Latest / Business Roundtable / The Second Profile Behind Every "Yes"

Transcript

The Second Profile Behind Every "Yes" · Business Roundtable

0:14
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast while we sit
0:17
Speaker 1: down with leaders who've built something real and put lessons
0:20
Speaker 1: out that actually transfer into business. I'm David Carr, Founder
0:24
Speaker 1: Steward your Business, your host, and I'm going to start
0:28
Speaker 1: here with you perhaps a sentence that might make you
0:30
Speaker 1: feel a little uncomfortable as a leader. There, Yes was
0:34
Speaker 1: a flight version of goodbye. That is how my guest
0:38
Speaker 1: describes a moment where most leaders miss, where someone agrees
0:42
Speaker 1: or nods and says that sounds great, but you actually
0:45
Speaker 1: never hear from them again. And not because they lied,
0:48
Speaker 1: but because they were never actually speaking. You weren't speaking
0:50
Speaker 1: their language. You guys were disconnected. And so I'm very
0:54
Speaker 1: excited to have Jake Saul on our podcast here, brand
0:56
Speaker 1: new guest. He spent over fifteen years inside this gap.
1:00
Speaker 1: He's trained over ten thousand sales professionals across dozens of states,
1:05
Speaker 1: six countries, influenced over one hundred million dollars in communative
1:09
Speaker 1: deal flow. And what I'm excited He's built a framework
1:11
Speaker 1: called neurostrategy. We're going to break down a bit today
1:14
Speaker 1: that goes past personality tests but really into the psychology,
1:18
Speaker 1: the wiring the person has across the table. And he's
1:22
Speaker 1: even wrote a book literally called Own the Room, How
1:24
Speaker 1: to Communicate, be seen and heard and respected. Well, we'll
1:27
Speaker 1: put that on show notes. Jake, Welcome to the podcast.
1:31
Speaker 2: Oh, David, thanks for having me. This is quite an honor.
1:34
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a blast. I really enjoy getting to know you.
1:37
Speaker 1: We've had a number of conversations, and your concept of
1:41
Speaker 1: neurostrategy was unique to me. I think it was a
1:44
Speaker 1: new and different take on it. And so before you
1:47
Speaker 1: got to neurostrategy, you know, you were you're in the
1:50
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry. You've been leading teams for you know, I
1:54
Speaker 1: think over sixty five million dollars in annual sales, you
1:56
Speaker 1: rand number one of the country. But what it all
1:59
Speaker 1: that teat you? That well intentioned you were working, but
2:02
Speaker 1: like like you said, but it didn't land, Like, hey,
2:05
Speaker 1: what did you You've spent of those years and it
2:07
Speaker 1: didn't land. So you obviously it spurred you to go
2:09
Speaker 1: to neurostrategy. So take us before neurostrategy, what were you
2:12
Speaker 1: seeing there?
2:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've been a sales trainer for God close
2:17
Speaker 2: to thirty years now, and I'll tell you what, David.
2:20
Speaker 2: The one thing I see is buyers, well not just buyers.
2:25
Speaker 2: All of us have what I call two profiles. We
2:28
Speaker 2: have the one profile that we show everybody. You know,
2:31
Speaker 2: I put the hat on that profile, the glasses on there,
2:34
Speaker 2: I'm polite, you know, this is the profile I put forward.
2:38
Speaker 2: But the truth is, David, we all have a second profile.
2:42
Speaker 2: And that second profile is the one that makes all
2:45
Speaker 2: the decisions. So it's the second profile that remembers past
2:49
Speaker 2: experiences that were just like this one. It's the one
2:51
Speaker 2: that responds to fear and pricing and gets all the anxiety.
2:57
Speaker 2: And you know how that person is. You know, hey,
3:00
Speaker 2: I want to buy a new car, and that's the
3:02
Speaker 2: outward facing I want to drive a new vehicle. But
3:04
Speaker 2: inside person, the second profile was going, dude, you can
3:07
Speaker 2: afford this, You can barely your mortgage, so what the
3:10
Speaker 2: hell are you doing? So my whole career has been
3:14
Speaker 2: around how do we identify the true decision maker, which
3:18
Speaker 2: is your second profile, and how do we talk to it?
3:23
Speaker 2: And that goes way beyond typical sales training because we're
3:26
Speaker 2: always taught talk to the person in front of you,
3:29
Speaker 2: and if your pitch is good enough, you'll sell. And
3:32
Speaker 2: I found David over thirty years. That's just not true.
3:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just that is fascinating and it's it. And
3:39
Speaker 1: I hope as every people are listening to this, because
3:41
Speaker 1: I'm just checking myself on that, Jake, and you know,
3:46
Speaker 1: recognizing there's these I'll call me even saboteurs or ways
3:49
Speaker 1: of thinking, like, hey, it's to your point, I want
3:51
Speaker 1: to want that car, but then there's all these other
3:53
Speaker 1: things that are going on the back of my head.
3:55
Speaker 1: And I didn't even realize what you said. I remember
3:58
Speaker 1: as you're saying that, I remember my wife saying, oh,
4:00
Speaker 1: we like great to have a second house or go
4:02
Speaker 1: those listens to your point, I would be like, oh,
4:05
Speaker 1: I can't, we can't like set afford that orr. I
4:07
Speaker 1: have all these things in my mind, and then I
4:08
Speaker 1: was like, I'm shutting these things down. They're not helping
4:10
Speaker 1: me but actually hurting me, you know, yep, right, And
4:15
Speaker 1: so you know this what made you so? Did you
4:20
Speaker 1: saw this this challenge? Because what made you though so
4:24
Speaker 1: you were in sales, you're helping folks make this adjustment,
4:27
Speaker 1: but what made it made you step away and really
4:29
Speaker 1: move toward what you're doing obviously today, like because you
4:33
Speaker 1: could have kept going and doing this, but you you
4:35
Speaker 1: pivoted here a little bit. I'm not a little bit,
4:37
Speaker 1: quite a bit, and you said, okay, hey, there's a
4:40
Speaker 1: bigger problem here. Walk me through your journey of like,
4:43
Speaker 1: because you were experiencing and you're saying okay, But you
4:45
Speaker 1: could have just stayed in that sales space. You could
4:47
Speaker 1: have just kept doing that, Jake, what made you want
4:49
Speaker 1: to pivot as a business owner, you know, and go
4:53
Speaker 1: in this other direction?
4:54
Speaker 2: There were two things. The first is, just like you
4:57
Speaker 2: and everybody else listening, we're all buyers. We're all buying
5:01
Speaker 2: things all the time or declining things all the time.
5:04
Speaker 2: And I think about the way I want to be treated.
5:07
Speaker 2: So when I think about that, I think, I want
5:10
Speaker 2: this person to really understand what my motivations are. I
5:13
Speaker 2: want them to really understand why I'm buying or not buying.
5:18
Speaker 2: And oddly enough, David, this all came from the question
5:20
Speaker 2: how are you hate that greeting? And the reason is
5:24
Speaker 2: it creates a pre conditioned response. Right, I say hi,
5:28
Speaker 2: how are you? And you go fine? Thanks? How are you?
5:31
Speaker 1: Yes?
5:31
Speaker 2: Yes, I talk to a member of my family and
5:33
Speaker 2: I say I love you. They say, oh, yeah, I
5:35
Speaker 2: love you too. If you go into a retail store
5:38
Speaker 2: and the clerk says, can I help you? Our response
5:40
Speaker 2: is no, thanks.
5:42
Speaker 1: Just looking yeah, right.
5:44
Speaker 2: So I found that preconditioned responses we're leading to pre
5:49
Speaker 2: conditioned conversations. So my whole goal was a how do
5:53
Speaker 2: I appeal to profile number two because I've got one
5:56
Speaker 2: and I wish somebody could read that. Ye, And number
5:59
Speaker 2: two is if you start me with a pre condition response,
6:05
Speaker 2: I'm going to continue to develop those pre condition responses
6:08
Speaker 2: because all my past is going to come flooding forward.
6:11
Speaker 2: I call them echoes. So my whole go was, how
6:15
Speaker 2: do we start genuine conversation and avoid those pre condition responses,
6:19
Speaker 2: and how do I talk to the decision maker? And
6:22
Speaker 2: what I found was when I started teaching this, it
6:26
Speaker 2: created almost like a referral machine because people were saying, Jake,
6:31
Speaker 2: we've never thought about it this way before. Do that
6:34
Speaker 2: for us too. So it really became a great referral
6:38
Speaker 2: process because I wasn't your typical sales trainer. I was
6:42
Speaker 2: now a sales psychologist, whatever you want to call it.
6:48
Speaker 2: And so I pursued that a little bit more. I
6:50
Speaker 2: got a degree in psychology, I have a master certification
6:53
Speaker 2: in neuro linguistic programming, and we all know Tony Robbins
6:58
Speaker 2: made that famous. And I always joked that I've read
7:02
Speaker 2: so many social psychology books. Somebody just owes me a degree,
7:06
Speaker 2: just hand it over. I've done the work. So I
7:10
Speaker 2: took all three of those behavioral psych social psych and NLP,
7:13
Speaker 2: and I created what I call neuro strategy, and it's
7:16
Speaker 2: teaching someone how to talk to that second profile.
7:20
Speaker 1: MM. That's so fascinating and I think, to your point, Jake,
7:26
Speaker 1: we need more of that in the world. That's why
7:28
Speaker 1: I'm having you on the podcast, because I can't tell
7:30
Speaker 1: you can't tell you how many either emails, direct messages
7:35
Speaker 1: I get that or to your point of better for
7:38
Speaker 1: this general generalized terrible right there, this general Could you
7:43
Speaker 1: use more clients today? I mean come on now, I
7:46
Speaker 1: mean really please, right, you know, I mean they're just there.
7:51
Speaker 1: And to your point, it's it's just selling. Who's in
7:55
Speaker 1: front of you. I've got something to sell. Let me
7:57
Speaker 1: just sell in front of you instead of like building
7:59
Speaker 1: the relationship and understanding where this person is coming from.
8:02
Speaker 1: And and why I love having you on here is
8:05
Speaker 1: because you understand, I mean, we are there are truths
8:10
Speaker 1: about our human condition, and there's different personalities, and I
8:14
Speaker 1: think personalities are good. I used the five voices. I
8:17
Speaker 1: know there's disc and I think these are all great things.
8:20
Speaker 1: But we have to go deeper in that. And I
8:22
Speaker 1: think that's where I really want to go a little
8:25
Speaker 1: unpack a little bit more about the neurostrategy, because I
8:29
Speaker 1: think people, you know, can really benefit from like you said,
8:34
Speaker 1: get to that. I like that how you said that
8:36
Speaker 1: second voice, there's that front end that and and I
8:40
Speaker 1: think sometime people are presenting that and some people, honestly,
8:44
Speaker 1: I was just talking about some folks about this last week, Jake,
8:47
Speaker 1: where they're presenting a certain first voice, like you said,
8:51
Speaker 1: and they don't even realize I think even themselves, they
8:53
Speaker 1: don't realize there's a second voice. Why they're right, that'd
8:57
Speaker 1: be true. Then we realize they haven't even identify that
9:00
Speaker 1: second voice in themselves, right.
9:02
Speaker 2: And you know, one of the ways that you can
9:05
Speaker 2: become most aware of this is when you did something
9:10
Speaker 2: or you said something to somebody and you go, oh
9:13
Speaker 2: my god, that was my dad talking, right, that's the
9:17
Speaker 2: inner voice. And I tell people you have a caption
9:19
Speaker 2: over your head, you're talking one thing but your caption's
9:22
Speaker 2: telling me something completely different, and it's our inability to
9:27
Speaker 2: recognize that that makes people like me a little bit
9:32
Speaker 2: more valuable, because you may be saying, Hey, I don't
9:36
Speaker 2: want to do this, but I can see you do.
9:39
Speaker 2: You just need a really good reason to do it.
9:43
Speaker 2: Or it could be the opposite. You could be saying, Hey, Jake,
9:45
Speaker 2: I really want to buy this, but I see a
9:46
Speaker 2: little light over your head that's saying got no interest,
9:49
Speaker 2: And as soon as we're off the phone, I'm ghosting you.
9:52
Speaker 1: M hm. So if this individual doesn't understand that they
9:56
Speaker 1: have a second voice, it's certainly gonna be harder to
9:59
Speaker 1: reach somebody else's second voice, right, It's like understanding, like
10:03
Speaker 1: where's this coming from?
10:05
Speaker 2: Yes? And no? So yes, it can be difficult to
10:09
Speaker 2: pull out somebody's voice if you're not listening for it.
10:12
Speaker 2: But my book Own the Room details how to do
10:16
Speaker 2: that through the framework I created. So how do you
10:18
Speaker 2: get to that inner profile? Yeah, and it gives a
10:23
Speaker 2: a a six step process for getting there, and it's
10:27
Speaker 2: really intuitive and easy to do. But it's mostly david
10:31
Speaker 2: about seeing things you never saw before. Like one of
10:35
Speaker 2: the first steps I have form my clients is do
10:37
Speaker 2: me a favor this week. Just notice whenever somebody looks
10:40
Speaker 2: away from the camera, it's all I want to do.
10:43
Speaker 2: Don't do anything else. And by the end of the
10:46
Speaker 2: week they're like, Jake, this happens all the time. I mean,
10:49
Speaker 2: they're always doing it. But now I've got you looking
10:53
Speaker 2: at a tell and now you practice it and you're
10:56
Speaker 2: never going to unsee it. Because keep in mind, David,
11:00
Speaker 2: eighty percent of our communication is nonverbal. And let's put
11:04
Speaker 2: that into context. Let's say David, your best friend, calls
11:08
Speaker 2: you today and he says, David, if you just follow
11:12
Speaker 2: these five steps, you'll be a millionaire by dinner. So
11:15
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, let me get a pen.
11:18
Speaker 2: I'm ready to go. Then the phone goes static for
11:22
Speaker 2: eight minutes. Can hear what they're saying? You know they're talking,
11:25
Speaker 2: but you can't hear it. Then all of a sudden
11:27
Speaker 2: he comes back on. He goes, David, good talking to you.
11:30
Speaker 2: Get this done. You'll be rich by dinner, and hangs up.
11:34
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
11:35
Speaker 2: So you're missing eighty percent of the message. But we
11:39
Speaker 2: do this every day as humans. We don't pay attention
11:42
Speaker 2: to what the body language is, so we're missing most
11:45
Speaker 2: of the message that's taking place. And the book Own
11:49
Speaker 2: the Room actually walks you through how to notice those
11:51
Speaker 2: things as well. So part of noticing that person's second
11:55
Speaker 2: profile is noticing what their body's telling you acquire a
12:00
Speaker 2: degree in body language, super simple. Just several things you
12:05
Speaker 2: can notice make all the difference in the world.
12:09
Speaker 1: What's interesting, Jake, you said that I was talking to
12:11
Speaker 1: somebody and I'm wondering, I want to get your thought
12:13
Speaker 1: on this, because I've noticed there are times I'm on
12:19
Speaker 1: doing video calls or meetings and people don't have their
12:23
Speaker 1: video on. It's like they don't want to be seen.
12:27
Speaker 1: They don't it's like they want to hide. And I
12:30
Speaker 1: was or or talk or talk about I was talking
12:34
Speaker 1: to another client that I had, and he was telling
12:36
Speaker 1: me how I'm working with this guy and we do
12:38
Speaker 1: deep work, like this work of five voices understanding ourselves,
12:40
Speaker 1: and he's like, the guy literally said, Jake, well, I
12:42
Speaker 1: don't do any of those assessments. I don't want people
12:45
Speaker 1: to know me. I mean, I was like, wow, So
12:48
Speaker 1: what is that speak a little bit to the fact
12:50
Speaker 1: of that self preservation or like what the wall that
12:53
Speaker 1: people are putting up there yeah.
12:56
Speaker 2: And the basic concept behind that, David, is a lot
12:59
Speaker 2: of what I teach is that every decision has a cost. So,
13:05
Speaker 2: for instance, with this gentleman, it was his decision to
13:10
Speaker 2: not be on camera was probably spurred by something that
13:13
Speaker 2: happened previously that gave away too much information and he
13:18
Speaker 2: felt exposed. So the cost of turning off his camera
13:23
Speaker 2: is minimal, it's free, it's a gimme. But the cost
13:27
Speaker 2: of turning on the camera is huge. It's bad memories,
13:30
Speaker 2: it's a bad prior experience. And I'm not saying that's
13:33
Speaker 2: what it is. I'm just throwing out.
13:34
Speaker 1: A possibility, yep.
13:36
Speaker 2: But everything has that cost. And I argue in one
13:40
Speaker 2: of my most recent podcasts that the cost of responding
13:44
Speaker 2: to somebody on an email or on a call is
13:46
Speaker 2: exactly why people get ghosted, and that's why the yes
13:51
Speaker 2: is often just a polite now mm wow.
13:55
Speaker 1: So so I want to go deeper with Nurstra agree,
14:01
Speaker 1: you know, where what is neurostrategy? How does this get?
14:05
Speaker 1: Like you you mentioned when we talked earlier about maybe
14:07
Speaker 1: a disc or Myers brig is kind of a high
14:09
Speaker 1: level you know, overview, But what is what if the
14:12
Speaker 1: neurostrategy kind of get at that those you know they're
14:15
Speaker 1: not bad, But what does it get at that those
14:17
Speaker 1: miss Jake?
14:18
Speaker 2: Yeahs, First of all, I don't not personality assessments. I
14:24
Speaker 2: think they're amazing and accurate and should absolutely be used
14:28
Speaker 2: as part of your prospecting. I think it's fantastic, love
14:31
Speaker 2: your five voices thing that should absolutely be used. What
14:35
Speaker 2: those don't tell you is the undercurrents or the captions
14:39
Speaker 2: over their head. So I may know that their highly
14:43
Speaker 2: relationship driven, and they're excitable, and they respond best to
14:49
Speaker 2: people who talk in stories. That's great, but it doesn't
14:55
Speaker 2: tell you what story they'd prefer to hear. It doesn't
14:59
Speaker 2: tell you why that person prefers the story. And that's
15:03
Speaker 2: part of sales, right, is if I'm going to change
15:06
Speaker 2: your mind, I need to know why you make decisions
15:10
Speaker 2: and how you make them. The overall personality tests tell
15:15
Speaker 2: you the personality, but they don't tell you what spurs
15:18
Speaker 2: that personality underneath. Neurostrategy is what helps uncover that piece. Yeah.
15:25
Speaker 1: So when you're getting the neurostrategy, and particularly when you're
15:29
Speaker 1: talking about sales, Jake, it's like, what is driving their
15:32
Speaker 1: decisions and I've heard, I mean, and I was. I
15:36
Speaker 1: had another woman on my podcast, Terracey Holland recently, and
15:38
Speaker 1: we just we're talking about how she helps business owners
15:42
Speaker 1: talk about getting bitter at clarifying the pain of the problem.
15:46
Speaker 1: But to your point, right, what is that for that
15:49
Speaker 1: second voice? Because sometimes we talked too high and it
15:52
Speaker 1: doesn't resonate. It's like, eh, it doesn't hit me the
15:56
Speaker 1: right way. Yeah, And so we're there's this mismatch of
15:59
Speaker 1: what we're communicating. Talk a little bit about what do
16:02
Speaker 1: you see where leaders are sales earl theres is this
16:05
Speaker 1: mismatch a little earlier, but really where they're like getting
16:08
Speaker 1: this wrong, where they're like communicating and it's not being received.
16:13
Speaker 1: You know, what are the sort of situation other situations
16:16
Speaker 1: you may have seen in her Where have you worked
16:17
Speaker 1: with clients, even Jake, where it's like they were doing
16:20
Speaker 1: that and like, let's use the example of this this
16:23
Speaker 1: gentleman even maybe where he was turning off his camera,
16:26
Speaker 1: but we could turn that around where he's like turning
16:28
Speaker 1: on his camera, he's like, oh, I'm leaning in, Oh
16:31
Speaker 1: I actually want to be known. You walk us through
16:35
Speaker 1: kind of the mismatch and maybe where we've actually been
16:37
Speaker 1: had successful breaking through that.
16:39
Speaker 2: Sure. So let me give you a real life scenario.
16:42
Speaker 2: I was on with a prospect about six months ago,
16:45
Speaker 2: wonderful woman, super nice, and we got on the phone
16:49
Speaker 2: and we both had our cameras on, and I noticed
16:52
Speaker 2: her glasses matched her earrings. It's almost like they came
16:56
Speaker 2: from the same factory.
16:58
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
16:58
Speaker 2: So I said to her, Wow, that combo is fantastic.
17:03
Speaker 2: How did you do that? Did you order that together?
17:07
Speaker 2: Immediately her hand went to her wedding ring. She started
17:10
Speaker 2: to twirl it, started to pull it off, put it
17:12
Speaker 2: back on. There's my caption, compliments are not good. And
17:19
Speaker 2: there's a million reasons she could have been twirling her
17:21
Speaker 2: wedding ring. She could have been reminding herself she's married.
17:25
Speaker 2: She could have been telling me, hey, I'm married, don't
17:27
Speaker 2: compliment the way I look. Could have been a million things.
17:30
Speaker 2: But most people would overlook that nervous twitch. They just
17:34
Speaker 2: do that when they're uncomfortable. But I took that and
17:38
Speaker 2: redirected to another topic completely so we could get back
17:41
Speaker 2: to business. As soon as I redirecting got back to business,
17:46
Speaker 2: wedding ring fidgeting stopped. Her hands were on the table.
17:49
Speaker 2: She was interested and locked in. But as leaders, we
17:53
Speaker 2: don't tend to do that. We tend to go in
17:55
Speaker 2: and think, if I can motivate them, if I can
17:58
Speaker 2: get them excited, if I can really get just some
18:01
Speaker 2: gung ho attitude, it's gonna work. Motivation is different than intention,
18:09
Speaker 2: so the group could leave motivated, but their intention could
18:13
Speaker 2: remain the same or even drop down a notch. And
18:19
Speaker 2: part of it is just getting a feel for the group.
18:22
Speaker 2: Don't talk at them, talk with them, and if you
18:25
Speaker 2: have the choice, don't talk at all for the first
18:28
Speaker 2: ten or fifteen minutes and let them air what they're
18:31
Speaker 2: thinking so you can build on it. Like one of
18:35
Speaker 2: my rules of thumb went I'm with the prospect is
18:38
Speaker 2: I make sure they talk for the first ten or
18:40
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. If they try to direct it to me,
18:44
Speaker 2: I redirected back to them because I want them to
18:47
Speaker 2: know I'm listening, I'm paying attention. It's giving me an
18:51
Speaker 2: idea of what their caption is and what their second
18:53
Speaker 2: profile looks like. But more importantly, David, it makes them
18:58
Speaker 2: feel good. You've actually proven chemically that when you talk
19:03
Speaker 2: about yourself and what you do, it's chemically equivalent to
19:06
Speaker 2: eating a chocolate cupcake. Yeah, you get the same neurotransmitters,
19:11
Speaker 2: you get the same endorphin rush. So if I can
19:15
Speaker 2: get them feeling good about the conversation and they trust me,
19:18
Speaker 2: they're going to reveal more.
19:20
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hmm.
19:22
Speaker 2: That most leaders and salespeople are like, let me get
19:26
Speaker 2: out what I have to say, and as you're talking,
19:28
Speaker 2: I'm just going to be thinking about what I'm going
19:30
Speaker 2: to say.
19:30
Speaker 1: Next, right, But it's an and flow that's so powerful.
19:36
Speaker 1: What the word that comes to mind is you say
19:37
Speaker 1: that Jake is be curious. Yeah, for sure, and really
19:45
Speaker 1: listen for what is like you said meaningful to them,
19:47
Speaker 1: and you brought up some of these things that we
19:49
Speaker 1: can look at body language as well.
19:51
Speaker 2: Yep.
19:52
Speaker 1: And I think like to your point, leaders particularly, maybe
19:56
Speaker 1: some personality types are a little bit more driven that
19:59
Speaker 1: they can kind of road folks and undermine their influence
20:02
Speaker 1: instead of if they would just like you said, slow
20:04
Speaker 1: it down a little bit and and listen. And it's
20:07
Speaker 1: hard sometimes so's folks are a little bit more driven
20:09
Speaker 1: in that way. Others are better naturally listeners. But I
20:12
Speaker 1: understanding that when to when to hit the pump the
20:17
Speaker 1: brakes and when to put the gas on there. Once
20:21
Speaker 1: you once people start applying this, I mean, how long
20:26
Speaker 1: do you usually see jake to where it actually starts
20:28
Speaker 1: like they're like, oh my goodness, they starting to, like
20:30
Speaker 1: you said, you start noticing things. Is it pretty quick
20:33
Speaker 1: where they start to see oh, I didn't even notice
20:35
Speaker 1: that blind spot or you.
20:36
Speaker 2: Know, on the person. If they're excited about learning it
20:40
Speaker 2: and really dig into the homework, they're gonna they're gonna
20:44
Speaker 2: see a noticeable change within a month to six weeks.
20:49
Speaker 2: Absolutely huge change for people who aren't as dedicated to
20:54
Speaker 2: making it work.
20:55
Speaker 1: Yep.
20:56
Speaker 2: I've had clients that have gone six to eight months
20:59
Speaker 2: just because they continue to push back and continue to
21:02
Speaker 2: fight the issue. But let me just throw another example
21:08
Speaker 2: for you. I had a prospect I was introduced to
21:12
Speaker 2: and I got on the phone with her and I
21:14
Speaker 2: did let her talk, and out of thirty minutes, she
21:18
Speaker 2: talked for about twenty nine and a half of it.
21:22
Speaker 2: So I got off the phone and my wife goes
21:23
Speaker 2: how to go and I said, I didn't even get
21:27
Speaker 2: to pitch my wares. I said, so I don't anticipate
21:30
Speaker 2: a callback, which is okay, But I think she just
21:33
Speaker 2: needed somebody to listen. So I had written her off.
21:37
Speaker 2: Forty five minutes later, my email pinged and it said
21:41
Speaker 2: from the customer, It said, don't think it was lost
21:43
Speaker 2: on me that all you did was listen. When can
21:46
Speaker 2: we get started? So it's not always going to happen
21:52
Speaker 2: that way, but the power of silence and just listening
21:55
Speaker 2: often has a much larger impact than.
21:58
Speaker 1: We think it will. Yeah, and to your point, that
22:05
Speaker 1: is awesome that you've created that space for number one,
22:07
Speaker 1: but for the folks, and I want folks to hopefully
22:10
Speaker 1: hopefully that I know the people that are listening to
22:12
Speaker 1: this probably are the ones that are actually going to
22:14
Speaker 1: be coachable and want to listen to this, but you know,
22:16
Speaker 1: want to go and actually do this work, Jake. But
22:18
Speaker 1: maybe they have somebody on their team or maybe something
22:21
Speaker 1: else that is being resistant this, and I probably find
22:23
Speaker 1: this is what would you say to those folks that
22:26
Speaker 1: you're They're like, they really want to have their team succeed,
22:29
Speaker 1: They're trying to lead by example, but there's resistance there,
22:32
Speaker 1: and what would you encourage it. Maybe there's some language
22:35
Speaker 1: or some things there. I think that to help them
22:37
Speaker 1: unlock themselves, because I feel like what you said earlier, Jake,
22:40
Speaker 1: about this resistance, it's my words is a self preservation one.
22:46
Speaker 1: And it's like it's it's I'm going to lose this,
22:49
Speaker 1: you said earlier. I'm going to lose this. If I
22:51
Speaker 1: put my camera on, I'm gonna there's a bigger loss.
22:54
Speaker 1: There's a but how have you been able to turn
22:57
Speaker 1: it around saying no, yes, it could be however we
22:59
Speaker 1: can flip it rad It can actually be an amazing gain,
23:02
Speaker 1: actually way more than you're losing. Yeah, you know that's
23:06
Speaker 1: my mindset anyways, where I'm coming from and trying to
23:08
Speaker 1: help unlock people where they are going to see the
23:10
Speaker 1: gain of the opportunity versus the loss. Can you talk
23:16
Speaker 1: to us speak to that a little bit?
23:17
Speaker 2: Sure? So. A lot of times when I get leaders
23:21
Speaker 2: that are a little resistant to try this or to
23:23
Speaker 2: learn it, I alert them to one thing and we
23:26
Speaker 2: talk about it a lot. Is that when people make
23:30
Speaker 2: a decision, it's rarely based on what you talked about.
23:36
Speaker 2: What it is based on is their chance for reward
23:40
Speaker 2: and the cost to them internally. So let me give
23:43
Speaker 2: you an example. We all know that we go through
23:48
Speaker 2: stress and anxiety. There is one camp that says, hey, listen,
23:52
Speaker 2: just take a benzodiazepine, take an out event, take a zenx,
23:57
Speaker 2: take something to calm me down. Then there's another group
23:59
Speaker 2: that says meditation is the answer. So there's a cost
24:04
Speaker 2: to each of those, right, there is a cost of
24:06
Speaker 2: taking a drug, side effects price, and there's a cost
24:10
Speaker 2: of meditation. If you're not great at sitting down and
24:12
Speaker 2: shutting up, that's not going to be great for you.
24:15
Speaker 2: But it's not about the fact that I want to
24:18
Speaker 2: do I want to get less anxious. That's a given.
24:22
Speaker 2: But many.
24:25
Speaker 1: How about there keep going?
24:26
Speaker 2: But many salespeople say, oh my god, they're resisting me.
24:30
Speaker 1: Yes, they're not.
24:32
Speaker 2: And as a leader, we say they pushed back on
24:34
Speaker 2: the all meeting. They didn't what the back on was,
24:38
Speaker 2: what was the cost to them? And if they've ever
24:41
Speaker 2: experienced this before, they're bringing up memories of how that went.
24:47
Speaker 2: So if you say, as a leader, hey listen, I
24:49
Speaker 2: have an open door policy and you walk away feeling great,
24:53
Speaker 2: you could have somebody in the audience going, yeah, the
24:54
Speaker 2: last guy that said that he can they came in
24:58
Speaker 2: and complained. It's the flashbatcher, the echoes of past decisions,
25:04
Speaker 2: and it's job to figure out what those echoes are
25:10
Speaker 2: because they're making the decision. And that's the second profile.
25:14
Speaker 1: That is so powerful. It's so funny you said that, Jake.
25:17
Speaker 1: We did an episode a while back, and I'll put
25:18
Speaker 1: a link in the green to that point and open
25:20
Speaker 1: the door policy. It's not a bad thing, but it
25:23
Speaker 1: may or may not get you the desire results to
25:25
Speaker 1: your very point we talked about on that podcast. But
25:28
Speaker 1: they're limiting themselves. They're like, I ain't going in there
25:31
Speaker 1: because of previous experience. So then the leaders like, why
25:35
Speaker 1: why isn't this working? You know? Well, like you said,
25:38
Speaker 1: that's the other voice you. I want to one of
25:43
Speaker 1: the things as we're talking about these challenges overcoming, because
25:46
Speaker 1: you've overcome a lot, Jake, You've gone through a lot,
25:48
Speaker 1: and we have business owners, aspiring business owners, leaders that
25:51
Speaker 1: are wanting to step out and I always you know,
25:54
Speaker 1: I don't always do this, but I think it's important
25:56
Speaker 1: because I think you have such a unique perspective Jake,
25:59
Speaker 1: that you ups and downs and as we all do, right,
26:04
Speaker 1: but I think you've created something very meaningful beneficial here
26:07
Speaker 1: in the world, this neurostrategy. In a ways, and by
26:11
Speaker 1: the way you guys, you can connect with Jake. We're
26:12
Speaker 1: connected on LinkedIn and I'll put it all in the
26:14
Speaker 1: show notes and if you have comments, put him in
26:16
Speaker 1: the show notes. But speak a little bit about, oh,
26:19
Speaker 1: you this is really seeing. I think we get the
26:22
Speaker 1: big picture of like on LinkedIn and the hey we won,
26:25
Speaker 1: how we did it well, But talk a little bit
26:27
Speaker 1: about Jake, you know, how did it cost for you
26:30
Speaker 1: and your own journey? Right, Because I think this is
26:33
Speaker 1: important for our listeners because sometimes they think, oh, it
26:37
Speaker 1: should be so easy or we should just figure it out,
26:39
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, no it's not. And anything worthwild,
26:42
Speaker 1: and I think this is worthwhild you guys. That's why
26:44
Speaker 1: I have Jake on the podcast and he's distilled this
26:46
Speaker 1: down for you. But talk a little bit about your
26:49
Speaker 1: own journey and how it keeps you keep going because
26:51
Speaker 1: you have this compelling vision I call it compelling vision
26:53
Speaker 1: to go and continue to help people day after day
26:56
Speaker 1: and get out there, Jake, but share a little bit
26:58
Speaker 1: about with our audience about your own journey as a
27:00
Speaker 1: founder in creature.
27:02
Speaker 2: So I went to work at eleven years old. I
27:05
Speaker 2: worked at my dad's pharmacy and started to learn business
27:08
Speaker 2: from the ground up, and I went through several sales
27:11
Speaker 2: spots and at one point David I was speaking regularly
27:14
Speaker 2: all over the country. I was requested in several countries
27:18
Speaker 2: to do training sessions. It was great. Then I hit
27:22
Speaker 2: my third knee surgery, and at my third knee surgery,
27:26
Speaker 2: I got hooked on opioids and went into a two
27:28
Speaker 2: year spiral. Lost my marriage, house, savings, lost it all, everything.
27:35
Speaker 2: And when I came out of it, and when I
27:38
Speaker 2: went through rehab, I saw something that really startled me.
27:43
Speaker 2: And that's that. At that time, when I went through that,
27:47
Speaker 2: opioid addiction was looked at as you're bad, you should
27:50
Speaker 2: live under a bridge, don't talk to our kids. Now
27:54
Speaker 2: it's much more accepted. But anyway, what I noticed was
27:58
Speaker 2: that on the cover of People meg magazine, if a
28:00
Speaker 2: star revealed they were an addict, it was, oh my god,
28:04
Speaker 2: poor them. I wonder how I can help. But when
28:07
Speaker 2: they saw me as an addict, they're like, stay away
28:09
Speaker 2: from our family. You're not coming to work for me.
28:12
Speaker 1: Get away.
28:13
Speaker 2: And I thought, what is the dichotomy and why does
28:16
Speaker 2: it work like that? And it hit me It's not
28:19
Speaker 2: about the person, it's about their presence. And these were
28:24
Speaker 2: all stars, so they already had a presence, They already
28:27
Speaker 2: had a place in that person's heart or mind. I
28:31
Speaker 2: didn't have that. So my own the Room was created,
28:36
Speaker 2: and I tell this brief story in the front of
28:38
Speaker 2: the book. Own the Room was created to get back
28:40
Speaker 2: into rooms I was no longer allowed into. And a
28:45
Speaker 2: lot of that was just changing my presence, changing how
28:49
Speaker 2: I came across, because what I found was if I
28:51
Speaker 2: tried to explain my addiction, people just doubled down on
28:56
Speaker 2: why they didn't want to talk to me. So there
28:59
Speaker 2: had to be a yeah. And you know, it was
29:03
Speaker 2: a lot of trial and error. But what I found
29:06
Speaker 2: was if I changed the way I show up and
29:09
Speaker 2: I listened to what their body is saying as much
29:11
Speaker 2: as their mouth, it changed everything. And now I'm remarried,
29:17
Speaker 2: I live in a beautiful home, my business is remarkably successful.
29:22
Speaker 2: I wrote a book, I've got a podcast. I mean,
29:26
Speaker 2: it was a long road back. Don't don't think it
29:29
Speaker 2: was easy. It was a long road back. But matter
29:32
Speaker 2: what problem are going through as a business owner, somebody's
29:35
Speaker 2: going through another problem that was equal to, or less than,
29:40
Speaker 2: or more than yours. How much do you want it.
29:44
Speaker 2: How much do you want to come back and how
29:46
Speaker 2: much do you want to get done yet in your life?
29:50
Speaker 2: And I just had a lot to do. I just
29:52
Speaker 2: no longer had anybody to do it with.
29:55
Speaker 1: Ah Man, Jake, Well, you're doing it now, and I
29:59
Speaker 1: think you're to your point. You know, we all there's
30:04
Speaker 1: different challenges, and I, like you said, you're why I
30:07
Speaker 1: created the podcast was like one of the business owners
30:09
Speaker 1: and leaders to know they're not alone, they have somebody
30:12
Speaker 1: else that has gone through this where there's always somebody,
30:15
Speaker 1: like I say, to the right of us and to
30:16
Speaker 1: the left of us. And then if there's somebody here
30:18
Speaker 1: you're struggling in this area, here's somebody Jake that can
30:21
Speaker 1: walk you through and and really better be better. I
30:24
Speaker 1: like how I used to just said a Jake, be
30:26
Speaker 1: really present and in a way and carry yourself in
30:29
Speaker 1: a way to people like pause and they're like, oh
30:32
Speaker 1: wait a minute, who's this guy and how is he? Wow,
30:35
Speaker 1: he's approaching things differently than I normally see and and
30:39
Speaker 1: I think it's more than you know, just sales. But
30:42
Speaker 1: it's really like you said, being seen, heard and respected, Harriet.
30:46
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, this is how do we do that
30:49
Speaker 1: better in our world because I what I you know,
30:52
Speaker 1: where I see this, Jake, and I want your input
30:54
Speaker 1: on it, is like you know where leaders are are
30:57
Speaker 1: missing that mark? They think in my world and a
31:00
Speaker 1: lot of folks are engineers, scientists, they are very technically savvy, awesome, fantastic,
31:05
Speaker 1: that's great, that gets you in the room, that gets
31:07
Speaker 1: kind of like check that box. But they they fall
31:10
Speaker 1: apart to your point in the presence meaning having that presence,
31:14
Speaker 1: and they are missing it. You know, they're not reading
31:17
Speaker 1: the room well if you will, and they're just assuming
31:21
Speaker 1: because I have this, I've been able to check this
31:24
Speaker 1: box or I've got this degree or whatever. It's like
31:27
Speaker 1: that's enough, and I don't you know, unfortunately, and it's
31:29
Speaker 1: not enough. Of my opinion, you speak to a little
31:32
Speaker 1: bit about that where leaders are missing that mark of
31:34
Speaker 1: being that being that present person.
31:37
Speaker 2: I think one of the things David, I've seen over
31:39
Speaker 2: coaching over the years, and I just did a podcast
31:42
Speaker 2: on this, is that there's when people buy what you
31:47
Speaker 2: have as a leader as a salesperson, they're not buying
31:51
Speaker 2: what you have, They're buying who they are with what
31:55
Speaker 2: you have so familiar, they're not buying your motivation or
32:00
Speaker 2: you're thirty years of experience. What they're buying is their
32:04
Speaker 2: future with you at the helm, and those are two
32:08
Speaker 2: very different things. So a lot of times when we're
32:12
Speaker 2: trying to coach somebody or we're trying to send them
32:14
Speaker 2: an email, we have to realize that we're not talking
32:17
Speaker 2: to that person. We're appealing to a side of them
32:21
Speaker 2: we can't hear or see. Let me give you a
32:25
Speaker 2: great example. Many people get ghosted after their call with somebody.
32:31
Speaker 2: The person goes yes, yes, oh my god, this is
32:33
Speaker 2: a great idea follow up on me, send me an email.
32:36
Speaker 2: That's it, right, it's done. But you're not emailing the
32:41
Speaker 2: same person you just talked to. That person was enthusiastic.
32:47
Speaker 2: That person was excited. That person was ready to go.
32:50
Speaker 2: The person you're emailing is now cold. They're not that
32:54
Speaker 2: excited person anymore. They're now a person that has time
32:58
Speaker 2: away from you, and the cost to respond to you
33:03
Speaker 2: is much different than it was when you were live. Right,
33:09
Speaker 2: So saying yes when you're live is considered polite. It's
33:12
Speaker 2: just a way to say no and get you off
33:15
Speaker 2: the call. But when you say yes in an email,
33:20
Speaker 2: now it's a firm commitment, and that has a higher
33:24
Speaker 2: cost than just ghosting. You M right. So we have
33:30
Speaker 2: to consider at all times who we're talking to, and
33:33
Speaker 2: it can be different hour to hour, day to day.
33:39
Speaker 2: And that's I think whereas leaders, we kind of sometimes
33:43
Speaker 2: missed the boat. So I was talking to a group
33:46
Speaker 2: where we just had a great sales year. That's one
33:50
Speaker 2: group of people. If you had a difficult sales year,
33:54
Speaker 2: you're not talking that same group of people again, You're
33:56
Speaker 2: not talking to a completely different mindset. Leaders, we can
34:01
Speaker 2: tune into that, read that caption over their head. Yes,
34:05
Speaker 2: our effectiveness increases exponentially.
34:09
Speaker 1: Yes. And this is where I want to have you
34:11
Speaker 1: on the podcast, Jake, because you have tools and resources
34:14
Speaker 1: and we will send folks your way if you want
34:16
Speaker 1: to do deeper work on this. And Jake showing that
34:19
Speaker 1: this to me and some of the things, it's great.
34:21
Speaker 1: It's a fantastic tools and resources of what you can
34:23
Speaker 1: do because Jake, like you said, that can be overwhelming.
34:25
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, how do I do this? How do
34:27
Speaker 1: I have to think about?
34:28
Speaker 2: Right?
34:29
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, because that is complex and we have
34:34
Speaker 1: a lot of different types of people and people think
34:36
Speaker 1: about different things it's not one and the same, even
34:38
Speaker 1: if you're you know, and so you're saying that, Jake,
34:41
Speaker 1: I'm thinking out, I'm thinking to myself, you know, as
34:43
Speaker 1: a leader. It's like you're right in the presence of that,
34:46
Speaker 1: And then how do I follow up with them in
34:48
Speaker 1: a very thoughtful way? Yeah, And I was even backing
34:51
Speaker 1: up even further, Jake, to your point of like, when
34:53
Speaker 1: I'm reaching out to people, And here's the thing I
34:57
Speaker 1: found too, Jake, of like people are are also very
35:01
Speaker 1: polite in that they will maybe they take an initial
35:04
Speaker 1: call with you or something like that, which that's great,
35:07
Speaker 1: But am I being thoughtful as to the how to
35:11
Speaker 1: make the most of that time with them? You know? Again,
35:13
Speaker 1: similar to that caption, right before they come into the call,
35:16
Speaker 1: have asked them, been curious enough? Have I said enough questions?
35:20
Speaker 1: And and and I'll say qualifying from a sales perspective,
35:23
Speaker 1: but in a good way of like I want to
35:25
Speaker 1: be a service. I want to make sure when they
35:27
Speaker 1: come into this conversation, they come into the room. Like
35:29
Speaker 1: you're saying that, hopefully it's not just a yes, it's
35:31
Speaker 1: not polite because we've already kind of in a good
35:33
Speaker 1: way of understanding where they're coming from. Right, We've set
35:36
Speaker 1: the stage where they're like, let's just let's just lay
35:38
Speaker 1: that down so we can get to the root of
35:41
Speaker 1: it and make the most of our time together, right,
35:43
Speaker 1: because our time is finite, So what can we do
35:46
Speaker 1: so we're not spending this time of this dance if
35:49
Speaker 1: you will, right, only to be like both both parties
35:52
Speaker 1: are like, well, what was that for? What do we
35:53
Speaker 1: get out of that?
35:55
Speaker 2: Yeah? And David, you know, I marvel at salespeople and
35:59
Speaker 2: leads who don't prep for a conversation. Like as a leader,
36:03
Speaker 2: you'll say, David, will you come to my office? We
36:06
Speaker 2: should have a talk? Yeah, and I just wing it.
36:08
Speaker 2: As a leader, you're missing the boat with that. You
36:12
Speaker 2: should prep where's David's mind today? What's the goal of
36:16
Speaker 2: this conversation? What's the way to get there at the
36:19
Speaker 2: lowest cost? For David? And the same thing with the
36:22
Speaker 2: discovery call. I can't tell you how many salespeople I say,
36:25
Speaker 2: how'd you prep for this discovery call? It was just
36:29
Speaker 2: one of my meetings that I just went in And
36:32
Speaker 2: then you know what, your close rate is going to
36:34
Speaker 2: stay at an easily ten to twenty percent because that's
36:37
Speaker 2: how you're preparing for your customers.
36:39
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, h yeah, exactly, Jake. I know we're getting
36:44
Speaker 1: into the end of the podcast here, and I would
36:46
Speaker 1: love to go deeper, but we're getting We're getting there.
36:49
Speaker 1: You've brought up so many great points today, and I
36:52
Speaker 1: think hopefully people's minds are starting to turn a little
36:54
Speaker 1: bit more of like, oh man, I haven't thought about
36:57
Speaker 1: this way. I haven't approached it this way. Of course,
37:00
Speaker 1: we're going to make sure your book own the room
37:02
Speaker 1: is on our show or our comments links and and
37:05
Speaker 1: and the websites. But if I'm a business owner or
37:08
Speaker 1: a leader and I want to have more meaningful conversations
37:11
Speaker 1: and connections with people, you know, or maybe I miss
37:15
Speaker 1: something in our conversation today and that you're like, hey, David,
37:18
Speaker 1: this if nothing else, if the listeners leaning in here today,
37:22
Speaker 1: what would you encourage them to start doing today that
37:24
Speaker 1: they could take away apply in their life, Jake, what
37:28
Speaker 1: we've talked about.
37:32
Speaker 2: So you're looking for a kind of a one liner
37:34
Speaker 2: as to do.
37:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you I mean, start right, well, is
37:39
Speaker 1: there something that they could do? Like I liked how
37:41
Speaker 1: you said earlier, Like that one thing you just said
37:44
Speaker 1: of like looking. If you're talking to somebody and they're
37:45
Speaker 1: looking away at the camera, that's just an indicator like, hey,
37:48
Speaker 1: they're disengaging. But for for that business owner, that that
37:52
Speaker 1: person is really just again not having that. Like you said,
37:55
Speaker 1: they're not having the effect that they want. You know, Jake,
38:00
Speaker 1: what would you encourage to do for themselves, like to
38:02
Speaker 1: look or reflect or assassin themselves?
38:05
Speaker 2: My big encouragement is to read up on things like
38:10
Speaker 2: social psychology, which really documents how ninety percent of the
38:15
Speaker 2: population thinks. You know. Some great authors are Shieldini or
38:22
Speaker 2: Joonah Berger. You can read their books that are amazing
38:26
Speaker 2: and they're wonderful. You can also listen to podcasts. My
38:30
Speaker 2: podcast talks all about this all the time in the
38:33
Speaker 2: room with Jake Stall, So listen and read on how
38:38
Speaker 2: to get better because I can tell you communication nobody
38:41
Speaker 2: masters it. The best we can hope for is that
38:44
Speaker 2: we were a little better than we were yesterday. So
38:48
Speaker 2: it's a process. But instead of looking up that cat
38:51
Speaker 2: video or watching the hockey recat from last night, take
38:56
Speaker 2: some time listen to podcasts to people that offer what
38:59
Speaker 2: you need and listen to them because that's going to
39:03
Speaker 2: be your biggest bang for your buck is just.
39:05
Speaker 1: Continue to learn. Yeah, and we're gonna put this. We're
39:09
Speaker 1: gonna put the podcast, Jake, you're part of your podcast.
39:11
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come on your podcast as well, which would
39:13
Speaker 1: be a lot of fun, it will. I think you're
39:16
Speaker 1: right be a lifelong learner, being willing to spend a
39:19
Speaker 1: little time. And it's it's it's it's hard. We've got
39:21
Speaker 1: a lot of distractions, a lot of things in our world.
39:23
Speaker 1: But I think your point, Jake, you know, spending that
39:26
Speaker 1: time investing yourself is go only in to pay dividends.
39:29
Speaker 1: And I've seen that first hand. And I'm so grateful
39:32
Speaker 1: that you came on the podcast today and really shared
39:35
Speaker 1: your insights with our listeners.
39:37
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. And you know what one other
39:40
Speaker 2: thing is, we often think we're a product of our successes.
39:44
Speaker 2: I would like people to think about you're really You're
39:47
Speaker 2: really a product of your mistakes. Your mistakes are what
39:51
Speaker 2: has gotten you here, and what you learn from the
39:55
Speaker 2: mistakes is what's created your successes. So when you make
39:59
Speaker 2: a mistake or you're wrong, don't ever look at it
40:01
Speaker 2: as God, I'm not good enough, or I should never
40:04
Speaker 2: be a leader. The fact that you think like that
40:07
Speaker 2: is exactly why you're good enough and should be a leader.
40:11
Speaker 2: So take your mistakes, use them as a learning curve,
40:14
Speaker 2: and forgive yourself at night, because you know what, you're
40:17
Speaker 2: never going to have that perfect day. So at night,
40:20
Speaker 2: just take a few minutes and say, you know what
40:23
Speaker 2: you'd done good today. Tomorrow will try to do better,
40:26
Speaker 2: and just forgive yourself before you go to bed.
40:28
Speaker 1: It's very cleansing, beautiful, beautiful. Jake and I can't agree more.
40:36
Speaker 1: I likening me. Those are just part of our journey,
40:40
Speaker 1: right and and that's not that's not where we're ending
40:44
Speaker 1: the story. We're continuing on. And if you want to
40:47
Speaker 1: continue on with Jake and go check out orchestrate, you know,
40:50
Speaker 1: we'll put that in the show notes. We'd love to
40:52
Speaker 1: have you, guys, connect with Jake and and follow up there.
40:56
Speaker 1: We want you to be owning the room, being that
40:58
Speaker 1: person that is present, respected and understood, and you're understanding them.
41:04
Speaker 1: Of course, we love you guys when you like and
41:06
Speaker 1: subscribe and following that always is meaningful here at the
41:08
Speaker 1: Business Around Table podcast. Reach out to me as you
41:11
Speaker 1: your business. If you have a question you want to
41:12
Speaker 1: go deeper in your leadership team and development with what
41:15
Speaker 1: we're doing with Jake and I would love to have
41:17
Speaker 1: you guys follow along there as well. Thank you Jake
41:19
Speaker 1: for being here, mister having me everybody come back and
41:23
Speaker 1: be well. Thanks so much,