55:50
  swoop around the bus and go on by before Craig can realize, really,
• 55:54
  what's what's happening? You know what I mean? So it is possible.
• 55:59
  Yeah, for sure. I always thank you, John, that's really nice.
• 56:06
  Hold on, I'm me interest a comment or two. Ah, the
• 56:09
  kick Ass Boys. What do you think of that name? It's better than
• 56:14
  the Ass Boys? And then thank you John, you are But uh so,
• 56:34
  there's so many differentiating accounts and witnesses. But I mean, the more
• 56:42
  I've read about this particular topic and Roger Craig, honestly, the more I
• 56:46
  get confused. And then you have, of course, you know, him
• 56:52
  getting fired from the DPD than him living with Penn Jones, as you mentioned,
• 56:58
  writing a little confuses more. Okay, Well, I was just gonna
• 57:01
  say writing a manuscript and then dying a suspicious death, you know, it's
• 57:07
  and then have it be released like fifty It was like nineteen ninety, right,
• 57:12
  so you're talking like almost twenty years later. It's it's very suss.
• 57:17
  It's just just the timeline, you know. But yes, confuser, So
• 57:24
  Pen like Penn Jones was buddies with Roger Craig basically. And you know,
• 57:31
  Penn Jones had this newsletter that he was writing at this time called a Continuing
• 57:36
  Inquiry, and he was putting out aspects of the Roger Craig story because he
• 57:39
  had him their first hand. You know, he's hearing all this stuff firsthand
• 57:44
  straight from the guy. Right. He's loving with him, right, Yeah,
• 57:49
  yeah, I believe he was shot in the chest with a shotgun on
• 57:52
  Penn Jones' property. So you know, he's not making this stuff up or
• 57:57
  pulling it out of thin air. You know this this stuff really happened to
• 58:00
  poor Roger Craig. Yeah. And in one of his newsletters for the Continuing
• 58:07
  Inquiry, he says, however, to get to the nitty gritty, no,
• 58:15
  this is Roger Craig talking. Weitzman is the one who classified the rifle.
• 58:21
  But I did see the stamp seven point sixty five mileser on the barrel,
• 58:25
  so there was no question. And yes it did have a scope mounted
• 58:30
  on it. And that was at one o five PM as I looked at
• 58:34
  my watch when the Dallas police officer told us an officer had been killed in
• 58:37
  oak Cliffe. So you see tip it was dead at approximately one oh five,
• 58:43
  an impossible task for Oswald. So that's interesting. Yeah, I mean,
• 58:55
  I don't believe the those are one fifteen stamp or where Tippo was brought
• 59:04
  in. I believe Roger Craig looked at his watch and remembered it was one
• 59:08
  o six is when he stated at some point when he heard about the Tippett
• 59:15
  murder, allegedly some officer that he could not remember came up the stairs of
• 59:20
  the TSBD and pronounced that, Am I right? Rob? What that?
• 59:25
  An officer came up from the TSBD stairs and announced to the officers that were
• 59:30
  on the sixth floor that Tippet had been killed. That's what I read at
• 59:36
  least. And yeah, but there's no mention of like Tippett at the you
• 59:45
  know, the Craig at the Tippet scene, not like Westbrook or something.
• 59:52
  It was the superhero cop of the day, administrative guy who was at every
• 59:57
  scene. You know, it was not the Texas Theater. So it is
• 1:00:01
  really interesting to analyze his statements when he said it, and a lot of
• 1:00:09
  the corroborating evidence around him and some of the not corroborating evidence around him.
• 1:00:15
  It's really JFK things. So to further clarify things, So he was shot
• 1:00:25
  at in nineteen sixty seven. Okay, in nineteen sixty nine, my life
• 1:00:31
  was threatened. I guess he had got a phone call, you know,
• 1:00:37
  threatening phone call. Nineteen seventy my car was blown up with me in it.
• 1:00:44
  In nineteen seventy one, I was run off a mountain road in West
• 1:00:46
  Texas and my back broken as well as my shoulder, my left elbow,
• 1:00:51
  my left foot, and my right leg. So I have suffered somewhat.
• 1:00:55
  And then the top all that my wife left me in seventy three and come
• 1:01:04
  even together, another car came up at a high rate of speed and the
• 1:01:07
  man withdrew his gun and pointed it at me. Roger said that was one
• 1:01:13
  time his heart missed a beat. So wild stuff. It is crazy.
• 1:01:24
  Do you think Roger Craig had more scars than I do. Probably, he
• 1:01:34
  says, that's your recovery from these injuries. He was wounded in the left
• 1:01:37
  shoulder in January of nineteen seventy five by a shotgun blast. Wow, so
• 1:01:43
  I was right. I was right before his death. Yeah, and then
• 1:01:49
  a couple of months so to get into Roger Craig's death, Okay, there
• 1:01:55
  was. It was technically classified as a suicide, and he had a very
• 1:02:06
  short suicide note. Basically it says please forgive me, I'm in too much
• 1:02:15
  pain or something like that. And it wasn't long at all. It was
• 1:02:19
  just very shy, sweetened to the point. But around this time there's some
• 1:02:27
  odd things and his son, Roger Craig Jr. Had a good relationship with
• 1:02:32
  his dad at the time, had a good relationship with his grandfather at the
• 1:02:37
  time. And he he said his dad was never that type of guy who
• 1:02:44
  would kill himself. You know, he was always a fighter, a survivor.
• 1:02:50
  I mean, look at all the look at all the shit he went
• 1:02:52
  through and came out on the other side of it, you know what I
• 1:02:53
  mean. Did he grow up alone? Like I said, the age of
• 1:02:59
  twelve, I was rating and he ran away from home in age twelve.
• 1:03:04
  He went to work on a ranch, like a couple of states away,
• 1:03:09
  like in New Mexico. He joined, he joined the I guess he joined
• 1:03:19
  the army at age fifteen under his brother's name, but they found out that
• 1:03:24
  he was lying and that he was only fifteen, so he kicked him out.
• 1:03:29
  So then he rejoined when he was seventeen under his own name. Like
• 1:03:32
  I said, it served early in nineteen fifties, right, yeah, for
• 1:03:38
  two years. I believe that was after Korea though, but interesting. I'm
• 1:03:45
  not a Korean more expert, but yeah, I mean it's it does.
• 1:03:52
  I mean when you have to analyze his whole situation, his death, his
• 1:03:57
  statements, his early statements, it is you know, critical to take in
• 1:04:04
  his personality and from what we know, like how many times was he promoted?
• 1:04:13
  You said three? Two in three years, four and two years or
• 1:04:15
  something, you know, and we're talking about someone like Jad Tippet, which
• 1:04:19
  we talked about before, not getting one promotion in twelve years. You have
• 1:04:25
  to compare the context. And yeah, one was maybe a plain closed detective
• 1:04:30
  like Craig right, he was in plain closed during some of the uh,
• 1:04:33
  well not always he was. There is pictures of him in a uniform,
• 1:04:40
  right, I mean there's both, right, so I think, I mean,
• 1:04:45
  I think the ones you showed were plain closed, and I read that
• 1:04:47
  he was plain closed. But either way he could have been initially uniform a
• 1:04:54
  cop and then later playing clothes. He thank you to he really was,
• 1:05:00
  And that's kind of my I don't want to say conundrum, but like because
• 1:05:05
  I don't like to just like believe every statement ever, but there's a lot
• 1:05:14
  that made me in my ssssness, let's say that made me double check and
• 1:05:21
  be like, Okay, well, this guy was an a war wing police
• 1:05:25
  officer from one to four times, stand up guy. From all accounts.
• 1:05:30
  It's really hard to analyze. And yeah, no, I believe is a
• 1:05:38
  is a detective, a former detective of note on the West Coast, and
• 1:05:43
  I respect his opinion on things. And you know, he believes Craig was
• 1:05:48
  a credible witness. So that's something to take note of. That's coming from
• 1:05:55
  a fellow law enforcement perspective. Okay, there was all also some things.
• 1:06:00
  Roger Craig was corresponding with a teacher I believe in New York who wanted to
• 1:06:09
  talk to him about things, and he says he writes him back a letter.
• 1:06:13
  Roger Craig says, it is heartwarming to know there are people like you
• 1:06:16
  who are willing to stand up and be counted. As for my troubles,
• 1:06:20
  yes, I have suffered physically and mentally for the stand I've taken, but
• 1:06:25
  it is to me a small price to pay if I can help save or
• 1:06:28
  bring back the America we once knew. I would like to say to your
• 1:06:31
  students, please pursue this. They don't have to believe what I've said,
• 1:06:36
  but read and make up their own mind. After all, they are the
• 1:06:41
  future leaders of this country. I have been asked to lie. I have
• 1:06:45
  been told to say nothing. My car was blown up, I was shot
• 1:06:51
  at, and I was financially ruined, and I am now in the VA
• 1:06:57
  hospital recovering from a shotgun wound. To the check. I have not changed,
• 1:07:02
  nor will I change. I have to live with myself, and this
• 1:07:05
  is most important to me. I hope you will excuse this short letter.
• 1:07:11
  I hope the next time I will feel more up to par. If you
• 1:07:15
  write again, please address it too. Blah blah blah. It's safer for
• 1:07:24
  me there to receive mail. I would like to leave this with your students.
• 1:07:29
  If you pursue the assassination at all and it's aftermath, be sure you
• 1:07:33
  are willing to pay the full price for doing so. Wow, that is
• 1:07:41
  powerful. That's not a letter like a generic response to a classroom. Right,
• 1:07:47
  it's right. And there are allegations that you suffer from depression. And
• 1:07:54
  what you said, he said he suffered mentally write his own words, So
• 1:07:58
  I think there was. I mean, his wife had left him and they've
• 1:08:00
  been trying to kill him. He doesn't have money, can't doesn't have a
• 1:08:04
  job, he has to move back in with his dad. You know,
• 1:08:09
  he doesn't have custody of his kids. And it's just, you know,
• 1:08:14
  everything has gone to hell down there in Texas for poor Roger Craig. And
• 1:08:23
  it says five weeks after I guess he'd been corresponding with Edgar Tatrow. And
• 1:08:35
  it says enclosed as a copy of this Bruder film. Maybe you have one,
• 1:08:42
  please write me. It says five weeks after. This last letter was
• 1:08:45
  written. On May fifteenth, seventy five, at the age of thirty nine,
• 1:08:51
  Roger Craig allegedly shot himself in the chest. He left a note stating,
• 1:08:56
  I am tired of this pain. That's all it was written. Now,
• 1:09:01
  I will tell you in the book, his son describes the scene if
• 1:09:11
  you will. Okay, Yeah, they said they found Roger Craig on the
• 1:09:15
  floor. The rifle allegedly was a twenty two rifle. Okay. He shot
• 1:09:27
  himself supposedly in the chest from a downward angle. Okay, So the entrance
• 1:09:39
  to his chest was at a downward angle, so he would have had to
• 1:09:44
  been holding the rifle up here like this and went and then before he passed
• 1:09:49
  away on the floor, the rifle was laid on the bed. Well,
• 1:09:57
  he's on the floor. Wo. And he said that there was also marks
• 1:10:02
  around his wrists and his knees were all scraped up, bruised up. That
• 1:10:15
  is uh, that's crazy. It's almost no George moarnshields tri himself with a
• 1:10:27
  shotgun, right yeah. Yeah. And they said Roger Craig had a forty
• 1:10:31
  five on the nightstand, So why wouldn't you just grab that use that It's
• 1:10:36
  easy, are yeah. Yeah. And when you're sitting here with a twenty
• 1:10:40
  two, a twenty two rifle there, it's there's a lot to unpack here
• 1:10:50
  in the Roger craig story saga, unfortunate and misfortunes of him. It's you
• 1:11:00
  know, I've kind of been honestly going back and forth on it on some
• 1:11:05
  small aspects of it, right, And like I'm kind of in the middle
• 1:11:13
  where I'm not saying like everything he said was right, but not everything he
• 1:11:18
  said was wrong, you know, like I And then you have like the
• 1:11:24
  later statements made in the seventies, the manuscript coming out in nineteen ninety.
• 1:11:33
  I don't know. That's that's the thing, right, I mean, what
• 1:11:36
  do we know in this case other than Felipe Vidal being our collective man.
• 1:11:44
  Well, you know when it comes in the manuscript, of course, you
• 1:11:45
  know, he never wanted to publish it while he was alive. He says
• 1:11:49
  too, he was too scared to And he had a side piece of Gumar
• 1:11:58
  Guma, who I think in Kansas City or something maybe I can't remember who
• 1:12:03
  exactly where her name was, but she was helping to edit Roger Craig's manuscript
• 1:12:13
  and she she also said that she had his diary, and then she ends
• 1:12:19
  up dead after Roger Craig is killed and all that comes up missing. So
• 1:12:27
  how this guy Tom what did I say his name was Tom Davis, who
• 1:12:33
  was May Brussel's bookshipper if you will, and like, if you ordered a
• 1:12:42
  book from May Brussel, this guy took care of shipping it. But Dave
• 1:12:49
  Ratcliffe from radical dot Org said that he got a copy of this manuscript from
• 1:12:56
  this Tom guy in nineteen ninety and he put it on his website with hyperlinks
• 1:13:02
  and everything in nineteen ninety eight. Now, if you go on like Amazon,
• 1:13:11
  now look up Roger Craig's book, somebody is publishing it as as a
• 1:13:15
  book. I don't know if his family is doing that or I don't know
• 1:13:19
  who's doing it. It's definitely not Roger Craig doing it. But yeah,
• 1:13:24
  you imagine his estate is beneficial, benefiting in some way. Yeah, you
• 1:13:30
  would, you would hope. So it's not just some random dude, you
• 1:13:35
  know who. He's had to look to the publisher for that one. Yeah,
• 1:13:41
  it's hard to say, but yeah, I don't know. Man.
• 1:13:45
  You know, it's just another one of them things where the more you think
• 1:13:47
  about it, the worse off you are, because you know, you can
• 1:13:51
  start to feel one way about him and then and then you think, okay,
• 1:13:58
  but man, this guy is now he's destitute. Now, he doesn't
• 1:14:00
  have any money. Why is he saying this now? But because of all
• 1:14:08
  that, does that mean he's lying? Not necessarily? Not necessarily for sure?
• 1:14:15
  And I think you have to take everything into consideration. I think you
• 1:14:17
  laid it out very well there. And the Warren Commission changed his testimony from
• 1:14:24
  what he told them. Yes, and if that was an anomalous thing,
• 1:14:30
  then okay. But how many times have we heard that that the Warren Commission
• 1:14:35
  changed people's testimony? Girl on the stairs? Was it Vicky Adams or well,
• 1:14:42
  yeah, one of them, many many other ones, because a lot
• 1:14:45
  of them, you know, basically I didn't want to double check things.
• 1:14:51
  They would just say, I know, just go ahead and run it,
• 1:14:55
  you know, don't send to me. I would ask you if you wanted
• 1:14:58
  to sign your testimony, and not everyone signed it. Some people would be
• 1:15:03
  like, oh whatever, just get me out here. Yeah, you have
• 1:15:05
  to hang out here for another twenty minutes when we print this thing off,
• 1:15:10
  or if you just want to go now, that's fine too, And not
• 1:15:13
  that I think that if you stayed those extra twenty minutes that they would have
• 1:15:16
  have eventually not changed it. You know. Yeah, we just typed up.
• 1:15:23
  Maybe you can come back in a couple of days and sign it.
• 1:15:25
  Make sure everything laugh through that. Yeah, we're done. Yeah. I
• 1:15:29
  think mister Ball went you know me, mister Ball, Joseph Baul, I
• 1:15:35
  believe all. Yes, yeah, I think he went down t shirt coming.
• 1:15:47
  Oh hellow, there you go. I like Thatseph Baul. That's funny.
• 1:15:57
  I think he went down a Texas to talk to him and Whitesman and
• 1:16:01
  a few others. So I was looking at the list of when they were
• 1:16:06
  interviewed, and of course all the DTB DPD officers are back to back to
• 1:16:12
  back to back, which you know, I don't think is necessarily sucks,
• 1:16:15
  right, because they could have been in the same category. If you have
• 1:16:18
  officers on the sixth floor, right, whites Men, other people. They
• 1:16:23
  had him separated from Whitesman and the guy that was behind the rambler, somebody
• 1:16:29
  else was interviewing them, and then Craig is over here at the same time
• 1:16:32
  being interviewed by like Beelin or somebody. It's so uh fragmented and hard to
• 1:16:43
  decipher. It's uh, it's an enigma wrapped them, uh puzzle or whatever.
• 1:16:51
  Yeah, And there's you know, if you try to research into Roger
• 1:16:57
  Craig at all. You know, there's there's there's not a whole lot out
• 1:17:00
  there. There is something written by Dave Perry called The Ramblerman, who basically
• 1:17:06
  ships all over Roger Craig's story and everything that he ever said, you know,
• 1:17:12
  from the lone nut perspective, basically where he just discounts everything as,
• 1:17:16
  oh, he's a liar, you know, he's you know, he's paid
• 1:17:20
  by Mark Lane to say this, and you know whatever. And then there
• 1:17:27
  is another one I came across. It's called JFK Evidence Series number two,
• 1:17:32
  The Story of Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig by Mark Arnold put that up
• 1:17:45
  there. I guess skill weal, sir, And it is a very good
• 1:17:51
  article that kind of goes through and supports a lot of Roger craigs accusation and
• 1:18:00
  story from a you know, as much of a document thing as he can.
• 1:18:15
  Yeah, it's he gives us account of this again the Secret Service,
• 1:18:23
  the Secret Service man that he met and it was Smith right, No,
• 1:18:30
  no, after Craig. No. I think Roger Craig at some point said
• 1:18:33
  that he or had some type of run in with that officer Smith, which
• 1:18:39
  was the same guy who allegedly ran into the Secret Service agent on the because
• 1:18:45
  they had went up to the Norman about the same time. Yeah, they
• 1:18:47
  had some type of interaction. Yeah, but here's here's this this Joe.
• 1:18:54
  Okay. So Craig, thinking that the incident of the two men leaving Dealey
• 1:19:00
  in the station wagon was important enough to bring to the attention of his seniors,
• 1:19:06
  he ran toward a temporary command post that had been set up at the
• 1:19:10
  corner of Elm in Houston, in front of the Book Depository building. When
• 1:19:13
  he got there, he met a man who identified himself as Secret Service.
• 1:19:16
  Craig described as a man as being well dressed in a gray business suit,
• 1:19:21
  about forty years old, sandy hair, with a distinct cleft in his chin.
• 1:19:28
  He gave his information to the Secret serviceman and showed little interest in the
• 1:19:30
  men leaving Dealey Plaza, but a lot more interest in the description of the
• 1:19:34
  rambler station wagon. It was the only part of Craig's story that the Secret
• 1:19:39
  Service man wrote down later. It would trouble the young deputy sheriff, who
• 1:19:43
  was normally so thorough that in the hecticness of the moment, he didn't get
• 1:19:47
  the Secret Service man's name. According to the Secret Service, all agents that
• 1:19:51
  day traveled with the President's motorcade to Parkland Hospital, leaving Craig to wonder just
• 1:19:58
  who was this Secret Service man he met in front of the school book depository?
• 1:20:04
  So you know what, what in the sam hill is going on around
• 1:20:12
  here? Ow, it's it's really hard to to analyze it on like a
• 1:20:18
  document level. And to your point, Rob, and like I said,
• 1:20:24
  I've been going literally, Rob can he tested this on the messages that we've
• 1:20:29
  had. I've been going back and forth all week, right, Yeah,
• 1:20:35
  yeah, and uh, I mean Roger Craig touches so many aspects of the
• 1:20:42
  conspiracy oriented side of this story, everything from identifying Oswald, running out of
• 1:20:51
  the school book Depository and getting in Rambler to finding the shells on the sixth
• 1:20:58
  floor. He says, uh, when he found the shelves on the sixth
• 1:21:03
  floor, they were laying three in a row, three spent cartridges not more
• 1:21:09
  than an inch apart, all pointing in the same direction. Yep, okay,
• 1:21:14
  and that that later expanded to not more than two inches. I believe
• 1:21:18
  the distance from the yeah and their photographs supposedly in situ, right, and
• 1:21:25
  they're they're scattered all over the place, one in the crack and the other
• 1:21:28
  two were on the floor, like foot apart from each other, all going
• 1:21:31
  in different directions. I think it was alleged that Fritz picked him up,
• 1:21:35
  put him in his pocket, and then somebody said something about it and he
• 1:21:39
  just threw him back on the floor. Who knows what was going on there.
• 1:21:45
  It's so weird because like, who would say something to Fritz right,
• 1:21:50
  Like, well, the I D man, he's you know, I know,
• 1:21:55
  I'm a dumb ass. I haven't photographed him yet. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:22:02
  no, I totally agree. It's just funny that, like, you
• 1:22:05
  know, the number one or number two person in the number two I guess
• 1:22:11
  uh, you know, being the director of homicide had to be corrected.
• 1:22:15
  It's just it's like, like the BBB said, it's really hard to analyze,
• 1:22:24
  and it's kind of what I've been struggling with over the weeks. I
• 1:22:27
  keep going back and forth. I'm not gonna say struggling. You know,
• 1:22:29
  I've been aware of the Roger Craig and you know that the general details of
• 1:22:34
  a lot of his story, but doing the deeper document dive. It's really
• 1:22:41
  hard and uh, really interesting. Yeah, and so for Roger Craig,
• 1:22:48
  and I said this on other shows too, but you know, for Roger
• 1:22:54
  Craig to think in his mind is all this is happening. Okay, I'm
• 1:23:00
  gonna make up this fucking story where I saw the guy running out of the
• 1:23:04
  thing and try to be this. You know, Rock'm socker, cowboy deputy
• 1:23:11
  sheriff. He's going to solve everything and get his man and you know,
• 1:23:14
  get some kind of what fame or notoriety or another maybe another Office of the
• 1:23:17
  Year award out of the deal. You know, I don't think he needed
• 1:23:20
  to do that. No, he didn't need to do that, right,
• 1:23:27
  So I was just bringing up real quick this Fritz statement from May first,
• 1:23:31
  nineteen sixty four about Roger Craig. This is what you're talking about earlier.
• 1:23:36
  He goes, I don't remember this from the DPD Texas and Portal history all
• 1:23:43
  that. Bs uh And Fritz's statement, I don't remember the name Roger Craig.
• 1:23:49
  Stop it, because he had just testified to the Warrant Commission literally like
• 1:23:55
  within a day or two, and you're not aware of him. That's absurd,
• 1:24:01
  right, I'm sorry, but I do remember a man coming into my
• 1:24:06
  office, our office, and I remember one of my officers calling me outside
• 1:24:11
  the door of my private office. Right, that's always where Fritz said he
• 1:24:15
  goes. Oh, I didn't meet Roger Craig in my office. I might
• 1:24:18
  have stepped outside and met him in the hallway. Right. I talked to
• 1:24:24
  this man, right. I talked to this man for a minute or two,
• 1:24:29
  and he started telling me a story about seeing Oswald leaving the building.
• 1:24:32
  I don't remember all the things that this man said, but I turned him
• 1:24:35
  over to Lieutenant Baker, who talked to him. Lee Harvey Oswald was in
• 1:24:41
  my office at this time. I don't remember anything about Lee Harvey Oswald jumping
• 1:24:45
  up or making any remarks or jesters to this man. That's the leave missus
• 1:24:50
  peen alone comment. Yes, that's another part of the conspiracy story, folks.
• 1:24:58
  Let's get that, you know. I mean, that's pretty damn damning
• 1:25:03
  if you have Oswald saying that the rambler was missus pains. Leave her out
• 1:25:09
  of it? Okay? What that? You can't leave her out of it?
• 1:25:12
  What the hell's are called doing in Daily Plaiza Right after the assassination Okay,
• 1:25:16
  can I write that that's central? Yes? I agree? Can I
• 1:25:20
  play Devil's advocate? I? As I was analyzing this, I was starting
• 1:25:27
  to think, what if it wasn't that's missus pain leave me alone? Or
• 1:25:31
  if that was the comment? Was he referring to his family as a missus
• 1:25:36
  Payne was taking care of his family? Right? So I always wondered,
• 1:25:43
  like, was the leave missus pain alone? If that was what said,
• 1:25:47
  which of course I wasn't there. I don't know was that in a sense
• 1:25:51
  leave my family alone? They were talking about the station wagon. He said,
• 1:25:57
  I know that was that was miss pains leave her out of this?
• 1:26:00
  Right? But in all operational security, would you give up the name unsolicited?
• 1:26:06
  I don't think so. But that's just objective doubles here. Uh,
• 1:26:13
  that's why we do the show as well. I mean, if if they
• 1:26:15
  knew that, hey, this guy saw me get into this vehicle, you
• 1:26:20
  know, and he's a cop, he's eye witness. He saw me get
• 1:26:23
  into this vehicle, you might say, okay, well, hey that's hey,
• 1:26:27
  that's miss Payne's car. You leave her out of this very very possibly,
• 1:26:30
  very possibly. I'm just kind of bringing up to the but she definitely
• 1:26:32
  wasn't driving it, you know, not driving it. I think she was
• 1:26:36
  shopping at the time or something. She went every day. James brings up
• 1:26:43
  too, I forgot about this to mention this about the forty five slow by
• 1:26:49
  these supposed mystery FBI guys in Deialy Plaza. Right which one on the grounding?
• 1:26:58
  Yep, yeah, that's right here where they're looking. Supposedly there was
• 1:27:01
  a forty five slug found in the ground there that hit the top of the
• 1:27:05
  sewer grate there and went in the ground and the FBI guy put it in
• 1:27:10
  his pocket and it was never talked about anything again. But again, I
• 1:27:15
  don't know the significance of what of that. I mean, a forty five
• 1:27:19
  slug is from a handgun, not a rifle, So I don't know what
• 1:27:25
  importance it has to do with the assassination. I mean, I don't know
• 1:27:30
  where it could have come from. I don't know. I don't know either.
• 1:27:36
  You know, we do know that some of the I don't want to
• 1:27:41
  see some of the shots. But you know, there was AMMO at that
• 1:27:45
  time that you could make right by filling the bullets, would gunpowder things like
• 1:27:50
  Lauren Hall did right and made their own ammunition things like that. But yes,
• 1:27:57
  I agree. Well, the story of Harry Wetherford being on the roof
• 1:28:03
  of the Dallas County Office building with a thirty out six rifle comes from Roger
• 1:28:12
  Craig as well. He said he was talking to Weatherford right after it happened,
• 1:28:19
  and Weatherford admitted he was up on the roof of the thirty out six
• 1:28:23
  rifle and the Decker had sent him up there to watch over things. Yeah.
• 1:28:30
  I mean, so much of this stuff comes from from from Craig and
• 1:28:34
  what he said. It's like, wow, you know if even half this
• 1:28:40
  shit is true, you know, Yeah, I mean you gotta I mean
• 1:28:45
  I don't know it. Like you said, I go back and forth all
• 1:28:48
  the time. But again, you know, when you look at the credibility
• 1:28:54
  of this guy and and his his motivation, I mean, it wasn't like
• 1:28:59
  he was doing a ton of media. I mean, yeah he was.
• 1:29:01
  He didn't get rich. I mean right after the assassination, you didn't hear
• 1:29:05
  nothing from Roger Craig until he was fired unceremoniously by sixty seven, almost like
• 1:29:15
  three years, right from sixty four to sixty seven. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:29:18
  I mean, go immediately seeking fame and fortune and writing a book and reaching
• 1:29:21
  out to Mark Lane and you know whatever. So it's just I don't know,
• 1:29:31
  man, it's odd. It really is odd. And and like you
• 1:29:36
  said, I go back and forth and I'm just gonna agree with Dave here
• 1:29:40
  and I'm saying it's just amnesia in convenience in terms, but it's it is
• 1:29:49
  really difficult because you cannot discount his credibility. I mean you can't. And
• 1:29:57
  I'm not saying what he said it was true or not true or some good
• 1:30:00
  all of it whatever, but his previous achievements and whatever makes you take a
• 1:30:09
  second look at it as in some compared to some like eyeball witness that has
• 1:30:15
  no that wasn't a police officer, It wasn't police officer of the year.
• 1:30:18
  You have to take all these things into consideration when you're evaluating a story,
• 1:30:25
  a statement, a person, whatever. Yeah, because I think Roger Craig
• 1:30:32
  Junior tells the story because he was not born in Texas. So he said,
• 1:30:39
  the reason he wasn't born in Texas is because his mom, pregnant at
• 1:30:43
  the time in nineteen fifty five, had driven up to Oklahoma, where Roger
• 1:30:47
  Craig was stationed to see him, and she was nine months pregnant on the
• 1:30:54
  drive, and she ended up having him in Oklahoma. Right. So then
• 1:30:59
  when Roger Craig time to realize, he said, it was a very rough
• 1:31:04
  ride. The suspension on the car was bad. It was things you do
• 1:31:12
  for love, but so things. Eventually, of course, he you know,
• 1:31:15
  he got out of the military and he moved back to Texas and with
• 1:31:18
  his family and his newborn son. Like I said, his son was born
• 1:31:21
  in fifty five, and he went to work at a pure X plant,
• 1:31:26
  you know, making laundry detergent. Right, And he'd actually gone through all
• 1:31:30
  the testing and everything for the Sheriff's office trying to join up with him,
• 1:31:36
  and he was denied because he didn't weigh enough. Actually the first time he
• 1:31:44
  applied very skinny. And you could see that in the interviews. Granted that's
• 1:31:49
  you know what seventy one, but I mean even the pictures you showed,
• 1:31:57
  I mean he must be like one twenty uh wet. You know, he
• 1:32:01
  was six feet tall. So he was a beating hole, you know,
• 1:32:03
  Like, yes, bro, you know, if you're gonna like arrest somebody,
• 1:32:09
  you gotta be able to you know, just you're gonna snap like a
• 1:32:13
  twig, my dude. But anyway, I guess he went out and ate
• 1:32:16
  some doughnuts and uh fattening himself up a little bit and then come on,
• 1:32:24
  you know. And then Sheriff Decker liked him from the beginning. Like I
• 1:32:29
  said, he'd take his son into work and hang out with his son.
• 1:32:32
  You know, Craig would come and check on him to just make sure that
• 1:32:36
  he wasn't being a problem, and he said, you know, Decker would
• 1:32:40
  tell him go back to work. I got it, your boy's good.
• 1:32:44
  So just some wild stuff and some definite food for thought about mister Roger Craig,
• 1:32:49
  and you know, he he he had a good life until he didn't
• 1:32:54
  have a good life. And like most people that were tangentially affected by this
• 1:33:02
  unexpected momentous occasion in history, yeah, you know, you got to wonder
• 1:33:10
  how things would have been different if this did not happen that day in Dallas,
• 1:33:15
  Texas. Roger Craig's life would have been dramatically different. I believe had
• 1:33:21
  this not happened, you know, basically on on on his watch in Dallas,
• 1:33:31
  and it definitely changed the course of his life. And in the course
• 1:33:34
  of a lot of other people's lives who were there that day and kind of
• 1:33:41
  caught up in everything. And you know, this was like the specter that
• 1:33:44
  followed all these people, you know, Boone Weitzman. I think Boone ended
• 1:33:47
  up going crazy in a mental hospital. He had a he had a doctor's
• 1:33:51
  note, he didn't have to go to the HSCA to testify before them.
• 1:33:56
  They sent back a letter basically saying that mister Boone is not mentally stable enough
• 1:34:01
  to come to Washington answer your questions or be interviewed. Thank you have a
• 1:34:08
  great day, doctor whatever the hell, right, doctor of psychiatry. So
• 1:34:14
  Boone ends up in a mental institution, yes, like Ralph Yates and uh,
• 1:34:19
  you know shot and in an arrest attempt, right, yeah, the
• 1:34:29
  other one's shot, and then Craig is fired, and you know, basically
• 1:34:33
  from there they try to kill him a couple of times. He becomes you
• 1:34:39
  know, hurt, paranoid, can't work, persona grada. He's surrounded by
• 1:34:45
  the conspiracy sharks, Penn Jones, Mark Lane, you know, and uh,
• 1:34:49
  and you're probably taking advantage of him in some aspect right at that later
• 1:34:56
  date, talking right, Yeah, I mean that's just how it works,
• 1:35:00
  right, like you don't. You have to give them stuff to write.
• 1:35:05
  You can't just say what you said to the warm commision because that's not juicy
• 1:35:10
  enough. And I'm not insinuating anything. I'm just kind of bringing up both
• 1:35:14
  sides here, and I'm giving you guys food for thought. You guys are
• 1:35:17
  very uh you know, our followers know a lot about the JFKA and uh,
• 1:35:23
  you know, we trust you know, you look into it and then
• 1:35:27
  you have your own thoughts and uh, you know, we're not going to
• 1:35:30
  tell you what to think, but we don't know. You know, it's
• 1:35:34
  very very hard to analyze here. Yes, it's a mystery wrapped in an
• 1:35:41
  enigma inside of a riddle, right something like that. Yeah, I think
• 1:35:45
  that was I got one of the three earlier one ball. Yeah. Well,
• 1:35:57
  uh, I want to tell everyone to definitely listen to Quick Hits this
• 1:36:02
  weekend. It's going to be a banger, just sport on the street.
• 1:36:06
  I don't know anything. Maybe I do, but I can't say anything else.
• 1:36:12
  But it's not always a banger. Joe, what are you talking?
• 1:36:15
  I know, I know if you like this show, you're gonna love Quick
• 1:36:20
  Hits too. Yes, to make sure you check it out the same bat
• 1:36:26
  time, same bat ten. It'll be dropped this weekend at some point here
• 1:36:30
  and there and everywhere else. I cannot wait. You know, I have
• 1:36:35
  my alarm set for like when it comes out, so Joe knows when it
• 1:36:43
  drops before I do. Yeah, I send him an egg plant of MOSI
• 1:36:46
  hey, already listen to the show. It was really funny when this happened.
• 1:36:51
  I'm like, oh, come on, I don't get that. I
• 1:37:00
  think I've got text messages to say otherwise. But you know it's okay,
• 1:37:05
  man, Okay, Well we'll chalk it up. We'll chalk it up to
• 1:37:10
  the mystery box. The mystery box. But anyway, I would highly recommend
• 1:37:20
  folks, if you want to know more about Roger Craig stuff, go listen
• 1:37:25
  to the interview that I posted yesterday. Yes I believe so yeah, yes,
• 1:37:31
  sair Roger Craig interview. It's on this channel. Go check it out.
• 1:37:36
  This book, The Deputy Interviews by Steve Cameron, well put together by
• 1:37:43
  Steve Cameron. I guess he wrote a little bit of stuff in here and
• 1:37:46
  did most of the interviews. So yeah, that guy. Yep, it's
• 1:37:49
  definitely one of the more comprehensive studies of the subject of Roger Craig and from
• 1:37:56
  the people that actually knew him and were related to him. You know,
• 1:38:00
  it's cool to see the interviews with his son and his sister and people like
• 1:38:04
  that who actually were related to him and knew him, you know, and
• 1:38:09
  can give you information about the intimate crime scene, details about how you know,
• 1:38:15
  it's pretty odd. You know that the trajectory of the shot that killed
• 1:38:20
  him was coming at a downward angle. You know, you figure if you're
• 1:38:26
  gonna shoot yourself with a rifle, while like Kurt Cobain, you know that
• 1:38:30
  you're gonna hold it in front of you or something, you know, who
• 1:38:33
  knows, I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't seem like the most convenient
• 1:38:41
  position because if you're like trying it all, you don't care what pistol or
• 1:38:45
  position you use. You know, you're not thinking of trajectory or autopsy.
• 1:38:50
  And by the way, this is a theory of mine. There probably is
• 1:38:59
  the most percentage of informants in corners. I can't convince me otherwise. The
• 1:39:09
  highest percentage convinced of informants are corners as in like per job. Right,
• 1:39:15
  So say you have like policemen twenty like corners, coroners, corners, yes,
• 1:39:24
  uh, corners. You can't convince me that those people aren't like two
• 1:39:30
  out of three informants and you know putting the well, yeah, there's mean
• 1:39:38
  they can be manipulated. Of course, you know the cop make it takes
• 1:39:42
  a visit to him, says, look, we need to report to say
• 1:39:45
  this. Okay, you know, yeah like The Wire season five. Yeah,
• 1:39:51
  I mean it's uh, it happens. It really a fairy. He
• 1:39:56
  died from a brain hemorrhage. Okay, sure, the night before he's supposed
• 1:40:01
  to talk to Garrison. Yeah, sure he did. Okay, that's believable.
• 1:40:06
  Yeah, that is after he did a three hour interview with the newspaper
• 1:40:10
  reporter. Okay, that is on my top of the list for Sussmas song.
• 1:40:16
  But Nicholas Chetta that that's the corner in the New Orleans who And I
• 1:40:21
  think he ended up dying like a year after he did David Ferries autopsy.
• 1:40:29
  If I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure about that, but uh, possibly,
• 1:40:33
  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, that's for sure. As we saw
• 1:40:40
  through this episode, a lot of people met early demises. If you knew
• 1:40:44
  Roger Craig or were associated with Yeah, and so did he apparently. Uh
• 1:40:51
  so, Yeah, that's the unfortunate misfortunes of Roger Craig. And I think
• 1:41:00
  we covered everything, Joe, I think so anybody else in the chat got
• 1:41:03
  anything that she wants to hit on. I know, there's, like I
• 1:41:08
  said, there's a lot of stuff that Roger Craig has alleged over the years
• 1:41:14
  that is associated with them. But there's a lot of things that have been
• 1:41:17
  corroborated that Roger Craig has said over the years, and you know, it's
• 1:41:26
  hard to argue that we have, you know, a corroborating testimony about certain
• 1:41:31
  things, you know, including the Ramble. And I think it was Anna
• 1:41:35
  Marie Koons will Walko, she's a researcher back in the nineties, came across
• 1:41:42
  a photo and I found it at one time, and of course I looked
• 1:41:46
  for it for this episode because there's a picture in Dealey Plaza where she says
• 1:41:55
  it captures the Oswald figure running down the grassy knoll and getting in the Rambler.
• 1:42:02
  And I found it the photo in question, a couple of years ago,
• 1:42:08
  and of course I've lost it. Who knows changed phones two or three
• 1:42:11
  times since then. You know how that goes, you know, you lose
• 1:42:14
  media and this, that and the other. But that photo, I blew
• 1:42:23
  it up as much as I could. It's not definitive at all, not
• 1:42:29
  definitive of all. I mean it looks like a brown haired guy and a
• 1:42:32
  white T shirt, you know, I mean that's really all. You can't
• 1:42:39
  make out their face. You can't make out any characteristics because it's a long
• 1:42:44
  shot. You know, it's not an up close shot, so you're looking
• 1:42:47
  back at the depository kind of like you know, the Rambler picture that we
• 1:42:53
  showed here, but it was a little bit closer, and of course it
• 1:42:58
  showed this person running down, you know. And I could not find that
• 1:43:01
  photo for the life of me. I tried everything. I tried Google six
• 1:43:05
  ways from Sunday to try to find that picture, and I couldn't find it.
• 1:43:13
  So if anybody does find it, feel free to email it to us
• 1:43:17
  the Loneguming Podcast at gmail dot com, because I'd like to have it again.
• 1:43:23
  Maybe we can show it on the next show, just to uh to
• 1:43:29
  locals and post it there. I'm sorry, Tiny Dancer just said the F
• 1:43:34
  word on our show. Can you believe it? Oh wow, worse than
• 1:43:42
  me? Golly day t D What are you doing to us? No,
• 1:43:48
  yeah, it's like I said, I've seen it too. It's it's not
• 1:43:55
  definitive at all. Uh. You know, you can't I D in anybody.
• 1:44:01
  And of course there's speculation about if it wasn't Oswald, who was it?
• 1:44:05
  Who were these two guys the rolland saw up in the window with a
• 1:44:10
  rifle at about face and and you know the reports of people sticking the riofle
• 1:44:15
  off the window. Even you know people people really thought that, uh you
• 1:44:20
  know, this guy driving the rambler is Lawrence Howard, and that the guy
• 1:44:26
  running down the Knowele was William Seymour, and the guy shooting from the grass
• 1:44:32
  he knows Lauren Hall. And we can keep going on and on, folks.
• 1:44:40
  I mean those names hit my list for sure. Uh yeah. And
• 1:44:45
  then you got Roy Hargraves and Felipe Vidal, City Joe and Doug. So
• 1:44:50
  then it's like enter Penn Central, uh in Delley Plaza if that's what you
• 1:44:56
  want to believe. I mean Seymour, William Seymour is not in Oswald look
• 1:45:00
  alike, per se. I mean he probably resembles him at a glance,
• 1:45:05
  not not like, you know, almost a dead ringer like Michael Payne or
• 1:45:10
  anything like that, or Buell Fraser. But one other thing I wanted to
• 1:45:15
  touch on Joe is and I think I was talking to Michael about this.
• 1:45:23
  He asked me about touching on the difference between Oswald leaving the school book depository.
• 1:45:31
  All right. He got Bulle Fraser saying that he was standing on the
• 1:45:36
  front steps when he saw Oswald come down Houston Street and he lost him in
• 1:45:43
  the crowd as he went went turned onto Main Street. And then you have
• 1:45:51
  Roger Craig saying, no, I saw this guy coming down the other side
• 1:45:55
  of the school book depository and getting in this. Well, if one of
• 1:46:01
  them isn't Oswalt but it looks like Oswald, then both can be true.
• 1:46:08
  Technically, yeah, technically it's more than likely the guy that Fraser saw was
• 1:46:17
  the real Oswalt. I think he knew the guy he rode in the car
• 1:46:23
  with, the guy, the guy you worked with, the guy I mean,
• 1:46:28
  he would recognize the guy, you know, and all this other guy
• 1:46:31
  had to be the guy in the rambler was a fleeting resemblance a guy running
• 1:46:36
  down the hill and getting into a car, you're not going to get a
• 1:46:40
  very good look at him from that distance to be to make a definitive identification
• 1:46:46
  that, hey, this guy is definitely Oswald that I saw. It might
• 1:46:51
  have been a guy that looked like Oswald. You know, I like your
• 1:46:56
  idea of William Seymour because that would be one of those people that wouldn't really
• 1:47:02
  be in Oswalt. But if you're running and you get in a car,
• 1:47:05
  like if you don't like Roger Craig was never seen Oswald before, according to
• 1:47:12
  his statements, right, it's harder to well, yeah, and I'm not
• 1:47:17
  just pulling this guy's name out of thin air. You know, there's allegations
• 1:47:20
  in the Mexico City impostor. He's definitely wrapped up with Inner pin He was
• 1:47:27
  definitely traveling with Howard and Hall in Dallas in October sixty three. That got
• 1:47:35
  you on the list, you know, and he yeah, I mean,
• 1:47:44
  you know, you just yeah, you can't make this stuff up. Yeah,
• 1:47:47
  Inner pen Is. Yeah, look at the members of that you could
• 1:47:56
  really start kind of we concur yes. So yeah, we've got a lot
• 1:48:05
  of good comments. Thank you. South to the West, Thank you,
• 1:48:12
  Ashley would uh tin answer? I think you showed us I did yep.
• 1:48:23
  Actually the thunder from down Under. I think he was probably tore up again
• 1:48:28
  to night. It's Friday night actually Saturday morning for him, Saturday afternoon.
• 1:48:35
  What and where is Australia? He's from the future, old Ashley. I
• 1:48:45
  respect that. Thank you for tuning in. Yes, thank you folks for
• 1:48:49
  tuning in. It's been a heck of a show. I think we did
• 1:48:53
  as extensive as a deep dive on Roger Craig as anybody could have. Uh.
• 1:48:58
  Of course, you know, there's always so much more, So we
• 1:49:00
  encourage you to do your due diligence and don't just believe everything we say.
• 1:49:05
  Dive in, help us look check it out and make sure to tune in.
• 1:49:13
  Uh next week. I think we should be live again next week,
• 1:49:16
  Joe, I believe. Yes, we don't. We don't have any guess
• 1:49:19
  these lined up yet, but that is subject to change if we run into
• 1:49:26
  something that. You know, you just never know how things are gonna work
• 1:49:30
  out. But it's been real. Thank you folks for hanging in there with
• 1:49:34
  us and hanging out with us on another Friday night Live with the Little gum
• 1:49:39
  and podcast. Baby. Yeah, buddy, it's getting dark behind you,
• 1:49:45
  Bud. I know, yes, you know I'm not an AI at least
• 1:49:56
  or I have. Really, you got a sweet green spread behind you.
• 1:50:00
  Yeah, I have defense. Thank you guys, thank you everyone. It's
• 1:50:05
  been real and we will catch you on the flip side. Like I said,
• 1:50:10
  be looking out for quick hits this weekend too. It's coming and you
• 1:50:13
  don't won't want to miss it until then. Pete h m hm